Have you walked both the Plata and the Frances

[Aidan21]

Hi,

I have just finished walking from Sevilla to Salamanca along the Via and have previously walked the Frances twice. I noticed many differences in my experiences on both routes. I wonder if anyone else has walked both and how they felt them to be different.

Personally I enjoyed the Frances much more than the Via. If the Via was my first Camino, then it would be a case of one and done. I found it hard to get a positive buzz from walking the Via, whereas I loved walking the Frances. I know it has been said that the Frances is getting more commercialised and of course many more people are walking the Frances and in some ways this can detract from the pilgrimage, but I experienced many meaningful personal interactions along the Frances but few along the Via.

I also noticed that in the rural parts of Spain through which I walked little or no effort was expended to meet the needs of the peringrinos. Frequently the walking day ended just as siesta was beginning and it could be difficult to find places open (including Albergues). And of course finding somewhere to serve food at that time of day could be a challenge and worse still it could be after 8 pm before bars/cafes were open to serve dinner. Whereas on the Frances, finding somewhere to eat/drink/rest/talk etc. was very easy and added positively to the whole experience.

Finally some of the stretches on the Via could be more than 30 Kms long with no human habitation in between. So food and water had to be carried, which for me took away a little from the enjoyment of walking - it was a day's tough hike instead of an enjoyable walk that could be shared (or not if you so choose) with other pilgrims.

All of the above is just my personal experience, neither right or wrong, but I would be interested in how others may have found the routes to be different.

Aidan

 

[amancio]

Vía de la Plata in April/May is the most spiritual of all Caminos, unique, my favourite! It is different to Francés, and I love it precisely for that reason.

 

[Bradypus]

I have walked the Camino Frances three times and the VdlP once. I would agree with most of what you say about facilities and numbers and the comparative difficulty of the VdlP. However what I conclude from that is very different. If I walked the Frances as my first Camino today then it is very unlikely I would have finished the walk. I do not look for the "buzz" you enjoy - I far prefer solitude. The quiet beauty of the VdlP is worth all the extra effort that walking it demands. Each to their own.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I've walked the Frances several times and the VDLP once.
I prefer the VDLP.
It's quieter, and more beautiful, in my opinion.
I'd love to do it again someday.

 

[C clearly]

First, you walked it in a season when I wouldn't enjoy it either - too hot and therefore probably too few walker companions.

The VDLP calls on more self-sufficiency. It is true that there was less catering to pilgrims than on the Frances where every need is immediately met. I liked that - I felt that I was walking through Spain rather than being on a pilgrim train. I enjoyed the Frances too, but the VDLP suits me better. I wouldn't walk it in summer, though.

 

[Albertagirl]

@Aidan21
I have walked both routes and my experience was somewhat similar to yours, but perhaps for different reasons. I found the first half of the VdlP to be uncomfortably hot and dry (beginning on Oct. 3, 2017). My memories of the scenery are of hot, dusty gravel roads through flat farmland. I was not interested in the Roman ruins which are the main points of tourist interest along the route. I missed any pilgrim focus: I think that I was only able to attend two or three evening masses during the fifty days that I walked that camino. I was happy enough to walk alone and able to manage any lack of facilities or convenient hours. I much preferred the scenery on the Sanabres and the better availability of albergues. I see the VdlP as a suitable long walk during more comfortable weather, but with little for me as a pilgrim.

 

[Anton Muhlbock]

I have walked the Frances and finished the Norte two month ago.
I am thinking of doing the Vdlp in 2 weeks, not sure about it, i could do the Frances again.
My partner isn't coming this time so a new experience for me.
I know it would be hard for me a bit easier on the Frances

 

[domigee]

@Aidan21
I have walked both routes and my experience was somewhat similar to yours, but perhaps for different reasons. I found the first half of the VdlP to be uncomfortably hot and dry (beginning on Oct. 3, 2017). My memories of the scenery are of hot, dusty gravel roads through flat farmland. I was not interested in the Roman ruins which are the main points of tourist interest along the route. I missed any pilgrim focus: I think that I was only able to attend two or three evening masses during the fifty days that I walked that camino. I was happy enough to walk alone and able to manage any lack of facilities or convenient hours. I much preferred the scenery on the Sanabres and the better availability of albergues. I see the VdlP as a suitable long walk during more comfortable weather, but with little for me as a pilgrim.

I didn’t really enjoy the VdlP, it didn’t feel like a pilgrimage to me. Why? I don’t know! My normal reaction would be to do it again but I can’t, I was sooooo scared of these thousands of cows in Extremadura. Never again.
I don’t mind the long distances but it may put off some people. I don’t mind - although I complained bitterly at the time - the fact that THREE cafés were mentioned in the guide book but NONE were opened at the time... lol
I am not sure why I didn’t like it.
My husband didn’t either.
For once we were very happy to reach Santiago.
As a by-the-by, we met a couple of lovely people (I am still in touch with) but on the whole... we didn’t get on with the other (few) pilgrims, far from it. And I think that coloured my experience. Thinking back about it, it was a nightmare! But hey!

 

[Bradypus]

we didn’t get on with the other pilgrims, far from it. And I think that coloured my experience. Thinking back about it, it was a nightmare! But hey!

I had company most days from Sevilla to Bejar where I had to stop with a knee injury. I returned a couple of months later. I walked the rest of the way from Bejar to Santiago in winter and met only 5 pilgrims in 20 days walking. I shared an albergue with another pilgrim on only 3 of those nights. So there was very rarely anyone to get on with or to fall out with. Perfect

 

[alhartman]

I agree with most of the observations. I finished VDLP near the end of November 2008. I loved the walking and the solitude, but the infrastructure was mostly non-existent at that time of year. I absolutely loved Zamora on to Santiago, (did a bit of train shuttle after Sanabria). But there was never a 'Camino family' and I met only 5 pilgrims until Ourense. And meals were mostly out of my pack (think GORP). But I am a big fan of solitude.

 

[Houlet]

I have walked both and thoroughly enjoyed both but found them to be quite different. The Frances is much more social but I found that I walked LONGER distances on the Frances. Because the VdlP has fewer albergues often the choice is 25 or 50 km wheras on the CF after 25 km it's usually possible to go another 5 or 10 as the mood grabs you. I found the people much the same and I keep in touch with friends I met on both.

 

[Waka]

Interesting comments on the two camino's, I start the vdll at the beginning of Feb next year. I like many others have found the CF too commercial especially the closer to SDC you get. For me the infrastructure is what it is, myself I don't want there to be coffee shops every 10 km, for me it's a pilgrimage and with that comes solitude.
I'll let you know my honest opinion around May next year.

 

[Deleted member 73526]

On VDLP, I spent some days without meeting other pilgrims, but I never felt lonely. Walking in solitude felt like a meditation. By contrast, when I walked from Santiago to Finisterre, I fell in with a lovely group of people and the walk felt like a celebration. The only time that I felt lonely was the day that I walked from Finisterre to Muxia and walked side by side with two young people, who inserted earbuds and ignored each other and me.

 

[peregrino_tom]

Back in 2010 I was told the VdlP was like the CF twenty years earlier. That's probably largely still true. Imagine that. With all its unsmoothened rural edges and wide open space, often not really bothered about whether you are on it or not, and pot luck as to whether you'll meet any or many pilgrims, or anything will be open in the day, or at all on Sunday.
Is it harder to feel the value of the VldP, for someone coming from the CF as a first camino where 24/7 facilities are the norm and everything around them confirms them as 'the pilgrim', designated to receive said facilities?
On the VdlP you might be just another dusty hobo passing across the plain of old spain, but with trekking shoes and a nice phone.

 

[Bradypus]

Back in 2010 I was told the VdlP was like the CF twenty years earlier. That's probably largely still true. Imagine that.

That would make it similar to the Camino Frances of 1990 - the year of my first Camino. What you were told in 2010 sounds just about right to me. In the summer of 1990 it was quite possible to walk for several days on the Camino Frances without encountering another pilgrim. There were stages where it was necessary to cover 30+km to reach the next possible accommodation and many villages had no bars, shops or refugios. It was also possible in places to cover 10 or 15km without a reliable water source. Many refugios had only cold water and a few had no furniture - simply floor space on which to lay a sleeping mat. An example may make the scale of the change clearer: the Gronze website now lists six different albergues or hostals in Foncebadon. In 1990 the village had a population of 1 person - all the other buildings having been completely abandoned. Numbers on the VdlP have increased since 2010 but not by an enormous amount compared with some other routes. I fell in love with walking in Spain on my first Camino and the type of experience which I still look for is far closer in spirit to that 1990 journey than to the Camino Frances of 2018. The Via de la Plata is as close as I have come to recapturing my early Camino joy as I have found on any Spanish walk so far.

 

[Aidan21]

Thanks everyone for your replies. There is no right or wrong response and everyone's experience is valid. For me, on the Via (and I cope with solitude very very well), I missed the interesting and enlightening human interactions I experienced on the Frances. Pilgrimage is many things, solitude and introspection for sure, but for me it is also an opportunity to make links and bonds with other fellow travelers and to grow from those experiences.
Or perhaps I just like the idea of the CF as an easy walk where my basic needs are met in an easy way. I am in my 60s and special forces training is not my thing nor running around some rural town hoping to find some shop or café opened so that I do not go hungry or thirsty.
But each to our own and long may diversity be respected by all.
Aidan

 

[Camino Chrissy]

All great comments, the yin and yang of the VdP, as I've noticed on other threads before this one. I am confused if I would ever choose to walk it, because I now find myself looking for routes somewhere in the "middle" of all the opinions of the Plata!

 

[C clearly]

I now find myself looking for routes somewhere in the "middle" of all the opinions of the Plata!

I think that in the spring, the VDLP does fit in that middle ground, which is why I especially like it.

 

[Deleted member 83944]

C clearly I recognise that concrete arrow! I think the type of pilgrim on the VDLP can be very different. There are a lot more older and very seasoned walkers, and not many party animals. So even when you do walk with others, it's a very different vibe. And it can be very hard: I walked from Salamanca to Sanabria this summer during the heat wave.

 

[Robo]

C clearly I recognise that concrete arrow! I think the type of pilgrim on the VDLP can be very different. There are a lot more older and very seasoned walkers, and not many party animals. So even when you do walk with others, it's a very different vibe. And it can be very hard: I walked from Salamanca to Sanabria this summer during the heat wave.

Sounding better all the time

 

[Jim Michie]

The middle, you mentioned, may be the Norte. Not as crowded as the Frances, the distances are manageable, good accommodations (sometimes not in a albergue) and diverse scenery.

Jim Michie

 

[Kkort]

Hi,

I have just finished walking from Sevilla to Salamanca along the Via and have previously walked the Frances twice. I noticed many differences in my experiences on both routes. I wonder if anyone else has walked both and how they felt them to be different.

Personally I enjoyed the Frances much more than the Via. If the Via was my first Camino, then it would be a case of one and done. I found it hard to get a positive buzz from walking the Via, whereas I loved walking the Frances. I know it has been said that the Frances is getting more commercialised and of course many more people are walking the Frances and in some ways this can detract from the pilgrimage, but I experienced many meaningful personal interactions along the Frances but few along the Via.

I also noticed that in the rural parts of Spain through which I walked little or no effort was expended to meet the needs of the peringrinos. Frequently the walking day ended just as siesta was beginning and it could be difficult to find places open (including Albergues). And of course finding somewhere to serve food at that time of day could be a challenge and worse still it could be after 8 pm before bars/cafes were open to serve dinner. Whereas on the Frances, finding somewhere to eat/drink/rest/talk etc. was very easy and added positively to the whole experience.

Finally some of the stretches on the Via could be more than 30 Kms long with no human habitation in between. So food and water had to be carried, which for me took away a little from the enjoyment of walking - it was a day's tough hike instead of an enjoyable walk that could be shared (or not if you so choose) with other pilgrims.

All of the above is just my personal experience, neither right or wrong, but I would be interested in how others may have found the routes to be different.

Aidan

I too, did the Via de la Plata after walking de Frances twice. I loved it for all the reasons you did not. Solitude, no commercialism, camaraderie with pilgrims you meet day after day because there are no other options, and so many kind Spaniards not affected by the crowds of the Frances.

 

[LTfit]

The Plata was my second Camino after doing the Francés from St. Jean the year before (holy year 2010). As others have said, that which you did not like - less infrastructure, fewer pilgrims, longer stages is what brought me back to the Plata several times.

For me the Plata is the real thing and by that I mean Spain, rural Spain with all that it entails. I never went hungry as I ate lunch when the Spanish do and dinner was rarely needed because of the huge tapas you are given for free with drinks. There was always something open but not every 5 km (or even 10 km) as on the Francés.

The bottom line is that one needs to carry water and snacks and be prepared for less "socializing". For me there was in turn the reward of great open expanses and contact with locals. But it is clearly not for everyone.

I've walked it in the summer, fall and winter and met a small group of pilgrims each time. Nothing like the Levante or the Mozárabe where you may see no one. Spring is the busiest month I hear.

Luckily there are many Caminos to choose from.

 

[laineylainey]

On the VdLP at the moment so I am really interested to read the different experiences. For me I started the Frances in 2012 and just loved it but then I had no previous experience of a "camino". The years since has been a different walk and a whole different experience. I did a bit of the Mozárabe last Dec and really experienced solitude and a little anxiety as I met no-one and the local awareness of the route was quite limited.
Back to the VdLP, the thing that really stands out for me is the friendliness of local people but yes I would agree there is less of a Camino feel to it given there are few people walking it. I even had a feeling a couple of days after leaving Mérida, that perhaps I wouldn't walk another Camino, but I now put that down to having a bad cold! Given the unexpected high temperatures and long stages, we are just a bit weary I think at the end of each day and yes, the average age of walkers isn't in the thirties? But then it's the whole experience for me of walking in this truly beautiful country and being grateful that I can! But yes isn't that the wonderful thing about what we are all doing -each camino, each day, even just round the next corner- it's all just a new adventure, sometimes a great experience, sometimes a right pain in the bum ( and other parts of the body!)and everything in between.
Buen Camino a todos.

 

[Bradypus]

Back to the VdLP, the thing that really stands out for me is the friendliness of local people but yes I would agree there is less of a Camino feel to it given there are few people walking it.

"less of a Camino feel"? Not sure I understand what you mean. What is a "Camino feel" and in what way does the VdlP lack it? To me the VdlP is far more the Camino I first knew and loved than the Camino Frances today which in my less cheerful moments I am sadly coming to consider a lost cause.

 

[Deleted member 83944]

I guess VDLP generally lacks that whole pilgrim-made artefact thing, that you get on the CF, like piles of knick knacks, funny little graffitis, crosses made of grass in the wire fences etc, the most substantial being at the cruz de hierro. I felt like I was part of a bigger historical thing to do with the Romans, transhumant agriculture, etc, but felt less of a sense of being part of a historical flow of pilgrims. Some more recent monuments have tried to make up for this, eg the round stone pillars with the metal pilgrim staffs. But to me it does feel like more 'real Spain' if less 'classic Camino'.

 

[Bradypus]

But to me it does feel like more 'real Spain' if less 'classic Camino'.

I think you have probably put your finger on my main grump about the Camino Frances now. On my first journey the towns and villages were essentially the same as anywhere else in rural Spain. The Camino infrastructure was little more than the yellow arrows and some pretty basic refugios at intervals of 20 or 30km or so. With sometimes fewer than half a dozen pilgrims passing through a town each day pilgrims barely registered at all in the life of a village and left almost no visible traces behind them. Pilgrims were such a novelty that in almost every town someone would stop me for a chat and to shake my hand or pat me on the back and wish me "Buen camino". The Camino Frances has now become such a huge self-sustaining and self-absorbed business that in many ways it exists as something apart from the places through which it passes.

 

[Deleted member 83944]

I think a lot of people are surprised by how much harder the VDLP feels than the CF. I walked with a Spanish friend from Salamanca to near Sanabria in August and she was slightly horrified! She has previously done CF and Ingles. She was like 'there's no shade, no water, no nothing '. I was like 'yeah I know it was like this all the way from Sevilla'.

 

[laineylainey]

I guess VDLP generally lacks that whole pilgrim-made artefact thing, that you get on the CF, like piles of knick knacks, funny little graffitis, crosses made of grass in the wire fences etc, the most substantial being at the cruz de hierro. I felt like I was part of a bigger historical thing to do with the Romans, transhumant agriculture, etc, but felt less of a sense of being part of a historical flow of pilgrims. Some more recent monuments have tried to make up for this, eg the round stone pillars with the metal pilgrim staffs. But to me it does feel like more 'real Spain' if less 'classic Camino'.

Thank you @masomenos "more real Spain if less classic Camino" sums up exactly my current experience of the VdLP

 

[Camino Chrissy]

The middle, you mentioned, may be the Norte. Not as crowded as the Frances, the distances are manageable, good accommodations (sometimes not in a albergue) and diverse scenery.

Jim Michie

Yes, I agree. I've walked the Norte and Primitivo already, so am now looking for other "middle" routes.

 

[Deleted member 83944]

@Camino Chris I think it depends on your level of Spanish and maybe French or German. Don't be put off by the physical privations of the VDLP, I know them only too well, I was there during the heat wave this August. With a sensible, unhurried attitude and proper preparation they can be overcome. Actually my friend who found it so hard going at first, really enjoyed it in the end and we have a firm plan to continue to Santiago next year. But if you are dependent on the very few English speaking pilgrims for your only conversation, you'll probably won't enjoy it much. Also I disagree with @Aidan21 that on the VDLP

little or no effort was expended to meet the needs of the perigrinos

Yes you have to stick to Spanish mealtimes, it's not a 24/7 smorgasbord. But I have received plenty of outstanding kindness and hospitality on the VDLP.

 

[Youren2010]

It is interesting reading your posts about differences between CF and VDIP, it is great that they are distibquishly different, so people are clearly divided, most go CF and less come VDIP, which is perfect. We do not need another CF like route.

I walked both in the summer month, June to July, 5 years a part. I am very glad that as someone who never walked more than 15km a day before did the CF first. I am also very happy that I did VDIP this year without repeat CF, especially when I saw groups of groups of people in very close proximity walking into Santiago on the day I walked in from a different direction. I knew what route they walked!!! I am not even counting school kids or pathfinders among them.

I like that every route in the Camino system is different. From what I learnt and felt, the Camino Ingles is the least interesting. I like to try Primitive, Portugal, Norte or part of Monzarabe in the South or other route starting in other European country whenever I can.

No camino will be the same, even if one repeats the same route, but if ask me to choose which one to walk it again, no doubt, VDIP.

 

[Kanga]

Interesting that people comment on the "solitary" nature of the VdlP. I often walked alone, but found wonderful companions on the Via, and formed lasting friendships. So much so that one is taking time off work to walk a few days with me into SDC on my upcoming Portuguese. It was rather the same on the Madrid route. I did not expect to meet anyone but did, and our little group bonded very tightly.

 

[Pierre Julian]

They're great in such different ways. I'm glad I did the Frances first, that will always be my apprenticeship in the Camino spirit etc. and the CdF is my home Camino. I don't think I would have lasted one day on the Via if I hadn't had the other experiences. That said, I loved the solitariness of the Via, and relished the lack of crowds. In winter it is stunning, I made some good friends on it, though they all left after a week and I was on my own for ages after. I'm not an early riser, so arriving into villages and towns late afternoon was no problem.

 

[Justin519]

I walked from Seville to Astorga and from there to Santiago in March and April 2017 as a first camino.
For me it was more about the people i walked with and met on the way. I am very glad to have had both camino experiences in one journey as they were very different. I felt the CF was lot easier overall and much busier but the VDLP was more spiritual for me and the locals just fantsstic on both. Amazing memories.