harder route from St Jean Pied de Pont to Roncesvalle?

[WALKER007]

I am doing the caminio next May and will have a month. I am wondering whether to start in St Jean and do the Napolaenic route over the Pyrenees. Having just climbed Snowdonia yesterday I am wondering whether I should just start in Roncesvalles. I found Snowdonia tough because of the terrain (boulders rocks etc) and wondered what the ground was like on the path over the pyrenees. I am maturing in years!!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The ascent footing is good in good weather on both the Napolean and Valcarlos routes. The descent into Roncesvalles on the Napolean is worse than the mostly road from Valcarlos. Zubiri the next day may be a worse downhill than either! There are no rock scrambles on either.

 

[sillydoll]

I also hate rocks and boulders - especially on the downhills. You won't find these on the route Napoleon.
You have a steady, steep climb for 19km, no downs and very few flat sections, but neither the first 14km on a tarred road or the last 10 on a path are rocky. There are two routes down to Roncesvalles - 6km (road route) or 3km (beech woods - slippery but no rocks).

I posted this description of the route a few weeks ago:

The first 14km or so is on a little tarred road - consistently steep up from St Jean but with stunning views. After 5km you reach Huntto. Stop for a rest and a coffee or coke! At about the 6.4km mark there is a fountain and a table. Stop for a look at the view - if it is a nice day!

Another 2+ km and you reach Orisson. Stay for the night. I think it is €30 for a bed and dinner. If you don't get in, stay another night in St Jean. Get a taxi to fetch you from Orisson and take you back to St Jean (± €8) and bring you back the next day.

3km from Orisson you see the statue of the Virgin of Biakorri on the left. (11km) Stop a while to catch your breath and take photos. Another 2km further a road joins yours from the right. This is the road to Arneguy which is on the Val Carlos route. The tarred road ends about 2km further (15km) just after the sign that reads Roncesvaux/Orreaga. From there you are on a lovely, grass path - still going up but not scary. It is not a rocky mountain track and there is no difficulty in walking it - its just steep. 1.5km later you come to a wooden sign that directs you to the Col Leopoeder and Roncesvalles. At the 20.5km sign you have two choices - take the path into the beech woods - VERY steeply downhill for 3.5km through the woods which can be trecherous in wet weather - or the slightly longer road route to the Ibañeta pass where the Val Carlos route joins and down to Roncesvalles.

Ive walked both routes - Val Carlos and Napoleon. On the Val Carlos route we stayed in a Casa at Val Carlos and then went over the Ibaneta Pass the next day. The scenery is stunning on both routes. There is a lot of off road walking on the road route and the last few kms to the pass on the road route are even steeper than the Route Napoleon! Its like walking up Sani Pass on a tarred road!

Send your packs ahead if you want to and just carry essentials in a daypack - many pilgrims do

 

[arcalis1000]

I'm also planning the Camino next May and was wondering if the road route is easier as I wanted to do it in one day. Alternatively I am thinking about starting from Roncesvalles as the first stage looks really hard!

 

[tyrrek]

I'm also planning the Camino next May and was wondering if the road route is easier as I wanted to do it in one day. Alternatively I am thinking about starting from Roncesvalles as the first stage looks really hard!

Hi! I broke the stage to Roncesvalles in two staying in Valcarlos overnight on the 'road route'. Although it's referred to as that, as I remember it's only really about 7kms walking immediately on the roadside after leaving Valcarlos. If you are doing it early morning on leaving Valcarlos the traffic isn't too bad (especially at weekends I assume) but do take care and be visible. After that it's a steep climb, but through nice woodland on a single file track. Very nice indeed. Day 1 to Valcarlos from SJPP is a nice introduction with no major obstacles I can remember. Buen Camino!

 

[mspath]

What timing! Just this Tuesday I walked to Valcarlos from SJPdP and spent the night in the VERY comfortable municipal albergue which takes reservations. Yesterday I continued up the alternative camino to Roncevalles. Five hours later caught in a fierce wind I staggered over Ibaneta and at last into the monastery. Two days always help make this climb possible but in all my caminos it NEVER has been a walk in the park! Tonight I am soaking my feet.
Margaret Meredith

 

[CaminoKris2013]

So when you all mean steep...can you describe it further? I'm not worried about the uphill, but downhill does cause me concern and I really want to start from SJPP. I am planning on breaking the first leg (SJPP to Roncesville) in 2...wanting to ease the beginning and also enjoy the scenary over the Pyrenees.

CaminoKris2013

 

[sillydoll]

It is very steep but you are not going to graze your chin or your elbows on the road! It is on a tarred road and there are places for you to stop and look at the scenery. Its only 8km to Orisson so you can take your time.
From the split in the road at the top of the hill there are two routes down to Roncesvalles - a very steep 4km route through the Beech forest (largest in Europe) which shouldn't be taken in wet weather. If you take the road route it is 2km to the Ibaneta pass and then 3km down to Roncesvalles on the road.
Most medieval pilgrims walked on what is now the road route from St Michel or St Jean, over the Ibraneta Pass to Roncesvalles. About 10km of this route is on road and the rest is on side paths that detour from the road through the countryside.
Hope you have a great walk - whichever route you decide on.

 

[tyrrek]

So when you all mean steep...can you describe it further? I'm not worried about the uphill, but downhill does cause me concern and I really want to start from SJPP. I am planning on breaking the first leg (SJPP to Roncesville) in 2...wanting to ease the beginning and also enjoy the scenary over the Pyrenees.

CaminoKris2013

And on the Valcarlos route to Roncesvalles it is probably equally steep, but unlike the Napoleon you are only really walking uphill to Roncesvalles rather than over the hill then down into the village.

I was struggling as an unfit smoker and had to stop regularly, but as Sil says there's no scrambling with your hands etc. It's just a case of taking your time. Buen Camino!

 

[CaminoKris2013]

Thanks, Sil and Tyrrek...I'll let the weather dictate which route to take.

 

[Icacos]

I am due to start my Camino at SJPP early next April and I want, more than anything, to hike the Route Napoleon. I am keeping fingers and toes crossed for good weather. People say that the trek on the Route Napoleon down to Roncesvalles is very steep, but steepness is relative. Does anyone know what the average gradient is? Also, can someone tell me the difference between the Col de Lepoeder and the Ibaneta Pass? Is one further dow from the other?

 

[sillydoll]

There is very precise description of the two routes here:
The Col is 1433m and Ibaneta is about 1058m

http://www.rutasnavarra.com/asp/asp_rut ... =12&tipo=2

At this website you can download a complete list of profiles for each stage. They are not to scale but will give you an idea of the different altitudes.

http://www.aucoeurduchemin.org/spip/spi ... ubrique564

 

[scruffy1]

Which is the hardest? A very subjective questive easily answered for me. The Valcarlos route has a long long strech on the asphalt, right on the road-much harder for me since Ireally don't like walking on or next to roads, my knees also prefer a path. Your choice though
S

 

[Icacos]

There is very precise description of the two routes here:
The Col is 1433m and Ibaneta is about 1058m
http://www.rutasnavarra.com/asp/asp_rut ... =12&tipo=2

Thank you for this very useful information. With my rudimentary Spanish and the help of someone who is more mathematically inclined than I am (and assuming I gave him the correct information) here is what we've come up with:

Route 1, Por Ibaneta, at 4.12 k has a grade of 11.67%
Route 2, Camino "Viejo", at 4.81 k has a grade of 13.3%

If there is a thaw in early April, which I expect is possible, mud may be a problem. Other than that, I hope the only thing that will prevent me from going the Napoleon Route will be if the gendarmes in SJPP put the kibosh on my plans.

And I am with you, scruffy1, I would prefer a path over a paved road any day.

Let's all hope for good weather. Buen camino.

 

[Icacos]

Route 1, Por Ibaneta, at 4.12 k has a grade of 11.67%
Route 2, Camino "Viejo", at 4.81 k has a grade of 13.3%

Sorry, I made a mistake there. I think the correct figures are:

Route 1, Por Ibaneta, at 4.12 k has a grade of 11.67%
Route 2, Camino "Viejo", with the shorter distance of 3.61 k, has a grade of 13.3%

 

[BoldenMD]

I did this portion on Aug. 26-27. I took the Route Napoleon and then went through the woods to Roncesvalles (somehow I missed the easier route, although I am not sure I would have taken it). They were both harder than I imagined or suspected, despite having read the descriptions. I did stop at Orisson the first day, but I got a late start so I was traveling in the heat of the day, and it is steep! I was exhausted. I made it by focusing on distances of about 100 meters instead of the entire thing. It seemed like it took a lifetime, but I think it took me about four hours (and I usually walk about five kilometers an hour). I wish I had trained on more steep hills.

Leaving Orisson the force of the wind surprised me. There were times when I literally could not stand upright and had to hide behind a rock as windbreak and hug the ground until the wind subsided. (Of course, your mileage may vary as the conditions won't always be the same).

The descent in Roncesvalles through the forest is steep and just takes time. I just wanted to be sure I didn't twist an ankle and end my Camino on the second day! It seems to me that that descent and the one into Zubiri would be easy places to hurt yourself if you aren't cautious, and especially if it's wet. The one into Zubiri is worse, actually, because of the exposed rock everywhere.

 

[jeff001]

I am always surprised at the number of people who consider this to be such a difficult stage. The great majority of it is on or along roads so the gradient is not really a problem. When I did this at age 65 I made to to Orisson in just over 2 hours and stayed over night. I left the next morning after breakfast and was in Roncevalles before noon.

 

[Icacos]

When I did this at age 65 I made to to Orisson in just over 2 hours and stayed over night. I left the next morning after breakfast and was in Roncevalles before noon.

Sounds like you had a wonderful, and enviable, trek across the mountain. That's the kind of trek I am hoping to have. Still, from what others have said, bad weather, and mud, can make the crossing miserable, if not entirely impossible. I will be praying for good (or good enough) weather and hope there will be others along the trail with me. I can hardly wait!

 

[Icacos]

Now that I’ve had a chance to sleep on it, may I say something in defence of those who consider the trek from SJPP to Roncesvalles to be difficult or, for whatever reason, have expressed concern about it.

Not everyone lives in a part of the world where mountains, or even hills, are easily accessible. Most people have to work for a living and may not have time to train appropriately for their Camino. Some people may be very fit, but they may not fully appreciate, or may have underestimated, what a good downhill trek can do to leg muscles. Not everyone knows that the downhill is harder on the legs than the uphill. Or just plain and simple, life’s demands may make it impossible for some to train as much as they would like before they set out on their Camino.

I love the mountains and consider myself fortunate to live in a part of Canada where we can’t go very far before we run into a mountain. In fact, people from our prairie provinces have been known to complain when they come here that they can’t see the sky for the mountains. On the other hand, I’ve visited some places where the only hills for miles around are the overpasses on the freeway. So hill training may not be something that comes easily to hand for many people ….. and training in a stairwell is pretty boring.

Let’s glory in the fact that the mountains of the Camino are there for all to experience and be grateful for that, and be particularly grateful to those wonderfully generous people who provide the hospitality that make these opportunities possible.
Buen camino

 

[BoldenMD]

I am always surprised at the number of people who consider this to be such a difficult stage. The great majority of it is on or along roads so the gradient is not really a problem. When I did this at age 65 I made to to Orisson in just over 2 hours and stayed over night. I left the next morning after breakfast and was in Roncevalles before noon.

I definitely found the gradient to be a problem. Your reaction is reminiscent of what happened when I got to Orisson. I met this 78-year-old from the Netherlands. His first words to me were: "What took you so long?"

 

[Icacos]

His first words to me were: "What took you so long?"

I hope you did not take any offense by this comment. The old fellow probably just said it as a way to break the ice. Besides, he probably got there just minutes ahead of you.

By the way, there is a method of walking uphill, taught to my husband years ago by a Swiss mountain guide, which we always employ now when walking in steep terrain. It involves shifting one's weight forward at each step, before actually making the step. It's easier on the leg muscles. Perhaps that's all you need. If you want more info on this, email me and I will try to explain it in more detail.

Oh, and I walk very slowly myself but, once I get into my groove, I can go forever.

 

[camino-david]

I too do not consider the Napoleon route to be very hard. I walked this in Sept 2010 and the whole way was absolutely beautiful. I stayed at Orisson which I reached about 1.00pm after a delayed start from St Jean. This part of the route is the steepest. The next day I walked to Roncevalles and took loads of time, and arrived before the refugio was open at 4.00 pm. Admittedly I was tired, but not exhausted. I think that some pilgrims find it hard because possibly they have done little training, or not been able to climb hills during training, but please do not let the posts telling us how hard it is deter you from walking one of the most beautiful stretches of the whole Camino. If I could do it at the age of 79, I think that most pilgrims can. As with all things in life, if you don't give it a go, you will never know. David

 

[Meredith1]

My experience was similar to David's--I didn't find the route as hard as I had feared. I started from SJdPP the morning of Sept. 6, a beautiful day, and somewhere along the route met a friendly young British woman as she, I, and a couple of guys had stopped to catch our breath. She and I continued the walk together and were able to talk as we went, which is always a good sign.

When we got to Orisson (I stayed overnight), we were tired but not unreasonably so. However, as I was talking to a young woman who worked there, I mentioned my fears about the next day's walk which I assumed would be much harder. I could see how the road led up, and up, and up .... She told me I had just completed the most difficult part and that the next day's ascent would be easier.

Now the walk down to Roncesvalles was hard, most particularly in the beautiful woods. (I took the path, not the road.) The only time I fell during any of my camino was in a steep stretch where it seemed that despite assistance from my poles, my knees just gave way, causing me to sit down hard and then tip back b/c of my pack. Luckily, three German girls were walking by me and helped me up from my turtle-like position! No injury except to my dignity.

By the time I reached Roncesvalles, I was truly tired but uninjured, I had accomplished what for my 68-year-old self was an amazing feat, and I had seen glorious views. I'd do it again.

 

[k-fun]

David, a very encouraging comment. I only add that people should carry food and water for the long walk. When I climbed last year, the only water we found was at the Fountain De Roland.

 

[3walkingtoSantiago]

You can add my family (45, 44, and 11 years old at the time) to the group who found this stretch very difficult. Yes, we had not properly trained; yes, we have no hills to train on here in Abu Dhabi; yes, our packs were too heavy. We staggered up to Orisson and collapsed for the day and night. We found the next day to be hard, slow going as well. It took us forever to get to Roncevalles (I honestly don't know how long it was - perhaps it only seemed like forever). All of us stopped to soak our feet, and then I had to go on to get our bunks and book for dinner, then go back for my husband and son. (So it went for most of the Camino that year; the pattern was reversed this year!)

Was it worth it? 100%. Would we do it again? Tomorrow if we could.

 

[aghamore]

The route is no harder than many a walk that you may have done in Britain. The first few miles up to Orisson are steep but on tarmac,after that the worst thing we found was the wind which came out of nowhere on the top and was pretty strong.The paths were good in September and should be in May.The downhill into Roncesvalles is steep and we opted for the road route,cutting off the hairpins as necessary.

My wife and I are in our early sixties but keep fit.We had also walked from Oloron during the week before going over the mountains. A lot of the people who struggled were on their first day of walking,some carrying too much and some new to walking altogether but that's what the Camino is all about-it's not your average long distance walk and people do it for lots of reasons and in all kinds of shape.

If you've done some preparation between now and May (and walking up Snowdon seems a good start)you should be ok but the option to stay at Orisson is always there if you're not sure.

 

[Jnlee99]

So when you all mean steep...can you describe it further? I'm not worried about the uphill, but downhill does cause me concern and I really want to start from SJPP. I am planning on breaking the first leg (SJPP to Roncesville) in 2...wanting to ease the beginning and also enjoy the scenary over the Pyrenees.

CaminoKris2013

Based on the elevation of peak and the Roncesville, and distance from peak, it would average at 20 degree of slope. That's pretty steep.

 

[MendiWalker]

Many people find this stage to be very demanding due to a several factors like not having trained properly,traveling cramped over some days to get to SJPdP,not having rested properly after the trip,etc......... and above all bad weather conditions.

If you are a regular hiker you should not have much problem but if you aren´t and many who do start in SJPdP aren´t you will. Specially with bad weather conditions.

Several posters have given you some very good piece of advice here Walker007. As you aren´t setting of till May you have plenty of time to digest all the info.Which ever route you take I hope you enjoy the walk because it´s a very beautiful one indeed.

Buen Camino!

 

[whariwharangi]

I would not call any single part of the Napoleon route difficult. The difficult part is that the distance is 27 km and you work all day going up and then down. The dangerous part is that much of the route is exposed to all weather; there is no shelter. Take the advice of the Pilgrim Office in SJPdP and be prepared.

It gets better after you leave the road. You soon enter a beautiful forest and stay in it till Roncesvalles so blowing wind is no longer an issue.

The pilgrim office in SJPdP recommended taking the road route from Col de Lepoeder via Ibaneta. Apparently the path is a bit steep and people lose their footing if it is at all wet.

Despite the Ibaneta route being a kilometer longer a group of us took less time than others who went the pathway. It was fall. It was wet and leaves were on the ground; perfect slippery conditions.

The trail forks at a sign (GR 12?) and quickly becomes a hardened road surface. There are lots of shortcuts to circumvent the curves.

It started raining fairly hard after I left Orisson. The wind blew the rain sideways and boots got soaked. There was no place to stop out of the weather; lots of sheep shit so no sitting behind a rock. There was nothing for it but to keep walking in order to stay warm.

 

[mspath]

Whilst planning which route to follow up to Roncevalles, either the Napoleon over the mountains or the Valcarlos through the mountains, be sure to read what other pilgrims and I have written in this earlier Forum thread in praise of the Valcarlos route.

Most importantly before you make your final decision on the spot in SJPdP ALWAYS ask for latest weather reports and advice at the welcoming Pilgrim Office, 39 rue de La Citadelle.

Margaret Meredith

 

[Bearbag]

Cimarron the 91 year old pilgrim has walked from St. Jean to Leon this year and is departing Leon now on his way to Santiago. He calls me now and then and said the Pyrenees were easy. Nothing like the tough, rugged, rocky Appalachian Trail which he walked ALL 2156 miles of when he was a young man (age 84).

 

[Ladybird]

Hi David,
I have hiked Snowden and also walked from SJDP on the Napolenic route, on Snowden I went up the Llanberis track which I found quite steep and tricky underfoot, I came back down the miners road which I found very treacherous, whilst coming down I came across a young girl who was having a panic attack about the steepness and rough ground she ended up having to be airlifted from the mountain. However dare I say it here but the camino is much easier compared to it, the steepness is about the same but longer in length but the ground underfoot is much easier. I took the longer path down into Roncevailles which was very pleasant, so if you can tackle Snowden you should have no problem on the Napolenic route.

Dee

 

[nreyn12]

About the descent into Roncesvalles, after the ascent on the Napoleon route: There are two choices. I just walked the steeper one this week, which is the path to the left, and now I can see why so many people get injured or develop tendonitis on their first day on the Camino. The path is very steep in places, and as others have said, slippery if it is at all wet.

I had never had any feet or leg problems on five previous SJPP-Roncesvalles crossings, but this time I did. I attribute that solely to the steepness of that path. I descended on the path to the right two weeks prior with now problems. The extra kilometer or so is worth it to avoid the extra pain inflicted by the steeper path. Plus you get views of Roncesvalles most of the way down!

 

[gerardcarey]

I also am amazed that some folks consider the Route Napoleon to be difficult. Break the first night at Orisson. If your pack feels remotely heavy, you are unsure or worried, send it on ahead. Just do it! Leave Orisson by 8.30am. Stroll along. This is not a race. Stop frequently, admire the views (if it's fine), chat to other pilgrims, drink plenty, eat snacks. Have at least 2 x 1/2 hour meal stops (3 is even better). After you go past the high point start keeping an eye out for the alternative route down the road to Roncesvalles via Ibaneta. Ask fellow pilgrims, check your maps as apparently the road is still not very well marked. I'm going to take a stake and a sign with me next time. As has been said countless time, if it's wet the lovely steepish path down thru the forest becomes very slippery. Don't chance an injury this early in your Camino.