Downside of Budget Carriers

[alhartman]

WOW Air just collapsed telling customers that all flights are cancelled. The financial press has had this subsidiary of Icelandair in financial trouble since fall 2018.

Like many low-cost airlines their model was to entice passengers with ultra-low prices before slapping on extra charges for seat selection, baggage, leg room and food.

I hope this serves as a warning to other airlines using this model. The free carry-on size was only 17x13x10 inches.

BTW, the ‘Financial Default’ portion of travel insurance would cover this loss.

 

[t2andreo]

My late Sicilian grandmother had a saying she was fond of repeating... "Buy cheap...pay twice..."

The moral of the story was to invest in a quality product (or service) the first time, and your buyer's remorse may be lessened. I felt that it was always good advice.

I avoid bargain airlines largely because they under promise AND under deliver from that low point of expectations. At least, with a name brand, established airline, you are dealing with a carrier that will get you there. It may not be the cheapest ride, but it will ultimately be reliable more reliable.

They all over promise and under deliver... always... But I can rely on any established carrier to still be in business several months hence when I want to travel. Seriously, if Iberia, British Airways, American Airlines, Lufthansa, etc. were going away, we would have fair warning and lots of advance notice.

Yes, we can make arguments about cost and value for service until the proverbial cows come home. I respect the difference of opinion. But, my peace of mind, knowing that I shall be able to get to Spain to do my Camino, and return home safely definitely has a value. Also, the more I can minimize uncertainty and drama in the travel process, the more I like it.

Flying sucks! I have been doing it globally, for over 40 years. It was rarely enjoyable. But, it remains the sole way to traverse the globe quickly and safely. So, we tolerate and endure.

My thought remains to smooth the process as much as I can. A few hundred extra Euros either way, is not going to break my bank. I realize this is different for every person.

But, I look at it this way. Would an extra 10 - 15 percent in your r/t airfare, for taking a major carrier, completely ruin your Camino budget? Are you seriously planning THAT tightly? Should you not plan for the possibility of a screw up beyond your control?

I like to plan ahead and ALWAYS have a Plan B for everything, in every aspect of life. What it takes away in spontaneity, it tends to reduce in uncertainty and drama. Yer pays yer money and makes yer choices... That's life...

Hope this helps...

 

[alhartman]

t2andreo: I have to fully agree--but would also add that in this age of 'disruptive technologies', even our reliable and loved brands are at risk. I always bought Craftsman Tools!!
And Iberia/British Airways 2011 merger did not come from each company's financial strength--but allowed a layoff of 4500 to save money.
And all my early international travel was on PanAm--before traveling sucked so much.
My first budget flite was RyanAir: Santiago to London--1 pound in 2005 with nearly 15 pounds of add-ons (poles, checked bag, seat). Methinks I am still mad about that upsell experience!!
With a Pacific Time Zone starting point, it is the steadily decreasing seat pitch that is killing me; even at only 5-10. I think we are now at 30 inches. If I were rich, I would fly business on anything over 4 hours. Had one Iberian upgrade from IAD to Toulouse and was actually rested and ready to walk after the red-eye. Pure heaven.
I cannot imagine how all the stranded WOW passengers feel right now about their bargain fare!!

 

[lissie45]

I'm old enough to remember that it once took me months of saving to afford the 3 hour flight from NZ to Australia - it was approximately 4x the minimum wage in 1983. That very same flight - on the same airline (Air NZ - not a budget airline) - now costs approximately 1/4 of the minimum weekly wage. In fact the actual cost is similar - after 35 years!

I also endured immigrating to NZ via one of the last passenger ships - not a cruise ship in the early 1970s . There was no kids club, the food made all of us our sick - my baby brother dangerously so - my mother travelling solo - was also incredibly ill - at age 8 I ran free with no adult supervision - because there was no help for her. Why did we spend 6 weeks on a boat rather than 30 odd hours flying - it was too expensive to fly.

Yeah I'm a fan of budget airlines which shook up the industry and meant that you didn't have to be rich to fly.

 

[Cayou]

Less I missed something, Icelandair is their competitor? Wow undercut a lot of other majors for the growing popular Iceland market. In 2017, Wife & I took Wow from Paris to Iceland for 12 day holiday, and then home to LA. They were new 787 Dreamliners with good service and a great price...… Apparently they should have charged a bit more!

 

[trecile]

I've read quite a bit about Norwegian struggling too.

 

[JillGat]

I buy everything and pay all my bills with a credit card that gives me frequent flier miles on American/Iberian/British Airlines. I usually pay it off each month. I haven't paid for any flights in a long time.

 

[Kathar1na]

My first budget flite was RyanAir: Santiago to London--1 pound in 2005 with nearly 15 pounds of add-ons (poles, checked bag, seat). Methinks I am still mad about that upsell experience!!

You are mad about a flight from Santiago to London that cost you 16 pounds?

I'm aware of the pricing policies of low cost carriers but their flights are still cheap!!!

 

[ksam]

Unfortunately...I just got caught out by this. Fortunately not for the Camino. Rather sadly, taking the last of my fathers ashes back to his childhood home in Germany. So..promptly did as @t2andreo paid twice!! I still feel lucky that I found out about this right as it happened and I was able to find complimentary flights that meshed with the rest of this journey! I really feel for someone coming home from work and finding this out via the evening news.

 

[tominrm]

I've read quite a bit about Norwegian struggling too.

So have I. I have a one segment reservation on Norwegian flight on April 1 and my fingers are crossed.

 

[MickMac]

"I LOVE RYANAIR" thank you for giving most people a chance to go on Camino at a reasonable rate.

 

[Dorpie]

The Airline industry has always (well the last 40 years at least) been a volatile one, pretty much my earliest memory of flying was being stranded in the US with my parents as Skytrain (an early budget airline) collapsed.

I don't think any one of us would voluntarily fly a budget airline if we had unlimited funds but the reality is a little discomfort during a flight can equal a much better time at our destination or even mean the difference between flying or not.

As for reliability I'd be interested to know how big a difference in major delays there are between budget and bigger airlines. Purely anecdotally two of my most recent major delays were on BA and Emirates.

 

[Albertagirl]

The Airline industry has always (well the last 40 years at least) been a volatile one, pretty much my earliest memory of flying was being stranded in the US with my parents as Skytrain (an early budget airline) collapsed.

I don't think any one of us would voluntarily fly a budget airline if we had unlimited funds but the reality is a little discomfort during a flight can equal a much better time at our destination or even mean the difference between flying or not.

As for reliability I'd be interested to know how big a difference in major delays there are between budget and bigger airlines. Purely anecdotally two of my most recent major delays were on BA and Emirates.

@Dorpie
I have just bought my tickets from Calgary to Madrid for this fall's camino, after not going last year. They are via Air Canada and expensive. But the schedule offers one of the shortest journeys from Calgary to Madrid, with only one change and arrival at a convenient time for onward ground travel. I did not pay the extra charge for a seat, although I hate sitting for hours in a centre seat. Maybe I can get an aisle seat when I finally book my seat the day before I leave. I remember the challenges I had when I chose the cheapest travel options for my first camino, culminating in my throwing up on the plane out of Madrid on the first section of the return leg. I can sleep comfortably enough in an albergue bunk if that is what my budget requires, but I now know that it does not work so well for me to push too hard to get the cheapest travel arrangements. Depending on your age, your health, your previous experience, your preferences, each pilgrim will choose what works for him or her. And buen camino to all.

 

[alhartman]

kathar1na: My gripe is not with the overall cost (cheap), but with the sneaky pricing model. I would have the same rant against an albergue that charged 1 euro registration, 2 euro for a mattress, and had pay toilets! Monetizing items under the guise of 'choices' does not sit well with me. The airlines pricing model has always made me crazy even tho I know why they do it (maximized revenue)! At least it makes me grateful that Home Depot does not use the same pricing model for paint: 'oh, you want to paint on Saturday, that is $5 per gallon more"

 

[Vacajoe]

Norwegian/Wizz/RyanAir/etc airlines have enabled my wife and I to travel extensively over the past few years. Since Day 1 I have heard that “they are in trouble” and I was a fool for risking it. As I see it, I am money ahead at this point, having greatly enjoyed all these trips while others “packed their fears” and paid more or didn’t travel.

Interstingly enough, I’ve only been stranded once by an airline (resulting in a 12 hour taxi ride in India), but that was by a “real” airline company who decided that our route wasn’t as profitable that day and used our plane elsewhere. Large does not equal likely...

 

[naplesdon]

Like t2a I cut my teeth on international travel using Pan Am, they were by far the gold standard of aviation, full stop. Alone, I took over 30 round trip flights to Sydney from the west cost during the 1980's, and they way they treated their passengers was beyond first class whether you flew first, business or stowage.
Yes, the world of aviation has changed since then and it is a lot more affordable these days but the seating and the "monetizing" that nickel and dimes a passenger is beyond belief.
Next month I am flying to visit my grandsons in Denver and using airline miles that I accumulated on Frontier Airlines and yet the round trip ticket is costing me $150 for my carry on bag and a seat to sit in.
The one warning I will offer about booking on discount airlines and attempting to book your own "package" is to make sure you plan for long layovers, maybe even nights sleeping in the waiting area, because that is probably the reward you will get for saving a few 100 dollars.

 

[KinkyOne]

Flying mostly inside Europe it helps my budget greatly using low-cost carriers. And (knock on wood = my head) I never was disappointed by them because I knew exactly what I would get.
Even for flying to US West Coast and back from/to my national airport (20km from home) with just one stop (3 hrs there and 4,5 hrs return layover) I have found tickets for 745€. And I found those flights in about one hour searching the internet. Why would I want to pay like 1359€ each way is unimaginable and even more unreasonable for me. I would rather give the difference in that cost to charity than to air carrier if I could afford it.

But to each his own

 

[naplesdon]

I sure hope no one is paying $1300 each way. The current fare seems to be around $1100-1200 RT for a flight to CDG, MAD, BIO or BOD from just about any airport in the US with established airlines if you are booking ahead and not waiting for fare breaks closer to your travel dates

 

[CWBuff]

t2andreo: I have to fully agree--but would also add that in this age of 'disruptive technologies', even our reliable and loved brands are at risk. I always bought Craftsman Tools!!

...Ahhhh...Craftsman tools.... My final moment came when I bought a $500.00 Craftsman snow blower which broke after 5 uses (auger went of all things) and with 2-year warranty Sears refused to fix it "in house" because as they said "the Manufacturer wouldn't let them" (however its a shame that I didn't buy the OPTIONAL Sears warranty because then...?!?!?! Right??? Then the manufacturer WOULD let them! OY!)

If I were rich, I would fly business on anything over 4 hours. Had one Iberian upgrade from IAD to Toulouse and was actually rested and ready to walk after the red-eye. Pure heaven.
I cannot imagine how all the stranded WOW passengers feel right now about their bargain fare!!

Yeah we should all be rich as to fly 1st class to Camino(s). Would be nice to sleep on that reclining bed.....

 

[CWBuff]

As for reliability I'd be interested to know how big a difference in major delays there are between budget and bigger airlines. Purely anecdotally two of my most recent major delays were on BA and Emirates.

I believe my worst one in a long time was Ukrainian Aerosvit from JFK to Kiev bordering on almost 5 hours in 2008. Of course the jury is still out determining if Aerosvit can be considered a 'budget' airline (or even one at all )

 

[CWBuff]

Alone, I took over 30 round trip flights to Sydney from the west cost during the 1980's, and they way they treated their passengers was beyond first class whether you flew first, business or stowage.
Yes, the world of aviation has changed since then and it is a lot more affordable these days but the seating and the "monetizing" that nickel and dimes a passenger is beyond belief

And that is my gripe as well. I cannot argue the point that some people made in re: "the flying is not for rich anymore". However, there is always this "you get what you paid for" thingy (which BTW snakes through this whole discussion as well) and with cheaper prices came the baggage restrictions, non-reclining seats (yes 99% of people used to recline in good old times and nobody ever complained... when it was time for a meal - all seats went up...), narrow seats - everyone is packed like sardines now, even some of Economy Plus seats can be questionable...
I remember as well at least ONE meal per flight (peanuts, pretzels and such were given out in abundance "just because") and much better than meals they serve now (and you have to BUY it), easy 1 hour or more between flights (which allowed THOROUGH cleaning of the cabin) and probably other things that I forget. You were the CUSTOMER and yes as mentioned above - treated like you belonged in 1st Class (speaking of which - todays "1st class" is NOT the same 1st class... yeah it is slightly better than steerage but not by much and even that service is declining due to the mileage upgrade programs...)
So... the air travel is 'much more affordable' now but.... you get what you paid for (and I can argue that even when you do pay - it leaves one wishing for better)

 

[ConnachtRambler]

Like many low-cost airlines their model was to entice passengers with ultra-low prices before slapping on extra charges for seat selection, baggage, leg room and food.

I hope this serves as a warning to other airlines using this model. The free carry-on size was only 17x13x10 inches.

My first choice for flying within Europe is Ryanair, a low cost airline on a very sound financial footing. I take between 10 and 20 Ryanair flights per year and have been doing so for years. I follow the rules and I have never had any complaint. In fact I can cite a number of occasions when the airline was deserving of praise.

My next Ryanair flight is Dublin to Porto. Cost per passenger €31 including "Priority" boarding and two cabin bags. 30 years ago such a journey would cost the equivalent of €200, with inflation that probably equates to €400-€500 now. Ryanair doesn't offer a free glass of wine and cooked meal but I can live with that.

Liam

 

[Vacajoe]

This is my third trip to Europe from San Francisco, California in the past year — each flight on Norwegian Aur was DIRECT, on a new 787 Dreamliner, and less than $425 round trip. Yes, that’s only a carry-on bag and no meal, but those are easy things to give up for the savings.

However, to each his own. I appreciate all you folks spending $1,000+ each way since it keeps these airlines solvent for us budget travelers.

 

[Kathar1na]

kathar1na: My gripe is not with the overall cost (cheap), but with the sneaky pricing model. I would have the same rant against an albergue that charged 1 euro registration, 2 euro for a mattress, and had pay toilets! Monetizing items under the guise of 'choices' does not sit well with me. The airlines pricing model has always made me crazy even tho I know why they do it (maximized revenue)!

It's not their pricing model as such, it's misleading advertising. Ryanair was a pioneer in this field and became famous for it, an Irish group even made a hilarious song about it, but the EU's consumer protection arm cracked down on it years ago and the same happened probably elsewhere.

The budget airlines are competing with the established carriers and vice versa, and everyone with each other. So it irks me too, when I have to pay 10 € extra to know in advance where my seat will be and it seems so unfair, doesn't it, but frankly it's a service that has value for me and not for others and my overall ticket price is still quite affordable.

The new and stricter rules about luggage dimensions etc are apparently driven by the need to reduce cost (faster turnaround). For the profit of the shareholders or the purchasers of tickets or running costs and investment? That's anyone's guess.

 

[t2andreo]

If you are still stranded by the WOW debacle, see the post I just put out there.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/major-airlines-offering-rescue-fare-to-stranded-wow-customers.61090/

There is helps available...

Hope this helps

 

[Ellann]

My late Sicilian grandmother had a saying she was fond of repeating... "Buy cheap...pay twice..."

The moral of the story was to invest in a quality product (or service) the first time, and your buyer's remorse may be lessened. I felt that it was always good advice.

I avoid bargain airlines largely because they under promise AND under deliver from that low point of expectations. At least, with a name brand, established airline, you are dealing with a carrier that will get you there. It may not be the cheapest ride, but it will ultimately be reliable more reliable.

They all over promise and under deliver... always... But I can rely on any established carrier to still be in business several months hence when I want to travel. Seriously, if Iberia, British Airways, American Airlines, Lufthansa, etc. were going away, we would have fair warning and lots of advance notice.

Yes, we can make arguments about cost and value for service until the proverbial cows come home. I respect the difference of opinion. But, my peace of mind, knowing that I shall be able to get to Spain to do my Camino, and return home safely definitely has a value. Also, the more I can minimize uncertainty and drama in the travel process, the more I like it.

Flying sucks! I have been doing it globally, for over 40 years. It was rarely enjoyable. But, it remains the sole way to traverse the globe quickly and safely. So, we tolerate and endure.

My thought remains to smooth the process as much as I can. A few hundred extra Euros either way, is not going to break my bank. I realize this is different for every person.

But, I look at it this way. Would an extra 10 - 15 percent in your r/t airfare, for taking a major carrier, completely ruin your Camino budget? Are you seriously planning THAT tightly? Should you not plan for the possibility of a screw up beyond your control?

I like to plan ahead and ALWAYS have a Plan B for everything, in every aspect of life. What it takes away in spontaneity, it tends to reduce in uncertainty and drama. Yer pays yer money and makes yer choices... That's life...

Hope this helps...

On the other hand I have never had any problems with Air Asia, JJet Star or Cebu Pacific, with carry on luggage, and being happy with the seat assigned to me, and take my own food and water on board because I can. Of course I am only travelling to South East Asia. From Australia it makes sense to fly with airlines like Thai Airways etc. because luggage, seat and food etc is all included.

 

[Annette london]

My first choice for flying within Europe is Ryanair, a low cost airline on a very sound financial footing. I take between 10 and 20 Ryanair flights per year and have been doing so for years. I follow the rules and I have never had any complaint. In fact I can cite a number of occasions when the airline was deserving of praise.

My next Ryanair flight is Dublin to Porto. Cost per passenger €31 including "Priority" boarding and two cabin bags. 30 years ago such a journey would cost the equivalent of €200, with inflation that probably equates to €400-€500 now. Ryanair doesn't offer a free glass of wine and cooked meal but I can live with that.

Liam

Well said
Most of our flights are with Ryanair too
Never had a problem with them since the started from Stansted.....more like a "shed" back then!
Before that, it was a horrendous journey ...train and boat...and God help you in the Irish Sea if you suffered from sea sickness..it was pure hell...so thank goodness those days are over!

I regularly fly to Dublin with hand luggage for approximately £20 ..
It's cheaper than getting from one side of London to the other, but again we are lucky here as we have free travel.

And it's mainly because of Ryanair that so many have been able to travel.

3 years ago when we had to cancel our flight from Santiago due to illness Ryanair gave us the money back ...within a week!!

Why.....when budget airlines are mentioned, does Ryanair always bear the brunt of people's venom?
After all, many many airlines are now following the Ryanair model..pay for food, pay for seats, pay for hold luggage...this includes British airways for all of these

Also when flights have often been cancelled,(apart from staff strikes last year) it's usually the fault of air traffic controllers in France who always seem to be on strike ....then every airline is affected

Mind you, when we do fly with BA, we use air miles ..wouldn't think of paying their exorbitant fares unless we had to.

People need to work out which airline is best for them re cost, length of journey, connections etc and of course "cheap" may not always be the best option....just as "expensive" may not be eirher

So many moan about Ryanair, but they still fly with them...I wonder why?!
Yes, some budget airlines are at risk these days but I don't think that Ryanair is going anywhere any time soon...pardon the pun!!

 

[Hansel]

Well said
Most of our flights are with Ryanair too
Never had a problem with them since the started from Stansted.....more like a "shed" back then!
Before that, it was a horrendous journey ...train and boat...and God help you in the Irish Sea if you suffered from sea sickness..it was pure hell...so thank goodness those days are over!

I regularly fly to Dublin with hand luggage for approximately £20 ..
It's cheaper than getting from one side of London to the other, but again we are lucky here as we have free travel.

And it's mainly because of Ryanair that so many have been able to travel.

3 years ago when we had to cancel our flight from Santiago due to illness Ryanair gave us the money back ...within a week!!

Why.....when budget airlines are mentioned, does Ryanair always bear the brunt of people's venom?
After all, many many airlines are now following the Ryanair model..pay for food, pay for seats, pay for hold luggage...this includes British airways for all of these

Also when flights have often been cancelled,(apart from staff strikes last year) it's usually the fault of air traffic controllers in France who always seem to be on strike ....then every airline is affected

Mind you, when we do fly with BA, we use air miles ..wouldn't think of paying their exorbitant fares unless we had to.

People need to work out which airline is best for them re cost, length of journey, connections etc and of course "cheap" may not always be the best option....just as "expensive" may not be eirher

So many moan about Ryanair, but they still fly with them...I wonder why?!
Yes, some budget airlines are at risk these days but I don't think that Ryanair is going anywhere any time soon...pardon the pun!!

Have to agree with you two, I've had my moneys worth out of Ryanair, and none of this pulling curtains over the front of the plane!
Flying Edinburgh to Santander on the 10th April, only slight complaint is the flights I booked last year from Vigo to Edinburgh no longer run,( and that was with Easyjet!) but for £50 , including checking in my rucksack, and booking seat 1A , I can't really complain,
Bill