Descent from Alto Mezqueriz and Zubiri

[annelise]

Thanks to all for your wonderful advice on this site (have now booked plane tickets).

My concern (having studied the Brierley guide), is now how difficult the descents between Roncesvalles and Zubiri will be – my first day of walking. (And I have no ambition of breaking any records – but to just take my time).

I am not in perfect shape for undertaking the camino, but I know that it is something I need to do.
Best, Annelise (Denmark)

 

[Canuck]

Annelise,

My two-cent worth of advise:
Take it easy at first.
Don't do it in one stretch.
It will pay you back.

Cheers,
Jean-Marc

 

[ranthr]

Hei Annelise.
I have walked this stage three times. The first time was in middle of May 2005. It was a terrible weather and most of the paths were bad, some streches like walking in a river, wet and muddy.
Next time end of April 2007 the rain started in the afternoon, so it was a bit better but some bits were very muddy. Walked there in September 2009. I had heavy rain over from St. Jean to Roncesvalles so even if the weather was not so bad the path was very muddy because of the previous rainfall. You do need walkingpoles at some of these streches. I would suggest gaters too. With gaters you avoid getting the mud into your shoes.Think a lot of people hurt their knees or ancles this first or second day, so be careful and take your time.
Last October I had a short week in Baskerland and started a short walk from St. Jean Pied du Port. Wonder if the mountain really does not like me because this time too the weather was really bad, heavy rain and wind all day. Therefore I took the bus from Burguete to Pamplona the next morning so I cannot tell you if there have been some changes to the better due to the holy year.
I hope you get wonderful weather and have a nice trip down to Zubiri.
randi

 

[sillydoll]

I really struggle going downhill - even down stairs!
But, I can't say that I've ever struggled between Roncesvalles and Zubiri.
The first few km are a doddle - along a forest path and then through a few small villages, then through farming country. Going down a few earth cut steps to Zubiri is a bit tricky but this is not mountain country, no boulders, no scrambling - just a steady trek. After Larrasoana - on the way to Trinidad de Arre - there is a detour from the original path that washed away a few years ago that goes steeply up from a carpark but there really isn't anything to worry about. Just take it easy and enjoy!

 

[LTfit]

Hi Annelise,

Although I walked the stretch last July I don't recall the descent being difficult. In fact if you were to ask me how it was (without looking it up) I would have said that it was flat! I was quite surprised to see that the overall elevation drop is in fact 400 m!

Downhills are not my favorite so I agree with the suggestion to use walking poles - your knees will thank you and you will feel more secure and stable!

Cheers,
Lee

 

[gregdedman]

Hi Annalise,

This section can seem steep in places especially in wet weather and after a long morning walking but its really not too bad. Of course if you have sore knees then it can feel like a punishing descent and having led walkers in mountains, a walking stick, pole, staff or fallen branch for the downhill sections will always help. As Sil has mentioned , before this descent you walk through forest and if you see a fallen branch long enough to keep your arm at a right angle 'L' then grab it, two if needed.

Try and find a rhythm with them too.
For example, when you step with your left foot, place the right hand pole onto the ground so that you have two supports at any one time. Feels awkward at first but really works
This may be enough to prevent any real issues, the following day is almost flat all the way.

Hope this helps.

 

[sillydoll]

...... and the day after is the Alto del Perdon with a rocky, river boulder descent on the other side! Take two sticks for that one.
In 2009 we walked up the Alto del Perdon on our way to Pamplona from Lourdes. It was much easier going up than coming down!

 

[KiwiNomad06]

My advice: If it's been raining, Be Really Really Careful when you reach the concrete path at the entrance to Zubiri at the bottom of the hill! It was quite a tricky descent down to Zubiri on wet stones/rocks the day I was there. When I reached the concrete path I relaxed. Wrong :shock: Next minute, my usually-completely-reliable Vibram soles slipped from underneath me and I fell right onto my whole front. Nearly my Camino ending moment but I lived to tell the tale and next morning got up without even any bruising. It was one of the occasions I was thanking the Bishop in Le Puy for his blessing on my departure!
Margaret

 

[mspath]

I agree with Margaret that the final descent into Zubiri in wet weather can be slick and tricky. Of course it is impossible in snow. For safety you might consider walking down along the road after the Alto de Erro. If the weather is bad you might also stay for the night in Viskarret/Biskarreta. La Posada Nueva is one possibility. Their coordinates are tel.+34 948 76 01 73 laposadanueva.net.

Take care and Buen Camino!

MS Path

 

[tipperary]

Hi annelise,
Dont worry I walked this section two weeks ago,in good weather conditions and it will provide no difficulty to anyone with track walking experience. I first walked this section 5 years ago and the path has been transformed since then.In wet weather paths get slippery especially so if one is tired. So the main advice is to train and not to plan stages that are too long. The camino is a wonderful experience .
enjoy
justin

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I walked it in rain, wet autumn leaves, moss covered rocks, mud, and treadless boots. It was as treacherous as any stretch I have encountered. As mentioned above, trekking poles were the life-savers. A downed tree branch, even two of them, would not have been enough.

 

[nellpilgrim]

My concern (having studied the Brierley guide), is now how difficult the descents between Roncesvalles and Zubiri will be – my first day of walking. (And I have no ambition of breaking any records – but to just take my time).
)

Hi Annelise,
Actually I found the descents into Molinaseca and Cee much steeper and punishing on my knees. But like you we had read the description in Brierley and were very concerned about the final descent into Zubiri. We took a little siesta in the woods before heading down towards the town-that little rest and our walking poles meant we were able to negotiate the slope without any problems. I can imagine that one would want to be a bit careful if it were raining as the rock could be slippery.
I'm a bit of a worrier so no sooner would we overcome one 'issue' like Zubiri than I'd identify and focus on the next one ... Alto del Perdon, the approach into Burgos, the Meseta, Foncebadon, O'Cebriero, bedbugs etc etc ....but we got there in the end despite all my fussing!

 

[Catalinda]

Not to put you off the camino, but this was the worst day of my life. I thought several times "If this is what it's going to be like for the next 33 days, I'm going home" I hadn't reached my full camino mindset yet.
Like so many others it rained the whole day I did this stretch. The concrete path was quite treacherous in some spots (not quite as treacherous as the bici-grinos barreling down the hill behind me without warning, but that's for a different post) and the descent into Zubiri was very slippery, I got to town with some mud on my bottom from a minor slip that I didn't quite catch myself.
But this stretch taught me almost more than any other part of the camino. I was SO miserable. I was hot, wet, tired, exhausted, and homesick, I just wanted to sit down and cry. But I knew that if I sat down and cried, when I finished, I'd still have to get up and keep walking. So I cried while I walked (not big sobs, just "poor me" crying). But I learned just how strong I actually am. And what I am capable of. Then the dinner of stewed beef (I NEEDED red meat) and wine really recharged me at the end of the day.
For me this was the hardest day of the camino, but I wouldn't skip it for anything in the world.

 

[grayland]

For some reason I just can't see this as a big problem. I walked it in March both times and it was not raining...but just can't think of any problems we had in dry condition.
I don't usually use walking sticks.
I just looked at Brierley and the warning is very small..simply "descend steep rockoutcrop (dangerous in wet weather)...."
We did not stop in Zubiri and walked on to Larrasoana. This decision was regretted after we managed to get turned around and a little "lost" in the big ugly industrial/mining site a little past Zubiri.

 

[annelise]

A great thanks to you all for sound and helpful advice and for sharing your experiences – good or less happy. I am glad to say that it has helped reassure me and take the top off my apprehensions.

What I read is that I should

a) take the time necessary and not overtax myself on the first day of walking (good advice – and I have no ambitions – have a return ticket, start out 28 April – back home June 2, and whereever I will be on the camino when the time comes to return, I will go back home. In my mind, walking the camino is the goal in itself - no expectation of making it to Santiage in that time span – may then come back later);

b) use a walking pole (already bought one – hope one is enough? – or I might take up the suggestion to appropriate an additional one on the way out of Roncesvalles – and to also bring gaiters (on my list now); (and also train using the pole in the way so graphically described by gregdedman!)

c) consider the weather conditions – and if wet and slippery, options could be to take the road route from Alto de Erro into Zubiri or to make a break in Viskarret/Biskarreta – or in the worst case scenario take a bus (very reassuring to know that there are, in fact, options!)

And the suggestion from nellpilgrim to take a siesta along the stretch has a strong appeal

Again, thanks for this wonderful forum which has helped me tremendously in planning and also given me encouragement to walk on the camino.

Any other advice you might wish to give to a first-timer 65+ camino walker would be gladly welcomed.

Kindest,
Annelise

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Any other advice you might wish to give to a first-timer 65+ camino walker

Since you asked, and from a 65+ camino walker, two trekking poles, and start using them during your training walks. Watch videos available on the internet on their proper use. They give you balance, prevent falls, and reduce stress on your knees and ankles by up to 40%. The cartilage in your joints is not what it was when you were 20. The million steps you will take to Santiago will be repetitive stress like you have not experienced before. Give yourself a break by properly using trekking poles, and just one is not enough. This is part opinion, but mostly facts!

 

[grayland]

Any other advice you might wish to give to a first-timer 65+ Camino walker would be gladly welcomed.

From a 70+ Camino walker....don't let your age lower yoconfidencence level. Many of us are quite a bit older (or about the same age) and seem to much more likely to see it through than many of the younger Pilgrims. I was not in very fit condition on my first Camino and did a little last minute training that probably helped as I have never done any walking before.

Good luck....just let it happen. Don't worry about it and it will turn out fantastic.

 

[movinmaggie]

From a 70+ Camino walker....don't let your age lower yoconfidencence level. Many of us are quite a bit older (or about the same age) and seem to much more likely to see it through than many of the younger Pilgrims. I was not in very fit condition on my first Camino and did a little last minute training that probably helped as I have never done any walking before.

Good luck....just let it happen. Don't worry about it and it will turn out fantastic.

At almost 80 grayland, I'll remember your words as I start from St. Jean for my first Camino on Sept 25…..even though many don't believe my age, my body does remind me from time to time (usually during yoga) so easy does it. Hope to arrive in Santiago on my 80th:>)

 

[grayland]

Maggie,
We are very near the same age....If you are feeling fit you should have no more problems than those quite a bit younger. Many of them have a much worse time due to lack of fitness or physical problems. Age is a big factor only in that many people do not keep fit as they age.
Physical injuries or disabilities happen at every age.
As an encouragement, I have just returned from walking the Primitivo and then going to Porto and walking the coastal route of the Portugues.
I walked everyday with a group of 5 very fit 30 year olds from Germany, Ireland and Oz that I met on the route.
I had no problem in keeping up with them...except when the guys would race each other, at full speed, up the steep inclines with their packs on.
I did not participate. Walking up hills at any speed is not my favorite thing.
The point is that age alone is not a limiting factor. Go for it and forget your age and concentrate on your fitness.
Buen Camino

 

[movinmaggie]

Maggie,
We are very near the same age....If you are feeling fit you should have no more problems than those quite a bit younger. Many of them have a much worse time due to lack of fitness or physical problems. Age is a big factor only in that many people do not keep fit as they age.
Physical injuries or disabilities happen at every age.
As an encouragement, I have just returned from walking the Primitivo and then going to Porto and walking the coastal route of the Portugues.
I walked everyday with a group of 5 very fit 30 year olds from Germany, Ireland and Oz that I met on the route.
I had no problem in keeping up with them...except when the guys would race each other, at full speed, up the steep inclines with their packs on.
I did not participate. Walking up hills at any speed is not my favorite thing.
The point is that age alone is not a limiting factor. Go for it and forget your age and concentrate on your fitness.
Buen Camino

thanks grayland (Google's self-correct wants to call you grassland:>) …yes, if I thought age was a factor, I would not embark on the journey. I've been blessed with good health, but also work consistently at keeping it that way. Appreciate the thoughts.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Neither descent is what I'd call a "mountain descent," but rather a steep section of trail that can be dangerously slippery in the rain.
If it's not raining, as someone else said above, it's not that bad.

I would suggest you take the stretch from SJPP to Roncesvalles in TWO days, rather than one.
If it's too late to get lodging booked at Orisson, book two nights in SJPP.
Walk to Orisson, then walk or taxi back down.
Next morning, taxi to Orisson and continue up and over.

As far as Zubiri goes, the descent is (pardon my language) "slick as snot" if it's raining, so I suggest a walking stick.
However, if it's dry, I haven't had a problem.

Buen Camino!

 

[suzannejmartin]

In May of 2013 we walked into Zubiri in pouring rain. Were it not for trekking poles and extreme caution, I would have fallen. As others have advised, two poles are an absolute must. I am now 67 and will walk again in September. I keep in mind that my balance is not perfect, my feet and legs tire more quickly, and when the backpack is added, my center of gravity shifts, making it all a bit trickier. The good news is that age blesses us with patience and it comes in handy. (We walked out of Zubiri the next morning in damp clothes and falling snow. Wouldn't have missed it!)

Buen Camino Annelise!

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Thanks to all for your wonderful advice on this site (have now booked plane tickets).

My concern (having studied the Brierley guide), is now how difficult the descents between Roncesvalles and Zubiri will be – my first day of walking. (And I have no ambition of breaking any records – but to just take my time).

I am not in perfect shape for undertaking the camino, but I know that it is something I need to do.
Best, Annelise (Denmark)

Hi Annelise, you give already the answer yourself. Do it nice and easy and you will do fine. Wish you a great journey and a Buen Camino, Peter.

 

[Robo]

Does anyone have any links to photos or videos of the descent into Zubiri?

On my first Camino I took the road alternative. Next time I'm taking my wife and the road route will scare her to death Dodging the cars on the hairpins unnerved me a bit I have to say. I was almost like Tonto, ear to the ground (the air at least), before entering each hairpin

I'm thinking we'll take the direct route next time, but of course opinions vary as to the level of difficulty. She is not good on her feet, arthritis and other ailments, so I may need to assist her down.

As a Benchmark, because we all rate difficulty differently......

How would you rate the descent into Zubiri compared to:

1. Acebo to Molineseca. Hardest section of all for me! (Weather was dry)
2. Alto del Perdon down to Uterga. No real problem. Just be careful (Weather was dry)
3. Descent down from the Plateau above Castrojeriz. No problem at all (Weather was dry)

Your opinions most appreciated. Forewarned is forearmed

 

[SYates]

More or less like 2. It is quite short compared to 1. and a bit more difficult than 3. due to the large rocky slate patches. Buen Camino, SY

 

[VNwalking]

In terms of both difficulty and character:
A bit like 1 but as @SYates says, shorter. There are some gnarly patches of steep smooth rock, but provided it's dry the stretch is Ok if you take your time.
Much easier for me than the brutality of that rubble coming off the Alto de Perdon or before Acebo.
And lots harder than 3, which doesn't much register for me.

 

[Robo]

More or less like 2. It is quite short compared to 1. and a bit more difficult than 3. due to the large rocky slate patches. Buen Camino, SY

Many thanks SY. That helps put it in perspective.

 

[Robo]

In terms of both difficulty and character:
A bit like 1 but as @SYates says, shorter. There are some gnarly patches of steep smooth rock, but provided it's dry the stretch is Ok if you take your time.
Much easier for me than the brutality of that rubble coming off the Alto de Perdon or before Acebo.
And lots harder than 3, which doesn't much register for me.

Many thanks Viranani. Like you #3 didn't really register for me either. It was a 30-50 metres stretch of concrete?
Maybe in the wet it's tricky.....

 

[dougfitz]

@Robo, from my GPS track this year:

Descent into Zubiri - 4.73km 346m descent
Descent from Alto del Perdon 2.68km 271m descent
Descent from the top of the ridge before Acebo to where the road begins to climb again past Molinaseca - I stopped at Regio, but the totals for the descent are 13.4km and 1015m of descent. From Acebo to Molinaseca 7.95km 618m of descent.

As already mentioned, track surface is also a significant factor.

 

[jsalt]

Hi Robo, the descent into Zubiri is tricky because of the stone slabs . The path is in trees, no sun, so the slabs are slippery, whether it’s sunny or raining on the day you are there. To add insult to injury , the slabs are not placed horizontally, but on a downward slope . However, all is not lost ! I remember a well-worn path down the side of the slabs; easily negotiated if taken slowly and carefully. And an added bonus is, because you are on the narrow path in the mud at the side, you will not be taken out by the extreme cyclists whizzing past you .
Jill

 

[VNwalking]

@Robo--thanks to Doug, now you have real data, rather than the squishy impressionistic stuff.
How wonderful that Pat will be joining you this time! I don't know about her, but by way of reassurance: I have injury-induced arthritis in one foot and the other ankle. So I'm not as agile as I'd like to be, at all. So of course, poles! I couldn't have done without them, but on this stretch was fine with them.
(And if it's wet...for those of us with no pride there's always the option of sitting and sliding )

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Slippery when wet! Trekking poles are useful regardless of the condition of the path.