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COVID COVID-19: Corona virus discussion (ROUND 6)

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grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Yes
PLEASE...Please stick with the forum rules against Politics...it is always a problem. Do not post links to other sites that offer criticism or opinion of any Country or national leader. The forum is not the place for political discussion or argument.

Please do not offer medical advice or pass on unsubstantiated rumors or unofficial sources.

It is okay to discuss what’s happening with you here. People are a bit scared and some here are alone. Maybe we can share and comfort one another.

Rudeness or attacks on others will simply be deleted without comment
 
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C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
I would like to add that I don't think we need people to provide updates on the COVID news around the world, and links to articles, interesting though they may be. We all have very extensive (limitless!) access to many news sources, statistics, and information about policies everywhere!

As @grayland said, it is fine to discuss what's happening with you. Please keep the other observations and analyses off the forum. Many expressed opinions are very interesting and valid, but it becomes very difficult to maintain this forum as a camino-centered group that is generally free of disagreement on the controversial topics of life in general. Controversies on footwear, routes, camino behaviour, etc., are welcome as long as they stay polite and follow the rules.

Members are free to start discussions via Private Conversation (aka PMs) to discuss any other topics among smaller groups. If someone invites you to join a conversation that you don't want, there is the option to "leave" the conversation.
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
Our Gov (UK) are led by scientists and are thinking of the future, as are all other countries ... we shall not have a global vaccine until next year some time, if ever, so what they are looking at now is an accurate test that will show if a person has antibodies, therefore proving that they have had the virus and if they do, issuing some form of certificate that one can keep on one's smartphone. (Such a test has today been approved and our government has ordered 50 million of them).

Now, this would allow free movement but on two conditions - and the virus is so new the scientists don't know the answers yet.
1. Do the antibodies, proof of having had the virus, provide immunity from catching it again?
and
2. Can someone with antibodies ever infect another person or is that person now "safe" to move freely?.

If those 2 points are positively answered we could have a safe way of allowing free movement of people, even around the world - and in that scenario we could see the Camino open again (possibly).

Is this possible solution being discussed in your country?
 

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
The virus is effecting people from all different angles.
I live on the Camino Frances, and do staffing at a donativo albergue on the Primitivo, in Asturias. Yesterday I sent out the letter to our volunteer hospitaleros, telling them that 2020 looks like a wash, that we release them from any commitment they have to Albergue Villa de Grado. International volunteers are especially effected, as the borders will likely remain closed through September. None of them can get here to serve!
It was a very hard thing to do. I feel like the doctor, telling the family after a surgery goes badly. The return notes I got from the volunteers were heartbreaking! Some people are angry, some sad, some trying to argue... it's like a death for many of them.
Sixty percent of our volunteers are non-Spanish. The ones who are Spanish, or live in Spain, there IS a remote chance we will open sometime in the summer or fall, but in a much reduced capacity. We will need them then. But as for now? No one can say.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Our Gov (UK) are led by scientists and are thinking of the future, as are all other countries ... we shall not have a global vaccine until next year some time, if ever, so what they are looking at now is an accurate test that will show if a person has antibodies, therefore proving that they have had the virus and if they do, issuing some form of certificate that one can keep on one's smartphone. (Such a test has today been approved and our government has ordered 50 million of them).

Now, this would allow free movement but on two conditions - and the virus is so new the scientists don't know the answers yet.
1. Do the antibodies, proof of having had the virus, provide immunity from catching it again?
and
2. Can someone with antibodies ever infect another person or is that person now "safe" to move freely?.

If those 2 points are positively answered we could have a safe way of allowing free movement of people, even around the world - and in that scenario we could see the Camino open again (possibly).

Is this possible solution being discussed in your country?
Just a general observation about using testing as a conditional requirement for domestic or international travel. . . .

An antibody test can have a rate of false positives . . falsely indicating a person has no infection. It takes time to develop antibodies after an infection has occurred. Someone can be infected for as long as 14 days, and still have an antibody result that reads as a 'negative'.

A person who is not infected with COVID-19, can take the antibody test, and then become infected from COVID-19 at any time after taking that test. That means that the test result will be 'Negative', but the person would, in fact, be infected with the virus.

PCR testing can eliminate the issues of false positives that are a potential for antibody testing. However, the issue still remains that COVID-19 infection can still happen at any time post-testing. The increased lead time needed for a PCR test, versus that for an antibody test, means that there is even less dependability for a Document of Immunity to be used as 'proof' that a traveler is not infected with COVID-19.

Antibodies will be detectable, in many viral infections long after a person has been ill with the disease, and recovered. Antibodies are an indication of infection, whether symptomatic or not, both past or present. This means that using antibody testing for documentation to travel, will require someone, who has recovered from COVID-19, to somehow 'prove' that the antibodies in their test are not because the are now ill. Additional testing for a large percentage of the population who had an infection at some time in the past, will incur more time and expense.

With the limited number of testing laboratories available, the issue of using diagnostic facilities for elective travel documentation-certifications, which are also needed for patient care, means more burden on those laboratories.

All viral illnesses humans get, will have a percentage of those who, having recovered, will still become infected and ill again. It would be unique if COVID-19 acted differently in this regard. The challenge is to describe whether COVID-19 will impart a long-term or short term passive immunity. Also, will COVID-19 eventually act like an Influenza virus which mutates into different strains, which can each cause new infections and illness, and thus requiring an annual vaccination?
 
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Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
Just a general observation about using testing as a conditional requirement for domestic or international travel. . . .
@davebugg
Thank you very much for this. I have been longing for some basic information about various aspects of a viral pandemic. Much of what I have heard or read offers conclusions or possibilities/probabilities without any explanation. I find that frustrating and I understand no more after hearing it than before. You are a good teacher.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 03,04
88 Temples16
Port. 17
LePuy, Norte, Prim 18
Ingles 18
Jakobova, Arles, Aragon,Baztan 19
The virus is effecting people from all different angles.
I live on the Camino Frances, and do staffing at a donativo albergue on the Primitivo, in Asturias. Yesterday I sent out the letter to our volunteer hospitaleros, telling them that 2020 looks like a wash, that we release them from any commitment they have to Albergue Villa de Grado. International volunteers are especially effected, as the borders will likely remain closed through September. None of them can get here to serve!
It was a very hard thing to do. I feel like the doctor, telling the family after a surgery goes badly. The return notes I got from the volunteers were heartbreaking! Some people are angry, some sad, some trying to argue... it's like a death for many of them.
Sixty percent of our volunteers are non-Spanish. The ones who are Spanish, or live in Spain, there IS a remote chance we will open sometime in the summer or fall, but in a much reduced capacity. We will need them then. But as for now? No one can say.

thanks for the information, this is fascinating to observe. I am sorry you had to go through this, and that people in fact made it more difficult on you, i actually like the analogy to the doctor.

thanks for people one of our camino angels....
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
Our Gov (UK) are led by scientists and are thinking of the future, as are all other countries ... we shall not have a global vaccine until next year some time, if ever, so what they are looking at now is an accurate test that will show if a person has antibodies, therefore proving that they have had the virus and if they do, issuing some form of certificate that one can keep on one's smartphone. (Such a test has today been approved and our government has ordered 50 million of them).

Now, this would allow free movement but on two conditions - and the virus is so new the scientists don't know the answers yet.
1. Do the antibodies, proof of having had the virus, provide immunity from catching it again?
and
2. Can someone with antibodies ever infect another person or is that person now "safe" to move freely?.

If those 2 points are positively answered we could have a safe way of allowing free movement of people, even around the world - and in that scenario we could see the Camino open again (possibly).

Is this possible solution being discussed in your country?
WHO is saying don’t issue ‘immunity passports’, as we just don’t know if immunity exists yet:

 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
WHO is saying don’t issue ‘immunity passports’, as we just don’t know if immunity exists yet:

Exactly so - they don't have the science yet, As I said - Dave Buggs post is clear and informative - mine was that they were tentatively working towards it, depending upon the 2 problems the scientists need to answer first.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
I was just listening to an interesting podcast about issues surrounding the Coronavirus, and the host said something very important - If the sources that you are reading/watching/listening to never say "we don't know yet", then you need to find other sources, because no one knows everything there is to know about this virus.
 

jblaskovits

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances and Finisterre 2015
Chemin d'Arles and Camino Aragonés 2018
Camino Portugués 2019
The virus is effecting people from all different angles.
I live on the Camino Frances, and do staffing at a donativo albergue on the Primitivo, in Asturias. Yesterday I sent out the letter to our volunteer hospitaleros, telling them that 2020 looks like a wash, that we release them from any commitment they have to Albergue Villa de Grado. International volunteers are especially effected, as the borders will likely remain closed through September. None of them can get here to serve!
It was a very hard thing to do. I feel like the doctor, telling the family after a surgery goes badly. The return notes I got from the volunteers were heartbreaking! Some people are angry, some sad, some trying to argue... it's like a death for many of them.
Sixty percent of our volunteers are non-Spanish. The ones who are Spanish, or live in Spain, there IS a remote chance we will open sometime in the summer or fall, but in a much reduced capacity. We will need them then. But as for now? No one can say.
I have had to cancel - no, postpone - my scheduled volunteer time on the Chemin d'Arles. I should be there right now in fact. It was a huge disappointment but I will continue with my attempts to learn more French, I will pray for those living in the monastery in Sarrance where I was to serve and I will be ready to go as soon as I am allowed to travel! It is a small disappointment when compared to the grief of people who have had deaths in their families. Thank you for all the work you do Rebekah. I have wondered how you and your husband have been doing. I hope to meet you one day.
 

Lirsy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo, Norte, Francés, Volunteer Hospitalero.
This is official news, but it is provisional (dates may change) and not fully detailed (details will be provided by the government later).

The government has just released a plan for the reopening of the country after the coronavid. The dates will vary from one province to another, therefore, the specific date for a Camino (let´s say Camino Frances) may be different from the date of another Camino (let´s say Camino Primitivo) that crosses other provinces.

Simplifying a lot the instructions givn by the goverment, the Camino should be reopen in early July.

As I mentioned, the date may change depending on the behavior of the infection. Also as mentioned, the information is not yet complete. What will the regulation of the shelters be like? ... All these things will be published by the government later.
 

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Yes
This is official news, but it is provisional (dates may change) and not fully detailed (details will be provided by the government later).

The government has just released a plan for the reopening of the country after the coronavid. The dates will vary from one province to another, therefore, the specific date for a Camino (let´s say Camino Frances) may be different from the date of another Camino (let´s say Camino Primitivo) that crosses other provinces.

Simplifying a lot the instructions givn by the goverment, the Camino should be reopen in early July.

As I mentioned, the date may change depending on the behavior of the infection. Also as mentioned, the information is not yet complete. What will the regulation of the shelters be like? ... All these things will be published by the government later.
Thank you for passing this along.

Can you supply a link to an official announcement?
We are trying to link this kind of announcement with official sites in order to minimize rumors and misinformation.
 

NadineK

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2014)
Norte/Primitivo (2015)
San Salvador (2016)
Le Puy-Cahors (2017)
Aragonés (2019)
I have had to cancel - no, postpone - my scheduled volunteer time on the Chemin d'Arles. I should be there right now in fact. It was a huge disappointment but I will continue with my attempts to learn more French, I will pray for those living in the monastery in Sarrance where I was to serve and I will be ready to go as soon as I am allowed to travel! It is a small disappointment when compared to the grief of people who have had deaths in their families. Thank you for all the work you do Rebekah. I have wondered how you and your husband have been doing. I hope to meet you one day.
I stayed in the Monastery in Sarrance last June, it was one of the first nights of my Camino (the last few stages of the Chemin d'Arles, then continuing on the Camino Aragones). What a special, special place! And what a wonderful opportunity to volunteer there. And yes, postponed, not canceled! It's how I have to reframe so many of the losses that are happening right now. It's all just postponed, and wow, what an opportunity to practice grace and patience. Be well, and Buen Camino.
 

Lirsy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo, Norte, Francés, Volunteer Hospitalero.
Can you supply a link to an official announcement?
We are trying to link this kind of announcement with official sites in order to minimize rumors and misinformation.

Not exactly because the news was given by the prime minister in a television speech, but I can give you the link to the two most important newspapers "El País" and "El Mundo". For El País I can give you the English version (you can check the Spanish version at www.elpais.com), for El Mundo only the Spanish one.



As you can see, he didn´t say anything about international borders. So far I assume that the opening of the borders will be at the end f the process, this meaning the end of June ... Anyhow the news still lacks detaills.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
France announced some de-escalation measures yesterday, but as they are somewhat confusing, I'll summarise the bottom line.

The full lockdown will end from May 11th onwards ; and people will be able to venture up to 100K from home without a certificate or justification.

BUT they will not be able to leave the Département where they reside, except for special justified reasons ; and a degree of lockdown has been extended 'til June 2nd ; and if there are any spikes in new infections, stricter lockdown measures could be reintroduced, albeit perhaps locally.

Still, on a personal level, it means I will be able to get some walking in next month, locally, prolly just my training hikes on the Camino/Francigena ... :cool:
 

LTfit

Veteran Member
Not exactly because the news was given by the prime minister in a television speech, but I can give you the link to the two most important newspapers "El País" and "El Mundo". For El País I can give you the English version (you can check the Spanish version at www.elpais.com), for El Mundo only the Spanish one.



As you can see, he didn´t say anything about international borders. So far I assume that the opening of the borders will be at the end f the process, this meaning the end of June ... Anyhow the news still lacks detaills.
I would be very careful with your assumptions regarding the opening of borders. Best case scenario is that we in Spain will be able to move freely - if and only if the deescalation measures do not backfire- but that does not mean that the borders will be open.

Within Spanish provinces themselves there is a tremendous difference in cases. In Ivar's post regarding Sánchez's announcement that is now closed for commenting, I have linked to a La Vanguardia article showing this.

Note: Andalucía, Asturias, Baleares, Canarias, Ceuta, Melilla y Murcia will enter phase 1 first with <30 cases per 100,000 inhabitants. Castilla y León, Madrid, Catalunya and Castilla La Mancha are at the bottom of the list with 168-178 cases per 100,000 inhabitants.
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
This from an article in The Guardian:
Spain has ruled out any early reopening of its tourism sector and Germany is set to extend a travel warning for all leisure trips outside the country until mid-June, casting further doubt on when would-be holidaymakers will be able to venture abroad again.
[...]
Arancha González Laya, Spain’s foreign minister, on Wednesday said visitors would be welcomed back to the country – which has suffered Europe’s highest Covid-19 death toll after Italy – only when it is safe for them to come.

“Spain always gives its visitors the warmest possible welcome and wants to do so under the best possible safety conditions,” she said. “That is why Spain will gradually open to tourism when it’s in a position to guarantee tourists’ safety.”
Here is the link:
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
There has been a truly massive daily decrease of over 3,000 in the number of active cases in Italy -- from a day-to-day increase of about +4,700 in the number of recoveries !!

That's still over 100,000 active cases, but it's the most positive sign I've seen so far.
 
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MikeyC

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF - September 2016
CF - April May 2017
Shikoku - October 2017
Kumano Kodo - October 2017
CF - 2019
England's Chief Medical Officer gives a Gresham lecture on the current state of play of the coronavirus. As of 2 days ago.

 

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Yes
A reminder of the original post in this thread. Thanks for keeping it within the boundaries established


PLEASE...Please stick with the forum rules against Politics...it is always a problem. Do not post links to other sites that offer criticism or opinion of any Country or national leader. The forum is not the place for political discussion or argument.

Please do not offer medical advice or pass on unsubstantiated rumors or unofficial sources.

It is okay to discuss what’s happening with you here. People are a bit scared and some here are alone. Maybe we can share and comfort one another.

Rudeness or attacks on others will simply be deleted without comment
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details

Sources from the Spanish Health Ministry on Saturday provided more details about the deescalation of coronavirus confinement measures, explaining that during Phase 1, which will begin on May 11 in provinces that meet the set requirements, up to 10 people will be able to meet either in the open air or in their homes, provided that they maintain an interpersonal distance of two meters. They will also be required to respect hygiene measures such as handwashing.

[...]

Here is a summary of what is known so far about the four phases:

Phase 0. This will involve the opening of “small chinks” of economic activity. Citizens will be able to book appointments at establishments where individual attention is possible, such as at the hairdressers or to collect food to take away from a restaurant.

Phase 1. This will begin on May 11 for provinces that meet the requirements, and will allow for social activities such as meetings in the home or on the street for up to 10 people. Sidewalk cafés can also reopen, albeit at 50% of their usual capacity. The government had proposed 30% but representatives from the sector complained given the effect this would have on their revenues. Hotels and tourist accommodation can also reopen for guests living in the same province, but common areas will be shut. Places of worship will reopen, while activity will also restart in the food and fishing sectors. Open-air markets will be limited to 25% of their usual capacity, while religious celebrations will be limited to 30%.

Phase 2. This will begin on May 25 in the provinces that meet the requirements, and will see restaurants return to serving at tables inside their establishments once more, albeit with limited capacity. Journeys to second residences will be allowed, provided they are in the same province. Cinemas and theaters will reopen with a third of their capacity. Cultural activities will be permitted with fewer than 50 people seated, while open-air events will be able to hold fewer than 400 people seated. Schools will reopen to offer support to parents of children aged under six who cannot work from home, as well as for those students preparing their university entrance exams.

Phase 3. This will begin on June 8 in areas that meet the requisites, and will see a reduction of capacity restrictions in hostelry, but the public will have to remain separated. Restrictions on mobility in general will be relaxed, and retail outlets will be able to allow customers to enter up to 50% of usual capacity. Nightclubs and bars will be able to open with a maximum of a third of their usual capacity. Citizens will be able to go to beaches provided they observe safety and distancing conditions.

______________________________________________________________________________________

So it looks like June 8th will be the first big date to look out for, provided there is no increase in infections to push all these dates back, although this plan says nothing about any reopening of the International borders ; though possibly people resident in Galicia might technically be able to go on a solo and socially distant Camino starting May 11th ????? (handle this suggestion with care)

According to the Spanish Postal Services information site on the pandemic - https://www.elcaminoconcorreos.com/en/blog/camino-de-santiago-and-covid-19 , July is the month currently earmarked for some degree of normality to return on the Camino.

I guess we will have to take a careful look at what the Cathedral and Pilgrim Office will say on the matter.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
The number of recovered in Italy is now over 3x the number of deceased.

It is also larger than the number of current positive cases.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
"Of the 24 patients, we had one positive result for Covid-19 on 27 December when he was in hospital with us," he said, adding that the test had been repeated several times to confirm the result.
This quote makes it sound like the patient was tested for Covid on 27 December, which I believe would not have been possible because I don't think that France had a Covid test at the time, but I did some further reading, and a sample taken from the patient in December was tested for Covid-19 more recently.
Dr Yves Cohen said a swab taken at the time was recently tested, and came back positive for Covid-19.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
The internal borders of the EU will remain closed for non-professional travel 'til 15th June at least, it has emerged from a French Government Press Conference.
 

Galloglaigh

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Lycra tribe.
CF (2017/8), VF (2018/9), CP (rebooked) (2020)
Is the Via Tourensis from Orleans possible? Couldn't work out which Departments were being opened up first.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
The internal borders of the EU will remain closed for non-professional travel 'til 15th June at least, it has emerged from a French Government Press Conference.
I think you meant to say that the borders between France and her neighbouring countries remain closed for non-professional travel until 15 June at least.

What happens at all the other internal EU borders in the next two or three weeks is anyone's guess, some of these internal EU borders were never closed. The EU Commissioner in question wants to see an EU wide coordinated approach, the EU countries themselves have their own ideas about this and individual countries may well pursue a different approach in coordination with their neighbour country/countries. Or on their own. And note, that in general, the closures and border controls concern incoming traffic, not outgoing traffic.

Some time ago, I was surprised for example when a friend reported that there had been no border controls on the train when travelling from Brussels to Berlin. Turns out that the Belgian/German border had never been closed, at least not from the German side.

And there is currently no official information about the state of the external Schengen borders/external EU borders. Closed until 15 May for now and then? That may remain a major hurdle for the majority of forum members, I presume.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
In any case, my main point was that there are are not many uniform rules as far as Schengen/EU is concerned. For every country, or even just a region within a country, you need to look at the restrictions on entry, the restrictions on movement, the rules about quarantine following your entry and so on and so on.
 
D

Deleted member 94911

Guest
We are all way ahead of ourselves
borders opening easing lockdowns will take months
i would love to be on a Camino but I have to be realistic and have patience
caminos will be there when pandemic over but albergues opening this year unrealistic
enjoy good weather. 3 of my friends in icu fighting for life
a family member buried yesterday and only 10 people allowed in church and cemetery
normal life a long time away
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
We are all way ahead of ourselves
borders opening easing lockdowns will take months
I'm trying to stick to describing the actual situation as it is right now, concerning current border controls and current restrictions, and to what has actually been officially announced for the immediate future of the next few weeks. And not what may or may not happen in months from now. There's a huge diversity throughout Europe. It's not easy to keep track of developments and I for one appreciate up to date and accurate information from posters in the various countries.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Vive Camino posted a summary and an outlook recently on their website, concerning the current and immediate situation in Spain with a focus on Caminos and peregrinos. I think this provides a fairly good general overview. As most of you will know of course, Spain is divided into several provinces. Galicia, ie the region around the city of Santiago de Compostela, is one such province. I just mention this to help with understanding the machine translation (see link), in particular for people who are yet to travel to Spain for the first time.

Here is a link to their article in Spanish:

And here is a link to a machine translation of this article into English: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&u=https://vivecamino.com/desescalada-en-el-camino-de-santiago-por-el-coronavirus-no-663/
 
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Gerard Hazelebach

Gerard Hazelebach
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (SJPdP - Santiago) September 2014
"The Peace Walk” (Vienna - Venice) August 2015
I read somewhere that there are plans of creating an App where you can see availability in Albergues and a possibility to make reservations when the Camino opens again. Is there any news about this?
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
As most of you will know of course, Spain is divided into several provinces. Galicia, ie the region around the city of Santiago de Compostela, is one such province. I
Actually Spain is divided into 17 Autonomous Communities. The Autonomous Community of Galicia is divided into the provinces of A Coruña, Lugo, Ourense, and Pontevedra.

 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Is the Via Tourensis from Orleans possible? Couldn't work out which Departments were being opened up first.
Not until June at the earliest, and the basic legal framework of lockdown has been extended in France to July 15th.

As things stand, travel is possible without justification to a distance of 100K from your home, provided that this is inside one of the "green zone" Départements, and provided you remain within that Département.

Bottom line : No.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
And there is currently no official information about the state of the external Schengen borders/external EU borders. Closed until 15 May for now and then? That may remain a major hurdle for the majority of forum members, I presume.
The European Commission published new recommendations this afternoon:

The Commission invites the Schengen Member States and the Schengen Associated States to prolong the application of the travel restriction on non-essential travel from third countries into the EU+ area by another 30 days, until 15 June 2020.
Expect the Schengen borders and the EU*) borders to be closed for you until 15 June at least (unless you are an EU national or an EU resident and/or have convincing reason to be granted entry).

*) with the exception of Ireland, obviously, due to the Common Travel Area with the UK.
 
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lindam

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, VDLP, Invierno, Portuguese, Madrid, Ingles, Fisterra, Muxia, Catalan/Aragones/Loyola Norte
Here is the latest news regarding the "de-escalation" of the current lockdown in Spain. In summary, 51% of the Spanish polpulation will move from the current stage 0 to stage 1 effective Monday 11 May. The state of emergency remains in place for the entire country.
 

Lirsy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo, Norte, Francés, Volunteer Hospitalero.
Yesterday, the EU issued a recommendation not to restart international flights until June 15. This seems compatible with the reopening of the Camino in late June or early July.

With all the uncertainties of the current situation, this seems like one more step towards reopening👍
 

Lirsy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo, Norte, Francés, Volunteer Hospitalero.
Lufthansa has announced that they will restart flights to Mallorca in June ... which means they think the border will be open by that date ... one more step!
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
Lufthansa has announced that they will restart flights to Mallorca in June ... which means they think the border will be open by that date ... one more step!
Flights within the Schengen zone will be first to start. Flights from outside the EU will start later.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Here is the latest news regarding the "de-escalation" of the current lockdown in Spain. In summary, 51% of the Spanish polpulation will move from the current stage 0 to stage 1 effective Monday 11 May. The state of emergency remains in place for the entire country.
In English :


And as far as we are concerned ...

Can I travel to another province?

No, but travel within a province, island or healthcare area that has entered Phase 1 will be permitted.

Will timetables for taking exercise be maintained during Phase 1?

The timetables will still be in place, but each region can adjust them to suit their needs. Some regions have already requested modifications to the timetable for children, given the hot weather during the middle of the day.

Can I sit at a street café and have a drink?

Yes, provided there is room, given that only 50% of tables on terraces can be occupied. There will have to be a minimum distance of two meters between tables, and groups of customers cannot number more than 10. Such establishments will not yet be able to open their indoor dining areas, but will still be able to offer food to take away, as they could under Phase 0.

Restaurants and bars will have to prioritize single-use tablecloths, and under no circumstances can a fabric tablecloth be used for more than one customer. Such items will have to be washed at temperatures of between 60 and 90ºC.

Such businesses will have to provide hand gels and disinfectants at the entrance and physical menus will not be provided to customers. Items such as serviette dispensers, toothpicks and oil and vinegar bottles will also not be used, in favor of single servings of the latter.

Is tourism permitted?

According to the BOE, “active tourism” is permitted, such as nature excursions.

What will happen with hotels?

Hotels can reopen with no limit on rooms, but there will be restrictions on the use of common areas such as restaurants.

Can I go to church or other places of worship?

Yes, places of worship will open in Phase 1, but the number of attendees will be reduced to a third of usual capacity. All attendees must wear masks and avoid the distribution or exchange of any object in order to minimize the risk of spreading the virus.

-----

So, bearing in mind that travel between regions in Spain and travel to Spain is not possible, this does technically make possible a social-distancing solo Camino started from inside Galicia by someone resident there, sleeping either outdoors or in hotels, and using a face mask wherever and whenever required.

Given however that the distribution or exchange of any object is repressed in churches, such pilgrims might not be able to obtain a Compostela.

However, in towns & cities larger than 5,000 inhabitants, the following applies, so careful !!

Walks and other physical exercise. From 6am to 10am and from 8pm to 11pm. (the old 1K limit to how far you could stray from your home has been lifted)

____________________________________

More realistically, and despite these technical possibilities, 15th June and to mid-July remain the dates to look out to for most of us.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Flights within the Schengen zone will be first to start. Flights from outside the EU will start later.
Flights internal to each Nation might start first (but maybe not) ; and Government information I have seen suggests that on June 15th flights within the EU + Schengen + UK will start at that date. (not every EU country is in Schengen ; not every Schengen country is in the EU)

Whether inbound and outbound flights will be permitted at the same date to and from some other countries than these, and which ones, is however quite speculative at this point.
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
For those traveling from outside Europe, health insurance will be a major issue. Not many companies are likely to be in a rush to cover Covid for your camino.

Canada’s CTV’s W5 aired a documentary show today (available online) called Covid: Life + Death, about the ICU at a hospital north of Toronto. They’ve had individual patients on ventilators there for 6 weeks. They are doing physical therapy with comatose patients to try maintain some muscle tone. Most of their patients are under 60.

I’ll thank our ancestors for our national universal health care.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Lufthansa has announced that they will restart flights to Mallorca in June ... which means they think the border will be open by that date ... one more step!
Actually, Lufthansa has never stopped flying to and from Mallorca. Or Madrid. Or Barcelona. There are even flights today, Mallorca to Frankfurt for example or Frankfurt to Madrid, I checked.

What they‘ve announced is that they are scheduling more flights - more flights to their current destinations and again flights to other destinations (from currently 30 airports to 106 airports in June).

It remains to be seen who will be allowed to travel on these flights.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
What they‘ve announced is that they are scheduling more flights - more flights to their current destinations and again flights to other destinations (from currently 30 airports to 106 airports in June).
And one of these destinations will be Santiago de Compostela. And Lufthansa's optimistic forward planning starts from the 1st of June, not the 15th. The first flight out of Frankfurt to Santiago is bookable for Monday, 1 June 2020:

FRA-SdC.jpg
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Actually, Lufthansa has never stopped flying to and from Mallorca. Or Madrid. Or Barcelona. There are even flights today, Mallorca to Frankfurt for example or Frankfurt to Madrid, I checked.

What they‘ve announced is that they are scheduling more flights - more flights to their current destinations and again flights to other destinations (from currently 30 airports to 106 airports in June).

It remains to be seen who will be allowed to travel on these flights.
I've been told anecdotally, so do please take this with a proper quantity of salt, that the current flights are for those traveling with valid professional reasons, and to start the repatriation process for those who found themselves stuck abroad.

(not that I've been in an aircraft myself since the 20th Century, so what do I know ... )
 

Felipe

Veteran Member
I *personally* think that is better to be cautious and not plan a Camino until the situation is officially under control, the Camino open even to international pilgrims, and remains so at least a semester. That, I hope, may mean next spring.
 

Lexicos

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
1 Frances
2 Portuguese
Our lives and the lives of millions of others are being re-written as we speak. The things that doing a Camino can teach us are more important now than ever. Thoughtfulness, patience, respect, how best to help others........ etc.
 

Pelegrin

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo June 2013
SJPP - Logroño June 2014
Ingles July2016
Actually Spain is divided into 17 Autonomous Communities. The Autonomous Community of Galicia is divided into the provinces of A Coruña, Lugo, Ourense, and Pontevedra.

Yes. Galicia is now in Fase 1. That means that movements inside a province are allowed. A cousin of mine who lives in a hamlet in Coruña province usually goes shopping to Guitiriz (Lugo), but now is forbidden, so he goes to Betanzos.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
The church of San Francisco in Santiago de Compostela resumes its Eucharistic activity and the priests sprinkle their sermons with hygienic advice against the virus - says an article about the new normality in Spanish or English as produced by Google Translate. Partly serious, partly factual, a bit tongue in cheek sometimes imho.

Fourteen of the faithful attended mass on the first day after lockdown measures had been eased on 11 May in this church where the daily pilgrim mass used to take place in recent months while the Cathedral is closed due to works. All of these fourteen, observes the news reporter, were apparently local parishioners and not pilgrims who, in this 21st century, can be easily identified by their more or less sportive clothing.
 
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NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
According to this article on BBC, RyanIr is planning for a summer season of folks heading south for two weeks vacation. They plan to sell the middle seat, require masks, require asking to use the loo (and I guess the flight attendants act as hall monitors to prevent a queue in the aisle).

They figure nobody going on vacation will comply with the two week quarantine at destination! If begs the moral and ethical question, in my mind, of whether airlines who knowingly sell vacation tickets, where the return is at or before the end of the quarantine period, are liable for costs associated with the spread of the virus. (*** mods- if this ruminating question is too political, I apologize - please delete).

Coronavirus: Ryanair flyers must ask for loo as flights ramp up https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52629644
 

Lirsy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo, Norte, Francés, Volunteer Hospitalero.
Initially, that about the quarantine for tourists will be applied until the end of June, when the state of emergency is supposed to end.

It will, for sure, depend on how the pandemic evolves in each country.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
This story details a broad overview of the varying issues with vaccines, including one that is specific to COVID-19. This is a copy and paste of the original article in order to not include the video link.
-------------------------------------
As drugmakers across the world race to develop a coronavirus vaccine, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said, “There’s no guarantee that the vaccine is actually going to be effective.”

Fauci delivered the somber warning Tuesday to the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions during a hearing about the road to reopening businesses across the nation. U.S. officials have pointed to the development of a vaccine as a key turning point in the Covid-19 pandemic, even though it will take at least 12 to 18 months.

As experimental vaccines are created, they will also need to be mass produced to be administered to the more than 7.6 billion people around the world. In the meantime, there are no proven treatments for the virus.

Fauci’s comments highlight another complexity in the path to a vaccine.

“You can have everything you think that’s in place and you don’t induce the kind of immune response that turns out to be protective and durably protective,” Fauci said of a vaccine. “So one of the big unknowns is, will it be effective? Given the way the body responds to viruses of this type, I’m cautiously optimistic that we will with one of the candidates get an efficacy signal.”

The National Institutes of Health, an agency within the Department of Health and Human Services, has been fast-tracking work with biotech company Moderna to develop a potential vaccine. More than 100 vaccines are in development globally as of April 30, according to the World Health Organization, with at least eight vaccine candidates already in human trials.

Moderna is completing its phase one trial. The company’s potential vaccine contains genetic material called messenger RNA, or mRNA, that was produced in a lab. Last week, Moderna said it would soon begin phase two trials with 600 participants and was finalizing plans for a late-stage trial as early as this summer.

Until a vaccine is ready, Fauci said, the country needs to continue trying to mitigate and contain outbreaks.
Another worry among epidemiologists, Fauci said, is that the vaccine backfires and strengthens the virus.
There have been at least two vaccines in the past that have produced a “suboptimal response,” he said. “And when the person gets exposed, they actually have an enhanced pathogenesis of the disease, which is always worrisome. So we want to make sure that that doesn’t happen. Those are the two major unknowns.”

Still, Fauci said he’s “cautiously optimistic that we will have a candidate that will have some degree of efficacy, hopefully a percentage enough that will induce the kind of herd immunity that would give protection to the population at home.”
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Initially, that about the quarantine for tourists will be applied until the end of June, when the state of emergency is supposed to end.

The quarantine requirements for travelers coming into Spain go into effect this coming Friday, May 15, and will remain in force throughout the duration of the state of alarm, which is due to end on May 24 but may be extended by the government if other parties support such a move in the lower house of parliament, the Congress of Deputies. If the emergency situation is extended for another two weeks, the travel restrictions will, in principle, continue to apply.

Health Minister Salvador Illa added on Tuesday that the quarantine will “very likely [extend] throughout the entire deescalation period,” which is scheduled to end in June if there are no new spikes in coronavirus transmission. Speaking after the Cabinet meeting, Illa said that the goal is to ensure that “the enormous effort of these last nine weeks is not ruined because of one imported case.”

...

Only Spaniards, residents of Spain who can prove regular residency (the ministry warns that owning a home in Spain is not sufficient proof of residency), cross-border workers, diplomats, healthcare professionals and people traveling for reasons of force majeure will be allowed into Spanish territory through these borders, according to an order signed by Interior Minister Fernando Grande-Marlaska, published on Tuesday in the BOE. Workers involved in freight transportation may also enter but only for as long as required to perform their work.

“Considering that during the deescalation process, residents of Spain are subject to travel restrictions between provinces even as measures within these geographical boundaries are eased, it is considered convenient to also limit access to these areas by air and sea from other member states,” reads the BOE published today. “It is reasonable to think that the gradual easing [of confinement conditions] will encourage foreign residents to travel to our country, creating a contradiction with domestic mobility limitations.”


------------

I'd say that the two likely end dates for these quarantine measures, given the general timetables of the European countries, are June 2nd/3rd (start of phase 2) and June 15th (opening of the borders).

And there'll be no tourists coming into Spain in this period, but people returning home from lockdown abroad, and those allowed to travel to Spain for authorised reasons, essentially professional/diplomatic/etc.

The article clarifies that :

Cross-border workers, long-haul truckers, airplane crews and health professionals on their way to work are left out of the quarantine order, as long as they have not been in contact with anyone diagnosed with Covid-19.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I'd say that the two likely end dates for these quarantine measures, given the general timetables of the European countries, are June 2nd/3rd (start of phase 2) and June 15th (opening of the borders).
The European Commission was supposed to publish some kind of blueprint for the opening of internal and external EU borders today but I've not seen anything yet. Politico sums up the situation at the internal EU borders and between the EU countries quite accurately, I think:

The [Schengen area] is now a tangle of unilateral border closures, bilateral tourism agreements and free movement bubbles.
We are in quite an odd situation, being used to travel within Europe at the drop of a hat and without a care in the world. Now we think: Even if I wanted to travel to that destination, would I have the right to go there?
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
The European Commission was supposed to publish some kind of blueprint for the opening of internal and external EU borders today but I've not seen anything yet. Politico sums up the situation at the internal EU borders and between the EU countries quite accurately: The Schengen area is now a tangle of unilateral border closures, bilateral tourism agreements and free movement bubbles.
Meanwhile, they have published a ton of stuff but the underlying message is still the same: It would be great if all the EU countries would adopt a common approach to the lifting of travel bans but we don't have the powers to achieve this, it's up to each individual country. And also: the lifting of travel bans for travellers from outside the EU will be last. No date given.
 
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Lexicos

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
1 Frances
2 Portuguese
If I were to take a bet I’d say it’s highly unlikely that borders will open and flights resume, unless a vaccine is developed. The evidence is there for all to see. This is a very contagious and deadly virus. It’s a fact. My suggestion, do a Camino close to home. It’s surprising what you discover.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
If I were to take a bet I’d say it’s highly unlikely that borders will open and flights resume, unless a vaccine is developed. The evidence is there for all to see. This is a very contagious and deadly virus. It’s a fact. My suggestion, do a Camino close to home. It’s surprising what you discover.
I'm not sure which borders you are talking about as there are many in Europe. And for some of us, say @JabbaPapa and me, doing a Camino close to home would very quickly lead us to a national border or two. 😇
 

Lexicos

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
1 Frances
2 Portuguese
Yes, of course. I’m thinking Australia to Europe. Quite a few borders to cross between these two.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
And if I interpret the signals correctly, it looks like it is highly likely that no consumer in the EU can be forced to accept vouchers due to Covid-19 reasons. If companies and/or countries don't cave in on their own and voluntarily, there might be a court case (COM vs country/countries) and I don't think they will get through with it. If you bought a flight or a package trip from a company that is subject to EU consumer law, you will get your money back eventually if that is your wish and your preference, I'm reasonably confident of it.

PS: It's the formidable Margrethe Vestager who is behind this. 😊
 
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CWBuff

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
in Planning stage: Frances (SJPdP --> SdC) & Finisterre "2021" ... (GOD WILLING!)
Can I go to church or other places of worship?
Yes, places of worship will open in Phase 1, but the number of attendees will be reduced to a third of usual capacity. All attendees must wear masks and avoid the distribution or exchange of any object in order to minimize the risk of spreading the virus.

-----

Given however that the distribution or exchange of any object is repressed in churches, such pilgrims might not be able to obtain a Compostela.
Just as an FYI observation, IMHO thiswould upset a lot more people who will not be able to receive Communion vs. a handful of Pilgrims who will not be able to "immediately" obtain a Compostella

I know I would be quite upset attending a service and be denied it....
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Just as an FYI observation, IMHO thiswould upset a lot more people who will not be able to receive Communion vs. a handful of Pilgrims who will not be able to "immediately" obtain a Compostella
I think there is a misunderstanding. These rules or guidelines do not refer to Communion. If you read the article about the fact that mass has started again in San Francisco in Santiago, you will see that the members of the congregation received Communion. In fact, the priest announced that receiving in one's hand is the preferred method now and those who did not wish to do so and who preferred the more traditional method had to wait and be last. Nobody opted for waiting. The guidelines refer to objects such as the collection bag which is sometimes handed from person to person or kissing or touching a crucifix and similar.
 
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D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
If I were to take a bet I’d say it’s highly unlikely that borders will open and flights resume, unless a vaccine is developed. The evidence is there for all to see. This is a very contagious and deadly virus. It’s a fact. My suggestion, do a Camino close to home. It’s surprising what you discover.
And I would make that bet, plus give you odds :)
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
If I were to take a bet I’d say it’s highly unlikely that borders will open and flights resume, unless a vaccine is developed. The evidence is there for all to see. This is a very contagious and deadly virus. It’s a fact. My suggestion, do a Camino close to home. It’s surprising what you discover.
It could be years before a viable vaccine is developed. Hopefully a good therapeutic drug will come fairly soon. Flights will resume and borders will re-open, but people will be a lot more careful with hygiene and distancing.

A Camino closer to home, where you are in a different place and exposed to new people every day carries just as much risk as a Camino in Spain.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
A Swiss company has developed an antibody test that has 100% reliability : https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...-test-immunity-research-lockdown-matt-hancock

"Last week, scientific experts at PHE Porton Down carried out an independent evaluation of the new Roche Sars-CoV-2 serology assay in record time, concluding that it is a highly specific assay with specificity of 100%.

"This is a very positive development because such a highly specific antibody test is a very reliable marker of past infection.

"This in turn may indicate some immunity to future infection although the extent to which the presence of anti-bodies indicates immunity remains unclear.
"

This is great, as not only will it help prevent a future so-called "second wave", but it will also (finally) allow scientifically accurate statistics to be reliably established for the epidemic.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
A Swiss company has developed an antibody test that has 100% reliability : https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...-test-immunity-research-lockdown-matt-hancock. "Last week, scientific experts at PHE Porton Down carried out an independent evaluation of the new Roche Sars-CoV-2 serology assay in record time, concluding that it is a highly specific assay with specificity of 100%.
Hurrah, yet another game changer 😇. First thing I noticed, or rather asked myself: are accuracy, reliability and specificity the same when it comes to antibody tests and similar medical tests?

This Roche Covid-19 antibody test was approved by the FDA for use in the USA ten days ago, on 3 May, see the Roche press release.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
testing lab there that was involved in the poisoning of those Russians?
I hope I know what you meant to say but this may sound weird to those who didn't follow the news at the time ...
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
An antibody, “Italian-made test, the DiaSorin LIAISON, was approved by Health Canada on Tuesday”. ...small steps, hopefully in right direction.

 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
A number of antibody tests for Covid-19 have been developed and have been ready to bring to market since April. This "bringing to market" procedure is different in the various countries, both for medical tests and for medication. The procedure often takes quite a while. And pharmaceutical companies are keen on the publicity right now. And developing and bringing it to market it one thing, then you also have to produce the test kits en masse. And someone has to pay for the test material and for performing the necessary tasks to produce the test results ...
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
Info for France here from gouv.fr "what can I do?"
je ne dois pas me déplacer à longue distance : je ne me rends pas au-delà de 100 km à vol d’oiseau. Je peux faire plus de 100 km uniquement si je ne sors pas de mon département
My translation
I must not travel long distances. I do not go further than 100km straight line distance. I can go further than 100km only if I do not leave my department.
There are various work related exemptions. You can look them up but none of them include going for a long walk even if you do call it a Camino.

As things stand, travel is possible without justification to a distance of 100K from your home, provided that this is inside one of the "green zone" Départements, and provided you remain within that Département.
So that's not quite correct. The measures taken on travel do not change for private cars, walking, or cycling depending on your department, other than Isle of France, which has some additional restrictions on public transport. There is no general prohibition on entering or leaving red zones.
Prefectures and Mayors can possibly add restrictions in their areas, though this is debateable and would be open to legal challenge.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
I don't know about the Roche and other anti-body tests, but I do know that one of our major research institutes has found that two million anti-body tests imported into Australia by the Australian government are "about as accurate at picking up Covid 19 antibodies as flipping a coin" according to this article.
 

Kathar1na

Member
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To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Here is a quite useful (imho) Q&A that was published in today's Guardian. While this refers mainly to the situation in the UK, i.e. whether this antibodies Roche test will be adopted by the NHS, it is interesting for people in other countries, too, because this Roche antibodies test is being bought in bulk by many other countries since it was approved by the US and the EU authorities at the beginning of May (as far as I know these kind of things are first approved by an EU agency and then they need to be approved in each country, too; in the USA, it was approved by an FDA emergency procedure).

 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
I don't know about the Roche and other anti-body tests, but I do know that one of our major research institutes has found that two million anti-body tests imported into Australia by the Australian government are "about as accurate at picking up Covid 19 antibodies as flipping a coin" according to this article.
These are the same test kits sourced from a Chinese firm that have been returned by Italy and Spain and many other nations for the same reasons.
 

Lexicos

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
1 Frances
2 Portuguese
The thing that I enjoy most about the Camino is that you leave behind the noisy world of current affairs. However important they may seem, they fade into the background when you’re walking and seeing beautiful things and new places every day. Meeting good people, another great joy. I give myself over to a “spiritual” Camino and vision myself walking along the path. Then all the white noise fades away .......
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
In a tit-for-tat response to Spain's quarantine measures, France has decided to impose a 14-day quarantine on those entering France from Spain.

There will OTOH be no such quarantines for those traveling between the UK and France, although quarantines may generally be required for those traveling into Europe from outside the EU, Schengen countries, and UK.

Elsewhere, a New York study has found that 99% of infected persons in a study had antibodies, suggesting that catching the disease twice is quite unlikely ; adding to this is that some South Korean suspected cases of reinfection have turned out to be false positives.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Info for France here from gouv.fr "what can I do?"
je ne dois pas me déplacer à longue distance : je ne me rends pas au-delà de 100 km à vol d’oiseau. Je peux faire plus de 100 km uniquement si je ne sors pas de mon département
My translation
I must not travel long distances. I do not go further than 100km straight line distance. I can go further than 100km only if I do not leave my department.
There are various work related exemptions. You can look them up but none of them include going for a long walk even if you do call it a Camino.

So that's not quite correct. The measures taken on travel do not change for private cars, walking, or cycling depending on your department, other than Isle of France, which has some additional restrictions on public transport. There is no general prohibition on entering or leaving red zones.
Prefectures and Mayors can possibly add restrictions in their areas, though this is debateable and would be open to legal challenge.
Thank you -- and it seems that the initial reporting on this was a bit confusing.


La déclaration est exigée lorsque le déplacement conduit à la fois à sortir :

  • d’un périmètre défini par un cercle d’un rayon de 100 km autour du lieu de résidence (la distance de 100 km est donc calculée «à vol d’oiseau»),
  • du département.
Il n'est pas nécessaire de se munir de la déclaration :

  • pour les déplacements de plus de 100 km effectués au sein de son département de résidence.
  • pour les déplacements en dehors du département de résidence, dans la limite de 100km.

So you need to fill in your declaration and have valid reasons IF you travel more than 100K from your home AND if that involves crossing into a different Département.

But you can travel further than 100K within a single Département ; and you can freely cross into another Département provided that you stay within that 100K radius.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Me :
In a tit-for-tat response to Spain's quarantine measures, France has decided to impose a 14-day quarantine on those entering France from Spain.
More positively, the French Government is to make a huge €18B push to kickstart the tourism sector, and has promised to make holidays for the French in France possible in July and August --

Which as far as we are concerned, provided you can get to France or are here already, means that a Camino on the French routes should be possible this summer.

OTOH, it is very possible, from reports I've seen in the Italian and Swiss press on developments in Brussels, that the Spanish and Italian borders may remain closed to foreigners beyond June 15th, even as the rest of Europe opens up.
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
A number of antibody tests for Covid-19 have been developed and have been ready to bring to market since April.
I heard in an interview of a public health expert in the States that there are a number of antibody tests presently being used, but only a very small number (about three) were reliably accurate. An inaccurate test is worse than no test, so it's wonderful news that there is an accurate one being brought to the market. Let's hope it gets wide distribution.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
I'm not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but in case it has not - this is the advice on the Vueling Website - which seems to me very clear:

"From 12am (midnight) on 15th May, until the end of the state of alarm, only the following people are allowed to travel to Spain:
1. Spanish citizens
2. Residents in Spain
3. Cross-border workers
4. Health workers or carers for the elderly who are travelling to work
5. People who prove with documents reasons of force majeure or that they are in need
6. Foreign people who prove they are a member of a diplomatic mission, consulate or international organisation based in Spain, providing they are travelling on official business
7. People travelling to Spain exclusively for work, including those mentioned above
In all these cases the situation must be proven with documents.
With the exception of cross-border workers, carriers, crew and health workers who have not been in contact with people diagnosed with COVID-19, the rest of passengers who fulfil the aforementioned requirements and arrive in Spain from abroad must remain in quarantine for 14 days, in accordance with the Spanish Ministry of Health Order SND/403/2020.
During this quarantine period, travellers must remain at home or in their accommodation and must only go out to buy food, medicine or basic necessities, to go to medical centres, or for reasons of force majeure. Face masks must be worn at all times when going out. Please note that during your stay in Spain you must follow all the government health guidelines, and that Spanish authorities may contact you to monitor your situation.
Additionally, all passengers coming to Spain from abroad must fill in a public health passenger locator form, and hand it in when they arrive."
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Quoting myself again LOL...

More positively, the French Government is to make a huge €18B push to kickstart the tourism sector, and has promised to make holidays for the French in France possible in July and August --
El Pais is reporting today that Italy will follow a similar, but different strategy, by providing the poorer Italian families with holiday vouchers to be used inside Italy.

----

Otherwise, Kanga, I'm a little unsure about that report from the Vueling Website, as it seems to describe the measures that are currently in place until 15th June midnight -- and it is by no means certain that the Spanish Parliament would agree to keep them in place in the exact same form after that date, although there's a strong rumour and perhaps likelihood that it's liable to be the case.

And if they deemed it necessary, the Government always has the option of securing a direct Royal Decree (Constitution : «In case of extraordinary and urgent need, the Government may issue temporary legislative provisions which shall take the form of decree-laws (...)» ).

Keeping the politics to the strict minimum, but it's impossible to talk about national lockdown provisions without that bare minimum, for which I nevertheless apologise.

BTW the Vueling site information misses the case that there can be travel permits allowed for urgent family necessity, although to be perfectly fair, that has only become a possibility in the last 48 hours or so. Otherwise, it is an excellent description of the current state of permissions.

----

The Spanish Government has decided to increase the rate of its lockdown reviews for each Region to a weekly basis rather than every two weeks -- although each of the lockdown measures and "phases" still lasts two weeks. This is because there are starting to be variations inside the Regions within each "phase", so that Barcelona is being described by the media as being in a "phase 0.5", whereas the rest of Catalonia has progressed to "phase 1".
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Travel restrictions are to be lifted in Italy on 3rd June. :cool:

No quarantine measures will be put in place.

This concerns travel from the EU, the Schengen travel area, and the UK.

EDIT :

Some internal restrictions may remain in place, and unfortunately for Francigena pilgrims those will be in Tuscany and Piemonte, where restrictions will continue, although I am unsure whether these will concern travel. Restaurants etc are opening everywhere on Monday except in those two regions, where it will be a week later on the 25th.

Those regions will decide whether to allow people to travel in and out of them, but it's unclear at present.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Some details about the future "phase 2" have emerged from El Pais : https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-05...os-horarios-para-el-deporte-y-los-paseos.html .

Being outdoors will generally be permitted, but in Municipalities of 5000 10,000 inhabitants or higher forbidden in two daily periods, except for the elderly etc for their shopping etc and certain professionals, between 10 AM to midday ; and 7 to 8 PM. Outside of those times, no restrictions on outdoor activities except as regards group sizes.

Restaurants etc will be limited to 40% capacity, with some hard limits of 20 people max ; table or takeaway service only, no standing at the bar

Hostelry will be limited to 30% capacity

Churches to 50% capacity
 
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Josh G

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CDN, 2014; Partial CDN, 2015; CP 2018; CP 2020
Hey everyone, thanks a lot for all of your comments. It's great having this forum to come to check in with what's happening. I'm in Berlin and I'm really missing the Camino right now. If it was open, I'd go tomorrow. As others have said before, it's offered some of the best times in my life. So grateful.

I'm just wondering if there is a summary of where things are at now, in terms of when the various Caminos might reopen. According to Deutsche Welle (dw.com/en), Portugal will open to international tourism, including hotels and beaches, in mid June (link). Some reports say it will be the same time frame for Spain. Italy will open on June 3.

Is it realistic to think we might be able to walk one of the Caminos from mid June or, alternatively, in September? I realise there is a lot of apprehension about this, and to some extent rightly so. I'm also aware it's probably going to be very welcome, economically speaking, that tourism recommences.

What are you all thinking now about this situation? How many of you are planning a Camino this summer or fall?

Best wishes,
Josh
 

LTfit

Veteran Member
Mid June looks out of the question as Spain will still be going through the deescalation process. Our PM Sánchez has asked to extend the lockdown for a 5th time, the current period ends on May 25. Instead of the past 4 times, he now wants to extend it for a month bringing us till the end of June. This has to be approved by Parliament.

Considering the above and that some of us (Madrid, Barcelona and most of Castilla y León) are still in Fase 0 of 4, July or August is probably the earliest possible for Spanish pilgrims. When will it be open for foreigners? There is no indication at this point that Spain will open its borders any time soon.

September may be a possibility. Who.knows how the situation will develop.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Although not directly connected to the Camino, this article was interesting. From the perspective of 'what is the hospitality industry now considering', it covers some interesting ground.

 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Slightly political again, unavoidable, but as this can be of interest to some pilgrims currently in France (if not on a Camino as such), as well as of general interest as to the exiting from lockdowns ...

The French Constitutional Council has ruled that the continued closure of places of worship for services is illegal versus the concurrent reopening of places of business, and has ordered the Government to reopen them within 8 days.

FWIW I've been able to attend Mass for two weeks now in Monaco, and there's no problem whatsoever with any overcrowding or failures to meet social distancing requirements, given that most people are sensible.
 
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