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Creating more sub forums for the smaller routes?

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
A recent post in the forum included a link to the site http://www.gronze.com/ .

This site has a great map of all the various routes that exists (and there are quite a few). Many of them feed into the Camino Francés, and we are not currently promoting/including these smaller routes in this forum.

Looking at this map:
http://www.gronze.com/camino-de-santiag ... erales.htm

What do you think of including these smaller routes in the forum? (Creating a forum for each route, most likely under the Camino Francés route).

Would this be of interest? Would it be useful of maybe just "too much"?

Any thoughts on this?

Saludos,
Ivar
 
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What? You want more work? :shock: Just kidding.

Since this forum is all about information on the Camino de Santiago, I would vote for finding a way to include these smaller routes. Since you've broken up the Camino Frances forum into smaller forums already, what about a single inclusive "All other smaller routes" forum? That way, you can see what the interest is & if it warrants giving that route its own forum.

Kelly
 
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I was always surprised to see the Vezelay, Le Puy and Paris routes under Camino Frances when I think they would be better served under their own headings. There may not be as many posts as under the CF but I wonder how long it will be before the CF sinks under the weight of pilgrims and therefore alternatives should be given, if anything, more prominence. I was also surprised to see, on the link to the map, that the Camino Mozarabe I just finished is not shown.
 
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There seems to be a small but serious demand for info on the smaller routes, as there is little which is published or on the internet in English on them. Creating a few subfora would make their research easier. Of course, the unkind would suggest that those insane enough to try the smaller routes should be kept on a separate board, where they could be watched and receive therapy. :wink:
 

sillydoll

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Ivar, perhaps we need two sections - Routes in France, Routes in Spain - with their own sub-sections?
 
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AJ

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oursonpolaire said:
There seems to be a small but serious demand for info on the smaller routes, as there is little which is published or on the internet in English on them. Creating a few subfora would make their research easier. Of course, the unkind would suggest that those insane enough to try the smaller routes should be kept on a separate board, where they could be watched and receive therapy. :wink:


The "smaller" routes are therapy in themselves: that's why we do them.
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for all your feedback!

I like the idea of creating a new section for the shorter routes that feed into the camino frances, and then having one forum for each one under that heading. I will then move the Vezelay, Le Puy and the Paris route under this new heading.

Will look into this tomorrow.

Saludos,
Ivar
 
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Deleted member 397

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Good idea Ivar but they are hardly the 'shorter routes'-Le Puy and Vezelay are at least equal in distance to the pyrenees ( the Paris route would be longer) than the CF itself. The VDLP is 1000 kms, The via Mozarabe is 1200 kms. The short, and most resourced, route is the CF.
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
omar504 said:
Good idea Ivar but they are hardly the 'shorter routes'-Le Puy and Vezelay are at least equal in distance to the pyrenees ( the Paris route would be longer) than the CF itself. The VDLP is 1000 kms, The via Mozarabe is 1200 kms. The short, and most resourced, route is the CF.
Good point. I guess "shorter routes" is not a good way to describe them. Will think of something else.

Greetings from still sunny Santiago,
Ivar
 

jl

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Hello Ivar,

Sil's idea of a section called French routes seems very valuable, with sub forums for the main paths. There are many people (not as many as on the Camino frances though) walking the Le Puy route each year, although some only walk for a week or so and then come back and do the next leg the following year. The next most popular French route seems to be the Vezelay one, although from what I can gather there are no where near as many pilgrims on that one.

I know from experience, it is very difficult to find out information in English about the routes in France, and so anything you are able to do to make the sorting of information easier would be a wonderful help. I have also found from experience that it is even harder to find out information about paths from Geneva to Le Puy, and from Reims to Vezelay

Thank you for all you do to facilitate the help we give each other - I know it is appreciated by many.

Janet
 
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Dale

Active Member
I think this is a great idea too. I'm looking at walking the Le Puy route to the Pyrenees and then the Camino Del Norte in 2010 and I think it would be great to have separate areas of the Forum for these routes. :lol:
 

Bridget and Peter

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jl said:
The next most popular French route seems to be the Vezelay one, although from what I can gather there are no where near as many pilgrims on that one.

We are just home from nearly three weeks cycling our second stage - Reims - Vezelay - Limoges (well, technically Flavignac). Brief posts on our blog - I will be transferring the daily log and adding photos as time goes by - there's lots to say!

We met no other pilgrims this year from Reims to Vezelay (4 belgians last year cycling from Antwerp), and between Vezelay and Flavignac we shared real time (refuges, meals) with 1 from Holland, 1 from Canada (french speaking), 3 from France and bumped into 1 german, 3 more french people and 2 nationality unidentified. All except 1 were men and all except 1 over middle age (like us). From the comments books in the refuges there seem to have been very few english speakers at all over the years.

I vote for separate forums for the 4 French routes. Does being a sub forum make any difference, apart from locating it? And maybe one for routes from further afield? (like Holland, Poland etc)

I will post further soon, but need to go to bed now!
 

Theo

Active Member
Very good idea, Ivar.

The Breton Association of the friends of St-James of Compostela is trying to make the pilgrims want to walk on the St-James routes in Brittany.

For that, we know a lot of things remain to be done.

By putting some information about these “smaller” routes on your web site, it will be easier for us. The forum readers can be also very keen to find the existence of these routes.

The Breton Association is improving, described and promotes the routes laid out through Brittany and beyond, with the help of neighbouring associations, to the Tours route (Via Turonensis).

We waymarked the routes and published 3 guide books (only in French until now).

Your forum can help us to give to the pilgrims the possibility to find another way to walk to Santiago...

... and what a tremendous challenge to walk on a "camino" between two such famous shrines as Mont-St-Michel and Santiago !

The map of the Breton routes :
3cheminsBZHr.jpg


Théo
http://www.saint-jacques-compostelle-bretagne.fr/santjakez-accueil-en.htm
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
William Marques said:
Maybe "Routes in France" rather than "French Routes" to avoid confusion with the Camino Frances (French Camino).
Hi all,

There is now a section called Routes in France, here with 5 routes in France listed:
routes-in-france/

Question: The Paris route should maybe be called the Tours route?

I have also added a section called "Routes connecting with the Camino Francés":
routes-connecting-with-the-camino-frances/
.. and added a few routes there.

My thinking is that since the French route is getting more and more populated, to maybe start promoting some of the other alternatives (although they connect with the Camino Francés later on).

Since I am not an expert on these routes, I hope someone will let me know if there is something that needs to be corrected.

Saludos,
Ivar

PS: If it turns out that there is no activity on some of these new sections, I might decide to merge some of them later. But for now, let's see how it works out.
 
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jl

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Thank you Ivar, I have just had a look at the board index and it is is nice and clear - very easy to follow. Thanks again, Janet
 
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Very nice Ivar. By the way I notice under the "Routes to Santiago" you have via de la plata but not Camino Mozarabe-I know that it joins the VDLP but only after 400kms from Granada so maybe that heading could be "Via del Plata/Camino Mozarabe". It is one of the lesser known routes that has a guide book in English so it might become more popular. Others might like to express an opinion too.
 

William Marques

Moderator
Staff member
When I was on the VdlP in 2000 I thought at the time it was also the Camino Mozarabe. The claming of the name by the Granadans only occured some time later is I recall. Perhaps Peter can give us the authorative answer on this one.
 

sillydoll

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Perhaps you could include a map somewhere on the website or blog?
 

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William Marques said:
When I was on the VdlP in 2000 I thought at the time it was also the Camino Mozarabe. The claming of the name by the Granadans only occured some time later is I recall. Perhaps Peter can give us the authorative answer on this one.
Bit like 'Via Francigena'! It's a generic term; all roads from Mozarabic areas might be described as a 'camino mozarabe', just as any road from France/Francia might be described as a via francigena. It would be more accurate to call them 'Camino Mozarabe de Sevilla', '... de Cordoba', or something like that.
 
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ivar

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Thanks for good feedback!

I have renamed the Via de la Plata forum to: "Camino Mozárabe from Seville (Via de la Plata) and from Cordoba". Thanks for the clarification.

I agree that I need to come up with some sort of map. I don't feel like using one without permission, so I need to think of something. I might just do some screen shots of google maps, with a start and end point. I was thinking of adding a map for each camino.

Don't have time today, but it is on my to-do-list. :)

Saludos,
Ivar
 
I was meaning the roads would be better called 'C M de S' etc. For the forum, I think you can just use Camino Mozarabe as a generic term for all roads from the south, so I'd agree with omar54's "Via de la Plata/Camino Mozarabe". Though if you use the plural, is it Caminos Mozarabe or Caminos Mozarabes???
 

sillydoll

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Peter, I don't agree with your definition for this forum. The CSJ describes the Camino Mozarabe as being from Granada to Mérida and the VdlP as being from Seville.
There are probably many more routes that come from the south but we don't want to confuse pilgrims who are already confused!
 

William Marques

Moderator
Staff member
I have to agree with Peter and I will get my CSJ guide from 1999 out tonight to check as I think they called it the Camino Mozarabe in those days, the VdlP being the Roman road to Gijon.

The Amigos in Seville also refer to the route as the "Camino Mozárabe de Santiago".
 
http://www.csj.org.uk/route-via-de-la-plata.htm

The term 'Via de la Plata' is frequently misused anyway. It means 'stone-paved road' and the only section of the Roman road that was paved was Merida-Salamanca.

According to Isaac Moreno http://traianus.rediris.es/astorga2006/01moreno.pdf
'Al norte de Salamanca, ningún camino se llamó "de la Plata" en la documentación anterior al siglo xx.'
[No road north of Salamanca is called 'de la Plata' in documents prior to the 20th century.]
 
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Because Wikipedia is NEVER wrong:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Vía de La Plata (English: Silver Way) or Ruta de la Plata (English: Silver Route) is an old commercial path that crosses the west of Spain from north to south, connecting Merida to Astorga, and in extension Sevilla with the Cantabric Sea, in Gijón. According to folk etymology, although the term Vía de la Plata apparently comes from 'silver', it is in fact related to the Arabic, balata, which means 'paved'.

Currently, the path is used by the modern A-66 and AP-66 freeways, as well as by the older N-630 national road.

Pre-Roman era

The historical origins of this route are currently uncertain. It is believed, based on diverse archaeological findings, that the route was used for commercial purposes involving tin. Tin was present in many regions of the Iberian Peninsula including Tartessos. Therefore, it is more appropriate to call the Vía de La Plata the "Tin Way."

Roman causeway
Historical Caceres.

The "Tin Way" was used as an access road, which allowed the Romans to conquer tribes such as the Callaici, the Astures, and the Vacceos. Many sources, among them the Antonine Itinerary, describe the route to leave from Emerita Augusta, (present-day Merida), capital of Lusitania, towards Asturica Augusta (present-day Astorga) through Tarraconensis.

The road contains compelling physical evidence that shows a Roman constructed road (called the, or a, via lata, or broad road) that has been virtually unchanged at various sections. It was conceived and built as a trade route for the exploitation of gold, as mentioned by Pliny the Elder who held high office as Procurator in Hispania Tarraconensis in 73 AD. It ran from Asturica Augusta (Astorga) in Northwestern Spain, to Emerita Augusta (Mérida) in Southwestern Spain. Hence Hannibal's armies, and their elephants, must have passed along it.

The road's first official name was Via Delapidata (or Paved Stone Way), stretched around 900 km (560 miles), and had a branch that joined with the Via Augusta (or Via Heraclea). After its establishment, the Via Delapidata crossed Hispania from Cadiz, through the Pyrenees, towards Gallia Narbonensis (southern France) and Rome in the Italian Peninsula. Currently, the road passes through Salmantica (Salamanca), Metelinum (Medellín), and Castra Caecilia (Cáceres). The Via Delapidata also served as an access road from Hispania Baetica.

The "Silver Way" was, technically, never a belt road for silver commerce. The name was transmogrified from Via Delapidata to Via de la Plata as a result of phonetic confusion. During the Reconquista, the Via Delapidata was pronounced by the Christians of the era as the Via de la Plata, which reflected their social orientation towards the accumulation or appreciation of gold.
 

sillydoll

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Peter, I agree with all you say, but this is the 21st C and most guide books, stories, maps etc., refer to the two routes in the 20th c way.
Via de la Plata or Silver Way (even the Spanish books call the VdlP the "Silver Way' when it doesn't have anything to do with silver).
Even Mundicamino lists the routes as, VdlP from Seville to Astorga and Camino Mozárabe from Granada to Mérida.

The Camino Sanabres (or Camino Meridional) runs off the Mozarabe to Santiago bypassing the camino Frances:

Granja de Moreruela - Tábara
Tábara - Santa Croya de Tera
Santa Croya de Tera - Rionegro del Puente
Rionegro Del Puente - Puebla De Sanabria
Puebla De Sanabria - Lubián
Lubián - A Gudiña
A Gudiña - Laza
Laza - Xunqueira de Ambía
Xunqueira de Ambía - Ourense
Ourense - Cea
Cea - A Laxe
A Laxe - Outeiro
Outeiro - Santiago
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
Peter Robins said:
I was meaning the roads would be better called 'C M de S' etc. For the forum, I think you can just use Camino Mozarabe as a generic term for all roads from the south, so I'd agree with omar54's "Via de la Plata/Camino Mozarabe". Though if you use the plural, is it Caminos Mozarabe or Caminos Mozarabes???
Sounds good. "Camino Mozárabe / Via de la Plata" it is :)

Greetings from a rainy Santiago,
Ivar
 

sillydoll

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The name was transmogrified from Via Delapidata to Via de la Plata as a result of phonetic confusion. During the Reconquista, the Via Delapidata was pronounced by the Christians of the era as the Via de la Plata

I recently read a delightful book by Philip Norman ( author of biographies on Elton John, The Beatles, Stones and Buddy Holly) entitled "Your Walrus Hurt The One You Love - Malapropisms, mispronunciations and linguistic cock-ups".

In the introduction he writes:

The fact is that the English are a nation of malapropists and that our language in its richest parts derives from our reluctance to pronounce any word - especially any foreign word - correctly, if we can help it. The urge to malaprop arises from three fine old English qualities. The first is unrepentant ignorance. The second is contempt for other races. The third is the steadfast belief that whatever any English person says must be right. Add to this our love of pun and conundrum and our deeply ingrained embarrassment about organised religion, and you can see how 'bloody' as an oath mutated from the sacrilegious "By Our Lady", or how a tavern named after the Infanta of Castille ended up as the Elephant and Castle.
 
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Deirdre

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Hi Ivar,
I love the addition of the maps! They look great! One question - the Santiago/Fisterra route doesn't include Muxía...? Thank you as always for all the work you do to keep this forum the best!
Buen Camino,
 
sillydoll said:
The Camino Sanabres (or Camino Meridional) runs off the Mozarabe to Santiago
Looks like Xacobeo are now calling this the Southeast Way, Camino del Sudeste, and downplaying the Via de la Plata name. http://www.xacobeo.es/index.php?idMenu= ... a=3&int1=9
Not on any account to be confused with the Southeast Way, Camino del Sureste, coming from Alicante, itself about 90% the same as the Camino de Levante, the Way from the East.

Perhaps they should use numbers, as with GRs and roads, instead of these vague names that could apply to any number of routes.
 

sillydoll

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Ay yay, yay, yay, yay! Confusion reigns!
 

Javier Martin

Veteran Member
Good idea, William!

And, watching the final map, I see there's three very small routes not painted:

1) Camino de Invierno (Between el Bierzo and Galicia)
2) A small route in Catalonia from Girona to link the Camino Catalan
3) A link between El Casar (Guadalajara, Ruta de la Lana) and the Camino de Madrid. Johnnie Walker talked about this several months ago.

Buen Camino, sea el que sea

Javier Martin
Madrid, Spain
 
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The via de la plata/camino mozarabe map does not show the route from granada which joins the vdlp at merida which might confuse some into thinking they are 2 names for one route
 
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kubapigora

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More sub-forums please!;)
I am planning to walk all the way to Santiago from Sobótka in Poland (near Wrocław; or Breslau as you like), so I will need some more information on the route in Poland and Germany (possibly also Swiss routes). Hopefully in the future we could create more and more forums to share our knowledge;)
Greetings from Poland.
 
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I once heard that the Via Augusta (http://www.mediambient.gencat.net/eng// ... /inici.jsp) was being signposted, but I know of no albergues/refugios. There is likely pilgrim accommodation at the Jesuit centre in Manresa as there is a pilgrim road following Saint Ignatius Loyola's footsteps, but I know of no details. The Amics de San Jaume in Barcelona might have more information.
 

Bridget and Peter

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kubapigora said:
More sub-forums please!;)
I am planning to walk all the way to Santiago from Sobótka in Poland (near Wrocław; or Breslau as you like), so I will need some more information on the route in Poland and Germany (possibly also Swiss routes). Hopefully in the future we could create more and more forums to share our knowledge;)
Greetings from Poland.

I think it would be good to have an all-encompassing sub forum for routes that begin further afield and lead to one of the French routes, including pilgrimages that start from people's front doors or are otherwise individually plotted. Then people like kubpigora would know where to start looking, and where to post information gained for future pilgrims walking from Poland.
 

Javier Martin

Veteran Member
grandelizarte said:
anyone got any info on the small route between girona and monserrat? are there any refugios do you know?
thank You!
X

Hi,

No albergues in that section. It was marked by the Generalitat, not by the associations, so the way is a turistic way, not so Camino de Santiago as it was really possible.

Buen Camino,

Javier Martin
Madrid, Spain.
 
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