have a weak knee.is sjpp a good starting point?

[Sore Neculai]

hi

I plan on leaving from sjpp on the 17th april. i have a relatively weak knee. i´ve heard that the first 2 days can be quite difficult because of the pyrenees.should i take the risk and start there or should i chose another starting point. is it really that super difficult? if I walk slowly and take 2 walking sticks with me...do u think I´ll manage to not get big knee problems? i have in my head the idea that sjpp is the only real starting point for the french route (for myself).

one more question : 17 april-25 mai should be enough for the whole trip, i guess. (sjpp-finisterre). I am a quite fit person...just my knee is a bit weak.

thanks

Sore

 

[domigee]

Hello Sore!
I think you'll be fine. Are you OK when you walk uphill at home? The worst bit for knees is actually the descent into Roncesvalles, just take it easy and slow and walk sideways, oh and take the road instead of the forest path.
I would practise near your home if you can , going uphill and downhill carrying your pack. Then you'll know how your knees feel.
I can't advise how long it'll take you to Finisterre, sorry, you'll soon know after the 1st two weeks how you're doing and whether it is feasible or not in the time you have.
Buen camino!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

No, unless you really feel you must. A friend of a friend "blew" a knee the first day that was an old high school knee injury. After a taxi ride for a hospital visit in Pamplona with a pint of fluid drained, he took buses and taxis for the next month. If he had started in Pamplona, he might not have had the problem.

Your experience could be different.

 

[Sore Neculai]

thank u very much domigee.I´ll go in like 2 weeks inthe mountains,here in the nearby (munich, germany) to try to see how my knees react to a more difficult terrain. have a nice day

 

[rometimed]

As mentioned I would probably be more concerned about downhill...

Also nice hat <3

I am hiking the Westweg Schwarzwald in late July, it will be my first real time in Germany.

 

[domigee]

That's the best way, have a good time.
PS I 'd listen to Falcon's advice though, he knows his stuff! I tend to be a bit too dare-devil

 

[Sore Neculai]

what if i start from sjpp and during the first day , I already feel that my knee won´t make it through the day.is it possible to take a taxi to the next alberque?I mean, is there along the walking path (1st day distance) a road for the cars?

 

[rometimed]

That's the best way, have a good time.
PS I 'd listen to Falcon's advice though, he knows his stuff! I tend to be a bit too dare-devil

Randomly walking from the UK to Jerusalem is dare-devil? NOOOOOOOOO! ;P

 

[Mark Lee]

walk the ValCarlos route out of SJPdP instead of the Napoleon......

 

[rometimed]

what if i start from sjpp and during the first day , I already feel that my knee won´t make it through the day.is it possible to take a taxi to the next alberque?I mean, is there along the walking path (1st day distance) a road for the cars?

There's a hotel in Orrison which is along that route. It's hard to stay there though without reservation but there's a road, yes.

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Hotel_Rev...e_Country_Pyrenees_Atlantiques_Aquitaine.html

 

[Felipe]

I don't know when and why SJPP became the "canonical" starting point. Spaniards traditionally started in Roncesvalles, French in many places, not necessarily in the mountain. You can begin your walk wherever you like.
Remember that you can also take the lower and easier route to Roncesvalles. It is sometime described as "the highroad way", but it is actually quite pleasant (and kinder to us, the people with bad knees)
Btw, the last mile to Zubiri is a very difficult descent, especially when the terrain is muddy. Be careful.

 

[domigee]

Yes, you can phone for a taxi from Orisson or phone Orisson to call for a taxi if you can't make it there.... The worst climb is actually from StJpdeP to Orisson, it is steep but a short distance. After that it is less strenuous. You could also go the other way (not the Napoleon way, I forget what it's called) but I have never done it so don't know what it's like...

 

[jeffnd]

walk the ValCarlos route out of SJPdP instead of the Napoleon......

I agree with this. It's less strenuous than the Napoleon route. The town of Valcarlos is about midway between St. Jean and Roncesvalles. It would be a good place to rest if you are having issues with your knee, and you could always call a taxi in the morning if you need it.

 

[annakappa]

what if i start from sjpp and during the first day , I already feel that my knee won´t make it through the day.is it possible to take a taxi to the next alberque?I mean, is there along the walking path (1st day distance) a road for the cars?

Why go for such a complication? Why not simply start in Pamplona?
As Felipe mentions, it seems that SJPP has become the "canonical" starting point. IMHO this is part fault of this Forum! You can start wherever you want and, if you have certain leg/foot problems, that you know about BEFORE you leave, why tempt fate?

 

[cher99840]

I think only you can answer the question as to what conditions you are willing to subject your "weak knee" too.

 

[Susan hopes]

I do not have weak knees, but I live in Chicago and I am a flatlander. For us, a steep hill is 20 ft.
The hike from SJPDP was a killer for me. It was a piece of cake for other people.

My strong suggestion is to stay overnight in SJPDP, then take a taxi to Roncesvalles. If your knees still feel sore, you can take the bus to Pamplona. I wish I had started in Roncesvalles, and I probably will next time. Only YOU know your capabilities. And only YOU know your camino.

May it be a rewarding and healthy one.

 

[handzondeck2]

Do you wear a knee brace when you walk? If your knee is very weak try some strengthening exercises, wear a neoprene brace and take it very easy.

 

[Thomas1962]

It sounds like SJPdP is still very tempting to you....
Just remember that what is said already a few times, there is no real official starting point for the camino, you can start anywhere. Only need to walk at least 100 km.
Havind said that, SJPdP is a beuatiful place to start, and a challenging.
A thing not mentioned yet is: you can let your packpack be transported that first day. It cost only a few auro's. It is the first thing which can prevent you to go over your knee limit.
The advantage of the valcarlos route are
- less challenging for any knee
- it stays near the main route between SJPdP and Roncevalles. As far as I know it is more easy to hitch or to take a taxi at any moment. To my experience there are just no cars (luckely too) on the Napoleon route, except some farmers. (at least on that one day I walked)
- you can split up the route in 2 equal parts, there is an albergue half way while on the Napoleon route the albergue in Orisson is only after 5 kms. The next day there are stil 22 (?) to go

Wish you a wonderful camino!

 

[Thornley]

what if i start from sjpp and during the first day , I already feel that my knee won´t make it through the day.is it possible to take a taxi to the next alberque?I mean, is there along the walking path (1st day distance) a road for the cars?

We have walked both the high and low?? roads and have a very special spot for Valcarlos.
Orrison is a alberque on a mountain road/path@ 1000m towards the border @ 1400m
You can still get a taxi at this point by arrangement.

Valcarlos is a lovely , friendly basque village WHICH happens to be the "way" depicted in ancient drawings in Santo Domingo.
If you start in France [ Paris, Vezelay or Le Puy ] then the high road into Spain is definitely not STJPdP but a place called Somport @ 1600m

I have dicky knees and only attempt downhills after a few days of walking.
All the training at home is useless unless you have the pack on your back if trying out the knees.
The first day to Roncesvalles is 25km and when adjusted for difficulty try 32 km.

You should not shed a tear or have any negative thoughts if you commence in Pamplona a saving of 70km.
**Your knees will appreciated being saved the downhills into Roncesvalles and Zubiri and will request the lovely ocean bays in Muxia , a very enjoyable 100km , as a just reward.

Whatever you feel comfortable with Sore Neculai but the figures show many finishing @ Pamplona because of knee problems.

 

[SYates]

"Weak knee" is a bit of a foggy description so without knowing exactly what is wrong with your knee, here my opinions:

As others have already pointed out there are many legitimate starting points of the CF, nearly as many as pilgrims.
Both the descend into Roncesvalles as well as the descend, the next day, into Zubiri are strenuous even for healthy knees.
You can lighten your load in several ways: Luggage transport, staying in Orisson ect, choosing the Valcarlos route.
You should wear a knee brace, if your knee is really weak, plus strengthen it with the appropriate exercises beforehand.

Other "knee challenges" are the Alto de Perdon after Pamplona and the descends from the Cruz de Ferro and O Cebreiro.

Hope that helps, Buen Camino! SY

 

[SabsP]

I would talk it through with a doctor and/ or physiotherapist. I think I will dedicate my next Compostela to my physio
And like others here stated it is not written in stone one should depart from Saint Jean...

 

[handzondeck2]

Plan your days and walk about 10-15km daily to alleviate the pressure on your knee. Also zig zag whe. Going down hills as it will relieve the pressure.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

Hi Sore
Regardless of where you decide to start, becoming very adept with your walking sticks will help you knees (and ankles, hips, back, etc) tremendously over the entire length of the Camino. They help pull you uphill and then if done properly (according to websites I've read) they can take as much as 25% of the load off your knees going downhill (your upper body takes that instead). I don't know about those figures but I can say it made a world of difference for me! I walked in the winter so an additional benefit was the extra stability when I walked through snow, icy roads, muddy patches, etc. Kept me upright a few times when I would have surely ended up on the ground otherwise.
Wherever you start, hope it a great experience for you!
Buen Camino
Jordon

 

[Deleted member 3000]

.is it possible to take a taxi to the next alberque?

It is possible, but it will take time. While the first part of the route is along a road, it has very little vehicle traffic, no cruising taxis. A taxi will need to be summoned from SJPdP or Roncesvalles. If you have mobile phone service, you probably will be able to call yourself. If not, someone will need to call for you when they arrive in Hounto or Orisson. So a taxi will be there several hours later.

Leaving SJPdP you will find a very steep section, fairly short, that will have you wondering whether you are overmatched. Then there will be a gently upward sloping road for an hour, and you will be thinking "this is pretty easy." Then the climb steepens. At about Hounto you will be wondering again what you have gotten yourself into. After Hounto it is relentlessly up with lots of false summits. "Finally. I am at the top," followed by "there is more" as you turn the corner. Eventually you really are at the top. The descent through the forest into Roncesvalles is steep, but not bad when it is dry. If your knee is shot by that point, the descent could be quite treacherous. Before that descent, there is the opportunity to stay on a road that descends to the right to a junction with the Valcarlos route. The Valcarlos route is reasonably gently ascent to Valcarlos, with steep switchbacks to the valley crest after, which is several hundred meters lower elevation than the crest of the Napolean Route. After the switch backs with a trail that cuts across them in good weather, the route is the same as the alternative from the Napolean Route.

There will be more opportunities to phone for a taxi on the Valcarlos Route, which is not "easy" by any means.

 

[mspath]

If you decide to follow the Valcarlos alternate route which is the route I always take since I am old please note that after you leave Valcarlos there are NO services until Roncesvalles. Thus to call a taxi you would need your own phone. Furthermore cell phone signals are not always available due to the mountain route.

 

[Kanga]

Hi @Sore Neculai - knees were my main concern on my first camino too. When much younger I was transported three times off the ski slopes in a stretcher with torn ligaments and cartridges, so my knees really are shot. It is difficult without more information to know if your problem is similar to mine, but for me the answer is good trekking poles and good pole technique. I've also learnt to zigzag down slopes - sometimes to a ridiculous degree. There are a few places where that is not possible, but all have a gentler alternative via a road - take the Valcarlos route out of SJPDP or if you must walk the Napoleon be sure to descend via the road and do not take the route through the beech woods. The descent into Zubriri is also rocky and difficult, horrible if wet and slippery, but you can take the road route instead. The descent from the Alto del Perdon does not worry me - it is wide enough to do the zigzag thing (but use pokes - the stones can be slippery). The last is probably the descent into El Acebo, but by then you will be fit, the muscles around your knees strengthened, and if necessary there is a road alternative (see @mspath posts).
But I agree with others - it does not matter where you start. And yes, taxis are available as long as you are on a road - so check your maps each day and know the difficult stretches and the taxi number

 

[JohnMcM]

hi

I plan on leaving from sjpp on the 17th april. i have a relatively weak knee. .............

Sore

Lot of advice from some knowledgable and experienced folks for you to consider Sore. My own take on your consideration is "Why take the chance and possibly do something that could steal away your Camino from you?". Perhaps the doubt in your mind and your need to ask the question suggests that deep down you might already know that to choose the Valcarlos alternative route, or start from Pamplona is what would give you the best chance completing an enjoyable Camino?

Buen (knee-trouble free) Camino

 

[s. brown]

Hi @Sore Neculai - knees were my main concern on my first camino too. When much younger I was transported three times off the ski slopes in a stretcher with torn ligaments and cartridges, so my knees really are shot. It is difficult without more information to know if your problem is similar to mine, but for me the answer is good trekking poles and good pole technique. I've also learnt to zigzag down slopes - sometimes to a ridiculous degree. There are a few places where that is not possible, but all have a gentler alternative via a road - take the Valcarlos route out of SJPDP or if you must walk the Napoleon be sure to descend via the road and do not take the route through the beech woods. The descent into Zubriri is also rocky and difficult, horrible if wet and slippery, but you can take the road route instead. The descent from the Alto del Perdon does not worry me - it is wide enough to do the zigzag thing (but use pokes - the stones can be slippery). The last is probably the descent into El Acebo, but by then you will be fit, the muscles around your knees strengthened, and if necessary there is a road alternative (see @mspath posts).
But I agree with others - it does not matter where you start. And yes, taxis are available as long as you are on a road - so check your maps each day and know the difficult stretches and the taxi number

What is the zig zag technique?

 

[SYates]

What is the zig zag technique?

Instead of going a path straight down, you zig zag it horizontally from left to right and left again. SY

 

[SabsP]

I did that zig zag techique climbing UP Alto de Mostalares...

 

[Mysticl]

I understand Sore's need to start in SJPP ... I too could be severely challenged on Day 1 and Day 2 (breaking the crossing into 2 days) but for me I am also driven to start in SJPP. I cannot say why exactly but i think it is the challenge of the crossing against all odds that draws me. I am extremely overweight but as fit as someone my size can be and getting stronger with every day that I train ... I walk 8 km every day with one rest day a week and every third day I throw in some rather significant hills to strengthen the leg muscles and feet as well as to test my new boot's limits (I live in BC Canada). As long as I take it slow with plenty of rest breaks to catch my breath and slow my heart rate I find the climbs relatively easy on my legs and feet ... not easy by any means, they are STEEP hills but easily doable when I make allowances and go slow (meaning I am still alive and ready to walk some more after a brief rest when I get to the top) .... the descents are tougher but my Pacer Poles bear the brunt and my knees thank me at the bottom. I know I could take the lower road and I know I could start in Pamplona or Roncesvalles and save myself all this angst but then it wouldn't be MY camino ... it would be someone else's. I am not sure how I would feel if I had known knee problems but you are the best judge of that. Try hills at home ... tough ones ... if your knees object at home then it might be a better idea to either walk to Orrison and take a cab on Day 2 to Roncessvalles to at least experience a bit of the crossing or take the lower route and save yourself some grief ... my plan is to attempt Day one to Orrison (or the virgin) and see how it goes ... after that I will ammend my plans based on the facts on the ground ... if i think I can make it I will walk Day 2 over the top as well (might start at the virgin tho to make it a bit shorter, there is a shuttle apparently, that will drop you there in the morning and/or pick you up in the afternoon with reservations) but again I am not adverse to changing my plans if my body tells me otherwise ... you should too. I'd also advise sending your pack ahead the first couple days to make it a bit easier on your knees ... could help a lot.

 

[domigee]

What is the zig zag technique?

Oops, that 's what I meant when I wrote 'walk sideways'

 

[Brendan Dawson]

hi

I plan on leaving from sjpp on the 17th april. i have a relatively weak knee. i´ve heard that the first 2 days can be quite difficult because of the pyrenees.should i take the risk and start there or should i chose another starting point. is it really that super difficult? if I walk slowly and take 2 walking sticks with me...do u think I´ll manage to not get big knee problems? i have in my head the idea that sjpp is the only real starting point for the french route (for myself).

one more question : 17 april-25 mai should be enough for the whole trip, i guess. (sjpp-finisterre). I am a quite fit person...just my knee is a bit weak.

thanks

Sore

You have already received plenty of sound advice.
Let me add another... I have had both knees replaced and walked from StJeanPdP last year stopping in Orrison the first night (nice Albergue) and then to Roncevalles the second day. The climbs were strenuous but very doable. The downhill to Roncevalles was a b***h and, in trying to save my knees, I tweaked my back and had to abandon in Logrono. The good news is that I was able to return to Logrono after some rest and walk the rest of the way to Santiago.
My bottom line.......if the knee is dodgy, I would start in Roncevalles.
Chech out "Corazon Puro"

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I am not sure I can keep this post from being snarky, but I will put a smiley face on it to help.

Occasionally, I can see prospective pilgrims setting themselves up to fail. It usually comes down to too much enthusiasm, too little preparation, and worst of all, too many expectations and restrictions about success and failure.

Everyone strives to push themselves, but I once again address the idea of non-destructive testing. It is about not finding a limit by passing it, thus causing destruction. I witnessed the return of an aircraft once with substantial damage to the nose, leading edge of a wing, and one engine. The incoming pilot had reported popping noises. Nothing was found, so the plane was cleared for a low level, unpressurized flight to an airfield with better repair capabilities. The outgoing pilot took it upon himself to exceed the normal low level flying speed limit in order to see if he could analyze the popping further. At some speed as he accelerated, the nose cone separated and took out the #2 engine and the leading edge of one wing (losing all the equipment in the nose of the plane in the process). He landed on the three remaining engines. He lost his wings and his career.

Blow a knee or have a heart attack, and the Camino is over. Think about it as you are examining the real reasons for an expectation or a rule. Is it about challenging yourself, or impressing others? No one knows the actual length of the Camino; the route changes too much. The distance markers at the end are known to be wrong. If the "whole thing" is 756km and not 779km, do you want to define your performance as a failure even before you go? If starting at SJPdP when it is beyond your capability causes a monumental fail, was accepting the challenge worth the result?

I understand that many posts are about getting and giving encouragement, and I would always want to be in the group that encourages pilgrims to go. Therefore, the posts that are false modesty about being unfit, underprepared, etc. need a response that says "challenge yourself and see what happens." For the posts that are about real limitations, I am not sure I would be helping with hollow encouragement.

I do not know if someone needs a sleeping bag. It is impossible for me to gauge someone's reaction to cool sleeping temperatures. Similarly, I do not know if someone can make it to Roncesvalles, with or without a backpack. But like they say about the prices at Tiffany's, if you have to ask, then you cannot afford it.

 

[SYates]

Best post ever @falcon269 ! SY

 

[Tincatinker]

What Falcon said. Several times. And why risk it?

 

[tpmchugh]

hi

I plan on leaving from sjpp on the 17th april. i have a relatively weak knee. i´ve heard that the first 2 days can be quite difficult because of the pyrenees.should i take the risk and start there or should i chose another starting point. is it really that super difficult? if I walk slowly and take 2 walking sticks with me...do u think I´ll manage to not get big knee problems? i have in my head the idea that sjpp is the only real starting point for the french route (for myself).

one more question : 17 april-25 mai should be enough for the whole trip, i guess. (sjpp-finisterre). I am a quite fit person...just my knee is a bit weak.

thanks

Sore

On my last camino I met a lady walking with two walking sticks, not hiking poles. She was at least mid sixties and had arthritus in both knees and had walked from St Jean. Unfortunately I did not ask if she went Route Napolean or Valcarlos but either way it would have been tough for her. I met her at Gonzar about 10km past Portomarín. I did not complain once about pain or discomfort after I met her cause I had only walked from Pamplona. By the way, I start two days before you, I am nowhere near fit enough and have a muscle problem in my thigh which has restricted the amount of hill walking I had been doing. So I guess you will probably catch up and pass me before Pamplona. Maybe you should do what I am doing if you are worried. Walk only as far as Orisson on the first day. Looking at the profiles, the really steep part is up to and just beyond Orisson and still steep but not as bad from there on

 

[Sore Neculai]

Do you wear a knee brace when you walk? If your knee is very weak try some strengthening exercises, wear a neoprene brace and take it very easy.

yeah, i´ll wear a knee brace too....to stabilize my knee.

 

[Brendan Dawson]

You have already received plenty of sound advice.
Let me add another... I have had both knees replaced and walked from StJeanPdP last year stopping in Orrison the first night (nice Albergue) and then to Roncevalles the second day. The climbs were strenuous but very doable. The downhill to Roncevalles was a b***h and, in trying to save my knees, I tweaked my back and had to abandon in Logrono. The good news is that I was able to return to Logrono after some rest and walk the rest of the way to Santiago.
My bottom line.......if the knee is dodgy, I would start in Roncevalles.
Chech out "Corazon Puro"

 

[Sore Neculai]

It sounds like SJPdP is still very tempting to you....
Just remember that what is said already a few times, there is no real official starting point for the camino, you can start anywhere. Only need to walk at least 100 km.
Havind said that, SJPdP is a beuatiful place to start, and a challenging.
A thing not mentioned yet is: you can let your packpack be transported that first day. It cost only a few auro's. It is the first thing which can prevent you to go over your knee limit.
The advantage of the valcarlos route are
- less challenging for any knee
- it stays near the main route between SJPdP and Roncevalles. As far as I know it is more easy to hitch or to take a taxi at any moment. To my experience there are just no cars (luckely too) on the Napoleon route, except some farmers. (at least on that one day I walked)
- you can split up the route in 2 equal parts, there is an albergue half way while on the Napoleon route the albergue in Orisson is only after 5 kms. The next day there are stil 22 (?) to go

Wish you a wonderful camino!

hi Thomas.

one of the resons why I really want to start at sjpp is because, from what i know, the landscape offered by the pyrinees is quite spectacular....and i really don´t want to miss this.

I also thought of letting my backpack be transported in the first day to decrease the level of stress for my knee. I will also wear a knee brace ( a good one), walking sticks (which i will buy when i arrive in sjpp because I cannot take any from home with me since I´m traveling (flying)only with handpack), I will try the zigzag way of walking on abrupt paths , probably take not the Napoleon route(but the more easier one) and also at the first sign of knee discomfort take a taxi to the next hostel/albergues.

Also, I still have time to think and take into consideration all of your advices (all of u guys, who gave me advices) and decide spontanously where exactly is better for me to start walking when I arrive in Pamplona´s airport.

thank u all for your advices. what a beautiful community on this forum!

 

[Brendan Dawson]

Whoops....apologies on double post!

 

[Sore Neculai]

We have walked both the high and low?? roads and have a very special spot for Valcarlos.
Orrison is a alberque on a mountain road/path@ 1000m towards the border @ 1400m
You can still get a taxi at this point by arrangement.

Valcarlos is a lovely , friendly basque village WHICH happens to be the "way" depicted in ancient drawings in Santo Domingo.
If you start in France [ Paris, Vezelay or Le Puy ] then the high road into Spain is definitely not STJPdP but a place called Somport @ 1600m

I have dicky knees and only attempt downhills after a few days of walking.
All the training at home is useless unless you have the pack on your back if trying out the knees.
The first day to Roncesvalles is 25km and when adjusted for difficulty try 32 km.

You should not shed a tear or have any negative thoughts if you commence in Pamplona a saving of 70km.
**Your knees will appreciated being saved the downhills into Roncesvalles and Zubiri and will request the lovely ocean bays in Muxia , a very enjoyable 100km , as a just reward.

Whatever you feel comfortable with Sore Neculai but the figures show many finishing @ Pamplona because of knee problems.

hi

I will really take into consideration your advice before taking the decision where to start....mostly because of the last sentence u wrote (ut the figures show many finishing @ Pamplona because of knee problems)....

 

[Brendan Dawson]

hi

I will really take into consideration your advice before taking the decision where to start....mostly because of the last sentence u wrote (ut the figures show many finishing @ Pamplona because of knee problems)....

Buen Camino, whatever your decision!

 

[Sore Neculai]

I am not sure I can keep this post from being snarky, but I will put a smiley face on it to help.

Occasionally, I can see prospective pilgrims setting themselves up to fail. It usually comes down to too much enthusiasm, too little preparation, and worst of all, too many expectations and restrictions about success and failure.

Everyone strives to push themselves, but I once again address the idea of non-destructive testing. It is about not finding a limit by passing it, thus causing destruction. I witnessed the return of an aircraft once with substantial damage to the nose, leading edge of a wing, and one engine. The incoming pilot had reported popping noises. Nothing was found, so the plane was cleared for a low level, unpressurized flight to an airfield with better repair capabilities. The outgoing pilot took it upon himself to exceed the normal low level flying speed limit in order to see if he could analyze the popping further. At some speed as he accelerated, the nose cone separated and took out the #2 engine and the leading edge of one wing (losing all the equipment in the nose of the plane in the process). He landed on the three remaining engines. He lost his wings and his career.

Blow a knee or have a heart atIs it about challenging yourself, or impressing others? No one knows the actual length of the Camino; the rotack, and the Camino is over. Think about it as you are examining the real reasons for an expectation or a rule. ute changes too much. The distance markers at the end are known to be wrong. If the "whole thing" is 756km and not 779km, do you want to define your performance as a failure even before you go? If starting at SJPdP when it is beyond your capability causes a monumental fail, was accepting the challenge worth the result?

I understand that many posts are about getting and giving encouragement, and I would always want to be in the group that encourages pilgrims to go. Therefore, the posts that are false modesty about being unfit, underprepared, etc. need a response that says "challenge yourself and see what happens." For the posts that are about real limitations, I am not sure I would be helping with hollow encouragement.

I do not know if someone needs a sleeping bag. It is impossible for me to gauge someone's reaction to cool sleeping temperatures. Similarly, I do not know if someone can make it to Roncesvalles, with or without a backpack. But like they say about the prices at Tiffany's, if you have to ask, then you cannot afford it.[/QUOTE

I must say that I like your straigh forward way of saying things....and you are right with

I am not sure I can keep this post from being snarky, but I will put a smiley face on it to help.

Occasionally, I can see prospective pilgrims setting themselves up to fail. It usually comes down to too much enthusiasm, too little preparation, and worst of all, too many expectations and restrictions about success and failure.

Everyone strives to push themselves, but I once again address the idea of non-destructive testing. It is about not finding a limit by passing it, thus causing destruction. I witnessed the return of an aircraft once with substantial damage to the nose, leading edge of a wing, and one engine. The incoming pilot had reported popping noises. Nothing was found, so the plane was cleared for a low level, unpressurized flight to an airfield with better repair capabilities. The outgoing pilot took it upon himself to exceed the normal low level flying speed limit in order to see if he could analyze the popping further. At some speed as he accelerated, the nose cone separated and took out the #2 engine and the leading edge of one wing (losing all the equipment in the nose of the plane in the process). He landed on the three remaining engines. He lost his wings and his career.

Blow a knee or have a heart attack, and the Camino is over. Think about it as you are examining the real reasons for an expectation or a rule. Is it about challenging yourself, or impressing others? No one knows the actual length of the Camino; the route changes too much. The distance markers at the end are known to be wrong. If the "whole thing" is 756km and not 779km, do you want to define your performance as a failure even before you go? If starting at SJPdP when it is beyond your capability causes a monumental fail, was accepting the challenge worth the result?

I understand that many posts are about getting and giving encouragement, and I would always want to be in the group that encourages pilgrims to go. Therefore, the posts that are false modesty about being unfit, underprepared, etc. need a response that says "challenge yourself and see what happens." For the posts that are about real limitations, I am not sure I would be helping with hollow encouragement.

I do not know if someone needs a sleeping bag. It is impossible for me to gauge someone's reaction to cool sleeping temperatures. Similarly, I do not know if someone can make it to Roncesvalles, with or without a backpack. But like they say about the prices at Tiffany's, if you have to ask, then you cannot afford it.

 

[Sore Neculai]

I am not sure I can keep this post from being snarky, but I will put a smiley face on it to help.

Occasionally, I can see prospective pilgrims setting themselves up to fail. It usually comes down to too much enthusiasm, too little preparation, and worst of all, too many expectations and restrictions about success and failure.

Everyone strives to push themselves, but I once again address the idea of non-destructive testing. It is about not finding a limit by passing it, thus causing destruction. I witnessed the return of an aircraft once with substantial damage to the nose, leading edge of a wing, and one engine. The incoming pilot had reported popping noises. Nothing was found, so the plane was cleared for a low level, unpressurized flight to an airfield with better repair capabilities. The outgoing pilot took it upon himself to exceed the normal low level flying speed limit in order to see if he could analyze the popping further. At some speed as he accelerated, the nose cone separated and took out the #2 engine and the leading edge of one wing (losing all the equipment in the nose of the plane in the process). He landed on the three remaining engines. He lost his wings and his career.

Blow a knee or have a heart attack, and the Camino is over. Think about it as you are examining the real reasons for an expectation or a rule. Is it about challenging yourself, or impressing others? No one knows the actual length of the Camino; the route changes too much. The distance markers at the end are known to be wrong. If the "whole thing" is 756km and not 779km, do you want to define your performance as a failure even before you go? If starting at SJPdP when it is beyond your capability causes a monumental fail, was accepting the challenge worth the result?

I understand that many posts are about getting and giving encouragement, and I would always want to be in the group that encourages pilgrims to go. Therefore, the posts that are false modesty about being unfit, underprepared, etc. need a response that says "challenge yourself and see what happens." For the posts that are about real limitations, I am not sure I would be helping with hollow encouragement.

I do not know if someone needs a sleeping bag. It is impossible for me to gauge someone's reaction to cool sleeping temperatures. Similarly, I do not know if someone can make it to Roncesvalles, with or without a backpack. But like they say about the prices at Tiffany's, if you have to ask, then you cannot afford it.

I must say that I like you´re straight forward way of saying things.. I think I would say the same thing to new pilgrims if I would have your experience. I think one of my problems is also that ,as u said,

Is it about challenging yourself, or impressing others?

. i mean, maybe I m still to immature to accept the fact that maybe pushing myself to start at SJPP is a bit stupid and a risk not worth taking ...just because I think that I won´t be that proud of myself while telling my friends that I didn´t managed to start from the "official/unofficial" starting point.at the end of the day I do this for me and what counts is what that road and time spent only on focusing on that road (without the extra distractions that life gives us) has to teach me and not if my number of kilometers is equal or less than what it is considered to be the whole of the route frances.

yeah... u, soooo got me there.

 

[Sore Neculai]

u know what?!

u all, managed to convince me that the best decision is to start at pamplona. afterall, there´s where I land, and also , I really wanted on my way back home to visit barcelona for a day or two...so maybe if I start at pamplona and everything goes ok, I will be able to see barcelona for at least one day...(barcelona is my favorite city and seeing sagrada famiglia is my dream , because I love gaudi)...

I think , you all , managed to show me what I didn´t want to see because i am stubborn.

so, on the 17 of april I start from pamplona and on 25 mai is my last free day(from work). if I reach santiago, maybe I havetime to reach finnistere and muxia too (on foot or by bus; just to see the ocean) AND than I am almost sure I´ll have time to give myself a present (in form of sitting in front of the most breathtaking building ever...sagrada famiglia).

what do u think of this plan?

 

[rometimed]

u know what?!

u all, managed to convince me that the best decision is to start at pamplona. afterall, there´s where I land, and also , I really wanted on my way back home to visit barcelona for a day or two...so maybe if I start at pamplona and everything goes ok, I will be able to see barcelona for at least one day...(barcelona is my favorite city and seeing sagrada famiglia is my dream , because I love gaudi)...

I think , you all , managed to show me what I didn´t want to see because i am stubborn.

so, on the 17 of april I start from pamplona and on 25 mai is my last free day(from work). if I reach santiago, maybe I havetime to reach finnistere and muxia too (on foot or by bus; just to see the ocean) AND than I am almost sure I´ll have time to give myself a present (in form of sitting in front of the most breathtaking building ever...sagrada famiglia).

what do u think of this plan?

Lovely SN!

Just think if you come back to do it from SJPdP (or further) you'll be a pro for a good chunk of it 8)

 

[SYates]

... just because I think that I won´t be that proud of myself while telling my friends that I didn´t managed to start from the "official/unofficial" starting point.at the end of the day I do this for me ...

Unless you start from your own door step, there is nothing like an official/traditional starting point. Do the Camino for yourself and for whatever spiritual reasons you might have and forget about what others tell you to do! SY

 

[SYates]

... what do u think of this plan?

Looks good to me! Guten Weg! SY

 

[mspath]

Glad that your have now found your way! Since you love Gaudi be sure to see his Archbishop's palace in Astorga. Do go inside to see some of his original furniture and special wall tiles. Now the building houses a camino museum. Also in Leon Gaudi designed the Casa Botines near the cathedral. Buen camino.

 

[alexwalker]

I'll chime in,

Falcon & Thornley + others have given you very wise advice.

Why risk your whole Camino only for challenging yourself with the hardest day/2 days of the whole Camino: The walk from SJpdP to Roncesvalles?

The climb to the top is hard for a fit person. I would say even if you stay at Orrison, diving into 2 days. The descent to Roncesvalles was much tougher than I had imagined; and my knees are perfect. Most of the stretch (up to the top) is on a road. Problem is: There is no traffic there. Only (a couple of) farmers. I never saw a vehichle. You will have to call for a taxi in an emergency. And it will take hours, as said earlier.

There is no defeat in starting from Roncesvalles/Pamplona. I have started from SJpdP and Pamplona. If/when I go again, I will begin in Roncesvalles. If you have doubt about your knees, I would advice you to start in Roncesvalles or Pamplona: They will both give you a nice beginning for your Camino.

I have written it before somewhere on this forum, but will repeat: As a sea captain, I always follow the saying:

"If you are in doubt, act as if there is no doubt." It has saved many lives.

Wishing you a safe and (complete) Buen Camino!

 

[alexwalker]

...maybe I m still to immature to accept the fact that maybe pushing myself to start at SJPP is a bit stupid and a risk not worth taking ...just because I think that I won´t be that proud of myself while telling my friends that I didn´t managed to start from the "official/unofficial" starting point.at the end of the day I do this for me and what counts is what that road and time spent only on focusing on that road (without the extra distractions that life gives us) has to teach me and not if my number of kilometers is equal or less than what it is considered to be the whole of the route frances.

Who am I to argue with you? IMHO, you have made a very wise decision, and your chances of reaching Santiago have greatly increased!

So let me tell you a little more: Starting from Pamplona is GREAT: The first day, you climb just a little up to Alto de Perdon, and you'll have a beautiful view of the Navarra district. A short downhill after that, and you are walking in great landscape. It is a very good start, and not difficult.

I now have high hopes for u!

BTW: Here is a little tool where you can plan your days and see where there are uphills/downhills: http://www.godesalco.com/plan

Also, I have found this guide to be all I need for planning my stays; http://www.csj.org.uk/product/camino-frances/

Also, check out the rest of their website: Much friendly info there.

 

[alexwalker]

I should also say that my very first Camino in 2009 was started from Pamplona: It did not take away 1 single gram of joy from the walk! On the contrary.

Do the Camino for yourself and for whatever spiritual reasons you might have and forget about what others tell you to do! SY

Perfect advice!

 

[Sore Neculai]

I should also say that my very first Camino in 2009 was started from Pamplona: It did not take away 1 singre gram of joy from the walk! On the contrary.


Perfect advice!

I´m now in peace with my decision .thank u

 

[canis_major]

I´m now in peace with my decision .thank u

Glad you found "The Way", Sore. Your very own personal "Camino".

 

[Thornley]

What is the zig zag technique?

Have you ever seen a "drunken sailor" walking home ??

 

[Thornley]

I´m now in peace with my decision .thank u

Buen Camino Sore ,
When you reach Muxia there is a wonderful German lady with the best wine bar [ opens @ 4pm for 4 hours only] and beautiful accommodation.
Stay there and later sit in the shallows on the beach and reflect on what you have achieved.

 

[GreatDane]

I blew my knee out (sprained LCL and torn meniscus) in mid June 2014 with no time for surgery and rehab and chose to start the Frances in Bizkaretta (mid-September). Loved it!!!! KT tape was my best friend.

 

[C clearly]

Good decision. I might get roundly criticized for this comment, but I'll be brave. You said, and others say all the time that

one of the resons why I really want to start at sjpp is because, from what i know, the landscape offered by the pyrinees is quite spectacular....and i really don´t want to miss this.

Certainly the landscape is lovely, especially when you work so hard to get there and are so excited about day one of the journey! But it is not so spectacular that you should risk the rest of the journey. I think that people overstate the case - the first day is so exciting that it almost doesn't matter where you start. You will see many other vistas that feel just as beautiful.

 

[Thornley]

Good decision. I might get roundly criticized for this comment, but I'll be brave. You said, and others say all the time that



Certainly the landscape is lovely, especially when you work so hard to get there and are so excited about day one of the journey! But it is not so spectacular that you should risk the rest of the journey. I think that people overstate the case - the first day is so exciting that it almost doesn't matter where you start. You will see many other vistas that feel just as beautiful.

The wilderness in The Aubrac [ Le Puy ] 800km before STJPP proves your point C .
And if they want elevation then Somport starting 4 days earlier will give them an extra 300m .

 

[Kanga]

Good decision @Sore Neculai . And you know what? Half the time people go to a huge effort to walk from SJPDP only to find the mountains are covered in mist and cloud and there are no views at all. Save the sightseeing for another day, give your Camino every chance.

 

[s. brown]

Instead of going a path straight down, you zig zag it horizontally from left to right and left again. SY

Thanks. I get it now, and it's true -- sort of like a drunken sailor.

 

[GettingThere]

Really sensible advice here, and good to hear you've reached a decision you are happy with, @Sore Neculai . The wise words above have also reassured me, as I have recently made the decision to start my Camino from Roncesvalles, rather than from St Jean as planned. My joints are OK, but I had major abdominal surgery less than 6 months ago (causing a delay to my Camino originally planned for last September) and my fitness hasn't returned quite as fully as I had hoped it would by now. I had started to worry about the first part of the walk, even though I was planning on the Valcarlos route and stopping overnight there, with that long uphill the second day. With 32 days until departure from home I've decided that I don't want to risk ruining the whole thing by overdoing it at the start, so my mother and I will now start walking from Roncesvalles with the first few days very short. As soon as I made the decision it felt as though a huge weight I hadn't know was there lifted off my shoulders. Like @Sore Neculai I'm now at peace with this decision and looking forward more than ever to getting started!

 

[Walter1407]

We don't know the exact condition of your knee, so the best person to ask would be your (specialist) doctor. Downhill is usually the problem for knees, not uphill.
I did the Napoleon route, and though the down to Roncesvalles is not very long, it is rough and tough on the knees. I don't know the Valcarlos route, but I hear it is easier.
There is no "real" starting point on the Camino. SJPP is popular. The most traditional starting point in France is Le-Puy-en-Velay. But that would double your distance and take you through lots of up and down.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

Hi Mysticl
I was living in Campbell River when I was conditioning and one of my routes was up the road to Mt Washington. Great to build up your endurance and strength!! Good luck in May - When you hit the hills of Galicia you'll feel like you're at home!
Jordon