Curious about your VF experiences

[Bras90]

Hi all,

After walking the Camino Frances in 2017 and Portugues in 2019, I wanted to try a new pilgrimage in 2021. To sort of keep the uneven year spirit alive..
As I do not have so many leave days at hand as before, I decided to try out the Via Francigena, and to do it in stages of 1 to 3 weeks.

Starting at Calais in september 2021, I only had 1 week, and finished in Amettes. I only briefly met two other (not so talkative) pilgrims on the way. And with all the closed shops and restaurants, the loneliness, and the expensive accommodation - a completely different experience than my Camino Frances and Portugues.

Arriving back home, my first reaction was to not finish the VF and rather switch back to the good old Camino. But then in January the longing to go further started coming up again. Now at the end of March I found that I planned another two weeks, from Amettes to Reims, and itching to go.

I was wondering how you experiences the VF?

 

[timr]

Hello @Bras90 and welcome to the forum.
I left Canterbury exactly four years ago on April 1st and arrived in Rome on 28th June 2018.

You have identified a particular feature of the VF - it is VERY much 'quieter' in terms of other pilgrims compared to any of the popular Camino routes. (Although I have had similar semi-solo experiences on Baztan, Invierno and Madrid routes.)

But on VF that is how it is going to be until you get down as far as Lucca or Sienna. There are simply far less people walking the route. I don't think it makes a huge difference what time of year you walk, except that the sections in Tuscany and Lazio will be 'moderately' busy in the summer months.
For me the solitude is an attraction, as is the chance to interact with local people who may or may not know much about the pilgrimage.

The first section might seem a little 'bleak' - the population is low and there are few shops and bars. It seems sort of fitting as you pass through the seemingly endless WW1 cemeteries.That is the nature of life these days in northern France. It gets 'better' as you go south!

There is probably more accommodation than you might think - and there IS pilgrim-type accommodation. (Of course I was there before the pandemic). In France the local mairie and tourist office are generally very helpful. You may find yourself staying with families or in council-owned accommodation. I am fairly introvert but I do enjoy nonetheless saying hello to local people and hearing what they have to say.

The stretch from Ammettes through Arras to Reims is very nice - although that is of course quite subjective.

The UK Confraternity of Pilgrims to Rome has a helpful website with listing of accommodation. www.pilgrimstorome.org.uk It has an active FB page too. https://www.facebook.com/pilgrims2rome

The European VF organisation has accommodation lists too https://www.viefrancigene.org/en/resource/tour/la-via-francigena-in-francia/

In short whenever you go - you will have NOTHING like the crowds on the Camino and it is not going to be as cheap as the Camino, not in France and most certainly not in Switzerland. The infrastructure in Italy is a bit more like the Camino a fair bit of pilgrim accommodation, usually organised by parish or local community.

You will need to weigh that into the balance.... But I would go again tomorrow if I could!!

If you were really looking for more company, and still wanted to do the VF, I would suggest say from Lucca to Rome, in the summer.

Let us know what you decide.

Bon chemin, Buon Cammino.

Tim

 

[roving_rufus]

I have been doing the VF in sections for a few years. France is generally fairly light in pilgrims on VF, though I didn't go too long before I crossed paths with one or two, even 5 one day at Besancon. I did carry a tent for France which cut my costs (though I rarely wild camped), but made use of any pilgrim accommodation there was which Tim points to sources of info about. It was very different to a busy camino route like Frances or Portuguese, and awareness of the pilgrimage is still much lower than the camino than even on quieter routes such as Lana. I really enjoyed the VF in France, but it is a different mindset and a sense of independent exploration. (It lead me to plan a camino walk from cherbourg down through France to Bayonne and onto Spain )

 

[Bradypus]

I walked from Canterbury to Rome in summer 2015. I made my own route as far as Besançon then joined the official path there. I didn't see any other pilgrims until the day before the GSB summit apart from a pre-arranged meet with a Kiwi couple in Langres. If the company of fellow pilgrims is a significant factor for you then the VF may not be your ideal route. But as @timr suggests it definitely gets busier the closer you get to Rome. As someone who prefers solitude to company when I walk I loved the VF and hope to walk at least parts of it again. Though maybe not the Po rice swamps

 

[Bras90]

Thank you for sharing your experiences and tips. I will definitely continue the journey. It will be easy to enjoy the solitude this time, when I am prepared for it.

I like to keep spreadsheet for planning purposes, and it seems that for every pilgrime-type accomodation, you will have to stay in a hotel the next day. For the first three weeks I average a little over €40 per night. It could be worse.

 

[OzAnnie]

Hi @timr

The first section might seem a little 'bleak' - the population is low and there are few shops and bars. It seems sort of fitting as you pass through the seemingly endless WW1 cemeteries.That is the nature of life these days in northern France. It gets 'better' as you go south!

Im aware that many people book ‘tours’ to visit and pay homage in these areas.
Q. Do pilgrims to Rome stop anywhere in particular enroute to do the same? Ie do you know whether there are guides in any of the villages who could take you there?

@Bras90
I envy you being so close to all the European caminos trails. If it becomes too difficult., you won’t be forfeiting a long haul airfare. Go for it in stages.

Re costs / I would assume ? That walking through Switzerland will be much more expensive than France for accommodation/food ?

Safe travels.
Annie.

 

[Tassie Kaz]

Hi @timr

Im aware that many people book ‘tours’ to visit and pay homage in these areas.
Q. Do pilgrims to Rome stop anywhere in particular enroute to do the same? Ie do you know whether there are guides in any of the villages who could take you there?
Safe travels.
Annie.

Apologies if a bit off topic for @Bras90 but you asked for experiences...
When I walked the VF in 2019, my visits to the war sites was purely chance...with the exception of a few Aussie cemeteries/memorials where I did deviate as much as was practicable (being on foot) to pay my respects.
Some of the larger sites had information boards or pavilions.
I navigated My Own Way through much of France & in all honesty did not pay much thought to the war cemeteries prior to leaving home. That quickly changed as my walk progressed & I kept coming across site after site after site...some containing thousands of graves. It was a very emotional experience...probably moreso because I hadn't considered this aspect of my walk beforehand...therefore my reaction was completely spontaneous. It ended up being a truly significant part of my journey & more than worth any effort required. I will confess though, it wasn't without some relief to leave the region...

 

[gerardcarey]

I did a 12 day Swiss section of the VF. So scenic.
Flew into Geneva, then after a day sightseeing (including the Large Hadron Collider) I took a ferry 1/2 way up the lake to Lausanne. There, the VF arrives after coming across, in 2 or 3 days, from the France/Swiss border. Then I walked the VF round the lake edge to Montreux and up the Rhone valley. From there it's 4 or 5 days up to the top of the Alps at the Gran St Bernard Pass, then 2 days down to Aosta in Italy, the first real transport hub. I got the train to Turin but in hindsight, as the VF follows the train line down the Aosta valley, and it looked so good from the train window, I regret not having taken another 3 or 4 days to walk it.
The VF website has an app detailing the complete VF with section tracks you can download and use off-line.
Regards
Gerard

Just in case you haven't come across it.
The android VF app.

Via Francigena - Official App - Apps on Google Play

A trip through the heart of Europe

play.google.com

 

[timr]

Hi @timr

Im aware that many people book ‘tours’ to visit and pay homage in these areas.
Q. Do pilgrims to Rome stop anywhere in particular enroute to do the same? Ie do you know whether there are guides in any of the villages who could take you there?

Hi @OzAnnie

See first the photos above from @Tassie Kaz

It is hard to understand until you get there. In that first (edit: probably second) week or ten days you will be passing cemeteries along the path perhaps four or five times a day. There are so many of them.

Some may contain just twenty or thirty graves, others hundreds or thousands. Usually they are in open country, in the fields. Sometimes they are attached to a church. I think they are often at the site of a former field hospital, or else literally in somewhere that was in the thick of the fighting.

There are specifically French cemeteries, and Cemeteries for the other allies maintained by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. There are occasional German soldiers buried in each of these and there are German cemeteries too, much less conspicuous. I wanted to visit a large one one day which was off the path, but signposted, but it was the foggiest day of my walk and I couldn't find it.

The cemeteries are very well kept - absolutely immaculate. Each has a plain stone altar at least. Larger ones may have a chapel. There will be a niche with books listing everyone who is buried in each cemetery.
I am not aware of any local guides, but you don't need anyone to guide you. They are uniform, although each is unique. The architect Edwin Lutyens and others were involved in the design.

If you have a family member buried in a grave, it is easy to find where they are interred. If you are interested I recommend the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website www.cwgc.org It is a very beautifully constructed website. They have an app too for use on the hoof.

So for instance if you search on France and then (for example) Pas de Calais region it will list 590 cemeteries with full details of each. The scale is mind-numbing.

In various places there are specific Canadian, of Anzac (for example) cemeteries and memorials and these are listed too.

If you want a 'deeper dive' and you have a rest day and extra night in Arras, there is a lot to see there. It is itself an amazing place - it looks old but was essentially rebuilt in the same style after the first WW. It has many memorials and interpretative centres. There is cheap (but very adequate) accommodation in the diocesan offices in Arras

Accueil et hôtellerie - Maison Saint Vaast Arras

Arras Memorial, Pas de Calais, France

Arras memorial commemorates 34,749 world war one sevicemen

www.ww1cemeteries.com

You will also pass on the 'regular route' this very large French cemetery with over 40,000 graves

There are museums in various places, but I didn't visit any - I was not able to deviate too much from my onward trip. http://www.greatwar.co.uk/places/french-flanders-artois-museums.htm

There are indeed commercial groups organising tours specifically of the battlefields and cemeteries, but I know nothing of them.

And the cemeteries continue to appear all along the route, in southern France and in Italy, but nothing compares with the density of them in northern France.

 

[timr]

Re costs / I would assume ? That walking through Switzerland will be much more expensive than France for accommodation/food ?

Safe travels.
Annie.

The cost of everything in Switzerland is rather shocking for the first time visitor!
The cost of living is estimated to be 80% higher than in UK. See here: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Switzerland&displayCurrency=EUR
But it is a beautiful and pilgrim-friendly country. You need to bite the bullet and keep moving through it! You will see costs plummeting again as you cross the border into Italy - which you do actually at the summit of the Great St Bernard Pass. (Do passes have a summit? )

 

[roving_rufus]

On another note Laon is a lovely little town between Arras and Reims, definitely worth an afternoon of exploring. Its a walled city on a hill with cathedral etc. A nice change after what I found emotionally difficult with all the war cemeteries.

 

[timr]

On another note Laon is a lovely little town between Arras and Reims, definitely worth an afternoon of exploring. Its a walled city on a hill with cathedral etc. A nice change after what I found emotionally difficult with all the war cemeteries.

That was the day I was looking for the German cemetery in the fog (vid sup). And the guidebook said something like "you will see Laon high on a hill throughout the day - just aim for it." On that day for much of it I couldn't see my hand in front of my face as we say. It was April. And then it began to rain heavily. By the time I reached Laon I was very wet very cold and very tired. And Laon was 'up on an imposing ridge' way above me. I took the line of least resistance and stayed in the new town below. Not visiting Laon remains a regret, but I may get there one day.

 

[Tassie Kaz]

That was the day I was looking for the German cemetery in the fog (vid sup). And the guidebook said something like "you will see Laon high on a hill throughout the day - just aim for it." On that day for much of it I couldn't see my hand in front of my face as we say. It was April. And then it began to rain heavily. By the time I reached Laon I was very wet very cold and very tired. And Laon was 'up on an imposing ridge' way above me. I took the line of least resistance and stayed in the new town below. Not visiting Laon remains a regret, but I may get there one day.

I'd had a toughie that day too! All I wanted to do was get to Laon, drop my pack & collapse. For awhile (@timr, I could actually see... ) it appeared I was approaching on an almost level trajectory. As I staggered closer, of course the road took the obligatory dive down & before I could throw a tanty, there was Laon now perched waaay above me. Honestly, I could have sat on the side of the road & just cried...but it wouldn't have accomplished anything & I still would have had the climb ahead of me. Ah well...
Incidentally, IMHO Laon would've been a good place for a rest day...but no such chance for me! Next time ay?!...

 

[Bras90]

I navigated My Own Way through much of France & in all honesty did not pay much thought to the war cemeteries prior to leaving home. That quickly changed as my walk progressed & I kept coming across site after site after site...some containing thousands of graves.

I must have had my eyes closed half the time, because I did not see so many war cemeteries along the way from Calais to Amettes. Or does it start after that first week? I did see many churches with 'regular' cemeteries.

Also interesting to learn how you navigated your own way. Were the VF signs not as available in France in 2019?

 

[Bras90]

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. Tips for sightseeing are ofcourse also very welcome!

 

[roving_rufus]

The VF signage in France was a work in progress for a long time though well completed now. However as its marked as a GR which has rules meaning it will add on an off road loop to miss even 200m on a very quiet road, or sometimes will miss a village which has a bar, bakery, shop or even a tap in the cemetery which are useful resources. So it is worth going off piste, to reduce distance or find food, or simply to visit something interesting, or to find accommodation. And honestly I was quite often off route in France, but I had a fondness for Raju's old guidebook as it tended to have more direct routes than the now marked GR.

 

[timr]

I must have had my eyes closed half the time, because I did not see so many war cemeteries along the way from Calais to Amettes. Or does it start after that first week? I did see many churches with 'regular' cemeteries.

Also interesting to learn how you navigated your own way. Were the VF signs not as available in France in 2019?

@Bras90 You will have no problem seeing them from Amettes onward! [I've edited my post to say second week or ten days!]

You will see other threads from several people who navigated their own route across France. There was really quite little waymarking four years ago.

But the French are very organised about this and have designated the GR145 as the Via Francigena. And that is well waymarked in its own specific way. And the waymarking has increased significantly I believe. It can make strenuous efforts to avoid tarmac at times which can make it seem a bit circuitous. That is why people sometimes look for shorter routes.

From Reims onward the path is pretty well clear. From the coast to Reims I think there are really a lot of options.

 

[timr]

The VF signage in France was a work in progress for a long time though well completed now. However as its marked as a GR which has rules meaning it will add on an off road loop to miss even 200m on a very quiet road, or sometimes will miss a village which has a bar, bakery, shop or even a tap in the cemetery which are useful resources. So it is worth going off piste, to reduce distance or find food, or simply to visit something interesting, or to find accommodation. And honestly I was quite often off route in France, but I had a fondness for Raju's old guidebook as it tended to have more direct routes than the now marked GR.

@roving_rufus Our posts crossed and we are of one mind!

 

[Tassie Kaz]

I must have had my eyes closed half the time, because I did not see so many war cemeteries along the way from Calais to Amettes. Or does it start after that first week? I did see many churches with 'regular' cemeteries.

Also interesting to learn how you navigated your own way. Were the VF signs not as available in France in 2019?

I saw most of the cemeteries in the first 10-14 days of landing on French soil. As I said, I came across them mostly by accident..they just happened to be on the route I chose for myself.
There is no hard & fast set route through northern France in particular (this topic cropped up recently in a thread @timr, @Bradypus & myself responded to. The OP queried a route from Nantes to Reims if you want to look it up)...it depends on which guide book, app (or your tool of choice) you consult. I had the Raju guides & did not agree/like her suggested routes so I took it as a daily challenge to find a better way...& I thoroughly enjoyed doing so!
A lot of this region of France is huge agricultural swathes with plenty of accessible farm tracks to cut kilometres off the Raju course. As @timr perfectly described in the aforementioned thread, most people's route at least to Reims is "ad hoc". Yes, signage is/was thin on the ground plus there's no general consensus of an exact route. Aim for the towns/villages/cities which are known historically to be the actual stops of Sergeric but make your Own Way between them...it's hard to go too wrong. Many of us have gone before you & lived to tell our tales! Most of all, savour & enjoy the experience.
Happy trails!

Edited to add; much of my chosen route was influenced by accommodation availability too. It was at times, thin on the ground in 2019 so can't begin to imagine what it would be like now.

 

[Tassie Kaz]

My post crossed with @timr & @roving_rufus too...busy little fingers we have!
So, signage has improved since 2019...where's the fun in that?!

One of my rare encounters with a waymarker...

 

[Pilgrim 122]

Hello, I walked the VF in stages from the UK from 2017 to 2020 . I didn't meet any pilgrims on my first stage in France from Calais to Chalons en Champagne and only one who I met a couple of times on the next part to Lausanne. There were about 6 of us going over the St Bernard Pass which was lovely. In the rest of Italy I only met a couple more but I finished by taking the St Francis Way so didn't do the bit from Lucca. I took rest days in Arras, Laon, Reims, Langres, Besancon, Aosta, Piacenza, Pavia, La Verna, Assisi and Rieti. There is so much to see especially in Italy I could have taken more rest days but I did some short days to give me more time in some towns. I was a bit lonely at times but was never away for longer than 3 weeks. I think the VF is getting more popular though. Good luck and enjoy your pilgrimage.

 

[timr]

My post crossed with @timr & @roving_rufus too...busy little fingers we have!
So, signage has improved since 2019...where's the fun in that?!
View attachment 121709
One of my rare encounters with a waymarker...

Yes the mystery of GR marking. It tells you you are on the route and yet doesn't tell you which direction to go.

And the (lovely) people of France do not find this in the least bit strange. I walked with 13 French people for a few days and learned a lot about GR navigation, though mainly I just went wherever they did. They all made use of a GR App which I have to say I didn't bother downloading and they also had paper maps. The GR network is fantastic, but quite Gallic.

I mean that as a compliment!

And those few days with the French crew stand out as the happiest of memories. We walked across into Switzerland together and they brought me to Romainmôtier to stay the night. It is an alternative route (possibly the most authentic but let's not get into that) and is a stunningly beautiful place and the ((now) Lutheran) Cluniac monastery there is well worth a visit. And go for a service if you are so inclined. Sunday Eucharist was very special. There is a small lay community and a larger virtual community (from long before Covid).

Paroisse Vaulion - Romainmôtier - EERV

Retrouvez toutes les informations sur la vie de la Paroisse Vaulion - Romainmôtier et de ses lieux d'activités d'Église (Actualités, événements, cultes, activités, photos, catéchisme, mariage, etc.)

www.eerv.ch

 

[Pilgrim 122]

I didn't see many signposts in France, I used the GPS route off the VF website and made up my own way using minor roads. I had Alison Raju's book too. There were some signs in Italy but nothing like the Caminos in Spain. So a guidebook and GPS will definitely help

 

[Elizabeth Cheung]

I did it last year from Lausanne to Rome but it ended up being a MUCH different camino than what was intended or what is traditionally considered "walking the VF". I ended up doing my own thing and doing other walking and hiking routes in Italy. Which is to say I loved Italy and the trails offered but my favorite experiences were not those on the VF.

 

[Bras90]

@Bras90 You will have no problem seeing them from Amettes onward! [I've edited my post to say second week or ten days!]

Thanks Tim! I have also found your website and blogs of your 2018 VF. I will read through them with pleasure .

 

[timr]

Thanks Tim! I have also found your website and blogs of your 2018 VF. I will read through them with pleasure .

Thanks. You will find that my blog gives out after the halfway mark - in part because I began to meet people and had people to talk to! But also because of the difficulty of making regular good internet connections.

I did get to Rome and then to Brindisi later and later again to Albania, and North Macedonia and into Greece. I am still hopeful of reaching Jerusalem one day, but many things have conspired against this! As is the case for everyone else.

I have also given some personal advice on the GSB crossing which you can find here.

I hope you will enjoy your travels.

Tim

 

[Slow guy]

There is an excellent museum/exhibit just out of Arras if you have an opportunity to visit of the Wellington miners from New Zealand and the brief breakthrough they were able to make in the defense of Arras by digging tunnels and surprising the Germans. Unfortunately, it stalled and just lead to more slaughter on both sides. It was very sobering to read of the number of casualties on both sides but it was worse as I got to later battlefields on the hike.
On another and brighter note, I ended up staying an extra day in Laos because of blisters and used it to explore the cathedral and the town up on the hill. Best sick day I’ve ever had!

 

[mspath]

Hi @OzAnnie

See first the photos above from @Tassie Kaz

It is hard to understand until you get there. In that first (edit: probably second) week or ten days you will be passing cemeteries along the path perhaps four or five times a day. There are so many of them.

Some may contain just twenty or thirty graves, others hundreds or thousands. Usually they are in open country, in the fields. Sometimes they are attached to a church. I think they are often at the site of a former field hospital, or else literally in somewhere that was in the thick of the fighting.

There are specifically French cemeteries, and Cemeteries for the other allies maintained by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. There are occasional German soldiers buried in each of these and there are German cemeteries too, much less conspicuous. I wanted to visit a large one one day which was off the path, but signposted, but it was the foggiest day of my walk and I couldn't find it.

The cemeteries are very well kept - absolutely immaculate. Each has a plain stone altar at least. Larger ones may have a chapel. There will be a niche with books listing everyone who is buried in each cemetery.
I am not aware of any local guides, but you don't need anyone to guide you. They are uniform, although each is unique. The architect Edwin Lutyens and others were involved in the design.

If you have a family member buried in a grave, it is easy to find where they are interred. If you are interested I recommend the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website www.cwgc.org It is a very beautifully constructed website. They have an app too for use on the hoof.

So for instance if you search on France and then (for example) Pas de Calais region it will list 590 cemeteries with full details of each. The scale is mind-numbing.

In various places there are specific Canadian, of Anzac (for example) cemeteries and memorials and these are listed too.

If you want a 'deeper dive' and you have a rest day and extra night in Arras, there is a lot to see there. It is itself an amazing place - it looks old but was essentially rebuilt in the same style after the first WW. It has many memorials and interpretative centres. There is cheap (but very adequate) accommodation in the diocesan offices in Arras

Accueil et hôtellerie - Maison Saint Vaast Arras

Arras Memorial, Pas de Calais, France

Arras memorial commemorates 34,749 world war one sevicemen

www.ww1cemeteries.com

You will also pass on the 'regular route' this very large French cemetery with over 40,000 graves

There are museums in various places, but I didn't visit any - I was not able to deviate too much from my onward trip. http://www.greatwar.co.uk/places/french-flanders-artois-museums.htm

There are indeed commercial groups organising tours specifically of the battlefields and cemeteries, but I know nothing of them.

And the cemeteries continue to appear all along the route, in southern France and in Italy, but nothing compares with the density of them in northern France.

Indeed. Nothing compares to the density of these cemetery sites. Please read this earlier post regarding collective memory of WW1 in northern France....Lest we forget.