Credential Misery

[505badgolfer]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

 

[SabsP]

Everything that is precious and valuable is worth waiting for.
And btw the people at the Office have lunch breaks.
Just enjoy the fact you finished your pilgrimage and go and grab a beverage of your choice.
Ultreïa!

 

[fraluchi]

One way or the other, we all had to bide our time to receive our Compostela (the credencial is your pilgrim "passport"). Many of us on this Forum have dedicated time working "ad honorem" at the pilgrim's office, and we know that sometimes unfortunately there are long lines to attend to. Particularly these days with more than a thousand arrivals. There are still some quieter hours in the day, and people should inform themselves of these to avoid too long a wait.

 

[trecile]

@505badgolfer Do you realize that the Pilgrim's office is staffed with volunteers? And the Compestela is free?

I got lucky last year. I got there about a half hour before closing time and there was only one other pilgrim ahead of me.

 

[SabsP]

One way or the other, we all had to bide our time to receive our Compostela (the credencial is your pilgrim "passport"). Many of us on this Forum have dedicated time working "ad honorem" at the pilgrim's office, and we know that sometimes unfortunately there are long lines to attend to. Particularly these days with more than a thousand arrivals. There are still some quieter hours in the day, and people should inform themselves of these to avoid too long a wait.

And thank you so much for your service @fraluchi !

 

[Former member 49149]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

Are you serious? Previous replies have been clear: this is not a duty, it is a service offered to every pilgrim. No monopoly. Tell us you are joking...

 

[Waka]

If you've walked 500 miles then another couple of hours is neither here nor there, as has said before the pilgrim office is manned by volunteers and they do there best to ensure everyone is catered for, a little patience goes a long way.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

They switched to volunteers a few years ago, and never have enough. The compostela is free, so you should not expect much. It is busy early this year, with about 150 more pilgrims per day than this time las

 

[Deleted member 67185]

A 'monopoly' is a term reserved associated with for-profit, commercial enterprises. As such, walking a pilgrimage, receiving a Compostela, or attending a church function, like the Pilgrim's Mass, is not even close to that kind of association. Yes, pilgrims buy goods and services as their pilgrimage on Camino takes place, but that is a function of transaction between a private, for-profit business and a consumer.

The giving of the Compostela is awarded to, not purchased by, those who meet the requirements of a pilgrimage. The Pilgrim Office is staffed by volunteers. There is no commercial enterprise associated with getting your Compostela. There are no competing interests, because the Compostela is a function of the Catholic Church for the spiritual welfare of its adherents.

As far as I can determine, nothing is stopping any other church denomination from offering a Compostela of their own. But, then again, other churches do not have pilgrimage requirements associated with them for the purposes of spiritual atonement.

It has been said, and I am paraphrasing here, that a Pilgrim displays humbleness and gratitude for what is received, while a tourist makes demands with a sense of entitlement.

I am thinking that you must have been tired and feeling a wee bit cranky from low blood sugar when you posted your comment. You achieved your goal with 500 miles to complete your pilgrimage. That is something to be proud of. Why let a measly 2.5 hours -- out of the many, many hours you have spent walking the Camino -- negatively color your experience?

 

[Rick M]

The OP is right about one thing, it DOES take a long time at the pilgrim office during the busy season, although as others have pointed out, you spent 35 days getting there more or less, whats a few extra hours? The line was several hours long when we arrived in May. So much so that I (and others in my party) skipped the Compostela altogether. After all, I already have one, and I know what I did. I DID stop in and get a last stamp ("sello sin Compostela, por favor") from the security guy at the gate. That took just two minutes.

 

[Stroller]

How long did it take to walk 500 mls.?
So 2.5 Hrs to finally get a piece of paper is not long.
I assume you volunteered to fill one of the empty places to speed the process?

 

[RJM]

The pilgrim's office is staffed by volunteers who do their best. Yes, I am sure the lines can be long, and other times there is no line. I had to wait an hour once. So what. You won't hear me complain about it and it was far from being misery (that term is almost comical in this context or in any description of the Camino). Another time there was literally no line and I walked straight to the counter.
The Camino is very popular. Anyone who embarks on walking it simply has to accept that.

 

[MikeyC]

..... we just pop by early in the morning the day after arriving.

 

[sunwanderer]

When we arrived and saw the long line, we left and returned the next day, and the line had disappeared.

 

[naplesdon]

How much is that piece of paper worth. Get up with your headlamp at 4am and start waiting in line.

 

[Annette london]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

Hi there 505
If you have the time
Maybe you could help the office out by volunteering your good self there.
I am sure that "they are dancing as fast as they can"
With best wishes
Annette

 

[Vacajoe]

The line is only that long when it opens! Come back during mass or near closing and it’ll be practically empty! Plus, as others have said, if a couple of hours is too much time from your life, perhaps you are not grasping what the Compostela is all about..

 

[Dennis D]

They first thing I say when I reach the person behind the counter issuing Compostelas is, "Thank you for volunteering, I really appreciate the time you are sacrificing for Pilgrims." I also thank them again when I leave. They are very special people and seem to be underappreciated by too many.

This year I anticipated a wait, so I brought a book to read. The time passed quickly.

Buen Camino

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I spent the time chatting to two absolutely charming Australian sisters - most enjoyable!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

The line is only that long when it opens! Come back during mass or near closing and it’ll be practically empty! Plus, as others have said, if a couple of hours is too much time from your life, perhaps you are not grasping what the Compostela is all about..

Nah, joined the queue about 1pm yesterday got "served" (by a nice Irish guy) about 4pm.

 

[glauder@xtra.co.nz]

So I wasnt going to bother with my compostella this camino as I didnt wish to queue but as I was walking back to my room tonight I asked a pilgrim holding his compostella how long the queue was Theres no queue he said so at 8pm I walked straight in and directly up to the counter and a delightful American woman printed out my compostella. No waiting.It was fantastic

 

[Jotown]

Likewise ... I waited from 4-45 to almost 8 pm , the ( same ?) Irish volunteer apologised for the long wait saying it was a very busy day !!

I told him not to worry , and thanked him for his voluntary services !!

 

[Deleted member 56069]

When I arrive in Santiago each time now I spend some time chatting with the other pilgrims I have walked with in the main church square. I take a lot of pictures, help others take their pictures in front of the cathedral. Just chill and enjoy the sense of accomplishment of another walk completed.
If I have not pre-booked a place, I find some accommodation, share a few bottles of wine and have a nice leisurely meal with friends.
The next morning, I arrive at the pilgrim office about a half hour before they open. In early April when I have walked each time the line is usually about 10 to 15 people. In and out in 20 minutes. If it is a longer wait, no worries at all. After each walk I am so positively relaxed, pretty much nothing phases me anymore.
If you feel yourself getting upset at the end of a pilgrimage about anything, you kind of missed the point of it.

 

[Mark61]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

Finished mid-May and we had to wait 2-3 hours too. I think it's going to be longer as the summer starts. I had to wait 57 years to get my credential...

 

[Vacajoe]

1pm is POST the pilgrims’ mass - so not a surprise that the line was long again

 

[Deleted member 56069]

Finished mid-May and we had to wait 2-3 hours too. I think it's going to be longer as the summer starts. I had to wait 57 years to get my credential...

And I thought 54 years was way too long...some one always has it worse it seems. Walked with a friend on the Portuguese Camino and she advised it was a 75 year wait for her when she walked the Frances route...lol.

 

[domigee]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

I don’t want to be mean but...I don’t understand your post.... “The misery you are in store for”...Hello? WHAT misery? What competition? Too shocked to comment further.

 

[WalkonBy]

Everything that is precious and valuable is worth waiting for.
And btw the people at the Office have lunch breaks.
Just enjoy the fact you finished your pilgrimage and go and grab a beverage of your choice.
Ultreïa!

Nicely put domigee.

 

[WalkonBy]

How long does it take before my status is upgraded from New Member. Just ask'n

 

[domigee]

Nicely put domigee.

I think the ‘nicely put’ refers to Sabine’s post. I don’t do ‘nicely’

 

[domigee]

How long does it take before my status is upgraded from New Member. Just ask'n

I think it has to do with the number of posts.... And... you should be able to change your status yourself, if I am not mistaken.... Anyone?

 

[Bradypus]

How long does it take before my status is upgraded from New Member. Just ask'n

If you get fed up waiting you can change it yourself.

 

[SabsP]

I think the ‘nicely put’ refers to Sabine’s post. I don’t do ‘nicely’

 

[Anamiri]

With the volume of pilgrim numbers increasing each year, and the office being manned by volunteers, I think the Pilgrim Office can only be commended for the job they do.

 

[Saint Mike II]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

Hola 505
No its not a monopoly; its an issue of procedure. My advice - on arrival in SDC find your accommodation; have a long (hot) shower; change into non pilgrim clothes and find the nearest bar. Next morning after a good nights sleep and proper breakfast head up to the Pilgrim Office (arriving around 9.00 am) and your waiting time should be around 45-65 mins. You will find fellow pilgrims you may have encountered "up the track" and have not seen for 3 or 5 days. These catching-up experiences further complete your pilgrim experience. Cheers

 

[miffy]

Wow ...not going well for the OP.

I see he is a 'badgolfer'. Perhaps a bit more patience with his golf might help him improve that, too.

 

[Former member 49149]

How long does it take before my status is upgraded from New Member. Just ask'n

thanks for asking the question. It takes 2 seconds, thanks to domigee and Bradypus for your replies.

 

[Deleted member 59555]

@505badgolfer Do you realize that the Pilgrim's office is staffed with volunteers? And the Compestela is free?

I got lucky last year. I got there about a half hour before closing time and there was only one other pilgrim ahead of me.

Far out you did get lucky.

 

[David and Theresa]

This was a depressing post, got to the pilgrims office, stood in line for two hours, backpack outside in the rain, laughed and joked , loved every minute of the wait, Compostella and distance certificate promanently displayed in shadow box with passport full of stamps, blessed

 

[Albertagirl]

My last day on the VDlP last fall was interesting, and tiring, including getting off trail and struggling through a thorny jungle for a while. So when I arrived I checked into San Martin Pinario and relaxed for the rest of the day, showing up at the Pilgrim Office first thing in the morning, after a good rest. I had completely forgotten that the first few arrivals of the morning receive a ticket entitling them to lunch at the Parador. So I enjoyed a lovely lunch with other recent arrivals. Thanks to all those who take care of pilgrims in Santiago.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

As some off you know I worked as a volunteer for two weeks last month in the Huiskamer at the first floor above the Pilgrimsoffice.
And than you see and hear things and they are not always nice ( mildly said ).
People who are voluntering where ever they do that are devoted to do this .

And yes , waiting in line is part of the proces

Wish everybody well , Peter .

 

[Rich1]

We recently spent 2 hours in the queue...during that time a lady recognised me from my 2015 Camino...so I was very, very glad of that queue
Time in queues is time to think, time to reflect, time to watch, time to listen, time to meet and time to talk.

 

[Cam1952]

I have walked the CF twice and will be walking the CP this year....and in all honesty I have received a Certificate for both times walking. The interesting thing for me is the lack of value this piece of paper means to me. I gave my certificates to my parents, and feel I carry “my certificate” inside of me every day.
I have known people unable to finish their Camino in Santiago for a variety of reasons.... in every case I consider their first step on the Camino a testament to their commitment and a success. I know everyone on the Camino comes away changed for the better.
I don’t begrudge the certificates, hey I’ve got them (sort of) but in my experience it’s a nice to have, not an obligation or requirement.

 

[gloria lowe]

I went at 730am last year and got a free lunch at the Parador just for being early. Be grateful you made it and thank the volunteers working there. It’s an honor not a privilege.

 

[MagnusPompey]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

Do you really need a certificate to prove anything. I have now walked on three different Caminos and made it to Santiago once, but my life is not going to change if I have a certificate to prove it. So I didn’t bother, even for that once. It is the journey not the destination.

 

[Bala]

Wow. 500 miles, and it all ends in "misery." Because you voluntarily stood in a line to receive a free certificate? Which is "monopoly"? Due to a lack of "competition"?

I think there's a big misunderstanding here of what this is all about. Starting with the name of the document you received.

 

[Diane Booth]

I think the ‘nicely put’ refers to Sabine’s post. I don’t do ‘nicely’

Not

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

I’m sitting here in Portomarín, I have walked 40+ days, I have about 90k to finish. I have walked through blisters, a sprained instep that laid me up 3 days in Astorga. I’m sorry but honest to god if I have to wait 12 hours standing on 1 foot with my hands tied behind my back so be it. I will be done, I will enjoy the wait and I will feel only gratitude for a body that took me there. Roll on Santiago, so close!!

 

[Jotown]

Whilst at the English mass at the Cathedral this morning I saw the same volunteer, and his volunteer companion... again I had the pleasure of thanking him for his efforts - he told me that he is ‘on duty ‘ 5 hours a day for two weeks, in the pressured environment of the Pilgrims office ...all for no pay ... and he pays his own flights !!

He was also at the mass welcoming all pilgrims - wonderful and the true spirit of the Camino ...


He then ‘awarded’ me ...

A pin badge from the Irish association ... again thank you ( Michael ?) and all you volunteer helpers !!

 

[celinehenriette]

You could have walked to Rome, took me 2 minutes to receive my certificate after I arrived
And the reason it took sooooooo long was because the guy spelled my name wrong.

 

[Camino Lily]

When we arrived and saw the long line, we left and returned the next day, and the line had disappeared.

+1 We arrived in Santiago on a cold & rainy day. I am sure it would have felt miserable on that day. Much better spirits after a hot shower & breakfast the next morning - oh and no lines!

 

[MTowers]

A 'monopoly' is a term reserved associated with for-profit, commercial enterprises. As such, walking a pilgrimage, receiving a Compostela, or attending a church function, like the Pilgrim's Mass, is not even close to that kind of association. Yes, pilgrims buy goods and services as their pilgrimage on Camino takes place, but that is a function of transaction between a private, for-profit business and a consumer.

The giving of the Compostela is awarded to, not purchased by, those who meet the requirements of a pilgrimage. The Pilgrim Office is staffed by volunteers. There is no commercial enterprise associated with getting your Compostela. There are no competing interests, because the Compostela is a function of the Catholic Church for the spiritual welfare of its adherents.

As far as I can determine, nothing is stopping any other church denomination from offering a Compostela of their own. But, then again, other churches do not have pilgrimage requirements associated with them for the purposes of spiritual atonement.

It has been said, and I am paraphrasing here, that a Pilgrim displays humbleness and gratitude for what is received, while a tourist makes demands with a sense of entitlement.

I am thinking that you must have been tired and feeling a wee bit cranky from low blood sugar when you posted your comment. You achieved your goal with 500 miles to complete your pilgrimage. That is something to be proud of. Why let a measly 2.5 hours -- out of the many, many hours you have spent walking the Camino -- negatively color your experience?

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Gerard Murdoch]

I reckon that 505badgolfer, has got the message about waiting in the queue for his Compostela.
I would think this person was unaware of the volunteer situation at the Office and does not realise the wonderful job the volunteers do. Maybe there are a lot of Pilgrims out there who do not realise this either.
Knowledge is a great thing that should be shared. I would cut this person some slack. IMHO

 

[J F Gregory]

When a person walk off season there was no wait. On our winter walk there were more staff than pilgrims.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

When a person walk off season there was no wait. On our winter walk there were more staff than pilgrims.

January 2018 averaged 54 per day with as few as 26. Even with shorter hours at the office, that is about 5 pilgrims per hour...

 

[ELHS220]

I am currently 100 miles out from Santiago, walking the Norte (Oviedo-Avilés-Santiago), and I will be serving as a volunteer at the Pilgrim Office from June 11-25. Maybe they just don’t have enough volunteers at the present time. When I finished the Francés last year, I went early the next morning, there wasn’t much of a line. Things were moving quickly, and it looked like the counter was fully staffed.

 

[David Manzo]

What time does the office open each morning? A HUGE thanks to all those volunteers!!!

 

[SabsP]

What time does the office open each morning? A HUGE thanks to all those volunteers!!!

https://oficinadelperegrino.com/en/pilgrims-reception-office/

 

[Icacos]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

@505badgolfer, I hope you have managed well and truly to take all this flak in stride and have put it behind you and moved on. When someone makes even a slight error in judgment in a posting we forum members do seem to jump in with arms and legs flailing . I am sending positive thoughts your way, and a virtual pat on the back. I am hoping to make it back sometime to walk the meseta, which I had to bus through last time, and I hope you can see yourself returning sometime too.

 

[Former member 49149]

I reckon that 505badgolfer, has got the message about waiting in the queue for his Compostela.
I would think this person was unaware of the volunteer situation at the Office and does not realise the wonderful job the volunteers do. Maybe there are a lot of Pilgrims out there who do not realise this either.
Knowledge is a great thing that should be shared. I would cut this person some slack. IMHO

Actually, yes, cut some slack. I was aware, from early in this thread, that perhaps the op had posted a bit prematurely. I did not know how to suggest that, because I might have been wrong. However, there has been no response, and I would hope that it can be swallowed and that the op can indeed pick up, turn around, and stride off into the sunset, and turn a new page for tomorrow.

 

[jmcarp]

A 'monopoly' is a term reserved associated with for-profit, commercial enterprises. As such, walking a pilgrimage, receiving a Compostela, or attending a church function, like the Pilgrim's Mass, is not even close to that kind of association.
...

Well said, @davebugg. I had to bite my tongue several times as I read the original post, but I knew I could not respond as diplomatically and gracefully as you.

 

[David Manzo]

https://oficinadelperegrino.com/en/pilgrims-reception-office/

Thank you!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Likewise ... I waited from 4-45 to almost 8 pm , the ( same ?) Irish volunteer apologised for the long wait saying it was a very busy day !!

I told him not to worry , and thanked him for his voluntary services !!

Silver cockleshell on a string around his neck, wrote left handed?
Told me how much he was enjoying it and said I'd have a great time in September.

 

[Sixwheeler]

Oh no, how awful for you. Those wretched volunteers not working hard enough for you, I wouldn't go there again.

 

[domigee]

@505badgolfer Apologies if I sounded a bit harsh. Hope all is sorted now and you have relaxed. Tell you what, I think you need another Camino (It is my usual answer to e-ve-ry-thing )
Best wishes for your return home.

 

[Saint Mike II]

Not


I’m sitting here in Portomarín, I have walked 40+ days, I have about 90k to finish. I have walked through blisters, a sprained instep that laid me up 3 days in Astorga. I’m sorry but honest to god if I have to wait 12 hours standing on 1 foot with my hands tied behind my back so be it. I will be done, I will enjoy the wait and I will feel only gratitude for a body that took me there. Roll on Santiago, so close!!

Hola @Diane Booth ; enjoy these last 90km, you will find that they go past too quickly. Stop and smell the roses/flowers; take some photos and when you reach Moto Gozo, be sure to walk over to the other view point (about 1 km south) to gaze down on the cathedral. Cheers & Buen Camino

 

[Walking Lover]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

I highly recommend staying close in to Santiago. Lavocola will work. In '16, we did this enabling us to get to Santiago wgen the office opened. We were out in 15 min. Last year, we arrived mid-afternoon and waited in line for about 3 hours.

 

[WalkonBy]

If you get fed up waiting you can change it yourself.

Never get fed up...?

 

[Jotown]

Silver cockleshell on a string around his neck, wrote left handed?
Told me how much he was enjoying it and said I'd have a great time in September.

Not sure Jeff, maybe his colleague as described - 2 joyful volunteers from Dublin !!

 

[Former member 59618]

I arrived at the pilgrim's office in Santiago today, after walking approximately 500 miles, and had to wait almost 2.5 hours to get my credentials. I wanted to alert those hikers getting close to the end of the misery you are in store for. After standing in line for hours, one finally approaches the office where the certificates are given. There is a board outside the room indicating that there are 17 places for pilgrims to get their certificates. When I finally entered the room, there were only 6 people manning the counter.

This is a classic case of a monopoly with no need or incentive to improve as it has no competition.

Misery? Change your lens, friend. I waited in line and was elated to greet the sweet volunteer who only had a smile for me (despite the thousands of pilgrims he may have greeted over the months). Sheeeeesh.

 

[micamino73]

They are unpaid volunteers...

 

[wayfarer]

I think the time has come to close this thread, the OP, I'm sure, has got all the information and opinion from the many and varied posts on this thread;.