Delicate subject - catholes

[Deleted member 61803]

etc.

 

[Mark Lee]

Good post and advice and that would be nice if the guilty peregrinos buried their own waste.
Unfortunately the majority of pilgrims are not the outdoorsy type and the Camino is the first time in their life they have strapped a backpack on, and walked a long distance. I talked to many that had never slept outdoors before (not that one needs to on the Camino Frances) and I would dare say that until the Camino 99% have never even just peed outdoors, let alone shat.

 

[cher99840]

in the 480 miles (give or take) from SJPP to SdC, I only had one emergency poo stop and no, I didn't take it with me. I did take out the TP, as I did after my multiple pee stops. I plan ahead for my biologic needs which are fortunately usually consistent, and I have no intention of carrying trowel or tent peg (although I do think the tent peg is brilliant if one chooses to cathole). Bring it on..that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

 

[cher99840]

Well at least you know how to deal with the TP.

Now, how many thousand people per year walk the CF? If each one has one poo then how many poos openly litter the countryside of Northern Spain.

Surely two minutes to scratch a hole and leave it buried and allow it to degrade more quickly is not too much bother, or is it. Also keeps the niff down in the more popular places, which has also been mentioned a few times.

P.s. I am attempting to get my body trained to Camino time, but dagnabbit I hate having to get up at 5 each morning, my wife has suddenly taken to mentioning that I should maybe be taking a trip to the docs as she is unaware of my training regime in its finer details. She has also totally refused breakfast in bed at that time, also and cannot understand why I am eating lunch at breakfast time

I don't disagree with your premise, but the actualization would mean carrying a "what if" or "might need" item and for me, that's just not going to happen.

 

[Mark Lee]

Hi Mark Lee. Not been on the Camino yet but I think, having avidly followed it for a couple of months, that you may be correct. Hopefully this bit of reading may help them mend their unintended ways.

My last remaining paranoia about the Camino remains (and probably will remain so til I've finished) to be bed bugs. Oh, No amount of advice that they don't happen is going to drive that from my mind!

I forgot to mention ticks!

Yeah, taking the proverbial dump outdoors on the Camino is a delicate matter, but it is reality and there are a lot of delicate inquiries about it. I never had to. I always did my business at the albergue or pensiones. If at an albergue, I'd just wake up before everyone else did, and go to the toilet then. Easy peasy. and bring some toilet paper with you nonetheless. Not just for in case you go outdoors, but also for use in the albergue. Quite often the toilet paper gets used up before morning. You go in the stall, and there's nothing on the TP roll. I kept half a roll in my pack, with the cardboard removed, and scrunched down in a plastic ziplock bag. Lasted me the entire CF.
As far as tinkling? Pee away unabashed, and don't inadvertently pee on a ground wasp's nest in the ditch like I did on the meseta a couple of years ago. I was happily watering the earth and noticed them flying around in front of me, and looked down and sure enough I was hitting their home directly. Must have 50 of them on it. Thank goodness it was chilly that morning and they were sluggish. I'm sure I looked silly running down the path while zipping up.
Don't worry about the bedbugs. I never saw any on multiple CF's and worrying about them is needless. Why would you do it? I advocate planning a Camino (or any vacation) without concern. Walk without fears and worries. Que sera sera....
Don't worry about ticks. Never saw them. I'm sure they're out there in the woods in thick brush and on animals, but you won't make contact with them while walking the path. It's 99% wide open path, over rocks, gravel, dirt, sand, concrete and blacktop. Not a wilderness hike in any stretch of the imagination, and ticks do not inhabit albergues. They need brush or high grass to attach onto a host as they pass by.
ultreia

 

[Mark Lee]

What if a stick was nearby which you could also use to scratch the hole then leave it where it had been found? Hey presto no carrying required, and the same effect on the land , i.e. your back yard.

yeah, what she said....don't carry "what-if's" and leave the "what if" thinking at home
que sera sera

 

[dailycamino]

in the 480 miles (give or take) from SJPP to SdC, I only had one emergency poo stop and no, I didn't take it with me. I did take out the TP, as I did after my multiple pee stops. I plan ahead for my biologic needs which are fortunately usually consistent, and I have no intention of carrying trowel or tent peg (although I do think the tent peg is brilliant if one chooses to cathole). Bring it on..that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

You can always just use a stick to dig a hole, that's what I always do, no fancy equipment needed

 

[Hiawatha]

The sight of tissues strewn about near bush campsites always infuriates me . In some circumstances all around the only source of drinking water for miles . Those who claim they '' never need to pee'' while walking long distances are either lying , deluded, severely dehydrated , or all three and as far as '' training your bowels '' goes , well I wish I could train mine to be less disobedient .
Digging a hole is the last resort really , taking it with you is the responsible thing to do . Buy a roll of dog poo bags from a pet shop , less than a eighty grams for a hundred bags , half the roll would weigh forty . As avid bushwalkers my companions and I '' Only ever take photographs and leave nothing but footprints'' . Consider stepping onto someone else's deposit buried under an inch of loosely tamped earth , or seeing the same unearthed by a wandering dog or wild pig . It is no wonder local farmers become irate .

 

[MCFearnley]

buried under an inch of loosely tamped earth

A proper cat hole is 6 to 8 inches deep. If someone is burying waste under an inch of soil, they are doing it wrong.

 

[Mark Lee]

The sight of tissues strewn about near bush campsites always infuriates me . In some circumstances all around the only source of drinking water for miles . Those who claim they '' never need to pee'' while walking long distances are either lying , deluded, severely dehydrated , or all three and as far as '' training your bowels '' goes , well I wish I could train mine to be less disobedient .
Digging a hole is the last resort really , taking it with you is the responsible thing to do . Buy a roll of dog poo bags from a pet shop , less than a eighty grams for a hundred bags , half the roll would weigh forty . As avid bushwalkers my companions and I '' Only ever take photographs and leave nothing but footprints'' . Consider stepping onto someone else's deposit buried under an inch of loosely tamped earth , or seeing the same unearthed by a wandering dog or wild pig . It is no wonder local farmers become irate .

Dude, I commend your dedication to the environment and greenness and I raise the Heineken currently in my meathooks to you for that dedication, but one thing I have never done, nor will I ever do is carry around a turd in my pocket. Not my turd, nor any other turd. cheers
Now I will definitely bury it, though. learned about catholes when I used to backpack some in college, and then again in the military.

 

[Icacos]

....... but one thing I have never done, nor will I ever do is carry around a turd in my pocket.

Well, Mark, I wouldn't like to tell you what I learned from an REI person who has spent some time in "the Canyon"........and she seemed to think it was the most normal thing in the world.

 

[Mike Trebert]

No catholes necessary for moi. I've been a vegetarian for almost half a century. There are outcomes (sic) other than ethical smugness. Regularity of peristalsis is a joy. I get death threats from prunes. Every morning make a move from horizontal to vertical and voila. If there's a slight delay, no worries, eat breakfast and peristalsis will trigger and an alternate voila. On my CF this year I watered the petunias many times but never not once had to even think about holes of any kind.

Buen Camino you godless, low-roughage carnivores.

 

[Kanga]

I'm a carnivore Mike, but in 9 long distance walks through France and Spain I have never needed to poo anywhere other than in a toilet. Nor has my husband.

But if I did I would be carrying it to the next village in a plastic bag.

 

[Mike Trebert]

I'm a carnivore Mike, but in 9 long distance walks through France and Spain I have never needed to poo anywhere other than in a toilet. Nor has my husband.

But if I did I would be carrying it to the next village in a plastic bag.

Good to know. I carried ziplock bags with me for rubbish and whatever, reused them after washing! I'll be prepared to lend (edit: Give!) to carnivores in future. You didn't specify ziplock, but I assume...

 

[Waka]

In my 42 days on the CF I was never taken short, it's amazing how Vino keeps you regular.

 

[Penny Kingma]

I truly couldn't understand this seemingly right of passage to go on the trail. I've birthed 5 children and have an over active bladder...and still never felt it couldn't wait till the next town. Truly baffled me . Seriously if you feel the urge ...think about something else...hum a tune....and take sips not gulps along the way.

 

[Penny Kingma]

The sight of tissues strewn about near bush campsites always infuriates me . In some circumstances all around the only source of drinking water for miles . Those who claim they '' never need to pee'' while walking long distances are either lying , deluded, severely dehydrated , or all three and as far as '' training your bowels '' goes , well I wish I could train mine to be less disobedient .
Digging a hole is the last resort really , taking it with you is the responsible thing to do . Buy a roll of dog poo bags from a pet shop , less than a eighty grams for a hundred bags , half the roll would weigh forty . As avid bushwalkers my companions and I '' Only ever take photographs and leave nothing but footprints'' . Consider stepping onto someone else's deposit buried under an inch of loosely tamped earth , or seeing the same unearthed by a wandering dog or wild pig . It is no wonder local farmers become irate .

Not lying....took sips not gulps along the way. Took long drinks at rest stops and used the facilities before leaving. I've driven around Iceland 4 times. Rest stops, towns or villages are few and far between...even a tree for privacy....nil. Yes you learn to adapt. Hugs my friend

 

[Mike Trebert]

Not lying....took sips not gulps along the way. Took long drinks at rest stops and used the facilities before leaving. I've driven around Iceland 4 times. Rest stops, towns or villages are few and far between...even a tree for privacy....nil. Yes you learn to adapt. Hugs my friend

All the way around Iceland 4 times!! Desperation! Somebody should plant some bushes up there.

 

[Penny Kingma]

Yes four different trips. Hiked and driven....beautiful country...lovely people.

 

[linkster]

Well, Mark, I wouldn't like to tell you what I learned from an REI person who has spent some time in "the Canyon"........and she seemed to think it was the most normal thing in the world.

Leave no trace practices are relative to the environment. On our Grand Canyon trip, you peed in the river and solid waste was removed. There is not enough rain to help dissolve or wash away the pee or help with the compost of solid waste.

 

[Mark Lee]

I truly couldn't understand this seemingly right of passage to go on the trail. I've birthed 5 children and have an over active bladder...and still never felt it couldn't wait till the next town. Truly baffled me . Seriously if you feel the urge ...think about something else...hum a tune....and take sips not gulps along the way.

While walking the CF, on average I would consume about 5-6 liters of water a day. Some, cooler days less of course. Happy thoughts and tunes weren't gonna make the waters recede.
Besides, ya gotta pee, ya gotta pee......why avoid proper hydration or hold it in and risk kidney stones, bladder infections, etc?

 

[Mark Lee]

No catholes necessary for moi. I've been a vegetarian for almost half a century. There are outcomes (sic) other than ethical smugness. Regularity of peristalsis is a joy. I get death threats from prunes. Every morning make a move from horizontal to vertical and voila. If there's a slight delay, no worries, eat breakfast and peristalsis will trigger and an alternate voila. On my CF this year I watered the petunias many times but never not once had to even think about holes of any kind.

Buen Camino you godless, low-roughage carnivores.

Good, albeit smug post there.
I enjoyed reading whilst munching on a sausage biscuit (whole wheat ) with sausage meat made from an 8-point buck I shot last week.
tis good to be a carnivore....time to hit the bench and move some iron vertically

 

[Mark Lee]

Well, Mark, I wouldn't like to tell you what I learned from an REI person who has spent some time in "the Canyon"........and she seemed to think it was the most normal thing in the world.

bless her heart....
I sure hope that I never reach a point in my life where expended turd transport become a normal thing to do.

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

I had never heard of 'cat holes' until I read this forum. I thought they'd be like 'pot holes'. Come to think of it, 'pot holes' might be a very apt name ....
Be happy.
Keep your legs crossed [difficult on a bike ]

 

[Icacos]

bless her heart....
I sure hope that I never reach a point in my life where expended turd transport become a normal thing to do.

Good to hear! I'm very glad to see that you are, and hope to continue to be, selective about where you, um.....go ..... on your time off.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

bless her heart....
I sure hope that I never reach a point in my life where expended turd transport become a normal thing to do.

This whole thread is giving me stomach cramps! I'm alternating between laughing and shaking my head.

First, we have those that NEVER have an unregulated physical need; those who are so in control of their bodily functions that they can't IMAGINE someone suddenly needing to drop a deuce without a road map.

Next, we have those who have apparently taken huge advantage of the best that rough hiking has to offer--and who understand that expended T. T. (see Mark Lee's reference above) is necessary in some environments.

The reasonable cat-hole diggers seem to have hit the "three bears" measure for me. Justtttttt right. Remember this!

If you must leave a special rock
along the sacred Way
Tis time to dig, and off the trail
to keep the stench at bay.

Honestly, we probably don't need to work toward consensus on this sticky wicket, as it were. I admire those of you with such great control over your bodies, and also those of you who aren't tempted by the smell of Mark Lee's venison sizzling in the pan, but I think it's time for another cup of coffee!

 

[Icacos]

Leave no trace practices are relative to the environment. On our Grand Canyon trip, you peed in the river and solid waste was removed. There is not enough rain to help dissolve or wash away the pee or help with the compost of solid waste.

In more than one park in the Canadian north that I've visited, where the environment is very delicate and there are a lot of visitors, bodily waste is deposited in large above ground outhouses, and flown out periodically by helicopter. Helicopter costs being what they are, I was told by a park ranger that each visit to the outhouse is worth about $40.

 

[cher99840]

In more than one park in the Canadian north that I've visited, where the environment is very delicate and there are a lot of visitors, bodily waste is deposited in large above ground outhouses, and flown out periodically by helicopter. Helicopter costs being what they are, I was told by a park ranger that each visit to the outhouse is worth about $40.

The outhouses that I used on the Chilkoot Trail in the Yukon were compostable toilets. I guess they work OK as they are not as nasty as most outhouses that I've experienced.

 

[wayfarer]

@Jimmy Smith started a Thread yesterday called "A delicate subject-catholes" I miss read this as "A delicate subject-catholics" on first seeing it, and thought God nooo, not another thread about religion that will end badly. With my hand poised over the big red moderator button I was a tad confused when I read the first post, and wondered what this had to do with Catholics on the Camino, I checked the title again, much to my relief, no pun intended, it was a different subject entirely.

 

[jmcarp]

Ok I'll change the "what if there is a stick nearby" to "there will almost certainly be a stick or other object near by".

I wouldn't count on that, at least not one sturdy enough to dig a hole with.

 

[MCFearnley]

Now I am a little confused about the placement of the TP at the bottom of the cathole. My normal order of things is to make my deposit, use TP for what it was meant, discard TP. That would put the TP on the top of the pile. Would the TP at the bottom imply making ones deposit next to the hole and then scraping the leavings into the cathole once done with the TP going in first? Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

[Ian T]

You could always use a Pogo Stick

 

[t2andreo]

I write with some authority on the subject as: (1) I have had to "answer the call" over my four Camino's; and (2) I just finished my fourth full day cleaning up the Camino across Palencia.

The single most / WORST trash issue is used toilet tissue and clean-up "wipes" both the "brown" variety and simply yellow... it is incredible, the sheer volume we found each day.

Evidently, whether just blowing one's nose, or going "full-squat," people think nothing of just using and tossing their toilet paper or tissues...anywhere and everywhere.

As a general rule, if you pack it in, like toilet tissue, PACK IT OUT. Obtain and save a few plastic bags, like the those from a farmacia. They take nil space and weigh nothing.

Human feces decompose on the surface in a month or two, unless deep frozen. However the paper tissue lasts for a couple of years. I KNOW, because I have been picking it up for four days.

Let me make this clear... THE CAMINO DE SANTIAGO IS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE YOUR PERSONAL OUT-HOUSE AND LANDFILL...

Please act responsibly....THINK!

See the separate.thread on "Ditch Pigs, They're Back!"

I hope this helps. The "shouting" was occasioned by my passion for the Camino and my just finished stint as a "Ditch Pig." If you were here you would understand and agree...totally!

 

[SYates]

@t2andreo and I cleaned up between Carrion de los Condes und Villacazar de Sirga - 'only 6km' - that was all what we did today, here is how Don Limpio, the Ditch Pig Trash Cart looked as we finished:

 

[cher99840]

Thank you ditch pigs for making it better for all of us.

 

[Penny Kingma]

Well, Penny, hopefully you will read the linked article so you know how to cope should personal disaster, in this regard, strike at any time in the future!
http://sectionhiker.com/how-to-dig-a-cathole/

Truly apologize if I seemed smug or some how hurtful to others. Please understand not my intention. Can you take a minute to understand my shock to watch men and women laughing and dropping there pants many times steps from the trail not even attempting to shield themselves from others. My apologies

 

[Rod Murray]

Having read a number of threads about body waste in certain areas of the Camino. I wonder how many people know how to deal with the situation when "caught short".

Can I recommend a wee bit of night time reading via http://sectionhiker.com/how-to-dig-a-cathole/

I like the tent peg idea for digging and burying human waste etc. Perhaps the famous (serious, despite the title) environmental book "How to Sh*t in the Woods" should be required reading for prospective peregrinos (in all seriousness!). There is an updated companion book "How to Sh*t Around the World: The Art of Staying Clean and Healthy While Traveling" and a German translation of the first title .

I have to say that I was shocked at the amount of TP that was often scattered just off the Camino Frances when one had to answer the call of nature. As a former Outward Bound instructor, I was well trained in disguising my off trail visits and making sure waste decomposed as quickly as possible, by digging a shallow hole and covering with dirt and leaf litter (in areas in Galicia where eucalypts are prevalent, remember that they do not decompose very quickly so use other leaves).

I was surprised to find that there were no portable toilets in villages along the Camino. I surmised that the cafés may not want them as a way to divert more people into their establishments with the hope that visitors would patronize the places while using the toilets. Putting portables outside would actually draw more people in, I think.

Perhaps this is a problem where peregrinos could have an impact? What if each national Pilgrim association sponsored the seasonal rental of a set of portable toilets in high traffic areas along the trail, along with weekly maintenance? This would send a stronger message to Pilgrims about their environmental impact along the trail. The location of these could be added to the Resources here. Just a suggestion for a serious problem. I'm sure there will be others.

 

[Mike Trebert]

This is a top thread. Sometimes I end up feeling bad about pushing a bit to far but someone usually just gets crazier or seriouser. I do enjoy the way an OP can sometimes get left behind on some other planet and the thread staying relevant/informative.

 

[Kanga]

@Rod Murray sadly the portaloo concept has been tried and failed in several villages - people put all kinds of stuff in them so that they filled up, overflowed, **** seeped out the doors and they became simply garbage holders with doors held open by the rubbish inside. Unless you had someone emptying and cleaning them at least once a day, it won't work. For maintenance purposes they would have to be reasonably accessible and close to a village or town - not where they are most needed.

I've also though about the "long drop" toilets we have in remote areas in Australia but concluded they would not work either, because they require diligent following of the rules (only compostable material).

The western world does not seem to be able to operate in a way that subjugates individual freedom to community good, as happens in places like Japan.

It is also well to remember that there is no overarching "authority" that can organise things along the camino. Each tiny village is responsible for what happens in that village, and many have no funds to spend on public works. Let alone a political infrastructure.

Education, education, education. If we keep hammering the subject and passing the word around (ziplock bags?) we might eventually get a change of camino culture.

So, in the meantime, many thanks to the Ditch Pigs.

 

[MCFearnley]

Now I am a little confused about the placement of the TP at the bottom of the cathole. My normal order of things is to make my deposit, use TP for what it was meant, discard TP. That would put the TP on the top of the pile. Would the TP at the bottom imply making ones deposit next to the hole and then scraping the leavings into the cathole once done with the TP going in first? Inquiring minds would like to know.

By the way, my question is serious. I am not being flippant here.

 

[Hiawatha]

@t2andreo and SYates are saints of the first order .
I have packed out the same sorts of waste tissue left by unthinking fools many times in the past . It is no holiday and frankly when in a bush circumstance a potential health hazard . My own waste I can cope with , I did in fact produce it in the first place , so I am just carrying it along in a different way . Picking up and carrying out the waste of others , albeit ' Just ' tissue '' which will decompose anyway '' [ not !] is a trial and truly disgusting .

 

[Hiawatha]

By the way, my question is serious. I am not being flippant here.

The mechanics are simple really , instead of digging first you 'perform ' then dig . It does make sense if you have to dispose of it on a walk . Digging the hole first assumes you have a good sense of balance and decent aim , this might not always be the case . Digging afterwards lets you take more time at it [ assuming the need was urgent ] and scraping the deposits into the hole in whichever way you see fit .

 

[Icacos]

Now I am a little confused about the placement of the TP at the bottom of the cathole. My normal order of things is to make my deposit, use TP for what it was meant, discard TP. That would put the TP on the top of the pile. Would the TP at the bottom imply making ones deposit next to the hole and then scraping the leavings into the cathole once done with the TP going in first? Inquiring minds would like to know.

By the way, my question is serious. I am not being flippant here.

I'm glad you asked this question. I like to keep things in order too. As you say .... inquiring minds.

 

[Icacos]

The mechanics are simple really , instead of digging first you 'perform ' then dig . It does make sense if you have to dispose of it on a walk . Digging the hole first assumes you have a good sense of balance and decent aim , this might not always be the case . Digging afterwards lets you take more time at it [ assuming the need was urgent ] and scraping the deposits into the hole in whichever way you see fit .

There we are. Brilliantly explained. Thank you.

 

[MCFearnley]

Thanks @Charles Zammit. That is exactly what I needed to know. So there is no need to have good aim, that is a relief (no pun intended, but oh so appropriate).

 

[linkster]

This may help with your aim if balance is a problem Loop N' Poop. I really like all of the accessories .

 

[Penny Kingma]

I write with some authority on the subject as: (1) I have had to "answer the call" over my four Camino's; and (2) I just finished my fourth full day cleaning up the Camino across Palencia.

The single most / WORST trash issue is used toilet tissue and clean-up "wipes" both the "brown" variety and simply yellow... it is incredible, the sheer volume we found each day.

Evidently, whether just blowing one's nose, or going "full-squat," people think nothing of just using and tossing their toilet paper or tissues...anywhere and everywhere.

As a general rule, if you pack it in, like toilet tissue, PACK IT OUT. Obtain and save a few plastic bags, like the those from a farmacia. They take nil space and weigh nothing.

Human feces decompose on the surface in a month or two, unless deep frozen. However the paper tissue lasts for a couple of years. I KNOW, because I have been picking it up for four days.

Let me make this clear... THE CAMINO DE SANTIAGO IS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE YOUR PERSONAL OUT-HOUSE AND LANDFILL...

Please act responsibly....THINK!

See the separate.thread on "Ditch Pigs, They're Back!"

I hope this helps. The "shouting" was occasioned by my passion for the Camino and my just finished stint as a "Ditch Pig." If you were here you would understand and agree...totally!

I took along twelve cotton hankies to use for nose blowing. I handed all 11 out along the way. Just wash it out with the rest of your laundry everyday

 

[Mark Lee]

This whole thread is giving me stomach cramps! I'm alternating between laughing and shaking my head.

First, we have those that NEVER have an unregulated physical need; those who are so in control of their bodily functions that they can't IMAGINE someone suddenly needing to drop a deuce without a road map.

Next, we have those who have apparently taken huge advantage of the best that rough hiking has to offer--and who understand that expended T. T. (see Mark Lee's reference above) is necessary in some environments.

The reasonable cat-hole diggers seem to have hit the "three bears" measure for me. Justtttttt right. Remember this!

If you must leave a special rock
along the sacred Way
Tis time to dig, and off the trail
to keep the stench at bay.

Honestly, we probably don't need to work toward consensus on this sticky wicket, as it were. I admire those of you with such great control over your bodies, and also those of you who aren't tempted by the smell of Mark Lee's venison sizzling in the pan, but I think it's time for another cup of coffee!

it's good stuff, ain't it....
when I lived in Texas was good ground, uncut, straight up in a chili....washed down with a longneck

 

[Mark Lee]

@t2andreo and I cleaned up between Carrion de los Condes und Villacazar de Sirga - 'only 6km' - that was all what we did today, here is how Don Limpio, the Ditch Pig Trash Cart looked as we finished:

much gratitude....

 

[t2andreo]

All

The article linked states that it would be preferable to bag your TP and carry it out, along with wet wipe s and other hygiene material. Only bury TP if necessary or if you cannot bring yourself to bag it.

A trowel allows the poop scooping to be easier than a stick would but yes scrape it into the hole then cover.
Trowels (lightweight) are available for the purpose on the WWW very cheaply. They are also not huge. I use an aluminium triangular tent peg because they are so light, strong and have other uses.

The Ditch pigs deserve an enormous amount of thanks for the donation of their work. Do you have a way of making donations towards equipment/ lodgings etc. Preferably PayPal. If so please can you open a thread giving details.

All donations should be made via PayPal to the Peaceable Kingdom, operated by fellow forum member, veteran Peregrino, and secular saint of the highest order, Rebekah Scott. You can find the donation link at Rebekah's blog about doings at the Peaceable: www.moratinos.blogspot.com (I hope I got that right).

I hope this works. Please, do be generous...VERY GENEROUS...

Whether it is coordinating the annual "Ditch Pig" cleanup and hosting the "Pigs", restarting and running the old refugio / donativo albergue at the San Anton monastery ruins, coordinating reopening mostly closed churches near where she lives on the Meseta, hosting visiting priests in her home during the summer season, coordinating all things Camino with the "powers that be," or just being there for any and every pilgrim who crosses her threshold 24 x 7, you can be damn sure that 100 percent of anything you can afford to contribute WILL go directly or indirectly into something to support the Camino.

So if you are looking to make a meaningful donation at this time of year, THIS is a downright deserving effort.

They also have a menagerie of five dogs, a cat (all found and rescued) and a lovebird named Hillary. Veterinary care is expensive and some of these, God's creatures, needed TLC to fix their wounds and keep them hale and hearty. These are NOT pedigreed luxury dogs. They mostly had hard lives before they came to the Peaceable Kingdom. There, the example of St. Francis, and of Christian hospitality reigns supreme.

As s consequence of all this do-gooding,
Rebekah and her husband Patrick (aka "Paddy") frequently go without or make do, to ensure that no one is ever turned away.

So, as regards donations, JUST DO IT! No amount is too small. All of it goes to worthwhile activities, and you are helping the Camino in the broadest sense.

I hope this helps.

 

[SYates]

I couldn't agree more with what @t2andreo wrote: Here a pic of part of the 'menagerie':

Rosie (background) was found as a puppy/young dog in a Galician forest with a broken leg, Tims story I don't know, but he has hip dysplasia now at the age of ~8 years. From the pic you see how well they are cared for at the Peaceable. As well as the pigs that picked the ditches and the pilgrims and anybody else that requires assistance that knocks on the door.

A truly special place worth supporting, SY

 

[Penny Kingma]

Sorry Jimmy
Thank you to the ditch pigs....but
Prevention is the best medicine.
I can't believe this is something I have to argue.
Seriously it's a very strange place we live when humans just poop or pee at will but we train our dogs it's bad to do so.
I may sound wrong to some but on this I will accept to be in the few instead of the popular .
Hugs and in future step carefully as it may be where you've stepped before.
The photo above is right on the trail. I was hot and tired searching for a place to rest. The M.S. pain in my feet through the roof. I rejoiced at seeing this flat rock right on the edge of the trail to sit and rest. After sitting and removing my shoes to try and calm the pain I noticed a horrible smell. I rose to notice the flat rock created a gap. Looking I saw that it had been used as a toilet. My feet never left the trail to take this seat. It was disgusting then and still is.

 

[C clearly]

...but
Prevention is the best medicine.
I can't believe this is something I have to argue.

No one is arguing about whether people should properly take care of their bodily wastes on the camino, and not leave messes such as you encountered!

I'm just not sure that "prevention" is an approach that is practical and 100% reliable for most of us, so we need to know how to handle the unexpected!

 

[Kanga]

I don't remember toilet paper or waste being an issue at all on any of the routes in France. Certainly there is litter alongside highways (from cars and trucks) but the walking paths, to my observation, were pristine. Certainly not as many users as the CF, but the Le Puy is pretty popular and it was fine - although last seen by me 6 years ago, so things might have changed. Any observations about heavily used walking paths in other parts of Europe?

 

[Penny Kingma]

Just to clarify
I'm 52 mother of 5 grandmother of 6
I have M.S. ...I had two Cemo treatments 6 months before my Camino for skin cancer
I suffer from an over active bladder and irritable bowel syndrome....some say from the M.S. When I'm home it's hard to walk past a bathroom.
What I observed was not the aging community but the entitled that celebrated in the fact it was there 2nd or third time that day on the trail. I do understand how needs arise. Yes I have an ability to power through unfortunately maybe from my abused background. In this day in age it just seems like in many things, a right. Impatience when the drive thru is slow, people expect to snap there fingers and all needs are taken care of. It scares me of what the future holds if people continue to increase the feelings of entitlement.
I understand why the thread was started. I just think the masses need to understand that for many it's a sacred trail. We are the guests ....and should do all we can to protect this beautiful wonder. Believe me I get just as rattled in other forms of defacing this beautiful world. Hiking is something I enjoy and have NEVER come across this to such a degree as on the Camino. I'm sure that people of varying ages have traveled it for centuries. I can also assume that this is a new phenomenon.
I know I'm coming off as a bit of a ..... I am actually a health professional and a very thoughtful, caring, self sacrificing person. I would and have given my last dime or share my wares to help others. Believe me if I found a person in desperate need out there I would have assisted in finding a spot or offered tissues etc.
Truly didn't really see that individual.
Hugs and Love
Buen Camino

 

[C clearly]

@Penny Klingma , I am sorry that we seem to have a disagreement. It shows the limitation of short messages on the internet. It sounds like you encountered inconsiderate people who would have annoyed me too!

I think there are 2 separate issues here:

1. Toilet paper and human waste on the camino, due to the number of people, the shortage of toilets, and the lack of education about littering and waste management. Here on the forum we all agree that we should be responsible and several methods have been proposed.
2. There is a cultural difference between some countries with respect to the very act of elimination. (See post above by @Kathar1na). Probably most Canadian/American women have never squatted in the outdoors and it feels very improper! It is different in many other countries.

We should put our attention to the problem we agree on, which is that feces and toilet paper should always be well buried or carried out to proper disposal. Education is the solution.

Personally, I have peed many times along the Camino, but have never left toilet paper. In doing so, I never thought I was entitled, impatient (except for the obvious) or rude, and I usually did it before I was in desperate need. I was simply doing the reasonable thing. As far as I know, leaving a small amount of urine on the countryside is not an environmentally irresponsible act.

If we had been walking together, I think you would have found me to be a modest and responsible person. I hope that you would not have been offended when I went off the trail to find some cover, did my quick deed, and caught up with you. Perhaps you would have said that you never found it necessary to do that, and then we might have discussed the litter problem. If I were a person who casually left toilet paper behind, then our conversation might have made me rethink that practice. (I have cheerfully informed otherwise-responsible people that they shouldn't toss orange peels or banana peels, since they decompose so slowly. They have been a bit surprised but have not taken offense and at least the idea was planted.)

So, let's not confuse the litter problem with modesty/self-control/entitlement issues!

 

[Penny Kingma]

Truly I found the Camino to be an amazing experience. I am aware of differences of peoples of the world. I'm not as narrow minded as you seem to think. As I love you all and understand the differences in people's views .... I will close my end of the discussion.
Buen Camino

 

[C clearly]

I'm not as narrow minded as you seem to think.

I don't think that. Really! I believe we would have walked and talked happily together. In fact any of us here on this thread!

I think that the way we express things in the forum (as in real life) has limitations and sometimes the key points are muddled. I was trying to separate the issues to clarify the discussion - we all have preferences and differences in styles that make life interesting.

 

[ShellsG]

Well off topic but on topic I have to say this ... on my Camino last fall I came across a lady crawling out of pretty thick brush, pulling up her pants, with her full backpack on AND smoking a cigarette .... and all I could think was DAMN, thats talent..