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COVID Covid free "tourists"

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george.g

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
French way 10, 11
Norte 12
Vdlp 13
Levante 14
Mozarabe/Malaga 15
Augusta 16
Mozarabe/Almeria 17
Check out today's Guardian UK edition, it appears that Spain MAY let in covid free tourists soon. "Right now we have discussions with our collegues in the UK" Fernando Valdes (Secretary of State for Tourism)
So maybe a camino this autum MAY be possible.
Regards
George.G
 
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nidarosa

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
Inglés 2009+2017, Francés 2012+2018, Astorga-Santiago repeatedly
The link to the article I suppose you are quoting from is here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-mixed-response-spain-greece-portugal-belgium
Seems that it concerns this 'covid passport/certificate' but I think there is quite a way to go yet. Also if the EU agrees on a form of certificate, it still remains to be seen if or when the UK agrees to it or is included in the same system now that we are no longer EU members. UK government don't seem very keen on any kind of certificate. Hopefully we will know more when international travel is allowed again after 17 May.
 
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mikebet

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
SJPdP to Pamplona (2016); Baiona to Santiago (2018); Sarria to Santiago (2018)
It's worth noting that several countries are considering opening to foreign tourists who have a "vaccination passport" whose exact format is yet to be determined. Thailand, for example, has a tentative plan to do this from July 1. Countries highly dependent on tourism have a powerful incentive to look at this. With both Pfizer jabs already done I'm beginning to get cautiously optimistic for another Camino in October.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999, now living in Santiago de C
Past OR future Camino
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
Please bear in mind that vaccination, as far as we know, only prevents the vaccinated person from getting seriously ill or die from Covid. There is very little scientific evidence if it does or does not prevent transmission to others. Only time will tell ...
SY
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
I'd aim for Summer rather than Autumn -- there will be another respiratory diseases season in Autumn-Winter 2021-2022, and the dominant illness in that category is still the Covid19 SARS.
 

mikebet

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
SJPdP to Pamplona (2016); Baiona to Santiago (2018); Sarria to Santiago (2018)
Please bear in mind that vaccination, as far as we know, only prevents the vaccinated person from getting seriously ill or die from Covid. There is very little scientific evidence if it does or does not prevent transmission to others. Only time will tell ...
SY
True, but the fact that after millions of vaccinations worldwide there have been no (to my knowledge) reports of a vaccinated person carrying an infectious viral load is a pretty good sign, particularly because there are epidemiologists all over the place looking for just this thing. There will never be absolute certainty, of course, because things don't work that way. But if it doesn't emerge as a significant factor -- or doesn't appear at all -- that will be sufficient evidence for public health policy. We'll know pretty soon.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
If I have both covid vaccines will I be able to enter Spain?
No. As a resident of Arizona or Idaho and without any additional qualification that may make you eligible such as holding a passport issued by one of the EU countries, you are not allowed to enter Spain until the end of March, vaccinated or not.

I expect this ban to be prolonged again into April. Spain tends to prolong their Covid related entry ban for international tourists towards the end of the month and for the duration of another month. Other EU countries have the same kind of entry ban for international travellers but open-ended.
 
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True, but the fact that after millions of vaccinations worldwide there have been no (to my knowledge) reports of a vaccinated person carrying an infectious viral load is a pretty good sign, particularly because there are epidemiologists all over the place looking for just this thing. There will never be absolute certainty, of course, because things don't work that way. But if it doesn't emerge as a significant factor -- or doesn't appear at all -- that will be sufficient evidence for public health policy. We'll know pretty soon.
You appear to know your stuff, so I hesitate to comment, but I think that we're far from having an abundance of data to assess the degree to which vaccinated people who become infected may be capable of transmitting the virus.

Sure, millions of people have received vaccine doses, but in all but a fraction of those cases, there is no ongoing monitoring with PCR tests. We gather no data (about viral loads in asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic infections) from the vast majority of vaccinated people after their vaccinations. What's more, we don't yet know what the infectious viral load is.

During its clinical trials, Astra Zeneca did weekly monitoring of participants (PCR test w. nasal swab). Pfizer and Moderna did not do this kind of frequent monitoring. Post-approval, I understand that Pfizer has been doing studies in Israel to get an idea of transmission in largely vaccinated populations. I have also read that the UK is seeking to determine what the infectious dose is, through "challenge trials." I am sure that there are other ongoing studies and that scientists will soon have a better picture, as you say. For the moment, though, I think there's a lack of data - not an abundance - to shed light on this point.
 
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C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Past OR future Camino
Most years since 2012. Hoping now for 2022.
There will never be absolute certainty, of course, because things don't work that way. But if it doesn't emerge as a significant factor -- or doesn't appear at all -- that will be sufficient evidence for public health policy.

I think that we're far from having an abundance of data to assess the degree to which vaccinated people who become infected may be capable of transmitting the virus.
I do not see any conflict between these statements. Public health policies should depend on "sufficient evidence" - the definition of "sufficient" will vary, and sometimes there is a scarcity of evidence - as well as assessment of the risks, consideration of the welfare of the majority, and consideration of the welfare of outlying individuals.

I generally trust the qualified public health officials to develop policies and regulations. We know they will not always get it totally right, but somebody has to make the decisions amidst the uncertainty. I'm glad it's not me!
 
Past OR future Camino
“It’s your road, and yours alone. Others may walk it with you, but no one can walk it for you.” Rumi
So maybe a camino this autum MAY be possible.
Let us not rush into things - the Camino will be there in 2022.
The health department in my country are asking people, who have been vaccinated to continue to do test for Covid 19 once or twice a week since it is not known if a vaccinated person can pass the virus on to other not-vaccinated people.
I have my first vaccine but I'm still being tested for Corona twice a week and I'll continue to do so until more is known about this virus.
We can't even think about going to Spain before the entire Spanish population is vaccinated.
 

george.g

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
French way 10, 11
Norte 12
Vdlp 13
Levante 14
Mozarabe/Malaga 15
Augusta 16
Mozarabe/Almeria 17
I'm just happy that the Uk and Spanish politico's are at least talking, in particular it's important for us UK residents that it looks like travel to Spain MAY escape any UK/EU political wrangling.
Regards
George
 

SabineP

Camino = Gratitude + Compassion.
Past OR future Camino
some and then more. see my signature.
Let us not rush into things - the Camino will be there in 2022.
The health department in my country are asking people, who have been vaccinated to continue to do test for Covid 19 once or twice a week since it is not known if a vaccinated person can pass the virus on to other not-vaccinated people.
I have my first vaccine but I'm still being tested for Corona twice a week and I'll continue to do so until more is known about this virus.
We can't even think about going to Spain before the entire Spanish population is vaccinated.


Wow . Impressive with the testing. Is this the classic PCR testing or the quick saliva test?
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
The health department in my country are asking people, who have been vaccinated to continue to do test for Covid 19 once or twice a week since it is not known if a vaccinated person can pass the virus on to other not-vaccinated people.

Wow . Impressive with the testing.

I agree!

We can't even think about going to Spain before the entire Spanish population is vaccinated.

You know that no country will ever have its entire population vaccinated.
There are people who, for medical reasons cannot receive the vaccine, and others who don't trust it.😕
 

george.g

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
French way 10, 11
Norte 12
Vdlp 13
Levante 14
Mozarabe/Malaga 15
Augusta 16
Mozarabe/Almeria 17
Since posting a little earlier I've found a report in El Pais 2nd March which suggests if things go to plan, maybe 58% of Spains population could be vaccinated by Sept/Oct, at the current rate vaccinations could be as low as 28%, so perhaps a late autum camino probably is out of the question?

Sorry I don't know how to post links, but a quick google search will work.
 

SabineP

Camino = Gratitude + Compassion.
Past OR future Camino
some and then more. see my signature.
Since posting a little earlier I've found a report in El Pais 2nd March which suggests if things go to plan, maybe 58% of Spains population could be vaccinated by Sept/Oct, at the current rate vaccinations could be as low as 28%, so perhaps a late autum camino probably is out of the question?

Sorry I don't know how to post links, but a quick google search will work.


Here you go.
 

David61

Active Member
Since posting a little earlier I've found a report in El Pais 2nd March which suggests if things go to plan, maybe 58% of Spains population could be vaccinated by Sept/Oct, at the current rate vaccinations could be as low as 28%, so perhaps a late autum camino probably is out of the question?

Sorry I don't know how to post links, but a quick google search will work.
I think the rate of vaccination will not come down to the individual country driving it but the shortage of supplies. The EU seems to have made a hash of ordering various vaccines and tried to block the UK supply, now have blocked Australia's and are threatening others. Austria, Hungary, Slovakia with others likely to follow are turning to China and Russia for supplies. Given production lead times the likelihood of enough people being vaccinated AND there being agreement around vaccine passports and international travel I fear 2021 is gone. Here in the UK we have had four and a half years trying to agree what should have been a simple trade agreement and even now that is not working. For those non UK/EU an example being EU is blocking small amounts of shellfish and we are threatening to block mineral water (but only some). The EU (mainly the French, love our shellfish, we in return are one of the biggest buyers of mineral water. Nose and face!). sorry for rambling!!
 
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TagoMago

New Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances (2015)
As an Australian who is in the last bracket to be vaccinated (hopefully by October) i'm not getting my hopes up of an Autumn camino. However I am feeling very positive for Spring next year. Just 12 more months.
 
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