el Camino de las Cafe-Bars

[sillydoll]

On my recent Camino walk I was really frustrated by our inability to get stamps -´sellos´ - from churches. The majority of churches we passed by were closed. Of those that were open, there were very few with a pilgrim stamp on offer. I recall only three churches on this trip that had someone sitting in the church offering a stamp to passing pilgrims.
I remember reading somewhere that the pilgrim office doesn´t really like to find a credencial filled with stamps from bars and restaurants but if you do not stay in the albergues the only other places you can get a stamp is in cafe-bars, restaurants, hotels, tourism offices etc.
In some towns we read a notice on a church door directing us to another church in the town for the ´sello´ When we got there that church was also closed.
In Melide the other day we walked an extra few hundred meters to the Parish Church to get a stamp in our passport. We couldn´t find one but a rather irritated gentleman sitting in the pews told us to go to the door on the right of the altar. I knocked on the door and when I opened it, two angry men told us to go away in no uncertain terms. "Sello?" I asked. "No! No! No!" said one, shooing us away with his hands. So, no church sello in Melide - but we did get three from different bars on the way out of town.
Many cafe-bars have a stamp or stamp and pad on their counters so that pilgrims can just walk in and stamp their passports without disturbing the bar owner. Surely churches can do the same thing? If a church is open to visitors, they could chain a stamp to the table at the entrance that has their notices and booklets on it. Even if the church is closed it would be possible to have a small table outside somewhere with a stamp on the table for passing peregrinos.
The church in Lavacolla was open last week but when we asked for a stamp we were told that they don't have one and that we should get one at Monte de Gozo.
If a pilgrim presents their credencial at the pilgrims office in Santiago the staff should be forgiven for thinking that they have made a pilgrimage to the bars and cafes of Spain from St Jean pied de Port to Santiago. They should also forgive the pilgrim for not having more sellos from churches as there are few opportunities to get church stamps on the Camino Frances.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I had only one stamp per day, and the Pilgrim Office did not challenge me. I think the policy is flexible. A number of places seemed irritated by pilgrims who wanted a sello. One had a sign saying the stamp was only for those staying there.

Churches are open in France; they are closed in Spain. Go figure.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

If a pilgrim presents their credencial at the pilgrims office in Santiago the staff should be forgiven for thinking that they have made a pilgrimage to the bars and cafes of Spain from St Jean pied de Port to Santiago. They should also forgive the pilgrim for not having more sellos from churches as there are few opportunities to get church stamps on the Camino Frances.

The Pilgrims' Office doesn't care where the stamps come from. There is NO policy (and they say there never has been a policy) which says that sellos should not exclusively come from bars and restaurants. The only requirement is that pilgrims have stamps (preferably two per day) for each day of the last 100 kms if walking or on horseback and 200 kms for those on bicycle.

The statement on the inside page of the CSJ Pilgrim Record stating that sellos should not all be from bars and restaurants is completely erroneous. This is simply a myth. NB there is no mention of the source of sellos on the official credencial of the cathedral of Santiago which is issued by the Pilgrims' Office and is available for .75 centimes (donativo) throughout Spain.

 

[newfydog]

I much prefer sellos and tampons (yes, thats the French term) from places I stay or eat. It gives me a nice record for reference.

The Pilgrims office took one look at the sunburned guy with a book filled with stamps from Le Puy and was satisfied. They then got on with the important business of explaining to me they wouldn't give me a certificate without claiming at least some form of spiritual element to the trip. I told them I was not Catholic, but that it was a great trip on one which one can't help but ponder the spiritual world sometime, and the signed my form.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I was told that in France the churches are open because they are government property, and the local government and police keep an eye on them.

In Spain they are property of a diocese or religious order that has to pay someone to be there, or spare a monk or other worker from other duties. Most of the smaller towns along the camino are pretty depopulated, and who wants to spend their otherwise productive hours in a darksome church, stamping credentials for nothing?
The Junta de Castilla y Leon and the camino dioceses have for the past three years run a grant program that pays a stipend to villages and towns that keep their churches open in summer months for tourist and pilgrim visits. Our church, Sto. Tomas in Moratinos, is participant, several families in the village rotate the duties among themselves. Hundreds of people pass by the front door every day, but our average number of daily visitors, even in "high season," is 36. (The days are long, but most of the neighbors here enjoy the opportunity to sit and read, dust and clean the church, or meet pilgrims from all over the world on their weekly "church duty.")
The sello is not the church sello, because the church does not have one. It´s the "Moratinos/Tierra de Campos" sello we have used at The Peaceable for the past 5 years. Might as well be a bar!

You cannot leave the church entryway open and unattended because people will use it for a doss-house, picnic stop, or toilet. (it´s true!) If you leave a stamp there, even one that is chained to the wall, it will disappear. (it´s true. Some pilgs think a real sello-stamp will make a great souvenir. We have lost two this way.)

Like Johnnie said, it really doesn´t matter, Compostela-wise.

 

[SabsP]

The church in Redecilla del Camino is right across the municipal albergue. The hospitalera and the ladies who make dinner have a key of the church. I spent a lovely afternoon with one of the ladies next to the open church on one of the benches.

Triacastela's church is also open ( sello available ) and the parish church of La Portela too ( parish of San Juan Bautista ).

 

[+@^^]

ah yes
the revival of the 1000kay pub crawl
this is sure to increase camino numbers

 

[+@^^]

hmmm
i was thinking...
.
if the churches opened bars near the cheap seats at the back
(strictly segregated to prevent the regular parishioners from inhaling tabacco smoke)
.
no, this wont work
.
but
maybe if the bars opened a prayer section
.
maybe its not a good idea to start this
.
headlines:
parishioners inhale tobacco smoke
pub crawlers suffocate from insense inhalation

 

[sillydoll]

The statement on the inside page of the CSJ Pilgrim Record stating that sellos should not all be from bars and restaurants is completely erroneous. This is simply a myth.

Thanks John - I knew I'd read it somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I don't have a Confraternity credential to see what it says, but this is what the CSJ website says:

In 2002 the Pilgrim Office in Santiago started asking pilgrims to get two stamps per day in their credenciales or Pilgrim Records. We asked for confirmation and clarification of this new request, and here is their reply:

"Last year we started to control a little bit more the credentials and the stamps, in order to differenciate pilgrims on foot, horse or by bicycle from those who are using other means of transport to come to Santiago. The Cathedral of Saint James wants to be fair with those who are doing the pilgrimage by giving them, and only them, the "Compostela". That is the reason why we ask for two stamps per day. However, we understand that if a pilgrim starts the Way in a far away point, it is enough to get only one stamp. Otherwise, they would need several credentials. We specially apply the rule of the two stamps per day to pilgrims starting from Galicia. We really appreciate your interest on the matter, and will be very grateful if you would give that piece of information to the pilgrims addressing the Confraternity."

So, be prepared, if you're starting from anywhere west of say Ponferrada (or picking up a pilgrimage made in stages), to get two stamps a day, and get hold of another credencial if you need room for the extra stamps. However, if you've come from outside Galicia, one stamp a day within Galicia is still enough. (This advice was confirmed by the Pilgrim Office in June 2006.)

 

[lynnejohn]

From the Confraternity of Saint James Pilgrim's Record:

Along the Way, stamps can be obtained from churches, cathedrals, refugios, town halls (ayuntamientos) or hotels. A Record full of stamps from bars should be avoided.

lynne

 

[Deleted member 3000]

They probably don't want to throw out a whole press run. Their language sounds more like a recommendation than an edict. The American Friends' credential is just like the one given along the Camino this year except for their imprint in one place. It used to be more individual. The CSJ may fall into conformity when they run out of old ones, and may have done so if you are looking at an older edition.

 

[sillydoll]

stamps can be obtained from churches, cathedrals, refugios, town halls (ayuntamientos) or hotels. A Record full of stamps from bars should be avoided.

Churches, cathedrals and most refuges are closed during the time many pilgrims walk. We got stamps from the pensions, hostales, casa rurals and posadas that we stayed in as well as many from cafe-bars.

 

[sillydoll]

stamps can be obtained from churches, cathedrals, refugios, town halls (ayuntamientos) or hotels. A Record full of stamps from bars should be avoided.

Churches, cathedrals and most refuges are closed during the time many pilgrims walk. We got stamps from the pensions, hostales, casa rurals and posadas that we stayed in as well as many from cafe-bars.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I have never had more than one stamp per day, and rarely get a sello anywhere except the albergue/hostal where I stayed. The Pilgrim Office has never grilled me about the stamps. I think they are pretty good at spotting the "suspicious" pilgrims, and let the others through without a hassle. Maybe I am just lucky.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

OK Otra vez:

The statement on the inside page of the CSJ Pilgrim Record stating that sellos should not all be from bars and restaurants is completely erroneous. This is simply a myth.

 

[newfydog]

If we were meant to just visit holy sites, why would Molinaseca have about seven bars and one church? Free tapas with a beer too!