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Help from German Pilgrims

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
Is discharge same as graduation?
I don't think it is, the German dictionary does not mention it.

I cannot quite read the name of the school, I guess it is Hortbildungsschule, horticultural school. Bildung is education. At the time (1884), education in Germany was a large hotchpotch of schools, institutions and regulations that might vary per region, even within the various German Länder.

Do you know the age of your great grandmother at the time? This may give you an indication.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
CF April 4- May 12, 2018
CP April 2019
She was born 1869 so that would make her around 15, thats why i considered graduation. Thank you for your help the camino forum answers not just Camino questions😊
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
I cannot quite read the name of the school, I guess it is Hortbildungsschule,
It is Fortbildungsschule. They were created in the late 1800s and continued well into the 20th century. The date on the document is 1884 btw. No graduation as such and no school exam at the end. They would be attended by young people who were in vocational training with a craftsman, or perhaps in a household (apprentice cook), or similar, basically apprenticeship. It's part of the dual education system, something that Germany is renowned for I think.
 
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sugargypsy

Member
Camino(s) past & future
First one planned for May 2019: Camino Francés
Forbach seems to be a local community of the Black Forrest in South Germany - at least I did not find any other place in Germany named Forbach.

Though at the time the certificate was written, Forbach was a part of Elsaß-Lothringen which was in 1884 part of the German Reich.

I live quite "close" (about 100 km away), so if you have any further questions I'd be glad to be of help 💫.
 
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MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
Forbach seems to be a local community of the Black Forrest in South Germany - at least I did not find any other place in Germany named Forbach.

Though at the time the certificate was written, Forbach was a part of Elsaß-Lothringen which was in 1884 part of the German Reich.

I live quite "close" (about 100 km away), so if you have any further questions I'd be glad to be of help 💫.
There are two places named Forbach.
One is near Baden-Baden in Baden-Württemberg in Germany, the other is the Moselle region of France next to Saarbrücken, Germany.

The Wunsch family originates from Forbach, Germany.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way + voie de Tours + CF + Gulf of Biscay + English Channel)
There are two places named Forbach.
One is near Baden-Baden in Baden-Württemberg in Germany
Oh, this is fun 🙂. The coat of arms at the top of the document points to Baden and the former margrave of Baden. The signatures read Krämer (Bürgermeister) and Hofmann (Hauptlehrer), ie the family names of the mayor and the principal teacher. Note the different types of handwriting, some of it is in Kurrent script or Sütterlin script. It depends on when and how you had been taught writing in primary school.
 
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Roland49

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2019 June/July/August
pmfji

A "Fortbildunggschule" were introduced in the german schooling-system for special training, mostly for commercial and craftmanship. Sometimes for housekeeping and childcare.
It states that the graduate has left the school with a higher form of commercial or social education.
 

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
pmfji

A "Fortbildunggschule" were introduced in the german schooling-system for special training, mostly for commercial and craftmanship. Sometimes for housekeeping and childcare.
It states that the graduate has left the school with a higher form of commercial or social education.
There is no mention of graduation. Entlassungsschein is also used in discharge from the army for instance.

I wonder if it was common for girls to train in craftmanship and commercial subjects? Would it not be more likely that Amalia Wunsch learned about housekeeping and child care, and no diploma was provided?

@Caligal, if you feel like it, do write to the archives of Forbach, would be interesting to know what they can tell about this Fortbildungsschule, and possibly Amalia.
 

gittiharre

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Austria Czech Le Puy Geneva RLS V. Jacobi V. Regia V. Baltica/Scandinavica Porto Muxia
I don't think it is, the German dictionary does not mention it.

I cannot quite read the name of the school, I guess it is Hortbildungsschule, horticultural school. Bildung is education. At the time (1884), education in Germany was a large hotchpotch of schools, institutions and regulations that might vary per region, even within the various German Länder.

Do you know the age of your great grandmother at the time? This may give you an indication.
I think it is Fortbildungsschule, further education..
 
Camino(s) past & future
A few Caminos
Next plan - Camino Vasco interior
"Entlassungsschein" in this context means only, that Amalia Wunsch was released from this school on 21. April 1884.
The weapon above says, that the school was in Forbach / Grand Duchy of Baden, not in Forbach / Lorraine.

During this time, the school year in Germany always ended Easter and the duty was fulfilled after 8 years of school, normally at age 14. Maybe she didn´t find a place to learn a profession and I don´t think that the parents had aloud Amalia to do a hole year nothing;), So they sent her after the normal school to an additional school.

Quite a lot of girls still went to a household school after the normal school to be prepared to manage a family. The nickname for these schools was "pudding school"
 
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gittiharre

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Austria Czech Le Puy Geneva RLS V. Jacobi V. Regia V. Baltica/Scandinavica Porto Muxia
I just received photos and documents from my cousin and would love to know if anyone can tell me anything about this document regarding my great grandmother. Thanks View attachment 53340
Schulentlassung in itself just refers to the fact, that the person was officially released from school.
 
Camino(s) past & future
A few Caminos
Next plan - Camino Vasco interior
Forbach is a quite small municipal community in the northern part of the black forest (Schwarzwald).


Today Forbach has less than 5000 inhabitants and more than 20 villages and "mikro villages" ;) belongs to Forbach. Therefore on a birth certificate of Amalia Wunsch is possibly written another birthplace than Forbach.

It´s inside the "Nationalpark Schwarzwald" and with the "Westweg"one of the three famous hiking trails in the black forest goes through Forbach.


Back to the roots👍 If you have two weeks you can walk this 285km way from Pforzheim/Germany to Basel/Switzerland.

2021 is a holy year and it will be quite full on the Camino - your chance to 👣 the Westweg 🌲🇩🇪🌲
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF April 4- May 12, 2018
CP April 2019
Forbach is a quite small municipal community in the northern part of the black forest (Schwarzwald).


Today Forbach has less than 5000 inhabitants and more than 20 villages and "mikro villages" ;) belongs to Forbach. Therefore on a birth certificate of Amalia Wunsch is possibly written another birthplace than Forbach.

It´s inside the "Nationalpark Schwarzwald" and with the "Westweg"one of the three famous hiking trails in the black forest goes through Forbach.


Back to the roots👍 If you have two weeks you can walk this 285km way from Pforzheim/Germany to Basel/Switzerland.

2021 is a holy year and it will be quite full on the Camino - your chance to 👣 the Westweg 🌲🇩🇪🌲
You are correct Michael on the US census from 1920 it lists Amilia’s birthplace as Wurttemburg, 1869. She immigrated to the US with my greatgrandfather (David Ehmann) in 1889. Since receiving photos and a couple documents just days ago I have a renewed interest in seeing where it all started. I am walking the Camino this fall so 2021 may be the perfect time to explore Germany😊 Thank you for inspiring me! One big question-would i have to learn German?
 

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
You are correct Michael on the US census from 1920 it lists Amilia’s birthplace as Wurttemburg, 1869. She immigrated to the US with my greatgrandfather (David Ehmann) in 1889. Since receiving photos and a couple documents just days ago I have a renewed interest in seeing where it all started. I am walking the Camino this fall so 2021 may be the perfect time to explore Germany😊 Thank you for inspiring me! One big question-would i have to learn German?

Wurttenburg is not a town or a village, but the name of an old German kingdom dating back from the 12th century that went on the form part of the Bundesland Baden-Württenburg in 1952. So it would have been called Württenburg at the time that Amalia was born.
 

Giselleontour

The Alps in Germany. All around the world.
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances- September-Ocober 2016
Camino Frances: May-June 2017
Camino Portugues - May 2019
would i have to learn German?
No, I don`t think so. Most of Germans are speaking English meanwhile. There might be a problem with the old people but English is common in Elementary school and goes further till the end of any school. You will always find anyone who does understand and can help if necessary.
Forbach and the Black Forest are just beautiful.

I found the Wunsch-Family here.
 

MinaKamina

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobspad 2017
If I get this right @Caligal, you may have a distant family member in Brazil who has traced the Wunsch family back to 1134 in Windischgraetz, Austria.

So yes, do learn German.



 
Camino(s) past & future
A few Caminos
Next plan - Camino Vasco interior
It´s not necessary to learn German and I think you know already a few words to survive like Schnitzel, Bier😇

I did not find a place named Wurrtenburg and I think, it has to be Württemberg.

In the US census obviously the home countries of the immigrants are named, because Württemberg was a separate state (kingdom), before Germany formed a federation in 1871. Germany in the modern sense did not exist in 1869. Forbach is located in the old border region between Baden and Württemberg
 

sugargypsy

Member
Camino(s) past & future
First one planned for May 2019: Camino Francés
One big question-would i have to learn German?
Normally, it should not be difficult finding someone who speaks English since it's being usually taught as first foreing language in Germany. However, most people in that area study French as their first foreign language because of the proximity to the French border.

But normally you should get along quite well with English.
 

Via2010

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
06/07 & 12 Camino Francés, 08-10 Via de la Plata, 13/14 & 17 Camino Portugués, 18 Camino Primitivo
Very interesting. From the stories my grandmother told me about her education and her sister´s, I can add this:
In the 1880s girls in Germany did not learn a profession but were prepared to marry and have children. Normally they lived with their parents, helped in their household or business (agriculture mainly) until they got married. Spinsters were considered to look after their aged parents or their brothers household/children. Only people with some money could afford to send their daughters to a "Fortbildungsschule".
 
Camino(s) past & future
A few Caminos
Next plan - Camino Vasco interior
@Caligal I would say, you need more or less a sabatical to walk to all places were your ancestors are from. ;)

The story of your family is very exciting and so different from mine. My ancestors froms both sides always lived on the same very small farms for many generations and married only in a distance, were you could walk to- how boring.😓
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF April 4- May 12, 2018
CP April 2019
@Caligal I would say, you need more or less a sabatical to walk to all places were your ancestors are from. ;)

The story of your family is very exciting and so different from mine. My ancestors froms both sides always lived on the same very small farms for many generations and married only in a distance, were you could walk to- how boring.😓
At 67 I’m not sure I could do such a walk that’s why the Camino worked so well for me. My immediate family all still live on the East Coast close to where they got off the boat. I am the only one who headed west.
 

Bonita

Member
Camino(s) past & future
September ( 2015)
Forbach is a quite small municipal community in the northern part of the black forest (Schwarzwald).


Today Forbach has less than 5000 inhabitants and more than 20 villages and "mikro villages" ;) belongs to Forbach. Therefore on a birth certificate of Amalia Wunsch is possibly written another birthplace than Forbach.

It´s inside the "Nationalpark Schwarzwald" and with the "Westweg"one of the three famous hiking trails in the black forest goes through Forbach.


Back to the roots👍 If you have two weeks you can walk this 285km way from Pforzheim/Germany to Basel/Switzerland.

2021 is a holy year and it will be quite full on the Camino - your chance to 👣 the Westweg 🌲🇩🇪🌲

I loved this video and the wonderful walking in Germany. Thanks for sharing.
 

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