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COVID COVID-19: Corona virus discussion (ROUND 7)

Diane Borden

Member
Camino(s) past & future
July/August 2017 - Astorga to Finesterre
July/August 2020 - SJPP to Santiago
July 21st or June 21st? For the ending of quarantines?
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Catalonia unexpectedly shifted into Phase 3 last night -- which will be in place all of today, only ; as tomorrow the whole Region will shift into the "new normal" !!
 

Diane Borden

Member
Camino(s) past & future
July/August 2017 - Astorga to Finesterre
July/August 2020 - SJPP to Santiago

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
The Basque Country and Cantabria have moved into the "new normal" ; alongside Catalonia's own move, and Galicia's already "new normal" status.
 

Lirsy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo, Norte, Francés, Volunteer Hospitalero.
Tonight, at midnight, all Caminos will be open with the only exception of the Camino Portuguese.
The border with France will be open, all pilgrims from the Schengen countries will be able to start the Camino without any type of quarantine. I'm not sure about travels from the UK, but I think the quarantine will remain until the end of June.

Buen Camino!!
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
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Spain has announced that travelers from the UK will not be required to go into quarantine. :cool:

The borders are officially opening at midnight between Sunday and Monday, but in practice Monday will be a bit of a transitional day at the land borders, and Tuesday is the first full free open borders day.
 

Rich1

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (5/15)
Frances & Muxia (2016-18)
Camino from Madrid (9/18)
Frances to Burgos (9/19)
TBC
Spain has announced that travelers from the UK will not be required to go into quarantine. :cool:

The borders are officially opening at midnight between Sunday and Monday, but in practice Monday will be a bit of a transitional day at the land borders, and Tuesday is the first full free open borders day.
Yes, I heard this on the new yesterday.
It's good news I think. Much as I have reservations about traveling in the current climate I need some camino time - some time to reflect, refresh and replenish. Some peace.
Yes, the Camino will be different going forwards - but life, the world constantly changes
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
A short "food for thought" article in El Pais: Cosas inconcebibles que ya son normales or as Google translated version Inconceivable things that are already normal. A lot of it may resonate with people who lived in similar lockdown conditions during the last few months as people in Spain did. Below is a list of these things, with some additional quotes from the article. The comment about tourists may also apply to pilgrims in Camino areas with high frequentation where we often make the economic argument for our presence.
  • The mask
  • Do not touch
  • Social distancing
  • Telestuff (teleworking, telemeeting, teledating, teleschooling)
  • Not interacting with people, and interacting with people we didn't interact with
  • The friendly city
  • The disappearance of tourists. It restores the town to its inhabitants. We live better without tourists, but we cannot live without them. It is a contradiction that has been put on the table and also awaits an answer.
  • Public health
  • Education
  • Nursing homes are a business and we didn't know about it. The major companies who manage nursing homes for the elderly are in the hands of foreign investment funds. In recent years it had attracted venture capital: its profit margin is between 20% and 25%.
  • We are more aware of how our globalized world works.
  • Minimum income
  • The autonomous communities
  • Nobody mentioned Catalonia
  • Spending less
  • Going about without cash
  • Conspiracy theories
  • The fragility. Anything can stop or end all of a sudden.
  • Lockdown. If there is something that we now know, it is that you can be in the house for two months, we have already done it. If we have to shut ourselves up again we will not be scared.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
And the border between France and Spain is truly open again! This Sunday morning, long queues formed outside of tobacco shops as cigarettes are cheaper in Spain than in France and customs officers checked cars to make sure that nobody was bringing more than the legally allowed quantities into France.

Open borders.jpg
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
The French border should technically have been closed yesterday for that sort of thing, as it was supposed to open from the French POV at midnight between Sunday and today (i.e. it's been officially open on both sides for just over three hours as I write this).

But well, the French have been able to cross back home over such land borders for a few weeks now, and Spain is letting people in, sooo ...

Bottom line though : the Camino is open !! :cool:
 

Scott007

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, Camino primitive,
Valença do Minho- Santiago-Muxia-Fisterra
Some good news filtering through, So the Camino Francés is open for UK travellers from July?
 

Lirsy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo, Norte, Francés, Volunteer Hospitalero.
It is already open 😁
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
The UK is set to mostly end its own lockdown on July 4th -- and whilst quarantine measures will continue for incoming travelers to the UK, reciprocal so-called "air corridors" are to be set in place to allow those coming in from certain countries, most notably from our POV France, Italy, and Spain, to avoid those lockdowns -- France has a policy of imposing and lifting quarantines reciprocally, so that means UK/France travel will be quarantine free, and neither Spain nor Italy impose a quarantine on any European travelers (EU plus EEA plus UK plus certain other non-EU countries like Vatican City, Monaco, etc).
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Many people will have heard this already, I heard it for the first time today: Avoid the three C's:

CCC = closed spaces, crowded places and close contact​
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Watch out for it, this is going to hit your news any minute now: the first results of an extensive study by the virology section of Innsbruck University where they studied Coronavirus-19 antibodies in the blood serum of a very high percentage of the population of Ischgl. Ischgl was a coronavirus cluster in March 2020 and the virus was carried by skiing holiday makers from there throughout Austria and to Bavaria and beyond, as far as Norway and Iceland and other countries where Ischgl in Austria is a popular winter holiday destination.

First results show that over 40% carry Coronavirus antibodies. Only 15% had ever received confirmation that they were or had been infected, so this implies that 85% did not know or realise that they were carriers! No "herd immunity" was achieved. Social distancing, quarantine and good hygienic practice are credited with getting the outbreak in Ischgl under control.

To put it in numbers:
  • Ischgl's population is around 1600 inhabitants.
  • Around 1500 inhabitants participated in the study and donated a blood sample (at the end of April).
  • Around 600 have antibodies, according to the results presented today. There is a small error rate of around 2%, it will be checked with a different test method during the coming week.
  • Of the 600 who tested positive on antibodies, ie who had been infected by the coronavirus, only 90 had received an earlier diagnosis that confirmed their infection. 510 did not know (or did not know for certain) that they carried the virus.
Please feel free to check these numbers. I had to calculate them on the back of an old envelope and I still can't quite believe it. I'd love to be proven wrong actually.

Sources (all in German):
FAZ article
Austrian TV/Radio article
SARS-CoV-2-Studie in Ischgl - Dr Dorothee van Laer, virologist, Innsbruck University
PR info about study by Innsbruck University
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
I'd love to be proven wrong actually.
This is confirmation that people who are not showing overt symptoms can spread the disease. We could all be super spreaders, walking from village to village. For those who know first-hand what this virus can do, it's a horrifying thought.
:(
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
This is confirmation that people who are not showing overt symptoms can spread the disease. We could all be super spreaders, walking from village to village. For those who know first-hand what this virus can do, it's a horrifying thought.
:(
Given the proportion of new cases in Greece who are asymptomatic, I had always thought it unlikely they were all directly infected by symptomatic cases.
In one day 500 people in a refugee camp were tested and 150 asymptomatic cases were discovered. Because Greece has had so few cases they have been doing extensive contact tracing and testing of people with no symptoms.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Kathar1na, it does seem that there is a significant % of the population with a cross-resistance from previous infections with other coronaviruses -- and thing is, people in that situation simply do not develop antibodies, despite not getting the disease.

It is unadvisable from that basis to speculate.
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
An announcement has been made in Alberta today by the medical officer of health that all Albertans, even those who have no symptoms and no known contact with someone with the virus, are encouraged to get tested. To make this easier for them (us), staff at twenty community pharmacies, the number to be expanded later, are to be given training and supplies to test anyone who volunteers. This action is presented by Dr Hinshaw, the medical officer of health for Alberta, as a way of getting better informed as to how the virus is being spread in the community. If this service comes to a pharmacy near me, I shall volunteer to be tested.
 

C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
I am not arguing or giving opinions - I am just confused.
I'd love to be proven wrong actually.
After reading your analysis, I am not sure what conclusion you are referring to. Is it what VN says?...
This is confirmation that people who are not showing overt symptoms can spread the disease.
I agree that is an apparent conclusion, but it could be a good thing in that many people have antibodies (and contribute to potential herd immunity) without knowing they'd had it, and a bad thing in terms of asymptomatic transmission. It is important to understand both.
there is a significant % of the population with a cross-resistance from previous infections with other coronaviruses -- and thing is, people in that situation simply do not develop antibodies, despite not getting the disease. It is unadvisable from that basis to speculate.
This is a theory that I haven't heard before, and I'm not sure how it relates to the study Kathar1ina refers to.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
This is a theory that I haven't heard before, and I'm not sure how it relates to the study Kathar1ina refers to.
It relates to herd immunity, in that a lower % of the population with antibodies is sufficient to achieve it than was originally thought.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
what conclusion you are referring to
When I looked at the numbers - 600 persons tested positive on antibodies, which means that they had been infected, and of those only 90 persons had been confirmed as infected while they carried the virus versus 510 infected persons without such a confirmation by a PCR test while they had the virus, I thought I must have made a calculation mistake because 510:90 is surprisingly high. Since then, I've also watched an hour long press conference and presentation given by the Innsbruck researchers/virologists and thought a bit more about it all.

Ischgl was a Covid-19 hotspot. Their infection rates do not reflect the current situation in a larger population. The study says nothing about how infectious a person is, whether in a symptomatic, asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic state. The leading researcher was asked whether the people who did not get a PCR test but noticed mild symptoms (like a scratchy throat for a day or two) thought that they had the disease but that question was not addressed in the study. The researchers used the term herd immunity both in their PR text and the press conference and I assume that they refer to the standard theoretical number of 60-70% of a population. In Ischgl, 40% of the population got infected sometime between the second half of February and the month of April. The study didn't test immunity. It is assumed that the virus was circulating uncontrolled and unknown since the second half of February. The whole town was put in quarantine about a month later. The researcher pointed out that not every person infects 2-3 other persons; one person may infect nobody at all while another person can infect 10 other persons for example. Or even many more.

One wonders of course: what does this mean for me? We don't know everything about disease and transmission but we now know a lot more than 3 or 4 months ago. We know more about how to protect ourselves and how to break transmission chains, both individually and through public health measures.

The researcher was asked for advice for the future. While she pointed out that it is not her job to give advice because scientists just present data, she did say (I'm quoting from memory) that one should avoid being together with many others in closed spaces with low ceilings (she obviously referred to a smaller cluster in a German town that had been in the news earlier) and that there should be testing, testing, testing, and not only testing of first contacts but also of secondary contacts and that all these people should be found quickly and isolated immediately when an infection is suspected.

Personally, I am always concerned that I may get and transmit the virus unknowingly. I also wonder how much I can trust other people, especially people I don't know well or at all, to be as diligent and conscientious about it all as I believe to be 🤔😎. That is now the main thought that keeps me from travelling and meeting others.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
The list of countries that one will be able to travel into the EU from, in addition to EU + Schengen travel area + UK, from 1st July onwards is as follows :

Australia, Canada, South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Rwanda, Thailand, Uruguay, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Georgia, Montenegro, Serbia.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Traces of the Covid19 virus have been found in samples of Barcelona sewage water that were gathered in March 2019. (!!!)
 

hieudovan

DoVanHieu
Camino(s) past & future
CF (2012), VdLP (2014), CF (2017), Rota Vincentina (2018), Caminho Portugues (2019), Le Puy (2020)
My plan was to begin walking from Saint Jean Pied de Port on July 14th. While I've been hopeful, I've been holding this all so loosely. I'll continue to hold it so, as I know things can change quickly, but this does seem to side favorably for my summer Camino - right?
Diane, looks like your plan will be on hold as the US, along with Brazil and Russia, are among countries being considered to NOT be able to travel to the EU. I am also from the US and had planned to walk the Le Puy route in the fall. Given the US COVID-19 trend, I am not hopeful. Buen camino.
 

Diane Borden

Member
Camino(s) past & future
July/August 2017 - Astorga to Finesterre
July/August 2020 - SJPP to Santiago
Diane, looks like your plan will be on hold as the US, along with Brazil and Russia, are among countries being considered to NOT be able to travel to the EU. I am also from the US and had planned to walk the Le Puy route in the fall. Given the US COVID-19 trend, I am not hopeful. Buen camino.
I know. :-( SOOOOO sad.
 

Peter Fransiscus

Be a Rainbow in someone else's cloud.
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
Draft List of Countries Permitted to Enter EU When Borders Reopen on July 1

June 27, 2020

https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.schengenvisainfo.com%2Fnews%2Fdraft-list-of-countries-permitted-to-enter-eu-when-borders-reopen-on-july-1%2F
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https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/draft-list-of-countries-permitted-to-enter-eu-when-borders-reopen-on-july-1/#




The citizens of 54 world countries will benefit from the reopening of the European Union external borders, which is expected to happen by the beginning of July.
According to sources of Euronews, EU officials failed to agree on a common list of the countries that would definitely be banned from entering the block upon the border reopening but managed to create a list of the countries with a better epidemiological situation, the citizens of which will be able to enter Europe by the end of next week.
The same sources have also confirmed that citizens of Brazil, Qatar, the US and Russia will only be able to enter Europe at a later date when the epidemiological situation in these countries improves.
Nationals of the following countries are listed in this draft list:
  1. Albania
  2. Algeria
  3. Andorra
  4. Angola
  5. Australia
  6. Bahamas
  7. Bhutan
  8. Bosnia and Herzegovina
  9. Canada
  10. China
  11. Costa Rica
  12. Cuba
  13. Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
  14. Dominica
  15. Egypt
  16. Ethiopia
  17. Georgia
  18. Guyana
  19. India
  20. Indonesia
  21. Jamaica
  22. Japan
  23. Kazakhstan
  24. Kosovo
  25. Lebanon
  26. Mauritius
  27. Monaco
  28. Mongolia
  29. Montenegro
  30. Morocco
  31. Mozambique
  32. Myanmar
  33. Namibia
  34. New Zealand
  35. Nicaragua
  36. Palau
  37. Paraguay
  38. Rwanda
  39. Saint Lucia
  40. Serbia
  41. South Korea
  42. Tajikistan
  43. Thailand
  44. Tunisia
  45. Turkey
  46. Turkmenistan
  47. Uganda
  48. Ukraine
  49. Uruguay
  50. Uzbekistan
  51. Vatican City
  52. Venezuela
  53. Vietnam
  54. Zambia
The European Union has an internal process to determine from which countries it would be safe to accept travellers,” EU Commission spokesman Eric Mamer said last Thursday, adding that its decisions are “based on health criteria.”
On June 11, the Commission presented its recommendation on the reopening of internal Schengen borders on June 15, so that Europeans can travel within the borderless area freely, just as they did pre-pandemic.
At the same time, the Commission recommended that the Member States should start allowing third-country nationals to enter the EU starting from July 1, gradually and partially, based on the epidemiological situation in each third-country.
The Commission recommended the following objective criteria for the Member States, when drafting the list of countries, the citizens of which may visit the EU after July 1:
  • epidemiological situation and coronavirus response in that country,
  • the ability to apply containment measures during travel, an
  • whether or not that country has lifted travel restrictions towards the EU.
Based on these conditions, the Commission recommended that the nationals of the six Western Balkan countries should be the first to benefit from the abolishment of travel restrictions, all of which are in the above list.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
As far as the list of countries goes, Politico.eu as well as other main newspapers updated their article this Sunday evening.

Consultations will continue over the weekend [ok, the weekend is nearly over now], a second diplomat said, adding that from Monday [that's 12 hours from the time of writing this], EU member states will be asked to give their consent in writing [that's one of their standard procedures of agreeing to a proposal and they have 24 hours or something like this for the procedure to come to an end], with a qualified majority necessary to adopt the criteria.
And:

Washington is in talks with European capitals and the EU on how to reopen busy transatlantic routes.

Let's just wait until an official list is actually agreed upon and actually announced ...
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Madrid, Jun 29 (AP) Spain's foreign minister says that the European Union is putting together a list of 15 countries that are not bloc members and whose nationals will be allowed to visit from Wednesday [1 July 2020]. The final list will be announced later on Monday or Tuesday morning [30 June 2020], Arancha González Laya told Spain's Cadena SER radio.

The suspense ...!!! 🙃

And the deciding factor is of course not nationality but territory.
 

Peter Fransiscus

Be a Rainbow in someone else's cloud.
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
The EU has named 14 countries whose citizens are deemed "safe" to be let in from 1 July, despite the pandemic - but the US, Brazil and China are excluded.

Those named include Australia, Canada, Japan, Morocco and South Korea.

The EU is ready to add China if the Chinese government offers a reciprocal deal for EU travellers, diplomats say.

Many border controls have been lifted for EU citizens travelling inside the bloc. Rules for UK travellers are part of the current Brexit negotiations.

But UK nationals are still to be treated in the same way as EU citizens until the end of the Brexit transition period on 31 December, the EU Commission says.

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So during this period UK nationals and their family members are exempt from the EU's temporary travel restriction.

On the current "safe" list, still likely to be amended, are Algeria, Australia, Canada, Georgia, Japan, Montenegro, Morocco, New Zealand, Rwanda, Serbia, South Korea, Thailand, Tunisia and Uruguay.

EU nations in the 26-member Schengen zone normally allow passport-free border crossings for EU citizens, but national authorities have reimposed restrictions in this crisis.

The UK is currently negotiating temporary "air bridges" with several EU member states, so that coronavirus does not totally block summer holidays - the busiest season in Europe for tourism, which employs millions of people.

The EU procedure to formalise the list, and criteria by which countries are judged safe or not, are to be finalised by midday on Tuesday.

A qualified majority of EU countries - at least 55% of the EU countries, representing 65% of the EU population - have signed off on list.

There were splits between those such as Spain - wanting the boost of tourism, but preferring to play safe because they have been hit so hard by Covid-19 - and others like Greece and Portugal, which depend on tourism but are less scarred by the virus.

Presentational grey line
Analysis box by Katya Adler, Europe editor

You'd think it'd be quite straightforward, deciding which non-EU countries to consider "safe". But it's been a tortuous, divisive process, mixing politics and economics, as well as public health.

Countries like Germany and Spain, horrified by the devastation of Covid-19, wanted to play it safe.

They pushed to have a short list of countries with low infection rates, a good health service and reliable health data.

But Greece and Portugal had other ideas. Anxious to boost their post-lockdown, flagging economies with tourism, and less scarred by widespread infection at the height of the pandemic, they wanted as long a list as possible.

Then came France, insisting on reciprocity. If a non-EU country was barring flights from the bloc, argued Paris, they shouldn't appear on the list.

And finally: diplomatic considerations. How awkward for the EU to include some countries but not others. Thumbs up to visitors from Canada, Japan and China from 1 July - if Beijing allows EU visitors entry - but not travellers from the US.

After days of haggling, the final list is an attempted compromise. Much metaphorical sweat, blood and tears for a list that is advisory only, open to exceptions and will be regularly tweaked and updated.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
The pilgrims office in SJPP opened yesterday (29 June). They say on FB that 46 pilgrims came to their office and were registered in their statistics: mostly French and some Europeans; about a dozen left for the Camino Frances, all the others had walked on the paths in France.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
And, finally, today's official press release published by the Council of the EU and the official text with the official list of the 15 countries for whom the ban on non-essential travel into the EU will end. Canada, New Zealand and Australia are in and the USA and South Africa are out.

It concerns travellers who are not EU nationals or who don't have the right to long-term residency in the EU. A traveller's esidence in a non-EU country should be the determining factor and not his or her nationality. It is merely a recommendation about what each EU country and each of the other Schengen countries should do (I guess they will follow the recommendation but it was apparently a tortuous decision-making process as some countries wanted to go even further and others not even that far); any EU country may lift the current restriction only progressively. Ireland is not subject to all this and Denmark may decide whether they want to take part or not. The list of countries should be regularly reviewed and updated to include more countries or remove some already on the list.

And: Travel restrictions may be totally or partially lifted or reintroduced for a specific third [= non-EU] country already [on the list], according to changes in some of the conditions set out [in the recommendation] and, as a consequence, in the assessment of the epidemiological situation. Rapid decision-making should be applied in case the situation in a third country worsens quickly.
 
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biarritzdon

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF11, CF12, CP13, CF14, CA15, S.Anton15, CF&CI15
Ditch Pig16, CF&CP17, CdN18, CM18, CF18, LePuy19
It looks like it almost official. The EU will be banning American travelers when they open the borders on 1 July. Sadly since most Americans don't have passports there will be no one protesting, the only thing they are protesting about here is having to wear masks.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
The EU will be banning American travelers when they open the borders on 1 July.
The EU is banning travellers from the USA and from about 160 other countries ... looks like the USA is not particularly unique 🙃. Plus, of course, I think the USA is still banning European travellers?
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJPD to Burgos
2017 Leon to Santiago
Pamplona to Santiago Mar. 2018
Burgos - SCDC (Oct 18)
As an American, may I express that I believe, the decision to exclude US citizens from entering the EU is a prudent decision right now. This is not a politcal statement! I live in PA, and although it is now doing better Than it was in late April, we cannot get tested unless you are showing significant symptoms. Contact tracing is lacking in many parts of the country. The number of cases is rising in the majority of states, and while we would all like to be on the Camino, without a system in place to ensure we are not spreading the virsus, we need to stay home!
 
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P Rat

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino VDLP/Sanábres April 2019
Camino Mozárabe October 2020
The list of countries that one will be able to travel into the EU from, in addition to EU + Schengen travel area + UK, from 1st July onwards is as follows :

Australia, Canada, South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Rwanda, Thailand, Uruguay, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Georgia, Montenegro, Serbia.
Good news but for the fact Australians are currently not allowed to travel outside of Australia without having a very good reason. (Still correct?)
 

P Rat

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino VDLP/Sanábres April 2019
Camino Mozárabe October 2020
While the general feeling of euphoria is understandable, I like to say I received a newsletter a few weeks ago from the Australian Friends of the Camino. In it was a letter of an inhabitant of a small Spanish village along one of the Caminos. (not important but I think it was along the Frances) This person pointed out that while pilgrims do bring economic benefits, the population in smaller villages were very weary of us coming through. They have a large older population and feel it is still very risky. I looked for the newsletter but couldn't find it again, otherwise I would have attached it. Maybe some other Aussie has seen it?

My point is, fellow pilgrims, if you feel the urge to go (who doesn't) please be very careful and mindful of not only your own safety but also that of the people along the way. At least Ivar has cool face masks :) I'm not judging, just worried we may have a false sense of safety because we're allowed in...

I personally feel the opening of borders is much more for an economic benefit, and if it wasn't for that we wouldn't be allowed to come. As the WHO pointed out, this pandemic is only just gaining momentum.

Buen Camino! Patty
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Good news but for the fact Australians are currently not allowed to travel outside of Australia without having a very good reason. (Still correct?)
Whether the EU lets people from Australia come here is independent of whether Australia will let Australians travel abroad, but thank you for the clarification.

In practice it may be that nationals of these European countries who got themselves stuck in Australia may be able to return home, even if Australians are still locked in ?

I'm reminded somewhat of Italy reopening its borders on 8th June, even though many European countries did not allow people to travel there --- in practice somewhere like France was letting people go to Italy, but only letting French nationals cross in the other direction, but Switzerland kept its border to Italy closed 'til the 16th.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
A king, two prime ministers and a president at a ceremony to mark today's reopening of the Spanish-Portuguese land border. Maybe that's a message that merits to be spread to other parts of our world: government leaders and kings and queens do wear face masks. 🤭 😎

Face masks.jpg
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
"Avoid touching the hospitalero" ☺ - the municipal albergue of Logroño opens today, 1 July 2020. BTW, this albergue was used as a shelter for homeless people during the lockdown.

Hospitalero Logroño.jpg
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
"Avoid touching the hospitalero" ☺ - the municipal albergue of Logroño opens today, 1 July 2020. BTW, this albergue was used as a shelter for homeless people during the lockdown.
🙂 I’m trying to recall how often I’ve touched an hospitalero....
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
It’s very kind of the EU to include Canada in the list of welcome nations. Warms the cockles of my heart.

Sadly, we are still advised to not travel, which means no insurance coverage, and our borders remain essentially closed to all non-essential travel. We have chairs propped up against the doors...

Happy Canada Day to my fellow Canucks! 🇨🇦
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
There is nothing about kindness in the decision about which countries to include or exclude at this time, nor should there be!
You are correct, of course. I’ve been reading excessive amounts of Regency era novels, in which hyperbolic expressions of politeness abound. I was caught up in my gladness to be inching towards another camino.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
A king, two prime ministers and a president at a ceremony to mark today's reopening of the Spanish-Portuguese land border. Maybe that's a message that merits to be spread to other parts of our world: government leaders and kings and queens do wear face masks. 🤭 😎

View attachment 77986
A kindly political gesture that's been planned over nearly a month, and whilst the Way between Badajoz and Elvas is a very tertiary one from our silly Pilgrim points of view, it's a more important one than might appear at first glance as not only is each town historically and culturally attached to each other country (many in Elvas are "Spanish" ; many in Badajoz are "Portuguese"), which created some local conflicts during the 20th Century ; but crossing the border between those two towns is probably the most sensible and most culturally meaningful route for those Pilgrims starting northwards along the Via de la Plata from the South Coast, and yet desirous of a detour via Fatima towards Compostela.

I'm still potentially contemplating crossing over there on my own future southbound Via de la Plata towards Fatima ...
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
There are some reports that either :

a) As many as twice the number of those with Covid19 antibodies may have cross-resistance from previous coronavirus infections

or :

b) Twice the number of those known to be resistant to Covid19 from antibodies may have resistance to it by either those antibodies, or by cross-resistance from previous coronavirus infections
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
El Correo Gallego has a short article today about John Rafferty who many will know under his nom de plume of Johnnie Walker. The article mentions his initiative Volveremos - Dear Way, we will return, an appeal to people from around the world to send emails to media outlets in Spain to let them know that they care for the people of Spain and the Camino and another project of walking from Saint Jean Pied de Port to Santiago this August to carry the wishes and prayers of those pilgrims who cannot come to Spain this year.

In Spanish
In English (Google Translation)
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
People travelling to the UK from the following countries & territories are to be exempt, through "air corridors", from the 14-day quarantine from 10th July :

Antigua and Barbuda, Aruba, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba, Croatia, Curaçao, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominica, Faroe Islands, Fiji, Finland, France, French Polynesia, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macau, Malta, Mauritius, Monaco, Netherlands, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Réunion, San Marino, Serbia, Seychelles, South Korea, Spain, St Barthélemy, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, St Pierre and Miquelon, Switzerland, Taiwan, Trinidad and Tobago, Turkey, Vatican City, Vietnam.

Interestingly, not Gibraltar, Andorra, Portugal, Falkland Islands -- Ireland, the Channel Islands, and Mann are not mentioned as they have never been subjected to this quarantine measure. Finland and Lithuania, but not Latvia nor Estonia. Norway and Denmark, but not Sweden.

No big surprise USA isn't on the list though.
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
El Correo Gallego has a short article today about John Rafferty who many will know under his nom de plume of Johnnie Walker. The article mentions his initiative Volveremos - Dear Way, we will return, an appeal to people from around the world to send emails to media outlets in Spain to let them know that they care for the people of Spain and the Camino and another project of walking from Saint Jean Pied de Port to Santiago this August to carry the wishes and prayers of those pilgrims who cannot come to Spain this year.

In Spanish
In English (Google Translation)
Yes, @SYates posted about how to participate in this campaign

 

Vancouver Islander

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Fingers Crossed - April (2020)
It’s very kind of the EU to include Canada in the list of welcome nations. Warms the cockles of my heart.

Sadly, we are still advised to not travel, which means no insurance coverage, and our borders remain essentially closed to all non-essential travel. We have chairs propped up against the doors...

Happy Canada Day to my fellow Canucks! 🇨🇦
And, here on Vancouver Island, people are freaking out at seeing the many US license plates on vehicles. Sorry, folks, if you have to take a ferry here, it is NOT on the road up to Alaska!
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJPD to Burgos
2017 Leon to Santiago
Pamplona to Santiago Mar. 2018
Burgos - SCDC (Oct 18)
Do you have
There are some reports that either :

a) As many as twice the number of those with Covid19 antibodies may have cross-resistance from previous coronavirus infections

or :

b) Twice the number of those known to be resistant to Covid19 from antibodies may have resistance to it by either those antibodies, or by cross-resistance from previous coronavirus infections
Do you have sources for this?
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Do you have sources for this?
The UK Government officially published the list yesterday, so most British media.

For example : https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53221896

I did miss that "The 14 British Overseas Territories are also exempt", so that travel to the UK from Gibraltar and the Falklands is also exempt from quarantine starting on July 10th contrary to what I suggested yesterday.

It's still odd that Andorra isn't included, contrary to the other Western European microstates.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (own way; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Below is a screenshot from Facebook. Yesterday, 3 July 2020.

I wonder whether there is a short queue forming outside of the pilgrims office because the number of people allowed inside is limited? Around where I live, I am now used to having to wait outside: pharmacy, dentist, GP, grocery shop, DIY shop ... luckily, it doesn't rain a lot at the moment ...

Apparently, they are currently counting several dozens of pilgrims every day in SJPP ... but the numbers stayed below 100 per day so far. As far as I can make out in any case.

SJPP.jpg
 

JohnLloyd

Author of "Go Your Own Way"
Camino(s) past & future
Francés from SJPDP to SdC - Autumn 2018
Portugués from Porto to Sdc - Spring 2019
Francés again ASAP
As things stand now, if I’m coming from the UK, I can walk the Francés from SJPdP or anywhere along the route - but I can’t walk the Portugués yet.

That’s right, isn’t it?
 

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