History of Primitivo route?

[JillGat]

I'm sure this is covered here somewhere, but I couldn't find it. Can someone tell me - or post a link to a thread - about the history of the Primitivo route? Is it an authentic earlier Camino route than the Frances? Thanks, Jill

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I'm sure this is covered here somewhere, but I couldn't find it. Can someone tell me - or post a link to a thread - about the history of the Primitivo route? Is it an authentic earlier Camino route than the Frances? Thanks, Jill

Yes it is. At the time St-james' rests were said to have been found the Spanish court lived in Oviedo. So off went the king to pray in the tomb of St-James.

 

[evanlow]

My research was done by scouring the web some time ago. No links but here's what I got.

1. Primitivo is indeed the first Camino route and King Alfonso II from Oviedo is technically the first pilgrim.
2. It was the worst time as most of Spain was under Moorish rule with the Christian kingdom being pushed up north towards the mountains and the coast.
3. As the news of the apostle's tomb spread outside Spain many pilgrims started coming in from France, etc. The Norte (Coastal Route) is probably what they use, making it the second route before the Camino Frances. Not much was documented on the pilgrims walking the Coastal Route but it seems that the pilgrim will walk along the coast and then head south towards Oviedo and continued to Santiago from there.
4. When the Camino Frances came about, it becomes the main route since Coastal Route is really tough. Numerous headlands and rivers that couldn't be crossed unless one walks miles inland until the river flow is small enough or if they are lucky to find a bridge (imagine a 20 meters rivers crossing may mean a 5 km x 2 distance instead)
4. As the reconquest started and most of the land around Camino Frances are taken back from the Moors, it became clear that walking inland is much easier and so the Camino Frances slowly started to take shape. There was a primitivo Camino Frances route where the pilgrim cross over to Spain from the coast (Irun) and then made it via the inland route from Irun to Santo Domingo de la Calzada and then continued westward. When the current mountain pass from St. Jean became an option it quickly became the preferred route of the pilgrims outside Spain.
5. During the medieval time, there are not such thing as to what is the actual way. Pilgrims just walk and get to their destination based on the situation and directions from the locals. And for religious reasons it is also not uncommon for pilgrims to head north after Leon to Oviedo (Camino San Salvador) and obviously increasing the distance to see the relics of Jesus before continuing their journey to Santiago. Camino Frances was first documented by Frenchmen Aimery Picaud who wrote probably the first lonely planet guide. The route he took and documented became the basis for the current Camino France route.
6. This route attracted many French and many even stayed behind (probably to open up business along the route much like today's camino industry) and so it is aptly named the French route.

 

[JillGat]

Thanks so much for all the interesting info.! Looks like you've hiked all of them. Thanks again, Jill

 

[Tia Valeria]

From a website:-

The Camino Primitivo (The Ancient/First Way)
In the early 9th Century, between 820 and 830 A.D., the Bishop Teodomirus announced the discovery of the remains of St. James, the disciple of Our Lord Jesus Christ. A shepherd / hermit named Pelayo had seen mysterious lights on a hillside, accompanied by angelic voices. On investigation, the bishop and his men discovered three stone coffins which held the remains of St. James and his two companions. The site near the Roman seaport of Iria Flavia, modern Padron, was named Compostela - Field of Stars.

On hearing of the discovery, Alfonso II, king of Asturias, made the first recorded pilgrimage to the tomb of Santiago. Guided by the Milky Way he travelled from his capital city of Oviedo, through the mountains to Lugo and then down the Roman road, the Via Romana Lucus Iria Flavia to Compostela. The route he took is now known as the 'Camino Primitivo', the 'Ancient Road'.

At the time of the discovery, Christian Spain consisted of the Kingdom (Principality) of Asturias and some areas just west of the Pyrenees, 'liberated' by Charlemagne. The Moors controlled all of southern Spain under the Emirate of Cordoba, Al-Andalus.

Today, in the Camara Santa, the 'Holy Room' of the cathedral of Oviedo, there are sacred relics of those early times. The cathedral itself is dedicated to 'The Holy Saviour' and is part of the legend of 'The Way of St. James'.
"Whoever goes to St. James and not to the Saviour, visits the servant and misses the Master."

 

[angulero]

Today, in the Camara Santa, the 'Holy Room' of the cathedral of Oviedo, there are sacred relics of those early times. The cathedral itself is dedicated to 'The Holy Saviour' and is part of the legend of 'The Way of St. James'.
"Whoever goes to St. James and not to the Saviour, visits the servant and misses the Master."

Y en ella ese guardo el Sudario Santo, con el que se cree que se cubrió la cabeza del Salvador, de ahí el dicho.

A ver si con todo esto se cambia el orden del foro y se pone a estos dos caminos en la sección de caminos que acaban en Santiago y no en la seccion de caminos que se unen al Francés.

And in it that I keep the Santo Sudario, with which it is believed that the Saviour's head was covered, hence the saying.

To see if this is the policy of the forum changes and puts these two roads in road section ending in Santiago and not in the section of roads that join the French.

 

[peregrina2000]

I don't mean to take this topic off course, but when I walked the Olvidado (from Bilbao to Ponferrada) last year, I was told that IT was the oldest. So I take it that the historical research debunks that claim? Thanks, historians. Laurie

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I don't mean to take this topic off course, but when I walked the Olvidado (from Bilbao to Ponferrada) last year, I was told that IT was the oldest. So I take it that the historical research debunks that claim? Thanks, historians. Laurie

What is the rational for the Olvidado being the first?

 

[TerryB]

Y en ella ese guardo el Sudario Santo, con el que se cree que se cubrió la cabeza del Salvador, de ahí el dicho.

A ver si con todo esto se cambia el orden del foro y se pone a estos dos caminos en la sección de caminos que acaban en Santiago y no en la seccion de caminos que se unen al Francés.

And in it that I keep the Santo Sudario, with which it is believed that the Saviour's head was covered, hence the saying.

To see if this is the policy of the forum changes and puts these two roads in road section ending in Santiago and not in the section of roads that join the French.

In all my posts I have noted that the "Camino Francés joins the Primitivo" e.g. 2nd July this year I said

At the end of July you will probably get more than enough of the "classic" Camino experience in the 53 kilometers between Melide (where the Francés joins the Primitivo) and Santiago.

I don't really expect the Forum to list the Camino Francés and the Camino del Norte as "Caminos which join the Camino Primitivo" but it would be historically correct. From Melide the Primitivo and the Francés use the old Roman Road which ran from Lugo through to Iria Flavia (now Padrón).
The memorial at Lugo to the first Camino a Santiago de Compostela -

The bridge at Ribadiso is noted as "Roman".

Blessings
Tio Tel

 

[peregrina2000]

What is the rational for the Olvidado being the first?

Hi, Anemone, once again I realize I should do some research before hitting the "post reply" button. Sorry. So, here's one version of the history: http://www.viejocaminodesantiago.com/es/historia

The authors recognize that the Primitivo was really the first -- with the 9th century pilgrimage of Alfonso of Asturias from Oviedo but they also explain the evidence to show that the Olvidado also dates from the 9th century. It is no coincidence that the "Campo de Santiago," is on this route. That's the field where a huge battle between the Leoneses (led by Ramiro II) and the moors (led by Almanzor) took place in the 10th century, part of the Reconquista. Legend has it that the two sides were so well matched that Santiago came back from the dead to assist, hence the awful "matamoros"
moniker.

http://www.rutinasvarias.com/2009/07/25/campo-de-santiago-colinas-del-campo/

Anyway, for what it's worth, it's another lovely route with some stunning mountain parts, absolutely gorgeous.

Both the Primitivo and the Olvidado have reason to hate the Codex, because it was its publication in the 12th Century that spurred the popularity of the Frances, which has remained at the top of the heap! Buen camino, Laurie

CAVEAT: I am no historian.

 

[ebrandt]

Laurie -- that was a great link. Thanks. Liz

 

[angulero]

In all my posts I have noted that the "Camino Francés joins the Primitivo" e.g. 2nd July this year I said
I don't really expect the Forum to list the Camino Francés and the Camino del Norte as "Caminos which join the Camino Primitivo" but it would be historically correct. From Melide the Primitivo and the Francés use the old Roman Road which ran from Lugo through to Iria Flavia (now Padrón).
The memorial at Lugo to the first Camino a Santiago de Compostela -View attachment 20238

The bridge at Ribadiso is noted as "Roman". View attachment 20239 View attachment 20240

Blessings
Tio Tel

Lo que quería decir es que hay una sección del foro que habla de "Caminos que terminan en Santiago". Para mí, es ahí donde tenían que estar incluidos el "Camino del Norte" y el "Camino Primitivo" ya que sólo comparten unas pocas etapas con el "Camino Francés" y por historia se les debería de dar casi la misma importancia que a éste. Al estar incluidos en la sección "Otras rutas en España", el que no conozca un poco la historia del camino, puede pensar que no son caminos históricos cuando en realidad, posiblemente fueran los primeros.

What I meant is that there is a forum section that talks about "Roads ending in Santiago". For me, that's where they had to be included the "Camino del Norte" and "Primitive Way" since only share a few steps to the "French Way" and story should give them almost the same importance to it . Being listed in the "Other routes in Spain" section, you do not know some of the history of the way, you can think of that are not historical roads when in fact, may be the first.