Fallen forum friends.

[Al the optimist]

Whatever happened to Denise her sad passing is a loss to her family, to her friends, to fellow forum members and to the Camino.
We walk with a childlike naivety. Full of expectation and wonder. Evolving daily. Our duty as parents is to allow this wonder, this growth, while teaching caution and providing protection. Denise has in some respect become a good parent to many future walkers. May they continue to walk in awe and wonder, with a little caution but with the same spirit as before. I hope that this forum will continue to support the memory of Denise and all other forum members who leave us during their Caminos.
Perhaps we could have a roll call thread? Would this be a good idea? Perhaps Ivar or one of the Moderators, busy as they are could create and update it without anyone else being able to comment? Would that be a way of remembering them along with reminding people of needing to be cautious without being contentious or alarmist?
What do people think? Please don't divert from the topic of this post to make it easier for Ivar to decide.

 

[Tia Valeria]

A good idea Al, and kept 'locked' like the forum rules. Methodist Pilgrim is one who comes to mind and more recently Sagalouts. I don't know if it is still possible to search threads posted by those who have died but it would be good if they were kept live/searchable as part of that remembering. Maybe if Ivar thinks a memorial thread is a good idea he could keep their posts 'live' as they are still helpful to future pilgrims.

 

[mspath]

Fellow Forum member Sillydoll
posted such a list earlier this year in her AmaWalker blog.http://amawalker.blogspot.fr/2012/08/memorials-pilgrims-who-died-on-camino.html?m=1

 

[dougfitz]

Fellow Forum member Sillydoll
posted such a list earlier this year in her AmaWalker blog.http://amawalker.blogspot.fr/2012/08/memorials-pilgrims-who-died-on-camino.html?m=1

Thank you for pointing out this list. I think it would be more useful to help @sillydoll maintain a more general list of all pilgrims who pass away while on the Camino than maintain one here narrowly focused on forum members.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Thank you for pointing out this list. I think it would be more useful to help @sillydoll maintain a more general list of all pilgrims who pass away while on the Camino than maintain one here narrowly focused on forum members.

Room for both maybe? @sillydoll 's a general list, which would not really be what @Al the optimist had in mind, and here forum specific

 

[William Marques]

I am not sure which way I feel about this idea - including forum members only would mean remembering people with whom we had had contact and knew to some extent, opening it up would be more inclusive but mean less to me as I would not recognise most of the people.

Another member who has died was jimkaszynski but he did not die on the Camino so do you leave him out.

The more you think about it the more complicated it becomes.

 

[mountaingoat999]

Al
I think your idea of Memorialzing lost pilgrims is a very respectful idea in the form of a roll call.

Thanks

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

I think it's a grand idea.
I'm a member of the World Association of Christian Radio Amateurs and Listeners, and every year at Conference whoever is leading prayers reads out a list of members who have died. My immediate gut feeling is to limit it to those who have died while walking the camino, and any who have been on this Forum - even if only once: to mention others might be intrusive for their families. But this Forum, to me, is part of my Camino Family.
So a decision might need to be made as to who to include in any list: - those who have died while actually walking the camino, or just those we hear about who have contributed to the forum. It would be nice to be inclusive and have both categories.
I know it means a bit more work for Ivar [sorry Ivar!]
My next planned camino is the Primitivo in May. I hope I'm not on any list until after that one ....
Blessings from Suffolk [UK] ....

 

[Tia Valeria]

Just to add to my previous post after a helpful PM question, and also in reponse to William's.
I think I would include forum members whether they have died on the camino or elswhere and I would also include those who have entered our hearts via the forum who have died on the Camino. This would include both Jim and also Denise without having everyone on Sil's list, most of whom are not known to any of us.
All names could to be submitted to the Moderators for inclusion (or not) and the thread, as I suggested before, kept locked.

 

[jmcarp]

Sillydoll's blog post is an excellent memorial to those who have lost their lives while on the Camino. Perhaps she would be willing to cut and paste that list onto a dedicated memorial thread on this forum.

While many, if not most of those have succumbed to natural causes and few to unfortunate weather events, the one thing that strikes me is the number of pilgrims who have died as a result of traffic-related accidents. Please, please, fellow pilgrims, be vigilant while walking alongside or crossing roads and highways, especially in conditions of limited visibility. Whenever a pilgrim-to-be poses questions on this forum regarding their packing list, perhaps any response should include the reminder to include a bright orange or lime green safety vest to wear when walking under those conditions. Other visibility aids might include wrapping walking sticks with bands of reflective tape, or clipping reflectors onto backpack straps. And of course always walking on the side of the road facing oncoming traffic -- in single file especially on narrow roads with no adjacent shoulder.

 

[ivar]

Dear all,

This is a good idea. I have just created a page (that only I can edit) where we can add the names (and link to their profiles?).

It would be nice if someone could put together a list and send it to me (PM or e-mail) and I will put it up.

Does this sound good?

You get to this new page from the top menu, see screen shot below:



Does this look ok?
Ivar

 

[DeadFred]

Those that have died on their Pilgrimage is my preference for a memorial thread regardless of forum membership . Managing such a list might be tricky but for those that have passed while actively on the Pilgrimage the dedication to remembrance would be very nice . If the idea of placing a memorial here on the forum doesn't work here's a website that could be considered

http://www.findagrave.com

 

[jmcarp]

Dear all,

This is a good idea. I have just created a page (that only I can edit) where we can add the names (and link to their profiles?).

It would be nice if someone could put together a list and send it to me (PM or e-mail) and I will put it up.

Does this sound good?

You get to this new page from the top menu, see screen shot below:

View attachment 21737

Does this look ok?
Ivar

Looks good to me. Thanks, Ivar. Maybe Sillydoll can send her information to you, and future notices can be sent to you for addition to the list.

 

[DurhamParish]

Thanks Ivar.

 

[VNwalking]

Amazing what can happen around here when you go away for 10 or 12 hours!
Good idea Al...and what you've done PDQ looks great, Ivar.
And I concur with this:

I think I would include forum members whether they have died on the camino or elswhere and I would also include those who have entered our hearts via the forum who have died on the Camino. This would include both Jim and also Denise without having everyone on Sil's list, most of whom are not known to any of us.

 

[peregrina2000]

My only quibble would be that I think it would also be nice to remember forum members who have died somewhere other than the Camino. I would have been just as saddened by sagalouts' and Methodist Pilgrim's deaths if they had occurred in another place, and I think we as forum members would want to express our sympathy and keep them in our memory.

 

[dougfitz]

Thank you for pointing out this list. I think it would be more useful to help @sillydoll maintain a more general list of all pilgrims who pass away while on the Camino than maintain one here narrowly focused on forum members.

If this proceeds, which it seems it will, I would prefer it were used to remember forum members who have died having started walking (or riding) their Camino.

 

[DurhamParish]

If this proceeds, which it seems it will, I would prefer it were used to remember forum members who have died having started walking (or riding) their Camino.

But wouldn't that make a pretty inactive thread? We might go years without an entry.

 

[DurhamParish]

Having to wait years for the next pilgrim to die - isn't that a really really GOOD thing!

Actually, I would call that an EXCELLENT thing. But mostly pointless. That's why I think it should be opened up to our Forum Friends that pass from this world on the Camino and off the Camino.

 

[alexwalker]

I like this idea, in whatever form it should take. I would very much like to leave this world suddenly, while on the Camino, walking in the fields I love, and I believe that many more sympathise with that: After all, we then go while doing a dear thing to us. Having said that, I would not mind at all being a part of such a list, but I can afford to wait a few more years before joining it, thank you...

 

[DurhamParish]

DurhamParish - Posting that my opinion is "mostly pointless" doesn't make me respect your opinion any less than i already do.

I'm so sorry that you took what I said in that way, I certainly meant no disrespect.

My point, so it is clear. If this new thread for "Fallen Forum Friends" is for friends that expire on the Camino only, then there will be very few names (not that that's a bad thing). I would much prefer to have a thread where we also remember all our friends that have expired on and off the Camino. I would miss, let's say, Al the optimist, wherever he left this earthly realm from and would love to click on the subject thread to remember him.

And if anyone has any concerns about this thread to remember our "Fallen forum friends" and would not want to be remembered on it, a quick note to Ivar would be all that would be needed.

Again, my apologies for the mis-understanding.

 

[janesplace]

A good idea Al, and kept 'locked' like the forum rules. Methodist Pilgrim is one who comes to mind and more recently Sagalouts. I don't know if it is still possible to search threads posted by those who have died but it would be good if they were kept live/searchable as part of that remembering. Maybe if Ivar thinks a memorial thread is a good idea he could keep their posts 'live' as they are still helpful to future pilgrims.

I agree! Being a newbie and planning my first walk (of more I hope) it would be invaluable to be able to read these old threads.

 

[peregrina2000]

Threads are not deleted when a forum member dies. I think a lot of us have had some pretty bittersweet moments going back and re-reading posts by sagalouts and Methodist Pilgrim.

I do think we should think about robisch's comment -- that there are some people who very much would not want to be on this list. I know that we were contacted by sagalouts son, but that will not always be the case. How do we know if the family of the pilgrim from Canada who died earlier this month wants us to report it or not? Do we have a duty to contact family? How would we do that? No one on the forum knows how to contact my family, for instance. I don't have any proposals, but I think these are things we should think through. Laurie

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I just loked at this thread and then tried to find info on the forum's stats.

I think we have two segments of forum members: "those who own the forum" as was written before, the veteran, staff members, etc., and then those who join for practical/logistical reasons. But I was only able to find who has posted the most and gotten the most likes, and read that the forum has been around for 10+ years, but was not able to find the number of regular members.

I understand that for some this is a real communtity: they have been in contact here for years, through PM, real PM, meetings, etc. For the others, not so much.

I've said it before, and it was deleted, I feel, in other words, that the lines get blurred here between perhaps wanting 'likes', which are counted, vs genuine care.

My personal position is that I would not want people who have no concept of who I am to come on here and earn brownie points pretending to care, wether if I pass, on the C. or not. I beleive it would make those truly greiving irk.

My take is prefering the current list which mentions C.deaths, no matter what the links to,this forum are. Becaise the links to the C. arw trully real. ( And one of my father's friends has died en route).

If somewhere on this site there is a list of members, perhaps a simple asterisk,or cross or what have you next to their list nane would suffice.

 

[VNwalking]

I feel, in other words, that the lines get blurred here between perhaps wanting 'likes', which are counted, vs genuine care.
My personal position is that I would not want people who have no concept of who I am to come on here and earn brownie points pretending to care, wether if I pass, on the C. or not. I beleive it would make those truly greiving irk.

Speaking for myself:
I couldn't care less about the number of likes I have.
But I do care about doing the right thing.
If I post something, I mean it. WYSIWYG. (There are no real brownie points to be had, anyway.)
I do not really know about others here but trust that (mostly) they are also sincere.

At the same time, Anemone, I respect your desire to remain anonymous here should you pass on the way to Santiago--a simple word to Ivar should be sufficient to make sure that happens.

So if anyone else feels the same way, one possibility is that perhaps a field could be added to our personal details--yes, share/no, I want the news of my death to remain private?

Threads are not deleted when a forum member dies. I think a lot of us have had some pretty bittersweet moments going back and re-reading posts by sagalouts and Methodist Pilgrim.

Yes, Laurie. This is a remarkable community.
We do care about each other even if we've never met. Even if we disagree or argue.
Right now, I 'know' several Forum members who are out there on the road, and part of me goes with each one of you.
And when one falters I feel the loss.
So thank you for this idea, Al--and for everyone's input. What finally comes out will be better for it.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Respecting privacy/anonymity is probably fairly easy. Proper names would not be recognised but forum names would. We use the forum name when posting here generally, so Methodist Pilgrim was just that and Sagalouts too. Some put their proper name too so we know Methodist pilgrim was Philip, and his son told us that his father was ian but we would not necessarily recognise those names on a memorial list. Hopefully we will see forum names so that we can recognise who we are remembering with proper names only added as well where already known publicly.
Hope this reads as I mean it to

 

[PEI_Heather]

Threads are not deleted when a forum member dies. I think a lot of us have had some pretty bittersweet moments going back and re-reading posts by sagalouts and Methodist Pilgrim.

I do think we should think about robisch's comment -- that there are some people who very much would not want to be on this list. I know that we were contacted by sagalouts son, but that will not always be the case. How do we know if the family of the pilgrim from Canada who died earlier this month wants us to report it or not? Do we have a duty to contact family? How would we do that? No one on the forum knows how to contact my family, for instance. I don't have any proposals, but I think these are things we should think through. Laurie

The PEI family of John were fine with me telling the forum about him; and actually, one of his daughters wants to come on the forum and read all the condolences sent to her, her mother and the rest of her family. But I understand what you mean, Laurie; a person's death may be a private concern for the family and they may not want it to become public 'news.'

 

[Saint Mike II]

Fellow Forum member Sillydoll
posted such a list earlier this year in her AmaWalker blog.http://amawalker.blogspot.fr/2012/08/memorials-pilgrims-who-died-on-camino.html?m=1

WOW - having read the number of cyclist who were involved in collisions with motor vehicle I realise that my "caution" was well founded (I stayed away from the busy roads whenever possible). Cheers

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

...So if anyone else feels the same way, one possibility is that perhaps a field could be added to our personal details--yes, share/no, I want the news of my death to remain private?

Respecting privacy/anonymity is probably fairly easy. Proper names would not be recognised but forum names would. We use the forum name when posting here generally, so Methodist Pilgrim was just that and Sagalouts too. Some put their proper name too so we know Methodist pilgrim was Philip, and his son told us that his father was ian but we would not necessarily recognise those names on a memorial list. Hopefully we will see forum names so that we can recognise who we are remembering with proper names only added as well where already known publicly.
Hope this reads as I mean it to

Perhaps we can combine these two fine recommendations and add these fields to personal details:

• I would like news of my death to be published on the Forum Y/N
• If Yes, then option to add proper name: A Peregrino

Every club or organisation that I belong to has a memorial list of members who have died, sometimes published in every newsletter along with office bearers etc. They are woven into the fabric of the organisation.

Don't want to frighten off any prospective new members but a dose of one's own mortality does tend to focus the mind on the Camino of Life.

 

[ivar]

Since this is a delicate matter.. I think we need to "err on the side of caution".

Until now, what I have done it to add "RIP [the year]" under the avatar of forum members that we know have passed away (on the trail or not). This way, when we browse the forum... and come across a post by a member that have passed, we see it and can send a thought...

Making this a list that need to be managed, is a good idea.. but thinking it through, it becomes complicated to implement in real life.

So, I think we should just continue to do it as we have done so far... with no central list of passed forum members. I think this is best until we come up with an alternative way to do it that everyone can agree on.

Hope you all understand.

Greetings from sunny Santiago!
Ivar

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Fully understand, Ivar, and agree with your decision. The current practice of putting 'RIP [year]' under the avatar is an appropriate and gentle way to acknowledge a Pilgrim/Forum member's passing.

Thank you for all the effort that you put into this Forum community.