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Crowd written guides to the secondary and tertiary caminos

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
Hello all. I’ve been tinkering around with an idea that I think would benefit the pilgrim community and I wanted to run it by the veterans here and the lurking future pilgrims too.

The idea is simple, and is meant to help pilgrims who would like to walk some of the lesser traveled routes to Santiago to get the best information available, by having them write it themselves for the pilgrims who follow behind.

I have the means and the experience to publish books and mobile apps, and that is what I would like to offer to the project… as well as a role in sifting though comments and notes to make sure the whole thing doesn’t become a big mess.

I see the individual guides evolving as such:
1. I will get it started by creating an app just like the others that I have made, specific to a camino. It will contain the usual places and distances and mapping capabilities, and will have at least some start of accommodation listings. This last part really depends on the route, and what I already have collected.
2. The app is free to use, and pilgrims who walk can leave comments along the way. Anything and everything is useful, from mentions of fountains to descriptions of stuff along the way. These comments then get distilled and rolled into the next version of the app (though they are always readable until that edit/publish happens).
3. Once we get to a point where there is a publishable volume, and it seems like the idea should be committed to paper, I will fill in the gaps with the same kind of maps that appear in my other guides. This can be published as a pdf or print on demand or whatever the community deems most suitable.

This isn’t a profitable enterprise by any means, the apps remain free and the books are sold at a level which covers costs of printing if there are any.

It is however a good way, I think, to get better information into the hands of pilgrims wanting to walk the Madrid route, or the Olvidado, or any number of other routes. Many first time pilgrims, or even 2nd/3rd time pilgrims avoid these routes due to the lack of information more than the lack of infrastructure.

I had in mind to begin with exactly the two routes mentioned above, as those are the two that I have done the most research on. However if it turns out that there is someone that wants to contribute enough information on a particular route, I am happy to hear about it.

So what do you all think? Is there a large enough need (a low threshold) for such an initiative? Furthermore, are there any pilgrims reading this that would like to contribute their knowledge to the task?

Or just thoughts in general. I don’t imagine many high quality guides will ever be produced to many of these routes, they are neglected by publishers for their lack of economic viability and by the local government for the same. Might this be a way to make one of our own?

Best regards from Santiago,
Michael
 
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Faye Walker

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF 2014, CF 2018, CP 2019 from Coimbra
I think this is a wonderful idea! I have used your apps 3 times now and it’s the technical parts of the app that I love so much (the live maps, the elevation information, the distances to and from stopping points along the way as well as SdC and the live information in comments about accommodations). For the Frances in particular, I really liked the “just enough historical and cultural information” about the towns and cities along the way, and I suspect that this camino community would have even more to offer along those lines.
That this does not exploit the crowd as “content creators” makes it a fair exchange as far as I can see.
As I know *nothing* of these routes, but am hoping to be able to do them in future, I’d love to see the crowd provide its insights in one easy-to use location.
 
Year of past OR future Camino
2017
Hello all. I’ve been tinkering around with an idea that I think would benefit the pilgrim community and I wanted to run it by the veterans here and the lurking future pilgrims too.

The idea is simple, and is meant to help pilgrims who would like to walk some of the lesser traveled routes to Santiago to get the best information available, by having them write it themselves for the pilgrims who follow behind.

I have the means and the experience to publish books and mobile apps, and that is what I would like to offer to the project… as well as a role in sifting though comments and notes to make sure the whole thing doesn’t become a big mess.

I see the individual guides evolving as such:
1. I will get it started by creating an app just like the others that I have made, specific to a camino. It will contain the usual places and distances and mapping capabilities, and will have at least some start of accommodation listings. This last part really depends on the route, and what I already have collected.
2. The app is free to use, and pilgrims who walk can leave comments along the way. Anything and everything is useful, from mentions of fountains to descriptions of stuff along the way. These comments then get distilled and rolled into the next version of the app (though they are always readable until that edit/publish happens).
3. Once we get to a point where there is a publishable volume, and it seems like the idea should be committed to paper, I will fill in the gaps with the same kind of maps that appear in my other guides. This can be published as a pdf or print on demand or whatever the community deems most suitable.

This isn’t a profitable enterprise by any means, the apps remain free and the books are sold at a level which covers costs of printing if there are any.

It is however a good way, I think, to get better information into the hands of pilgrims wanting to walk the Madrid route, or the Olvidado, or any number of other routes. Many first time pilgrims, or even 2nd/3rd time pilgrims avoid these routes due to the lack of information more than the lack of infrastructure.

I had in mind to begin with exactly the two routes mentioned above, as those are the two that I have done the most research on. However if it turns out that there is someone that wants to contribute enough information on a particular route, I am happy to hear about it.

So what do you all think? Is there a large enough need (a low threshold) for such an initiative? Furthermore, are there any pilgrims reading this that would like to contribute their knowledge to the task?

Or just thoughts in general. I don’t imagine many high quality guides will ever be produced to many of these routes, they are neglected by publishers for their lack of economic viability and by the local government for the same. Might this be a way to make one of our own?

Best regards from Santiago,
Michael
Brilliant idea. I suggest you take a look at Active Captain, a crowd sourced boating app, that overlays marine charts and allows input from boaters on routes, marinas, hazards, stops, etc. It would be a phenomenal way to step up access to Camino travel info.
 

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
Brilliant idea. I suggest you take a look at Active Captain, a crowd sourced boating app, that overlays marine charts and allows input from boaters on routes, marinas, hazards, stops, etc. It would be a phenomenal way to step up access to Camino travel info.
It's not a bad idea, but I don't want to reinvent anything here. The app platform has grown stable enough that it should be adequate. The framework of my website should likewise make it simple for pilgrims to plan.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Yay! WisePilgrim is back!

We have done a few “virtual deep dive planning threads” since covid. Vdlp/Sanabrés, Levante, Invierno, Viejo (using that term to distinguish the Olvidado — from Bilbao to Ponferrada — from the Viejo — from Pamplona to Aguilar (on the Olvidado) and then on to Ponferrada) and currently the Olvidado, which you’ve seen.

I can only speak for myself, but the information on those threads is public and I think those of us who have been involved in these labors of love would be delighted to see the information spread farther and wider!

I’ll PM you Michael.
 
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lt56ny

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF(2012) Le Puy/CF (2015) Portugues (2017) Norte (2018) CF (2019) VDLP?
I think it is a great idea. I have thought about walking the Madrid in the future. I do not know much about the Olvidado but would love to learn. I am leaning more and more towards the paths less traveled as I get older. I will be doing the VDLP next. Whenever I walk these paths you have mentioned or new ones if you expand this idea I would love to participate.
 

lt56ny

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF(2012) Le Puy/CF (2015) Portugues (2017) Norte (2018) CF (2019) VDLP?
Yay! WisePilgrim is back!

We have done a few “virtual deep dive planning threads” since covid. Vdlp/Sanabrés, Levante, Invierno, Viejo (using that term to distinguish the Olvidado — from Bilbao to Ponferrada — from the Viejo — from Pamplona to Aguilar (on the Olvidado) and then on to Ponferrada) and currently the Olvidado, which you’ve seen.

I can only speak for myself, but the information on those threads is public and I think those of us who have been involved in these labors of love would be delighted to see the information spread farther and wider!

I’ll PM you Michael.
With your camino wisdom would you please tell me the distinction between the Olvidado and the Viejo? Do they actually start in different locations? Is it the same but just called different names? Thanks in advance.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
would you please tell me the distinction between the Olvidado and the Viejo? Do they actually start in different locations? Is it the same but just called different names?
I hope this isn’t TMI, but here is my take on it.

For years, the route from Bilbao to Ponferrada/Cacabelos was called interchangeably the Camino Olvidado or the Camino Viejo. Then around 6 or 7 years ago, Cuñarro (aka Ender in Camino circles) decided that he needed a new challenge. He had opened up, marked and sufficiently promoted the Salvador from León to Oviedo. Since he lives in the provinces of León about 2/3 of the distance between Bilbao and Ponferrada, and since he has boundless energy and love of the mountains, he turned his attention to this route. The big change came when he was able to bring nearly all of the municipalities along the route into one organization. They agreed that they needed a name, but just one name, and voted on Olvidado rather than Viejo. There are still a few holdouts who refuse to switch over from Viejo, but they are a tiny minority.

It turns out that there is a second “branch” of this route that goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo where it joins the “regular” Olvidado. A few forum members have walked it. To avoid confusion with Olvidado, here on the forum we decided to use the term Viejo to distinguish it. But that’s just us.

Bottom line
Olvidado goes from Bilbao to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
What we call Viejo goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.

I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
 
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lt56ny

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF(2012) Le Puy/CF (2015) Portugues (2017) Norte (2018) CF (2019) VDLP?
I hope this isn’t TMI, but here is my take on it.

For years, the route from Bilbao to Ponferrada/Cacabelos was called interchangeably the Camino Olvidado or the Camino Viejo. Then around 6 or 7 years ago, Cuñarro (aka Ender in Camino circles) decided that he had opened up, marked and sufficiently promoted the Salvador from León to Oviedo. Since he lives in the provinces of León about 2/3 of the distance between Bilbao and Ponferrada, and since he has boundless energy and love of the mountains, he turned his attention to this route. The big change came when he was able to bring nearly all of the municipalities along the route into one organization. They agreed that they needed a name, but just one name, and voted on Olvidado rather than Viejo. There are still a few holdouts who refuse to switch over from Viejo, but they are a tiny minority.

It turns out that there is a second “branch” of this route that goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo where it joins the “regular” Olvidado. A few forum members have walked it. To avoid confusion with Olvidado, here on the forum we decided to use the term Viejo to distinguish it. But that’s just us.

Bottom line
Olvidado goes from Bilbao to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
What we call Viejo goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.

I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
That was barely too much information at all. In fact for an old Camino nut like me, I could have read your narrative even if it was 10 times longer. I love learning about this. I would love if you started some zoom meetings again to discuss your experiences and knowledge about the lesser known and traveled caminos. It would be great to hear from you and some other pilgrims who have walked these routes. Almost invariably a pilgrim who has walked these routes has walked many Caminos and has , like yourself a wealth of interesting and really useful information. I would sign up for those zoom calls for sure. If not thanks so much for this. Cunarro aka Ender would be a great first guest!!! ;)
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
I would love if you started some zoom meetings again to discuss your experiences and knowledge about the lesser known and traveled caminos.
Hi, @lt56ny I don’t want to derail this thread, but I will put my head togetrher with some others to see about starting up some more zooms on the lesser traveled caminos. I think we did Olvidado, Levante, Mozárabe and Invierno. I understand that different people prefer different types of presentations (oral, pictoral, written), and it is true that we have been focusing more on written threads lately to explore these lesser known caminos. But since this lockdown doesn’t show many signs of letting up yet, maybe some more zooms would be a good way to spice things up a bit.
 

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
I hope this isn’t TMI, but here is my take on it.

For years, the route from Bilbao to Ponferrada/Cacabelos was called interchangeably the Camino Olvidado or the Camino Viejo. Then around 6 or 7 years ago, Cuñarro (aka Ender in Camino circles) decided that he had opened up, marked and sufficiently promoted the Salvador from León to Oviedo. Since he lives in the provinces of León about 2/3 of the distance between Bilbao and Ponferrada, and since he has boundless energy and love of the mountains, he turned his attention to this route. The big change came when he was able to bring nearly all of the municipalities along the route into one organization. They agreed that they needed a name, but just one name, and voted on Olvidado rather than Viejo. There are still a few holdouts who refuse to switch over from Viejo, but they are a tiny minority.

It turns out that there is a second “branch” of this route that goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo where it joins the “regular” Olvidado. A few forum members have walked it. To avoid confusion with Olvidado, here on the forum we decided to use the term Viejo to distinguish it. But that’s just us.

Bottom line
Olvidado goes from Bilbao to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
What we call Viejo goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.

I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
And this is how it ought to be, and how I will structure it. I too was frustrated/confused by the two routes and two names, and this is the perfect compromise.
 
Year of past OR future Camino
2019
@wisepilgrim, this is a wonderful idea, a slightly higher tech version of what Laurie's been shepherding here on the Forum for the Invierno. As she said, there are planning threads here that are worth mining for information.

I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
Boy oh boy, me too. Of all the virtual caminos I've walked this last year (Viejo, Invierno, Via de las Asturias, Levante, Lana+San Salvador+Primativo), that one 'grabs' me the most.
 
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wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
@wisepilgrim, this is a wonderful idea, a slightly higher tech version of what Laurie's been shepherding here on the Forum for the Invierno. As she said, there are planning threads here that are worth mining for information.
Indeed I have already folded Laurie's Invierno content into an app (link below). Laurie inherited the Invierno guide from the CSJ, and they in turn received it from Rebekah Scott and myself. Laurie encouraged me to get it into a nicer form, and a proper book was planned before covid came around, but I did manage to get an app done.

What I don't want to do is run around mining for information from these forums without concern for those who have contributed it. Everything that I do use will be published in an organized way on my website (that is where the apps pull their data from, so it is a technical necessity) and it would be easy to misconstrue the effort. Contributors ought to be credited, and though he has not so much as mentioned it a link back to the forums is the right thing to do for Ivar.

But I do think the idea has merit, and if all of these routes could have an app like the one below it would be a tremendous step forward. BTW, the Invierno will get a healthy dose of new photography (at least the bit inside Galicia) next week.



 

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many

Mycroft

Active Member
I hope this isn’t TMI, but here is my take on it.

For years, the route from Bilbao to Ponferrada/Cacabelos was called interchangeably the Camino Olvidado or the Camino Viejo. Then around 6 or 7 years ago, Cuñarro (aka Ender in Camino circles) decided that he had opened up, marked and sufficiently promoted the Salvador from León to Oviedo. Since he lives in the provinces of León about 2/3 of the distance between Bilbao and Ponferrada, and since he has boundless energy and love of the mountains, he turned his attention to this route. The big change came when he was able to bring nearly all of the municipalities along the route into one organization. They agreed that they needed a name, but just one name, and voted on Olvidado rather than Viejo. There are still a few holdouts who refuse to switch over from Viejo, but they are a tiny minority.

It turns out that there is a second “branch” of this route that goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo where it joins the “regular” Olvidado. A few forum members have walked it. To avoid confusion with Olvidado, here on the forum we decided to use the term Viejo to distinguish it. But that’s just us.

Bottom line
Olvidado goes from Bilbao to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.
What we call Viejo goes from Pamplona to Aguilar de Campóo to Ponferrada.

I am chomping at the bit to walk the “Viejo.” The planning thread VN did revealed a lot of spectacular scenery and amazing historical sites.
Thank you, P, for this explanation. I am more of a lurker and know little of the insider stories, so this helps a lot!
 
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frbobs

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances-(2014)
Camino Portugues-(2017)
Camino Madrid (August 2019)
Great idea. I walked the Madrid, loved John Walker's guide, but an alternative would have been a welcomed addition. Recently found out that a, seemingly, random route of connected paths is actually it's own Camino (Fonseca), it would be cool to have more on that (Elle Bieling has a wonderful guide). Just a couple of examples to say, "Yeah, do it"
 

lt56ny

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF(2012) Le Puy/CF (2015) Portugues (2017) Norte (2018) CF (2019) VDLP?
Hi, @lt56ny I don’t want to derail this thread, but I will put my head togetrher with some others to see about starting up some more zooms on the lesser traveled caminos. I think we did Olvidado, Levante, Mozárabe and Invierno. I understand that different people prefer different types of presentations (oral, pictoral, written), and it is true that we have been focusing more on written threads lately to explore these lesser known caminos. But since this lockdown doesn’t show many signs of letting up yet, maybe some more zooms would be a good way to spice things up a bit.
I know you had zooms on those subjects. I heard a few of them and it was amazing that on the two I really wanted to participate in, Levante and Mozarabe I had prior commitments. As I am walking the VDLP I know I had asked you about that in the past. If you decide to do more zooms that would be really fantastic! If not you are still fantastic and a wealth of information. Like Davebugg is the go to source for equipment, I don't think anyone has more knowledge or information about the caminos we walk than you. Thanks!
 
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Le Puy-SJPDP 2014, VDLP 2014,
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The Mozarabe from Almería and Málaga to Mérida? The VDLP seems well-covered. I'm not aware of a Virtual camino group for these, but some of the intrepids have done the routes and written about them.

You'll find the virtual camino for the Ruta de la Lana highly entertaining, opinionated, and joyful. It was a delight to tag along. If they ever walked together, you'd hear them coming.
 
Year of past OR future Camino
Le Puy-SJPDP 2014, VDLP 2014,
Arles-SDC 2015, Lisbon-SDC 2017, Part Ruta de la Lana 2019, VDLP 2019

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Year of past OR future Camino
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
@wisepilgrim : Your idea is priceworthy. I am enjoying your CF app.

FWIW, there's a short "Camino" straight south starting in Burgos, called the Camino San Olav. It is of interest to me as a Norwegien, as it involves a Norwegian viking princess and a marriage some 8-900 years ago.

I have written a guide about it, and you can have it for free here:


It is a 3-4 days walk, some ca. 64 kms, it is a great and easy walk, and you can extend it to the famous Santo Domingo de Silos monestary/village and its singing monks:



This is a Camino not much walked. It is a pity, because if you're on the CF, this is a super opportunity to walk in peace for a few days, off the beaten trail. The lodgings and people along this route are very friendly and welcoming to pilgrims.

Since my guide is here on the Forum for free, please feel free to use it for free to your liking in order to make it (Camino San Olav) accessible to more walkers. I appreciate your initiative, and applaud it.
 
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wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
@wisepilgrim : Your idea is priceworthy. I am enjoying your CF app.

FWIW, there's a short "Camino" straight south starting in Burgos, called the Camino San Olav. It is of interest to me as a Norwegien, as it involves a Norwegian viking princess and a marriage some 8-900 years ago.

I have written a guide about it, and you can have it for free here:


It is a 3-4 days walk, some ca. 64 kms, it is a great and easy walk, and you can extend it to the famous Santo Domingo de Silos monestary/village and its singing monks:



This is a Camino not much walked. It is a pity, because if you're on the CF, this is a super opportunity to walk in peace for a few days, off the beaten trail. The lodgings and people along this route are very friendly and welcoming to pilgrims.

Since my guide is here on the Forum for free, please feel free to use it for free to your liking in order to make it (Camino San Olav) accessible to more walkers. I appreciate your initiative, and applaud it.
Well with your blessing, I will do exactly this. Thanks for the offer.
 
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2019
Indeed I have already folded Laurie's Invierno content into an app (link below)
BTW, the Invierno will get a healthy dose of new photography (at least the bit inside Galicia) next week.
Wonderful news, Michael. Well done!!
And wishing you a joyful time out there next week, gathering beautiful images to share. (Envious? Moi??)

Yes, it has been submitted and is pending approval. Here is the link, which should start working soon:
Also very good news!

Any other routes to consider?
The Viejo arm of the Olvidado (Pamplona-Aguilar de Campoo) is 1st on my list to walk in realtime. I think Laurie linked to our virtual version upthread? If not just let me know and I'll send the link to you.
Thanks for the offer.
I can add a couple of variants to the start of this from Santo Domingo de Silos. It would be an ideal side trip for anyone on the Frances.
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Year of past OR future Camino
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
I can add a couple of variants to the start of this from Santo Domingo de Silos. It would be an ideal side trip for anyone on the Frances.
Just a short remark: The route of San Olav is marked in the direction : from Burgos - to Covarrubias. The markings are quite small, My guide is describing that. I would find walking it in the oppsite without GPS tracks or similar quite difficult. But that's me. ;)
 
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wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
CAMINHO NASCENTE - Now Available

This is just to say that I have wrapped up the initial version of the first of these new guides. It was carried by @jungleboy and he did an incredible job of confirming and correcting the gps track, which in many many cases deviated from the most up-to-date versions available on wikiloc.... so three cheers for that!

He also took the time to write out suggestions for what to see, and where to sleep, and where to eat.

And to top it all off he lent his talents as a photographer and gave the whole thing a bit of color.

This would not have been possible without him, so on behalf of myself and everyone who will follow in his footsteps I would like to extend my gratitude. He is now on the Geira, and hopefully I can get something put together for that route too.

So now I leave it in the hands of the next intrepid Nascente pilgrims, you are welcome to download and add to the app via comments. I keep an eye on them and when the app merits an update I will do so. I will also take some time in the coming weeks to update the accommodation list to make it searchable.

Here are the links:
iOS
Android
 
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wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
And hot on the heels of the Nascente app/guide, I present the Vía Podiensis app for pilgrims making the walk from Le Puy en Velay to SJPP.

Note that this one is a bit different from the Nascente in the content. I had been working on this guide pre-pandemic and had compiled a comprehensive list of accommodation along the way, but did not have the chance to go and cover the route on foot. Neither have I had the chance to since the travel restrictions were lifted.

So it is heavy on accommodation, gps, offline maps, and otherwise has the same structure as the other apps. However it lacks photos, and recommendations or descriptions of places.

I present it for free, as-is, in the hopes that somebody gets in touch to share quality information for other pilgrims. Likewise the casual users can simply leave comments within the app.

So, more links:
iOS
Android
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Year of past OR future Camino
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
I'm back with another pair of links, this time for the short and sweet Camino San Olav. Hats off to @alexwalker for planting the seed. Anyone looking for a nice diversion from the Francés is encouraged to check it out:

iOS
Android
Nice! Will you insert the images you refer to?

Edit: I do agree on that donativo tip as mentioned by others, for the work you put into it..
 
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wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
I'm back! And happy to announce the release of the free app for the Camino Olvidado. The content was pulled largely from the Virtual camino put on by @peregrina2000. In the future I plan to add the Camino Viejo to this app as well. If anybody has photos they would like to contribute, feel free to message me.

iOS
Android

Thanks again to everyone for their enthusiastic support of this endeavor to promote the path less traveled.
 
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Year of past OR future Camino
2019
In the future I plan to add the Camino Viejo to this app as well. If anybody has photos they would like to contribute, feel free to message me.
For info, check out the virtual planning thread I did last year, @wisepilgrim. None of those pics are useable, sadly, as they are screenshots off the web. But both @caminka and @Sheffield James heve walked it, and @Rebekah Scott might have pics, too. This is at the very tippy top of my list to walk in realtime, so I'm happy to know an app might be in the works.
Muchas gracias!
 
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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Even though I have had several conversations with Michael about these apps, I confess that I don’t totally understand how to use them. Or how to contribute to them. :p

Am I right that the information that comes up as you scroll through the towns is the information you have put in, Michael? Users add comments when we click on the town to get expanded information? What is the difference between the information on the app as you scroll down from town to town and the information you get when you click on a particular town? I have just put in some information about the albergue in Villavieja on the Invierno, can someone confirm that I have done it correctly and that others will see it? Will some of those comments be moved over to the “main text” if you decide they are helpful and accurate? I’m just a bit unclear about how all the information gets managed.

And am I correct that I can download the offline maps for the camino onto the app and then follow them when I‘m actually walking? If so, my life just got a whole lot easier. Though I love wikiloc, having all of the maps right there on the app seems so easy. I take it that those maps work the same as they do on wikiloc, that it will show a little blue dot or something to indicate where I actually am.

What about alternatives? EDIT - Oh, I see you have put information about them in the text, but is there a way to put in the tracks?

I have many more questions, but I will start with these.

P.S. What a nifty feature — you hold down and press on the town where you want to start, and voilà, it becomes km0 and all the distances are calibrated from there. This is really fantastic! I totally agree about the donativo feature — there should be a way for those of us who are grateful to contribute. Is there a way to add a donativo link to the app store, or are they too rigidly capitalistic to only recognize Free or Not Free? Or can you put a donativo link on your webpage or something like that?
 
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wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
Let's see if I can address all of these points.

You are correct that comments added within the app are visible immediately within the app to everyone else. I then, as time permits, go through the comments to edit their content back into the body of the guide. I do this for two reasons:
  1. The commenting features require a data connection, and with the goal of keeping everything available offline it makes sense to incorporate meaningful comments into the app.
  2. Not all comments make it into sensible places; some get added to the wrong location (or at least not the best location) and some comments are only useful temporarily and can be removed when expired. For example, your comment appears on the page for Villavieja, when it may be more appropriate to have it put into the page for the specific albergue. I have left it where it is but will copy the content to the albergue as well.
You are also correct about the offline maps. Once they are downloaded, they can be viewed from the usual map page by toggling the online/offline button at the bottom. I admit this is not a very intuitive interface, and am working on making it a bit more elegant. Your location, as a blue dot, does appear if you have allowed the app to know your location. I will add that there are two different ways to get to the MAP view. Both are via an icon in the upper right corner. One looks like a compass and pressing it will always open a map to your current location. The other icon that may appear in the upper corner is of a folded map, and pressing it will open a map centered on the location for whatever you were looking at when you pressed the button... for example a city or an accommodation. All map pages have the compass icon, to quickly show your location on the map.

I like wikiloc, but it sort of fails on the camino in some respects. I hope this feature fills in the gaps.

Alternatives are included when I know about them. The 'Cabo do Mundo' alternate on the Invierno that you refer to only came to my attention last week. I knew it was there but didn't realize how close it was to the camino. If you know exactly where it goes I am happy to add it. I have driven those roads several times but to date have never seen an arrow, but with the maps in the app it is fairly easy to stay on track. I know that there is a road that descends all the way to the Covas beach on the river and that from there you can follow the road to Belasar.

I'm glad you like the KM0 feature. One of my principal goals when making books and apps is to provide a way to do a bit of planning, but not necessarily a way to plan 30 days of walking. Some of my best memories on the caminos are of post-dinner strategizing with other pilgrims on where to aim for in the coming days. The KM0 feature is helpful for that, making it easy to visualize distances and services along the way.

As for the donativo option, I would be grateful to have the support. I need to find a way to do it without violating any of the apple/google rules.
 

jungleboy

Spirit of the Camino (Nick)
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés 2017
Primitivo 2018
Madrid 2019
Kumano Kodo 2019
Português 2020
In addition to the answers Michael provided:

What is the difference between the information on the app as you scroll down from town to town and the information you get when you click on a particular town?
The information you see while scrolling is about way-finding or other important practical things like there being no shop for x kilometres. The information when you click also includes information about sights, accommodation or other non-urgent things.

I have just put in some information about the albergue in Villavieja on the Invierno, can someone confirm that I have done it correctly and that others will see it?
Is it this? If so, then yes, I see it ;)

IMG_EFFE91DFACC5-1.jpeg

P.S. What a nifty feature — you hold down and press on the town where you want to start, and voilà, it becomes km0 and all the distances are calibrated from there.
Very nifty but FYI @wisepilgrim there is a bug with this in the Finisterre app - it crashes the app when you tap and hold.
 
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wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
The information you see while scrolling is about way-finding or other important practical things like there being no shop for x kilometres. The information when you click also includes information about sights, accommodation or other non-urgent things.
Precisely.
Very nifty but FYI @wisepilgrim there is a bug with this in the Finisterre app - it crashes the app when you tap and hold.
I am aware, and trying hard to find a solution. The problem stems from the fact that this route is the only non-linear route as well as the only route with multiple end destinations. I have a plan and hope to get it fixed this month.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
You are also correct about the offline maps. Once they are downloaded, they can be viewed from the usual map page by toggling the online/offline button at the bottom.
Thanks Michael and Nick, I am learning!

But this part I’ve quoted above has me stumped. I have downloaded the maps and turned off my Wi-Fi and data, but I’m not sure what you mean by the “usual map page“ and therefore I cannot see an online/off-line button.

If these kinds of elementary questions are missing up the flow of this thread, I can delete them and put them in a new thread.
 
Year of past OR future Camino
2019
. I knew it was there but didn't realize how close it was to the camino. If you know exactly where it goes I am happy to add it
Here you go:
Here's a screenshot of the loop, Laurie, for quick reference; San Martiño is O Priorato on the map, and the little sqiggle that goes into the middle of the circle is the way to Mirador Cabo do Mondo:
Screenshot_20190610-194203_Wikiloc.jpg
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
Michael, I have scanned this thread and did not see that an app for the Levante is in progress. I am hoping for this, as I plan to start walking it in mid-September. The recent and detailed thread about this route was mentioned by @peregrina2000 in post #5 above as a basis for information for such an app .
 
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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
By 'usual map page' I refer to the map.
I was going to ask you how to get to the map, but I have figured out that it’s reached by touching the little compass indicator in the upper right hand corner when on the home page.

F1318C71-E717-40EE-92B3-FF32392422E9.png

That may be obvious to almost everyone, but it wasn’t to me. :p

I’m also assuming that even when I put on the offline maps, I’m not going to pull up the Invierno maps because I am thousands of miles away from them now.
 

Sirage

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Le Puy to Santiago (2005), Porto to Santiago (2007), Vezelay for 200 kms (2009), From Seville, May (2015), Le Puy to Sangüesa (2016), Norte-Primitivo (Sep-Oct 2016)
That may be obvious to almost everyone, but it wasn’t to me.
That seems a near universal comment most of us feel too often in regards to software interfaces, even those of us who have been using it for decades.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
A couple more questions about adding information. Michael, I put in the web address of Amancio’s GPS tracks for the Borrenes alternative, but maybe you can put the tracks directly into the app, I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s helpful having the web address, because it is not a “link,” so feel free to delete.

For example, your comment appears on the page for Villavieja, when it may be more appropriate to have it put into the page for the specific albergue. I have left it where it is but will copy the content to the albergue as well.

I totally agree about putting the comments on the specific albergue page, so feel free to delete the listing for the hamlet. I hadn’t played around with the app enough to even have realized that by clicking on “accommodation” on the locality’s page, we get taken to specific information about the options.
 

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
A couple more questions about adding information. Michael, I put in the web address of Amancio’s GPS tracks for the Borrenes alternative, but maybe you can put the tracks directly into the app, I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s helpful having the web address, because it is not a “link,” so feel free to delete.
I will leave it for now, and will incorporate the track in the next app update. If you manage to find one that does well the Cabo do Mundo section send it, otherwise I will make one from what I know of the area... it ought to be pretty straightforward.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
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wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
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Many
I was just playing with the app and added a comment and wikiloc link.

@wisepilgrim, I hesitate to ask this, knowing you're a pro, but is it possible/useful to add photos in the comments?
It is probably useful, but it is not possible. The comments are connected to the content on wisepilgrim.com, where photos are not supported.

But if there are comments which warrant photos, I am happy to add them directly to the app.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Here is my newbie question of the day. I just inserted all of @Joergen’s information on the albergue in Monforte. I was careful to put it in the accommodation comments and not the city comments. I gave the subject as “Monforte now has an albergue” or something like that. The body of the comments gave all the information.

I think that when I go back to look at the comments now, the subject line is not visible, so no one will know I’m talking about an albergue.

Am I right that the subject lines are visible only to you, oh wise one?
 

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
Michael, I have scanned this thread and did not see that an app for the Levante is in progress. I am hoping for this, as I plan to start walking it in mid-September. The recent and detailed thread about this route was mentioned by @peregrina2000 in post #5 above as a basis for information for such an app .
I am working on it now, it will be ready by mid-September if all goes as planned.
 

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
Here is my newbie question of the day. I just inserted all of @Joergen’s information on the albergue in Monforte. I was careful to put it in the accommodation comments and not the city comments. I gave the subject as “Monforte now has an albergue” or something like that. The body of the comments gave all the information.

I think that when I go back to look at the comments now, the subject line is not visible, so no one will know I’m talking about an albergue.

Am I right that the subject lines are visible only to you, oh wise one?
Yes, only I can see them. My experience with the other apps was that the subject line was often filled with junk and it made for a poor experience.
 
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peregrina2000

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Yes, only I can see them. My experience with the other apps was that the subject line was often filled with junk and it made for a poor experience.
That should be a well-known feature becaues if you look at my Monforte post, without the subject line you won’t know what I’m talking about. Can you edit that? And also, you might want to put some kind of notation in the subject line. Maybe modify what’s there now (“enter a helpful subject”) and say “subject line will only be seen by moderator or something like that.
 

wisepilgrim

Guidebook Author
Year of past OR future Camino
Many
That should be a well-known feature becaues if you look at my Monforte post, without the subject line you won’t know what I’m talking about. Can you edit that? And also, you might want to put some kind of notation in the subject line. Maybe modify what’s there now (“enter a helpful subject”) and say “subject line will only be seen by moderator or something like that.
I think I should revisit this functionality in all of the apps, and for now I will include it in tonight's update of the Invierno app (available whenever apple approves it). It will only apply to new comments made from today onward, but that might be a good thing. It looks like this now:

Screen Shot 2021-07-16 at 20.22.52.png
 

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