Danger for pilgrims walking between Roncesvalles & Zubiri

[daisyfae]

Walked from Roncevalles to Bizcaretta today - crossing at the river (concrete pylons) was fine. Water is down, no algae.

 

[tpmchugh]

Back home in Ireland. After my scare at Espinal, I tried to keep walking but my mind kept focusing on the thought that I had in the water, 'I will never see my wife again'. Each day it got harder rather than easier. It was constantly on my mind rather than the camino so at Najera I decided, enough is enough. Bussed to Burgos then Bilbao and flew home. Seeing my family again became my priority and completing a fourth camino fell way down the list. Been home now 3 nights and not had another nightmare but still cant get it out of my mind. For now, just time to relax and be happy at home

 

[GERARD RYAN]

Heads up: River between Roncesvalles & Zubiri is flooding and many had accidents today. I know of one lady who fell in and was bruised and shaken(had to get taxi to Pamplona) An Asian Man who was hurt when he tumbled in head first when he tried to help her. An Italian man who really hurt his knee when he slipped off one of the submerged stones steps. A Belfast writer took a fall in also and had to be brought back to Burguette. Very dangerous. Please be aware.

There should also be a warning sign about walking across the water instead of on the stepping stones. It’s extremely slipping from algae and walking across the water is very tempting when it’s low. But extremely slippy. I slipped and fell.

 

[MauraO]

I waded across too Gerard, and thought I was very clever until I got to the middle and the strength off the current nearly took me away. If it wasn't for my walking poles? and a bit of lucky balancing? Scary stuff all right. I hope your OK.

 

[GERARD RYAN]

I waded across too Gerard, and thought I was very clever until I got to the middle and the strength off the current nearly took me away. If it wasn't for my walking poles? and a bit of lucky balancing? Scary stuff all right. I hope your OK.

It was a few years ago Maura and I didn’t injure mushed.But there should be a warning sign to alert walkers of the slippery surface if you walk across the water. It’s very tempting in summer when it’s just a little flow of water but it’s stull extremely slippery. Someone have a nasty fall or hip injury if it’s not prevented. Hope all is well in Galway.

 

[lissie45]

I waded across too Gerard, and thought I was very clever until I got to the middle and the strength off the current nearly took me away. If it wasn't for my walking poles? and a bit of lucky balancing? Scary stuff all right. I hope your OK.

If you are avoiding the stepping stones (and by these pics there is no way I could balance on them) - walk upstream from them - not done - so if you do get swept away you have the stepping stones to grab. Also un buckle your waist belt

 

[Anniesantiago]

Walked this yesterday. The stream is down. Weather is warm and dry. No problem.

 

[Travelite]

Heads up: River between Roncesvalles & Zubiri is flooding and many had accidents today. I know of one lady who fell in and was bruised and shaken(had to get taxi to Pamplona) An Asian Man who was hurt when he tumbled in head first when he tried to help her. An Italian man who really hurt his knee when he slipped off one of the submerged stones steps. A Belfast writer took a fall in also and had to be brought back to Burguette. Very dangerous. Please be aware.

I will be on this route soon ( starting 19/8/18) and would there flooding around this time? I'm not a chance - taker and would take heed of advise given. Thanis.

 

[Kathar1na]

I will be on this route soon ( starting 19/8/18) and would there flooding around this time? I'm not a chance - taker and would take heed of advise given. Thanis.

Unlikely. The 14-day weather forecasts don't indicate exceptional precipitations. Inundations like those in Navarra in the spring of 2018 - the topic of this thread - are a rare occurrence. The Spanish weather office Aemet issues severe weather warnings ("avisos" with levels green, yellow, orange, and red). However, many walkers are not aware of them or don't check.

PS: Use date formats like 8 Sep 2018 instead of 9/8/2018 in Europe as it will help to avoid confusion. Europeans read 9/8/2018 as the 9th of August 2018.

 

[ISABEL linares]

Back home in Ireland. After my scare at Espinal, I tried to keep walking but my mind kept focusing on the thought that I had in the water, 'I will never see my wife again'. Each day it got harder rather than easier. It was constantly on my mind rather than the camino so at Najera I decided, enough is enough. Bussed to Burgos then Bilbao and flew home. Seeing my family again became my priority and completing a fourth camino fell way down the list. Been home now 3 nights and not had another nightmare but still cant get it out of my mind. For now, just time to relax and be happy at home

Glad that you are back home.what happened to you at espinal.

 

[tpmchugh]

Glad that you are back home.what happened to you at espinal.

The last, as Brierley describes it, gentle stream before Espinal. It was in full flood and some 8 feet wider than usual. It had flowed around the ford which was a couple of inches under water. Previous pilgrims had thrown trees branches and logs in to form a makeshift bridge. I carefully made my way across this until the last log just 18 inches to go. Slipped and fell backwards into the ice cold water and the shock of the water on the back of my neck made me pass out. Everything after that is a hazy mist but the young girl I was walking with at the time, Molly from Columbus, Ohio, slipped into the deep water to get behind me, keep me above water and push while others pulled. On the bank, in my confusion, I started to change my socks in case I got blisters and this young Camino Angel, soaked through herself, got down, dried my feet, changed my socks and laced up my boots. Then she was gone and I stayed in Espinal. Some time later I met her again briefly in Monjardin. We contacted later on facebook and thats when she told me she went into the water to save me. A tale to tell my grandchildren and remember fondly for the amazing people who helped me. It may have been traumatic at the time but it adds to the many unique experiences I have had on the Camino

 

[Davey Boyd]

I'm really glad you are ok!

Davey

 

[Travelite]

The last, as Brierley describes it, gentle stream before Espinal. It was in full flood and some 8 feet wider than usual. It had flowed around the ford which was a couple of inches under water. Previous pilgrims had thrown trees branches and logs in to form a makeshift bridge. I carefully made my way across this until the last log just 18 inches to go. Slipped and fell backwards into the ice cold water and the shock of the water on the back of my neck made me pass out. Everything after that is a hazy mist but the young girl I was walking with at the time, Molly from Columbus, Ohio, slipped into the deep water to get behind me, keep me above water and push while others pulled. On the bank, in my confusion, I started to change my socks in case I got blisters and this young Camino Angel, soaked through herself, got down, dried my feet, changed my socks and laced up my boots. Then she was gone and I stayed in Espinal. Some time later I met her again briefly in Monjardin. We contacted later on facebook and thats when she told me she went into the water to save me. A tale to tell my grandchildren and remember fondly for the amazing people who helped me. It may have been traumatic at the time but it adds to the many unique experiences I have had on the Camino

Your tale sounds pretty scary. So good to know there are people out there who were prepared to help without counting the cost. Is there a bridge across this river which was submerged due to flooding?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Slipped and fell backwards into the ice cold water

Always unfasten waist belt, unfasten chest strap, and loosen shoulder straps before crossing moving water. It is better have your backpack float away than drown!! I am glad all ended well.

 

[tpmchugh]

Always unfasten waist belt, unfasten chest strap, and loosen shoulder straps before crossing moving water. It is better have your backpack float away than drown!! I am glad all ended well.

In my case, it was a good job I did not unbuckle anything. It was my backpack straps they used to get a grip on me. The ice cold water had made me pass out so could not help myself. But all's well that ends well. Got sick a few days later when without thinking I ate some trail food that was in my pocket and had been contaminated by the river water. Hindsight is great after you make your mistakes. Keep thinking I need to go back and cross that stream again to completely get it out of my system

 

[tpmchugh]

Your tale sounds pretty scary. So good to know there are people out there who were prepared to help without counting the cost. Is there a bridge across this river which was submerged due to flooding?

Yes, a concrete ford but it was slightly under water. Unfortunately the river was now a lot wider than the ford. Would love to go back and get a photo of the ford to get an idea in my own mind of how bad it was

 

[Albertagirl]

Always unfasten waist belt, unfasten chest strap, and loosen shoulder straps before crossing moving water. It is better have your backpack float away than drown!! I am glad all ended well.

@falcon269
I was told this years ago as a way to more safely cross rivers in the Canadian backcountry. I even tried it once or twice. To undo all those attachments put me extremely off balance and made it much more difficult to stay on my feet. I have since made sure that all attachments are secure and have carried a solid wooden walking staff. I lean on this staff, placed securely upstream in the river to give me a third point of balance, two when one foot is moving. I have found that purchased metal walking sticks do not work: I have had them collapse with water inside them or break from too much weight on them. This is what works for me.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

@falcon269
This is what works for me.

That may be true, but it is similar to the statement made by some that they won't wear a seat belt because they could be trapped in a fire. You have to go with the odds. More people drown from being pulled under by their packs than down from having loose gear banging around for a few minutes.

https://www.backpacker.com/videos-photos/survival-skills-how-to-safely-cross-a-river

Scouting
The first thing you should do when reaching the edge of a river or stream that must be forded is to scout for a good location to cross. Don’t assume that the blazed line of site to the other bank is the path you should follow. The volume of water flowing downstream is not constant and the best crossing point can differ depending on weather conditions, temperature, or new hazards that were not present when the blazed crossing point was laid out. River conditions are very dynamic, so a good crossing point on one day may not be safe on another.

Release your Pack
Before you cross a river or stream, you should always make sure to release the hip belt and sternum straps on your backpack so you can jettison it if you lose your footing and get washed downstream. Otherwise, your pack will fill with water and severely compromise your mobility. Water weighs 2 lbs per liter/quart, so if you have a 50 L pack, there’s no way you’ll be able to lift it while you’re fighting for your footing. Let it go and save yourself first.

There are almost no permanent water crossings on the caminos. They generally are temporary conditions due to weather. If you encounter one, it is a good time to control the urge to reach your destination as quickly as possible, and a good time to exercise extreme caution. Spending an extra twenty minutes scouting, changing footwear, and unbuckling your load may be time well-spent.

 

[Travelite]

Unlikely. The 14-day weather forecasts don't indicate exceptional precipitations. Inundations like those in Navarra in the spring of 2018 - the topic of this thread - are a rare occurrence. The Spanish weather office Aemet issues severe weather warnings ("avisos" with levels green, yellow, orange, and red). However, many walkers are not aware of them or don't check.

PS: Use date formats like 8 Sep 2018 instead of 9/8/2018 in Europe as it will help to avoid confusion. Europeans read 9/8/2018 as the 9th of August 2018.

Thanks for that date formation correction. Will do in future. How/ where do I check the weather while on camino? Do I download a weather app on arrival in Europe? Sorry about these silly questions but I need to know when inclement weather is expected. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

where do I check the weather while on camino?

Go out to the weather rock. If rain is falling on it, expect rain...

 

[Kathar1na]

@Travelite, there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers .

In general, you can download weather apps from anywhere, it doesn’t matter whether you are in Spain or not. Better do it from home. However, I can only vouch for iPhone and iPad and as a resident of an EU country. For Spain, I use Meteoblue on the iPhone and this app is not bound to a specific country. I see that I have also downloaded the Spanish AEMET app to my iPad but I’ve never taken it to Spain.

In many bars, they have local newspapers on display and we sometimes have a look at them. And a TV is running all the time in many bars, even in some restaurants, often switched to the news and the weather in the morning. In short, plenty of opportunities to check the forecast but then we are pilgrims who are usually not in a rush .

 

[RJM]

As far as the Camino Frances goes, you should never have to do a dangerous river/creek crossing. If the water is that dangerously high at any of them, look at your guidebook and reroute even if it means backtracking. The two crossings in question on this thread can be avoided by walking on the highway from Burguete to Espinal. You see the water is high at the first crossing, it is going to be high at the second one. Detour. The notion of constructing makeshift bridges out of forest litter and expecting that to be secure is not an option, IMO.
Why risk injury or just plain the inconvenience of being soaking wet from a fall in the river?

 

[tpmchugh]

As far as the Camino Frances goes, you should never have to do a dangerous river/creek crossing. If the water is that dangerously high at any of them, look at your guidebook and reroute even if it means backtracking. The two crossings in question on this thread can be avoided by walking on the highway from Burguete to Espinal. You see the water is high at the first crossing, it is going to be high at the second one. Detour. The notion of constructing makeshift bridges out of forest litter and expecting that to be secure is not an option, IMO.
Why risk injury or just plain the inconvenience of being soaking wet from a fall in the river?

Hindsight is a great thing but it never occurred to me that of the three crossings the last one described as a gentle stream would be the one under water. The makeshift bridge was more than able to take my weight, I just lost my balance on the last 2 ft which was just a single log. How or why I dont know. I do know that trying to get extra purchase by putting my walking pole in did not help. There was no bottom for it to reach and once my weight had shifted there was no turning back. Many others made it ok, some waded through the shallower part at the start but a small number like me went in. Apparently, I was the only one that went in backwards and the ice cold water on the back of my neck knocked me out. Some day I must go back there and have a good look at it but in drier weather

 

[Cambridge Pilgrim]

Hindsight is a great thing but it never occurred to me that of the three crossings the last one described as a gentle stream would be the one under water. The makeshift bridge was more than able to take my weight, I just lost my balance on the last 2 ft which was just a single log. How or why I dont know. I do know that trying to get extra purchase by putting my walking pole in did not help. There was no bottom for it to reach and once my weight had shifted there was no turning back. Many others made it ok, some waded through the shallower part at the start but a small number like me went in. Apparently, I was the only one that went in backwards and the ice cold water on the back of my neck knocked me out. Some day I must go back there and have a good look at it but in drier weather

Is it right that I laughed at that?!?

 

[RJM]

Hindsight is a great thing but it never occurred to me that of the three crossings the last one described as a gentle stream would be the one under water. The makeshift bridge was more than able to take my weight, I just lost my balance on the last 2 ft which was just a single log. How or why I dont know. I do know that trying to get extra purchase by putting my walking pole in did not help. There was no bottom for it to reach and once my weight had shifted there was no turning back. Many others made it ok, some waded through the shallower part at the start but a small number like me went in. Apparently, I was the only one that went in backwards and the ice cold water on the back of my neck knocked me out. Some day I must go back there and have a good look at it but in drier weather

I guess what leaves me shaking my head is a couple of photos attached to this thread showing pilgrims walking across those stone pylons with high water rushing underneath. I can only wonder, why? Not worth the risk of potential injury. Not to mention the just plain inconvenience of even just wet footwear.
It reminds me of a couple of occasions on the Camino when sections were very muddy, and I detoured around the really bad spots and watched pilgrims muck straight through them whilst announcing how terribly muddy it was. Odd.

 

[Davey Boyd]

I guess what leaves me shaking my head is a couple of photos attached to this thread showing pilgrims walking across those stone pylons with high water rushing underneath. I can only wonder, why? Not worth the risk of potential injury. Not to mention the just plain inconvenience of even just wet footwear.
It reminds me of a couple of occasions on the Camino when sections were very muddy, and I detoured around the really bad spots and watched pilgrims muck straight through them whilst announcing how terribly muddy it was. Odd.

I think that was discussed earlier in the thread. But anyway tpmchuch had a very lucky escape and thankfully there were other pilgrims there to rescue him. That he is ok is what matters most.

Davey

 

[Deleted member 3000]

That he is ok is what matters most.

Agreed. Disaster avoided. There are issues, however, of lesser importance worth discussing!

 

[RJM]

I think that was discussed earlier in the thread. But anyway tpmchuch had a very lucky escape and thankfully there were other pilgrims there to rescue him. That he is ok is what matters most.

Davey

Oh really, thanks. You are a vigilant lad.

 

[RJM]

Agreed. Disaster avoided. There are issues, however, of lesser importance worth discussing!

Yes, there was a recent thread that I saw had about 45 posts/comments on it discussing clothesline pins/pegs.
So vital! Edge of seat stuff, it is.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

So vital! Edge of seat stuff, it is.

Did you miss the one on a water heating coil??

 

[Marbe2]

The slippery part is the last bit. You could take the road from that place where you cross the road at Alto de Erro, (there’s a food cart there) but walk the first part of the trail. It’s a pretty walk.

Agree with Annie... I experienced flooding on this section in Sept. 2015...some of the cement on the path going downhill was quite slippery when wet...especially when lined with leaves,wet dirt, etc. The road may be a better option.

Not at all surprised about all the flooding Spring 2018...It rained, hailed or snowed almost everyday between last week of February and 10th of April... and not just an occasional shower!

 

[Kathar1na]

Worth mentioning perhaps for readers who are not familiar with the area and planning their first visit: you don't have to be unduly worried, these inundations were a fairly exceptional weather event in the Spanish region of Navarra during 6 to 13 April 2018 and the result of heavy rains. Naturally, the flooding of streams and rivers moved downstream from one area to the next, it was over after one or two days in the mountainous parts that are the first section of the Camino Frances.

 

[DanielH]

I was also one of those that was part of the Camino gossip on Sunday. We tried to put some branches down and the concrete pasts were under water. My ninja husband hopped across and I went swimming. Very cold, wet walk to Zubiri! I have recovered and we stayed in a private room that night so I could dry EVERYTHING I owned. Huge negative is the ruined cellphone and having to share my husband’s! How does one figure out how to buy a phone reasonably while walking a Camino?

place the phone in a Ziploc bag of rice to dry it out

 

[tpmchugh]

I guess what leaves me shaking my head is a couple of photos attached to this thread showing pilgrims walking across those stone pylons with high water rushing underneath. I can only wonder, why? Not worth the risk of potential injury. Not to mention the just plain inconvenience of even just wet footwear.
It reminds me of a couple of occasions on the Camino when sections were very muddy, and I detoured around the really bad spots and watched pilgrims muck straight through them whilst announcing how terribly muddy it was. Odd.

Unfortunately, I never got as far as the dragons teeth or pylons. The road would have been the only option at that flood. A rescue guy told me that fast flowing water just ankle deep can take the strongest off their feet. I had to cross another one just before Uterga. I stood looking at it and thought, 'Not another bloody one'. Fortunately not very deep and my poles became third and fourth feet to get me across. Not too wide or deep but flowing very fast. Got to Puente la Reina and the trail was some three feet under water. Turned back and got a bus, others tried to wade through waist high water and one French guy almost got swept away. As we passed the junction leading to the trail, the police were putting up barriers to stop anyone else trying it. Got to Estella to find city streets flooded where the river had burst its banks. It was one wet Camino. Government of Navarra declared a state of emergency or the Spanish equivalent. Cant quite remember what they called it

 

[domigee]

. It was one wet Camino. Government of Navarra declared a state of emergency or the Spanish equivalent. Cant quite remember what they called it

Situación de emergencia.... I well remember reading about it.... So glad you were OK.

 

[SeattleJen]

Worth mentioning perhaps for readers who are not familiar with the area and planning their first visit: you don't have to be unduly worried, these inundations were a fairly exceptional weather event in the Spanish region of Navarra during 6 to 13 April 2018 and the result of heavy rains. Naturally, the flooding of streams and rivers moved downstream from one area to the next, it was over after one or two days in the mountainous parts that are the first section of the Camino Frances.

I took pictures of the urban flooding in Estella on 12 April 2018 (at the bottom of this post): https://caminojen.com/2018/04/12/day-8-really-maneru-to-estella/ It was fascinating to see as a visitor, but heartbreaking when you realized these were people's homes and businesses (even the library was flooded).

 

[Willigsu]

Unfortunately, I never got as far as the dragons teeth or pylons. The road would have been the only option at that flood. A rescue guy told me that fast flowing water just ankle deep can take the strongest off their feet. I had to cross another one just before Uterga. I stood looking at it and thought, 'Not another bloody one'. Fortunately not very deep and my poles became third and fourth feet to get me across. Not too wide or deep but flowing very fast. Got to Puente la Reina and the trail was some three feet under water. Turned back and got a bus, others tried to wade through waist high water and one French guy almost got swept away. As we passed the junction leading to the trail, the police were putting up barriers to stop anyone else trying it. Got to Estella to find city streets flooded where the river had burst its banks. It was one wet Camino. Government of Navarra declared a state of emergency or the Spanish equivalent. Cant quite remember what they called it

Just logged in for the first time in a long time and saw your post. I was your fellow “swimmer” that day-we met and were able to give each other a hug at the wine fountain wall. The experience has become part of my camino story! The Way is certainly I place for making memories.

 

[tpmchugh]

Just logged in for the first time in a long time and saw your post. I was your fellow “swimmer” that day-we met and were able to give each other a hug at the wine fountain wall. The experience has become part of my camino story! The Way is certainly I place for making memories.

Some memories indeed but I would have preferred something dryer Our friend Brian Wong posted his video on Vimeo of our meeting at the wine fountain at Irache