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The big map o the Caminos de Santiago

Galician junta looking for organisation to run its albergues

Magwood

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#1
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A

Anemone del Camino

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#3
The comments at the bottom of the page are interesting too.
Which comments, I didn't see any.

Think the next company who will run these albergues will includes pots pans, dishes and utensils for the fancy kitchens? Can't imagine this will hurt the bottom line. And while they are at it, create different sellos per albergue: credenciales are getting really boring once one enter Galicia ;).
 

Magwood

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#4
I think it is the timescale that is the alarming issue. The current company have resigned from 30 April - I can't see anything new being in place within five weeks. It may mean the albergues will be closed for a while. I couldn't afford to finish my Camino if I had to use private accommodation.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

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#5
I think it is the timescale that is the alarming issue. The current company have resigned from 30 April - I can't see anything new being in place within five weeks. It may mean the albergues will be closed for a while. I couldn't afford to finish my Camino if I had to use private accommodation.
With the 1.4M€ they are offering for 6 months worth I am convinced they will find someone to take over, even if badly.
 

jirit

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#6
Here is a very and poor rough English translation of the spanish text...

The company that controls the Way shelters since 2008 is resigning alleging losses.

While in public shelters Camino de Santiago the first full season occur in the offices of the bureaucracy the flip side of the same story is written. The Xacobeo, 100% owned by the regional government is seeking "urgently" a private company to which to entrust the management of those businesses accommodation, totaling 3,308 beds and 70 albergues that receives 335,000 clientele annually. The company that has managed for the past eight years, Alvite Servicios Integrales, based in Santiago ago, has resigned unable to continue operating under the current conditions. It citing "lack of profitability".

Until 2007, the administration dealt directly take care of the regional network of shelters mounted around the pilgrimage routes that will give Compostela. In January 2008, however, it decided to outsource all these tasks, which basically consists of cleaning the buildings, keep, care for their users and charging the overnight rate of six euros currently. In exchange for about 200,000 euros per month, after open competition between rival, the service then took Alvite, who in 2012 successfully defended victory. Was scheduled during the 2016 Xacobeo licitase again under normal circumstances the management of hostels, but something that did not have forced him to change plans: beyond a few weeks, the concessionaire is not willing to continue .

"We explains a manager of society will fulfill the contract until April 30, but it can not go on another day. Have endured enough, we've gone as far as we could get. [...] We're losing money every month. " An alleged deficit attributed to "gradually have been added management costs were not initially budgeted."

With that ultimatum on the table, the regional government has chosen to react on two fronts: in the medium term, preparing the rules of a competition of companies that will allow choose new contractor for two years extendable to four, short, covering the gap fichando the coming months handpicking a company to replace Alvite.

For a maximum of 26 weeks of work, the chosen firm will charge a cap of 1.14 million plus VAT.

This is a very large sum to arrange it through negotiations without advertising.Hence the Xacobeo has exercised extraordinary clause E of Article 170 of the Lei of public sector contracts. It is a provision that allows to skip the conventional procedure 'where an urgency resulting from unforeseeable by the contracting authority and not attributable to the same events, demand a prompt execution of the contract can not be achieved by "other formulas. "To guarantee a concorrência", however, request offers to "a minimum" of four operators.

Reopening the establishment of Verin and investment of seven million two routes

After months of renovations valued at 142,000 euros, reopened to the public on Tuesday, one of the shelters that make up the regional network of the Camino de Santiago: the Casa do Asistente, in Verin. The vice president of the Xunta, Alfonso Rueda, it augured for this Easter a "massive influx" of pilgrims. In Santiago, the Regional Minister of Culture and director of the Tourism Axencia announced that departments headed by both allocated seven million to several improvements in the original routes and the North, declared World Heritage in 2015.

La Voz de Galicia
 
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Magwood

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#7
Thanks for posting @jirit. I would have thought this thread would have received more attention as it seems to me to be a big deal for anyone walking towards Santiago in the next few weeks. Do you have any further information @ivar?
 

nidarosa

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Yes please!
#8
I am very interested to hear what happens so I have clicked the 'Watch Thread' at the top right hand side. We will be there in four weeks and I do hope it will have sorted itself out by then, one way or another.
 

Angie94

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#9
Thanks for posting @jirit. I would have thought this thread would have received more attention as it seems to me to be a big deal for anyone walking towards Santiago in the next few weeks. Do you have any further information @ivar?
I think it is an important thread but when I first opened it I quickly realized it was in Spanish and I couldn't read it. I was getting ready to e-mail it to my brother who is fluent and have him translate it for me, but when I came back to this thread I saw where it has been translated. (than you Jirit)
Thanks Magwood for bringing this issue to our attention! I am fairly new to this forum so I don't know exactly what all this is going to mean for us future pilgrims, but if anyone can shed some more light on the subject it would be greatly appreciated. I walk my 1st camino in May/June of this year.
 

jirit

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#10
I guess "economic reality" is starting to settle in.

By this I mean, unless the albergues on the camino are run by volunteers it is difficult for any organization (private or public) to operate all 70 albergues and financial break-even (let alone even make a profit) if the average bed rate is only 6 euro per night.

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...e-red-oficial-gallega/0003_201603P24C1994.htm

It is important to also remember that the bed rate of 6 euro per night barely covers daily operational costs and probably not even maintenance, and periodic infrastructure expenditures must be covered by the local or state governments (i.e. the EU)
 

jirit

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#11
What is most interesting is the new offer is actually lower than the current offer.

For a 26 week period the new offer is 1.14 million euro.

Under the current agreement the current operator gets 200,000 per month or 1.20 million euro

Under the provision of the regulation the offer and tender must be received four operators before it can be accepted

I wonder how successful the El Xacobeo will be in securing a replacement operator?
 
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Devon Mike

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#12
Which comments, I didn't see any.

Think the next company who will run these albergues will includes pots pans, dishes and utensils for the fancy kitchens? Can't imagine this will hurt the bottom line. And while they are at it, create different sellos per albergue: credenciales are getting really boring once one enter Galicia ;).
I was told a couple of years ago that the kitchen equipment was removed from the Xunta Albergues because local businesses wanted to encourage pilgrims to use their restaurants etc and not to prepare their own food. We may be pilgrims rather than tourists but in many places we are treated like tourists by the money grabbers.
 
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#13
I guess "economic reality" is starting to settle in.

By this I mean, unless the albergues on the camino are run by volunteers it is difficult for any organization (private or public) to operate all 70 albergues and financial break-even (let alone even make a profit) if the average bed rate is only 6 euro per night.

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...e-red-oficial-gallega/0003_201603P24C1994.htm

It is important to also remember that the bed rate of 6 euro per night barely covers daily operational costs and probably not even maintenance, and periodic infrastructure expenditures must be covered by the local or state governments (i.e. the EU)
As I recall, the nightly rate in private alburgues in Galicia in 2013 when I walked was 8 to 12 euros per night per bed. Even given the higher profit margin demanded by a private enterprise vs a government enterprise (even a contracted one), it's not hard to see how the Xunta-operated albergues barely get by. Looking at this from an admittedly American sense of capitalism, raising the nightly rate just to the low end of the average rate for a private albergue would generate €670,000 in additional revenue based on the stated clientele, and adding another €1 per night would boost it to more than 1 million euros. That raises two questions: 1) would that be enough to make operation of the 70 albergues at least a break-even proposition, and 2) would the private alburgues raise their rates in response, seeing a chance to further increase their profits. The latter, of course, might result in more pilgrims seeking beds in the "cheaper" Xunta albergues, which would both put more demand on the Xunta albergues while at the same time having the potential side effect of bringing the profits of the private albergues back down to the pre-rate increase levels due to a drop-off in beds rented.

If anyone has more current rates that would make my equations more accurate, it would be interesting to see if my line of thought still makes sense.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

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#14
What is most interesting is the new offer is actually lower than the current offer.

For a 26 week period the new offer is 1.14 million euro.

Under the current agreement the current operator gets 200,000 per month or 1.20 million euro

Under the provision of the regulation the offer and tender must be received four operators before it can be accepted

I wonder how successful the El Xacobeo will be in securing a replacement operator?
Not quite correct.
"Se trata de una suma muy alta como para concertarla por la vía negociada sin publicidad. De ahí que el Xacobeo se haya acogido extraordinariamente a la cláusula E del artículo 170 de la Lei de Contratos del Sector Público. Es una disposición que permite saltarse el procedimiento convencional «cuando una imperiosa urgencia, resultante de acontecimientos imprevisibles para el órgano de contratación y no imputables al mismo, demande una pronta ejecución del contrato que no pueda lograrse mediante» otras fórmulas. «Para garantir a concorrencia», no obstante, solicitará ofertas a «un mínimo» de cuatro operadores del sector."

First, this deal is for a maximum of 26 weeks. Also, because this is considered an emergency, the Xunta can use article 170 bla bla bla that allows it to skip the traditional process, but to guarantee a competitive process the Xunta has none the less decided to ask for at least 4 bids.
 

jirit

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#15
Not quite correct.
"Se trata de una suma muy alta como para concertarla por la vía negociada sin publicidad. De ahí que el Xacobeo se haya acogido extraordinariamente a la cláusula E del artículo 170 de la Lei de Contratos del Sector Público. Es una disposición que permite saltarse el procedimiento convencional «cuando una imperiosa urgencia, resultante de acontecimientos imprevisibles para el órgano de contratación y no imputables al mismo, demande una pronta ejecución del contrato que no pueda lograrse mediante» otras fórmulas. «Para garantir a concorrencia», no obstante, solicitará ofertas a «un mínimo» de cuatro operadores del sector."

First, this deal is for a maximum of 26 weeks. Also, because this is considered an emergency, the Xunta can use article 170 bla bla bla that allows it to skip the traditional process, but to guarantee a competitive process the Xunta has none the less decided to ask for at least 4 bids.
I guess I thought wrote this. The Xunta must ask and receive four competing bids as per article 170.

Yes the initial deal is only for 26 weeks ( 6 months ) and as an emergency deal, I thought it would be higher in order to secure an offer
(1.14 million euro vs (200 euro/month times 6 months or 26 weeks= 1.2 million))

I doubt many operators will jump at a deal that pays less and is only for the next 6 months.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

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#16
I guess I thought wrote this. The Xunta must ask and receive four competing bids as per article 170.

Yes the initial deal is only for 26 weeks ( 6 months ) and as an emergency deal, I thought it would be higher in order to secure an offer
(1.14 million euro vs (200 euro/month times 6 months or 26 weeks= 1.2 million))

I doubt many operators will jump at a deal that pays less and is only for the next 6 months.
It doesn't have to ask for 4 bids, it has decided to.
 
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cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
#19
As I recall, the nightly rate in private alburgues in Galicia in 2013 when I walked was 8 to 12 euros per night per bed. Even given the higher profit margin demanded by a private enterprise vs a government enterprise (even a contracted one), it's not hard to see how the Xunta-operated albergues barely get by. Looking at this from an admittedly American sense of capitalism, raising the nightly rate just to the low end of the average rate for a private albergue would generate €670,000 in additional revenue based on the stated clientele, and adding another €1 per night would boost it to more than 1 million euros. If anyone has more current rates that would make my equations more accurate, it would be interesting to see if my line of thought still makes sense.
Thanks Jim - you raise a number of important questions/issues. I appreciate that there are a number of "pilgrims" who cannot afford the private rates, but how many of these offered to do some voluntary work - sweeping the floors, picking up rubbish? I understand the concept of "donativo" but that does not equate to paying significantly less that one pays at other establishments. Yes a pilgrim is told to "pay what you can afford" or "what you think is sufficient". If you can afford E10 then that is what you should contribute. The cost of operating the Xunta-albergues should not be left exclusively to the tax-payers of Galicia, even if we pilgrims do contribute to the economy by eating in cafes, drinking in bars, buying food at the shops. (The cost of managing the provincial and national unemployment is a big enough drag on their economy - imho).

For a number of reasons I used very few of the "donativo" albergues in Galicia - the private ones fitted my nightly stops better, but those I did stay at, I asked around and contributed what "was recommended/suggested" by other pilgrims. I think it was sufficient! (No I will not say here how much). So I suppose what I am trying to say, and what I think Jim was implying is - put one more Euro in the donation box than did last time or what had originally intended to donate. (I hope this is correct Jim!!)
 
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Magwood

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#20
The Junta albergues in Galicia are not donativo, there is a standard charge throughout of 6 euros, which is very low considering the standard of the albergues I have stayed in on the camino Portuguese and Sanabres (often beautifully restored historic buildings) and the fact that they provide a mattress and pillow cover.

I hadn't previously realised, or even thought about, how these albergues were managed. But on a couple occasions it seemed to me that the receptionist in these lovely places (couldn't be classified as hospitalera as the attitude was one of total lack of care) was only interested in laying down rules and just doing her job. Now I understand why.

I agree, that an increased charge would be acceptable to almost all pilgrims and would perhaps make the prospect of taking on this huge contract at short notice more attractive.

I am mostly concerned with the very short timescale of the tendering process - although if the new company could keep on existing staff it would make the transition easier all round. I will be entering Galicia towards the middle of May and very much hope that the junta albergues will be open or that there will be private albergue alternatives, as I just could not afford to stay in hostels or hotels even for a couple of nights. I guess I shall just have to wait and see what the situation is when I get there.

I am not really comfortable with, and don't really understand, the 'donativo' system. If a payment is expected, there should be some guidance as to what that payment should be. If someone genuinely cannot afford to pay, then I am sure they are well used to asking for an exception to be made. I always 'donate' what I consider to be reasonable - an average of what I pay elsewhere.
 
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#21
Back in the "Dark Ages" when I first walked the CF, ie 2004, the Xunta albergues were free. Over time first a price of 3 euros was charged and later 6 euros. Surely a charge of 10 euros would be appropriate for 2016 especially if such a charge would keep the service operating.
 
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Magwood

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#22
I wonder if the Junta ever make a survey of albergue users, asking if they would be prepared/happy to pay more. Or if they are even aware of how the user's appreciate their service.
 
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#23
I too would be willing to pay more, just for having a roof over my head at a charge which is possible for me to pay. But I was not impressed with the either the architecture or the service in the Xunta albergues and I shall certainly try to avoid them in future if there is anything else available. As a vegetarian, I found it impossible to cook in those albergues and just about as impossible to buy anything to eat in the single restaurant in a rural area which took advantage of the guaranteed pilgrim customers to provide very limited hours and no choice of food. Except in high season, I think that Xunta albergues can only be relied on for the bed, and even there, I was nearly obliged to sleep in the woods in the rain because a Xunta albergue decided to close when the two private albergues in the area were closing for the season, even though the Xunta albergue was supposedly open year round. My opinion of Xunta albergues as I experienced them is simple: "Beggars can't be choosers."
 

jirit

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#24
Another interesting titbit of financial information

The current operator receives 1.2 million = 200 euro per month for six months, but el Xacobeo receives approx. 2.0 million euro in revenues for the same time period. The difference of 800,000 euro represents the operating profit for el Xacobeo (335,000 pilgrims * 6 euro per night less the 1.2 million fee).

So while the operator is arguing that it is not covering their costs, el Xacobeo is making a profit.

I suspect the nightly rate will need to rise to 7 - 8 euro per night to make the new operator whole again. Major capital costs are probably beyond the capability of the el Xacobeo, and would need to be financed by EU funds as evidenced by the amount of money that was spent on the recent renovation of the alberque in the news article.

I suspect the price elasticity of demand is near zero for beds, so a price increase of 33%, will have little impact on demand

If I was the el Xacobeo, I would be thinking along these lines. If I was the operator I would demanding this too.
 
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SYates

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#25
Back in the "Dark Ages" when I first walked the CF, ie 2004, the Xunta albergues were free. ...
Even then there were donativo, not free ;-)

I wonder if they would 'rent out' the albergues on a one-to-one base like the Junta in Extremadura does with some of theirs, if that would be a better option? Would certainly lead to more 'personalized' albergues ... Buen Camino, SY

PS I realize that this wouldn't work out in the short timeframe available, but as a longterm option ...
 

jirit

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#26
Found a better English translation...

The Board of Galicia is looking for a new manager for 70 public hostels for pilgrims to Santiago de Compostela. The company that controls the shelters, Alvite Servicios Integrales, is delivering management, citing continued losses since 2008. The news was released on this day 23 by the newspaper La Voz de Galicia.

Public Hostels Network was established in 1993 and now reaches 70 centers and 3,308 beds. The system takes as its model the network of medieval hospitals that met the basic needs of the pilgrims, and it was managed by monastic orders, military, or episcopal initiative.

The Xacobeo is an institution owned 100% by the Galician regional government, but the management of hostels is delivered to private companies since 2008, dealing with an estimated annual accommodation for 335,000 people.

The management of a hostel is to clean the buildings, keep, care for your users and charge a fee for overnight, whose maximum is six euros. The public bidding reaches 200,000 euros a month, but the dealership Alvite, who had again won the tender for 2016 announced that it is no longer willing to continue.


Hostel Verin (Photo: Xunta de Galicia)

With this ultimatum on the table, the regional government decided to respond on two fronts: in the medium term, preparing the rules of a new bidding companies will choose new contractor for two years extendable to four. The chosen company will charge a limit of 1.14 million for management, plus VAT.

The Board of Galicia was forced to use a special clause in the public procurement Act (clause and Article 170).This is a provision that allows you to bypass the conventional procedure, where a resulting urgency of unpredictability by the contracting authority. To ensure competition, however, the tender must be opened at least four operators.

One of the shelters that make up the regional network of the Camino de Santiago, the Assistant House in Verin, reopened to the public this week after months of renovation works, worth 142,000 euros. Vice President of the Board, Alfonso Rueda, told La Voz de Galicia, announced for this Easter a 'mass influx' of the pilgrims.

http://diario560.pt/2016/03/23/rede-de-albergues-aos-peregrinos-de-santiago-sem-gestao/
 

MaidinBham

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#27
Oh dear, will I have to make U-turn in Tui?!
I suppose it was only a matter of time before things start to change on the Camino.
I did find some of the commentary in the article about pilgrims being subsidized by the tax-dollars of locals, a little stinging. I mean, Galacia, the tourist industry, Spain, the Xunta, the EU created this "product", and now it appears that they are having difficulty delivering it. I think it points to questions on how best to sustain and preserve the Camino, without having negative impact on those involved. I do think the cost of albergues will go up,and how could it not, with the poor economy, limited resources and unemployment in Spain ~ 20%. I just hope the spirit of the Camino will never die amid the noise of too many cash registers!
 

jirit

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#28
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MaidinBham

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#29
It seems as if the Galician government has miscalculated number of pilgrims on El Camino. Despite the fact that they have been promoting route from Sarria for several years! The fact that they privatized the janitorial and management of some albergues, and the commercialization of last 100 km, has I believe, not helped to sustain and preserve the Camino. I believe I read somewhere that there are laws written by Galacian government, that state El Camino should not be viewed as a commercial enterprise. But perhaps this is what is has become. I do think everyone is entitled to a living wage, but a private company that is contracted to maintain albergues do not have the heart of a hospitalero. I dont need much - prices will go up, and that is okay - I just hope they keep it simple, and try to retain as much of a traditional albergue as possible.
I think this thread ties in to the "why change 100km rule" thread:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...m-why-change-the-100-km-rule-to-300-km.39220/
And I think that OP @Rebekah Scott and the FICS organization make some good points such as changing management to Culture & Heritage rather than tourism industry.

Janice
 

Tia Valeria

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#30
Google Translation:-

Sociedade Anonima of Xestión do Plan Xacobeo, 100% public, raised last year in its shelters, six euros per bed per day, a record amount of two million. Half of that box, however, made only 13 of the 69 properties that make up the regional network of shelters Camino de Santiago. Both data can be extracted from an official document prepared by the regional government to contract with "extreme urgency" a private company to manage its business accommodation for pilgrims, as the current concessionaire of the service, claiming losses, has given up making from April 30.
The Galician government, which handles the process with opacity, hastens the time to close the relay between companies.

The aforementioned report contains figures that with this level of detail, the Administration had never released. Can extract several conclusions about the operation of the shelter system. For example, it is deficient for the coffers of the community.
">Because the average monthly income barely exceeds 167,000 euros, while recurrent costs amount to 230,000 management, energy and water outside receipts.

The dossier also notes that success is far neighborhoods in the Jacobean routes. During 2015 they slept 166,042 people in 56 establishments, when the remaining 13 buildings made 168,933 overnight. That is, 18.8% of the centers contributed towards one in two users. Topping the ranking of O Cebreiro (22,177 customers), Arca-O Pino (19,976), Monte do Gozo (17,545), Portomarín (17,073), Arzúa (12,444), Triacastela (11,548), Melide (11,538), Palas de Rei (11,106), Ribadiso (10,982), Pontevedra (10,589), Sarria (8,067), Padron (8,030) and Redondela (7,858).
At the opposite pole, close the ourensanos Verin, Viladerrei (Trasmiras) and Sandiás, with, respectively, 408, 135 and 65 guests.

At its top, the classification changes if ordered in relative terms, taking into account not only the volume housed, but also the capacity of each venue. By performing this operation follows that, in the overall exercise, only 12 businesses exceeded 50% level of occupation of places. They did Palas de Rei (50.71%), the Bruma (50.96%), the Mos (51.03%), the Ribadeo (51.78%), the Pontevedra (51, 81%), the Fisterra (55.78%), the Triacastela (56.50%), the O Cebreiro (57.32%), the Negreira (60.16%), the de Sarria (61 , 39%), the Redondela (63.32%) and, above all, Arzúa (68.19%).

The document also reinforces the need to try to rearrange the flow of pilgrims between different roads to give Compostela. Not surprisingly, only one of them, the French, concentrated 56.3% of the 334,975 overnight stays by pilgrims in 2015, compared with 14.7% in the Portuguese, 7% in the North, 6,
">9% in the Fisterra-Muxía, 6.2% in the Via de la Plata, 5.4% in the Primitivo and 3.5% in English.

Also, the official numbers reflect a great seasonality of demand. At some points, the network of shelters falls short in summer and long in the other stations. The situation of the hostel Cebreiro illustrates what happens in a majority: in June, July, August and September, on average, each day 102 of its 106 beds are filled, although January to May and October to December are free 66

Since its privatization in 2008, management has been commissioning establishments Alvite Servicios Integrales, located in the Galician capital. In 26 of them assigned to concellos and others report only deals with the pilgrims, collection and seal credentials and user fees.
With our own staff, in the remaining 43 also assumes cleaning supplies and pillows mattress covers, toilet paper replacement and maintenance of green areas.

Within a couple of weeks, for six months and change a cap of 1,383,824 euros, all these roles must absorb another company that's Xacobeo, citing "extreme urgency resulting from unforeseeable events" has decided to select by way negotiated without advertising. ">When asked about it, the Xunta refuses "at this time of the procedure 'to clarify what potential awardees requested budget.

The arrival of pilgrims to Santiago is increasing almost 11% in 2016

The arrival of pilgrims to Compostela continues to rise above expected. Between January 1 and April 11 they completed the Camino de Santiago 18,762. It is according to data released Tuesday by the office dealing receiving the pilgrims, are 10.9% higher than those recorded in the same dates of 2015 (16,917) and 5.5% less than recorded in the same period of the saint 2010 (19,851). And that the statistics only include those who, "with Christian sense, if only in an attitude of search" reach the tomb of the Apostle having covered at least the last hundred kilometers of the route on foot or on a horse and also to those who do after completing a bike, at least, the last 200.

Keeping the demand in the current rate of growth, according to estimates by the regional government, over the coming Jubilee year (2021) amount to 464,000 pilgrims who landed in Santiago, compared with 272,135 last Xacobeo.
According to the same sources, the pilgrims spend in Galicia 655.2 million euros in the next seven-year period.
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
#31
Hot water. electricity, cleaning all have to be paid for somehow! even if the hospitaleros are volunteers. What do the pivate albergues charge now? - to give a comparison.
 

MaidinBham

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances SJPP to Muxia, April (2014)
Camino Portuguese Lisbon>Santiago, April/May (2016)
#32
I don't quite understand why you find the commentary stinging. It does cost money to subsidize the camino infrastructure.

I happened to come across an article about the small community of Valdeviejas and their municipal albergue where it says that the local administration invested 12.000 EUR of their own funds for renovation work including installing a kitchen for pilgrims and that local administration could not build another albergue for the time being as they are no longer entitled to a subvention of 200.000 EUR previously granted under the EU LEADER program (note to moderators: delete my comment by all means if you consider it as "political stuff". I consider it as information and it does pilgrims who are using the infrastructure no harm to be made aware of it).
Hi,
Yes, I realize maintaining and sustaining Camino cost money. It is subsidized not just by Galacia government, but the other autonomous governments throughout Spain, and governments throughout EU as your above article points out. But, the comment I was referring to really does not address problems Camino is facing. The comment to me, just sings of the comments like "the pilgrims are responsible for the bed bug problem"!
I realize we are long past days of traditional Camino and changes must be made, more resources found, in a country that is still suffering from economic recession. I just hope El Camino does not become "lost" in transition.
In the USA the state of Utah promoted "the Mighty Five" - 5 National Parks, a couple of years ago. It was a huge success, BUT, it now it takes a couple of hours to even get into the parks because traffic is backed up for miles! Then it takes a couple of hours to find a parking space! All for (in a lot of visitors) a selfie in front of one on the arches of Arches National Park. Last year on Memorial Day, they had to close the park because traffic was backed up for miles, and they just could not handle the volume. Now they are promoting "The Mighty Road" - I guess it leads in opposite direction from The Big Five?!
Buen Camino,

Janice
 

jirit

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2007,
Via Francigena Italy, 2008,
Jakobsweg Austria 2010,
Camino Frances 2011,
Le Puy to Lourdes 2012,
Via de la Plata 2013,
Future:
Ökumenischer (Via Regia), Germany,
Lycian Way, Turkey
#33
Hi,
Yes, I realize maintaining and sustaining Camino cost money. It is subsidized not just by Galacia government, but the other autonomous governments throughout Spain, and governments throughout EU as your above article points out. But, the comment I was referring to really does not address problems Camino is facing. The comment to me, just sings of the comments like "the pilgrims are responsible for the bed bug problem"!
I realize we are long past days of traditional Camino and changes must be made, more resources found, in a country that is still suffering from economic recession. I just hope El Camino does not become "lost" in transition.
In the USA the state of Utah promoted "the Mighty Five" - 5 National Parks, a couple of years ago. It was a huge success, BUT, it now it takes a couple of hours to even get into the parks because traffic is backed up for miles! Then it takes a couple of hours to find a parking space! All for (in a lot of visitors) a selfie in front of one on the arches of Arches National Park. Last year on Memorial Day, they had to close the park because traffic was backed up for miles, and they just could not handle the volume. Now they are promoting "The Mighty Road" - I guess it leads in opposite direction from The Big Five?!
Buen Camino,

Janice
About 10 years ago, in the month on May, my wife and I spent a month, doing the Big Circle Route, visiting the various state and national parks of Arizona, Utah, and Nevada: the Grand Canyon, Arches, Canyon lands, Bryce, etc.

Never once were we faced with long lines up, crowds and heavy traffic. Most of the time we were by ourselves, exploring the region like we were early explorers of days long past. We even camped in a remote section of the Valley of the Gods in Utah. Not a soul was around.

I guess we can count our blessings we did it then.
 

jirit

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2007,
Via Francigena Italy, 2008,
Jakobsweg Austria 2010,
Camino Frances 2011,
Le Puy to Lourdes 2012,
Via de la Plata 2013,
Future:
Ökumenischer (Via Regia), Germany,
Lycian Way, Turkey
#34
Has anybody read or heard about the current status of the 69 albergues in Galicia ?

If I understand correctly the current operator was due to finish their contract at the end of April and the authorities did not have a replacement.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
#35
Has anybody read or heard about the current status of the 69 albergues in Galicia ?

If I understand correctly the current operator was due to finish their contract at the end of April and the authorities did not have a replacement.
Camino gossip seems to think this is a ploy to privitise to friends, after building and injecting capital. What do I know?
 

Tincatinker

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Lots ;0)
#36
I guess the Albergues are open. We have heard nothing to the contrary. Who-ever is running them at the moment is presumably keeping the shower water hot-ish and the kitchens devoid of equipment.

Camino gossip is probably of the same quality as local gossip but without the benefit of local knowledge. The €conomics have been discussed in other threads but I know how my parish council regard running discount accommodation for passing tourists... thats why our youth hostel is closing. And I don't think any of my friends would be very grateful if I signed them off on a seriously loss-making proposition on a 5 year contract.

The old adage "If you want to make a small fortune on the Camino, start with a large one..." applies every time to every institutional structure. And if you don't believe me ask the Templars how its going.
 

Magwood

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (15 April 2013)
Camino Portuguese (1 May 2014)
Camino Mozárabe from Málaga (8 April 2015)
Camino del Norte & Camino Ingles (April 2016)
#37
The albergue in Ribadeo was operating as normal yesterday.
 
#38
Take it pilgrims have been staying in the Albergues in Tui, O'Porrino, Redondela, Pontevedra, Padron , Briallos ( ? ) Teo ? Since this calamitous announcement ?
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Inglés 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#39
I stayed in Xunta albergues this spring on the Sanabres and all was working well by Xunta albergue standards ;-) Buen Camino, SY
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
#40
Rumor has it this is a ploy to have goverment funds used to build a valuable ressource (the albergues) and then sell it off to friends of the system for centimos on the Euro after it is announced that things are nit doing well. Time will tell I suppose.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Inglés 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#41
Rumor has it this is a ploy to have goverment funds used to build a valuable ressource (the albergues) and then sell it off to friends of the system for centimos on the Euro after it is announced that things are nit doing well. Time will tell I suppose.
Can you provide a reliable source for this claim/rumour? SY
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Inglés 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#44
I don't know what you would qualify as reliable source so I will stick to a number of hospies along the Camino.
Which, most likely, translates to interested people musing about what is going on and developing some interesting theories on the way ;-) Buen Camino, SY
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
#46
Did I say it was a rumour, or did I say it was a rumour? Because I don't recall including a refernce in my post as a footnote. Then again, many those actually living on the Camino and not just touristing on it and not speaking the language actually have a better sense of local politics and what is reported in the local news.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Inglés 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#47
Did I say it was a rumour, or did I say it was a rumour? Because I don't recall including a refernce in my post as a footnote. Then again, many those actually living on the Camino and not just touristing on it and not speaking the language actually have a better sense of local politics and what is reported in the local news.
You are still not quoting any source, you are just referring to 'somebody somewhere that knows something'. BTW I have lived on the way, am fluent in Spanish and understand local politics/sensibilities ... SY
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#49
Florentino Perez? Really? From football to pilgrims and all in between :D

The article says they will open three new albergues.
In Miño: but there already is Xunta albergue???
In Xinzo de Limia: nice to have another albergue on the south Sanabres route through Verin and Allariz.
In A Fonsagrada: why opening an albergue in a town with 56 beds in two already existing albergues (private though) when other routes would need it maybe even more. Invierno comes to mind. Or Sigueiro on Ingles.

And there will be no cuttlery etc. in those superb kitchens even if Florentino Perez is taking over I guess ;)
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
#51
The article says they will open three new albergues.
In Miño: but there already is Xunta albergue???
I think that this is the full address for one of two new albergues.
Xinzo de Limia, Miño and not the Miño on the Camino Inglés.
Clarification please......
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#52
I think that this is the full address for one of two new albergues.
Xinzo de Limia, Miño and not the Miño on the Camino Inglés.
Clarification please......
Don't think so because "full address" for X.deL. is Xinzo de Limia, Ourense.
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
#53
Don't think so because "full address" for X.deL. is Xinzo de Limia, Ourense.
Xinzo de Limia (town), Miño (municipality), Ourense (province) - according to Wikipedia, so it seems to be one place. I found the reference easily last night but have struggled to find the link today. If I do I will edit it in. I presume it is named for the river Miño.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo June 2013
SJPP - Logroño June 2014
Ingles July2016
#54
Xinzo de Limia (town), Miño (municipality), Ourense (province) - according to Wikipedia, so it seems to be one place. I found the reference easily last night but have struggled to find the link today. If I do I will edit it in. I presume it is named for the river Miño.
I din´t find any "Miño" included in the Xinzo municipality.
I think the Miño in the news is the one on the Camino Inglés, But as K1 said there is already an albergue in Miño. There must be a mistake.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#56
The albergues in this part of Galicia ie near to Pedrouzo/Santiago are still open. This report is surprising we have heard nothing on the local grapevine.
I first heard the rumour about the current management of the Xunta refugios being unhappy with revenue and thinking about not renewing their license when I was last there two years ago ...

EDIT -- oh, I see from the article that last time management switched hands was two years ago ... LOL :p
 
Last edited:

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#57
Xinzo de Limia (town), Miño (municipality), Ourense (province) - according to Wikipedia
Xinzo de Limia, Miño and A Fonsagrada are three different places.

Xinzo de Limia is on the Via de la Plata and up from one branch of the Portuguese Way

Miño is near Ferrol up on the Inglès

A Fonsagrada is north-east of Lugo on the Primitivo

The article says that the concession will let them build up to 10 other new refugios over the two years
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#58
Xinzo de Limia, Miño and A Fonsagrada are three different places.

Xinzo de Limia is on the Via de la Plata and up from one branch of the Portuguese Way

Miño is near Ferrol up on the Inglès

A Fonsagrada is north-east of Lugo on the Primitivo

The article says that the concession will let them build up to 10 other new refugios over the two years
Yep, @JabbaPapa , all that was already said.

But just to add, Xinzo de Limia is actually on three routes:
- South branch of Sanabres (left turn after A Gudina)
- Caminho Portugues Interior (from Viseu) as you've mentioned and
- Portugues branch of Via de la Plata (left turn after Zamora, which is not on THE Via de la Plata that goes from Zamora north to Astorga to be exact).
 

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