Covid passport

[biarritzdon]

There are some news stories in the US saying that it is possible their will be Covid free passport endorsement issued for international travel once they have taken the vaccine.

 

[SabineP]

There are some news stories in the US saying that it is possible their will be Covid free passport endorsement issued for international travel once they have taken the vaccine.

See how this will work out . Strong evidence that someone who is vaccinated can still give the virus to someone else ( without falling ill themselves ).

 

[alexwalker]

Just h

See how this will work out . Strong evidence that someone who is vaccinated can still give the virus to someone else ( without falling ill themselves ).

Just heard the same on the national news: You can still carry the virus. You just don't know it, because you won't be sick.

 

[Ekelund]

We have to be patient.

Strong evidence that someone who is vaccinated can still give the virus to someone else ( without falling ill themselves ).

If that is the case, everybody has to be vaccinated before we can travel again.

 

[Marbe2]

See how this will work out . Strong evidence that someone who is vaccinated can still give the virus to someone else ( without falling ill themselves ).

Today on CNN, I heard we do not have enough data yet, according to Dr. Fauchi, to determine, even if one is vaccinated, as to whether that same person can carry the virus in the nasal passages and still spread it to someone who is not vaccinated. It will take time to find that out as well as how long immunity will last and if we can develop herd immunity. So we will need to wear masks and continue to distance until scientists have definitively answered those questions.

 

[SabineP]

We have to be patient.


If that is the case, everybody has to be vaccinated before we can travel again.

Or a very high percentage needs to be vaccinated. It is impossible to have a 100 percent vaccination rate.

 

[Marbe2]

We have to be patient.


If that is the case, everybody has to be vaccinated before we can travel again.

Unfortunately some will never get vaccinated. We should wait till all have had the opportunity to get a vaccine. However there are some who will choose not to get it.

 

[Isca-camigo]

Oh the fun of 2020 and the increasingly polarised viewpoints..

 

[simply B]

Looks like I have Camino-ing in my rear-view mirror for a long time, perhaps for all time.

This whole thing seems to be extremely rushed, IMHO. Typically, vaccines take 5-7 years at a minimum and often double that to pass all the efficacy/safety protocols. And these are composed of attenuated or inactivated (ie. "dead") antigen-bearing material.

mRNA vaccines are a totally new technology and I cannot seem to find any of the foundational research indicating long-term studies of safety. (As an MS graduate in Microbiology and Public Health and former member of the American Society for Microbiology, I do know my way around the published research journals.)

Phase 3 of vaccine development is where "safety" of the vaccine is researched and validated and typically takes a year or so. (The first two phases "Discovery" and "Pre-clinical" are typically 2 years each.)

I'll grant you that throwing money at stages 1 and 2 can speed things along but safety validation in a matter of a few months? The limits there are biological cycles - injection, challenge infection, and monitoring/categorizing sequelae. It takes the time it takes and cannot be accelerated by excess money. And, if it is demonstrated safe in the long-term then why are the producers getting "no liability" status from government?

No, I am not an "anti-vaxxer". I probably have more jabs in my hide than most here, up to, and including, for rabies. (The latter as I was working with pure rabies virus for lengthy periods of time.)

I am looking for neither affirmation, nor to call into question your own opinion. You do what you think best - for you. My best wishes for everyone's continued health no matter your course.

Flame me if you wish but educate me if you can. Maybe I missed something...and I would dearly love to see Spain again.

Cheers,

B

 

[henrythedog]

There are some news stories in the US saying that it is possible their will be Covid free passport endorsement issued for international travel once they have taken the vaccine.

Whilst the US government are perfectly at liberty to decide who they want to let out of their country, the opinion of the intended destination country is probably more relevant.

It may be that being vaccinated only reduces the risk to the individuals concerned and some reports suggest that they may either be capable of being infected or reinfected and/or still capable of carrying infection to others.

There would seem to be no certainty as yet.

Standards of diagnosis, classification and reporting as well as precise standards to be applied to vaccine approval appear to differ markedly between countries and I fear that international consensus is some way off.

There is a fairly strident civil liberties argument against any kind of ‘immunity passport’. Personally I’d find it helpful if anyone testing positive had their ears painted blue - or similar - so that I had a better idea who to avoid. I’ve never held any elected position, for obvious reasons.,

 

[peregrina2000]

This thread has veered far away from Don’s original point, which was to make a factual announcement. The thread is now in the middle of a debate about vaccines. It’s political as much as it is scientific. If you want to debate the vaccine issue with other members, please use the private conversation button.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Personally I’d find it helpful if anyone testing positive had their ears painted blue - or similar - so that I had a better idea who to avoid. I’ve never held any elected position, for obvious reasons.,

 

[Doughnut NZ]

Looks like I have Camino-ing in my rear-view mirror for a long time, perhaps for all time.

This whole thing seems to be extremely rushed, IMHO. Typically, vaccines take 5-7 years at a minimum and often double that to pass all the efficacy/safety protocols. And these are composed of attenuated or inactivated (ie. "dead") antigen-bearing material.

mRNA vaccines are a totally new technology and I cannot seem to find any of the foundational research indicating long-term studies of safety. (As an MS graduate in Microbiology and Public Health and former member of the American Society for Microbiology, I do know my way around the published research journals.)

Phase 3 of vaccine development is where "safety" of the vaccine is researched and validated and typically takes a year or so. (The first two phases "Discovery" and "Pre-clinical" are typically 2 years each.)

I'll grant you that throwing money at stages 1 and 2 can speed things along but safety validation in a matter of a few months? The limits there are biological cycles - injection, challenge infection, and monitoring/categorizing sequelae. It takes the time it takes and cannot be accelerated by excess money. And, if it is demonstrated safe in the long-term then why are the producers getting "no liability" status from government?

No, I am not an "anti-vaxxer". I probably have more jabs in my hide than most here, up to, and including, for rabies. (The latter as I was working with pure rabies virus for lengthy periods of time.)

I am looking for neither affirmation, nor to call into question your own opinion. You do what you think best - for you. My best wishes for everyone's continued health no matter your course.

Flame me if you wish but educate me if you can. Maybe I missed something...and I would dearly love to see Spain again.

Cheers,

B

mRNA vaccine technology has been under development for over 16 years and has been well investigated for use against Cancer with some recent success.

This 2018 Nature review article is widely cited, well over 400 citations, https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2019.00594/full and concludes that mRNA vaccine technology is safe and highly useful.

There are a couple of other highly cited reviews from 2018-2019 that predate Covid with similar conclusions, just use Google Scholar to search for them.

One very early side effect from 2004 was high toxicity, i.e. animals given the vaccine died. But a breakthrough a couple of years later resolved that. One benefit of this (no longer relevant) side effect is that it tends to get noticed if it happens

Some of the original researchers in the mRNA vaccine field have recently been suggested as nominees for the Nobel prize.

 

[ivar]

I will close this thread since there is a lot that we do not know yet...