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Time of past OR future Camino
Us:Camino Frances, 2015 Me:Catalan/Aragonese, 2019
I don't understand the purpose of this sign at all.🤔
It is to prevent the wall from looking like this.
1024x768-5210881-torn-wall-paper-poster-texture-old-affiche-wall-advert-wallpaper-portugal-wal...jpg
BTW, when posting pictures to a thread that is going to collect a bunch of them the convention is to post the pictures as thumbnails. It helps the people that have a difficult time downloading and viewing image heavy webpages.
 
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lt56ny

Veteran Member
Time of past OR future Camino
10/22 Aragones/Frances
I am old. While there is some really great artwork and once in a while some witty things written, for the most part when I see graffiti especially on the stone markings on the mileage markers and other posts etc I find they are just an eyesore and destructive. I know lots of others disagree, it is what I think.
 
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lalaone

Member
Time of past OR future Camino
2007
Encouraging a pilgrim to learn some Latin and ponder the Book of Ecclesiastes, through graffiti! Only on the Camino :) Galicia, July 2007
 
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lt56ny

Veteran Member
Time of past OR future Camino
10/22 Aragones/Frances
Encouraging a pilgrim to learn some Latin and ponder the Book of Ecclesiastes, through graffiti! Only on the Camino :) Galicia, July 2007
I am sorry and I commented on this before. I am not sure why names were written on these plaques but I am sure they are important to many people. Time and money was spent on this plaque. Possibly a memorial, I do not know but what has been written here is meaningless and just plain vandalism.
 

lalaone

Member
Time of past OR future Camino
2007
I am sorry and I commented on this before. I am not sure why names were written on these plaques but I am sure they are important to many people. Time and money was spent on this plaque. Possibly a memorial, I do not know but what has been written here is meaningless and just plain vandalism.
I hear you. I actually very much agree. Mea culpa. (I also did not do this graffiti….)

It’s heart-rending to think of disrespect shown to any individuals named, whom I also do not know but were certainly appreciated and loved. My interpretation was that the stone was marked by a sort of “honor roll,” judging by the titles, of eminent and highly ranked people involved with the Camino or with Saint James, seemingly through monetary donations or patronage?

It initially reminded me of the poem Ozymandias. In the context of receiving titles of honor for a spiritual endeavor, I was struck by the strangeness of that situation. Perhaps they never asked for titles or a stone - “let not the left hand know what the right hand is doing.” As a result, I felt that perhaps some of them would enjoyed reading “All is vanity” being written there, temporarily, as graffiti to be scrubbed away on the morrow which, coming full circle, only underscores issues of temporality and eternity?

At least, that was my existential process during the final approach to Santiago. Ordinarily, like you, I would not have liked the graffiti. At the time, however, it felt like being drawn into an important conversation, one I might have missed without some random graffiti maker starting a dialogue both internal and external, perhaps across the ages. The graffiti drew my eye to something that might have been overlooked otherwise.

It does sound a little absurd now, even to myself. Now I see how disrespectfully it could come across, in the image or the retelling. I am very sorry for that and really appreciate your perspective.

As to what makes art versus graffiti, there are great thoughts here already…. Personally, I think of it as being whether it creates meaningful dialogue.

There was a story years ago – perhaps on this very forum – about a woman near Zaragoza restoring an ancient church painting. Some saw it as an act of love and of beauty. Others saw it as a diminishment / vandalization of a prior, superior work of art.

If pressed, I suppose I would say it is human nature to want to leave a physical mark of MEANING. Many might be considered graffiti, many might be considered art. Many inspire pity for our shared human condition and how we cope with our limited time on this earth. That’s just one take, but I’m super sympathetic to different takes as well.
 
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To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
individuals named, whom I also do not know but were certainly appreciated and loved. My interpretation was that the stone was marked by a sort of “honor roll,” judging by the titles, of eminent and highly ranked people involved with the Camino
Just curious: Why has the photo of the 'dolmen' with the list of names disappeared from your post #18? I had a look at it earlier and I recall that I saw the name of Mariano Rajoy Brey on it. It appeared to be a list of the male and female members ("caballeros" and "damas") of the so called Orden del Camino de Santiago which is a somewhat odd organisation, imho. I actually tried to find out when it was created, perhaps it was in 2007 when you took the photo. Their registration number is 2007/19 (153) in the Rexistro de Fundacions de Interese Galego.
 
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lalaone

Member
Time of past OR future Camino
2007
Just curious: Why has the photo of the 'dolmen' with the list of names disappeared from your post #18? I had a look at it earlier and I recall that I saw the name of Mariano Rajoy Brey on it. It appeared to be a list of the male and female members ("caballeros" and "damas") of the so called Orden del Camino de Santiago which is a somewhat odd organisation, imho. I actually tried to find out when it was created, perhaps it was in 2007 when you took the photo. Their registration number is 2007/19 (153) in the Rexistro de Fundacions de Interese Galego.
I removed my photo as I didn't want to be unintentionally offensive.... Was just looking at the graffiti and am very green regarding anything online. Thanks :)
 
Time of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I removed my photo as I didn't want to be unintentionally offensive.... Was just looking at the graffiti and am very green regarding anything online.
I am anything but green regarding anything online ☺️.

I had actually written an earlier comment (don’t know whether you saw it) but then decided that it sounded too harsh and zapped it. I still maintain that this kind of graffiti, like most of the stuff along the Camino Francés, is vandalism but now, in this case and knowing a bit more about the context and background, exceptionally, I wouldn’t label it as brainless vandalism. 😑 😇
 
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I consider any form of additional writing or "art" added to a memorial, plaque, or Camino mojone a form of defacing and vandalism. Most people would not know context and background. I can not imagine any artist makes their piece with the intent of wanting/expecting it to be scribbled on with marker pens or paint.
 

lt56ny

Veteran Member
Time of past OR future Camino
10/22 Aragones/Frances
I hear you. I actually very much agree. Mea culpa. (I also did not do this graffiti….)

It’s heart-rending to think of disrespect shown to any individuals named, whom I also do not know but were certainly appreciated and loved. My interpretation was that the stone was marked by a sort of “honor roll,” judging by the titles, of eminent and highly ranked people involved with the Camino or with Saint James, seemingly through monetary donations or patronage?

It initially reminded me of the poem Ozymandias. In the context of receiving titles of honor for a spiritual endeavor, I was struck by the strangeness of that situation. Perhaps they never asked for titles or a stone - “let not the left hand know what the right hand is doing.” As a result, I felt that perhaps some of them would enjoyed reading “All is vanity” being written there, temporarily, as graffiti to be scrubbed away on the morrow which, coming full circle, only underscores issues of temporality and eternity?

At least, that was my existential process during the final approach to Santiago. Ordinarily, like you, I would not have liked the graffiti. At the time, however, it felt like being drawn into an important conversation, one I might have missed without some random graffiti maker starting a dialogue both internal and external, perhaps across the ages. The graffiti drew my eye to something that might have been overlooked otherwise.

It does sound a little absurd now, even to myself. Now I see how disrespectfully it could come across, in the image or the retelling. I am very sorry for that and really appreciate your perspective.

As to what makes art versus graffiti, there are great thoughts here already…. Personally, I think of it as being whether it creates meaningful dialogue.

There was a story years ago – perhaps on this very forum – about a woman near Zaragoza restoring an ancient church painting. Some saw it as an act of love and of beauty. Others saw it as a diminishment / vandalization of a prior, superior work of art.

If pressed, I suppose I would say it is human nature to want to leave a physical mark of MEANING. Many might be considered graffiti, many might be considered art. Many inspire pity for our shared human condition and how we cope with our limited time on this earth. That’s just one take, but I’m super sympathetic to different takes as well.
There is graffiti that is on walls in cities and towns that is art and there are some great artists famous like Banksy and Basquiat and others I have no idea of their names.. I appreciate your thoughtful answer. I have walked over 6,000 kilometers on camino and have seen lots and lots and lots of graffiti. In my mind 99% of it is garbage or basically little ditties about how wonderful it is to walk or feel. There are lots of tunnels that have lots of statements, political, social and nonsensical. Again what locals write I have no idea of their motivation, angst or anger. But what pilgrims write, like drumming into my head the joys, benefits and superiority of being a vegan (just using this as an example that just came to me) over and over again is again just ego, selfish, judgemental (which so many here rail against) and most of all destructive and have no value as art or as a social statement or something that is passing as a profound or joyous expression if camino. You want to spread joy, do it with your fellow pilgrim or an act of charity. Unfortunately the vast majority is either eye pollution, destruction of property that local taxpayers have paid to make the camino just a little better or easier for a pilgrim, or some memorial or statue that again people paid for because it means something to them, tells a story, is a small keeper of the history of the town or the camino.
You made good points about the restoration and that can be debated but that is not graffiti. That is a question best debated by those who are either art historians, restorers and those that have a spiritual/religious connection with the art in question.
Graffiti is not just something that can be scrubbed away, it almost always leaves a scar. Why should a town be forced to have to scrub away the vandalism, the cost and time involved? Why should locals have to replace markings that have been so written upon/broken and rendered useless by pilgrims? Thanks for writing back with thoughtfulness and buen camino.
 

StuartM

Active Member
Time of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances (2012)
That "Grrrrr" response is nothing about you or that good photo, @Mark Barnes, I just hate the Sharpie culture that has to deface all the mojons (and much else along the way). It's neither clever nor art, but like dogs peeing on posts.

My favorite graffiti is none.
(Self-admitted old curmudgeon...)
I walked ten years ago and I found the graffiti depressing, especially the closer you got to Santiago where it seemed to ramp up. Most of it just made me think "why bother?", it was often badly written, badly spelled rubbish (and I say that as someone who is slightly dyslexic). Very little of it was profound, funny, inspiring or anything remotely positive and just a bit of ego indulgence. Some of it would occasionally be fairly offensive (the odd bits of very racist graffiti here and there are what sticks in my mind).

But there was one thing that I must admit made me smile. Occasionally on a road sign someone had written "STEFANO GOES TO SANTIAGO" in small letters. Once I began noticing it I'd start to look for it and "Stefano" had become a companion. When I'd gone a long way without seeing anything I'd get worried that maybe he hadn't made it or something had happened. And then I'd spot one and feel happy for him. I always wondered about who he was. Was he a few steps ahead of me? Or had he been years ahead of me? Had I shared a room with him or had he walked long before I even considered going?

I never did see a "STEFANO GOT TO SANTIAGO" but I do remember seeing a final tag in the outskirts of Santiago so I guess he made it.
 

xin loi

Active Member
Time of past OR future Camino
Walked May 14, 2014 from St Jean France

starting to walk again August 25, 2016 --SJPDP to Finisterre
Poem
 

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xin loi

Active Member
Time of past OR future Camino
Walked May 14, 2014 from St Jean France

starting to walk again August 25, 2016 --SJPDP to Finisterre
Always liked this one. Was there 2014 and still there in 2016
 

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Mark Barnes

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Frances - September - November (2017)
I would never write on any markers, but
 
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FRM

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Seeing how we aren’t the ones doing the “defacing/criminal act, I see nothing wrong in smiling at the ones that are humorous/witty/or plain old silly.
 

dick bird

Moderator
Staff member
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Plata, Ingles, Madrid, Norte, Primitivo, Invierno, Aragones, Olvidado, Chemin D'Arles
I'm not sure at what point a painting on a wall becomes graffiti, and I'll confess these are not camino related (except one), but they are all on a camino somewhere, and I challenge anyone to take exception to any of these (and there's more where they came from, but they are the pick of the bunch).

P1030669.JPG P1030664.JPG DSC04390.JPG P1020887.JPG P1030012.JPG
 
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