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COVID Covid positive pilgrims arriving in SDC. (if any)

markmcilroy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances August/Sept 2016
Camino Frances Sept/October 2017
Le Puy to Conques May 2018
With the covid numbers unfortunately starting to take off again in Spain (as in some other countries) do we have any idea how many (if any) of the pilgrims arriving in Santiago de Compostela now which is around 400 a day or enroute to SDC become covid positive during their pilgrimage? Or don't we know this information?
 

scroz

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte (2020)
I don't think this known. However, it might be of interest to the forum that yesterday it was announced that anyone entering Galicia from an area of "high incidence" of Covid-19, from within Spain or from abroad, will have to communicate to the authorities their lodging, contact details, etc:

I haven't found the list of places they consider "high incidence", which will likely change over time anyway. Apparently this measure comes into force on Tuesday.
 

LTfit

Veteran Member
I live on the Camino Francés and have an albergue in Castilla y León. To my knowledge there are no pilgrims that have been tested for either Covid-19 or antibodies.

Keep in mind that there are 17 autonomous regions in Spain, each with their own President, Health Ministry etc. I don't believe that there is a central body at this time (during the lockdown there was) collecting this information. RTVE website has an interactive map with all of Spain and the number of cases in each autonomous region.
 

Tiger 48

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2014 Frances. 2017 to be Norte
Is anyone aware of a site or location where one can check all regions across any particular camino. Eg all regions along the length of the Camino Frances?
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF in sections 2019/2020
To check all Spanish regions for the development of new Covid cases, I recommend a number of links:

First Worldometers, daily update for Spain:


In the daily updates of this page (after the graphics), you can click on ”source”, which brings you at this page that shows exactly how many new positives have been identified for the past day in each of the regions.

Next for Castillay y Lyon, you can see how many new positives in the subregions, like Burgos, Leon, Palencia (actually few):


This page shows the situation in colour coding and specific numbers for new Covid cases for each regions for Spain as a whole, per region:
 

Orlando Wren

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2018), Fisterra (2018)
Portuguese from Porto (Oct 2018)
Frances (2019)
To check all Spanish regions for the development of new Covid cases, I recommend a number of links:

First Worldometers, daily update for Spain:


In the daily updates of this page (after the graphics), you can click on ”source”, which brings you at this page that shows exactly how many new positives have been identified for the past day in each of the regions.

Next for Castillay y Lyon, you can see how many new positives in the subregions, like Burgos, Leon, Palencia (actually few):


This page shows the situation in colour coding and specific numbers for new Covid cases for each regions for Spain as a whole, per region:
Very useful info, thanks for posting. I can't get to the "source" page due to "privacy issues" (not a secure site) but it's good to know there is good data!
 

casa susana

Member
Camino(s) past & future
camino frances 2012
With the covid numbers unfortunately starting to take off again in Spain (as in some other countries) do we have any idea how many (if any) of the pilgrims arriving in Santiago de Compostela now which is around 400 a day or enroute to SDC become covid positive during their pilgrimage? Or don't we know this information?
The contact tracing service of Spain is under staffed and under resourced. I certainly know that the family who brought the Virus to the small village of Fonfria, finished the Camino in Santiago and returned to Madrid before they developed symptoms. So "how many are there arriving in Santiago with the virus?", is a difficult question to answer. With a two week period when one can be infectious, yet have no symptoms, it is a huge problem for the constantly moving pilgrim population on route to Santiago. As now, 13 infected residents of the small village of Fonfria, on the Camino, can attest to. Do not think because the Camino is open it is safe. The decision to reopen the Camino has been a purely economic one.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I certainly know that the family who brought the Virus to the small village of Fonfria, finished the Camino in Santiago and returned to Madrid before they developed symptoms
Do you actually have reliable details about this? I found nothing in the news or online, just a presumption that a family from Catalonia could have been the origin as they phoned people in Fonfria (and seemingly nowhere else) to inform them after their return home that they had become infected. On Facebook, I recently read the comments of a hospitalera on the Camino Frances who said that it was a family who had paid a visit to Fonfria, not walking pilgrims.

Family visits, especially now in the summer where there is a tradition in Spain to travel from cities where people live and work to the rural "home" are apparently a source for a number of outbreaks in Galicia and other northern areas in Spain.

As to the OP's question: how many (if any) of the pilgrims arriving in Santiago de Compostela now or enroute to SDC become Covid positive during their pilgrimage is not known and I doubt that it will ever be known. There have been remarkably few cases (I can think of only three) that made it into the news in connection with being on the Camino or returning home from it and learning that they had become Covid-19 positive and even then the details have remained murky and difficult to establish as known facts.

BTW, the daily arrival numbers published by the Pilgrims Office have been steadily increasing. Yesterday it was the highest number since the beginning of July: 972 pilgrims were registered at the Office.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Covid-19 positive and even then the details have remained murky and difficult to establish as known facts.
Details and facts regarding the tracking of who spreads the virus remain difficult to know...unfortunately "murky" is a perfect adjective to describe it and that hasn't seemed to change much since March.
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Details and facts regarding the tracking of who spreads the virus remain difficult to know...unfortunately "murky" is a perfect adjective to describe it and that hasn't seemed to change much since March.
As far as I can make out, for Galicia at least but I think it applies to many other areas in Spain and other European countries, there is little backward contact tracing being done now. This may have been different in March when tracing was done for very few cases anyway as there were other more urgent needs and so much less known about Covid-19 than now. So the question of where did you get infected is not really addressed. The aim is to quickly identify recent close contacts (within the last two days or so) of a known infected person and test them and request them to isolate.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I meant the news reporting about concrete cases in Spain and in particular along the Camino when I said "murky". This isn't a Covid-19 phenomenon. A news article about a local event or incident is published. It gets picked up and spread by news agencies or by national news media. Maybe even translated into other languages. It changes. It doesn't get altered or "faked" on purpose, it just gets edited a bit, some things are left out because they are deemed unimportant for the new audience or they get a little misunderstood because of lack of local knowledge by the far-away new editor. And not only by the editor but also by the people who compose a headline that hopefully catches an audience.

A recent article that caused much indignation and outrage in online camino forums is a good example. The original local article mentioned that a person was "transferred to HULA". Readers in the region will know what HULA is but a wider audience doesn't know. So the word HULA disappeared from many of the subsequent articles and with it the mention of any transfer. Yet it seems to be a crucial bit of information to me who was trying to understand what really happened. I am resigned to the fact that I will never know.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Thanks, @Kathar1na, for the extra information you often provide on forum topics. For me the word murky still describes many things related to covid-19.
I see you have a new avatar...incognito.😊
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
There was a post in one of the camino groups on Facebook where an albergue/gîte owner describes how one of the pilgrims/walkers staying at his place knocked on his door in the middle of the night and told him that he was not feeling well: headache, shuddering, tummy ache and so on, and what happened during the next hours and days. I won't go into more details.

It struck me how deeply divided forum/online opinions are: the constant and repetitive "stay at home, don't travel, you are irresponsible" appeals; the belief that it will be alright if one follows the recommendations of hand hygiene, distancing, face masks etc and raving reports about how glorious it is to walk right now in Spain and Portugal.

Nobdy seems willing to address what one can do to prepare for all eventualities: downloading and using the recommended warning app; keeping a contact diary; thinking about what to do if one has first mild symptoms that could be Covid-19 or numerous other ailments and being ready and determined to do it; thinking about what to do while waiting for Covid-19 test results which can apparently take anything between hours and days (in France or Spain) and being prepared to do it. 🤔
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
Nobdy seems willing to address what one can do to prepare for all eventualities: downloading and using the recommended warning app; keeping a contact diary; thinking about what to do if one has first mild symptoms that could be Covid-19 or numerous other ailments and being ready and determined to do it; thinking about what to do while waiting for Covid-19 test results
You just have. Brava.

Responsible pilgrims should be doing all these things. Irresponsible ones won't, and won't care. That's the challenge.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
You just have. Brava.

Responsible pilgrims should be doing all these things. Irresponsible ones won't, and won't care. That's the challenge.
For me, it isn't the fear of catching the virus that affect my decisions and behaviour...it is the fear of spreading it.
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
We know. You've made that very clear. ;)
And. Most the things that @Kathar1na was speaking of require the kind of forethought, vigilance, and care that do protect others. If someone's doing all that it's likely that they will also be wearing a mask in towns, washing their hands, maintaining social distance, and whatever else is necessary to keep others safe.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
We know. You've made that very clear. ;)
And. Most the things that @Kathar1na was speaking of require the kind of forethought, vigilance, and care that do protect others. If someone's doing all that it's likely that they will also be wearing a mask in towns, washing their hands, maintaining social distance, and whatever else is necessary to keep others safe.
I am not disagreeing...in actual fact I agree with most of what has been said.
It comes down to basics....and these basics are not being understood by a minority which will drive this problem onward.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Responsible pilgrims should be doing all these things
Making use of an official warning app (none available yet where I live but available now for download for staying and travelling in Spain) and keeping a contact diary are fairly novel ideas for me personally. And so is the idea of "what would I do if I were away from home and suspect one morning that I may have gotten the virus despite having taken all possible precautions but it may also be just a cold or something gone bad that I ate yesterday".

I don't exclude the possibility that this may be also a novel idea for one or two others. 😎
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Making use of an official warning app (none available yet where I live but just become available in Spain) and keeping a contact diary are fairly novel ideas for me personally. And so is the idea of "what would I do if I were away from home and suspect one morning that I may have gotten the virus despite having taken all possible precautions but it may also be just a cold or something gone bad that I ate yesterday". I don't exclude the possibility that it may be a novel idea for one or two others. 😎
It is very important. On the whole it is something that camino walkers do very well...to document where they have been and who they have seen and come into contact with. It is very important to be able to track and trace if anyone should be infected.
It is one of the tools in the armoury in being able to minimise the spread and being able to get back to a (new) normality.

Edit: the camino passport does this very well.
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
For me, it isn't the fear of catching the virus that affect my decisions and behaviour...it is the fear of spreading it.
I am very concerned about being a spreader of the virus, but I am also equally concerned about contracting it myself. Being in the somewhat older population group I do have a worry as self preservation is paramount to all forms of life. I definately respect the wellbeing and lives of others, but I also care deeply about my own quality of life and it seems some who contract the virus are possibly left with longstanding health issues. I do not want that for myself...If I am honest, I do think I have a "fear" of that. Both carrying and contracting the virus are affecting my decisions equally.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
We've been discussing this and have been making statements about it for up to six months now. We are concerned for our own health and that of others. Most of us are not walking a camino. Most of us have no plans to walk a camino in the next few weeks or months. If I'm not mistaken, some of us have never walked a camino so far.

I touched on the topic of thinking about what to do when on camino because the topic is "Covid positive pilgrims arriving in SDC (if any)" and because there have been two cases I know of so far where a pilgrim/walker either tested positive or thought s/he may be infected while walking and their subsequent behaviour (as reported - whether it reflects the reality is another question altogether). Although I know next to nothing about their character I guess they did not set out to get infected and did not expect to get infected ...
 
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pelerine

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte 10, Primitivo 13, Plata 14+15, Salvador 16, Torres 17, Portugues 18, Mozarabe 19
For me, it isn't the fear of catching the virus that affect my decisions and behaviour...it is the fear of spreading it.
Both, I should think....

QUOTE="Bristle boy, post: 868963, member: 80551"]
....to document where they have been and who they have seen and come into contact with. It is very important to be able to track and trace if anyone should be infected.....
[/QUOTE]

Lots of good suggestions in the above posts, but I for one, do not normally get the details of everybody I come into contact with, so would not be able track and trace them later on.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Both, I should think....

QUOTE="Bristle boy, post: 868963, member: 80551"]
....to document where they have been and who they have seen and come into contact with. It is very important to be able to track and trace if anyone should be infected.....
Lots of good suggestions in the above posts, but I for one, do not normally get the details of everybody I come into contact with, so would not be able track and trace them later on.
[/QUOTE]
It is a trade off. As long as I do everything I can to protect others (and they do likewise) then I have, by default, protected myself.
The second part of your post is much more complicated.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I can naturally keep track of my small group of family and friends locally, however where have they been and who have they seen in their circles that I don't know about. At the grocery store everyone is required to wear a mask, but are they foolproof...doubt it. Tracking infections is "murky" at best. I do keep the calendar on my phone as detailed as possible as to where I go or who I am with, which would hopefully help with the complicated issue of tracking if need be and quite easy to do.
 

pelerine

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte 10, Primitivo 13, Plata 14+15, Salvador 16, Torres 17, Portugues 18, Mozarabe 19
Lots of good suggestions in the above posts, but I for one, do not normally get the details of everybody I come into contact with, so would not be able track and trace them later on.
Quoting myself here. I was talking about people you have contact with on the camino. You are right of course, Bristle boy!
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Quoting myself here. I was talking about people you have contact with on the camino. You are right of course, Bristle boy!
I would guess that on camino you would have a better record than you would in ordinary life. Many keep blogs and records. Photographs and, of course, the stamped credential.
 

psheehan

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF, CPo, CdN, CPr, F, CS, CV, CI, VdlP, CS, CA
There was a post in one of the camino groups on Facebook where an albergue/gîte owner describes how one of the pilgrims/walkers staying at his place knocked on his door in the middle of the night and told him that he was not feeling well: headache, shuddering, tummy ache and so on, and what happened during the next hours and days. I won't go into more details.

It struck me how deeply divided forum/online opinions are: the constant and repetitive "stay at home, don't travel, you are irresponsible" appeals; the belief that it will be alright if one follows the recommendations of hand hygiene, distancing, face masks etc and raving reports about how glorious it is to walk right now in Spain and Portugal.

Nobdy seems willing to address what one can do to prepare for all eventualities: downloading and using the recommended warning app; keeping a contact diary; thinking about what to do if one has first mild symptoms that could be Covid-19 or numerous other ailments and being ready and determined to do it; thinking about what to do while waiting for Covid-19 test results which can apparently take anything between hours and days (in France or Spain) and being prepared to do it. 🤔

I'm curious to know, if for example you are currently walking the Camino and let's say you are not Spanish and you test positive for Covid-19, what do you do? Is there something in place by the Spanish health authority for you to self isolate and recover... or do you have to find a hotel/health centre who are willing to let you stay until you recover?
 

pelerine

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte 10, Primitivo 13, Plata 14+15, Salvador 16, Torres 17, Portugues 18, Mozarabe 19
I would not have the details to contact people like tel nos, e-mail, etc Exchange these with very few... Photographs and my stamped credential would not help. However as Kathar1na suggests, I would have to get used to keeping a contact diary.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
I'm curious to know, if for example you are currently walking the Camino and let's say you are not Spanish and you test positive for Covid-19, what do you do? Is there something in place by the Spanish health authority for you to self isolate and recover... or do you have to find a hotel/health centre who are willing to let you stay until you recover?
What a good question.
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
I would not have the details to contact people like tel nos, e-mail, etc Exchange these with very few... Photographs and my stamped credential would not help. However as Kathar1na suggests, I would have to get used to keeping a contact diary.
As I said...its complicated. You can only give the information to tracers (if there are any) to allow the tracing to take place.
 

Jomas

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
VF many times. Monaco-Lindau '15. Assisi-Pietralcina '17. CF '18. VF small part 09/20 next
I'm curious to know, if for example you are currently walking the Camino and let's say you are not Spanish and you test positive for Covid-19, what do you do? Is there something in place by the Spanish health authority for you to self isolate and recover... or do you have to find a hotel/health centre who are willing to let you stay until you recover?
if you have symptoms that can lead to Cov Sars 2 you should only contact the emergency and assistance numbers of the health authority of the place where you are.
Nobody can host you and you would be legally punished if you independently move to other areas. Even to the hospital or emergency room with your own means. If you can't do it, the owner of the facility you are in or the person who is welcoming your need for help must do it.
Of course, all the appropriate health checks will follow and if it is positive there will be a mandatory quarantine. Where is it? It depends on the severity .... either in the same hospital or in an accommodation facility identified by the health authority in or in a private accommodation (hotel, B&B, ...) that will be suggested to you. In this last case there will be the fiduciary quarantine. And you will still be monitored by the medical staff. It could be entirely your own expense or partially your own expense. Here in Italy, but not everywhere, the difference is paid by the region you are in or by the health company itself. But that's the smallest part!
Surely you will be asked to give information on the places you have visited and the people you have been in contact with. But easy to say ... difficult then to go and "recover" everyone .... even if you have noted the data of those you met. As long as they are willing to give it to you ..... privacy!
From what I understand, the traceability app is useful for the after and not for the before having contracted the virus. Albergue owners must keep track of pilgrims and will be among the first to be contacted.
Like restaurant managers or any other hospitality structure.
For the return to your country of origin there may be other tasks to be faced ..... it depends from state to state and where you are coming from ...
I am writing this to say that from the moment they diagnose you with virus positivity you are in their hands and must follow their rules ...
 

Bristle boy

If not now...when? If not you...who?...........
Camino(s) past & future
2019
if you have symptoms that can lead to Cov Sars 2 you should only contact the emergency and assistance numbers of the health authority of the place where you are.
Nobody can host you and you would be legally punished if you independently move to other areas. Even to the hospital or emergency room with your own means. If you can't do it, the owner of the facility you are in or the person who is welcoming your need for help must do it.
Of course, all the appropriate health checks will follow and if it is positive there will be a mandatory quarantine. Where is it? It depends on the severity .... either in the same hospital or in an accommodation facility identified by the health authority in or in a private accommodation (hotel, B&B, ...) that will be suggested to you. In this last case there will be the fiduciary quarantine. And you will still be monitored by the medical staff. It could be entirely your own expense or partially your own expense. Here in Italy, but not everywhere, the difference is paid by the region you are in or by the health company itself. But that's the smallest part!
Surely you will be asked to give information on the places you have visited and the people you have been in contact with. But easy to say ... difficult then to go and "recover" everyone .... even if you have noted the data of those you met. As long as they are willing to give it to you ..... privacy!
From what I understand, the traceability app is useful for the after and not for the before having contracted the virus. Albergue owners must keep track of pilgrims and will be among the first to be contacted.
Like restaurant managers or any other hospitality structure.
For the return to your country of origin there may be other tasks to be faced ..... it depends from state to state and where you are coming from ...
I am writing this to say that from the moment they diagnose you with virus positivity you are in their hands and must follow their rules ...
Wouldn't this all be easier just to stay home.
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
I'm curious to know, if for example you are currently walking the Camino and let's say you are not Spanish and you test positive for Covid-19, what do you do?
I am writing this to say that from the moment they diagnose you with virus positivity you are in their hands and must follow their rules ...
Very good question, and one anyone who walks should seriously consider. @Jomas, your response is sobering, and a very good reality check for those who think going to walk right now (especially if you don't live in Spain) is without potential risk.

Given that all of this is expensive and potentially inconvenient I wonder how many people get sick and do not report it. For a foreigner with a mild case and no scruples, all that is disincentive to say anything - with potentially tragic consequences for any locals or fellow pilgrims who are vulnerable.
 

Jomas

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
VF many times. Monaco-Lindau '15. Assisi-Pietralcina '17. CF '18. VF small part 09/20 next
Given that all of this is expensive and potentially inconvenient I wonder how many people get sick and do not report it. For a foreigner with a mild case and no scruples, all that is disincentive to say anything - with potentially tragic consequences for any locals or fellow pilgrims who are vulnerable.
I can only agree with you ... and the facts are showing some general irresponsibility :((no accusation to anyone in particular)

@Jomas, your response is sobering, and a very good reality check for those who think going to walk right now (especially if you don't live in Spain) is without potential risk.
maybe I'm misunderstanding your sentence ...I'm inviting people to make the walk?

edit: oh sorry ... now I understand the meaning :rolleyes:
 

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