Graffiti!

[Phil Aberhart]

Hey how about we stop writing on the beautiful waymarkers? I know the messages are generally well intended but it seems like a selfish and destructive way of getting a message across. Do people bring marker pens with them specifically for this purpose?

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

i fantasize about a mild electric current conducted through the sharpie. yes, they have no other good reason to have sharpies and paint with them other than to be selfish and ignorant. sadly, they don't read this forum, or are so self-entitled they don't think it actually applies to them

 

[MarcelWals]

It's a shame to noticed it. Some even take the metal out where there's the number of km's on it. You can't stop it...unfortunately. The thing is also...you never see people doin' it. But it has to stop.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

apparently a sharpie or an edding are now standard items in a pilgrim's kit

 

[Mark Lee]

I would say with confidence that no members of this forum (or anyone who reads it) does the Camino graffiti.
I can only think that the idiots that are responsible for it, do it very late in the day after the bulk of the pilgrim's have passed by, and yeah, it would take some planning and logistics. To actually make a plan, and to pack spray paint and sharpies in order to graffiti up Camino way markers is so bizarre.

 

[SYates]

Actually there was a case some months back on a German forum (not mine) of somebody that asked us proudly if we had seen his signature he had left along the Camino Portuguese. Needless to say I landed on him, heavily! Buen Camino, SY

 

[C clearly]

Hey how about we stop writing on the beautiful waymarkers?

Welcome to the forum. There's an idea! I hereby promise not to deface any markers.

 

[Mark Lee]

Actually there was a case some months back on a German forum (not mine) of somebody that asked us proudly if we had seen his signature he had left along the Camino Portuguese. Needless to say I landed on him, heavily! Buen Camino, SY

Wow, that guy sounds like a true selfish, idiot.
Please pass that along to him for me if you contact him again on that forum.

 

[SYates]

Nops, he ended up on my ignore list SY

 

[MCFearnley]

Actually there was a case some months back on a German forum (not mine) of somebody that asked us proudly if we had seen his signature he had left along the Camino Portuguese. Needless to say I landed on him, heavily! Buen Camino, SY

Had you said that it was on the Camino Frances, I would have asked if it was Julius '16. I saw his tag on almost every waymarker. I would gladly land on him very heavily and give him a piece of my mind.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

apparently a sharpie or an edding are now standard items in a pilgrim's kit

they make room for it by riding themselves of a social conscience and moral compass

 

[SYates]

Had you said that it was on the Camino Frances, I would have asked if it was Julius '16. I saw his tag on almost every waymarker. I would gladly land on him very heavily and give him a piece of my mind.

Nops, that wasn't his handle, but I will also not post his handle here as it wouldn't serve any good. I only posted that example to show that not all forum members of all Camino forums are little angels.

And in the silent hope that somebody like him that reads the comments here reconsiders his/her actions ...

Buen Camino, SY

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

as always, soon in my etsy pilgrim tshirt shop

 

[Stivandrer]

Sigh, remembering my tour i 88 to Turkey and visiting the Hagia Sofia ,where I searched the balustrade and found a famous Rune inscription from one of the Viking Varinga guard who´d scrathed " Hathgar was here" on the Marble.
Not everyone foresees that some inscriptions infamously keep for centuries...!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Had you said that it was on the Camino Frances, I would have asked if it was Julius '16. I saw his tag on almost every waymarker. I would gladly land on him very heavily and give him a piece of my mind.

Would love it if the Pilgrim's Office kept track of our names and contact info so these vandals could be tracked down. Better yet, get that info from all who ask for a credencial andlet the, know the Camino Police will come and get them if there is evidence of vandalism, littering, or keeping everyone up at night after they waltz in in drunken stupor.

One can always dream, but I honnestly think Bhutan got it right when it decided to limit the number of foreign visitors as a way to preserve ots culture.

 

[SYates]

And who would that work practically ??? SY

 

[newfydog]

One can always dream, but I honnestly think Bhutan got it right when it decided to limit the number of foreign visitors as a way to preserve ots culture.

Bhutan does not exactly limit the number of people visiting, they just limit it to the wealthy. Unless of course they are poor laborers coming up to work for cheap. They cut out the middle, exactly the type of people who are on the Camino. Guess they have not made a favorable impression!

 

[Pathfinder075]

There was a fair bit of Grafitti as I walked. Some wasnt all that bad, but the whole tagging and people saying they loved someone else got quite boring very quickly. I read some of it on the section going into Leon and I guess some people just need to feel acknowledged. I acknowledge i read it.

The stuff going up to the cruz de ferro was fairly motivational, ie, "no pain, no gain", but I didnt mind it as much as the "Te amo" crap that littered the section from Sarria to Santiago.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I think the graffiti, even or especially, at the cruz (along with all the non-rock mementos) was worse, or for example what was done at the metal pilgrims at the alto de perdon. No one wants to see people's trash anywhere, but I'd rather it be a km marker than something I really care about seeing. It's ugly, it's bad for the environment, it's childish...it's so many negative things I can't list them all. I get that the people who do this sort of thing have stunted emotional/intellectual development, but it still creates an ugly mess for all of the normal people walking the camino. What we need are sports/rock/movie stars making a poster that has graffiti examples (for instance, a km marker with Julius'16's tag) saying how stupid it is to do something like that, and then put them up in every albergue. Something that might make these dim-bulbs stop and consider how people actually see them.
of course, they are so incomplete, they will probably just cover the poster with graffiti.

 

[VNwalking]

It's a safe bet that no-one here is either tagging or littering...these are communal pet peeves.
Don't we wish everyone felt the same way?
(There was a thread last year about the trash cans in Galicia that had 'Imagine' lyrics on them that was an 'active discussion,' to say the least...and it's not so black and white--like everything in life, it's complicated.
Along the way I'm surprised that I sometimes find myself enjoying some of the street art (eg...Kinky1's avatar), but hate the gratuitous sharpie attacks on signs, benches, mile markers.
The line between these two is pretty fuzzy.)

 

[williamlittig]

I used one of my alcohol wipes to clean the underside of a bunkbed decorated with time and place of some hiker (the title Pilgrim withheld0 . Rubbing alcohol , elbow grease and a brush will clean many uneven surfaces of Sharpie. I regret this tutorial is necessary........ Ultreya......... Willy/Utah/USA

 

[Stivandrer]

I used one of my alcohol wipes to clean the underside of a bunkbed decorated with time and place of some hiker (the title Pilgrim withheld0 . Rubbing alcohol , elbow grease and a brush will clean many uneven surfaces of Sharpie. I regret this tutorial is necessary........ Ultreya......... Willy/Utah/USA

We will reserve a portion of the white, marbeled hallways in Heaven to your safe supervision with your wipes, and I promise to start at the other end and joimn you, Willie !!

 

[Thornley]

Just returned from Tokyo,
SPOTLESS
No rubbish bins on streets and nothing but PRIDE shown by all residents , even on the smallest bit of paper.
The mob doing the tagging have no class or respect.
No debate or replies on this from me , they just lack class

But just to get you going , and i will refrain Kanga , this attitude commences at home and then followed by the school.
Buen Camino to all, walk the Primitivo , no graffiti seen because they are too buggered by each days walking

 

[Pathfinder075]

Dont get me started on the missing km markers. Public crucifixion (without the nails) in a public place, including carrying the cross, and hung for an hour would be a nice way to deal with those thieves. Seeing how far I had to go was the best motivation in the last 116km. Seeing someone had nicked the vast majority of them was enough to bring up the rage. But at the same time I also have some ire for whomever put them there. Would it not have worked out better to simply have the number engraved into the stone? Also was it necessary to take it to so many decimal places. xx.x would be more than ideal.

Anyway, some graffiti was pretty good, and their was some Salvador Dali graffiti under a brindge near the orense therms I went to, that was actually very good. But km marker thieves, crucify.

 

[FLEUR]

As we walked the CF we jokingly said to each other " oh d**m ! we forgot to bring our marker pens again!" Why oh why do people need to deface any way markers or remove the kms signs.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

walk the Primitivo , no graffiti seen because they are too buggered by each days walking

Unfortunately, I saw a picture on the random media that showed someone felt they needed to write a poem on the cut posts used as arrows on the Hospitales. sigh. if it is actually worth publishing (and the rubbish on that marker post was not) then get off of your lazy rear and get it published. otherwise, keep it to yourself. I don't like seeing even Lennon (or Lenin) spray painted on things, nor anyone's idea of art. If it it worthwhile, there is a place for it, and that place is not being the eye sore it is when sprayed across stuff. And it has been proven that, like other lower-IQ mammals, once one marks something others follow.
Prevention really starts at home. I'm not surprised in a culture that stresses cooperative living, people are able to see that their immature/impulse-driven childish wants are not above the greater good of the group. Too many in Western culture are being given praise when none is due, and taught how unique and special they are above all others.

 

[VNwalking]

Perhaps that last paragraph stretches the boundary a bit in terms of forum rules, but I'm glad you said it, @Smallest_Sparrow. I wholeheartedly, totally, and completely agree, especially with the last sentence.

But it's actually quite pertinent to the Camino, and not just a rant about our culture. One thing walking the Camino does is to remind us is that we are none of us in this life alone--we depend on community, and deeply affect one another with our thoughts, words, and deeds. Once people get that, a whole lot of thoughtlessness can drop away. Bit it's too bad the sharpie crowd are not sharp enough to 'get it'.

@Kanga came up with a great idea about how to practically deal with TP; in the same spirit, perhaps to give fellow peregrinos alcohol wipes would be a start at education? At the very least we can all do our part to help clean up some unsightly stuff, rather than only grumbling about it.

 

[Mark Lee]

Perhaps that last paragraph stretches the boundary a bit in terms of forum rules, but I'm glad you said it, @Smallest_Sparrow. I wholeheartedly, totally, and completely agree, especially with the last sentence.

But it's actually quite pertinent to the Camino, and not just a rant about our culture. One thing walking the Camino does is to remind us is that we are none of us in this life alone--we depend on community, and deeply affect one another with our thoughts, words, and deeds. Once people get that, a whole lot of thoughtlessness can drop away. Bit it's too bad the sharpie crowd are not sharp enough to 'get it'.

@Kanga came up with a great idea about how to practically deal with TP; in the same spirit, perhaps to give fellow peregrinos alcohol wipes would be a start at education? At the very least we can all do our part to help clean up some unsightly stuff, rather than only grumbling about it.

I don't think I saw any graffiti on the CF that could be repaired/cleaned up with alcohol wipes. What would be needed is a portable high pressure washer and in some cases maybe even a sandblaster. The Camino waymarkers would require the high pressure washer in conjunction with scrub brushes and strong detergent.

 

[travelgirl409]

Ju

It's a safe bet that no-one here is either tagging or littering...these are communal pet peeves.
Don't we wish everyone felt the same way?
(There was a thread last year about the trash cans in Galicia that had 'Imagine' lyrics on them that was an 'active discussion,' to say the least...and it's not so black and white--like everything in life, it's complicated.
Along the way I'm surprised that I sometimes find myself enjoying some of the street art (eg...Kinky1's avatar), but hate the gratuitous sharpie attacks on signs, benches, mile markers.
The line between these two is pretty fuzzy.)

st walked past the "Imagine" lyrics today. It was less offensive than all the other graffiti but still . . . Why does every single thing get written on??

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Ju

st walked past the "Imagine" lyrics today. It was less offensive than all the other graffiti but still . . . Why does every single thing get written on??

I know, especially since the internet does exist....if you think your poem/prayer/declaration of unending love needs to be seen, put it in a blog
if you think something would look cool spray painted with some not-too-witty observation, take a picture, use photo shop, and post
if you are bored, get a job, buy your own things, and paint them
I need more coffee...too grumpy to be reading this right now

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

either I refused to photograph graffiti out of protest, or it is becoming worse...certainly the picture I saw of the drivel on the Hospitales wasn't there when I walked (or it was too foggy for me to see and I was blessed). It might be interesting to see pictures of something...say the 26km marker, over the years to see the damage being done.

 

[Mark Lee]

Ju

st walked past the "Imagine" lyrics today. It was less offensive than all the other graffiti but still . . . Why does every single thing get written on??

Comical that someone thought so much of the lyrics, found them so poignant that they wanted to share them with the world, so they illegally scribbled them on the side of plastic garbage bins....

 

[tpmchugh]

It's a shame to noticed it. Some even take the metal out where there's the number of km's on it. You can't stop it...unfortunately. The thing is also...you never see people doin' it. But it has to stop.

My question is, who brings a tool on the camino strong enough to prise off the new metal distance markers and who packs permanent markers unless they intend writing their name on everything that stands still which is why I always manage to keep walking no matter how tired in case they write on me too. Also, why did the Xunta put in the new waymarks knowing full well the distance plaques would not last the summer. They had to be fully aware they would be vandalised as they made a point of having the distance engraved in concrete for the 100km one which by the way is an absolute mess with graffiti. I was completely disgusted with the mess I found on the new markers this year. It is very sad that people feel the need to indulge in such destruction on a pilgrimage

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

prise off the new metal distance markers

just another reason to mildly electrify the markers

which is why I always manage to keep walking no matter how tired in case they write on me too.

this will be what I laugh about for the next several days

 

[Tulle]

I find the graffiti disgusting, but I find the garbage on and around the cross even more disgusting.

 

[Mark Lee]

I know there must at least one fan of Camino graffiti or Camino graffiti "artist" out there reading this thread.
Just curious, in what way would one justify it and does anyone actually find the graffiti attractive to look at or believes that it has some artistic value?
Be great if one of them chimed in....

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

View attachment 30135 View attachment 30136 I find the graffiti disgusting, but I find the garbage on and around the cross even more disgusting.

what is that, underwear? Handkerchiefs given out by a well meaning forum member? what the heck, people!?!?!

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I know there must at least one fan of Camino graffiti or Camino graffiti "artist" out there reading this thread.
Just curious, in what way would one justify it and does anyone actually find the graffiti attractive to look at or believes that it has some artistic value?
Be great if one of them chimed in....

it's the equivalent of screaming "mommy mommy mommy" at the top of your 2 year old lungs. It's like being a flasher. A compulsion for attention that lacks enough frontal lobe development to stop oneself. sad, but much more annoying. they do it because they want attention and know deep in their psyche no one will give them what they crave so desperately. sad. and annoying.

 

[laylow]

I agree that the markers should be left alone. But, I saw some amazing street art in some of the urban/industrial settings along my Camino. Most, if not all of it was created by locals I think(never saw pilgrims with 5-10 cans of spray-paint). Some of the tunnels you go through have beautiful murals and "tags", as well as political messages. I really enjoyed seeing this.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

View attachment 30135 View attachment 30136 I find the graffiti disgusting, but I find the garbage on and around the cross even more disgusting.

on closer inspection, it does appear the detritus left at the cross includes handkerchiefs, scarves, possible underwear, a variety of rotting fruit and flowers, a tootsie pop, chapstick, a tube of (?diaper rash cream/antifungal cream/anti lice cream?), gum (unused and also possibly used), possibly a condom wrapper, cookies, etc...but happily, in the lower right, two sharpies. perhaps they had run dry.
i remain grateful the crucifix itself was just a bit out of reach

 

[Mark Lee]

I agree that the markers should be left alone. But, I saw some amazing street art in some of the urban/industrial settings along my Camino. Most, if not all of it was created by locals I think(never saw pilgrims with 5-10 cans of spray-paint). Some of the tunnels you go through have beautiful murals and "tags", as well as political messages. I really enjoyed seeing this.

yeah, seeing this was so....enjoyable? (I altered photo for posting on here, but I think y'all know what it says)

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

defacing property that belongs to another says a lot about the person doing it. And not what they think (or hope)

 

[Pruden]

I'm right now in Hontanas, going from Logroño to León , what I see every day is graffitis everywhere and vandalized signal ,( they have to be put a lot of effort on tumbling down many heavy signal that weight more than a hundred kilos).
Sincerely what kind of people do the Camino , or what do they come for????
It's a pity!!
Buen Camino!

 

[SYates]

... Sincerely what kind of people do the Camino , or what do they come for????...

Not all, perhaps not even the majority, of the vandals are actually doing the Camino. I think many of these acts are also committed by people that live locally. Perhaps even because we pilgrims seem to be rich, they are angry that they don't/can't do what we do due to the state of the Spanish economy/ high rate of unemployment etc.

Others, for example those that stole the km-markers, might just be a bad case of 'souvenir hunters' that passed by in a car.

Nothing of that excuses these acts of vandalism btw.

Buen Camino, SY

 

[MCFearnley]

At one point on my route, past Sarria, I saw three teens/young adults writing on a marker. I said to them that it was not appreciated, but either they did not understand or they ignored me and kept going. What can one do when one is on her own?

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

At one point on my route, past Sarria, I saw three teens/young adults writing on a marker. I said to them that it was not appreciated, but either they did not understand or they ignored me and kept going. What can one do when one is on her own?

you did the right thing, and more than some would do; good for you!

 

[SYates]

... What can one do when one is on her own?

Several things come to my mind - sadly none of them legal . Buen Camino, SY

As @Smallest_Sparrow already said, you did the best you could and more than many others would ...

 

[C clearly]

Sincerely what kind of people do the Camino , or what do they come for????

All kinds of people do the camino and they come for all sorts of reasons.

 

[Kanga]

what is that, underwear? Handkerchiefs given out by a well meaning forum member? what the heck, people!?!?!

No, those are not handkerchiefs but pennant flags. My handkerchiefs are quite distinctive because they all have kids designs on them. So if by any change you do see a tiny handkerchief with rabbits, or teddy bears, please pick it up and wash it and recycle it!

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

No, those are not handkerchiefs but pennant flags. My handkerchiefs are quite distinctive because they all have kids designs on them. So if by any change you do see a tiny handkerchief with rabbits, or teddy bears, please pick it up and wash it and recycle it!

pennant flags near the bottom, handkerchief (bandanas) near the top; used gum (?) above midline left, unused at base center, sharpies base right....once it is seen it can't be unseen

but I saw no teddy bears or other cute things. now I want one of your handkerchiefs.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

not a used one, please...

 

[Icacos]

Not all, perhaps not even the majority, of the vandals are actually doing the Camino. I think many of these acts are also committed by people that live locally. Perhaps even because we pilgrims seem to be rich, they are angry that they don't/can't do what we do due to the state of the Spanish economy/ high rate of unemployment etc.

Others, for example those that stole the km-markers, might just be a bad case of 'souvenir hunters' that passed by in a car.

Nothing of that excuses these acts of vandalism btw.

Buen Camino, SY

Thank you, SY. I've just been reading this thread wondering why does everyone seem to think that the graffiti is all the work of dim-witted pilgrims who should know better. People all over the world indulge in graffiti, and maybe the people who live along the camino indulge in it too. It seems that we complain more about the graffiti along the camino than we do about the graffiti in our own cities. Perhaps the graffiti off the camino is just as bad as the graffiti on the camino. As to the missing metal markers I keep reading about, maybe 'pilgrims' are taking them for souvenirs, but there is also a market for scrap metal and perhaps some people who live on the camino are, as there are those who do all over the world, simply trying to put food on their table.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

some of them are rather lengthy, in English, but it could be just to throw off the police others are comments about how much/little they are enjoying walking the camino, another possible subterfuge. I don't think the markers are copper, probably the entire camino's metal markers would not put much on the table. They would get more money picking up cans and bottles from the road. It doesn't have to be 'dim-witted pilgrims," just 'dim-witted to use your phrase. But most likely the local "dimwits" (I prefer to more accurately describe them as people with hampered executive function, and a lesser IQ) won't climb to the cruz de ferro to leave their mark. Nor would they walk to a far point to dump their old shirts, shoes, gum, etc

 

[VNwalking]

We can agree with each other all we want, but is there anything that can be done?
Without disincentive (social, legal, or otherwise) on the prevention side, that means a LOT of time and work on the clean-up side. And where are the already stretched local governing bodies going to find money and personnel for that?

If I lived in Spain I would be thinking to organize a group of Graffiti Busters, who could from time to time do to graffiti what the Ditch Pigs do to trash, perhaps with a grant from one of the Camino societies.
If we don't like it we can clean it up.

 

[Icacos]

.......If I lived in Spain .........

But you don't, and neither do a lot of us who complain so vociferously about the graffiti, litter, whatever, on the camino. And other than quietly cleaning up what we can, and perhaps trying to urge pilgrims to respect the camino, I don't think there is a whole lot we can do, or should do, about telling other people how to run their own business. I may be wrong but I feel sure that somewhere on this forum we foreigners were gently chastised by someone, whose home was Spain, for trying to do just that.

 

[VNwalking]

Sorry, @Icaros, if I wasn't clear--I was certainly not telling anyone how to run or do anything.
I was just expressing some wishful thinking of being able to go out there and actually do something to clean up waymarkers and grafitti hotspots. It's what I'd be thinking of organizing if I lived on or near the Camino--along the lines of what Reb and the Ditch Pigs do on the Meseta. Not what I think other people should do.

 

[Albertagirl]

Yesterday, I watched a bicycle pilgrim, get off his bicycle, get out his red magic marker, and add some graffiti to the Camino, while his girlfriend giggled beside him. I said and did nothing. He wrote his graffiti on a loose rock, so it could be disposed of simply by tossing it or turning it over. I did not waste my time looking at what he wrote. Any opinions as to whether I should have done or said anything, and what?

 

[camino07]

Unfortunately, I saw a picture on the random media that showed someone felt they needed to write a poem on the cut posts used as arrows on the Hospitales. sigh. if it is actually worth publishing (and the rubbish on that marker post was not) then get off of your lazy rear and get it published. otherwise, keep it to yourself. I don't like seeing even Lennon (or Lenin) spray painted on things, nor anyone's idea of art. If it it worthwhile, there is a place for it, and that place is not being the eye sore it is when sprayed across stuff. And it has been proven that, like other lower-IQ mammals, once one marks something others follow.
Prevention really starts at home. I'm not surprised in a culture that stresses cooperative living, people are able to see that their immature/impulse-driven childish wants are not above the greater good of the group. Too many in Western culture are being given praise when none is due, and taught how unique and special they are above all others.

Unfortunately there is now graffiti on the Primitivo. One of 4 young folk on my Primitivo,a lovely young Spanish girl wrote her name in red on many posts. I also saw her drawing a cow on a sign.I gave her many rows but she just laughed. She also pranced around the Albergues in a g-string. She became part of our Camino family but would not listen to us.

 

[VNwalking]

Any opinions as to whether I should have done or said anything, and what?

A rock? I'd have done the same thing as you, so long as the rock was tossable. If not--or if it were an object that is communal or another's property, it would depend. If it were someone in the general Camino family, I might first offer a non-violent but firm words about the pain it causes myself and others "When I saw you do X, I felt Y...", and after talking about the benefits of community and kindness finally asking if they'd consider throwing the Sharpies out. Privately.
Shaming and public confrontation only increases stubbornness--so while I'd really want to give the person an angry earful about how selfish, immature and entitled they're being, I would hope to be able to communicate more skillfully...

But @camino007's experience:

I gave her many rows but she just laughed.

... indicates it would probably be a waste of breath.

Sigh.
And now that there is graffiti appearing on the Primativo, it's likely to propagate.

 

[Icacos]

Sorry, @Icaros, if I wasn't clear--I was certainly not telling anyone how to run or do anything.
I was just expressing some wishful thinking of being able to go out there and actually do something to clean up waymarkers and grafitti hotspots. It's what I'd be thinking of organizing if I lived on or near the Camino--along the lines of what Reb and the Ditch Pigs do on the Meseta. Not what I think other people should do.

No, @Viranani, I wasn't criticizing you at all; I was just speaking generally. I, too, would like to do something about the unsightly messes on the camino. However, I well remember how uncomfortable I felt once when picking up some trash in a town square, and depositing it in a trash can in full view of the local townspeople. I couldn't help but wonder, "Who am I, a visitor, to impose my wishes / expectations on these people, in their own town." I am still trying to come to terms with our (my) desire / wish / expectation to see the camino cleaned up, and the words some of us live by, "A pilgrim is grateful, a tourist demands." In other words, at what point does a desire / wish / expectation actually become a demand.

All that being said, I would dearly love to go out there with Rebekah and the Ditch Pigs and help clean up the countryside.

 

[Icacos]

........So if by any change you do see a tiny handkerchief with rabbits, or teddy bears, please pick it up and wash it and recycle it!

This reminds me of the classic post by one of our esteemed members who, finding a buff 'lost' among the bushes, picked it up and wore it! I don't know if he washed it first.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

She also pranced around the Albergues in a g-string. She became part of our Camino family but would not listen to us.

and there it is again, lack of adequate executive functioning. Sadly, by the time anyone is old enough to buy their own sharpies and walk the camino without holding the hand of their mother, they are probably nearly past the age where the correct brain circuitry could be encouraged to grow. Group CBT might help a little, but not much. while looking at their droppings is irritating, it actually does make me sad to know the kind of life that is their destiny. and that softens the irritation a bit. just a little bit.

 

[VNwalking]

Sadly, by the time anyone is old enough to buy their own sharpies and walk the camino without holding the hand of their mother, they are probably nearly past the age where the correct brain circuitry could be encouraged to grow.

I may be completely deluded but live in eternal hope that neuroplasticity will actually allow some change in people.

I don't know if he washed it first.

He didn't, from the sound of it. We're horrid, we women.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I may be completely deluded but live in eternal hope that neuroplasticity will actually allow some change in people.

the younger the better, and there's always miracles. so always worth a try. I think many will never develop the circuitry to truly see their how their actions impact others, but can learn to pause long enough to reason out consequences to themselves and perhaps inhibit some behavior. They will have to work a lot harder at doing what is natural to the rest of us.

 

[Icacos]

.........We're horrid, we women.

As I recall, that was the whole point of his post.

 

[Colin Botterman]

I don't think I saw any graffiti on the CF that could be repaired/cleaned up with alcohol wipes. What would be needed is a portable high pressure washer and in some cases maybe even a sandblaster. The Camino waymarkers would require the high pressure washer in conjunction with scrub brushes and strong detergent.

Nice Idea, but please tell me who is going to pay for all of this? I live on the Camino and have had to clean the three markers in our village every week as well as picking up all the litter and putting it in the bins we locals have provided.
If the local council pays for this that means less money for other local needs, or do you mean the citizens of Galicia should fund the cleanup? As for the distance plaques that were stolen and I replaced with cardboard ones, Even they were stolen.

 

[Quasi]

Hey how about we stop writing on the beautiful waymarkers? I know the messages are generally well intended but it seems like a selfish and destructive way of getting a message across. Do people bring marker pens with them specifically for this purpose?

I totally agree. Why would anyone even consider doing this. And while we are on the waymarkers, why would anyone consider removing the shell tiles and the distance plates. Very disappointing.

 

[Mark Lee]

Nice Idea, but please tell me who is going to pay for all of this? I live on the Camino and have had to clean the three markers in our village every week as well as picking up all the litter and putting it in the bins we locals have provided.
If the local council pays for this that means less money for other local needs, or do you mean the citizens of Galicia should fund the cleanup? As for the distance plaques that were stolen and I replaced with cardboard ones, Even they were stolen.

I have no idea as far as funding the clean-up of graffiti left behind by the small percentage of stupid, selfish pilgrims that walk the Camino. I was just pointing out what is actually needed to clean off graffiti such as paint and permanent markers on surfaces, especially porous surfaces like stone and concrete (waymarkers). I just don't see removing the stuff with alcohol wipes.
I guess the graffiti will be a permanent problem on the Camino, as I don't see any reason why such idiocy would stop and the clean-up of their damage would be financed by local government. Really no different than the Mardi Gras down here in New Orleans. It generates a tremendous amount of money to the city...millions of dollars, but of course a by-product of all that revelry is the clean-up (among other things) which is paid for by the city. A cost of doing business so to speak. Unfortunately I guess the trash left on he ground and the graffiti is some of the cost of doing business. The business being the Camino.

 

[laylow]

 

[Mark Lee]

Yeah, that's all pretty much ugly. Not the illustrations themselves, but the fact they were painted/drawn on property belonging to someone else/public without permission or consent to do so. In all actuality, illegally and perhaps done by someone who is not even a resident of Spain. A guest. Not a very nice way for guests to act.
I see shite like that and only shake my head, and quietly apologize for the actions of a small percentage of my fellow pilgrims.

 

[Steve Day]

Graffiti - agree ... countdown to Santiago markers, however, miss the point by making arrival at that destination so important .... like life itself, it is about the journey, moment by moment ... at most, day by day ...

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Graffiti - agree ... countdown to Santiago markers, however, miss the point by making arrival at that destination so important .... like life itself, it is about the journey, moment by moment ... at most, day by day ...

for me, the km markers were a double check of my estimate of distance to the next ladies room. Not everyone can/will use a tree or bush. They and road signs were also useful for my picture records, so when a couple of years later I finally get around to organizing things, I know what was where. You think you will never forget where you took that picture...and yet, you do.

And some people like counting down...to each their own.

 

[Mike Trebert]

At one point on my route, past Sarria, I saw three teens/young adults writing on a marker. I said to them that it was not appreciated, but either they did not understand or they ignored me and kept going. What can one do when one is on her own?

Take a picture on your phone and give it to the cops. Hold the phone down by your side in one hand and pocket it before you pass them.

 

[Mike Trebert]

Many of these graffiti "artists" are nihilistic, libertarian, numb, angry, ignorant. American comedian/social commentator Bill Maher defines "a libertarian" as "a selfish xxxhole" (who cares a lot about his/her own freedom but doesn't give a fig about anyone else's). The interweb enables many people to voice their tiny attitudes without leaving their hidy-hole. They are too immature to make much sense so they dump the contents of their little minds and enjoy the anger they cause which is about all they are capable of creating. These defacers are the equivalent of skulking trolls. And I don't think they're going away any time soon. IMHO, the "modern" world teaches too many young people to be competitive instead of cooperative, and to be angry when they can't achieve what they are led to believe they deserve. Too often this particular kind of anger is an intelligent response, in my opinion. Maybe it has become part of the fabric of this 21st century world.

There is also the whole issue of reaction against authoritarianism, which can be a healthy tradition. If I say any more about that or a particular context, my words won't survive here.

A complex issue. If I saw someone defacing a marker, I'd take a picture and rat on them. And move on to live with my semi-bourgeois, champagne socialism.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

while I don't see Spanish police doing much with a photo, I am happily fantasizing (in addition to the mild electric current) that photos turned in to the Pilgrims office would result in a quick scan and any defacing walker being told "sorry, you were insufferably self-entitled at km 45, no Compostella for you ...try again and leave the sharpie at home next time" as the volunteer rips up the credential

 

[Mike Trebert]

I wonder if a person who is small-minded, angry, and anti-authoritarian enough to vandalise Camino property is going to be very wounded by being refused a Compostela. I doubt that he/she would bother to even apply for one. The police might not do much about a photo but why assume that? A strangely defeatist attitude. If my choice is some kind of direct action or the gnashing of teeth, then no contest.

 

[SYates]

I actually believe that such a person would be very offended not to be granted a Compostela because s/he believes 'they have done nothing wrong/are entitled to pretty much anything'. As for the police here a story from the time machine:

Back in 2001, when the Xunta albergues were still donativos, I was a hospitalera in O Cebreiro. One day the Guardia Civil turned up. Apparently there was a pilgrim on its way who signed every single way marker with date and - his name! He arrived and they took him with them to the police station ... So yes, the police is, or at least was, very interested in catching that kind of vandals. Buen Camino, SY

 

[MTtoCamino]

This thread is quite a read, yet over the years it does not change. I venture to say 99% of those on this web site do not or will not be doing this. Only those who live along the various camino's can really make a decisive change. Like any annoying issue from politics to human behavior in reality we see how much change we can effect. Bottom line sometimes the most important just ourselves.

 

[Steve Day]

As for the precious Compostela, there is no room in the rucksack for unnecessary souvenirs ... though I understand some employers like them as evidence of character in prospective employees ... and, like everything in the world of measurement, the Compostela can be gamed ... after three routes, my challenge is not to become addicted to the beautiful parallel universe that is the pilgrimage ....