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Ethical question in the Albergue

jgpryde

Member
Time of past OR future Camino
St.Jean-Santiago (2017)
Last night I was checked into the municipal alburgue in Reliegos, a small quiet town twenty-odd km east of Leon. The dormitory was nearly completo by the time I arrived at 15:30.

When the perigrinos had finally settled down for the night there was a minimum of snoring, thankfully.

Perhaps because of that quietness, I was awakened at about midnight by pounding on the main door downstairs. Someone very clearly wanted in. The hospitero had long since locked up and gone home.

I layed there for several minutes contemplating the possibilities until whoever it was gave up and went away.

Was it a paid resident that had missed the lock up curfew?

Was it a late traveler looking for room at the inn? (Was his wife heavy with child?)

Was it a thief or terrorist looking to takedown a building of defenseless pilgrims?

If I were to get up and find out would I be violating some albergue regulation, or worse, putting my fellow perigrinos at risk?

If I ignored the pounding and went back to sleep (which I ultimately did), would I be complicit in whatever misfortune this wayward person were to suffer as a result?

Is there a protocol for this? What was the right thing to do?

I appreciate any insights other perigrinos might offer.

Buen Camino,
-jgp
 
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My first thought is that admission to an albergue is the responsibility of the hospitaleros, and pilgrims in the albergue are guests in the establishment with no right or responsibility to admit others. It is also my second and third thought.

What would make a difference? I would think that imminent threat to life definitely would - but someone who has walked up to an albergue door at such a late hour mightn't obviously be in a life threatening situation, and you don't suggest that in any case.
 
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This has happened to me in a very very strange and creepy backpacker hostel in Gibraltar. So creepy that as I was alone in the dorm I had pushed a chest of drawers in front of my door. Banging banging on the street door late at night. Went on for ages. Eventually someone let them in and they tried to get into my room, pushed really hard on the door until the chest of drawers suddenly budged and they flew in and they, their luggage, and the chest flew across the room and banged into the opposite wall. I leapt out of bed and screamed WHO THE HELL ARE YOU! at the unfortunate man, whose suitcase handle had also broken and his case had burst open so all his clothes were strewn everywhere. He was a perfectly innocent man whose flight had been delayed. I felt quite bad but we both went to sleep no harm done.

So I can't really advise you about the ethics, sorry.
 
There is always the middle way - go to the door/window and ask what their story is. As there were several other pilgrims with you in the albergue, I think that the risk would have been pretty low and you could always have made a joined decision. Buen Camino, SY
 
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its a great question, I think I would probably go to the door and ask for an explanation and if it made sense, let them in. My guess is that there are only two explanations that would make sense, I am intoxicated and came home late or my transportation was delayed (but this would be pretty limited to places people start)
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
... My guess is that there are only two explanations that would make sense, I am intoxicated and came home late or my transportation was delayed (but this would be pretty limited to places people start)

Or there could be a third one - I lost the yellow arrows, walked for hours in the darkness and just got here completely exhausted.
BC SY
 
And not forgetting that midnight is not actually considered all that late in Spain! It is late for pilgrims and albergues, but "normal" life, restaurants, bars etc can often go on till after midnight. Not necessarily intoxicated, maybe someone just lost track of time over a long dinner!
 
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Last night I was checked into the municipal alburgue in Reliegos, a small quiet town twenty-odd km east of Leon. The dormitory was nearly completo by the time I arrived at 15:30.

When the perigrinos had finally settled down for the night there was a minimum of snoring, thankfully.

Perhaps because of that quietness, I was awakened at about midnight by pounding on the main door downstairs. Someone very clearly wanted in. The hospitero had long since locked up and gone home.

I layed there for several minutes contemplating the possibilities until whoever it was gave up and went away.

Was it a paid resident that had missed the lock up curfew?

Was it a late traveler looking for room at the inn? (Was his wife heavy with child?)

Was it a thief or terrorist looking to takedown a building of defenseless pilgrims?

If I were to get up and find out would I be violating some albergue regulation, or worse, putting my fellow perigrinos at risk?

If I ignored the pounding and went back to sleep (which I ultimately did), would I be complicit in whatever misfortune this wayward person were to suffer as a result?

Is there a protocol for this? What was the right thing to do?

I appreciate any insights other perigrinos might offer.

Buen Camino,
-jgp
It was probably @gerardcarey. I wouldn't worry about it; he can look after himself.

And write a great story about it later.
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
It is a very interesting question which is probably easier to think about abstractly, rather than when someone is banging on the door downstairs.

I would first be annoyed that they had woken me up, then i would probably adopt a 'My House, my rules' viewpoint, similar to dougfitz, that it is the responsibility of the hospitalero; the question being "What would happen if I chose to let someone in that then went on to cause trouble of some kind?" Depending on the logistics, I may stick my head out the window to see if I knew the person, or explain that I can't open the door.

i think your response shows up some of your character/personality. I am naturally a cautious person that doesn't like sticking my neck out, but i do care about people, so I lean definitely more on the 'Don't take a risk' side
 
I would say it was probably crazy Sinim walking back from Elvis bar and stopping by to ask for spare cigarettes :D:D

Jokes aside, I guess I'd probably have done the same as you did... We never know...

Vagner
 
An alberge is not a hotel. They have clear rules on opening and closing times. This suits most and allows everyone, (problems with snorers aside) a nights rest. I cannot think why anyone would expect to be allowed in after hours.
 
3rd Edition. More content, training & pack guides avoid common mistakes, bed bugs etc
Last night I was checked into the municipal alburgue in Reliegos, a small quiet town twenty-odd km east of Leon. The dormitory was nearly completo by the time I arrived at 15:30.

When the perigrinos had finally settled down for the night there was a minimum of snoring, thankfully.

Perhaps because of that quietness, I was awakened at about midnight by pounding on the main door downstairs. Someone very clearly wanted in. The hospitero had long since locked up and gone home.

I layed there for several minutes contemplating the possibilities until whoever it was gave up and went away.

Was it a paid resident that had missed the lock up curfew?

Was it a late traveler looking for room at the inn? (Was his wife heavy with child?)

Was it a thief or terrorist looking to takedown a building of defenseless pilgrims?

If I were to get up and find out would I be violating some albergue regulation, or worse, putting my fellow perigrinos at risk?

If I ignored the pounding and went back to sleep (which I ultimately did), would I be complicit in whatever misfortune this wayward person were to suffer as a result?

Is there a protocol for this? What was the right thing to do?

I appreciate any insights other perigrinos might offer.

Buen Camino,
-jgp
leave things alone as you did.
 
There is always the middle way - go to the door/window and ask what their story is. As there were several other pilgrims with you in the albergue, I think that the risk would have been pretty low and you could always have made a joined decision. Buen Camino, SY
I don't agree with because we are not in charge and therefore are meddling if what ever happened we would be culpable. Midnight people know the time come and settle down for he night. Too may on the Camino violate the time to go drinking....sorry I would make a bad hospitalero. curfew us curfew.
 
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An alberge is not a hotel. They have clear rules on opening and closing times. This suits most and allows everyone, (problems with snorers aside) a nights rest. I cannot think why anyone would expect to be allowed in after hours.
And not forgetting that midnight is not actually considered all that late in Spain! It is late for pilgrims and albergues, but "normal" life, restaurants, bars etc can often go on till after midnight. Not necessarily intoxicated, maybe someone just lost track of time over a long dinner!
And that is the problem late is not late in Spain. When I did Camino de la plata , the Albergue was open all nite. A Spanish youth arrived at 2;00 AM and started cooking no regards for others. The light from the kitchen shone on the small dorm. This kid had problems could not/would not abide by Camino rules..such as early retiring he was a problem. Then when 11:00 he had to rest because he was tired..he did this in all the albergues.
 
If I were awakened by knocking and shouting, in a strange place, at midnight, after walking 30k the day before I know I would have had zero clarity or presence of mind and most likely would have felt disoriented and, perhaps, paralyzed. I am also sure the next day I would be rolling this over and over in my mind asking myself what I could/should have done (as you are doing), hoping that if something like this happens again I might have an idea of what to do.

I also hope I might console myself with the knowledge that, even if I could have done something differently, the person at the door was not likely in imminent danger. The worst case scenario was probably a restless night sleeping outdoors. If it was something urgent, he might have persisted longer or moved on to the next home to get someone. And there is also dialing 112 if he was in dire straights. In all probability, there were a great many more options still available to him, including returning to the albergue to have another go at it.

As much as I am wired up to (want to) try to do something helpful, I need to remind myself (often) that an able bodied person with the acumen to navigate "life, the Camino, and everything" is likely to be fine and then some. Perhaps they will end up with a good story to tell to boot!

Hopefully he remembered the two most important things when trekking through the galaxy: "Don't panic and always carry a towel."
 
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Thanks all for the thoughtful responses.


-Jgp
If I were awakened...
...Hopefully he remembered the two most important things when trekking through the galaxy: "Don't panic and always carry a towel."


That is it exactly. You are my brother from another mother.
Buen Camino,
-jgp
 
Huh, tough cookie but I guess I would do as @SYates suggested. Mainly because of what happened to me last summer in muni albergue in Burgos.
There was a soccer championship going on and the latest game of the day finished at approx.22:30. So I asked hospitaleros if it is possible to get in at that time and they said yes, no problem, we do that almost every evening exactly because of the soccer matches.
I tried to get in the albergue at 22:25 and the doors were locked, nobody answered the official phone number and I was on the street in my shorts and T-shirt. I banged the doors few times and as nobody came I went for a beer in a bar opposite to think what should I do (probably just taking a nap on a bench in a nearby park, heh). There were two local younger ladies saw all this and after few minutes when they were going home I guess, they have returned and told me someone has come to the adjacent patio doors and asking for me. An Austrian girl and her Spanish boyfriend heard me banging on the entrance doors previously and with the help of those two Spanish ladies managed to open the "garage-like" steel doors. And then we even had to climb up some fences and two stories higher we were on the terrace of the albergue. All was well. And they smoked all my tobacco ;)

What do you think my answer to this ethical dilemma would be? :D
 
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I am grateful for the ones that do check to see who is banging on the door. At the albergue in Faramello, after dinner in the cafe downstairs, around 8pm, we went to sit in the garden at the back of the building. At 9:30pm we went to the front to go in and found everything locked up tight with shutters closed over the windows. There hadn't been any signs or indication from the hospitalero of a curfew and the cafe was still open and busy when we went to the garden so it was surprising to find the door locked. After banging on the door for a bit, someone came down from the albergue above, and it took a bit of time to figure out how to open the locked door from the inside! So, lessons learned...always check on lock-up time and how to get out of the building after lock-up should you need to!!
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
Follow the rules. Don't risk others comfort for any reason.
 
My concern would be that the person banging on the door, was not a pilgrim, but a local posing as a pilgrim for nefarious purposes
and I would not have the knowledge or the communication skills to tell the difference.
 
Huh, tough cookie but I guess I would do as @SYates suggested. Mainly because of what happened to me last summer in muni albergue in Burgos.
There was a soccer championship going on and the latest game of the day finished at approx.22:30. So I asked hospitaleros if it is possible to get in at that time and they said yes, no problem, we do that almost every evening exactly because of the soccer matches.
I tried to get in the albergue at 22:25 and the doors were locked, nobody answered the official phone number and I was on the street in my shorts and T-shirt. I banged the doors few times and as nobody came I went for a beer in a bar opposite to think what should I do (probably just taking a nap on a bench in a nearby park, heh). There were two local younger ladies saw all this and after few minutes when they were going home I guess, they have returned and told me someone has come to the adjacent patio doors and asking for me. An Austrian girl and her Spanish boyfriend heard me banging on the entrance doors previously and with the help of those two Spanish ladies managed to open the "garage-like" steel doors. And then we even had to climb up some fences and two stories higher we were on the terrace of the albergue. All was well. And they smoked all my tobacco ;)

What do you think my answer to this ethical dilemma would be? :D

:p At least it was tobacco ;)
 
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Slightly worrying that locked doors at the albergues could hinder escape in case of fire

Yes! I've experienced the confusion of exiting a building during an emergency before so I always check the exit route wherever I stay and have encountered the albergue locked door situation a couple of times. In those cases I asked what the procedure was and in both cases was either shown where a key was hidden or how an unusual door latch worked. But I found it odd that this info wasn't shared unless it was asked for.
 
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Yes! I've experienced the confusion of exiting a building during an emergency before................But I found it odd that this info wasn't shared unless it was asked for.
Exactly! One morning I was one of several peregrinos ready to set off and gathered at the albergue door trying to get out, when we realized that the door had been locked from the outside. It was sometime before one of us found a 'back door' which we were able to use. Imagine what could have occurred if there had been a fire.
 
If anyone encounters being locked into a building, they should report that place to the Ayuntamiento for breaching fire safety. Most Spanish buildings have bars on the ground floor windows, so this is dangerous, and absolutely unnecessary. It used to be the case in the municipal albergue in Santander I believe, and I hope it has been stopped.

The only exception is in Monasteries, where the compound gate may be locked, but the buildings would still allow escape into the grounds.
 
its a great question, I think I would probably go to the door and ask for an explanation and if it made sense, let them in. My guess is that there are only two explanations that would make sense, I am intoxicated and came home late or my transportation was delayed (but this would be pretty limited to places people start)

Or "I got lost in the walnut groves in the mountains on the way here." That was my reason when I showed up at 9pm. When the hospitalero answered my knock, I greeted him with a "Buenos Tardes", and he snorted and growled "Es Buenos Noches".
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Similar happened to me. Are you the only one that woke up? In my case, about six woke up! We quickly and quietly came to a consensus to not answer the loud knocking. If it had been accompanied by a cry of 'HELP ME', or some other definite signal of distress, perhaps our decision would have been different. Hard to think real clearly when suddenly woken up. I do think a true emergency would be more clearly recognized.
 
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My concern would be that the person banging on the door, was not a pilgrim, but a local posing as a pilgrim for nefarious purposes
and I would not have the knowledge or the communication skills to tell the difference.
If the person wanted to steal, they would break in, not bang on the door waking and annoying 30 tired people. And ok, you let him in, what is he goign to do when there are 30 people inside ready to defend their few belongings?
 
If anyone encounters being locked into a building, they should report that place to the Ayuntamiento for breaching fire safety. Most Spanish buildings have bars on the ground floor windows, so this is dangerous, and absolutely unnecessary. It used to be the case in the municipal albergue in Santander I believe, and I hope it has been stopped.

The only exception is in Monasteries, where the compound gate may be locked, but the buildings would still allow escape into the grounds.

I have stayed two nights in Santander municipal,the place is like a rabbit warren with only one entrance/exit down a passageway and,as you say,bars on any other means of escape.I'd be reluctant to stay there again unless it's been improved.
 
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I want to know what other ethical temptations people have faced in albergues. Has anyone done anything reprehensible? The confession box is open...I'll go first.

I arrived at an albergue on a really cold day and was trying to check in and warm up when a group of 4 other people arrived and rudely tried to hurry me up. The hospitalero may have noticed their rudeness because he put me and everyone else in a dorm with A LOG FIRE, and them in a freezing unheated room. Over dinner, they got wind of this, and later came mooching around to see if there were spare beds in the toasty room. There weren't, because we had spread out stuff on the empty beds :rolleyes: Right, 10 Hail Marys for me, then.

Who else has done Bad Things?
 
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I want to know what other ethical temptations people have faced in albergues. Has anyone done anything reprehensible? The confession box is open...I'll go first.

I arrived at an albergue on a really cold day and was trying to check in and warm up when a group of 4 other people arrived and rudely tried to hurry me up. The hospitalero may have noticed their rudeness because he put me and everyone else in a dorm with A LOG FIRE, and them in a freezing unheated room. Over dinner, they got wind of this, and later came mooching around to see if there were spare beds in the toasty room. There weren't, because we had spread out stuff on the empty beds :rolleyes: Right, 10 Hail Marys for me, then.

Who else has done Bad Things?
:D:rolleyes: I predict that this is going to need its own thread!
 
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...
Is there a protocol for this? What was the right thing to do?
...
-jgp

This would have been a moot problem at the Check-In Leon alburgue in Peunte Castro (a suburb of Leon) as they provided a 4 digit passcode for the front door at registration. Also the dormitory was behind another interior door so outside sounds were nil.

Granted municipal albergues may not have the funding for this level of design and keep rates below 10€.

Separately, For those who can tolerate a 15-20 minute walk into Leon for sightseeing, this is an excellent choice. Super clean, modern, 10€, and accommodating for multiple day stays.
IMHO.

Buen Camino,
-jgp
 
Staying in small albergues on the less-travelled caminos, I have several times opened the door quite late for weary bicigrinos, stamped their credenciales, told them where to leave the donativo and crawled back into my sleeping bag. The next morning, we've more than once had breakfast together, out of whatever we all had in our packs, and washed the bathroom floor and wiped the kitchen counters before setting off at the same time.

I do pop my head out of the window to see who it is first, and once demanded to see their credencial before I opened the door. (And I usually walk with my husband, so there's two of us.)

As my husband says, I'm just a natural volunteer...
 
There are many serious accidents because too many people have personal interpretations of various "unusual" situations. "Me la juego" is often deadly.
We are supposed to live and behave according to rules, lest we put ourselves and others in danger. The road to hell is paved on good intentions.
Thus: check the rules as you go and adhere to them.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Huh, tough cookie but I guess I would do as @SYates suggested. Mainly because of what happened to me last summer in muni albergue in Burgos.
There was a soccer championship going on and the latest game of the day finished at approx.22:30. So I asked hospitaleros if it is possible to get in at that time and they said yes, no problem, we do that almost every evening exactly because of the soccer matches.
I tried to get in the albergue at 22:25 and the doors were locked, nobody answered the official phone number and I was on the street in my shorts and T-shirt. I banged the doors few times and as nobody came I went for a beer in a bar opposite to think what should I do (probably just taking a nap on a bench in a nearby park, heh). There were two local younger ladies saw all this and after few minutes when they were going home I guess, they have returned and told me someone has come to the adjacent patio doors and asking for me. An Austrian girl and her Spanish boyfriend heard me banging on the entrance doors previously and with the help of those two Spanish ladies managed to open the "garage-like" steel doors. And then we even had to climb up some fences and two stories higher we were on the terrace of the albergue. All was well. And they smoked all my tobacco ;)

What do you think my answer to this ethical dilemma would be? :D
I can't help with the ethical dilemma. Very little wakes me when I am asleep, so I would largely be spared these decisions.;)
But I had the opposite problem in the muni in Burgos some years ago. I can't remember exactly but I needed to get to the bus station for a Madrid bus and it left before the albergue opened - maybe just before 6am. I thought there would be no problem and I could just let myself out. But no. There was a problem!
I pleaded my case and eventually and reluctantly I was shown the 'secret' way out for the morning, which sounds like the reverse of what you did. I had to climb up to a roof terrace first I remember that and then out through a gate in a fence several floors below. No keys were involved. If I let you know how to do it, I would have to kill you:):D
But fortunately I can't remember......
 
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I'd be like HeidiL! On the VdlP the hospitalero didn't appear in the morning, so I found the sellos and stamped everyone's credencials, and yes, usually clean up any mess that's been left, wake up pilgrims who haven't woken when there's a morning curfew, - it's the mother hen thing... As long as someones got a credencial - i guess it would be ok to let them in,,, but the curfew is usually well advertised, so if its just someone drunk and late - they won't come to any harm on a park bench (i haven't anyway!:))
We once stayed in a hotel in Ireland and the phone rang at 6am, i ignored it for ages but it kept going, so I answered - it was the builders wanting to get in to start work - i had to pad down in my nightie and let them in - wondering if i was doing the right thing... But when the staff arrived later to do breakfast, they acted like it was a totally normal arrangement... when in Rome i suppose!
 
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If anyone encounters being locked into a building, they should report that place to the Ayuntamiento for breaching fire safety. Most Spanish buildings have bars on the ground floor windows, so this is dangerous, and absolutely unnecessary. It used to be the case in the municipal albergue in Santander I believe, and I hope it has been stopped.

The only exception is in Monasteries, where the compound gate may be locked, but the buildings would still allow escape into the grounds.
Hard to hold on to vocations in this day and age:p
 
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Too true Mr Kenneally. I stayed in a monastery last month where they even locked the gate during siesta. No Love In The Afternoon there :rolleyes:
Psst think you got the Albergue mixed up with the local assylum
 
If the person wanted to steal, they would break in, not bang on the door waking and annoying 30 tired people. And ok, you let him in, what is he goign to do when there are 30 people inside ready to defend their few belongings?

My situation was that I was the only person in the albergue. It is hard to know how you will react until the situation happens to you.
 
My situation was that I was the only person in the albergue. It is hard to know how you will react until the situation happens to you.
Well, you didn't say that originally. When on San Juan de Villapanada I was the first in the albergue, with no hopsy, and only far away neighbours. When I wanted to take a shower I locked the front door thinking anyone else wantong to come in from walking could wait 4 minutes until I was done. Once showered, dried and dressed I opened the door again. Still, no neighbours around.
 
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My first thought is that admission to an albergue is the responsibility of the hospitaleros, and pilgrims in the albergue are guests in the establishment with no right or responsibility to admit others. It is also my second and third thought.

What would make a difference? I would think that imminent threat to life definitely would - but someone who has walked up to an albergue door at such a late hour mightn't obviously be in a life threatening situation, and you don't suggest that in any case.
The "What would Christ do?" question is worthwhile pondering and perhaps acting upon. That said, I have to agree with Doug's comments about peregrinos being guests of the hospitaleros. I hate to sound like an attorney, but just think of the legal ramifications should anything go awry as the result of admitting someone to an albergue that has been officially closed for the night.
Additionally, think how this practice of letting folks in after hours could get out of hand. I can imagine folks saying, "Oh, don't worry; all you have to do is knock and you can get in."
 
In a paying albergue, by letting someone in late, you are effectively letting them stay free.
 
[QU






.
OTE="jgpryde, post: 519530, member: 64072"]Last night I was checked into the municipal alburgue in Reliegos, a small quiet town twenty-odd km east of Leon. The dormitory was nearly completo by the time I arrived at 15:30.

When the perigrinos had finally settled down for the night there was a minimum of snoring, thankfully.

Perhaps because of that quietness, I was awakened at about midnight by pounding on the main door downstairs. Someone very clearly wanted in. The hospitero had long since locked up and gone home.

I layed there for several minutes contemplating the possibilities until whoever it was gave up and went away.

Was it a paid resident that had missed the lock up curfew?

Was it a late traveler looking for room at the inn? (Was his wife heavy with child?)

Was it a thief or terrorist looking to takedown a building of defenseless pilgrims?

If I were to get up and find out would I be violating some albergue regulation, or worse, putting my fellow perigrinos at risk?

If I ignored the pounding and went back to sleep (which I ultimately did), would I be complicit in whatever misfortune this wayward person were to suffer as a result?

Is there a protocol for this? What was the right thing to do?

I appreciate any insights other perigrinos might offer.

Buen Camino,
-jgp[/QUOTE]


Never ever sleep in an albergue if you are locked in. I always check and only once found it locked. That was in Salamanca.
 
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OTE="jgpryde, post: 519530, member: 64072"]
Never ever sleep in an albergue if you are locked in. I always check and only once found it locked. That was in Salamanca.[/QUOTE]
Which albergue in Salamaca?

And could a mod please correct the spelling in the thread's title?
 
And could a mod please correct the spelling in the thread's title?

Really, I don't see that as the moderators' role. PM the OP if it is that important to you. After all, it is pretty clear even with a mis-spelling, and we regularly put up with worse without too much complaint. Here are a couple of recent posts that might have benefited from some more attention to spelling!!
I have also walked in Croc sandals for a few days when I could not stand my boots after two days of walking and did just fine. But, don't expect them to last bery long as they are made of porous material and the thread will quickly disappear. Also, when I walked in them there was no rain, and I know from experience how slippery they can be when it does rain.

I think the Tertulia attempt has show we are ferral cats who prefer the comfort of a tablet to communicate that having to wash up and face up.

:):)
 
In a paying albergue, by letting someone in late, you are effectively letting them stay free.

I would think if someone is arriving late, I would make one of two assumptions ~ that they've already been in earlier, paid and missed the curfew for whatever reason or their journey delayed them past the closing time for the albergue. I've never experienced a situation where someone arrived late (though as I wrote above, I was once that someone banging on the door). I would hope I wouldn't leap to assumptions of something nefarious or be concerned about not letting them in because they hadn't paid. I would be more concerned that someone safely had shelter for the night. If they don't pay that night, they can certainly settle up in the morning.
 
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In a paying albergue, by letting someone in late, you are effectively letting them stay free.

Not necessarily ;-) You can always give them the info, suggestions where to leave their payment/donativo etc. Only because they arrive late (having lost their way f.e.) doesn't mean they are not willing to pay for their stay. BC SY
 
Not necessarily ;-) You can always give them the info, suggestions where to leave their payment/donativo etc. Only because they arrive late (having lost their way f.e.) doesn't mean they are not willing to pay for their stay. BC SY
I agree.Having arrived late at Irun one time,I rang the bell and was let in by a peregrino who showed me to a vacant bed.In the morning I put my money in the box before leaving.
 
I have walked several caminos, including the Frances 4 times, and have consequently stayed at very many albergues. Also I am a hospitalero who has worked at 2 albergues and am one of many official hospitaleros who belongs to the Spanish Association of Hospitaleros Voluntarias
The resident hospitaleros and their immediate superiors are responsible for the albergue and can only admit pilgrims who can produce the authorised credential and identification. Although the rule is often broken. the albergue is only allowed by the authorities to accommodate a certain number of pilgrims (hence Roncevalles in now restricted to 183 pilgrims).
Please remember also that hospitaleros are on duty for up to seventeen hours per day and deserve to get as much sleep as they are able. Probably I would be slightly lenient if a pilgrim arrives up to 15 minutes late, and there was space available. Except in an emergency, a pilgrim should be able to arrive at an albergue before closing time (normally 10pm), and if he or she cannot, then they should attempt to find a hotel or in an extreme emergency, phone 112 for police
And while I am on my high horse, who do you think paints all the yellow arrows, cleans the camino during the winter of all the garbage left by pilgrims, often maintains the pathways, organises the roster of hospitaleros, and the myriad of other works to help pilgrims walk their camino. Volunteers, thousands of them , mainly Spanish, to help you.
In my own case, I pay my own fare from Australia (about US$1200), and pay all my other expenses including living expenses whilst serving.
It is said that the tourist demands and the pilgrim gives thanks.
NOW GOODNIGHT AND GO TO BED, ALL OF YOU!
 
A selection of Camino Jewellery
Except in an emergency, a pilgrim should be able to arrive at an albergue before closing time (normally 10pm), and if he or she cannot, then they should attempt to find a hotel or in an extreme emergency, phone 112 for police.
And while I am on my high horse...
Thank you for getting on your high horse. Really, what reason can anyone of us have not to obey curfew while on holiday? And who are we to think that are disregard for a few basic rules mean we can disturb 10, 20, 30 people, who did manage to show enough respect to obey those rules?

Alas, just another sign of egos on the Camino.
 
Thank you Anemone. I felt that I overdid it rather in my post but your message is very comforting. Canadians are always lovely people.
 
Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
I have walked several caminos, including the Frances 4 times, and have consequently stayed at very many albergues. Also I am a hospitalero who has worked at 2 albergues and am one of many official hospitaleros who belongs to the Spanish Association of Hospitaleros Voluntarias

Thank you for joining the conversation Camino-David, but you didn't answer the OP question . . .

Do I as a guest of your albergue have the right, or obligation to open the door after hours to let someone in.

OR

Would you, as the hospitalero, prefer I not let anyone else in?

Your insight would be greatly appreciated!

Kathy
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
I have stayed at many albergues of the "pick up the key at José's bar, leave it in the mailbox when you leave" kind on the less popular caminos. Several times I have been asked by "José" to let pilgrims in, should any arrive, and I have left my phone number on the door when I left the albergue locked to shop for food, in case anyone arrives while I'm out. I have also stamped the credenciales of passing bicigrinos, refilling their water bottles and wishing them a good camino.

In the tiny villages, where the albergue guest book tells you that the last pilgrim passed by last Friday, "José" would be very surprised to be involved to a greater degree than simply giving the key to someone who has a credencial, and you're most often expected to stamp your own, because the stamp is in the albergue.

Things are different on Camino de Madrid than on the Francés!
 
I have stayed at many albergues of the "pick up the key at José's bar, leave it in the mailbox when you leave" kind on the less popular caminos. Several times I have been asked by "José" to let pilgrims in, should any arrive, and I have left my phone number on the door when I left the albergue locked to shop for food, in case anyone arrives while I'm out. I have also stamped the credenciales of passing bicigrinos, refilling their water bottles and wishing them a good camino.

In the tiny villages, where the albergue guest book tells you that the last pilgrim passed by last Friday, "José" would be very surprised to be involved to a greater degree than simply giving the key to someone who has a credencial, and you're most often expected to stamp your own, because the stamp is in the albergue.

Things are different on Camino de Madrid than on the Francés!

I've experienced this every route I've walked (except Finisterre).
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
Thank you for joining the conversation Camino-David, but you didn't answer the OP question . . .

Do I as a guest of your albergue have the right, or obligation to open the door after hours to let someone in.

OR

Would you, as the hospitalero, prefer I not let anyone else in?

Your insight would be greatly appreciated!

Kathy


Hi Kathy,

Sorry I am late in replying to your post, but I do not check the Forum every day. In answer to your questions:

If there is a hospitalero resident in the albergue, then you do not have the right to allow any person to stay in that albergue. In Spain, as in many other countries in the world, by law a person requiring accommodation has to produce a passport or carte (EU ID card) to the owner or representative, and only a hospitalero has the authority to request this document.
Also you do not have an obligation to open the albergue to any prospective guest. Both the albergues where I served were donativo, and several times we had to turn people away because they were not peregrinos and were possibly free-loaders. A hospitalero has to use commonsense. For example if someone turns up and asks to stay and is not dressed as a peregrine such as clean street shoes/suitcase etc and does not have a credential, he is turned away. On the other hand there are people who live on the camino and are continually travelling along it, but are not in the strict sense of the word a pilgrim, then I would give them a bed, food, shower and put their clothes in a washing machine. Of course if a hospitalero is not on site, then commonsense prevails and I welcome a peregrine if there is room.
Remember also that places of accommodation are legally licensed to only allow a set number of guests to stay. A hospitalero has to obey the law.
I hope that the above answers both questions you raise. Nevertheless, commonsense and compassion should be used.
 
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-

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