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Discrepancies on some stages -- Levante

peregrina2000

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I'm starting to dig into all I can find about the Levante, and see that there are some big discrepancies in distances in some stages. The Spanish guides all suggest 27 stages from Valencia to Zamora, while a lot of the advice I've seen in English (including from some people here) puts it at 32, without rest days. I've identified the big differences, and wonder if anyone can weigh in on whether it's better to break these stages into two or whether they are reasonably walked in a day.

Valencia - Algemesi (35) VS. Valencia - Silla (16) and Silla - Algemesi (22)

Almansa - Higueruela (35) vs. Almansa - Alpera (25) and Alpera - Higueruela (21)

Mora - Toledo (31) vs. Mora- Toledo (40)
(Kevin, if you read this, I know you said Mora-Toledo is perfectly do-able, so maybe the 31 is more accurate than the 40 I've seen elsewhere. Mora to Toledo is 36 by highway, so it's probably somewhere in between.)

Cebreros - Avila (36) vs. Cebreros - San Bartolome (15) and San Bartolome - Avila (26)

Thanks for any help you can give. Buen camino, Laurie
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
Hi Laurie,

I broke up the stage between Valencia and Algemesi by staying in Silla. This was to get myself acclimatised (I was also suffering with a bad stomach upset). This made for two comfortable days walking.

I walked the whole day from Almansa to Higueruela as I was getting in my stride and wanted a challenge. (Has anyone who walked this recently had trouble with signage once you have traversed the Sierra del Mugron and crossed the road? I ignored some non-yellow arrows pointing along the old railway track and got lost, adding an extra mile or so onto the route. It may just have been bad route-finding by me).

Mora to Toledo I would estimate to be about 40kms. I did wonder about taking a more direct route, but the one in the Spanish Guide is worth it - you get the full El Greco view of the city.

I'm just looking at the French Guide. This gives 33 stages from Valencia to Zamora, some of which are slightly different to the Spanish one. It says 36.5km from Mora to Toledo, but I think it just measures to the edge of towns and cities. It is possible that I have over-estimated the distances a bit, but it seems that everyone who has walked it says that the Spanish Guide consistently underestimates distance.

Andy
 
Hola

As I remember that first stage is flat, easy walking. I set out early and can't remember a problem from Valencia to Algemesi.

Like Andy I walked from Almansa to Higueruela in one day - I was unaware at the time of the diversion to an albergue around the half way mark. I set off at dawn and loved most of the route however the last (is it 11kms?) on the road into Higueruela in the baking heat of the late afternoon very uncomfortable - but doable.

I didn't keep accurate notes but I remember remarking that I arrived in Toledo at least an hour before I thought I would...therefore 35/36kms rather than 40.

John
 
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Thanks, amigos,
This is helpful as I go through that annual struggle about how many days to allow so I can set my return flight. How does this sound for a range:

Best case scenario: 47 days Valencia to Santiago; 4 days to Finisterre/Muxia
Fallback: 51 days Valencia to Santiago, forget Muxia.
Or something in between, which would give me a day or two at the Peaceable or something like that.
 
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Hi Laurie, Andy and Johnny, having just returned from a little pre-Christmas trip with Kari to Sevilla and Cordoba I saw your remarks and had to (of course) put my little bit in!!
Started in Valencia on April 10th and followed Andy's idea with Silla, although I had no stomach trouble, I just didn't want to walk 40+ first day.
With two rest days in Toledo and one rest day in Zamora and one day in Torrijos (meeting Kari in Madrid) we arrived in Astorga on May 18th and Santiago on May 29th. That would be 39 days minus 4 equals 35 days walking. Like Johnny and Andy I walked from Almansa to Hig. and from Mora to Toledo. But like both I didn't like the last 11k into Higueruela. Mora Toledo was a doddle and may well have been less than "advertised".
We also used two days from Arevalo to Medina, while most people use only one.
So your estimates and backups would be accurate Laurie and as you say you could perhaps check in at the Peacable Kingdom. Give them our best, if you get the chance. Lovely to "see" you all again!
Best,
Kari and Kevin
 
Sorry all, total miscalculation. Comes of writing and doing mental arithmetic at the same time.April 10th to May 29th is, of course, 49 days not 39, making the number of walking days 45.
Apologies to all,

Kevin
 
On that final straight and very quiet metalled road into Higueruela I fell asleep while walking several times. I remember a road sign which I think was warning of sheep on the road. It was very weathered and resembled a very strange monster. I was too tired to get my camera out, but that did keep me awake for a bit.

Andy
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Hi Laurie



For acc in Valencia (and elswhere in Spain) look at HostelBookers. com. I got a nice place in Valencia, central, good kitchen, free i/net etc etc. About 12euros.

The first couple of days out were not inspiring. I should have taken the local train and skipped these bits. Look at your maps etc and consider this.

Valencia is interesting - among the many sites to see, dont miss the astonishing main rail station.
 
Thanks for the additional suggestions. Andy, are you really saying that you were actually sleepwalking on the Camino?! And I'm not sure I know what you mean by a "quiet metalled road" --wouldn't a metal road be quite noisy?

I know that first part out of the city is likely to be uninspiring in some ways, but I will start at the Valencia cathedral anyway. (I'm assuming that's where the "official" starting point is?) One thing I have considered is that on my "getting over jet lag day", I might walk to Silla and then take the Cercanias back to Valencia for the afternoon and evening. Then the train out to Silla again the next day and from there to Algemesi. That would break up the first long stage as well as give me more time in Valencia. Looks like Valencia to Silla is under 15 km, and I always find that spending lots of time outdoors after a transatlantic flight does wonders for my body clock.

Thanks for the hostelbookers website as well.

So, Kevin, were you in Granada and Cordoba to sout out the Mozarabe for a future walk?

Buen camino, Laurie
 
peregrina2000 said:
Thanks for the additional suggestions. Andy, are you really saying that you were actually sleepwalking on the Camino?! And I'm not sure I know what you mean by a "quiet metalled road" --wouldn't a metal road be quite noisy?

I know that first part out of the city is likely to be uninspiring in some ways, but I will start at the Valencia cathedral anyway. (I'm assuming that's where the "official" starting point is?) One thing I have considered is that on my "getting over jet lag day", I might walk to Silla and then take the Cercanias back to Valencia for the afternoon and evening. Then the train out to Silla again the next day and from there to Algemesi. That would break up the first long stage as well as give me more time in Valencia. Looks like Valencia to Silla is under 15 km, and I always find that spending lots of time outdoors after a transatlantic flight does wonders for my body clock.

Thanks for the hostelbookers website as well.

So, Kevin, were you in Granada and Cordoba to sout out the Mozarabe for a future walk?

Buen camino, Laurie

Yes the route starts at the Cathedral which has a lovely sello.

"metalled" road is a quaint phrase the English use for what is usually a regular road surface:

"The term road metal refers to the broken stone or cinders used in the construction or repair of roads or railways,[1] and is derived from the Latin metallum, which means both "mine" and "quarry".[2] Metalling is known to have been used extensively in the construction of roads by soldiers of the Roman Empire (see Roman road) but a limestone-surfaced road, thought to date back to the Bronze Age, has been found in Britain.[3] Metalling has had two distinct usages in road surfacing. The term originally referred to the process of creating a gravel roadway. The route of the roadway would first be dug down several feet and, depending on local conditions, French drains may or may not have been added. Next, large stones were placed and compacted, followed by successive layers of smaller stones, until the road surface was composed of small stones compacted into a hard, durable surface. "Road metal" later became the name of stone chippings mixed with tar to form the road surfacing material tarmac. A road of such material is called a "metalled road" in Britain, a "paved road" in Canada and the USA, or a "sealed road" in Australia and New Zealand.[4]"

Just wait until we tell you about the Tar Macadam roads!
 
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Thanks for translating, John!

And yes, I do fall asleep while walking. It tends to be when I'm walking alone, when I've done over 20 miles, and when the path or road is straight and quiet. I realise I've been sleeping when my head suddenly bobs up. Anyone else experience this?

Andy
 
Haha Andy, Here's me laughing long and loud at your comments! Fantastic with the explanation about "metallum" which I was astonished to remember from fourth form Latin but never made the connection to the British use of "metal road", first encountered I might add in a Victorian guide book to India!! I must say I don't quite "sleep" on a long hard road in the late afternoon but I have caught myself dreaming a couple of times!!
Laurie, I think you may be slightly telepathic or we have known each other for a long time!
Yes, we were "looking" at the Mozarabe on the side while soaking up some sun and culture in Anadalucia. It gave us a wee tug at the heart strings to see the "concha" and yellow arrows in Cordoba. Might try a start from Granada to Merida next year with report forthcoming afterwards. I totally recommend the idea with the Cercanias from Silla in the evening and back again in the morning with an extra night in Valencia, and would have done it myself if I had known. We did that to avoid staying in Tres Cantos on the Madrid and were rewarded with two lovely evenings around the Plaza Mayor. As Andy says, the first arrow in Valencia is on your right with your back to the cathedral steps.
Buen Camino para todos
Kari and Kevin
 
andy.d said:
Thanks for translating, John!

And yes, I do fall asleep while walking. It tends to be when I'm walking alone, when I've done over 20 miles, and when the path or road is straight and quiet. I realise I've been sleeping when my head suddenly bobs up. Anyone else experience this?

Andy

I haven't myself - but it confirms my view that pilgrimage, if we're lucky, is a walking meditation and in meditation we sometimes fall asleep, and that's no bad thing. Such meditation is nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with being human.

I guess that it's tiredness after 20 miles, which lets the unconscious mind take prominence, if one is alone. As I say, I haven't fallen asleep, but I have sometimes entered a state of absence of thought (I don't know how else to say it) which sidesteps perceived time - it walks beside it. The repetitive rhythmic crunch of boots and regular tap of staff, hour after hour, aids this state, I guess. If I were you, I would treasure this condition you describe; I don't think it's sleep.

Caminos such as the Levante, Via de la Plata, the Madrid, and some French ways, encourage this state of the subconscious, the essentially human. I'm sure other ways do too, tho' often the Francés can't offer this context now, as it is so crowded. I also guess this is why the Via de la Plata is becoming more popular -something which is both positive and negative. People instinctively (subconsciously?) look for a way which offers a distance or separation from the normal, and which needs a solitary context to enable this.
 
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Thanks!

I wrote some reflections on walking and praying on the Levante here (if anyone is interested!):

http://pilgrimpace.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... praying-2/

as you say, there is definitely something about the conscious mind shutting off - and La Mancha with its unremitting flatness and straight lines was very important for this.

Andy
 
andy.d said:
Thanks!

I wrote some reflections on walking and praying on the Levante here (if anyone is interested!):

http://pilgrimpace.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... praying-2/

as you say, there is definitely something about the conscious mind shutting off - and La Mancha with its unremitting flatness and straight lines was very important for this.

Andy

Thank you for the link - I don't know how I missed it previously. I have some reading to do. :D

You approach a camino from a religious point of view and I approach it from a humanist point of view - and yet we have used a similar phrase - "stepping aside". Hmmm!

You also say that "walking became the prayer". I don't use the word "prayer", but in essence we may have reached similar findings. Hmmm!

As a winter walker on a route which is long, long, long I have remembered you each night. I wish you well on the kilometres to come.

For what it's worth, my projected thoughts also go to those now on a camino like Andy's, and to the others out on the road, those other viajeros, whose camino is homelessness.
 
Indeed! and the common ground and way is so important and interesting.

Best wishes to you too - and to all on the way, and as you say, especially to those who have nowhere to lay their heads.

Andy
 
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