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COVID COVID-19: Corona virus discussion (ROUND 7)

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
You may be at greater risk with type A blood?

I've heard that. I hope it's not true. My blood type is A positive. 😕
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
You may be at greater risk with type A blood?

Interesting. I had a quick look at the paper and am happy to report that my blood type is O. But on the other hand, the mosquitos seem to like me for it.
 

OzAnnie

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
'CP, Frances,Norte,Salv/prim;Le puy, Inglés, CDM, Invierno, Fin/Mux, Vdlp 2019>Táb/ Prt Levante 2020
Interesting. I had a quick look at the paper and am happy to report that my blood type is O. But on the other hand, the mosquitos seem to like me for it.
I read it through also. Blood types have always interested me for some reason. I’m O negative but I didn’t read any reference to the Rh factor included in that info.
I’m thankful that there is so much study being undertaken to search for more knowledge regarding the virus.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
You may be at greater risk with type A blood?
And lower risk with type O, yeah.

Some researchers have been suspecting this for a couple of months, but it's good that there's a more formal study supporting it.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Another day and another theory. It seems every week a new hypothesis is added concerning the current pandemic. The latest from the WHO is that the virus is more spread by wind and atmospheric conditions than was previously thought....this can come as no surprise.
Individually, we all carry out our own risk assessments depending on our particular circumstances. There is no cloak of invincibility.
I am not in the category most at risk by age or have underlying health issues .but I act as though I am ..I do this to ensure that I am doing my bit to absolutely try to protect the vulnerable and reduce this virus to minute and manageable proportions.
I have watched those that have fought this virus on the front line. My heart swells with pride and gratitude that there are such people dedicated to the cause and have stepped forward and placed themselves at risk to treat others...and all I've done is to stay at home.
Mistakes have been made (and will continue to be made). Economies and livelihoods have been ruined and this pandemic is still with us.
My biggest fear is that the virus is a seasonal one with a second more devastating spike in the winter. I hope I am wrong.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Just to add to the mix - blood type by country - though I can't see the relation e.g. see Japan
I think the distribution by ethnicity on that page is more pertinent (second table). Blood group A is more common than average among Western Europeans for instance.

But the best correlation I've found is the density ratio of urban development versus rural & wilderness

(which is NOT the same thing as population density)

That is to say that the areas (in Western Europe anyway) where the lowest % of countryside remains within the urban & suburban are the areas of most infection -- England, North East France and Germany across the Rhine, Benelux, Po Valley and Adriatic coast in Italy, broad areas around Madrid and Barcelona in Spain.

Though of course, many cities, towns, and pueblos/villages in Spain & Italy have been very densely urbanised since the Middle Ages.

But neither of these things will provide perfect correlation -- for just one example, dark-skinned people absorb vitamin D from sunlight less efficiently than fair-skinned people, giving them a cause of extra vulnerability regardless of bood type factors. And for the same reason, fair-skinned people living in locations with less sunlight will be more vulnerable.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
The latest from the WHO is that the virus is more spread by wind and atmospheric conditions than was previously thought
erm, several Health authorities started pointing that out in January.

It's a common feature of colds, flus, and flu-like disease viruses.

SARS and MERS did behave differently, and they were nowhere near as contagious as this Covid19, which spreads just as efficiently as the flu.

Covid19 very likely spreads more easily where the air is damp (and therefore in winter more easily than summer) and also where it is very dusty (some farming or sandy or windy areas, and some polluted urban areas for example).

OTOH intense summer sunlight will kill air and surface -borne coronavirus fragments about 10 times faster than a weaker winter sun (coronaviruses generally that is, not just this one).
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
erm, several Health authorities started pointing that out in January.

It's a common feature of colds, flus, and flu-like disease viruses.

SARS and MERS did behave differently, and they were nowhere near as contagious as this Covid19, which spreads just as efficiently as the flu.

Covid19 very likely spreads more easily where the air is damp (and therefore in winter more easily than summer) and also where it is very dusty (some farming or sandy or windy areas, and some polluted urban areas for example).

OTOH intense summer sunlight will kill air and surface -borne coronavirus fragments about 10 times faster than a weaker winter sun (coronaviruses generally that is, not just this one).
Yes...it is obviously prone to air transmission...but the World Health Organisation have recently stated it is prone to a longer existence and travels further than was previously thought.
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Ourense to Santiago (2019), CF: (2014, 2004, 2002, 2001). On to Fisterra, (2002, 4, 14).
Another day and another theory. It seems every week a new hypothesis is added concerning the current pandemic. The latest from the WHO is that the virus is more spread by wind and atmospheric conditions than was previously thought....this can come as no surprise.
Individually, we all carry out our own risk assessments depending on our particular circumstances. There is no cloak of invincibility.
I am not in the category most at risk by age or have underlying health issues .but I act as though I am ..I do this to ensure that I am doing my bit to absolutely try to protect the vulnerable and reduce this virus to minute and manageable proportions.
I have watched those that have fought this virus on the front line. My heart swells with pride and gratitude that there are such people dedicated to the cause and have stepped forward and placed themselves at risk to treat others...and all I've done is to stay at home.
Mistakes have been made (and will continue to be made). Economies and livelihoods have been ruined and this pandemic is still with us.
My biggest fear is that the virus is a seasonal one with a second more devastating spike in the winter. I hope I am wrong.
Um!

I am not certain it is seasonal.

In some of the hottest states in the Union, Arizona, Florida, Texas Covid hospitalization numbers and cases and positivity rates are surging.

And, this is happening during the hottest season of the year: Summer.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Another day and another theory. It seems every week a new hypothesis is added concerning the current pandemic. The latest from the WHO is that the virus is more spread by wind and atmospheric conditions than was previously thought....this can come as no surprise.
A similar theory was reported as a hypothesis in the early days of studying covid19. I recall reading that the virus could potentially travel up to 70 feet outdoors in the wind, a shock indeed. I was relieved and happy when scientists recanted what they had said about that as I love being outside in nature and especially walking on my local rails to trails. I have been enjoying that apparently false feeling of freedom and recently added in meeting friends at outdoor cafe's, thinking if I was in fresh air, no problem. It has felt good slowly trying to live my life a bit normaly again, thinking being outdoors was much better than socialising indoors. Now it seems they are back to saying what was said in the first place. Are we to conclude that it is safer to meet indoors wearing a mask? WHO knows...or is it "who knows"?
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I was relieved and happy when scientists recanted
Was there really a peer-reviewed study about outdoors transmission 🤔? I recently heard a leading virologist say that they stopped putting their research results on the so called preprint servers because their research and the results are often misunderstood or misinterpreted and criticised and appear in the news without being peer-reviewed first. Here's a long article in Wired about How to Read Covid-19 Research (and Actually Understand It). Just one article of many of this kind, I've come across a similar article just a day ago or so.

Main tips are:
  • Check the Source
  • Know the Format
  • Go for the Gold Standards
  • Beware Shocking Claims
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Was there really a peer-reviewed study about outdoors transmission 🤔? I recently heard a leading virologist say that they stopped putting their research results on the so called preprint servers because their research and the results are often misunderstood or misinterpreted and criticised and appear in the news without being peer-reviewed first. Here's a long article in Wired about How to Read Covid-19 Research (and Actually Understand It). Just one article of many of this kind, I've come across a similar article just a day ago or so.

Main tips are:
  • Check the Source
  • Know the Format
  • Go for the Gold Standards
  • Beware Shocking Claims
You are wiser than me and are amazing at doing your best to inform forum members of your research findings on many topics. All I know is that it's become a very frustrating situation with little clarity on how we can feel confident to venture outside our homes and "live" again.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
You are wiser than me and are amazing at doing your best to inform forum members of your research findings on many topics.
I am certainly not wiser than you ☺ but I like to get to the bottom of things and I am sharing way too much of my finds :rolleyes:.

A risk factor that is rarely mentioned is the fact that others may not stick to commonly accepted or recommended behaviour. I just read in the news that Italy is suspending flights to and from 13 countries (non of them on the EU list anyway) for that very reason. That risk factor worries me sometimes more than my blood group, my weight, my age, my gender, and the pills that I have agreed to take for various ailments. 😇
 
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Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
I am certainly not wiser than you ☺ but I like to get to the bottom of things and I am sharing way too much of my finds :rolleyes:. A risk factor that is rarely mentioned is the fact that others may not stick to commonly accepted or recommended behaviour. I just read in the news that Italy is suspending flights to and from 13 countries (non of them on the EU list anyway) for that very reason.
You do very well in disseminating this information. It is all we have to make a decision. Unfortunately this is a changing environment where all the factors in travelling to, and in, foreign countries carry added risks.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via Francigena 2009/11/14, Monaco-Lindau '15, Assisi-Pietralcina '17
C.F. april-may '18
?
I just read in the news that Italy is suspending flights to and from 13 countries (non of them on the EU list anyway) for that very reason. That risk factor worries me sometimes more than my blood group, my weight, my age, my gender, and the pills that I have agreed to take for various ailments. 😇
yes, that's right.😔
"Entry into Italy is forbidden to people who have stayed or transited in 13 countries in the previous 14 days (the list can be found online)"

And this cause the majority of positive cases recorded in these last few days in Italy concern foreigners returning to Italy.
In addition to a couple of Italians who have returned from those countries.

Only in my region, of the 13 cases registered yesterday, 9 were found in people who returned to Italy (especially for work).
And here I wonder if it is really impossible to act differently .. but I have no answers!
 

jpflavin1

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(10,11,17), Vasco(12), Salvador(13), CP(13), CN(14), Madrid (16), Mozarabe (18), VdlP(19)

Sean Lad

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2010 to 2019 walked total of 31 caminos
Big outbreak of Covid 19 in Pamplona and nearby
no bull run but keep running
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Um!

I am not certain it is seasonal.

In some of the hottest states in the Union, Arizona, Florida, Texas Covid hospitalization numbers and cases and positivity rates are surging.

And, this is happening during the hottest season of the year: Summer.
The strong efficiency of testing in the USA leads mechanically to a greater number of detected cases.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
I recall reading that the virus could potentially travel up to 70 feet outdoors in the wind, a shock indeed. I was relieved and happy when scientists recanted what they had said
Except that well, in certain meteorolgical conitions, it can ...

BUT : at heart, this virus is still a lot less virulent than was originally feared, for example back in January-February when not even the professional medical researchers had any idea about its dangerousness.

But you can hardly blame decision-makers in January for being unaware of data uncovered in June/July ...
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Big outbreak of Covid 19 in Pamplona and nearby
no bull run
The San Fermin Festival with the famous bull running that takes place in July was officially cancelled by the Pamplona authorities on 21 April 2020 - nearly three months ago. So that's not a huge surprise anymore.

El Pais of today lists a number of active coronavirus outbreaks in Spain. For Pamplona and surroundings I can only find reference to an outbreak "connected to a family in Pamplona that has led to five infections." I don't think they call that "big".
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
The strong efficiency of testing in the USA leads mechanically to a greater number of detected cases.
Which might lead to the conclusion that in countries where testing is not so efficient...the presence of covid is much higher than published figures.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
The strong efficiency of testing in the USA leads mechanically to a greater number of detected cases.
That's what some would lead you to believe, but there is a higher rate of positive tests, indicating that the rate of infection is indeed growing.


 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
That's what some would lead you to believe, but there is a higher rate of positive tests, indicating that the rate of infection is indeed growing.
Nicely worded 🤭.

I also recommend a look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries which has a huge table that can be sorted in all kind of ways (just click on the up/down arrows in the top row), for example number of tests/1 million people in a country. "Some" would be surprised. 🙃
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
Nicely worded 🤭.

I also recommend a look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries which has a huge table that can be sorted in all kind of ways (just click on the up/down arrows in the top row), for example number of tests/1 million people in a country. "Some" would be surprised. 🙃
Thank you, @Kathar1na. This is a wonderfully informative table. I am paying particular attention to the data per million of population, which gives the best idea of how things are going, and being handled, in particular countries. I am wondering if a look at the data from Mexico would persuade my brother to forgo his long holiday in Mexico this winter. Is this table being updated, so that I could look at it again a few months from now?
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
I am certainly not wiser than you ☺ but I like to get to the bottom of things and I am sharing way too much of my finds :rolleyes:.
A risk factor that is rarely mentioned is the fact that others may not stick to commonly accepted or recommended behaviour. I just read in the news that Italy is suspending flights to and from 13 countries (non of them on the EU list anyway) for that very reason. That risk factor worries me sometimes more than my blood group, my weight, my age, my gender, and the pills that I have agreehere, in the USA, to take for various ailments. 😇
Personally, I approach everyone outside my stay-at-home family, as if they could be infected. Then I eliminate those potential risks. For example, when I go walking outside, even in a larger state park, I keep a mask around my neck and pop it over my orifices as I get near a passerby.
I am lucky enough to have a couple of N95 masks in USA. I use one when I go into a supermarket and I use the self-checkout. Without an N95 I would not set foot in a store! N95s allow only 3percent of small droplets in - verses a regular mask which will allow as much as 50 percent of small droplets in. Still, I limit my shopping time to 10 minutes at anyone time. I am also getting a few minutes of extra sunshine a day (low Vit. D). Walking, eating healthy! Except for food shopping, walking, gardening in my own yard, we are staying home till there is a tested vaccine or reliable therapeutics.

Therefore, I am really, at least at this point, not concerned about what someone else does or does not do for my own health, but I am concerned about the Yahoos, who do not follow guidelines, that are killing others! But I am confident that those folks are not on this website😀
 
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jpflavin1

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(10,11,17), Vasco(12), Salvador(13), CP(13), CN(14), Madrid (16), Mozarabe (18), VdlP(19)
The strong efficiency of testing in the USA leads mechanically to a greater number of detected cases.

You would have to define efficiency for me. I have a friend who was tested 10 days ago, still waiting for results.

My point was that each individual state in the US has taken their own approach to addressing Covid-19. Similar to different EU countries. That said, the US is measured as one. There is also a large disparity between Urban and rural areas.
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
Thank you, @Kathar1na. This is a wonderfully informative table. I am paying particular attention to the data per million of population, which gives the best idea of how things are going, and being handled, in particular countries. I am wondering if a look at the data from Mexico would persuade my brother to forgo his long holiday in Mexico this winter. Is this table being updated, so that I could look at it again a few months from now?
It’s updated throughout the day, as numbers are reported/collected. Note that some country numbers change as the day progresses; for example, the USA number changes hourly, based on State inputs.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
You would have to define efficiency for me. I have a friend who was tested 10 days ago, still waiting for results.
My point was that each individual state in the US has taken their own approach to addressing Covid-19. Similar to different EU countries. That said, the US is measured as one. There is also a large disparity between Urban and rural areas.
The USA is doing a lot more testing now. However, certainly not enough to keep up with the COVID 19 infection. Despite improvements, the U.S. is caught in a vicious cycle with no end in sight. A lag in testing leads to more cases, which leads to the need for even more tests to finally get a handle on the pandemic. Scientists agree, USA Is not close to closing the gap in most states.


Wish it were not so!
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
News about life along the Caminos in Covid-19 times: The Spanish king and queen visited Haro and Santo Domingo de la Calzada in La Rioja today. Both towns were badly hit by Covid-19. In Santo Domingo, they paid a visit to the pilgrims albergue that can be seen in the video. The writer of this article says that the town is eager to welcome tourists and pilgrims in greater numbers. The two royals wore masks. They received "a basket with eggs from the hens of the cathedral" as an official gift. You can see where a supply of roosters and hens for the cathedral cage are kept at the pilgrims albergue.

The video gave me a warm feeling of "I was there, too" 🙂. We visited the cathedral to see the chicken in their cage and the saint’s tomb, and we enjoyed an excellent meal in the small restaurant near the cathedral that can be seen when the king speaks with the owners at the end of the video. It is called La Cancela. Ooh, this is nice.

 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
L’Hospitalet in Catalonia is not shut down, but IMO is soon likely to be.

It's not far along from the "official" starting point of the Camí Catalan from Western Barcelona leading up the valley.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
News about life along the Caminos in Covid-19 times
And in the same vein, a photo of the queue that formed outside of the Pilgrims Office in Santiago de Compostela by those who want to get their Compostela. This was two days ago. Daily numbers are currently a few hundred.

BTW, I just noticed that this subform is called Covid and the Camino. I've been trying to redress the balance a bit: more Camino and less Covid. 🙃


Source: Correo Gallego of 11 July 2020
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
And in the same vein, a photo of the queue that formed outside of the Pilgrims Office in Santiago de Compostela by those who want to get their Compostela. This was two days ago. Daily numbers are currently a few hundred.

BTW, I just noticed that this subform is called Covid and the Camino. I've been trying to redress the balance a bit: more Camino and less Covid. 🙃


Source: Correo Gallego of 11 July 2020
I don't see two meters separation between anyone in that picture! And not everyone is wearing a mask.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via Francigena 2009/11/14, Monaco-Lindau '15, Assisi-Pietralcina '17
C.F. april-may '18
?
It is encouraging for me to see that there are pilgrims on the camino and that they can obtain Compostela. I am sure they are taking the measures imposed by the Spanish authorities 🙂
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I don't see two meters separation between anyone in that picture! And not everyone is wearing a mask.
I have to admit that I am not up to date with all the national and regional differences in current legislation and recommendations ... but I checked a recent news article for Galicia and apparently their social distance is 1.5 m and Galicia prioritises the use of masks over the social distance - whatever that means. In any case, it is my understanding that you don't have to do both. For example, a general rule under their legislation says that you need to wear a mask when you cannot keep social distances ... and then I don't know what their social bubble rules are if any. Spanish pilgrims will be in the majority right now and they often walk as a couple, a family or some other group. The photo wouldn't give me reason to worry.

I wonder whether they installed protection screens at the desks inside of the pilgrims office. I see this quite a bit where I live. Still not yet used to it.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I wonder whether they installed protection screens at the desks inside of the pilgrims office. I see this quite a bit where I live. Still not yet used to it.
I am seeing it quite a bit in the USA, too, at my local grocery store, hardware store, pharmacy, and resale shop in my small town of 2000 residents. They are at least trying to make some changes going forward.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Interesting points from a website I won't link to (it's political) ; but the original source of this is here : https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

‘Most antibody studies have shown a population-based Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) of 0.1 per cent to 0.3 per cent. The US health authority CDC published in May a still cautious “best estimate” of 0.26 per cent (based on 35 per cent asymptomatic cases).

‘At the end of May, however, an immunological study by the University of Zurich was published, which for the first time showed that the usual antibody tests that measure antibodies in the blood (IgG and IgM) can detect at most about one fifth of all coronavirus infections.

‘The reason for this is that in most people the new coronavirus is already neutralised by antibodies on the mucous membrane (IgA) or by cellular immunity (T cells) and no symptoms or only mild symptoms develop.

‘This means that the new coronavirus is probably much more widespread than previously assumed and the lethality per infection is around five times lower than previously estimated. The real lethality could therefore be significantly below 0.1 per cent and thus in the range of influenza.

‘At the same time, the Swiss study may explain why children usually develop no symptoms (due to frequent contact with previous corona cold viruses), and why even hotspots such as New York City found an antibody prevalence (IgG/IgM) of at most 20 per cent – as this already corresponds to herd immunity.’
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
Now more and more autonomous regions are making wearing masks mandatory always and everywhere (also when a distance of 1,5 m is no problem) I wonder if walking the camino is considered a sports. Because sports is an exception to the new mask rules.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Now more and more autonomous regions are making wearing masks mandatory always and everywhere (also when a distance of 1,5 m is no problem) I wonder if walking the camino is considered a sports. Because sports is an exception to the new mask rules.
You live in Spain! Can you not find out and let us know? ☺
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
Why exempt it?
You don't have to wear a mask in any situation where it is not 'compatible' with the acitivity. For example: eating, drinking, swimming and exercising. I think the latter one is because of getting out of breath.

And 'walking' is a long range from a stroll through the park to serious hiking. So no idea how they would see walking a camino.
 
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Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
You live in Spain! Can you not find out and let us know? ☺
I am trying! The point is that these are rules from provinces autonomous regions, so they could be slightly different anywhere. Here in Asturias they still have to make the formal decision, so no details yet. During phase 1 and 2 of the lockdown there was also quite a lot of debate whether to consider walking as a sports or not. So it might take a while before it is clear...
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
You don't have to wear a mask in every situation where it is not 'compatible' with the acitivity. For example: eating, drinking, swimming and exercising. I think the latter one is because of getting out of breath.

And 'walking' is a long range from a stroll through the park and serious hiking. So no idea how they would see walking a camino.
I think best practice should be adhered to wherever.
If on your own, miles from anywhere, I can see no problem.
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
I think best practice should be adhered to wherever.
If on your own, miles from anywhere, I can see no problem.
There won't be a risk of course. The question is whether it is allowed. These two things are not always the same in Spain. And there are a lot of 'in between' situations.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
There won't be a risk of course. The question is whether it is allowed. These two things are not always the same in Spain. And there are a lot of 'in between' situations.
Well thereby lies the dilemma. I think the best practice is to always wear a mask. That avoids having to think when you might go from one situation to another.
The compelling evidence for me is not that it protects you but others. What one of our ministers called "good manners".
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I am trying! The point is that these are rules from provinces autonomous regions, so they could be slightly different anywhere. Here in Asturias they still have to make the formal decision, so no details yet.
Oh, I understand now: apparently, Catalonia, Mallorca together with the other islands, and Extramadura have already such a rule in place and Asturias, Cantabria and Murcia are discussing it.

It is just as well that there are very few international pilgrims right now ... on the Frances, some barely know where La Rioja and Castilla y Leon are, and I would need a map to see exactly where Extramadura, Cantabria, Murcia and even Asturias is. And then you also have to follow local news ... 🤔
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
Well thereby lies the dilemma. I think the best practice is to always wear a mask. That avoids having to think when you might go from one situation to another.
The compelling evidence for me is not that it protects you but others. What one of our ministers called "good manners".
True. It protects others. But have you tried wearing a mask while walking in a normal hiking pace in 25 degrees or more? It is quite a challenge. Especially when you are walking uphill.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
True. It protects others. But have you tried wearing a mask while walking in a normal hiking pace in 25 degrees or more? It is quite a challenge. Especially when you are walking uphill.
Yes, I do know what it is like....my experience is applying chemicals wearing complete protective non breathable protective kit. Believe me...the sweat drips off you. The wearing of a mask is very minor.
Secondly, when I have been carrying this out...it isnt winter.
 
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Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
Oh, I understand now: apparently, Catalonia, Mallorca together with the other islands, and Extramadura have already such a rule in place and Asturias, Cantabria and Murcia are discussing it.

It is just as well that there are very few international pilgrims right now ... on the Frances, some barely know where La Rioja and Castilla y Leon are, and I would need a map to see exactly where Extramadura, Cantabria, Murcia and even Asturias is. And then you also have to follow local news ... 🤔
Yup. It is getting complicated. Your information is already outdated. ;-) As fas as I know this is the situation right now:

Mandatory: Cataluña, Baleares, Extremadura, Andalucía and Aragón
About to become mandatory: Navarra, La Rioja, Asturias, Cantabria and Murcia

In most of these autonomous regions measures will take effect in the course of this week. Most likely more regions will follow.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
So the minimum social distance in Galicia is indeed 1,5 m and I guess people in Spain are frequently reminded, like during yesterday's regional elections in Galicia and the Basque Country. I wonder whether there is a niche market for broad rimmed pilgrim hats, similar to the hats that a café in Germany handed out to their customers on their first day of reopening or the hats that Chinese kids made for themselves for school.

I got a measuring tape out: 75 cm would be a very broad rim. 🤭

Covid hats.jpg
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
This means that the new coronavirus is probably much more widespread than previously assumed and the lethality per infection is around five times lower than previously estimated. The real lethality could therefore be significantly below 0.1 per cent and thus in the range of influenza.
This is one of the most positive and hopeful bits of news I've read recently, but wonder if we can trust the information to be fairly accurate. 🤔
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
You don't have to wear a mask in any situation where it is not 'compatible' with the acitivity. For example: eating, drinking, swimming and exercising. I think the latter one is because of getting out of breath.

And 'walking' is a long range from a stroll through the park to serious hiking. So no idea how they would see walking a camino.
It seems very subjective.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Yes, I do know what it is like....my experience is applying chemicals wearing complete protective non breathable protective kit. Believe me...the sweat drips off you. The wearing of a mask is very minor.
Secondly, when I have been carrying this out...it isnt winter.
I have an N-95 mask and it is very tight, doesn't breathe well and is very claustrophobic. I don't know how you and others put up with hazmat type suits.
I now mostly use more comfortable masks, but feel rather guilty to let my comfort dictate.
 

OzAnnie

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
'CP, Frances,Norte,Salv/prim;Le puy, Inglés, CDM, Invierno, Fin/Mux, Vdlp 2019>Táb/ Prt Levante 2020
So the minimum social distance in Galicia is indeed 1,5 m ....... hats that a café in Germany handed out to their customers on their first day of reopening or the hats that Chinese kids made for themselves for school.

I got a measuring tape out: 75 cm would be a very broad rim. 🤭

View attachment 78789
Perfect !!
Just what I need when ‘I’ am doing the right thing at supermarket and others push up too close. I’ve had to politely tell them to ‘back off ‘. , but these head/hat contraptions would keep them at bay.
 

Sean Lad

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2010 to 2019 walked total of 31 caminos
Camino walking not a sport
its not the walking that’s a problem but beds pubs communal dinners
at my age its no no until 2021 or 2022 assuming I am still alive
 

Sean Lad

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2010 to 2019 walked total of 31 caminos
I use my hiking pole to keep people 2 meters from me
length of poles
and outstretched arm 2 meters exactly
 

OzAnnie

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
'CP, Frances,Norte,Salv/prim;Le puy, Inglés, CDM, Invierno, Fin/Mux, Vdlp 2019>Táb/ Prt Levante 2020
I use my hiking pole to keep people 2 meters from me
length of poles
and outstretched arm 2 meters exactly
One doesn’t usually carry their hiking poles to the supermarket. 😂
- using the outstretched arm the other day when another shopper came to the counter beside me instead of waiting the correct distance behind (for her turn).. I gave ‘the 👀 look’ first - but she wasn’t catching on. Next I stretched my arm out towards her. She thought I was giving her something !!!! I had to add ‘ I’m trying to maintain distance ‘ .... .. it took her a few moments to ‘get it!’ and then said ‘Sorry’

It may sound rude but they are the ground rules at the moment. It goes both ways.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
One doesn’t usually carry their hiking poles to the supermarket. 😂
- using the outstretched arm the other day when another shopper came to the counter beside me instead of waiting the correct distance behind (for her turn).. I gave ‘the 👀 look’ first - but she wasn’t catching on. Next I stretched my arm out towards her. She thought I was giving her something !!!! I had to add ‘ I’m trying to maintain distance ‘ .... .. it took her a few moments to ‘get it!’ and then said ‘Sorry’

It may sound rude but they are the ground rules at the moment. It goes both ways.
This is part of a complex problem. We know what we need to do but "old habits die hard"
The new social habits need to adapt. What we are used to is not acceptable at the moment.
One week we are told something...the next week it changes. Strictures in one country (even from one province to another) differ.
We have to adopt common sense, best practice habits wherever we are. If we do then there will be a good (and safe) Camino in the future. Anything that is done wrongly can have a negative effect thousands of miles away and then the the answer to "when" we can enjoy a safe camino will come that much quicker.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
You don't have to wear a mask in any situation where it is not 'compatible' with the acitivity. For example: eating, drinking, swimming and exercising.
For Catalonia, the question has been asked by citizens and answered by the health department of the regional government: It is not necessary to wear a face mask within the territory of Catalonia si se va de excursión, porque se considera una práctica deportiva.

 
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Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
On the question of masks (or face coverings) I have seen nothing that states there is a negative or increased risk from wearing one.
The only information I have is that they are more effective in protecting others than yourself.
For that reason I would always wear one in the company of others (irrespective of local opinions that they aren't necessary).
I would do this out of politeness, good manners and for health reasons in the hope that others pay me the same respect
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Of course someone has come up with a solution for maintaining distance that doesn't require funny hats or carrying your hiking poles everywhere.😊
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Of course someone has come up with a solution for maintaining distance that doesn't require funny hats or carrying your hiking poles everywhere.😊
Love this,Terri! How about "sticking" it over on the covid humor thread! 😛
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Common sense and consideration for others is one thing but there is much to be said for clear rules, too. The leader of the regional government of Andalusia is reported to have justified the introduction of new rules about face masks in his region by saying that "in some small municipalities a kind of tourism phobia is developing because visitors arrive without a face mask, something that is neither good for the economy nor good for health reasons, and we are also seeing a progressive relaxation in the population after five very difficult months."
 

Iriebabel

The cyborg turtle
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2018
Camino Del Norte & part of Lebaniego 2019
I have an N-95 mask and it is very tight, doesn't breathe well and is very claustrophobic. I don't know how you and others put up with hazmat type suits.
I now mostly use more comfortable masks, but feel rather guilty to let my comfort dictate.
It’s not easy ..And there will be a lasting phobia well into the future due to the effects of COVID on the way we think about social distance and virus spread.

IN the mask I’ve learned to slow my breathing and trying not to hyper ventilate....even as an asthmatic.
for years I had to wear a military gas mask and full suit while sometimes hiding under a desk for multiple hours in Training exercise , Getting gassed On purpose in training, Or while carrying a 180 pound patient thru the woods and Actual use sometimes during real conditions ..I can not say I miss those days 😁. And Try not to get an itch either...impossible to scratch your face .
not happy with wearing a COVID mask but I am conditioned like Pavlov’s dogs to protect my respiratory track 😜...my mind over the matter, as it were Trying not to pass out due to lack of fresh air.,

Present day Florida 110 F degree heat index And 100% humidity. I wear my mask outside but I Mostly will stay inside my lovely air conditioned house 🤪 Where I don't need to wear my mask.

I do miss the camino And I suspect I will be very conditioned to do what I must to keep myself and others safe.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
@Luka, the German pilgrims forum has a link to the new official rules for the Balearic Islands where it says Asimismo, tampoco será obligatorio su uso en los espacios de la naturaleza o al aire libre fuera de los núcleos de población - Likewise, [the use of face masks] in nature spaces or outdoors outside population centers will not be compulsory. I would understand this to mean that outside of villages and towns, provided you walk on your own or keep your distance to others, you don't need to put on a mask and you must put it on as soon as you enter a village or town.

As you already mentioned, I understand that Navarra and La Rioja will introduce their rules about extending the compulsory use of face masks within the next few days - so that would cover the first part of the Camino Frances.

For a current overview on TheLocal.es: Where in Spain are face masks compulsory in all public spaces?
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Reportedly, Zaragoza and Huesca are reverting to something like a phase 2+

Good idea probably to completely avoid both variants of the Camí Catalan, plus I'd suggest the Aragonés.
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2020? Looks like.... nowhere! 😁
From what I can gather (from my spanish friends) is that the only place you are allowed without mascarillas (face masks) is on terraces outside - which are already socially distanced....
Anyone on the Camino right now... do you concur?
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
From what I can gather (from my spanish friends) is that the only place you are allowed without mascarillas (face masks) is on terraces outside - which are already socially distanced....
Anyone on the Camino right now... do you concur?
I assume eating outdoors on patios or tables outside bars/restaurants without masks must be allowed or you could not eat.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
In England, the regulations concerning face masks have changed. This will affect everyone, visitors alike, when entering shops.
They must be worn, if not, a £100.00 fine could be levied.
Long overdue.
I am aware that there are circumstances where they cannot be worn. When eating and drinking. I have become aware that some might find it uncomfortable when ascending inclines, hills etc. Providing you are alone and "socially distanced" I, personally, do not have a problem with that.
The fact that one province might not have a strict requirement is of no interest to me. I would wear one irrespective of their opinions. In the current climate I would not be there anyway. I am not there for many reasons but the reason most pertinent to the forum is that I would like to see a return to something resembling the status quo and I am doing everything I can to ensure this be the case.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
@Luka, are there any pilgrims where you are?
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
As far as "social distancing" is concerned, I do not believe we have a magic number to go by for true safety as there are too many variables, but I personally do my best to adhere to the 2 meter guideline that has been established by most nations when I am out.
 

joevanderen

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2019)
I hate to ask questions that have already been answered, but, after looking for a bit, I could not find exactly what I was looking for. I am leaving my job in Casablanca soon and considering a Camino before returning to the US.

Are albergues open? Can any Covid pilgrims comment on what the camino looks like?
I know camping is usually frowned upon, but I was curious if it were more accepted to social distance? (donating to albergues along the way)

Buen Camino!
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)

joevanderen

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2019)

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I personally do my best to adhere to the 2 meter guideline that has been established by most nations when I am out.
I just got my measuring tape out. As one does when one has actually better things to do. 2 metres is actually enormous, no wonder we in the metric system are advised to keep a distance of 1.5 metres 🤔🤭.

Then I read the very official advice to stay at least 6 feet (about 2 arms’ length) from other people. 6 feet is about 1,80 metres and my stretched out arm measures about 60 cm, so twice this length is about 1,20 m which I think is about the length I automatically try to establish when someone approaches and passes me on a largely empty pavement. And often we smile at each other knowingly. On a busier pavement in a town it's impossible. And I would guess that's similar in Spain? The distance rules make most sense when you stay in each other's company for longer than a fraction of a second.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
I just got my measuring tape out. 2 metres is actually enormous, no wonder we in the metric system are advised to keep a distance of 1.5 metres 🤔🤭.

Then I read the very official advice to stay at least 6 feet (about 2 arms’ length) from other people. 6 feet is about 1,80 metres and my stretched out arm measures about 60 cm, so twice this length is about 1,20 m which I think is about the length I automatically try to establish when someone approaches and passes me on a largely empty pavement. And often we smile at each other knowingly. On a busier pavement in a town it's impossible. And I would guess that's similar in Spain?
I'm guessing the 2 metres is an approximation. A courtesy distance not set in stone.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I think I will go out and measure some distances now. iPhone users, there's a cool tool called Measure on your phone. In case you didn't know ☺. Not very handy for measuring the length of one's own arm, though. 😂
 

C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
Farther is better; closer is not. Somewhere between 1 and 3 m of distance, the amount of transmitted virus materials becomes very very very small. The general advice of 2 m or 1.5 m or 6 feet is a convenient easily-understood piece of guidance, to reduce exposure to the virus. Sometime people act as if it is a binary situation where if you are a fraction under the rule, you will get sick, but if you are over, you will not. If that were so, then the argument about the correct distance would be important. But it is not.

We need to embed these ideas in our behaviour in a comfortable way so that we can be as safe as is reasonably practicable.

@Kathar1na - As much fun as the measuring app must be, use it for heights of trees or something more positive than distances of the passersby. 😁
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
@Luka, the German pilgrims forum has a link to the new official rules for the Balearic Islands where it says Asimismo, tampoco será obligatorio su uso en los espacios de la naturaleza o al aire libre fuera de los núcleos de población - Likewise, [the use of face masks] in nature spaces or outdoors outside population centers will not be compulsory. I would understand this to mean that outside of villages and towns, provided you walk on your own or keep your distance to others, you don't need to put on a mask and you must put it on as soon as you enter a village or town.

As you already mentioned, I understand that Navarra and La Rioja will introduce their rules about extending the compulsory use of face masks within the next few days - so that would cover the first part of the Camino Frances.

For a current overview on TheLocal.es: Where in Spain are face masks compulsory in all public spaces?
Thanks! I hope all autonomous regions will make this wise decision. I made a little coastal walk today here in Asturias. Wearing a mask would have been rediculous. If it would only be in towns and cities, it would make some sense.

I also found a nice patchwork map here:
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Farther is better; closer is not. Somewhere between 1 and 3 m of distance, the amount of transmitted virus materials becomes very very very small. The general advice of 2 m or 1.5 m or 6 feet is a convenient easily-understood piece of guidance, to reduce exposure to the virus. Sometime people act as if it is a binary situation where if you are a fraction under the rule, you will get sick, but if you are over, you will not. If that were so, then the argument about the correct distance would be important. But it is not.

We need to embed these ideas in our behaviour in a comfortable way so that we can be as safe as is reasonably practicable.

@Kathar1na - As much fun as the measuring app must be, use it for heights of trees or something more positive than distances of the passersby. 😁
....or an electric cattle prod. ;) ;)
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Thanks! I hope all autonomous regions will make this wise decision. I made a little coastal walk today here in Asturias. Wearing a mask would have been rediculous. If it would only be in towns and cities, it would make some sense.

I also found a nice patchwork map here:
I'm taking a break during my morning walk. I put a cord on my mask so that I can wear it around my neck while no one is around and quickly put it on my face when I am near others. I don't think that anyone thinks that it's necessary to wear a mask when you are 10s of meters from other people.
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
I'm taking a break during my morning walk. I put a cord on my mask so that I can wear it around my neck while no one is around and quickly put it on my face when I am near others. I don't think that anyone thinks that it's necessary to wear a mask when you are 10s of meters from other people.
Yes, I wear mine around my neck as well. There are days that I have to put it on and off all the time.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I just got my measuring tape out. As one does when one has actually better things to do. 2 metres is actually enormous, no wonder we in the metric system are advised to keep a distance of 1.5 metres 🤔🤭.

Then I read the very official advice to stay at least 6 feet (about 2 arms’ length) from other people. 6 feet is about 1,80 metres and my stretched out arm measures about 60 cm, so twice this length is about 1,20 m which I think is about the length I automatically try to establish when someone approaches and passes me on a largely empty pavement. And often we smile at each other knowingly. On a busier pavement in a town it's impossible. And I would guess that's similar in Spain? The distance rules make most sense when you stay in each other's company for longer than a fraction of a second.
Dear @katar1na, me thinks you are straining at gnats here a bit! ☺ 🦟
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
Similar measures in Asturias, starting now:

El Gobierno del Principado de Asturias ha aprobado este martes el uso obligatorio de la mascarilla en las vías públicas urbanas, con independencia de que se pueda mantener la distancia de seguridad. Por otro lado, en las zonas rurales será obligatoria en caso de posibles aglomeraciones o por afluencia turística.


So wearing masks in towns and cities and only in the countryside in crowded hotspots.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Similar measures in Asturias, starting now:

El Gobierno del Principado de Asturias ha aprobado este martes el uso obligatorio de la mascarilla en las vías públicas urbanas, con independencia de que se pueda mantener la distancia de seguridad. Por otro lado, en las zonas rurales será obligatoria en caso de posibles aglomeraciones o por afluencia turística.


So wearing masks in towns and cities and only in the countryside in crowded hotspots.
Excellent. As it should be!
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I am replacing an earlier statistics post about numbers of Compostelas given out to pilgrims in Santiago in Covid-19 times, see table below.

The pilgrims office counted 3,000 pilgrims during the first half of July 2020, and if the trend of around 200 Compostelas per day continues, they will have reached 6,000 to 8,000 pilgrims at the end of this month. These numbers are typical for March or for November.

Total number for July during previous years: 50,000 pilgrims.

July 2020.jpg
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
The EU has completed their first bi-weekly review of the list of countries whose residents ought to be allowed to travel into EU countries and the Schengen associated countries (Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway, Switzerland).

No great surprises there: for the next two weeks at least and together with about 160 other countries, the USA and South Africa remain excluded, while travellers from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, South Korea and several other countries are in principle welcome. It is up to each individual EU country to decide if and how they implement the Recommendation from Brussels, see Council updates the list of countries for which member states should gradually lift travel restrictions at the external borders.

Note that this is about residents of these countries and not about nationals of these countries. Denmark and Ireland are not bound or subject to the Recommendation which is not unusual in EU external border context.
 
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NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
Note that this is about residents of these countries and not about nationals of these countries.
I understand that where one lives is the pertinent factor in risk level, but we travel on national passports. How will they police this?
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I understand that where one lives is the pertinent factor in risk level, but we travel on national passports. How will they police this?
I don't know. I understand from another recent post that the airline staff in the country of departure is tasked with this job - which is a bit odd, as they are not officers of the destination country. So you have to show your EU passport, your EU residency card or whatever the destination country requires to show that you are entitled to enter, and if you don't have it you are denied boarding.

If you travel to the EU+ via the UK, on a non-connecting flight, there will be an entry stamp in your (US) passport for example that shows that your journey did not originate in the UK. If you travel for example from the US via Canada directly to the EU, on a non-connecting flight, it's a different story I guess. Can they weed out everyone who is not entitled to enter? I guess not. Is that even their aim? I guess not. I could imagine, if you manage to sneak in and then come to the attention of the authorities somehow, you might be in major trouble. Remember also that Spain requires you to fill in the SpTH form before you can fly.

I don't know any details but I vaguely remember having read something about airlines and conditions imposed on them in this context. I am quite sure that they had thought about this aspect ... ☺.
 
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Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
The reasons that airlines are responsible is that it is their, and associated, staff who monitor outbound passengers at the point of departure. From Check in to the gate (not at security where it is the boarding pass not the passport which is shown).
If emigration rules are not adhered to it is the airline who is fined....and quite heavily.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
About fines for airlines ... I have no idea how this is handled and legislated by the various EU countries. It is my impression that it concerns mainly flights from countries that are not a huge source of Camino pilgrims but are a major source of illegal immigration into the EU countries.

I guess the main effect and purposes of the EU list is the fact that there simply are not many flights from countries that are not on the list and that both business and tourism traffic are severely reduced and restricted. Anyone travelled recently and can report ???
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Right, I will try to make this understandable (I worked in the industry for twenty years).
The outbound checks are made at various stages. Starting at checkin and then at gate.
Your passport is checked twice...at these points.
If an airline carries a passenger contrary to regulations they incur a fine. It shouldnt happen but with all human involvement is prone to errors the airline is responsible because they may employ direct employees or could have contracted out to a ground handler, in which case they can pass this fine to them for their omission.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Residency. Not nationality.
Quite correct. The airline knows that you have departed from a country that cannot enter a country that does not allow entry. I am focussing on that and the financial penalties. You might be an American (to take this as an example) but resident in a country which allows such travel.
 

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