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Dogs waiting to Bite at Villaviaja

MyDestinationGalicia

Mark Auchincloss
Past OR future Camino
2021
Attention: How unlucky can you get but just got bit by a dog when entering the hamlet of Villaviaje next to a group of houses.4 dogs approached me without any real malice but one was feeling lucky & took a chunk of my leg !! It's the first stage of the Camino before Cornatel Castle.
PS After super efficient emergency treatment at Ponferrada Hospital I'm already back where the taxi driver picked me up.
But
really loving every moment of the Camino, breathtaking beauty with every step !
 
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CaminoDebrita

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Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
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W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
I am so sorry to hear this, and especially as you had to have a surgery? What part of your leg? How much of a chunk? What does the dog look like? Is it reported? Is the dog now on a chain?

I hope you are feeling better.
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
Attention: How unlucky can you get but just got bit by a dog when entering the hamlet of Villaviaje next to a group of houses.4 dogs approached me without any real malice but one was feeling lucky & took a chunk of my leg !! It's the first stage of the Camino before Cornatel Castle.
PS After super efficient emergency treatment at Ponferrada Hospital I'm already back where the taxi driver picked me up.
But
really loving every moment of the Camino, breathtaking beauty with every step !
So sorry to hear this but very happy OTOH that this accident obviously didn't lower your spirits.
I remember one huge dog (mastif???) by the house at the curve in Villavieja but the owner was close by and I got away without "wounds". No other bad canine experience for me all the way to SdC.
 

MyDestinationGalicia

Mark Auchincloss
Past OR future Camino
2021
I am so sorry to hear this, and especially as you had to have a surgery? What part of your leg? How much of a chunk? What does the dog look like? Is it reported? Is the dog now on a chain?I hope you are feeling better.

No I'm fine it was cleaned and has a large dressing. I've got anti-biotics to take...I didn't really see the chunk closely ! The dog was a cross breed but small...None are on leads..The doctor in the hospital knows the aldea well and said he wasn't that surprised! Yes I'm fine just reached Borrenes...realky looking forward to Las Medulas...thanks for your concern.
 
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ritescot

Veteran member since 2011
Past OR future Camino
2021
Yes that was my concern...but with cleaning,dressing & anti-biotic pills I'll be fine thanks....

No, you won't be OK if the dog had rabies. You will die. There is no cure for rabies. In the U.S., dogs that bite are quarantined if their vaccination history is unknown, or they are killed and their heads are sent off for rabies testing, and the humans start immediate vaccination with the rabies series. No human survives rabies! Don't be overconfident. Yes, the odds are with you that the dog did not have rabies, even if it was not vaccinated for rabies. But it is indeed a crapshoot.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999, now living in Santiago de C
Past OR future Camino
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/

martin1ws

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2018; (2020); 2021
... OK, so a quick dip into Wikipedia and to my surprise I read that large parts of Continental Europe, including Germany, Benelux, France, Spain and Portugal, are currently declared free of rabies. When did that happen and how many foxes had to be killed, I wonder.
You do not need to kill the foxes.
Oral vaccination against rabies is a preventive measure for animals like foxes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies_vaccine
 

ritescot

Veteran member since 2011
Past OR future Camino
2021
Spain is actually considered a 'rabies free' country by the WHO, see this graphic http://www.who.int/rabies/Presence_dog_transmitted_human_Rabies_2014.png?ua=1

The last case was reported in 2013 (the penultimate case was in 1978) and that dog had been imported from Morocco, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_rabies#Spain and also https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rabies-in-spain-update-14-june-2013

Buen Camino, SY

Thanks for the historic rabies info!
 
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ritescot

Veteran member since 2011
Past OR future Camino
2021
Glad to read that you are feeling ok and walking again already, @MyDestinationGalicia. The comments on rabies reminded me a bit of the BBC mini-series that aired in the 1980s ... I had totally forgotten about it. OK, so a quick dip into Wikipedia and to my surprise I read that large parts of Continental Europe, including Germany, Benelux, France, Spain and Portugal, are currently declared free of rabies. When did that happen and how many foxes had to be killed, I wonder.

Good to know! We are not rabies free in the Texas or the rest of the U.S. Our dogs must be vaccinated for rabies.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
2022
I actually received a three-injection, lifetime rabies vaccine before moving overseas for a decade or so ago. The clinic at the US Department of State administered the shots when we were moving to BELGIUM. I know...go figure...!

Apparently, the nurse consulted an alphabetical list of countries and what vaccinations were required. Unfortunately BELGIUM is listed (single-spaced) immediately above BENIN (in Western Africa). So, we got the first injection.

When we returned a week later for the second injection, the error was caught by a second nurse, but a decision was made to follow through with the three-shot sequence.

So, I have had "my shots." No need to worry about rabies... Now, I will worry about everything else...

I know this was off-topic slightly, but it is a funny story that does sort of relate...
 

poogeyejr

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Norte, May 2011
Norte, Sept 2013
Frances, 1wk, Jan 2017
I actually received a three-injection, lifetime rabies vaccine before moving overseas for a decade or so ago. The clinic at the US Department of State administered the shots when we were moving to BELGIUM. I know...go figure...!

Apparently, the nurse consulted an alphabetical list of countries and what vaccinations were required. Unfortunately BELGIUM is listed (single-spaced) immediately above BENIN (in Western Africa). So, we got the first injection.

When we returned a week later for the second injection, the error was caught by a second nurse, but a decision was made to follow through with the three-shot sequence.

So, I have had "my shots." No need to worry about rabies... Now, I will worry about everything else...

But now you can go to Texas! :D
 
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poogeyejr

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Norte, May 2011
Norte, Sept 2013
Frances, 1wk, Jan 2017
PS After super efficient emergency treatment at Ponferrada Hospital I'm already back where the taxi driver picked me up.
But
really loving every moment of the Camino, breathtaking beauty with every step !

I too had amazing treatment at a Spanish Hospital. The hospitality and the kindness made the illness easier to deal with.
I am glad you are feeling better!

Kathy
 

Jersey

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
July 2017
No, you won't be OK if the dog had rabies. You will die. There is no cure for rabies. In the U.S., dogs that bite are quarantined if their vaccination history is unknown, or they are killed and their heads are sent off for rabies testing, and the humans start immediate vaccination with the rabies series. No human survives rabies! Don't be overconfident. Yes, the odds are with you that the dog did not have rabies, even if it was not vaccinated for rabies. But it is indeed a crapshoot.
I was thinking the same thing.
After some quick research I can't find one death do to rabies in the USA from a dog bite, going back to 2003.
There have been a few deaths in the USA from getting bit outside the country and coming back before being diagnosed.
It looks like as far as rabies in the USA, bats cause the most deaths.
 
Past OR future Camino
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean May/June 2017. Plans to walk Porto 2020
Spain is actually considered a 'rabies free' country by the WHO, see this graphic http://www.who.int/rabies/Presence_dog_transmitted_human_Rabies_2014.png?ua=1

The last case was reported in 2013 (the penultimate case was in 1978) and that dog had been imported from Morocco, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_rabies#Spain and also https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rabies-in-spain-update-14-june-2013

Buen Camino, SY
Hola SY - useful information for future and current pilgrims.
However the only country that has a 100% Rabies Free guarantee is mine (Australia) - we just make it so difficult to bring your dog into the country (Johnny Deep not included). But I take your point about current status; however my personal approach is - be wary of ALL dogs and keep my sticks handy.
 
Past OR future Camino
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean May/June 2017. Plans to walk Porto 2020
I actually received a three-injection, lifetime rabies vaccine before moving overseas for a decade or so ago. The clinic at the US Department of State administered the shots when we were moving to BELGIUM. I know...go figure...!

Apparently, the nurse consulted an alphabetical list of countries and what vaccinations were required. Unfortunately BELGIUM is listed (single-spaced) immediately above BENIN (in Western Africa). So, we got the first injection.

When we returned a week later for the second injection, the error was caught by a second nurse, but a decision was made to follow through with the three-shot sequence.

So, I have had "my shots." No need to worry about rabies... Now, I will worry about everything else...

I know this was off-topic slightly, but it is a funny story that does sort of relate...

I appreciate that this is not a funny situation, but at least you are covered. However something that is not fully understood is that even if you are vaccinated against Rabies this is not a 100% coverage - what it does mean is that your window of treatment is 72-96 hours,(as opposed to 24-48 hours if not vaccinated) and you do not have to have injections directly into the wound. I was vaccinated prior to going to volunteer in East Africa (in 2011) and well outside the 24 hour window. I was given a two page information sheet on the recommended actions following a bite by a dog or monkey etc. But as I said above - for me prevention is a lot better than any cure.
 
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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
I am glad you are ok! Without wanting to start another start another argument about western urban cultural imperialism, this is a problem. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/names-of-towns-with-loose-dogs.36783/

It is also against the law to have dogs running loose when people are around. I remember that an Italian woman was bitten by a big dog running loose out of the gated mansion right before Negreira. The owner was very upset, took the woman to the doctor and drove her up to the albergue in her big Mercedes. Apparently the EU penalties for the owners of dogs who bite are serious.
 

SabineP

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
some and then more. see my signature.
I actually received a three-injection, lifetime rabies vaccine before moving overseas for a decade or so ago. The clinic at the US Department of State administered the shots when we were moving to BELGIUM. I know...go figure...!

Apparently, the nurse consulted an alphabetical list of countries and what vaccinations were required. Unfortunately BELGIUM is listed (single-spaced) immediately above BENIN (in Western Africa). So, we got the first injection.

When we returned a week later for the second injection, the error was caught by a second nurse, but a decision was made to follow through with the three-shot sequence.

So, I have had "my shots." No need to worry about rabies... Now, I will worry about everything else...

I know this was off-topic slightly, but it is a funny story that does sort of relate...


Grrrr... @t2andreo ...we are animals :D:D;)
 

jerbear

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino de madrid, camino francis, camino inverino (2012, 2013,2014)
CdM, Francis, San salvador, primativo june 2015 CDM , francis, inverino 2016
Camino madrid, via de Plata. Santiago.
Coast of the dead malpica to muxia
Attention: How unlucky can you get but just got bit by a dog when entering the hamlet of Villaviaje next to a group of houses.4 dogs approached me without any real malice but one was feeling lucky & took a chunk of my leg !! It's the first stage of the Camino before Cornatel Castle.
PS After super efficient emergency treatment at Ponferrada Hospital I'm already back where the taxi driver picked me up.
But
really loving every moment of the Camino, breathtaking beauty with every step !
Bc sorry to hear this as I passed the pack of dogs also no bites though. I was in obarco. Yesterday thurs. I took the train to ourensr for a festival. A few days then back to obarco. To continue. I like your attitude. Hope I get to meet you some where. Pension dol lat is great place to visit/sleep. I may try Gloria Alburgue once I return to CI. I wander on.....
 
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jgray

New Member
Past OR future Camino
Sarria to Arzua(2013)
Ponferrada to Santiago (2014)
St. Jean to Burgos (2015)
In hopes of Irun to Santiago (2017 or 2018)
I actually received a three-injection, lifetime rabies vaccine before moving overseas for a decade or so ago. The clinic at the US Department of State administered the shots when we were moving to BELGIUM. I know...go figure...!

Apparently, the nurse consulted an alphabetical list of countries and what vaccinations were required. Unfortunately BELGIUM is listed (single-spaced) immediately above BENIN (in Western Africa). So, we got the first injection.

When we returned a week later for the second injection, the error was caught by a second nurse, but a decision was made to follow through with the three-shot sequence.

So, I have had "my shots." No need to worry about rabies... Now, I will worry about everything else...

I know this was off-topic slightly, but it is a funny story that does sort of relate...
I actually received a three-injection, lifetime rabies vaccine before moving overseas for a decade or so ago. The clinic at the US Department of State administered the shots when we were moving to BELGIUM. I know...go figure...!

Apparently, the nurse consulted an alphabetical list of countries and what vaccinations were required. Unfortunately BELGIUM is listed (single-spaced) immediately above BENIN (in Western Africa). So, we got the first injection.

When we returned a week later for the second injection, the error was caught by a second nurse, but a decision was made to follow through with the three-shot sequence.

So, I have had "my shots." No need to worry about rabies... Now, I will worry about everything else...

I know this was off-topic slightly, but it is a funny story that does sort of relate...
Sorry to say but your rabies is not a lifetime vaccine. There is no such thing. After a run-in with bats I, too, received an aggressive vaccine series. But we must consult the public health officials again for any future run-ins.
 

NicP

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Via de la Plata, Seville to Santiago 2016; Camino Frances May 2020 - postponed by COVID
Glad to hear that you're OK @MyDestinationGalicia. Yes - I didn't think you have anything to worry about. You can have faith in the Spanish health system - the local doctor (as in any first-world country) will be far better informed about your risk of rabies and what to do about it than well intentioned people using Google as their primary source of information! Spain has one of the better medical systems in the world - equal to that of other European and North American countries.
 
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Glenn Rowe

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
.
Spain has one of the better medical systems in the world - equal to that of other European and North American countries.

It's better, actually. According to a 2014 Bloomberg study of world health care efficiency, Spain ranked third out of the 58 nations examined, behind Hong Kong and Singapore.

Canada was 16th and Mexico was 17th. The US didn't make it into the top 40.
 

Tim Greig

Pilgrim
Past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2016
Via Podiensis 2017
Via Francigena 2018
Shikoku 2019
round & round Weybridge 2020
Plenty of dog tips on the forum. Top tip: don't turn your back on a dog and just edge away until you clear its territory.
 

Ribeirasacra

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
the highway
Plenty of dog tips on the forum. Top tip: don't turn your back on a dog and just edge away until you clear its territory.

The ironic thing about this thread is the member lives in Galicia where we have a load of dogs running around. Thus I thought they would not have needed to be told how to behave when confronted with dogs.


......... Apparently the EU penalties for the owners of dogs who bite are serious.
There are not EU regulations covering dog biting. Every country has it's own definition of what breed constitutes what is a dangerous dog and what the owner has to be obliged to do with it .

The Spanish do not have one system of health care. Every autonomous community runs it's own health facilities. Thus not all things are equal. I give a link to WIKI which will explain more about the formation of the system, which is quite recent.
According to La Voz, Galicia does not do so badly statistically. But those figures do not give a complete story.

Ironically the very new Universitario Lucus Augusti,in Lugo was recently flooded. A building in Galicia that is not water proof! Rain entering the building even down the lift shafts.


MyD; Glad you are on the mend
 

Jersey

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
July 2017
It's better, actually. According to a 2014 Bloomberg study of world health care efficiency, Spain ranked third out of the 58 nations examined, behind Hong Kong and Singapore.

Canada was 16th and Mexico was 17th. The US didn't make it into the top 40.
As an American I'm not surprised at all but what exactly do they mean by efficiency? How wisely they spend there money?
How quickly you get the right medical care and or procedure done?
How many people they don't kill by accident?
( I just read an article that said medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the USA ) scary stuff
 

Glenn Rowe

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
.
As an American I'm not surprised at all but what exactly do they mean by efficiency? How wisely they spend there money?
How quickly you get the right medical care and or procedure done?
How many people they don't kill by accident?
( I just read an article that said medical errors are the third leading cause of death in the USA ) scary stuff

@Jersey,

Just Google "Bloomberg Health Care Efficiency" for the entire report. Be sure you're looking at the 2014 study, because they did a previous one in 2012. (And don't even look at the comparative per-person cost, unless you like stress-induced insomnia.)

Their findings square with my own experience in Madrid. I became suddenly and critically ill, and was rushed to the hospital. The quality of care I received, from the Emergency Room all the way through my discharge eight days later, was nothing short of excellent.

If I have to get that sick ever again, I really hope I'm in Spain.
 
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Gustavus

New Member
Past OR future Camino
2002, 2004, 2008
Allowing a bitter to run lose is irresponsible and antisocial. I have found that reaching to the ground to pick up a rock, or just pretending to go for a rock, will often cause aggressive dogs to run. They have had rocks thrown at them before and know the routine. A stout staff may be the last resort. A wagging tail means interest, not necessarily friendly interest. On the positive side here is a sweet Atapuerca dog.
 

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MyDestinationGalicia

Mark Auchincloss
Past OR future Camino
2021
Thanks everyone for all the advice,observations etc. I've been on every Camino in Spain & I've walked many as a Guide. I've never had an incident this serious before. I've had dogs behave and approach aggressively but I usually shout "Fora" and that's sufficient !! Galician for "Go Away" or fuera in Spanish. It's the so called docile dogs which are the most dangerous as they lead you into a false sense of security. Best to ignore them.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999, now living in Santiago de C
Past OR future Camino
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
..., I was tempted to bring up the topic of Echinococcus multilocularis. Its spread and increased health risk is apparently a result of successfully eradicating rabies in fox populations in European regions. But Wikipedia and Google tell me that this health scare has apparently not yet reached the Iberian peninsula. Be it as it may, I avoid eating wild berries growing near ground level after having received stern warnings from an Alpine guide several years ago. ...

That was/is still a 'rural myth' in Germany also, that you could get Echinococcus multilocularis related health problems by eating wild berries, thankfully that is not the case. See (sorry, in German) http://www.internisten-im-netz.de/de_fuchsbandwurm-ansteckung-risikofaktoren_1424.html and http://www.wissenschaft.de/home/-/journal_content/56/12054/58565/

In summary, there is no scientific evidence that eating wild berries that grow close to the ground increase the risk, the main vectors seem to be soil (agricultural labour) and infected animals like foxes (hunting).

Buen Camino, SY
 

Tio Huero

Member
Past OR future Camino
SJPDP to Pamplona 2011
Pamplona to Longrono 2012
Sarria to Santiago 2018
Attention: How unlucky can you get but just got bit by a dog when entering the hamlet of Villaviaje next to a group of houses.4 dogs approached me without any real malice but one was feeling lucky & took a chunk of my leg !! It's the first stage of the Camino before Cornatel Castle.
PS After super efficient emergency treatment at Ponferrada Hospital I'm already back where the taxi driver picked me up.
But
really loving every moment of the Camino, breathtaking beauty with every step !
I was bitten by a dog on a leash in downtown Longrono in September 2012, a Golden Retriever of all breeds. I thought they were the gentlest of all breeds. The owner (guardian, if one lives in Boulder, Colorado) assured me that the dog had all shots up to date so I washed the three puncture wounds in my forearm with soap and water and went on with life. I haven't started foaming at the mouth yet so I guess all is well. One would think that at my age I would not take anything for granted. Glad that you are well and walking on.
 
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jerbear

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
Camino de madrid, camino francis, camino inverino (2012, 2013,2014)
CdM, Francis, San salvador, primativo june 2015 CDM , francis, inverino 2016
Camino madrid, via de Plata. Santiago.
Coast of the dead malpica to muxia
I am with the man who got bit
Mygaliciaguy. He is Ok bc we walk on tomorrow. From a rua.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
The ironic thing about this thread is the member lives in Galicia where we have a load of dogs running around. Thus I thought they would not have needed to be told how to behave when confronted with dogs.



There are not EU regulations covering dog biting. Every country has it's own definition of what breed constitutes what is a dangerous dog and what the owner has to be obliged to do with it .

The Spanish do not have one system of health care. Every autonomous community runs it's own health facilities. Thus not all things are equal. I give a link to WIKI which will explain more about the formation of the system, which is quite recent.
According to La Voz, Galicia does not do so badly statistically. But those figures do not give a complete story.

Ironically the very new Universitario Lucus Augusti,in Lugo was recently flooded. A building in Galicia that is not water proof! Rain entering the building even down the lift shafts.


MyD; Glad you are on the mend

Thanks for the correction, Ribeirasacra. I must have misunderstood something from that incident about a decade ago. But I definitely remember that the last time I walked the Invierno, the owner of the casa rural in Villavieja told us that he has wanted to file a denuncia for years because that dog terrorizes the guests in his casa rural. He hasn't done it because it makes for bad neighborly relations but it does suggest he has some remedy under Spanish law. Do you know anything about that?
 

Ribeirasacra

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
the highway
Thanks for the correction, Ribeirasacra. I must have misunderstood something from that incident about a decade ago. But I definitely remember that the last time I walked the Invierno, the owner of the casa rural in Villavieja told us that he has wanted to file a denuncia for years because that dog terrorizes the guests in his casa rural. He hasn't done it because it makes for bad neighborly relations but it does suggest he has some remedy under Spanish law. Do you know anything about that?

Originally you said dogs were covered by an EU law. Now I appreciate it was a slip of the finger.
Spanish law:
Dangerous Dogs.
This is information is a bit older.But it illustrates there is or was a difference it what is considered dangerous according to the Comunidad Autónoma the dog is in. (scroll down a bit).
This article is a few years old and may have been changed with the laws quoted in the first link. What it says is that the owner of the dog who attacked you is responsible. However there are exceptions. You must not aggravate the dog. No false moves with sticks then!
The article only writes about if the dog is on a leach,not running wild. So who knows in these case...the same???
All dogs have to be chipped these days but I would bet my last Euro that theses "farm" dogs are usually not.

The problem with a denuncia in Spain is your name and address (etc) is written down for all to see. The only way to get SEPRONA or Guardia Civil to take action is to have a denuncia taken.They do not do things on the sly here. So the man is right neighbourly piece first.
 

zimmecp

Member
Past OR future Camino
Summer 2017
This thread makes me feel much better. I was bitten yesterday... Not a deep wound... More like a scratch... But rabbies was my main concern. Since I ran...I am still trying to track down the owner to double check. I'm inclined to belive that the dog has had his shots ( as required by law) but a reassurance frim the owner would make me feel much better...
 

Ribeirasacra

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
the highway
This thread makes me feel much better. I was bitten yesterday... Not a deep wound... More like a scratch... But rabbies was my main concern. Since I ran...I am still trying to track down the owner to double check. I'm inclined to belive that the dog has had his shots ( as required by law) but a reassurance frim the owner would make me feel much better...
Do not rely on any farm dog, or it's owner abiding by the law.
Be aware of the following facts:
Not all autonomous communities in Spain, consider it mandatory to vaccinate against rabies.The exceptions are Catalonia, Galicia and Euskadi.
I understand that Spain has been classified as rabies free since 1978. Between then and 2014 there were only a few cases in the Autonomous Cities of Ceuta and Melilla (Morocco) and one dog on the mainland which had been to Morocco.
Have you read and understood the symptoms of rabies in animals?
Were there any signs of this in the dog which bit you?
Which brings us to ask what are the chances of any one getting rabies?
And if you do think it was a rabid dog why the hell did you not go straight to hospital?
 
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zimmecp

Member
Past OR future Camino
Summer 2017
@Ribeirasacra ...well I WAS feeling better...but now -less so... Anyway...most of the rabies symptoms I know about require being able to watch the dog longer than the brief period i had with it. That said...since it didn't seem hostile towards the other dogs in the pack...I'm still thinking rabies is unlikely. Also, I found a website from a Spanish vet that said all dogs in Spain are required to have the core vaccines (that includes rabies). I have emailed her for clarification on Basque dogs...but as Spain is classified as rabies free...that generally means that 90something percent have been vaccinated so the disease is not likely to spread...
Like I said in my initial post... I'm just looking to go from 95%sure to 100% sure. Thanks!
 

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