Does having a half-full pack affect the weight distribution in a pack?

[Rhun Leeding]

Hi guys,

Apologize if this has been asked before, but despite searching I've not come across the answer elsewhere.

I currently have a 70l pack that is comfortable and relatively light. However, the equipment I would take would fill less than half of it. My question is that if this is comfortable and not adding too much extra weight, is it worth investing in a smaller pack? Does having a half-filled pack affect weight distribution or lead to the weight affecting the wrong part of the body?

I've got plenty of time for testing out the existing pack over the summer, but I know there's plenty of more experienced folk around here too!

 

[JohnMcM]

Hi guys,

Apologize if this has been asked before, but despite searching I've not come across the answer elsewhere.

I've got plenty of time for testing out the existing pack over the summer, but I know there's plenty of more experienced folk around here too!

My tuppence worth is,,,,,

If the pack is light, you are happy to wear it and it is comfortable, why change it?

Remembering not to put your heaviest items highest in your pack, should, by all accounts prevent any back or other problems.

Stick with what you know works for you might be appropriate in this case.

Buen (correct-pack wearing) Camino

Edited to insert missing word ..................... "not"

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Hi, Rhun...

Bottom line: No. Center of gravity and weight distribution are not affected by low volume loads. The method of packing and arranging the contents of the pack are what affect those issues. There is no reason at all, other than perhaps saving significant weight, to purchase a new pack simply to accommodate a small volume load.

 

[amancio]

I would feel very uncomfortable with something like that, but then again I walk with sandals and know lots of people who would not enjoy that, so it is up to you!

 

[tomnorth]

My biggest concern in taking a backpack that is much larger than necessary would be that there’d be a temptation to fill all that extra space. I like having the constraint of only being able to fit so much in my 36l pack. I pack the things I might need during the day at the top, so there’s no need to go digging deep down into the pack. But certainly, if you’re good about not overpacking or expanding what you’re carrying to fill the available space, then there is no absolute need to get a smaller pack.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

Hi, Rhun...

Bottom line: No. Center of gravity and weight distribution are not affected by low volume loads. The method of packing and arranging the contents of the pack are what affect those issues. There is no reason at all, other than perhaps saving significant weight, to purchase a new pack simply to accommodate a small volume load.

Hey Dave - I think I'd disagree in this case. A large bag would have the majority of contents at the bottom and further away from the body whereas a smaller bag would hold the items closer to the body and higher up. This would change the COG/weight distribution for sure. Unless the large bag had internal compression straps that held all gear close to the spine vertically in the pack a smaller bag, tighter to the body will be more stable, balanced and secure. Is that imperative on the Camino? Probably not, more of a technical climbing consideration I imagine.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Hey Dave - I think I'd disagree in this case. A large bag would have the majority of contents at the bottom and further away from the body whereas a smaller bag would hold the items closer to the body and higher up. This would change the COG/weight distribution for sure. Unless the large bag had internal compression straps that held all gear close to the spine vertically in the pack a smaller bag, tighter to the body will be more stable, balanced and secure. Is that imperative on the Camino? Probably not, more of a technical climbing consideration I imagine.

That is a good and logical supposition, Joe In practice, though, that isn't the case with just some basic guidelines and experience.

For low volume loads, the center of gravity isn't affected by the height of the load due to the lighter weight. And packing will allow the load to be held in compact fashion to keep the load from shifting. It must also be kept in mind that a half-filled bag still allows for heavier items to be placed mid-bag.

When I would shuttle loads between staged camps on mountaineering expeditions, it often involved hauling huge weights from the lower to an upper camp, then bringing a smaller load down. Believe me, with having to use ice axes and crampons the last thing we would allow to happen is a pack that could throw us off balance.

In heavy loads, the placement of the load so that heavier items sit from near the center of the pack affect not only center of gravity, but also comfort.

Also, you mentioned compression straps. That is also an option to help manage a small load. Many larger packs incorporate external compression straps for just such a purpose. If I use them, it is usually to form a smaller profile to an underfilled pack bag.

 

[kelleymac]

My tuppence worth is,,,,,

If the pack is light, you are happy to wear it and it is comfortable, why change it?

Remembering to put your heaviest items highest in your pack, should, by all accounts prevent any back or other problems.

Stick with what you know works for you might be appropriate in this case.

Buen (correct-pack wearing) Camino

I thought the heavier things should go in the middle of the pack, not the top. ?

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I thought the heavier things should go in the middle of the pack, not the top. ?

That's correct. It helps things from becoming too top-heavy. You understand the importance if you ever bend down a bit with a full backpack on .

 

[trecile]

but then again I walk with sandals

And apparently a huuuuuge bottle of wine!

 

[Deleted member 43985]

That is a good and logical supposition, Joe In practice, though, that isn't the case with just some basic guidelines and experience.

For low volume loads, the center of gravity isn't affected by the height of the load due to the lighter weight. And packing will allow the load to be held in compact fashion to keep the load from shifting. It must also be kept in mind that a half-filled bag still allows for heavier items to be placed mid-bag.

Sorry to still disagree Dave but over 800kms, carrying 5-10% of your body weight in a back pack that has a lower COG and a COM that is further away from the body will have an effect. It may be possible to use compression straps to bring all the internal mass closer to the body and higher however my belief is that it isn't practical and most people. I believe that a (mostly) full 35L pack is going to be allow better weight distribution (heavy items up close to shoulder blades), better posture and less repetitive strain than a half-full 70L. Right tool for the right job

 

[Hiawatha]

One huge advantage of a smaller pack is that you can often carry them on board an aeroplane as cabin luggage . Having done this once and reaped the benefits of a smooth, fast and anxiety free disembarkation it would be an unusual circumstance that would make me want to check my pack into the hold again .

 

[kelleymac]

That's correct. It helps things from becoming too top-heavy. You understand the importance if you ever bend down a bit with a full backpack on .

At the end of our Camino, my son packed the top of my pack with a lot of cheese and chocolate. I picked up my pack and swung it on, and said "This is too heavy." He said "Mom, the train station is less than a km away. " Right. So-- I walked. And my knees hurt for 6 weeks afterwards.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I appreciate your point of view, Joe, but I carried my 65 liter pack with it being less than one third full twice (at around 9.5 pounds) on Camino; once from SJPdP to Burgos, and then again from SJPdP to Santiago -- and all was good. This is the same one that I used on a thru hike of the Colorado Trail with full loads for 7 - 10 days between re-supply points. I also do the same with it on short backpacking trips for a weekend. The same experience holds true with a lot of backpackers who will use their large capacity packs for short overnight trips as well as weeks long trips under full loads because they do not want or need more than one backpack.

The genuine issues you are concerned with, which are a good idea to avoid, simply do not occur just because there is a small load in a large pack. I've not seen this as a causal relationship in all of my decades of experience. Additionally, in packs with proper shoulder harnesses and hipbelt systems, there is less of a concern about load placement than in the old days of external framed 'Camp Trails' style packs.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

One huge advantage of a smaller pack is that you can often carry them on board an aeroplane as cabin luggage . Having done this once and reaped the benefits of a smooth, fast and anxiety free disembarkation it would be an unusual circumstance that would make me want to check my pack into the hold again .

You are so right about the desirability of being able to carry on one's backpack It depends on the backpack's design to a large extent as to a bags capacity vs carry on suitability. For example, my 65 liter Gossamer Gear Mariposa, and my ULA Circuit (68 liters) both meet the carry on dimensions and I've used them a lot as carry ons.

 

[cchapin]

I guess I would want to know how much the 70L pack weighed. In my experience, packs of that size are often built with a substantial suspension system to allow carrying heavier loads. Those features also often come with a substantial weight penalty, If you can save a couple of lbs by using a smaller and even lighter pack, more suited to your expected load, I would be inclined to go that route since you will be covering so many miles over several weeks.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I guess I would want to know how much the 70L pack weighed. In my experience, packs of that size are often built with a substantial suspension system to allow carrying heavier loads. Those features also often come with a substantial weight penalty, If you can save a couple of lbs by using a smaller and even lighter pack, more suited to your expected load, I would be inclined to go that route since you will be covering so many miles over several weeks.

Well, it varies quite a bit. The large Mystery Ranch backpacks of that size are over 7 pounds empty. That same pack volume with a ULA Catalyst will be around 2.8 pounds. Both with similar weight carrying capacities.

Much of that comes from the design and build philosophy of the manufacturer. For example, Mystery Ranch really overbuilds their packs using far heavier materials and hardware that are at least two generations behind the latest techniques used by the newer Cottage Manufacturers of backpacking gear. While Mystery Ranch prefers to use a heavy duty cordura nylon fabric, ULA uses a Dyneema which is also strong and durable but is less than 1/4 of the weight per yard (maybe less).

Then we get into more exotic 'fabrics' like Cuben Fiber, used by a few companies like Zpacks, which reduce the weight by 50% over from the ULA pack.

My Gossamer Gear Mariposa which is 65 liters weighs just under 2 pounds, yet my Osprey Stratos 24, a much smaller pack loadwise, weighs about 2.75 pounds. It points out that smaller doesn't necessarily equal lighter.

 

[Northern Laurie]

I used a 68l pack with exterior compression straps and one inadvertently genius move: a travel cube

I was worried about load distribution, so I bought a light weight packing cube about 4”x12”x16” (100mm x 300mm x 400mm). All my clothes went inside.

It made packing and unpacking a breeze- I could arrive, pull my clothes bag out and had a convenient case that was easy to see into. Stuff sacks or satchels would work as well but the shape of the travel cube worked inside my backpack really well and it was easier to find things at the end of the day.

There is a weight penalty, but I appreciated the extra support and adjustability and the weight difference wasn’t that great.

 

[JohnMcM]

I thought the heavier things should go in the middle of the pack, not the top. ?

Oooops! My mistake. My post now edited to insert missing word. Thanks.

 

[amancio]

And apparently a huuuuuge bottle of wine!

hahaha!!! well, I did not know it would look like that when I took the photo myself, I take selfies with the normal lense in the mobile, I never know what will come out; it is great, you some times find these surprises (Villafranca de los Barros, VdlP)

 

[Rhun Leeding]

I really appreciate your input guys....also thanks for the tips around distributing the heavier items. In the past, I just put what I needed on top, and the dry clothes and sleeping bag at the bottom!

I think the answer for me will be a little bit of trial and error over the spring and summer to see how the pack goes with a half load, and if its comfortable I'll stick with it. If not, then I can always invest in a new one if needed.

At the end of our Camino, my son packed the top of my pack with a lot of cheese and chocolate. I picked up my pack and swung it on, and said "This is too heavy." He said "Mom, the train station is less than a km away. " Right. So-- I walked. And my knees hurt for 6 weeks afterwards.

I like the approach....maybe I'll ditch clothes and the other stuff, and just roll down the camino with a pack of cheese and chocolate!

 

[lt56ny]

Hi, Rhun...

Bottom line: No. Center of gravity and weight distribution are not affected by low volume loads. The method of packing and arranging the contents of the pack are what affect those issues. There is no reason at all, other than perhaps saving significant weight, to purchase a new pack simply to accommodate a small volume load.

Always listen to DAVE. He always knows what is best for his Camino children!

 

[MaineSally]

I appreciate your point of view, Joe, but I carried my 65 liter pack with it being less than one third full twice (at around 9.5 pounds) on Camino; once from SJPdP to Burgos, and then again from SJPdP to Santiago -- and all was good. This is the same one that I used on a thru hike of the Colorado Trail with full loads for 7 - 10 days between re-supply points. I also do the same with it on short backpacking trips for a weekend. The same experience holds true with a lot of backpackers who will use their large capacity packs for short overnight trips as well as weeks long trips under full loads because they do not want or need more than one backpack.

The genuine issues you are concerned with, which are a good idea to avoid, simply do not occur just because there is a small load in a large pack. I've not seen this as a causal relationship in all of my decades of experience. Additionally, in packs with proper shoulder harnesses and hipbelt systems, there is less of a concern about load placement than in the old days of external framed 'Camp Trails' style packs.

Good grief DaveBugg, have you been on "clothing optional caminos"? Would you please share what you would pack from SJPDP to Santiago to have a backpack weigh in at 9.5 pounds. I am obviously making some poor choices. I didn't even carry a sleeping bag!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I walked the camino with a 70 l. pack and a heavy load (don't ask, it's beside the point.) I can't remember ever thinking the load was too much because the design of the pack and its hip-belt was so good. The pack has a flap that can form a horizontal internal panel to help with load distribution. I've used the pack for day hikes.

Money spent on a smaller pack could pay over a number of flights though if it can be a carry-on instead of extra cost checked baggage.

 

[josephmcclain]

That is a good and logical supposition, Joe In practice, though, that isn't the case with just some basic guidelines and experience.

For low volume loads, the center of gravity isn't affected by the height of the load due to the lighter weight. And packing will allow the load to be held in compact fashion to keep the load from shifting. It must also be kept in mind that a half-filled bag still allows for heavier items to be placed mid-bag.

When I would shuttle loads between staged camps on mountaineering expeditions, it often involved hauling huge weights from the lower to an upper camp, then bringing a smaller load down. Believe me, with having to use ice axes and crampons the last thing we would allow to happen is a pack that could throw us off balance.

In heavy loads, the placement of the load so that heavier items sit from near the center of the pack affect not only center of gravity, but also comfort.

Also, you mentioned compression straps. That is also an option to help manage a small load. Many larger packs incorporate external compression straps for just such a purpose. If I use them, it is usually to form a smaller profile to an underfilled pack bag.

VERY INTERESTING...I was just going to write that it did matter having a half empty backpack because of weight distribution. Would be really interested in your thoughts on the situation that I encountered. If you have time to respond! Last year, well 2017, I used a 55 liter Osprey Kestrel pack and by the time I got it to the weight I wanted (on the second week of the Frances) I felt everything was riding too low and being uncomfortable. I began to devise ways to get the weight up, as in inflating some plastic ziplocks and putting them at the bottom. I loved the way that felt. For about an hour. Then they would slowly deflate and the stuff would sink. I began then wondering if I could find inflatable beach balls in some village that wouldn´t deflate. Surprise. Didn´t find any. But returned determined to buy a smaller pack. What do you think was going on here? By that time I had become pretty versed in using all the straps to adjust the weight, but I sure didn´t like the weight hanging low in the pack. Need to figure this out since I am setting out on the Primitivo beginning of May. Appreciate your good advice.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I began to devise ways to get the weight up, as in inflating some plastic ziplocks and putting them at the bottom. I loved the way that felt. For about an hour. Then they would slowly deflate and the stuff would sink.

Some empty capped water bottles might have done the trick.

 

[backpack45scb]

Rhun, there is a lot of good info in the replies. One question you did not answer was what is the empty weight of your 70L pack? There is no need to use a pack much over 2 lbs. If your pack is 7 lbs for example, the burden of carrying that extra 5 lbs is greater than anything you might do in terms of load distribution.

I have about the same collection of packs as davebugg. I've been experimenting with this exact problem. My Zpacks was about half full with 15 lbs, and I could the weight sitting on my tailbone. I cinched up the pack compression cords until the load was a vertical column to the top of my pack. It fitted nicely against my back after that adjustment, and was more comfortable hiking.

 

[J F Gregory]

I use a base weight for either one of my packs. 1 is 48 liter and the other is 36 liter. My larger pack weighs 4.2 lbs. and the smaller is 2 lbs. In either one I carry the same thing weighing 6.75 lbs. for personal items like clothing, hygiene items and sleep sack not including water and snacks. The extra weight on the 48 liter pack 2.2 lbs. gets in my way so I only use this pack camping.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Good grief DaveBugg, have you been on "clothing optional caminos"? Would you please share what you would pack from SJPDP to Santiago to have a backpack weigh in at 9.5 pounds. I am obviously making some poor choices. I didn't even carry a sleeping bag!

Hi, Sally....

I doubt if it is an issue of poor choices at all In previous threads I have mentioned that gear and clothing choices are mostly affected by frequency of use and purpose. Sort of an algorithm of decision making which includes a Dollar/Euro/Currency per mile/Km ratio. If one is only going to walk. For example, if one is only looking to walk Camino, which for the Frances is about 800 Km/500 miles, would one spend the same amount of money purchasing ultralight gear as someone like myself who backpacks many hundreds of miles throughout every year?

Realistically, the trade-off of expense vs weight is a real concern to most heading out on Camino, who will decide that budgets favor saving money.

For gear choices, it is a matter of knowledge. I am very familiar with most gear offerings by a large number of manufacturers. Some of that is because i am hired to test backpacking gear and clothing. Some of that is because I have been backpacking and mountaineering for decades and have a lot of practical experience.

A person who is deciding to walk a Camino, but who has never been backpacking before is faced with not only trying to figure out what s/he needs clothing and equipment wise, but has no real knowledge of the breadth and depth of clothing and gear options. They will be struggling to make decisions on a backpack, for example, without having ever worn a backpack for a multiday walk. They do not know what will work for themselves. Most of what will inform their decisions are what other Forum members say worked well for them, not practical and hand's on experience with a broad range of manufacturers and models.

So if those of us who have a broad experiential range of knowledge from the outdoors and backpacking voice an opinion as to an ultra lightweight choice of a backpack, which is not a well known brand, it is a small voice among many.

The other factor is that if a large number of folks have a positive experience with a backpack, but that specific backpack is heavier than a less well known model which performs just as well but which they have not tried, then a recommendation will be limited in scope. That does not mean that the backpack recommended is bad, it only means that the knowledge that an equivalent lighter choice is available is missing. The same analogy applies to clothing, sleeping gear, etc.

As a practical application of the above, someone like myself will have the same type of gear as a less experienced walker, but because of my experience my gear will weigh less by 50%, or more.

In summary, someone having a backpack load which weighs more than my pack is less about 'bad' choices, but about knowledge and budget. And keep in mind that my pack load will weigh more if I decide that I want to add other items based on need or want.

As an example, this last September on my second Camino, I had decided to do a full step-by-step video recording of my walk over the Napoleon Route fro SJPdP to Roncesvalles. To do that 10+ hours of continuous recording added nearly 5 pounds to my normal 9.5 pounds. After Roncesvalles, though, I mailed home my video gear so that I went back to my normal load.

But choices of gear, what one decides is a necessity, packing for fear, etc, all affect how heavy one's pack will be. Because of my experience, I am confident that I can face most walking related issue regarding weather, injury, comfort level, etc with much less than those with less experience.

Experience leads to knowledge, leads to confidence, leads to needing less. Keep this in mind when looking at my packing list Also, I dropped the Xero sandals from this list and replaced them with a homemade 1.5 ounce pair of shower shoes. Adding a liter of water to the pack adds about 2 pounds; so minus 9.5 ounces from the list, and then add 2 pounds.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

VERY INTERESTING...I was just going to write that it did matter having a half empty backpack because of weight distribution. Would be really interested in your thoughts on the situation that I encountered. If you have time to respond! Last year, well 2017, I used a 55 liter Osprey Kestrel pack and by the time I got it to the weight I wanted (on the second week of the Frances) I felt everything was riding too low and being uncomfortable. I began to devise ways to get the weight up, as in inflating some plastic ziplocks and putting them at the bottom. I loved the way that felt. For about an hour. Then they would slowly deflate and the stuff would sink. I began then wondering if I could find inflatable beach balls in some village that wouldn´t deflate. Surprise. Didn´t find any. But returned determined to buy a smaller pack. What do you think was going on here? By that time I had become pretty versed in using all the straps to adjust the weight, but I sure didn´t like the weight hanging low in the pack. Need to figure this out since I am setting out on the Primitivo beginning of May. Appreciate your good advice.

Some packs are better than others at keeping the pack bag from sinking below the top of the hipbelt. A pack suspension that allows the bag to droop in this manner will cause the type of issue that you describe, and exactly what Joe was talking about.

Solving that issue in a 'sloppy bag' is usually a simple modification if the pack does not have external compression straps. Apply a strap to each side of the bag on any convenient attachment external to the hipbelt or to the bottom fastener of the bag's closure system. Loop the top of the extra strap (or it could be some sort of cordage) up to the top buckle of the closure system or to any tie off's or external loops on the upper bag. Apply tension so that the droopy bottom lifts above the top of the hipbelt.

There have been a few packs which I have done this to and it works well. It saves the cost of a new pack.

A lot of large backpacks have stiff enough suspension systems which do not require any mods. The same with large packs which have external compression straps

 

[Gary Martin]

I find this is a very interesting thread. I’ve been carrying stuff in a pack in the woods since the early 60s. My personal preference for weight distribution Is to try to put heavy stuff as close to my back as possible. I like the load in the top half of the pack on trails where I can walk upright. If climbing, working, or maneuvering in brush it might be necessary to move the weight down for stability.
I really like walking on the Camino. No need to carry firefighting tools, food and shelter for a week, or those pesky US national park permits that require you to guess where you intend to sleep for your entire trip. Not to mention the beautiful people and interesting food and the wonderful custom of just putting a bottle of pretty good wine (cork red on both ends) right beside your plate.
I hope you all find a way to travel with the light comfortable load, both on your back and in your mind.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Does having a half-filled pack affect weight distribution ... ?

Short answer is, yes it does.

But one needn't imagine exaggerated negative effects, and you'll find the extra space useful at times for carrying food & water. I'd actually recommend NOT having a pack without empty space, for those and other purposes.

70L does sound a bit large, though there's nothing against it as such.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Experience leads to knowledge, leads to confidence, leads to needing less. Keep this in mind when looking at my packing list

Dave, your packing list doesn't include something useless taken along just for fun -- it should be listed under "essentials".

Also, I see no mention of your scallop shell -- shame !!

 

[JabbaPapa]

I thought the heavier things should go in the middle of the pack, not the top. ?

I find that a roughly even distribution is best, but yeah, if I'm carrying a heavy book (and I will be this time), it'll be carried in the middle.

 

[Rhun Leeding]

Rhun, there is a lot of good info in the replies. One question you did not answer was what is the empty weight of your 70L pack? There is no need to use a pack much over 2 lbs. If your pack is 7 lbs for example, the burden of carrying that extra 5 lbs is greater than anything you might do in terms of load distribution.

I have about the same collection of packs as davebugg. I've been experimenting with this exact problem. My Zpacks was about half full with 15 lbs, and I could the weight sitting on my tailbone. I cinched up the pack compression cords until the load was a vertical column to the top of my pack. It fitted nicely against my back after that adjustment, and was more comfortable hiking.

Sorry for my delayed response - I've been trying to find specs of the bag online and I don't actually own a pair of scales. My current pack comes in at 5lbs empty, but maybe my view of it as 'relatively light' is that I had a Karrimor one before that for over a decade, and that weighed a whole lot more. It has since been retired to the kit cupboard in the sky, but I'd guess that was 8 or 9 lbs.

 

[josephmcclain]

That is a good and logical supposition, Joe In practice, though, that isn't the case with just some basic guidelines and experience.

For low volume loads, the center of gravity isn't affected by the height of the load due to the lighter weight. And packing will allow the load to be held in compact fashion to keep the load from shifting. It must also be kept in mind that a half-filled bag still allows for heavier items to be placed mid-bag.

When I would shuttle loads between staged camps on mountaineering expeditions, it often involved hauling huge weights from the lower to an upper camp, then bringing a smaller load down. Believe me, with having to use ice axes and crampons the last thing we would allow to happen is a pack that could throw us off balance.

In heavy loads, the placement of the load so that heavier items sit from near the center of the pack affect not only center of gravity, but also comfort.

Also, you mentioned compression straps. That is also an option to help manage a small load. Many larger packs incorporate external compression straps for just such a purpose. If I use them, it is usually to form a smaller profile to an underfilled pack bag.

Some packs are better than others at keeping the pack bag from sinking below the top of the hipbelt. A pack suspension that allows the bag to droop in this manner will cause the type of issue that you describe, and exactly what Joe was talking about.

Solving that issue in a 'sloppy bag' is usually a simple modification if the pack does not have external compression straps. Apply a strap to each side of the bag on any convenient attachment external to the hipbelt or to the bottom fastener of the bag's closure system. Loop the top of the extra strap (or it could be some sort of cordage) up to the top buckle of the closure system or to any tie off's or external loops on the upper bag. Apply tension so that the droopy bottom lifts above the top of the hipbelt.

There have been a few packs which I have done this to and it works well. It saves the cost of a new pack.

A lot of large backpacks have stiff enough suspension systems which do not require any mods. The same with large packs which have external compression straps

Thanks. Will try this idea! My carrying weight will certainly be below the capacity of my bag! Am determined this time to be more economical with it all. I nearly killed myself the first time crossing the Pyrenees with way too much weight. Started giving stuff away immediately

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

It occurred to me this afternoon that a reason to bring a pack larger than required is if you are walking with someone. In case of injury weight can be transferred to the larger pack. At least for the day. After that most of the gear could be shipped day-by-day with a transport service in the large pack and the small pack could be carried with just the items needed for the day.

 

[Deputy Dan]

On my first Camino excursion (of only a week) the dry carry weight of my 38L pack was a bit under 25 pounds (What can I say? I was a Boy Scout and I wanted to Be Prepared for anything!). While I love the suspension system of that pack, empty it weights over 8 pounds and while 25 pounds never seemed bad on my single-day training walks it was just too much for a week or more.

All this to say that I've traded up to a 47L pack - also with a suspension system I love - but this pack weighs just under 3 pounds empty and I've got my dry carry weight down to just under 12 pounds. So, far less "stuff" in more space but I've got plenty of ways to balance out the load in the pack. Having said that, as long as the weight is all on my hips and I keep the pack reasonably close to my back, it hasn't yet (again- training walks!) seemed to matter much where the heavier stuff is in the pack.

I've used Dave's list as a packing and gear acquisition guide, though I often struggle to find gear in his weights but my size (XL!

 

[MaineSally]

Hi, Sally....

I doubt if it is an issue of poor choices at all In previous threads I have mentioned that gear and clothing choices are mostly affected by frequency of use and purpose. Sort of an algorithm of decision making which includes a Dollar/Euro/Currency per mile/Km ratio. If one is only going to walk. For example, if one is only looking to walk Camino, which for the Frances is about 800 Km/500 miles, would one spend the same amount of money purchasing ultralight gear as someone like myself who backpacks many hundreds of miles throughout every year?

Realistically, the trade-off of expense vs weight is a real concern to most heading out on Camino, who will decide that budgets favor saving money.

For gear choices, it is a matter of knowledge. I am very familiar with most gear offerings by a large number of manufacturers. Some of that is because i am hired to test backpacking gear and clothing. Some of that is because I have been backpacking and mountaineering for decades and have a lot of practical experience.

A person who is deciding to walk a Camino, but who has never been backpacking before is faced with not only trying to figure out what s/he needs clothing and equipment wise, but has no real knowledge of the breadth and depth of clothing and gear options. They will be struggling to make decisions on a backpack, for example, without having ever worn a backpack for a multiday walk. They do not know what will work for themselves. Most of what will inform their decisions are what other Forum members say worked well for them, not practical and hand's on experience with a broad range of manufacturers and models.

So if those of us who have a broad experiential range of knowledge from the outdoors and backpacking voice an opinion as to an ultra lightweight choice of a backpack, which is not a well known brand, it is a small voice among many.

The other factor is that if a large number of folks have a positive experience with a backpack, but that specific backpack is heavier than a less well known model which performs just as well but which they have not tried, then a recommendation will be limited in scope. That does not mean that the backpack recommended is bad, it only means that the knowledge that an equivalent lighter choice is available is missing. The same analogy applies to clothing, sleeping gear, etc.

As a practical application of the above, someone like myself will have the same type of gear as a less experienced walker, but because of my experience my gear will weigh less by 50%, or more.

In summary, someone having a backpack load which weighs more than my pack is less about 'bad' choices, but about knowledge and budget. And keep in mind that my pack load will weigh more if I decide that I want to add other items based on need or want.

As an example, this last September on my second Camino, I had decided to do a full step-by-step video recording of my walk over the Napoleon Route fro SJPdP to Roncesvalles. To do that 10+ hours of continuous recording added nearly 5 pounds to my normal 9.5 pounds. After Roncesvalles, though, I mailed home my video gear so that I went back to my normal load.

But choices of gear, what one decides is a necessity, packing for fear, etc, all affect how heavy one's pack will be. Because of my experience, I am confident that I can face most walking related issue regarding weather, injury, comfort level, etc with much less than those with less experience.

Experience leads to knowledge, leads to confidence, leads to needing less. Keep this in mind when looking at my packing list Also, I dropped the Xero sandals from this list and replaced them with a homemade 1.5 ounce pair of shower shoes. Adding a liter of water to the pack adds about 2 pounds; so minus 9.5 ounces from the list, and then add 2 pounds.

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Dave:

Many thanks for your thoughtful and comprehensive reply...you know no other way. I have shaved off close to five pounds with better choices. Lighter weight clothes. As your tag says, "You do have our backs...always!"

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Dave:

Many thanks for your thoughtful and comprehensive reply...you know no other way. I have shaved off close to five pounds with better choices. Lighter weight clothes. As your tag says, "You do have our backs...always!"

Thank you for those kind words.