Forum Rules

[Al the optimist]

Ivar has said elsewhere that he has rewriting the forum rules on his to do list (which I am sure is very long), and asked for suggestions. So maybe we can keep all suggestions here? But please can we keep them positive ones, and not make acrimonious comments on other's previous suggestions?
So here goes as a suggestion: Maybe put a time lapse on responses to a thread and flag a thread to the moderators attention if someone posts to it very frequently/above a certain number of times? I know this is a complicated thing to do, but maybe this will stimulate a better idea from someone. So in the spirit of the forum of being an informative and supportive venue - any other ideas fellow pilgrims?

 

[vicrev]

Sorry Al I just put a post to do with this subject on another thread,didn't realise you had started this thread,I have no idea how to transfer it,may be a Moderator can do it ??........Vicrev

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Use punctuation, grammar rules, capital letters, spell check, unsplit infinitives, and complete sentences?

 

[ivar]

I can not move+merge posts from the other thread, so we would have to move posts this "by hand" manually....

I have to leave now for some work.. will be back later...
Ivar

 

[vicrev]

The suggestion I have for what it's worth is to get rid of the " likes", I think it can make some people more competitive & sometimes more outlandish in their statements , this Forum doesn't need a type of reward system.........just my opinion,no doubt lots will disagree,so be it............ .........Vicrev

 

[vicrev]

Crikey Falc,if all those things you suggest,grammer,spelling checks etc become Forum law,that's me outa the Forum ............Vicrev

 

[dougfitz]

I like the idea of the Resources section being a place where commercially oriented posts can be made, but I would like to see commentary on these entries limited to those members who have personally used the goods or services being advertised. If we accept posts promoting products elsewhere in the forum, I would like to see a return to the previous rules about posters having to have made previous contributions, and only having one opportunity to promote if they are posting outside of the Resources section.

I think we should be tolerant of posts from members who don't necessarily write good English. I was toying with the idea of how those who are more skilled writers might offer an editorial service to others who want help, but I don't see how it could be done without removing some of the vibrancy we get from posters.

Not so much a rule, but it would be nice to have a better way of creating a PM from a post so that what essentially might be one-on-one discussions can be initiated directly from a threaded post. This would allow one-on-one discussions to be more easily initiated. This functionality was present in the old forum software, but doesn't appear to be a feature enabled in the current software. If it isn't a feature that has been disabled and cannot be re-instated, perhaps there needs to be a guideline that reflects what might be best discussed privately compared to what is of general value and would best be shared as a post.

In my view the previous rules about religion and politics worked well, but rather than rules, would guidelines be more appropriate?

Regards,

 

[dougfitz]

Use punctuation, grammar rules, capital letters, spell check, unsplit infinitives, and complete sentences?

Do you mean that we should use properly punctuated, correctly capitalised and grammatically correct complete sentences comprising spelling-error free English words? Hard.

 

[Kitsambler]

I rather like the notion of only being able to make one post [Edit: per poster] per thread. It seems to me that the difficulties that have arisen have involved acrimonious exchanges. The idea being to take any one-on-one contest into the PM realm.

Also very short posts tend to be problematic, as people are reactive rather than informative. So maybe a 150-character minimum?

I know there is (was?) a minimum time interval between posts. So I assume that feature is still in place.

 

[TheTinkerBell]

Conversation is the lifeblood of any forum and limiting what a person has to say in any given thread is not a good thing in my eyes. Ivar's call for volunteer Moderators (I presume they will be vetted and selected by him) is the starting point here. This Forum is getting too big for one person alone to regulate/keep an eye on. The Moderators and Ivar should then be entrusted with developing a set of Rules/Guidelines that should be "stickied" at the top of every Forum sub-Section.

This thread of Al's is a very good way for Forum members to feed into the whole process, so it's incumbent on anyone with a positive idea to contribute.

 

[Susannafromsweden]

I rather like the notion of only being able to make one post per thread. It seems to me that the difficulties that have arisen have involved acrimonious exchanges. The idea being to take any one-on-one contest into the PM realm.

Also very short posts tend to be problematic, as people are reactive rather than informative. So maybe a 150-character minimum?

I know there is (was?) a minimum time interval between posts. So I assume that feature is still in place.

I have a question.
Is this thread about real new forum rules or is it a thread where we are just joking, trying to figure out crazy rules?
Because this is a joke, no?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Because this is a joke, no?

I took it as such.

 

[Susannafromsweden]

I took it as such.

Yes it has to be.
If not, it would be rather pointless to ask people, who have written something in a thread, any questions. Because I would get no reply.
Lets see if I can post this....

 

[LTfit]

Well Susanna, we may find this proposal a bit outlandish but I do not believe that it was written in jest.

This is a place of discussion and of sharing which I believe would be compromised if posters were limited to one post per thread or had to submit a certain number characters - more is not necessarily beter.

The guidelines do not appear to be, as such, the problem. We are. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Be helpful.
Be patient.
Be civil.
Be thoughtful.
Be kind.
Be compassionate.

Difficult as it may seem, I believe that we are all up to it

 

[jpflavin1]

I rather like the notion of only being able to make one post per thread. It seems to me that the difficulties that have arisen have involved acrimonious exchanges. The idea being to take any one-on-one contest into the PM realm.

Also very short posts tend to be problematic, as people are reactive rather than informative. So maybe a 150-character minimum?

I know there is (was?) a minimum time interval between posts. So I assume that feature is still in place.

Kitsambler:

I believe I understand the intent of your "one post per thread quote". There are some controversial/confrontational subjects discussed that sometimes gets personal. I believe this is well managed by the moderators.

That said, there are several threads where folks are sharing information, explaining directions or just general discussion on a subject/product etc. I believe some good conversations would be lost with this change.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[peregrina2000]

I rather like the notion of only being able to make one post per thread. It seems to me that the difficulties that have arisen have involved acrimonious exchanges. The idea being to take any one-on-one contest into the PM realm.

Also very short posts tend to be problematic, as people are reactive rather than informative. So maybe a 150-character minimum?

I know there is (was?) a minimum time interval between posts. So I assume that feature is still in place.

Like the others, I thought this suggestion was a joke, but since it appears not to be, I will add my two cents. I think that the disadvantages of a "one post per thread" rule far outweigh the advantage, which, as I take it, is that it makes nasty exchanges impossible. I am currently involved in two never-ending wonderful threads, one on the Puerto de Pajares (in Part 2 now, but surely Part 3 is on its way) and the electric coil thread. Sure, there have been numerous off-track sidebars, a few jokes here and there, a few silly comments, but overall I think that both of these threads have really provided some very good information to a number of people, all without nasty comments or hurt feelings. I don't think there is a way to write a rule that will keep nasty comments off the forum, and as LTfit suggests it's up to us to keep the standards high. I also agree with Joe that the moderators do a great job of cutting nasty comments out and so long as they are happy to continue checking up on us, I think we should leave this aspect of the forum alone.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is a tribute to something that an electric coil can elicit well over 100 comments!

I am waiting for the one on a paper clip...

 

[JohnMcM]

If I, and others, had been limited to one post per thread I doubt very much I would have learned so much from some of the marvellous people on here who offer advice, knowledge, experience and guidance let alone the support they give to others in need during their Camino.

 

[ivar]

Dear all,

I have received several messages from members that are interested in helping out. Thank you!

I will (hopefully in the next few days) have some more moderators ready to go. After "moderator School" they will be ready to go. Then, between us (the moderators) we can put together some new forum rules...

Thank you all for such a good response!
Ivar

 

[peregrina2000]

It is a tribute to something that an electric coil can elicit well over 100 comments!

I am waiting for the one on a paper clip...

Or how about the safety pin?

 

[tyrrek]

I'm not sure it's the rules that need to be amended. It's the spirit of the forum that seems to have taken a bit of a battering recently. If we can get the spirit back the existing rules will be more than adequate. Buen Camino!

 

[C clearly]

I don't really understand what seems to be the problem, as I do not see much "bad" behaviour here on the forum. Some additional moderators might be helpful, but let's not make too many rules that stifle sponteneity, humour and eccentricity - all of which are very evident here, making it an interesting forum. I know of another forum that is so rule-bound it is humourless and stilted. Other forums are cliqueish, but many types of people are welcome here. Let's not change it too much!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Rule 1 - Treat others as you want them to treat you.
Rule 2 - none needed

When moderators see a violation of Rule 1, lock or delete the thread.

 

[vicrev]

Yes Falc,simpler the better , as long as the OFFENDING post is removed first immediatly,not so much lock, or delete the thread,that would be a last resort,maybe a warning could be posted, if things look like getting out of hand,then lock or delete the thread..........Example>>I don't want to dwell on the past,but I have had a few borderline offensive posts in this forum ,one was out & out insulting,the thread was locked down, but the offensive post not removed for a while, even though I had complained a couple of times............having re-read this post it sounds a bit like I am knocking this forum,I can assure you that is not my intention..............input has been asked for & given..............keep smiling..................Vicrev

 

[vicrev]

What about a permanent suggestion box/thread ?...................Vicrev

 

[pnwPilgrim]

Well Susanna, we may find this proposal a bit outlandish but I do not believe that it was written in jest.

This is a place of discussion and of sharing which I believe would be compromised if posters were limited to one post per thread or had to submit a certain number characters - more is not necessarily beter.

The guidelines do not appear to be, as such, the problem. We are. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Be helpful.
Be patient.
Be civil.
Be thoughtful.
Be kind.
Be compassionate.

Difficult as it may seem, I believe that we are all up to it

I particularly like the elegant simplicity of these principles.

I also have major reservations about something as drastic as one post per thread. I agree there is a point where too few people can dominate a thread, but two posts isn't that point. A frequency throttle might be interesting, eg no more than one post per thread per X minutes. This wouldn't prevent constructive participation but would impose cooling off time to hopefully consider ones contributions more thoughtfully.

 

[Kathy F.]

The spirit of the Forum seems to reflect the spirit of the Camino. Most people/posters are caring, intelligent, humorous. Some are snide, selfish, and rude. I think the moderators do a great job of helping people keep their emotions down to a dull roar.
I like the "likes" - it's how I know anyone is reading my stuff!
And my suggestion isn't for a rule, but I wish the software had "spell check." However, I recognize that might be difficult when dealing with so many foreign languages!
Kathy

 

[vicrev]

I think, Footek, most people are caring etc as you say & would not have to worry, or be affected by the rules.......I think rules should be in place to protect people from hurtful,inconsiderate statements........I think ( someone correct me if I'm wrong ) this is called cyber bullying ?..........as for the spellcheck (my spelling,grammer,is pathetic) I think the content of the post is more important.............. ........keep smiling..........Vicrev

 

[Deleted member 3000]

as for the spellcheck (my spelling,grammer,is pathetic)

However, I recognize that might be difficult when dealing with so many foreign languages!

My great uncle, a college professor, once told me that anyone who could not spell a word a couple of ways had no imagination.

I was kidding. Maybe I needed more smilies...

 

[vicrev]

He must have been talking about me ,Falc...............Vicrev.......gonna give you another "like" so Fooberg what ever his name is can keep checking on you......

 

[dougfitz]

And my suggestion isn't for a rule, but I wish the software had "spell check." However, I recognize that might be difficult when dealing with so many foreign languages! Kathy

@FooteK, most common web browsers have a spell checker that can be enabled. I have just checked Opera, Firefox, Chrome, Avant, SeaMonkey and Safari, and they all have this. They also allow user selection of the dictionary language to be used, and all offer a choice of major variants of English (British, US, Australian, Canadian, South African, New Zealand) as well as a host of other languages. I know that there is a spell checker on my Android devices, but I have never really explored it in detail, and I presume there will be something in the various Apple operating systems or browsers, but I haven't checked that.

Regards,

 

[jirit]

@FooteK, most common web browsers have a spell checker that can be enabled. I have just checked Opera, Firefox, Chrome, Avant, SeaMonkey and Safari, and they all have this. They also allow user selection of the dictionary language to be used, and all offer a choice of major variants of English (British, US, Australian, Canadian, South African, New Zealand) as well as a host of other languages. I know that there is a spell checker on my Android devices, but I have never really explored it in detail, and I presume there will be something in the various Apple operating systems or browsers, but I haven't checked that.

Regards,

The spell checkers in the browser only work if you are accessing the forum via the web.

I am not sure what happens when you access the forum via the mobile app, as I am doing so right now.

I suspect it is using Apple's built in iOS system to check the spelling.

 

[lynnejohn]

I believe that civility is the primary guideline we need.
Emoticons - never really liked them, but they are useful to indicate that the post is intended to be humorous (to avoid someone taking offense)
Spelling/grammar - English is not always the poster's first language, so no judgments.

 

[dougfitz]

The spell checkers in the browser only work if you are accessing the forum via the web.

I am not sure what happens when you access the forum via the mobile app, as I am doing so right now.

I suspect it is using Apple's built in iOS system to check the spelling.

When I use the Android app, the native spell checker functionality on the device provides spelling suggestions, whereas on a Windows PC, the browsers identify misspelt words within the text as one is typing.

Regards,

 

[KiwiNomad06]

In the transition to the new forum format, we seem to have lost Ivar's original "motto" for the Forum from the top of each page- "Where past pilgrims share, and future pilgrims learn". Perhaps it could be a useful reminder to have it back. Ivar set this Forum up as a way of people sharing information. There are plenty of other Forums online available for people who want to vent and argue vociferously. One of the strong points of this Forum has always been a more gentle and useful sharing of info and ideas.
Margaret

 

[vicrev]

Well said Margaret,I think you are right,everybody has forgotten that....................Vicrev

 

[stevenjarvis]

Beware over regulation. A the end of the day this is Ivar's game, so we play by Ivar's rules. While there are times when threads are locked and posts removed for no reason that makes sense to me , I have to accept the decision. It seems to work perfectly well. Similarly, if there are individuals that members find offensive, we have a wonderful IGNORE button. I'm sure if more people used it their would be less offense taken ! Having said that members must have the opportunity to confront, challenge, question and debate if they wish.

I agree with dougfitz here " Not so much a rule, but it would be nice to have a better way of creating a PM from a post so that what essentially might be one-on-one discussions can be initiated directly from a threaded post. This would allow one-on-one discussions to be more easily initiated"

Concerning offense and people being offended, I suggest that we be careful about this. We do don't have a right not to be offended. We can all respond if we feel offended.

This might make some of what Al the Optimist called "verbal ping pong" to take place behind closed doors sparing onlookers....


I believe that transparency is the key. Let the light in, let people have the most open environment possible and let the forum decide.

Concerning limiting members to one post per thread....err, no. I for one am happy to talk to myself, and often do. If anyone even looks at the posts, joy is me. Remember we can IGNORE.

 

[Kathy F.]

@FooteK, most common web browsers have a spell checker that can be enabled. I have just checked Opera, Firefox, Chrome, Avant, SeaMonkey and Safari, and they all have this. They also allow user selection of the dictionary language to be used, and all offer a choice of major variants of English (British, US, Australian, Canadian, South African, New Zealand) as well as a host of other languages. I know that there is a spell checker on my Android devices, but I have never really explored it in detail, and I presume there will be something in the various Apple operating systems or browsers, but I haven't checked that.

Regards,

Thanks, Doug! Clearly, I m ciberneticaly-impaired. Altho I use spell chek on my e-mails and dokuments, I nevr knew I culd use it in other progrms. I run Safarie on my PC. If u or anyone ot there has any guidence on how I kan fix it so i cn use it al the tyme, I'd aprecciate it!.
kalthy

 

[vicrev]

I think I need google translate,not spellcheck..........Vicrev

 

[Kathy F.]

The spell checkers in the browser only work if you are accessing the forum via the web.

I am not sure what happens when you access the forum via the mobile app, as I am doing so right now.

I suspect it is using Apple's built in iOS system to check the spelling.

Jirit, my browser allows me to get away with the most atrocious spelling without batting an eye (see my reply to Doug). If you and Doug say there's a way to enable spell check for my replies on this Forum, I'm going to figure it out. In the meantime, my apologies to all who suffer through my typos and poor spelling guesses.
Kathy

 

[MendiWalker]

People generally don´t like rules but rules are important. Without them anarchy would rule ( now if anarchy is good or bad that´s another thread in another forum).

When I came across the forum the one thing that caught my eye was "Where Past Pilgrims share"......" and I thought ," I´ve walked the Camino 3 times so I could share some of my experience"............ "And New Pilgrims Learn." and I thought , " As I´m going to be a new pilgrim on my next Camino I have loads of thing to learn." I think this sentence is the KEY . Sharing all our ideas and experiences about the Camino. People from different countries , different cultures have different points of view.
The other point I think is a must is "RESPECT" without it the forum is useless and loses it purpose.

Buen Camino!

 

[stevenjarvis]

MendiWalker, I agree, broadly speaking, with your sentiments, and particulary the statement, printed in bold at the top of each and every thread,

Where past pilgrims share, and future pilgrims learn ,​

and for the need for respect. That includes respecting differing opinions and the desire of people to express them.

 

[dougfitz]

@FooteK - the Spelling and Grammar selection in Safari is activated as a context menu item in the Safari browser. Hover over the text entry box, and alt-click the mouse (ie use the opposite button to whatever you are using as the main mouse button) and a menu dialogue box should appear with 'Spelling and Grammar' listed with a triangle to its right. Hover over any text with the arrow next to it and a further menu list will appear. In this case, hover over Spelling and Grammar and you will get a sub-menu with the various options, and you can check whether there is an tick symbol adjacent to Check Spelling While Typing selection.

Changing the selected language seems a bit tricky, so there might be a completely different way that I haven' t found. Start by mis-spelling a word, open the context menu, and select Spelling and Grammar. Then select 'Show Spelling and Grammar' and a new form will open up. At the bottom is the language selection.

I am sure there is more, but that should get you started.

Regards,

 

[peregrinacathy]

When I recently returned to this forum after about a year, I noticed a different tone to many of the posts. A bit more sniping, more complaining, maybe just more negativity in general (yes, I know that's a sentence fragment!). Anyway, I thought at first it was my imagination, but now I don't think so. I wonder why. I do trust that the spirit of the Camino will prevail, on this forum, and on all the roads to Santiago.

 

[LTfit]

Welcome back to the forum peregrinacathy. As previously said, the forum is a reflection of the Camino and society. Just as we have seen the amount of pilgrims on the Camino grow, so has this forum grown. And with this growth come new challenges. If we do not like the 'tone' then let's be the ones to turn things around.

 

[hecate105]

I agree with CClearly and Falcon. the forum has seemed totally ok to me. Any arguments seem to get argued out till all participants are exhausted... I haven't experienced any bad behaviour or bullying - but if I did, same as in real world - just ignore 'em...
I don't know how to add smilies (I thought I was a techno-expert just using the forum!) so can everyone just assume that I either have my tongue in my cheek - or my foot in my mouth... thanks!

 

[jpflavin1]

The way to elicit change, imo, is to do so by example. Some ways I have found to address my own shortcomings is to re-read my post before hitting reply. As I read my post, I think about how I would feel receiving that post. Most of the time, imo, I convey my thoughts in a congenial tone. That said, they have not always been received that way. When that approach does not work, I rely on the "Mea Culpa".

Some rules are required in any environment. I remember my Father saying "Good fences make Good neighbors".

That said, I think Ivar and the Moderators have been doing a great job. The rules might need some tweaking but in general the boundaries are good and well supervised.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[FatmaG]

Rule 1 - Treat others as you want them to treat you.
Rule 2 - none needed

When moderators see a violation of Rule 1, lock or delete the thread.

GREAT, Falcon, as so often - or should I say "wise" as so often?


I am really glad to see a number of new names amongst the moderators (congratulations Ivar, to be so efficient).
This board is a very exceptional place, and I could not find many things to approve.
Although I never used it, the "report" button must be to alert one of the moderators because oneself feels offended by a post - and I guess you might explain why.
I am very confident that they will cope with it as best as they can - and that this is some guarantee to prevent 'abuse'


As to the correction of spelling and grammatical faults - please mark the faults in red just as in school.
Good language lessons for free are hard to find and might be appreciable - even if the board might get a little too didactic...




PS after a quick lesson - thank you Dougfitz - some stupid faults corrected. Yes! Some others I decided to keep to maintain the little "exotic" touch of not being as perfect as a native speaker...

 

[dougfitz]

As to the correction of spelling and grammatical faults - please mark the faults in red just as in school.
Good language lessons for free are hard to find and might be appreciable - even if the board might get a little too didactic...

I know that I suggested something similar earlier:

I think we should be tolerant of posts from members who don't necessarily write good English. I was toying with the idea of how those who are more skilled writers might offer an editorial service to others who want help, but I don't see how it could be done without removing some of the vibrancy we get from posters.

I still think my last point holds. If it is done in-line with the thread, it has the potential to ruin the flow of the discussion. @FatmaG, I have sent you a PM demonstrating why I think that.

 

[Aquitaine]

A colleague of mine used to ask "Would you say it face to face? If not, don't say it in an e mail".

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Rules are useful. I get suspicious of those who want to be the ones to enforce them. We have all met that cop who (fill in the anecdote).

 

[stevenjarvis]

Rules are useful. I get suspicious of those who want to be the ones to enforce them. We have all met that cop who (fill in the anecdote).

You, me and Hunter S Thompson !

 

[ivar]

In the transition to the new forum format, we seem to have lost Ivar's original "motto" for the Forum from the top of each page- "Where past pilgrims share, and future pilgrims learn". Perhaps it could be a useful reminder to have it back. Ivar set this Forum up as a way of people sharing information. There are plenty of other Forums online available for people who want to vent and argue vociferously. One of the strong points of this Forum has always been a more gentle and useful sharing of info and ideas.
Margaret

I actually do have it at the top of each page... but not at the very top... it maybe worth to move it up and make it more visible.

Thanks for the tip!
Ivar

 

[KiwiNomad06]

Yes, I noticed it again in the last few days. It's there, but not quite so obvious...
Margaret

 

[KiwiNomad06]

Although I never used it, the "report" button must be to alert one of the moderators because oneself feels offended by a post - and I guess you might explain why.

I use the report button when I see something that looks like a spam post- to sell running shoes or the like usually. I think it helps the moderators who can't have eyes in the back of their heads all the time
Margaret

 

[vicrev]

Rules are useful. I get suspicious of those who want to be the ones to enforce them. We have all met that cop who (fill in the anecdote).

Fooberg

 

[stevenjarvis]

is Fooberg in Norway ?

 

[vicrev]

Falcon is the expert on all to do with Fooberg........................Vicrev