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Historical Authenticity of Camino de Invierno

#1
One of the things that contributed to the Xunta's delay in recognizing the Invierno was the dispute over its historic authenticity. The Galego Amigos Association didn't support the effort on that basis.

Javier's camino page posted a link this morning to an article in the Voz de Galicia that seems to end the dispute. https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...-invierno-encargo-rey/0003_201802M25C2991.htm

His article describes a chronicle written in 1610 by Diego de Guzmán, sent to walk the Camino on behalf of King Felipe III. He took the Francés to get there, but on the way home, reports going through Monforte, Quiroga, and Chantada. He wrote that he took that route on the advice of others in Santiago who told him there was less risk of snow -- just as the proponents of the route have always said!

I'll bet the longtime proponents of the Invierno can't help but feel a bit smug!
 

caminka

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
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#2
very cool! I can add it to my list for future research.

some more tidbits that I collected over the years. there are surprisingly few.

An 18C chronicle (for 1755 Nov 7) by Fray Martín Sarmiento describes the route in El Bierzo thus:

...salí del Puente Domingo Flórez…A Hermita [sic] de San Roque-Cuesta de Valdebría. Izquierda Quereño… Médulas, feligresía. Pasé por el lugar y las torres de tierra colorada están a la derecha sobre el lugar… Al acabar la cuesta de Las Médulas, se ve a la izquierda el lago de Caruzedo, y un pantanoso valle de oriente a poniente. Borrenes feligresía. Vese a la derecha el Castillo de Cornatelo, en un castro.- Cuesta, baxada de Borrenes…- Río Ferreyros.- Santalla…- Prearanza.- Villalibre feligresía. Medio día Río Oza (que viene de Montes) y río arriba el lugar de Toral.- Ponferrada. La dexe a la izquerda entre los dos ríos y dos puentes.- Campo.- Molina Seca. Noche.

= '...left Puente de Domingo Flórez ... at Ermitage of st Roque ascended along Valdebría. Left Quereño... Médulas. Passed through the place and the towers of red earth are on the right above the place... At the end of the ascent of Las Médulas, went left to Lago de Carucedo, and a swampy valley from east to west. Borrenes. On the right see Castillo de Cornatel, a fortress.- Ascent, descent from Borrenes...- River Ferreyros.- Santalla...- Priaranza.- Villalibre de la Jurisdicción. Noon at river Oza (which comes from Montes) and upstream to Toral de Merayo.- Ponferrada. Is left between two rivers and two bridges.- Campo.- Molinaseca. Night.'

An abbot from Colegiata de Villafranca has, on one of his regural visits around the province, also visited iglesia s Vicente in Borrenes in 1701 and left instructions that, despite low resources, the hospital is to be reestablished and a space for poor pilgrims be provided – a couple of guebos and some food.
Some ill pilgrims also died here and were buried in the hospital cemetery. In 1714 Dec 25 a pilgrim from France, in 1715 a poor German, and in 1729 José Dorado, a sergeant, which went to Santiago because of his disability.

On 1806 May 21 was in the church in Entoma baptised una parbula, hija de una viuda que dio a luz en este pueblo el diez y nuebe de mayo de mil ochocientos y seis, veniendo de Santiago en peregrinación. Era vecina de Santa Marina del Rey, en la Rivera del Orbigo.
(Archivo Diocesano de Astorga, 26/28 Bl., fol. 17v; from R. L. Caneda, El Camino de Santiago en Valdeorras, 1993.)

On 1712 Oct 30 a pilgrim died and was buried in Villamartín: En treinta de Octubre de mil setezientos y doze se enterró el cadaver de una pegrina que yba para le Patrón de Santiago en Galicia. Dijo que se llamaba Isavel; el sobrenombre no se lo pude entender. Era natural del Reino de Navarra. Está sepultada en la Parroquial de san Jorge de Villamartín, abajo de las Puertas del Sol. No deve fosario por ser pobre. Y para que conste lo firmo. // Esteban Garcia de Losada
(Archivo Parroqual de Villamartín, Libro 2˚ de Bautizados, Difuntos y Matrimonios, 1676, fol. 118v; from R. L. Caneda, El Camino de Santiago en Valdeorras, 1993.)

A document from 1566 about the bridge in Barxa de Lor refers to the residents of the village, concerning the distribution of the sources (560.000mrs) for the construction of the bridge. The letter mentiones the need for repair, as its main arch has fallen, and it was causing much damage to the pilgrims passing through and the connection between Castilla and Santiago. The pilgrims were also extempt from being charged to use the bridge. In the document it is also mentioned the importance of this route in the winter when the snow covers the mountains of Cebreiro. (ARG, Real Audiencia Neighbors, Leg.1182, n. 9)
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#3
Awesome, @caminka !!!

Laurie, I suggest you put it in 2019 edition of the guide. At least for me it was interesting to read something about the bridge in Barxa de Lor from 16th Century. And I crossed the very same bridge and admire its simple beauty. Isn't that good.
 
Camino(s) past & future
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Portugués Var. Esp.
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Inglés
Invierno
Norte
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Primitivo
#5
Awesome, @caminka !!!

Laurie, I suggest you put it in 2019 edition of the guide. At least for me it was interesting to read something about the bridge in Barxa de Lor from 16th Century. And I crossed the very same bridge and admire its simple beauty. Isn't that good.
Next time I'll be waiting for you there to charge you the toll! Failing that, you can take me around the river bank to Casa Pacita for a couple of beers before that long trudge uphill towards O Pobra do Brollón!
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
#6
Next time I'll be waiting for you there to charge you the toll! Failing that, you can take me around the river bank to Casa Pacita for a couple of beers before that long trudge uphill towards O Pobra do Brollón!
I would rather pay for the beers then bridge tax. And if we stay long enough at Casa Pacita maybe we even get into history :D
 
#7
very cool! I can add it to my list for future research.

some more tidbits that I collected over the years. there are surprisingly few.

An 18C chronicle (for 1755 Nov 7) by Fray Martín Sarmiento describes the route in El Bierzo thus:

...salí del Puente Domingo Flórez…A Hermita [sic] de San Roque-Cuesta de Valdebría. Izquierda Quereño… Médulas, feligresía. Pasé por el lugar y las torres de tierra colorada están a la derecha sobre el lugar… Al acabar la cuesta de Las Médulas, se ve a la izquierda el lago de Caruzedo, y un pantanoso valle de oriente a poniente. Borrenes feligresía. Vese a la derecha el Castillo de Cornatelo, en un castro.- Cuesta, baxada de Borrenes…- Río Ferreyros.- Santalla…- Prearanza.- Villalibre feligresía. Medio día Río Oza (que viene de Montes) y río arriba el lugar de Toral.- Ponferrada. La dexe a la izquerda entre los dos ríos y dos puentes.- Campo.- Molina Seca. Noche.

= '...left Puente de Domingo Flórez ... at Ermitage of st Roque ascended along Valdebría. Left Quereño... Médulas. Passed through the place and the towers of red earth are on the right above the place... At the end of the ascent of Las Médulas, went left to Lago de Carucedo, and a swampy valley from east to west. Borrenes. On the right see Castillo de Cornatel, a fortress.- Ascent, descent from Borrenes...- River Ferreyros.- Santalla...- Priaranza.- Villalibre de la Jurisdicción. Noon at river Oza (which comes from Montes) and upstream to Toral de Merayo.- Ponferrada. Is left between two rivers and two bridges.- Campo.- Molinaseca. Night.'

An abbot from Colegiata de Villafranca has, on one of his regural visits around the province, also visited iglesia s Vicente in Borrenes in 1701 and left instructions that, despite low resources, the hospital is to be reestablished and a space for poor pilgrims be provided – a couple of guebos and some food.
Some ill pilgrims also died here and were buried in the hospital cemetery. In 1714 Dec 25 a pilgrim from France, in 1715 a poor German, and in 1729 José Dorado, a sergeant, which went to Santiago because of his disability.

On 1806 May 21 was in the church in Entoma baptised una parbula, hija de una viuda que dio a luz en este pueblo el diez y nuebe de mayo de mil ochocientos y seis, veniendo de Santiago en peregrinación. Era vecina de Santa Marina del Rey, en la Rivera del Orbigo.
(Archivo Diocesano de Astorga, 26/28 Bl., fol. 17v; from R. L. Caneda, El Camino de Santiago en Valdeorras, 1993.)

On 1712 Oct 30 a pilgrim died and was buried in Villamartín: En treinta de Octubre de mil setezientos y doze se enterró el cadaver de una pegrina que yba para le Patrón de Santiago en Galicia. Dijo que se llamaba Isavel; el sobrenombre no se lo pude entender. Era natural del Reino de Navarra. Está sepultada en la Parroquial de san Jorge de Villamartín, abajo de las Puertas del Sol. No deve fosario por ser pobre. Y para que conste lo firmo. // Esteban Garcia de Losada
(Archivo Parroqual de Villamartín, Libro 2˚ de Bautizados, Difuntos y Matrimonios, 1676, fol. 118v; from R. L. Caneda, El Camino de Santiago en Valdeorras, 1993.)

A document from 1566 about the bridge in Barxa de Lor refers to the residents of the village, concerning the distribution of the sources (560.000mrs) for the construction of the bridge. The letter mentiones the need for repair, as its main arch has fallen, and it was causing much damage to the pilgrims passing through and the connection between Castilla and Santiago. The pilgrims were also extempt from being charged to use the bridge. In the document it is also mentioned the importance of this route in the winter when the snow covers the mountains of Cebreiro. (ARG, Real Audiencia Neighbors, Leg.1182, n. 9)
Hey caminka, I am going to put some of these fascinating historical details into the 2019 guide, just as Kinky suggested. I do not understand the source for the Barxa de Lor document -- you write ARG, Real Audiencia Neighbors, Leg. 1182, n.9, but I can't figure out what that means. It's not a big deal, but I suppose the purists would prefer documentation! Thanks so much, these are fascinating anecdotes.

And does anyone know what "no deve fosario" means in the anecdote about Villamartín? Does it mean there was no charge for burial since she was poor?
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés
Portugués
Portugués Var. Esp.
Fisterra
Inglés
Invierno
Norte
Sanabrés
Primitivo
#8
Hey caminka, I am going to put some of these fascinating historical details into the 2019 guide, just as Kinky suggested. I do not understand the source for the Barxa de Lor document -- you write ARG, Real Audiencia Neighbors, Leg. 1182, n.9, but I can't figure out what that means. It's not a big deal, but I suppose the purists would prefer documentation! Thanks so much, these are fascinating anecdotes.

And does anyone know what "no deve fosario" means in the anecdote about Villamartín? Does it mean there was no charge for burial since she was poor?
fosario: un sitio destinado a reposar los restos osteógenos que se extrae de un entierro y después volver a sepultar, es anexo a una iglesia o santuario.
 
#9
fosario: un sitio destinado a reposar los restos osteógenos que se extrae de un entierro y después volver a sepultar, es anexo a una iglesia o santuario.
So, that suggests to me that this is the place where they put the bones when they empty out the family mausoleums to put in the more recently deceased family members when the spaces fill up. Is that right? So I can think of a couple of things that "no deve fosario" means. One would be that she didn't owe the charge for the fosario since she was poor. Or does it mean she wasn´t entitled to be in the fosario since she was poor? Or does it mean something else? Come on Caminka and Charrito!
 
#10
And one more question -- what is a parbula? I see that a parvula is something small and humble, so it may refer to a girl. I think this is what Caminka has to say about Éntoma. Let me know if I've got something wrong. I think that these anecdotes are worth putting in the guide, at least for those who are interested in the Invierno as an authentic camino.

On May 21, 1806, a woman of humble origin, from the town of Santa Marina del Rey (León province), gave birth in Éntoma. She was baptized and described as a pilgrim on her way home from Santiago
 
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Primitivo June 2013
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Ingles July2016
#11
I really don't know what"s the meaning of 'No deve fosario' in that case. But reading the article I learnt that there is another Montefurado on the Camino the Invierno. Montefurado means Mountain with holes in Galician. Holes made by the Romans for their miner activities just the same case of Montefurado on the Camino Primitivo.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
#12
Hmmm. Lots of interesting questions here.
Montefurado I always thought means a Monte that has furos -- a written bill of rights ceded by the local lord that gives the town judicial authority in local matters. Montefurado on the Invierno is a really ancient town, goes right back to Roman times, still famous for its honey (all along the Invierno you can see the remains of enclosed beehive yards) ; as well as a small set of Medullas and a tunnel you can see where the highway passes near the river -- those mining remains Pelegrin mentions above. The entire town sits atop a honeycomb of ancient mine tunnels, now used as bodegas. If you're lucky a neighbor will show you down there.


"No debe forsario" would mean a poor person was not owed space in the parish tombs or ossuary. They'd be buried out in the cemetery, likely. So cool that we know the woman's name, and where she came from.

I think the "parbula" is a "poor little thing," the baby girl who was baptised in Entoma, daughter of the widow. I wonder what became of her.

I love this stuff!
 
#13
I am way out of my league here, but I will do my best to incorporate this information into the guide.

So, the poor woman (Isabel from Navarra whose last name no one could understand) who died in Vilamartín was buried under the Puertas del Sol because she had no money and for that reason could not be buried in the cemetery. Is that approximately right?

Where are the puertas del sol in Vilamartín?
 

caminka

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#15
Hey caminka, I am going to put some of these fascinating historical details into the 2019 guide, just as Kinky suggested. I do not understand the source for the Barxa de Lor document -- you write ARG, Real Audiencia Neighbors, Leg. 1182, n.9, but I can't figure out what that means. It's not a big deal, but I suppose the purists would prefer documentation! Thanks so much, these are fascinating anecdotes.

And does anyone know what "no deve fosario" means in the anecdote about Villamartín? Does it mean there was no charge for burial since she was poor?
I copied the sources directly from a book which might still be in some box at home. I'll take a look.
I suppose AR could mean Archivo Regional?
Real Audiencia, according to wiki, is a royal court, so that would be their archives.
I have no idea what Neighbors are doing there, presumably the name of the part of the archives?
Leg. could be something like legislature or department, or maybe a box or a file folder.

under 'fosario' I understand an ossuary. so maybe she was buried in a place that was reserved for the poor (under the door) and not in a constructed ossuary.
 
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caminka

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#16
And one more question -- what is a parbula? I see that a parvula is something small and humble, so it may refer to a girl. I think this is what Caminka has to say about Éntoma. Let me know if I've got something wrong. I think that these anecdotes are worth putting in the guide, at least for those who are interested in the Invierno as an authentic camino.

On May 21, 1806, a woman of humble origin, from the town of Santa Marina del Rey (León province), gave birth in Éntoma. She was baptized and described as a pilgrim on her way home from Santiago
'parbula' is almost certainly a typo. it should be 'parvula'.
 

caminka

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#17
I am way out of my league here, but I will do my best to incorporate this information into the guide.

So, the poor woman (Isabel from Navarra whose last name no one could understand) who died in Vilamartín was buried under the Puertas del Sol because she had no money and for that reason could not be buried in the cemetery. Is that approximately right?

Where are the puertas del sol in Vilamartín?
the gate that was looking to the south perhaps? meaning not the main gate and therefore not the better gate.
 
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caminka

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#18
Hmmm. Lots of interesting questions here.
Montefurado I always thought means a Monte that has furos -- a written bill of rights ceded by the local lord that gives the town judicial authority in local matters. Montefurado on the Invierno is a really ancient town, goes right back to Roman times, still famous for its honey (all along the Invierno you can see the remains of enclosed beehive yards) ; as well as a small set of Medullas and a tunnel you can see where the highway passes near the river -- those mining remains Pelegrin mentions above. The entire town sits atop a honeycomb of ancient mine tunnels, now used as bodegas. If you're lucky a neighbor will show you down there.
montefurado in this case might be derived from the big hole in the mountain (the tunnel made by the romans to divert the river) and the small tunnels left over by mining. according to wiki, in gallego monte furado means tunneled mountain.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
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#19
Hmmm. Lots of interesting questions here.
Montefurado I always thought means a Monte that has furos -- a written bill of rights ceded by the local lord that gives the town judicial authority in local matters. Montefurado on the Invierno is a really ancient town, goes right back to Roman times, still famous for its honey (all along the Invierno you can see the remains of enclosed beehive yards) ; as well as a small set of Medullas and a tunnel you can see where the highway passes near the river -- those mining remains Pelegrin mentions above. The entire town sits atop a honeycomb of ancient mine tunnels, now used as bodegas. If you're lucky a neighbor will show you down there.
Concur with caminka, that it could just be from a "Monte forado", i.e. a "dug-up mountain"/"tunneled mountain"/"pierced mountain"/"holed mountain".
 

caminka

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#20
Hey caminka, I am going to put some of these fascinating historical details into the 2019 guide, just as Kinky suggested. I do not understand the source for the Barxa de Lor document -- you write ARG, Real Audiencia Neighbors, Leg. 1182, n.9, but I can't figure out what that means. It's not a big deal, but I suppose the purists would prefer documentation! Thanks so much, these are fascinating anecdotes.
found it (sort of)!
https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...sos-privilegiados-peregrinos/0003_8486777.htm

ARG (Real Audiencia-Vecinos, Leg.1182, nº 9) - apparently I've got this from an english author (or an english translation) who translated part of the citation.

https://books.google.si/books?id=qn3_TM9LU0YC&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=ahrg+real+audiencia&source=bl&ots=qZeFqMvsY_&sig=jQF8nMvqhCNHxXXRmCz-lt-yw-I&hl=sl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjv9PScn8XeAhXKJMAKHfInC5QQ6AEwCHoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=ahrg real audiencia&f=false

the closest I got to ARG is AHRG together with Real Audiencia de Galicia, so presumably El Archivo del Reino de Galicia (Arquivo do Reino de Galicia in gallego) which is also called Archivo Historico del Reino de Galicia?
http://arquivosdegalicia.xunta.gal/...galicia/content/el-archivo/index.html?lang=es
 
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Portugués
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Norte
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Primitivo
#21
Right, I think we need a Pidgin English translation of the Invierno Guide! Solar eclipse in Pidgin is "big fella in sky im belong mrs queen im gone bu**er-up". I'll leave it up to you, Laurie!
 

Tincatinker

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#22
Wow! The depth of knowledge and the capacity for research of members of this forum always brings a smile to my face.

If I could glance back to the original title and origins of the thread: Most of the historical references to an association between pilgrims and the Invierno seem to cover the territories from around Monforte de Lemos and eastward to Ponferrada. Has anyone found any references to points onwards along the current promoted route: Chantada; Rodeiro; A Laxe/Lalin? On the ground this autumn it struck me that a "winter" route, seeking a riverine climate and to avoid snow on the heights, would more likely have followed the Minho to Portomarin and rejoin the "French Way". Thus by-passing some challenging heights.

Though I guess theres an equal argument for a "winter" route vie Ourense and all those lovely hot springs ;)
 
Camino(s) past & future
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#23
Tinca, it's agreed among the FICS historical dweebs I hang out with that the "Camino Invierno" label is a complete misnomer, a nice-sounding name for an old Roman mining access road that became a regular trade route as time went on. It is a lovely trail, but its relationship to the pilgrimage is incidental.
It certainly gets its share of hard weather in winter... one early Spring hike along that railway/river section was the muddiest I have ever walked on any Camino!
 
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#24
Have just discovered this thread. Unfortunately I cannot contribute anything, but find it fascinating. So much interesting information! And now the Invierno has been added to my list of caminos to walk eventually - se Deus quiser...
 
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Primitivo June 2013
SJPP - Logroño June 2014
Ingles July2016
#26
Hmmm. Lots of interesting questions here.
Montefurado I always thought means a Monte that has furos -- a written bill of rights ceded by the local lord that gives the town judicial authority in local matters. Montefurado on the Invierno is a really ancient town, goes right back to Roman times, still famous for its honey (all along the Invierno you can see the remains of enclosed beehive yards) ; as well as a small set of Medullas and a tunnel you can see where the highway passes near the river -- those mining remains Pelegrin mentions above. The entire town sits atop a honeycomb of ancient mine tunnels, now used as bodegas. If you're lucky a neighbor will show you down there.


"No debe forsario" would mean a poor person was not owed space in the parish tombs or ossuary. They'd be buried out in the cemetery, likely. So cool that we know the woman's name, and where she came from.

I think the "parbula" is a "poor little thing," the baby girl who was baptised in Entoma, daughter of the widow. I wonder what became of her.

I love this stuff!
In Hospilales on the Primitivo is located the Roman mine "A Freita" and near Montefurado the "Cova de Xan Rata" that is the remains of a tunnel.
http://elcaminodesantiagodesdeasturias.blogspot.com/2017/08/cueva-de-xan-rata.html
The area is still Asturias but Puerto del Palo is the border between the Galician and Asturian languages. So, the name Montefurado on the Primitivo has also to do with tunnels inside.:).
 

caminka

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#28
interesting notes about hospitals can be found in 1750-54 Catastro del Marques de la Ensenada: http://pares.mcu.es/Catastro/. it's very structured and, once you get the hang of it, very legible. hospitals are usually under number 30.

Borrenes
Ala treintta Diseron que enste dho lugar solo anvn hospital quesirve para dar pasada aperegrinos porno ttener mas que cada ano quattrocienttos ? Lincorn quese destribuyen en adorno de la Capilla, Ropa de Cama i Lena y para y paga del quelo sirve. (fol. 282v-283a)

O Barco de Valdorras (this was one of those very difficult to decipher but apparently there was some sort of refuge)
Alatrenta Digenon hay eneste lugar ungunato(?) decasa questa ui tekoi(?) elguesealla arriutadi(?) porsupobrezas (?) y solo uont ernenta(?) qua rentaynuebe rrealeis younte yquattro mns yrnes ponden. (fol. 214v)

Monforte de Lemos had Hospital.
Ay uno nombrado el de Santto Espiritus cuio Pattronatto honorario perttenecece ala villa y de ynsttittu(?) dirne(?) para Enfermos y alberque de Peregrinos las Renntas que goza con sttaran dela Relacion que aya de dar el da ministtra acttual. (fol. 9593a)

Chantada
Alatregessima diseron hauer enel termino unhos putol(?) dondeserecohen various Peregrinos elquenos challa doctado de efecto alguno parasu subsistencia, pues aunque hai aneho ael unhuertesito que ana las esta oarte de un ferrado, sedeha aun Pobre quetine enaho(?) Hospital para quelecuide, y recoha qualguiera pobre, que enel seguarezca y responden. (fol. 3922v)

of others I managed to find Priaranza del Bierzo, Santalla del Bierzo, Villavieja, Las Médulas, Sobradelo, Xagoaza, A Rúa, Montefurado, Bendilló, Quiroga, A Pobra de Brollón, Rodeiro and Lalín don't have hospitals.
I didn't manage to find the hospital in San Xulián de Arriba near Quiroga and Barxa de Lor.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo June 2013
SJPP - Logroño June 2014
Ingles July2016
#30
interesting notes about hospitals can be found in 1750-54 Catastro del Marques de la Ensenada: http://pares.mcu.es/Catastro/. it's very structured and, once you get the hang of it, very legible. hospitals are usually under number 30.

Borrenes
Ala treintta Diseron que enste dho lugar solo anvn hospital quesirve para dar pasada aperegrinos porno ttener mas que cada ano quattrocienttos ? Lincorn quese destribuyen en adorno de la Capilla, Ropa de Cama i Lena y para y paga del quelo sirve. (fol. 282v-283a)

O Barco de Valdorras (this was one of those very difficult to decipher but apparently there was some sort of refuge)
Alatrenta Digenon hay eneste lugar ungunato(?) decasa questa ui tekoi(?) elguesealla arriutadi(?) porsupobrezas (?) y solo uont ernenta(?) qua rentaynuebe rrealeis younte yquattro mns yrnes ponden. (fol. 214v)

Monforte de Lemos had Hospital.
Ay uno nombrado el de Santto Espiritus cuio Pattronatto honorario perttenecece ala villa y de ynsttittu(?) dirne(?) para Enfermos y alberque de Peregrinos las Renntas que goza con sttaran dela Relacion que aya de dar el da ministtra acttual. (fol. 9593a)

Chantada
Alatregessima diseron hauer enel termino unhos putol(?) dondeserecohen various Peregrinos elquenos challa doctado de efecto alguno parasu subsistencia, pues aunque hai aneho ael unhuertesito que ana las esta oarte de un ferrado, sedeha aun Pobre quetine enaho(?) Hospital para quelecuide, y recoha qualguiera pobre, que enel seguarezca y responden. (fol. 3922v)

of others I managed to find Priaranza del Bierzo, Santalla del Bierzo, Villavieja, Las Médulas, Sobradelo, Xagoaza, A Rúa, Montefurado, Bendilló, Quiroga, A Pobra de Brollón, Rodeiro and Lalín don't have hospitals.
I didn't manage to find the hospital in San Xulián de Arriba near Quiroga and Barxa de Lor.
In 1713 was founded the Real Academia de la Lengua to normalize the Spanish language. I don´t understand why in 1750 was written this important document in such incomprehensible way.
In Chantada:
" unhos putol(?) dondeserecohen various Peregrinos elquenos challa doctado de efecto alguno parasu subsistencia, pues aunque hai aneho ael unhuertesito que ana las esta oarte (?) de un ferrado
It seems there were some putol (??) to accommodate pilgrims but there wasn´t any food available despite having next a little vegetable garden with around a ferrado of surface.
The ferrado is still in use in Galicia and has from 400 to 600 m2 It is variable depending on the zone.
 

caminka

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
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#31
@caminka, you win the best post of the day.
I am astonished at your ability to find (and actually decipher) this stuff. Brilliant.
:oops: thanks!

I love digging up stuff, it's one of my favourite things to do. if someone goes 'that can't be written anywhere', I go 'hang on a minute' and go dig it up (often). :) I am very grateful to institutions who take time to digitalize their records, cause I can't go there and pay them a visit.

this spanish catastro is fairly easy to read (fairly being subjective), it's in latin script and the writers at least tried to write cleanly. try reading gothic script in which all historic german stuff is written in, it's a nightmare. in catastro some words are stuck together. I'm not sure if this was a thing at the time, trying to save space, fast writing, or plain bad writing technique.
 

caminka

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
see signature
#32
In 1713 was founded the Real Academia de la Lengua to normalize the Spanish language. I don´t understand why in 1750 was written this important document in such incomprehensible way.
In Chantada:
" unhos putol(?) dondeserecohen various Peregrinos elquenos challa doctado de efecto alguno parasu subsistencia, pues aunque hai aneho ael unhuertesito que ana las esta oarte (?) de un ferrado
It seems there were some putol (??) to accommodate pilgrims but there wasn´t any food available despite having next a little vegetable garden with around a ferrado of surface.
The ferrado is still in use in Galicia and has from 400 to 600 m2 It is variable depending on the zone.
part of this might simply be my inability to decipher words correctly. many words are written together (at least they appear so to me), I left them like that.

ferrado is then a measure of sorts? or a sort of terrain? like an acre?
 

caminka

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
see signature
#33
I didn't localize the catastro because on the site cited above it says that it's kept (or parts of it are kept) in various institutions. presumably they put them all together in one digitalized version. the high numbers of folios certainly seem to suggest that.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo June 2013
SJPP - Logroño June 2014
Ingles July2016
#34
part of this might simply be my inability to decipher words correctly. many words are written together (at least they appear so to me), I left them like that.

ferrado is then a measure of sorts? or a sort of terrain? like an acre?
Yes Ferrado would be like an acre but variable. It is 629 m2 in Chantada and 489 m2 in Monforte de Lemos. That probably means that the land is better in Minforte.
 

caminka

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
see signature
#35
Yes Ferrado would be like an acre but variable. It is 629 m2 in Chantada and 489 m2 in Monforte de Lemos. That probably means that the land is better in Minforte.
very interesting. the different measures today are probably due to different measures in the past. I past slovenian territory every 'county' had its own measures for everything, sometimes they even differed from village to village. nobody is quite sure why there was such diversity, but one theory is that the terrain here is very hilly and the measures developed spontaneously and separately.
 


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