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COVID COVID-19: Corona virus discussion (ROUND 7)

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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Just copying in the rules from Round 6. If you want to check out where that thread left off, it is here.

PLEASE...Please stick with the forum rules against Politics...it is always a problem. Do not post links to other sites that offer criticism or opinion of any Country or national leader. The forum is not the place for political discussion or argument.

Please do not offer medical advice or pass on unsubstantiated rumors or unofficial sources.

It is okay to discuss what’s happening with you here. People are a bit scared and some here are alone. Maybe we can share and comfort one another.

Rudeness or attacks on others will simply be deleted without comment
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
An article appeared today in Spanish news media about one of the first pilgrims to walk the Camino again. No doubt numerous "first pilgrims walking again" articles will follow. Some of you may know the pilgrim, his name is Oliver Kloidt; he has a long and extensive Camino history it seems. He is currently walking in Castilla y Leon. The photo is taken near Ponferrada.

 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
Ten weeks? Did I read that right? Ugh. Safety first, though.
Yes, ten weeks has been the length of time of the confinement in Spain (and other countries, btw).

He is not your average pilgrim, though. He has been hospitalero in many places, and the Camino is his home, as it says in the article.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
France is lifting all travel restrictions within the country on Monday.

Additionally people will be able to freely travel from France to Italy, though it may be difficult for non-French Nationals to travel from Italy to France.

Hostelries and restaurants etc are also opening with some restrictions in the area around Paris only.

Walking on the French routes of the Way of Saint James is now possible starting Monday, and given that all restrictions are being lifted in Switzerland on 6th June, the three routes of the Francigena through France, Switzerland, and Italy (but not UK) will be open within the next 10 days.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
France is lifting all travel restrictions within the country on Monday.

Additionally people will be able to freely travel from France to Italy, though it may be difficult for non-French Nationals to travel from Italy to France.

Hostelries and restaurants etc are also opening with some restrictions in the area around Paris only.

Walking on the French routes of the Way of Saint James is now possible starting Monday, and given that all restrictions are being lifted in Switzerland on 6th June, the three routes of the Francigena through France, Switzerland, and Italy (but not UK) will be open within the next 10 days.
This is some potentially good news. I will be "standing back" though in the mean time to watch and wait to see if covid cases ramp up again as a result before letting myself get carried away in excitement.
 

FooteK

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to SdC, 2013; Lourdes to SdC, 2015; ??? to SdC (2020)
Yes, ten weeks has been the length of time of the confinement in Spain (and other countries, btw).

He is not your average pilgrim, though. He has been hospitalero in many places, and the Camino is his home, as it says in the article.
My Spanish is terrible. Thanks for helping me understand. I did get that he has been a hospitalero but i didn't realize that his actual home is on the Camino. I'll go back and work my way through the article some more. Thanks for the help, again.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
This is some potentially good news. I will be "standing back" though in the mean time to watch and wait to see if covid cases ramp up again as a result before letting myself get carried away in excitement.
Me too
 

Diane Borden

Member
Camino(s) past & future
July/August 2017 - Astorga to Finesterre
July/August 2020 - SJPP to Santiago
My plan was to begin walking from Saint Jean Pied de Port on July 14th. While I've been hopeful, I've been holding this all so loosely. I'll continue to hold it so, as I know things can change quickly, but this does seem to side favorably for my summer Camino - right?
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
My plan was to begin walking from Saint Jean Pied de Port on July 14th. While I've been hopeful, I've been holding this all so loosely. I'll continue to hold it so, as I know things can change quickly, but this does seem to side favorably for my summer Camino - right?

If you're from outside the EU, there's still the thorny question of whether you'll be allowed to travel into Europe.

Airports are generally not reopening for normal travel 'til mid-June, and even then it will at first be for internal flights only.
 

Diane Borden

Member
Camino(s) past & future
July/August 2017 - Astorga to Finesterre
July/August 2020 - SJPP to Santiago
If you're from outside the EU, there's still the thorny question of whether you'll be allowed to travel into Europe.

Airports are generally not reopening for normal travel 'til mid-June, and even then it will at first be for internal flights only.
Yes. I'd be coming from the US. So - a good reminder! Thank you. I know getting to come is a totally long shot - and for sure I want to choose responsibly, if I even have a choice...but I just can't quite reschedule it for another time just yet...
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
I'll go back and work my way through the article some more.
When one pastes the url of a news article into Google Translate, one usually gets a reasonable machine translation although with some surprises, see here: https://translate.google.com/transl...anuevacronica.com/cuando-el-camino-es-tu-casa. It is a useful tool. When you highlight a word in the translated text, it will show you the Spanish original. Here, for example, there is mention of the Lebanon town of Rabanal del Camino - the original text speaks of the localidad leonesa, a town in the province of Leon. ☺
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
This is translated from a Spanish Camino related website and a fair summary of the situation as it presents itself at this moment in time:
  • Starting on 7 June, some albergues on the Camino de Santiago may open their doors to welcome pilgrims from their own province.
  • It will not be until 21 June that the road will be fully operational but only for Spanish pilgrims.
  • From 1 July, foreigners [they don't specify which category of foreigners, i.e. from which countries] will be able to enter Spain and the Camino will return to its usual normality. However, with added safety measures and hygiene measures.
I would say that this is not set in stone but it is a helpful guideline in these times of confusing and conflicting information.
 
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JiminVa

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances Aug/Sept 17; Frances Aug/Sept 18
My son and I are planning on flying from US on 12 August to Lourdes. Train to SJPP, start walking to Santiago from SJPP around the 16th, via the Frances and Invierno. We'll then bus to Fatima and fly home from Lisbon. Flights are with Delta (US to Orly and Lisbon to US) and Air France (ORLY to Tarbes). We're hoping we'll be able to go this year. Right now we're assuming we're going to go and training/preparing accordingly. BUT understand this is ALL out of our hands and are also prepared not to go.
 

Tess@rest

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances
Norte
Finstr/Mux
Primitivo
Via la Plata
Sanabres
Portugues
Levante
Lana
Ingles
For those of you who don't get the information about travel through the Smart Traveler Program & the US State Department here is what was issued today (5/29/2020):
Location: Spain – Level 4: Do Not Travel
Event: The mandatory 14-day self-quarantine period for inbound travelers will remain in effect through June 30. For more information, see our May 14 Health Alert.
 
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Dre

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
To walk part of the primitivo in june 2016
Hey Guys,

So Spain is opening up on the 1st of July to tourists.
I would love to do a week or 2 on the Camino.
Does anyone know if there will be Albergues and Pensions open?
And if there will be anyone else on the Camino. I have walked lots of routes on my own but feel a bit vulnerable going out there when there might not be anyone else walking.

Chat soon,
Dre
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
In looking through the explanations throughout the website to define the intent of the advisory, I think it is important to reiterate your quoted statement that the advisory is in a compliance agreement with Spain to discourage open travel from the US when Spain has declared a travel limitation. This is not a US initiated advisory based on a unique concern from American public health officials.

In fact, prior to Spain's new quarantine, the US advisory was for 'Caution' when traveling to Spain.

As soon as Spain lifts their current temporary quarantine on travelers who are allowed to come into Spain, the US will also lift that advisory. Of course, Spain may well create a list of nation's whose citizens are not allowed to enter on tourism visits when it does open its borders. America may or may not be on such a list, if one is created.
 

Tess@rest

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances
Norte
Finstr/Mux
Primitivo
Via la Plata
Sanabres
Portugues
Levante
Lana
Ingles
In looking through the explanations throughout the website to define the intent of the advisory, I think it is important to reiterate your quoted statement that the advisory is in a compliance agreement with Spain to discourage open travel from the US when Spain has declared a travel limitation. This is not a US initiated advisory based on a unique concern from American public health officials.

In fact, prior to Spain's new quarantine, the US advisory was for 'Caution' when traveling to Spain.

As soon as Spain lifts their current temporary quarantine on travelers who are allowed to come into Spain, the US will also lift that advisory. Of course, Spain may well create a list of nation's whose citizens are not allowed to enter on tourism visits when it does open its borders. America may or may not be on such a list, if one is created.
Thanks for further clarification .... there has been so much debate on the forum as to when and how Spain could and should reopen that I wanted to share some factual information. I was due to return to Spain for the Camino Mozarabe in mid April so I had signed up for the alerts and continue to get them. I highly recommend signing up for the alerts.
 

C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
there has been so much debate on the forum as to when and how Spain could and should reopen that I wanted to share some factual information. I was due to return to Spain for the Camino Mozarabe in mid April so I had signed up for the alerts and continue to get them. I highly recommend signing up for the alerts.
Yes, there has been a lot of debate. Most of it is factual, to some degree, but the problems are usually incompleteness, timeliness, or context. The situation is changing quickly - we cannot possibly keep up with it all and report on it in a reliable way. That is a good recommendation for people to sign up for direct alerts from the US Embassy if they are interested.

We are trying to limit the number of new threads discussing Covid around the world, and the various implications including travel restrictions, so another recent thread was merged here.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Some details about the relaxation of the confinement in phase 3 have been made available :


People will be able to travel within the whole of their Region, and to stand at the bar for a cerveza or a cafe con leche.

Common areas in hostelries will be reopened, and permitted restaurant capacity will increase from 50% to 75%.

Some phase 2 permissions are applied to phase 1 areas, though these are provisions concerning children mainly, not pilgrims.

Some more detailed descriptions of this phase 3 will undoubtedly appear in a matter of days.
 

LTfit

Veteran Member
For many Phase 3 is still several weeks away. There are still parts of Spain in Phase 1 (parts of Castilla y León, Madrid and Barcelona). We are hoping to move to Phase 2 on June 8th.
 

Michael-FL

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Caminho Portugues (2017)
Frances/Salvador/Primitivo (2021)
My son and I are planning on flying from US on 12 August to Lourdes. Train to SJPP, start walking to Santiago from SJPP around the 16th, via the Frances and Invierno. We'll then bus to Fatima and fly home from Lisbon. Flights are with Delta (US to Orly and Lisbon to US) and Air France (ORLY to Tarbes). We're hoping we'll be able to go this year. Right now we're assuming we're going to go and training/preparing accordingly. BUT understand this is ALL out of our hands and are also prepared not to go.
Keep us posted. I cancelled my Spring 2020 Camino and right now, don’t know when I’ll go.
 

ObeeOne

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Planning stage for 2020
Looking a little better for my postponed and replanned Camino in October!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Norte and Frances Sept 6 - Oct 11, 2016
An article appeared today in Spanish news media about one of the first pilgrims to walk the Camino again. No doubt numerous "first pilgrims walking again" articles will follow. Some of you may know the pilgrim, his name is Oliver Kloidt; he has a long and extensive Camino history it seems. He is currently walking in Castilla y Leon. The photo is taken near Ponferrada.

Don't know if that is a good idea.
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
For many Phase 3 is still several weeks away. There are still parts of Spain in Phase 1 (parts of Castilla y León, Madrid and Barcelona). We are hoping to move to Phase 2 on June 8th.
My province is in phase 2 since a week now and tbh there isn't so much difference. I found the leap from phase 0 to phase 1 huge, but in phase 2 and 3 it is more about the details. The next big change will come at the end of the state of alarm I think and then when foreigners are allowed back in.

However the big question will be what the different autonomous regions will do at the end of the state of alarm. Could be that we will get a lot more local differences.
 

MickMac

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2013
Frances 2016
Frances 2017
Frances 2018
Frances 2018
Ponferrada-Santiago
July 2019

LTfit

Veteran Member
Sánchez will be asking approval for a sixth extension of the State of Alarm which will bring us to June 21st. This would not change the 4 phase deescalation process but would facilitate the control.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Sánchez will be asking approval for a sixth extension of the State of Alarm which will bring us to June 21st

Last time was touch and go, and indeed that June 21st date is less than what the Government wanted for the fifth extension.

It's probably best to wait for the result of the vote in Parliament rather than try and predict it ; Spain does after all have a hung Parliament.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Sánchez will be asking approval for a sixth extension of the State of Alarm which will bring us to June 21st

Encouragingly though, he has been describing it as the "final" extension request, and talking about the de-confinement plan going "faster than expected".

He has suggested that over half of Spain will be in "phase 3" on June 8th.
 

Isca-camigo

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Various ones.
Just seen a press release regarding this, it's common sense I suppose.
From a personal point of view it takes care of the worries I had about going in July. I have feeling Xmas might be too early as well, so here's hoping for next year.
 

Bad Pilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Far too many...
Just seen a press release regarding this, it's common sense I suppose.
From a personal point of view it takes care of the worries I had about going in July. I have feeling Xmas might be too early as well, so here's hoping for next year.

Holy Corona...!

In that case, they won't let me in before 2030...! o_O
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
From a couple of news sources:


 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
Holy Corona...! In that case, they won't let me in before 2030...! o_O
So say The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, and apparently also Yahoo Sports ... apparently the source is an interview that a Spanish minister, Maria Reyes Maroto, gave to the Spanish press or to Efe I think. I'm still looking for the source, does anyone have it? It's just an interview ...?!
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
So say The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, and apparently also Yahoo Sports ... apparently the source is an interview that a Spanish minister, Maria Reyes Maroto, gave to the Spanish press or to Efe I think. I'm still looking for the source, does anyone have it? It's just an interview ...?!
Found it. This is about a trial phase that will start in the middle of June already.

Original:

Google Translation:
Spain works on safe routes to receive tourists in the second half of June
 

pelerine

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte 10, Primitivo 13, Plata 14+15, Salvador 16, Torres 17, Portugues 18, Mozarabe 19
Bollocks, yes, maybe, whatever that means. Not quite speculative. I still have my bookings ( made many months ago) to go to Granada from Brittany via London - London to Granada with my London daughter. Wait and see.....
 

Isca-camigo

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Various ones.
Bollocks, yes, maybe, whatever that means. Not quite speculative. I still have my bookings ( made many months ago) to go to Granada from Brittany via London - London to Granada with my London daughter. Wait and see.....

The speculative bollocks bit was my reference to Xmas,
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Sánchez stated in his press conference that freedom of movement within Spain will return after June 21st. :cool:

Free movement within phase 3 regions may be possible from June 8th, though the article in El Pais is confusing on this point.

Still no definitive word on travelers from outside Spain though (just speculation), apart from the quarantine measures also to end with the end of the State of Alarm ...
 

Old Kiwi

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2016
Camino Frances 2019
SdC to Muxia and Fisterra 2019
Camino Portuguese "2021"
I am supposed to be starting in Lisbon in two weeks but obviously that won't happen. I will do that next June. If I am very lucky I will try for the Madrid Camino on the 1st of September. If Spain allows travelers from New Zealand by then, I will be a definite starter.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
Not speculation but at least something from sources closer to the Camino (Frances) than many other sources:

The SJPP pilgrims office says on their FB site that they have phoned albergues between SJPP and Pamplona to ask about their intentions for opening from 1 July onwards. In Espinal, Zubiri, Larrasoaña and Pamplona, 95 % will not open on that day, apparently because of the new rules imposed by the government. Some said that they may open in September.

Again, according to the SJPP pilgrims office on FB, nothing has been decided for Roncesvalles. On the other hand, Roncesvalles has a new announcement on their website: Ya puede realizar su reserva para estancias a partir del 1 de julio del año 2020. On the third hand, the running of the Roncesvalles albergue during the summer months is done by volunteers from a Dutch organisation and apparently their newsletter has been mute about all this up to now.

A very recent Voz de Galicia article states for the immediate future that in Galicia 40 % of the albergues (not sure whether public, private or all) will open their doors and implement the appropriate measures imposed by the government, 10 % say they will do so when there is a vaccin or treatment (I guess that means targeted and tested medication) and the rest is undecided.

This was published during the last few days (end of May). Things are fluid and can change from one day to the next but I guess everyone knows that by now.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details

Transportation Minister José Luis Ábalos raised the possibility on Monday of allowing movement between provinces and regions that have entered Phase 3 of the government’s deescalation plan. Only the Canary Islands of El Hierro, La Gomera and La Graciosa, and the Balearic Island of Formentera are currently in this stage. But more than half of the country may join the islands on June 8, when the next phase change is scheduled to take place.

According to Ábalos, the restrictions on movement could be relaxed under Phase 3 if the coronavirus outbreak continues to slow, and if the move is supported by the regional governments, which will have control of the final stage of the deescalation process, as Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez announced on Sunday.


The State of Alarm has been extended 'til June 21st, after which it will end.
 
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alhartman

346 joyful days in Spain and France since 2005
Camino(s) past & future
Hope so!
My heart so wants yet one more Camino; and my body has begun the infirmities of old-age but my mind keeps reminding me of one of my personal rules from 20 years as a Project manager:

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Some potentially good news for UK pilgrims -- slightly political, sorry, but not too bad.

The British plans to introduce a quarantine seem to be unraveling, and they are being described by more and more people as being "untenable".

In response, it seems that they are set to be watered down, with "air corridors" to be set up to allow travel to and from certain countries deemed to be "safe" (though Spain has already announced it will not allow travelers from the UK for the time being).

----

In Spanish news, it would seem that phase 3 travel between regions may be possible on a case-by-case basis, so that the regions will agree with each other, or not, on an individual basis whether to allow travel between those regions ; rather than inter-regional travel being possible automatically to and from each phase 3 region.

The regional President of Galicia is pushing fairly hard for a reopening of the international border between Galicia and Portugal, which sounds like good news for lovers of the Caminho Português ...
 
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LTfit

Veteran Member
From what I have read Portugal will be opening it's border with Spain mid June.

And the 6th and final extention to the State of Alarm bringing us to June 21st is not yet finalized.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
I am subscribed to a newsletter that is associated with the publisher of the French guidebooks Lepère. They cover all the Saint James ways in France. In their most recent newsletter, they mention that many readers ask them whether they know about the opening of gîtes "in France, in Spain, in Italy, in Papua and in Turkistan ...". They say that they don't know anything at all and that the situation can evolve favourably or not favourably.

Then they speculate a bit: that accommodation will tend to be focused in individualisation, i.e. one pilgrim per room, or a family per room, and depending on the rules maintained by health authorities, it may be smart by gîte owners to invest in individual tents so that every pilgrim can sleep in her or his tent but for that the gîte owner would need a large enough garden as the tents have to be spaced out by 5 metres or more so that social distances can be maintained.

In short, nothing new or nothing that hasn't been discussed many times in recent threads ... although I think the forum camping planners haven't thought yet about distance rules between tents on these Covid-19 times. 😇
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
I debated where to put this, but this seems a reasonable thread to do so. It’s not Spain, but it is related to congregate living, such as albergue-using pilgrims would be doing. On one farm in Canada, 125 workers out of 226 contracted Covid 19. Some are now in hospital. These workers arrived in early April and underwent 14 days quarantine. They share living space: sleeping, bathroom and kitchen. They were found to be Covid-19 positive at the end of May.

edited to add: the number has now grown to 164 testing positive.

 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
I debated where to put this, but this seems a reasonable thread to do so.
This is a good thread for a quiet conversation. Not too many people read it ;). I am tempted to post a link to a very recent study published in Science (I think). It was mentioned recently in a podcast by a leading virologist.

We know more about transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 virus now than two months ago. The measures that are being implemented in the various countries, like in Spain, will hugely reduce transmission rates. That's the general aim for public health. It will not make the environment 100% safe for the individual. The study is acually mainly about the use of face masks, i.e. covering mouth and nose. Two months ago we were told that the cheap disposable masks or cloth masks are of no use for the mask wearer. Now were are told that they do help. Because it is not the single virus that we have to fear but a massive dose of viruses and they don't come on their own through the air, they ride in aerosols and on dust particles etc. I found that interesting.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
I am tempted to post a link to a very recent study published in Science
I had the misfortune yesterday to look at the FB page of a well-known Camino personality who shall remain unnamed. He had a link to a video about the mascarillas - face masks. My eyebrows rose when I started watching the video and they were still raised when I finished watching. In fact, I didn't even finish it. A GP doctor is cited in it who shall also remain unnamed. It has apparently become a viral video in Spain, and not of the good sort. BUT that's what people will watch and many will believe what they see and hear, whether in Spain or elsewhere.

You don't even have to leave this forum to know that there are people - and future pilgrims - who will proudly not wear a face mask when it is recommended or even prescribed. So that's the reality. There is often talk of fear and that we must not fear but must be brave. I don't live in fear. I am not particularly brave either. I simply don't trust everyone, not even every Camino pilgrim. 🤭

Here's the link to the article. Warning: it may make boring reading and there is stuff like ≤5 μm in it. The title is: Masks and testing are necessary to combat asymptomatic spread in aerosols and droplets - Reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2, published in Science Magazine on 27 May 2020.
 
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LTfit

Veteran Member
I had the misfortune yesterday to look at the FB page of a well-known Camino personality who shall remain unnamed. He had a link to a video about the mascarillas - face masks. My eyebrows rose when I started watching the video and they were still raised when I finished watching. In fact, I didn't even finish it. A GP doctor is cited in it who shall also remain unnamed. It has apparently become a viral video in Spain, and not of the good sort. BUT that's what people will watch and many will believe what they see and hear, whether in Spain or elsewhere.

You don't even have to leave this forum to know that there are people - and future pilgrims - who will proudly not wear a face mask when it is recommended or even prescribed. So that's the reality. There is often talk of fear and that we must not fear but must be brave. I don't live in fear. I am not particularly brave either. I simply don't trust everyone, not even every Camino pilgrim. 🤭

Here's the link to the article. Warning: it may make boring reading and there is stuff like ≤5 μm in it. The title is: Masks and testing are necessary to combat asymptomatic spread in aerosols and droplets - Reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2, published in Science Magazine on 27 May 2020.

I would love to know who the Camino personality is;).

I was particularly flabbergasted when I read the following comment on a FB Camino page (paraphrasing):
Why is everyone so afraid? What happened to "the Camino provides" and "Camino angels"?
My response was "We are being sensible. I don't think that a Camino angel can keep you from catching the COVID-19 virus."
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
It was mentioned recently in a podcast by a leading virologist.
Which podcast? Is it an English language podcast? I've been listening to a lot of podcasts while I walk in my neighborhood and do housework. Always looking for something new and interesting.
I would love to know who the Camino personality is;).
Me too!
I was particularly flabbergasted when I read the following comment on a FB Camino page (paraphrasing):
Why is everyone so afraid? What happened to "the Camino provides" and "Camino angels"?
My response was "We are being sensible. I don't think that a Camino angel can keep you from catching the COVID-19 virus."
I don't get how taking reasonable and responsible precautions = fear.
If I live in earthquake country I prepare with an earthquake kit, that doesn't mean that I'm living in fear.
If I live in a tornado or hurricane prone area I make sure that I have a safe space to shelter, and I go there when there is a tornado or hurricane warning, that doesn't mean that I'm living in fear.
I also wear a seat belt when I'm in a car, but I'm not living in fear.
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
Because it is not the single virus that we have to fear but a massive dose of viruses and they don't come on their own through the air, they ride in aerosols and on dust particles etc.
Dust particles ... wow. I hadn’t heard that before.

I find lately, going to the grocery store, that people are getting sloppy in their social distancing. As time goes by, people are getting complacent about risk; this will be true of pilgrims too. I hate going to the store, because I don’t trust these selfish people; I can only imagine how unpleasant it would be to have to be on guard against selfish people on the camino. Day after day, encounter by encounter.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
The podcast I mentioned is not in English. The FB poster shall remain unnamed. It's not my intention to blame anyone, I was just a little too annoyed about the stuff that's floating about. I rarely see this stuff as I am next to "friendless" on FB and ignore most of the FB news feeds anyway. I just visit several groups that deal with stuff I am interested in.

What's going on right now with the impending "opening of borders" or more accurately with the "ending of border controls" is laughable. Again, a respectable Camino FB group posted this morning that Spain announces the opening of its borders for 22 June. Google for the original source and before you find anything you see another - and by minutes newer - news report that informs you that Spain has just corrected this announcement and that Portugal demands explanations. One thing I learnt during the last two months: borders need to be opened from both sides to be truly open. And that getting out of a country is in principle easier than getting into the country on the other side of the border 😂.

So my advice would be: ignore this stuff unless you really intend to travel within the next few days. And don't get your news from FB or other online forums, go to your country's official website and to the official website of the country you wish to travel to.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Spain will be opening its international land borders to Portugal and France (plus presumably Andorra and Gibraltar) on 1st July, according to Spain's Minister for Tourism Reyes Maroto.

The EU is requesting that all internal EU borders be open on July 1st at latest.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
And from this morning's La Depeche, a regional daily French newspaper published in Toulouse:

As the first pilgrims make their return, a "walker's guide" ["guide du marcheur"], jointly drawn up by all the tourist offices of the GR65 [Le Puy camino], awaits them to inform them of the places where to rest, drink, wash their laundry, find a doctor ... Accommodations are now open but the number of walkers is still low and foreign pilgrims have not yet returned.
Apparently already back in force: the camper vans.

I think the walker's guide is a booklet that they issue every year, it is not Covid-19 specific. Never seen it mentioned on the forum but it looks actually quite useful for every walker pilgrim.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
What's going on right now with the impending "opening of borders" or more accurately with the "ending of border controls" is laughable.
Just to avoid misunderstandings: When I said the situation is laughable I didn't mean to single out Spain. You get conflicting statements from government members in other countries, too. Or a situation where the country on one side of the land border declares their borders open now or to be open soon and the country on the other side says differently. Belgium, Germany, Luxembourg, Austria, France, Italy, Poland ... it's been ludicrous and still is.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
Good heavens, did this even make the international news: Qatar Airways flight QR203 from Doha to Athens on this Wednesday, 3 June where no Covid-19 infections were detected before boarding in Doha and 12 Covid-19 infections were detected after landing in Athens.

Qatar Airways says all passengers in Athens-bound flight were healthy in Doha and Covid-19: Greece quarantines all passengers from Qatar flight - all 91 travellers put in quarantine after 12 test positive, illustrating risk of welcoming back tourists.

When they arrived in Doha and before boarding the flight to Athens, all passengers were tested according to the procedures and established health protocols and were found fit to continue their journey,” Qatar Airlines said. Just for info, the 12 infected passengers came from the Pakistani city of Gujrat, from Australia and from Japan, and all were either Greek nationals or had Greek residency permits, meaning that they were entitled to travel to Greece.

So notwithstanding individual health risks and individual transmission risks, the reliability of testing, and asymptomatic virus carriers, this is a risk you run: that you will be quarantined for one or two weeks at your destination airport or at an airport along the way.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
It all seems far too soon to going much further than your own postcode.
International travel and international flights are one thing. As to the postcode and just based on my own feelings: people who have not been going further than their own postcode for twelve weeks - for two and a half months !!! - are raring to go somewhere beyond it. I myself am counting the hours: it's 68 hours for me and then I plan to get into my car, drive beyond my postcode area and go for a longish day walk. It could be even called a Camino walk. :cool:
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
Good heavens, did this even make the international news: Qatar Airways flight QR203 from Doha to Athens on this Wednesday, 3 June where no Covid-19 infections were detected before boarding in Doha and 12 Covid-19 infections were detected after landing in Athens.

Qatar Airways says all passengers in Athens-bound flight were healthy in Doha and Covid-19: Greece quarantines all passengers from Qatar flight - all 91 travellers put in quarantine after 12 test positive, illustrating risk of welcoming back tourists.

When they arrived in Doha and before boarding the flight to Athens, all passengers were tested according to the procedures and established health protocols and were found fit to continue their journey,” Qatar Airlines said. Just for info, the 12 infected passengers came from the Pakistani city of Gujrat, from Australia and from Japan, and all were either Greek nationals or had Greek residency permits, meaning that they were entitled to travel to Greece.

So notwithstanding individual health risks and individual transmission risks, the reliability of testing, and asymptomatic virus carriers, this is a risk you run: that you will be quarantined for two weeks at your destination airport or at an airport along the way.
The Greek government has also suspended all flights from Qatar because of this. So even if you think the border is open to your country, things can change very quickly.
To clarify, the Greek government hasn't opened freely to international travel at all yet. They have been testing everyone on arrival. If you test negative you are allowed to continue to your destination but still expected to quarantine when you arrive.
The people on the flight from Qatar who tested negative are being held in hotel quarantine for 7 days, after which they will be retested and, if they test negative released to continue their journey.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
The people on the flight from Qatar who tested negative are being held in hotel quarantine for 7 days, after which they will be retested and, if they test negative released to continue their journey.
Are travelers who are forced to quarantine upon arrival to their destination expected to pay for their hotel room? I assume so and suppose you must budget it into the cost of the trip.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
Are travelers who are forced to quarantine upon arrival to their destination expected to pay for their hotel room? I assume so and suppose you must budget it into the cost of the trip.
I would think so. It's June 2020 now and not March 2020. Things have changed. For example, German nationals and German residents have been told by their government that there will be no government sponsored or organised repatriation flights during the summer if the epidemic situation should change for the worse again and the need to return home arise, unlike in March and April when they brought hundreds if not thousands of travellers home from Spain and elsewhere.
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
Are travelers who are forced to quarantine upon arrival to their destination expected to pay for their hotel room? I assume so and suppose you must budget it into the cost of the trip.
Not in Greece. The government pays for one night in a hotel for everyone while they wait for their test results. Usually those who test negative are permitted to continue their journey the next day and complete their quarantine at their destination. Those who test positive are kept in the quarantine hotel for 14 days at the government's expense.
Once Greece reopens for tourism on 15th June, the quarantine will be lifted for countries approved for tourism.
There will still be some random (I expect it won't really be random) testing.
Anyone required to stay in official quarantine accommodation will be funded by the government.
 

JohnLloyd

Author of "Go Your Own Way"
Camino(s) past & future
Francés - SJPDP to SdC - Autumn 2018
Portugués - Porto to SdC - Spring 2019
Francés again - ASAP
International travel and international flights are one thing. As to the postcode and just based on my own feelings: people who have not been going further than their own postcode for twelve weeks - for two and a half months !!! - are raring to go somewhere beyond it. I myself am counting the hours: it's 68 hours for me and then I plan to get into my car, drive beyond my postcode area and go for a longish day walk. It could be even called a Camino walk. :cool:

I think I've ended up a bit like Brooks from "The Shawshank Redemption", institutionalised and unable to understand the world into which he's been released.

Brooks-out-of-jail.jpg
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
I think I've ended up a bit like Brooks from "The Shawshank Redemption", institutionalised and unable to understand the world into which he's been released.
:). The first few times I ventured out further into my surroundings than going for a walk around the block so to speak it felt like going into a war like enemy territory and that I had to be extremely careful.

Surprisingly, it all looked mostly harmless and now I am secure in the knowledge that I will be alright as long as I know where my towel face mask is. 🤭
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Something new from Europa Press: Protocolo de normas y medidas sanitarias para los peregrinos del Camino de Santiago - Guidelines established by the Asociación de Municipios del Camino de Santiago (AMCS) for pilgrims and albergues.

You can read the guidelines here: https://www.amcsantiago.com/download/8109/

A list of the 81 municipalities who are members of the association is here: https://www.amcsantiago.com/municipios/
Thanks, Kathar1na, for all the research you often do to help provide answers to many questions and comments on a variety of threads such as this.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
On Monday, the following areas will [be in] Phase 3: Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Basque Country, La Rioja, Navarre, Aragon, Extremadura, Andalusia, Murcia, the Balearic islands of Mallorca, Menorca and Ibiza, and the Canary islands of Tenerife, Gran Canaria, La Palma, Lanzarote and Fuerteventura ... and the Catalan healthcare areas of Alt Pirineu i Aran, Terres de l’Ebre and Camp de Tarragona, and the provinces of Cuenca and Guadalajara in Castilla-La Mancha.


Under Phase 3 – which is the last step before “the new normality” – sidewalk cafes can open at 75% capacity, bars can reopen with safe distancing measures in place, and social gatherings of up to 20 people are allowed.

Most crucially, the central government will let regional authorities take control of the deescalation process and decide how long this last period should last. Given the possibility of some regions deciding to end Phase 3 and enter the new normality before the state of alarm officially ends on June 21, Health Minister Illa said that under Phase 3, regions may decide when the state of alarm ends.

“The regional leaders will be the ones who make decisions in Phase 3 in their territory and who can request to enter the new normality,” added Finance Minister and government spokesperson María Jesús Montero at the government press conference.


Madrid, Barcelona, Lleida, and most of Castilla y Léon are moving to or remaining in Phase 2, but not El Bierzo, still in Phase 1.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Hesitating slightly since yesterday to say this, but the French Government's medical advisory bureau has stated that they don't believe a second general lockdown would be necessary in the event of a second wave. (they did not exclude local ones)

That is not an absolute statement that there won't be another lockdown, but it's still fairly indicative that in France at least this whole thing is ending.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
Something else that is new but hasn't seen the day of light yet:

The regional government of Galicia is working on the development of technological platforms that make it easier to make reservations in the pilgrim albergues, informing pilgrims at all times of the available places, an option that did not exist until now.

The "new normal" might change the nature of some of our forum discussions. 🤭
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
The thought had occurred to me that now must be a great time to walk the Camino Francés. You will have it largely to yourselves. So it was no surprise when I read this morning that people are already lining up to walk it. Better even, they say they are going to walk it for me .... 🤔.
 

Lirsy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo, Norte, Francés, Volunteer Hospitalero.
The thought had occurred to me that now must be a great time to walk the Camino Francés.

I think this is the unique opportunity to walk the CF in the summer and it is not crowded.

I have always thought of CF as a winter camino. let´s say something to start between mid-November and mid-April. I am now planning to start on July 15. All stages in La Meseta have to be really hot! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
Is the Pilgrims Office in Santiago open again? Their website seems to record arrivals again. Note that the EN version of the website stopped showing arrival numbers many months ago so if you see 0 pilgrims there it has no meaning. They've also updated their statistics to include the figures for March 2020.

PO SdC.jpg
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
But how? Until the 7th of June no one was allowed to travel outside of their province. So if these pilgrims walked there legally they must have been from the province of A Coruña and they could only have walked the Inglés to qualify for a Compostela...
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
From today on, if you live in Galicia you could walk all the way from O Cebreiro to Santiago. Must be an interesting experience indeed.
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
But how? Until the 7th of June no one was allowed to travel outside of their province. So if these pilgrims walked there legally they must have been from the province of A Coruña and they could only have walked the Inglés to qualify for a Compostela...
Presumably if you had completed your Camino before lockdown but not collected your Compostela, you could collect it now.
 

Isca-camigo

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Various ones.
A few pilgrims have been housed in Monte de Gozo, maybe they took the opportunity to wander into town to get their Compostela.
 

Isca-camigo

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Various ones.
I have just seen a post elsewhere that said the 1st person to collect the Compostela yesterday had started in Ferrol on the Camino Ingles.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
Ah, an official announcement from the regional government of Galicia: the Pilgrims Office in Santiago will officially open on 1 July 2020. So I guess they have started handing out Compostelas but they are not handed over in face to face contact.

Also official: The public pilgrim albergues that are owned by the regional government of Galicia - a total of about 70 albergues I think - will be gradually opened from 1 July 2020 onwards, depending on the offer of total accommodation beds in the albergues of each municipality. This is a measure suggested by the private accommodation sector that was jointly analysed by the different parties involved and which achieved a high degree of consensus due to its positive effect on local economies (see Google Translated text here).

So I take this to mean that they put the economic wellbeing of their inhabitants above the desire of the pilgrim for the cheapest public accommodation. Fair enough, I'd say. ☺
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
The Galician TV has spotted their first peregrino and they interviewed him near Melide. In Spanish, no subtitles. What I can make out: some people applauded him, some offered him a beer, some were not so enthusiastic but I don't quite get what he says there. He thinks that many Spanish pilgrims will come during the summer months, and if nothing happens, the foreign pilgrims will return in September and October. He always has his face mask and his gel at hand - and he pulls them out of his pockets to show; he practices social distancing and is careful - just like in daily life, he says.

 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
The Galician TV has spotted their first peregrino and they interviewed him near Melide. In Spanish, no subtitles. What I can make out: some people applauded him, some offered him a beer, some were not so enthusiastic but I don't quite get what he says there. He thinks that many Spanish pilgrims will come during the summer months, and if nothing happens, the foreign pilgrims will return in September and October. He always has his face mask and his gel at hand - and he pulls them out of his pockets to show; he practices social distancing and is careful - just like in daily life, he says.

This is some hopeful news at least!
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
But how? Until the 7th of June no one was allowed to travel outside of their province. So if these pilgrims walked there legally they must have been from the province of A Coruña and they could only have walked the Inglés to qualify for a Compostela...

... or from Fisterra/Muxia.

Or they may have been residents of A Coruña blocked elsewhere who were able to cross some provincial lines to make their way back home, which has been possible for some time now. Or etc. ...
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
I am posting this here and not in the open albergues/Camino Frances thread as it is quite general but on the other hand it is reasonably official. The regional government of Navarra (= beginning of the Camino Frances, from Roncesvalles via Pamplona to Viana, plus Camino Aragones) has contacted 80 albergues who have shared their "uncertainty" about opening in the coming months. The majority of the albergues that are managed by public and religious entities will not open, they said, and the private albergues will do so with half their beds available in order to comply with the new safety and health measures.

Navarra counts about 60,000 pilgrims annually with a share of about 70% from abroad. The summer months are "low season" in Navarra as far as camino pilgrims are concerned.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Here's the map of the Spanish desescalada from Monday 15th June onwards :



The whole of Galicia is moving into the "new normal" (I do dislike this phrase) whereas all of the Francès and the other northerly routes are shifting to Phase 3.

I do not know if this means that any "new normal" International Travel to Galicia will be possible before elsewhere in Spain, or even just from Portugal over the land border. ??? Whatever else, as far as just the walking is concerned, the from anywhere in Galicia to Compostela Caminos are opening on Monday !!! (my guess is that the Pilgrim Office in Santiago will advance its planned opening date of 1st July to whichever day next week -- even if that means just one person sitting bored for hours to deal with 0-3 pilgrims a day ; the Spanish plan for this "new normal" does mean opening everything up again, just with some extra added face masks and distancing precautions)

Ultreia e Sus Eia !!!
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
On Monday (at midnight on Sunday to Monday), France is opening its international borders to all EU countries plus Andorra, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Norway, San Marino, Swizerland, and Vatican City State -- with the exception of Spain, where the border will remain closed until at least 21st June ; and the few people coming from Spain to France, with some exceptions such as food delivery lorry drivers, airway & railway personnel etc, will have to undertake a 14-day quarantine on arrival.

People can freely enter France from the UK, but they will have to undertake a 14-day quarantine on arrival.

France's other international borders will start reopening on a case-by-case basis from 1st July onwards.
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
So far the first day that foreign tourists will be allowed in Spain is still the 1st of July. Although there has been a lot of pressure from the EU to open earlier, the Spanish government sticks to July 1st until now.

The only exceptions so far will be so called 'pilot projects'. The one between the Balearic Islands and Germany is confirmed: from Monday on German tourists (with a maximum of 10.900 if I recall well) will be allowed to fly to the Balearic Islands. Other autonomous regions can suggest similar pilot projects.

As far as I know Galicia has no plans in that direction. Until further notice the border with Portugal will be closed until the 1st of July and foreign tourists won't be allowed to fly to Galicia any earlier.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
I wonder whether I am the only person who is getting so bored with the minutiae of when who can cross which border in which direction under which circumstances that they have decided to stay put for the next two weeks and just wait until the calendar tells them that it is July 2020. 😂

I listened to the news in the car radio yesterday with all the details about this and just had enough of it. And that was just the news of one national radio in one EU country for their nationals and residents ... one country, apparently, isn't going to take us at all yet but will take people from other EU countries, and one border that shall remain unnamed is opened (meaning: end of regular border controls) at midnight from Sunday to Monday in one direction and by the end of midnight from Monday to Tuesday in the other direction. 😂
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and back (no name; Tours; Francés; sea; no name)
This may interest some of you from further away. I remember that there was a question about it in March. I was surprised when I learnt about it. The internal borders of the Schengen area are known as the "Green border". These are the virtual lines between the official border crossing points. The Green border is not patrolled in general. I was surprised to read that even some hiking trails between Germany, Switzerland and Austria had been cordoned off, that there had been occasional checks by police officers or even military personnel (in some countries) and occasional heavy fines of a few hundred euros for hikers or Sunday walkers who had ventured into territory on the other side - obviously sometimes without even noticing it.

Not at all what we are used to!

Wanderer.jpg

Source: https://www.sn.at/salzburg/chronik/...50-euro-bussgeld-bei-grenzuebertritt-87117307
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Spain is to reopen its international borders with the EU & Schengen countries on June 21st, except Portugal on July 1st.

Travel from other countries will be possible from July 1st on a case by case basis as determined by public health questions. The 14 day quarantines will also be ending on June 21st.
 
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