How many pilgrims do not ask for a Compostela after their Camino?

[Bradypus]

I've just been reading an article on a Ferrol news website which notes a substantial increase in numbers walking the Camino Ingles so far this year compared with 2022. Similar scale increase to that across the board in the pilgrim office statistics generally. Of course these numbers are from the records of those who request a Compostela on arrival in Santiago. The article mentions a 2022 survey by the University of A Coruña and the municipalities along the route which estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela and so do not feature in the reported figures. A substantial number. I have had the impression for some time that the number of those who choose not to ask for a Compostela is increasing but this seems like a very large percentage. Perhaps it is a phenomenon mostly confined to the lesser-walked Caminos which are favoured more by those who have already walked one or more Caminos?

Los peregrinos despegan en marzo y superan los números de 2022

En el primer trimestre han salido de Ferrol 755 personas, la mayoría de ellas extranjeras ...

www.diariodeferrol.com

 

[jungleboy]

Those who start the Inglés from A Coruña aren’t eligible for a compostela anyway, so that might account for some of these numbers.

 

[Bradypus]

Those who start the Inglés from A Coruña aren’t eligible for a compostela anyway, so that might account for some of these numbers.

A fair point. If I walk the Ingles again I may well start in A Coruna. But I wonder just how many do actually start from A Coruna rather than Ferrol? Hard to know as they don't show up on the Compostela figures unless they have used the special exemption by walking 25km elsewhere first.

 

[Tincatinker]

We are planning flight to Coruna, walk Coruna, Ferrol, Santiago and back to Coruna. Gotta be a flight ‘cos I still can’t find anyone in the Yacht Club with a sense of adventure.
We won’t be claiming Compostelas so that’ll be a few more missing from the stats

 

[Bradypus]

Gotta be a flight ‘cos I still can’t find anyone in the Yacht Club with a sense of adventure.

Is there a rowing club?

 

[Lindsay53]

I recall posts on the forum indicating that some pilgrims with several Caminos under their belt no longer ask for a Compostela, and I suppose many who are not walking for religious or spiritual reasons would not be interested anyway.

 

[Kathar1na]

I recall having read for years that the number of foot pilgrims arriving in Santiago is some 30% or even 50% higher than the number of pilgrims who register at the pilgrims office. These estimates are based on surveys although they often appear to be done with a rather small sample of interviewees. In 2010 and in earlier years, Galicia had a Observatorio estatistico do camiño but it no longer exists. If I happen to come again across studies based on their figures I’ll post a link.

I still intend to walk the Camino Ingles from Santiago to Coruña to cover the hole in my itinerary on foot between my arrival in Santiago on foot and my departure from Coruña by boat. Yes, I did find a captain who would take a Camino pilgrim on board for a pile of euros. I even managed to make them put a stamp in my credencial. After a lot of explanation about what it’s all about.

 

[evanlow]

I only have 4 Compostela for the 11 or so Caminos I walked. Reason is that all the other Caminos joined Caminos that I had already walked and that is where I stopped. E.g.Camino Mozarabe at Merida, Camino Madrid at Sahagun.

 

[Former member 92300]

It would be nice if they found an accurate way to collect that information. It seems to me that most people do get it for a first Camino, but that number seems to decrease as people return to the Camino. And the most frequent Camino walkers are less likely to get it. Since the Frances is the most popular route for first timers (and Portuguese is next) - I would assume there numbers are probably most accurate. But then again - there are those who do the same routes over and over!

I think the only way to maybe accurately gage the true number of people walking the Camino would be if they gave a stamp at the Cathedral and required everyone to get a stamp at the Cathedral before going to the Pilgrim's office to get the Compostela. I would suspect most people would get that stamp at the Cathedral, even if they don't want to get a Compostela. I would be curious to know how many, if any, don't at least visit the Cathedral on arrival? But of course - to get the number of Pilgrims who get the stamp at the Cathedral would require people to give the stamp and count pilgrims, or at least a monitored automatic stamp machine (lol... I know... who wants a machine to give their final stamp, not me!)... and would create traffic flow issues at the Cathedral. But - if they are just giving a stamp in your pre-existing credential - it wouldn't take much time at all - or maybe it would. Doesn't matter - I doubt they will want to do it! After all - they wouldn't have built a Pilgrim's Office in the first place if it wasn't so cumbersome of a process already.

Oh well - I am guessing we will never know the true answer? But I would love to know what it is!

 

[Bradypus]

I would be curious to know how many, if any, don't at least visit the Cathedral on arrival?

I'm old enough to remember when Compostelas were issued in the cathedral itself rather than an office elsewhere. That way you could be pretty sure that everyone who wanted a Compostela had at least visited the place!

 

[sarahchicago]

A smart survey methodologist could devise a sampling approach that uses hotel occupancy, pilgrim office stats and survey to estimate non-credential seeking walkers. I’m not sure this segment of the population of tourists to SdC would garner enough interest for anyone to invest in the project, though!

 

[J Willhaus]

We didn't get a stamp at the cathedral, but attended Mass.

 

[Camembert]

Anyway all pilgrims who came to my window at the Pilgrims Office asked for a Compostela
Although some were refused because they walked less than 100 kms ( most of them were on the Portuguese and I cannot remember one single pilgrim, walking from A Coruña )or could not show 2 stamps a day on these last 100 kms

 

[Corned Beef]

could not show 2 stamps a day on these last 100 kms

It's a bit annoying to turn up after starting a SJPP only to be told you needed 2 stamps and then advised there was no distance certificate either due to some other rule. But "rules is rules".

Luckily I know He (so She) doesn't care about certificates.

 

[Tom Conklin]

It's a bit annoying to turn up after starting a SJPP only to be told you needed 2 stamps and then advised there was no distance certificate either due to some other rule. But "rules is rules".

Luckily I know He (so She) doesn't care about certificates.

I'm not sure they would be too picky about a SJdPP Camino. I know the gentleman I worked with wasn't too worried about it after a Via with less than one stamp a day.

It would be interesting to know if anyone is ever turned away. They gave me grief after my Porto with only one a day but they still issued a Compostela.

 

[Kathar1na]

Unfortunate choice of words in the thread title, @Bradypus . Surely the thread is not meant as yet another thread about who gets a Compostela and who doesn’t? Isn‘t it about who choses to go to the Pilgrim Office and gets a stamp and gets counted, and who doesn’t?

Fwiw, I didn’t get a stamp from a pilgrim office and I did not get counted - neither in SJPP nor in Santiago. A pity as far as Santiago is concerned as I did visit the Cathedral and would have liked to get a stamp in and from the Cathedral - but I am happy with the one I got from San Martín de Pinario, too. Enough proof to remind me that I did arrive at the destination after a pretty long walk.

 

[Bradypus]

@Kathar1na I'm interested in the number or percentage of people who walk a Camino that would qualify them for a Compostela but choose not to ask for one. The ones who have walked the walk but are invisible as far as the pilgrim office statistics are concerned. For the past few years I am in that category myself. Though the question of those who walk the Ingles from A Coruna is also an interesting one.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I no longer collect Compostelas, but my son may still be interested. We will soon be walking the second half of the Norte and it looks like Baamonde is the start of the final 100k to Santiago. I am assuming he would need two stamps per day at that point?

 

[Kathar1na]

I'm interested in the number or percentage of people who walk a Camino that would qualify them for a Compostela but choose not to ask for one.

To be precise, I think the numbers that the Pilgrim Office publishes are all the pilgrims who walk through their door: “Compostela“, “Welcome Certificate”, and ”Stamp only, please” pilgrims. And comments have drifted away already to the who is qualified for a Compostela question and how many stamps a day are needed for this qualification and when and where … but that’s always interesting, too, of course.

 

[Bradypus]

The "welcome certificate" seems to be an endangered species these days. There seem to be very few issued but they would be included in the statistics. I'm not so sure that anyone asking for "solo sello" is recorded. Certainly no one has taken details of my route, nationality and all the other things that appear in the statistics that are published.

 

[sillydoll]

The Compostela, based on a 14th c document has changed many times. There were long periods where it was not issued, especially in the modern era.
The rather arbitrary 100km requirement was introduced in 1999 to ensure some 'suffering and effort' on behalf of the pilgrim.

The TOURIST certificate is given to those who walk for cultural, sporting or any reason other than religious or spiritual. [IMHO it is just as attractive as the Compostela]

3. HALFWAY certificate: You can get this in Sahagun at the Tourist Office for €3

4. DISTANCE certificate: If you walked more than 100 km and you'd like some recognition for your long, hard trek, you can ask for a distance certificate (€3) at the pilgrim office.

5. CATHEDRAL certificate: The Cathedral of Santiago used to offer all those who visit the Basilica of St. James a Certificate of Visit that provided evidence of the stay in the Cathedral. This document, which costs 3 euro, can be ordered at the headquarters of the Confraternity of St. James, at the praza da Quintana, by the Holy Door. The certificate, printed on parchment paper, is personal, and is decorated with an image of the Apostle of the Portico de la Gloria and a detail of the Breviary of Miranda.

6. FISTERANA: issued at the albergue in Finisterre. You must have at least 3 stamps in your pilgrim passports.

7. MUXIA certificate: issued at the albergue in Muxia, you will need to have a stamp at Linares.

There is also a University 'credencial' and 'Compostela'. Known as the Jacobean University credential it is issued by the University of Navarra as part of an initiative launched in 2002 with the aim of extending the Camino of Santiago among the university community on an international level.
The university Accreditation can be requested over the Internet, or can be collected in Pamplona in person, from the Central de la University de Navarra. On this document, and aside from the usual stamps collected by walkers on the traditional credential, pilgrims are asked to have the credential stamped by the universities along their walk. In this way, and, after arriving in Santiago, the walker will be entitled to, not only the traditional Compostela, but also the Jacobean University Certificate (the University compostela) to certify having completed the university pilgrimage to Santiago.
To acquire the University Compostela pilgrims should send by post, email, or alternatively, they can visit the student Office in person (Campus Central building of Pamplona) and submit the original or, a photocopy of the university credential complete with the university stamps, the traditional stamps collected along the Way, the stamp of their University of origin and that of the pilgrim Office which collected the Compostela at the end of their journey. Once the office has received all the necessary documentation from the University of Navarra, the Jacobean University Certificate will be sent to the home address of the pilgrim.
I desperately wanted a Compostela the first time and ticked all 4 boxes - Spiritual, Religious, Cultural, Sport - to ensure that I was given one! I have a Tourist Certificate, one distance certificate and a Fisiterana.
I've walked to Santiago 13 times since 2002 and stopped asking for the certificates.

 

[Fr Scott]

I've just been reading an article on a Ferrol news website which notes a substantial increase in numbers walking the Camino Ingles so far this year compared with 2022. Similar scale increase to that across the board in the pilgrim office statistics generally. Of course these numbers are from the records of those who request a Compostela on arrival in Santiago. The article mentions a 2022 survey by the University of A Coruña and the municipalities along the route which estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela and so do not feature in the reported figures. A substantial number. I have had the impression for some time that the number of those who choose not to ask for a Compostela is increasing but this seems like a very large percentage. Perhaps it is a phenomenon mostly confined to the lesser-walked Caminos which are favoured more by those who have already walked one or more Caminos?

Los peregrinos despegan en marzo y superan los números de 2022

En el primer trimestre han salido de Ferrol 755 personas, la mayoría de ellas extranjeras ...

www.diariodeferrol.com

I waited in line for my Compostela after my first Camino. After that, I did not get one, and I did not get stamps. I only used the passport to get into the Albergue.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Perhaps the buskar at the entrance to the plaza could be paid to count every pilgrim entering for a more accurate number...but they absolutely must be wearing a backpack or they don't qualify to be counted.

 

[malingerer]

Is there a rowing club?

Nah ! Only coracles for the pure of Heart !

Samarkand

 

[Ant]

I recall posts on the forum indicating that some pilgrims with several Caminos under their belt no longer ask for a Compostela, and I suppose many who are not walking for religious or spiritual reasons would not be interested anyway.

Like me, just the first.

 

[woody66]

I've just been reading an article on a Ferrol news website which notes a substantial increase in numbers walking the Camino Ingles so far this year compared with 2022. Similar scale increase to that across the board in the pilgrim office statistics generally. Of course these numbers are from the records of those who request a Compostela on arrival in Santiago. The article mentions a 2022 survey by the University of A Coruña and the municipalities along the route which estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela and so do not feature in the reported figures. A substantial number. I have had the impression for some time that the number of those who choose not to ask for a Compostela is increasing but this seems like a very large percentage. Perhaps it is a phenomenon mostly confined to the lesser-walked Caminos which are favoured more by those who have already walked one or more Caminos?

I think that your suggestion about claiming a Compostela and having walked a previous Camino is a possibility.
Although a rate of one in three pilgrims does seem a lot!!
I so far have only walked one Camino, but start the Frances in early May!
This time i don't intend to get a Compostela or on any future Camino.
I have one which holds and will always hold the most significance.
My Pilgrim passport will mark the journey.
I don't think i am the only person who will think like this.
There is also a number of pilgrims that don't have the time to wait, or arrive late to Santiago; as their arrival date is their departure date home.
(i walked in at around 7pm with a Puerto Rican lady who had to fly to Madrid at 11pm that night.)

Woody

 

[t2andreo]

It's a bit annoying to turn up after starting a SJPP only to be told you needed 2 stamps and then advised there was no distance certificate either due to some other rule. But "rules is rules".

Luckily I know He (so She) doesn't care about certificates.

The two stamps per day requirement is clearly written in the Credencial - at least most of the credentials approved by the Cathedral authorities.

 

[Robertb345]

I wonder if being a holy year skews the numbers a bit too. More people doing it to get the certificate than in years not designated as holy years. So for holy years the percentages not requesting the Compostela is lower ?!?

 

[t2andreo]

No one truly knows how many people properly complete a Camino, then do not ask for a Compostela.

Having worked many years as a volunteer during the busy summer months I can tell you that the number of people approaching me to ask only for the final stamp to signify they made it to the Pilgrim Office is significant - perhaps a dozen or two daily.

That said, no one bothers to tally the number of "solo sello" pilgrims. These are folks who only want the final stamp and nothing more. Then again, there are those who do not even seek to final stamp form the Pilgrim Office.

If I had to hazard a partially-informed guess, I would venture something in the 5 to 8 percent range. But, lacking data, this is just a wild-assed guesstimate.

Hope this helps the dialog.

Tom

 

[Bradypus]

Having worked many years as a volunteer during the busy summer months I can tell you that the number of people approaching me to ask only for the final stamp to signify they made it to the Pilgrim Office is significant - perhaps a dozen or two daily.

@t2andreo Thank you. Given the huge numbers arriving in the summer months these days a dozen or two asking for "solo sello" per day seems a very small number.

 

[J Willhaus]

@t2andreo do you have to use the electronic system to get the final stamp or is that only for the compostella? I might get a final stamp if it were not too much hassel...but if we are not counted it may not be worthwhile. Otherwise, I would just a final stamp from my hotel or albergue...

 

[Bert45]

The answer to the question is unknowable. One of the "known unknowns". It's a bit like they say on the news that X% of crimes of a certain type are not reported. How do they know? I suppose they could do a survey: Question: Did you suffer from X crime in the past year? Did you report it to the police? But are they going to say they suffered from the crime if they didn't report it?

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

We are planning flight to Coruna, walk Coruna, Ferrol, Santiago and back to Coruna. Gotta be a flight ‘cos I still can’t find anyone in the Yacht Club with a sense of adventure.
We won’t be claiming Compostelas so that’ll be a few more missing from the stats

Danny Sheehy has left us, but perhaps you could ring up Glen Hansard and the other lads and see if they'd build you a new naomhóg??

 

[Entrenous]

I walked the Frances last year from start to finish. I collected all the stamps but did not get the Compostela. I knew it would just sit in a drawer somewhere. I do intend to maybe frame my credential at some point though. Doesn’t really help you but it’s an example of someone who did not collect.

 

[DOver]

This being my first Camino, I followed several sites that offered information. Slowly, my personal Camino evolved... things that didn't fit fell away and things that suited my desire emerged. All decisions, both for and against, have been based on my belief that my journey is a spiritual one. Some of the decisions I can't explain, I simply know they're right for me. Things like my not taking any photos or writing during the journey. Or, my knowing that I'll never walk The Frances.
Whenever I've joined discussions that touch on these, so many take my personal choices as some sort of judgement on THEIR decisions. Which I've never done.
I said all that to say this:
Collecting a Compostela was never a factor in my decision to walk the Camino. But, I had originally planned to visit Santiago and would probably have gotten one. Now, it's become important for me NOT to collect. This thread isn't asking why, so won't muddy the water.
I'll begin my journey in Madrid, walk to those places that have called to me, and end the portion of my journey that most would consider a "Camino" at Muxia.
And, I'll collect no paper, at the end.

 

[BennyB]

It would be nice if they found an accurate way to collect that information. It seems to me that most people do get it for a first Camino, but that number seems to decrease as people return to the Camino. And the most frequent Camino walkers are less likely to get it. Since the Frances is the most popular route for first timers (and Portuguese is next) - I would assume there numbers are probably most accurate. But then again - there are those who do the same routes over and over!

I think the only way to maybe accurately gage the true number of people walking the Camino would be if they gave a stamp at the Cathedral and required everyone to get a stamp at the Cathedral before going to the Pilgrim's office to get the Compostela. I would suspect most people would get that stamp at the Cathedral, even if they don't want to get a Compostela. I would be curious to know how many, if any, don't at least visit the Cathedral on arrival? But of course - to get the number of Pilgrims who get the stamp at the Cathedral would require people to give the stamp and count pilgrims, or at least a monitored automatic stamp machine (lol... I know... who wants a machine to give their final stamp, not me!)... and would create traffic flow issues at the Cathedral. But - if they are just giving a stamp in your pre-existing credential - it wouldn't take much time at all - or maybe it would. Doesn't matter - I doubt they will want to do it! After all - they wouldn't have built a Pilgrim's Office in the first place if it wasn't so cumbersome of a process already.

Oh well - I am guessing we will never know the true answer? But I would love to know what it is!

Where, in the Cathedral does one obtain the final stamp?

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

There is also a University 'credencial' and 'Compostela'. Known as the Jacobean University credential it is issued by the University of Navarra as part of an initiative launched in 2002 with the aim of extending the Camino of Santiago among the university community on an international level.
The university Accreditation can be requested over the Internet, or can be collected in Pamplona in person, from the Central de la University de Navarra. On this document, and aside from the usual stamps collected by walkers on the traditional credential, pilgrims are asked to have the credential stamped by the universities along their walk. In this way, and, after arriving in Santiago, the walker will be entitled to, not only the traditional Compostela, but also the Jacobean University Certificate (the University compostela) to certify having completed the university pilgrimage to Santiago.
To acquire the University Compostela pilgrims should send by post, email, or alternatively, they can visit the student Office in person (Campus Central building of Pamplona) and submit the original or, a photocopy of the university credential complete with the university stamps, the traditional stamps collected along the Way, the stamp of their University of origin and that of the pilgrim Office which collected the Compostela at the end of their journey. Once the office has received all the necessary documentation from the University of Navarra, the Jacobean University Certificate will be sent to the home address of the pilgrim.
I desperately wanted a Compostela the first time and ticked all 4 boxes - Spiritual, Religious, Cultural, Sport - to ensure that I was given one! I have a Tourist Certificate, one distance certificate and a Fisiterana.
I've walked to Santiago 13 times since 2002 and stopped asking for the certificates.

I am delighted by this prospect and have just ordered one! Thank you so much for bringing it to our attention. It won't be something that appeals to everyone, but to a certain kind of dork (like me), the appeal is powerful and I can *hardly wait* to make a point of including more academic sites into my walks.

 

[C clearly]

estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela...this seems like a very large percentage.

Based on nothing but my own motives, feelings and impressiions, this doesn't seem high at all, to me.

 

[Tincatinker]

Where, in the Cathedral does one obtain the final stamp?

From the Pilgrims Office, not the cathedral, and just let the security people know “solo sello” to save yourself some queuing.

I’ve gotten a stamp from the cathedral ticket office in the past. Usually shorter queues mid-week: but much has, and more may have, changed since I last darkened the streets of Santiago.

 

[Kathar1na]

I recall having read for years that the number of foot pilgrims arriving in Santiago is some 30% or even […] higher than the number of pilgrims who register at the pilgrims office.

I found a first source that I had seen earlier. It was published in 2006 !

(translated into English): We must also consider that each year there seems to be a smaller proportion of pilgrims who collect a Compostela, having fallen from 90% to 85%, due not only to a lack of interest in the document but also because there is a significant number who repeat the experience and after the second time no longer request the document, thus being left out of the statistics that the Cathedral maintains and which are the most used.

So they put the percentage at 15% in 2006. This was nearly 20 years ago and I would not be surprised if both the lack of interest and the proportion of peregrin@s on their second and subsequent Caminos has increased since then.

 

[Walli Walker]

I only got a Compostela after my first Camino, Camino Francis. I have walked many Caminos since but have never bothered to get another one.

 

[_zoro_]

I completed the Frances last year and did not register. In my mind it took away from what I wanted to do which was to walk in contemplation, meet some folks along the way and be open to any transformation. I’m not a Christian so I thought it would be silly for me.

 

[Janade]

I opted not to get mine. The line was huge and it occurred to me that I didn’t need a certificate to validate my experience when there were places to see that I might never visit again. I ended up taking a bus tour to Muxia and Finesterre and some beautiful places along the way. Never regretted it. Not saying that folks only get a Compostela for validation or bragging rights - I’m sure that there are many reasons that having a Compostela is important, religious reasons or not. To each their own.

 

[Madis]

I start to lose point in collecting papers giving me a certificate of finishing the same Camino route over and over again as years pass. Having 1 certificate per each long Camino is already good enough

1. Camino Frances - got it 2x (really started to doubt getting the second one after talking with locals that have done 20+ Caminos)
2. Camino Portuguese - already have one starting from Lisbon
3. Camino Finisterre - got one luckily when they still gave those out
4. Camino Norte - will start next month and get certificate although I switch to Primitivo halfway through
5. Camino Primitivo - not sure if I will ever start hiking from Oviedo, but if I do I would want a certificate
6. Via de la Plata - planning to do this next year and want a certificate
7. Camino Ingles - have considered doing this instead of walking to Muxia/Finisterre every time after reaching Santiago. Will want a certificate once.

These 7 are all the certificates I will realistically want in time. After that I will start doing weird Camino mixes anyways. There are so many ways to walk part of the old familiar and still discover new things.

Starting Frances from Bordeaux, going north from Leon to Oviedo and then hopping to Norte to avoid Sarria pilgrims -> what Camino(s) did I walk and how would they calculate the distance(s)?

 

[t2andreo]

@t2andreo Thank you. Given the huge numbers arriving in the summer months these days a dozen or two asking for "solo sello" per day seems a very small number.

Yes, it is a small number. But if more veteran pilgrims opted for this, their requests can be handled at the front door / entry vestibule. They need not queue for anything.

This could be the start of something that would help overall. But, for anyone who still wants a Compostela or Distancia, tey will need to go through the process.

If you only want the final stamp to signify you made it that far and to close out your credential, just announce / solo sello, por favor" to the security folks at the front door. They will take care of you right away.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[t2andreo]

@t2andreo do you have to use the electronic system to get the final stamp or is that only for the compostella? I might get a final stamp if it were not too much hassel...but if we are not counted it may not be worthwhile. Otherwise, I would just a final stamp from my hotel or albergue...

NO, if all you plan to do is announce at the front door that you only want a sello "Solo sello, por favor," to close out your Credencial, you need not register online.

On the other hand, if someone in authority decides - someday - that it is time to count all those who started but do not choose to ask for a Compostela or Distancia, they MIGHT make it mandatory to register online, even to receive only the close-out sello. I have no idea of how this might progress.

They might (as in could or maybe) also require you to state through the online app that you only want the close-out stamp / sello in lieu of a Compostela or Distancia. That would provide daily numbers, by route, of those who start but - while they might finish at Santiago - opt not to ask for a Compostela or Distancia.

Mathematically, those who register online, but who do not arrive for a Compostela within a set period of time, might be counted as DNF - did not finish - or at least DNC - did not (request a) Compostela.

Again, these are just random thoughts. I do not direct the process or changes.

I can personally see the value in knowing how many people start, but who do not request documentation (Compostela or Distancia) at the end. On the other hand, I think the available statistics might be enough to infer these outcomes. As I said earlier, it will take someone more clever than me to sort this issue out.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[jennysa]

I've just been reading an article on a Ferrol news website which notes a substantial increase in numbers walking the Camino Ingles so far this year compared with 2022. Similar scale increase to that across the board in the pilgrim office statistics generally. Of course these numbers are from the records of those who request a Compostela on arrival in Santiago. The article mentions a 2022 survey by the University of A Coruña and the municipalities along the route which estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela and so do not feature in the reported figures. A substantial number. I have had the impression for some time that the number of those who choose not to ask for a Compostela is increasing but this seems like a very large percentage. Perhaps it is a phenomenon mostly confined to the lesser-walked Caminos which are favoured more by those who have already walked one or more Caminos?

Los peregrinos despegan en marzo y superan los números de 2022

En el primer trimestre han salido de Ferrol 755 personas, la mayoría de ellas extranjeras ...

www.diariodeferrol.com

I didnt go the Pilgrim Office last year to get a Compostela and I will not go again this year. I did get a Compostela for all my other Caminos.

 

[WGroleau]

I went through every page of the Estadísticas but alas, they haven’t included that number.

It would be nice if they found an accurate way to collect that information. It seems to me that most people do get it for a first Camino, but that number seems to decrease …

Seriously, there is obviously no way. Getting a stamp before going into the cathedral won’t work. If I'm not willing to stand in line for a piece of paper, why would I stand in line to get into the cathedral? Or stand in line for a stamp? And if you could accurately count the people arriving in Santiago, you'll still miss those who willingly or reluctantly take a bus to Bilbao or London or Biarritz or Madrid before finishing.

One might get a reasonable estimate by standing somewhere along the path near Santiago and asking "do you intend to get a Compostela or is a sello sufficient?" Then multiply the percentage by the official statistics.

For what it's worth, you can count me. I saw no point in getting a piece of paper that I would surely lose. So instead, I put my sellos in a journal—which I have also lost!

 

[WGroleau]

NO, if all you plan to do is announce at the front door that you only want a sello "Solo sello, por favor," to close out your Credencial, you need not register online.

Is this new? Three or four years ago, no one asked me anything when I walked into that office and got only a sello.

On the other hand, if someone in authority decides - someday - that it is time to count all those who started but do not choose to ask for a Compostela or Distancia, they MIGHT make it mandatory to register online, even to receive only the close-out sello. I have no idea of how this might progress.

I don't think that will work either. There will be some percentage who will refuse to enter any information online, and a certain number who will react "none of your business!" to some question they feel is too personal and walk away without completing. My mother, for example, can type faster than me (and I have done 66 wpm) but she refuses to touch a computer keyboard.

 

[t2andreo]

Is this new? Three or four years ago, no one asked me anything when I walked into that office and got only a sello.

I don't think that will work either. There will be some percentage who will refuse to enter any information online, and a certain number who will react "none of your business!" to some question they feel is too personal and walk away without completing. My mother, for example, can type faster than me (and I have done 66 wpm) but she refuses to touch a computer keyboard.

NO, asking for only a sello is not new. They have been doing it for years.

I invite you to read the post I just made about how busy this week, Semana Santa, is at the Pilgrim Office. You can find it here:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/very-busy-semana-santa-at-the-santiago-pilgrim-office.79807/

What has transpired will interest anyone who might otherwise have turned away from obtaining a Compostela or Distance Certificate because of the lines and waiting previously require.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[Ron Cesvalles]

It is encouraging to hear that so many pilgrims have learned one of the most important things the Camino teaches you.
That the last thing you need is another piece of paper.

 

[Brent Macdonald]

I wanted to share about my experience getting a compestala and why I’ll never get another one!

In 2021 I had the pleasure of walking from Barcelona to Finistere - Mediterranean to the Atlantic was always a journey I wanted to do and it was a tremendous experience especially as my father walked the first 24 days with me all the way to logrono where he had always planned to stop. This was still during covid and many places were closed on the Catalan and it was common to walk over 20km a day without finding any cafes or stores open - my dad was 75 and crushed the Catalan, including the climb up Montserrat and the Aragones- very proud of him!

I started the journey with my father and I finished the journey with my mother who passed on to young due to cancer but it was her toughness and love that kept me going to the Atlantic after 52 days of walking!

So I wanted to have the Compostela made out to her as she was with me - I was very emotional about this and was hoping I wouldn’t break down in the pilgrims office!

Well when I walked in and told the lady where I had started from she just seemed pissed off that she couldn’t just write down Sarria and move on! No congrats or anything then she kept answering her phone and ignoring me.

i mentioned finally that I would like to have it written out in my mothers name that I was walking for her - well now she was really mad! She told me that my mother had to be deceased or incapable of walking on her own and I responded that she was passed on. Now we all had masks on due to covid and it was hard to hear and she asked “what” I said again that she had passed “what” she is dead “what” I had to eventually scream “she is dead” I was shaking I was so upset with anger not the emotion I thought I would be having at this moment!

She didn’t care in the slightest and was only upset that she couldn’t find my mothers name in Latin for the compestala.

I walked out and vowed never to go back!

 

[C clearly]

I walked out and vowed never to go back!

Wow! That is an awful experience and I can understand your anger, and even your initial vow to never go back. However, IF it is still bothering you significantly, perhaps it would be a relief to go back when you have an opportunity, to hopefully over-ride that experience.

(Maybe the person at the Office had just received a disturbing phone call. Maybe she was struggling with a hearing problem exacerbated by the masks. Likely she would be very chagrined to read about the effect her behaviour had on you. But maybe she was just insensitive and should be removed from those duties. At this point we don't know.)

 

[Flog]

Perhaps the lady dealing with you was having a bad day, or perhaps you yourself were having a bad day and didn't put it across well. Usually it takes two..

.. just saying

 

[Brent Macdonald]

Perhaps the lady dealing with you was having a bad day, or perhaps you yourself were having a bad day and didn't put it across well. Usually it takes two..

.. just saying

I was having a bad day? I had just walked from the Mediterranean - every step - with my father - I hadn’t taken a rest day until Santiago - I had met the most amazing people and experienced so much it’s hard to describe - I was actually having a really good day - until then - just saying

 

[Brent Macdonald]

I was having a bad day? I had just walked from the Mediterranean - every step - with my father - I hadn’t taken a rest day until Santiago - I had met the most amazing people and experienced so much it’s hard to describe - I was actually having a really good day - until then - just saying

And I apologize to sound snarky - still emotional about it I guess

Yes I imagine she was having a bad day - I hold no ill will and am moving on

 

[Flog]

And I apologize to sound snarky - still emotional about it I guess

Yes I imagine she was having a bad day - I hold no ill will and am moving on

We should remember it can at times be a stressful environment for both pilgrims and staff.. emotions run high and our expectations can't always be met, for some it can be an anticlimax.

2021 was a particularly difficult year, communication at busy times was often next to impossible, exacerbated with trying to communicate across languages through masks and plastic screens which reflect noise, the introduction of a new system etc, all of it very frustrating. For all.

I'm sorry to hear about the experience as you've described it and I do sympathise. Many pilgrims have described unhappy experiences but they all have the one thing in common:

They all tell just one side of a story.

 

[nathanael]

I've just been reading an article on a Ferrol news website which notes a substantial increase in numbers walking the Camino Ingles so far this year compared with 2022. Similar scale increase to that across the board in the pilgrim office statistics generally. Of course these numbers are from the records of those who request a Compostela on arrival in Santiago. The article mentions a 2022 survey by the University of A Coruña and the municipalities along the route which estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela and so do not feature in the reported figures. A substantial number. I have had the impression for some time that the number of those who choose not to ask for a Compostela is increasing but this seems like a very large percentage. Perhaps it is a phenomenon mostly confined to the lesser-walked Caminos which are favoured more by those who have already walked one or more Caminos?

Los peregrinos despegan en marzo y superan los números de 2022

En el primer trimestre han salido de Ferrol 755 personas, la mayoría de ellas extranjeras ...

www.diariodeferrol.com

I will be walking my 13th. Camino and will not get a Compostela nor did I get one last year. I have two on my wall and got rid of two others.

 

[Stivandrer]

No one truly knows how many people properly complete a Camino, then do not ask for a Compostela.


Tom

Just to be clear on this:
If and when you turn up to the pilgrim office in SdC and get your final stamp, will you not then be a part of the statistics and do they ask you where you started and what your nationality is?
Because this would solve the stat problem/ inaccuracy...
After getting one compostela for myself and one for my father ( In Vicare Pro), I am not planning for any more in the future..
I do not need more notches in my belt, I can just count my sets of boots...

 

[Bradypus]

Just to be clear on this:
If and when you turn up to the pilgrim office in SdC and get your final stamp, will you not then be a part of the statistics and do they ask you where you started and what your nationality is?

I asked for just the final sello in January. The office was very quiet at the time. No questions were asked and none of my details were recorded. In and out in a minute or less.

 

[Flog]

Just to be clear on this:
If and when you turn up to the pilgrim office in SdC and get your final stamp, will you not then be a part of the statistics and do they ask you where you started and what your nationality is?
Because this would solve the stat problem/ inaccuracy...

No, you won't be asked anything. At the door you'll just be directed in to get your credential stamped and you'll be advised that once it's stamped, it's closed and you wont be able to use it to claim a compostela in the future. You won't be added to or part of any statistic.

Even if they were to ask and record your details, it would be meaningless. Short of counting every pilgrim on every route into Santiago, there is no way in the world of telling how many or what percentage of pilgrims arrive in Santiago but don't bother with a compostela. Only the pilgrims who claim a compostela are a true and accurate statistic. They are counted and logged. Everything else is a guess.

 

[Stivandrer]

Pity !!
opportunity wasted ...

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

It would be nice if they found an accurate way to collect that information. It seems to me that most people do get it for a first Camino, but that number seems to decrease as people return to the Camino. And the most frequent Camino walkers are less likely to get it. Since the Frances is the most popular route for first timers (and Portuguese is next) - I would assume there numbers are probably most accurate. But then again - there are those who do the same routes over and over!

I think the only way to maybe accurately gage the true number of people walking the Camino would be if they gave a stamp at the Cathedral and required everyone to get a stamp at the Cathedral before going to the Pilgrim's office to get the Compostela. I would suspect most people would get that stamp at the Cathedral, even if they don't want to get a Compostela. I would be curious to know how many, if any, don't at least visit the Cathedral on arrival? But of course - to get the number of Pilgrims who get the stamp at the Cathedral would require people to give the stamp and count pilgrims, or at least a monitored automatic stamp machine (lol... I know... who wants a machine to give their final stamp, not me!)... and would create traffic flow issues at the Cathedral. But - if they are just giving a stamp in your pre-existing credential - it wouldn't take much time at all - or maybe it would. Doesn't matter - I doubt they will want to do it! After all - they wouldn't have built a Pilgrim's Office in the first place if it wasn't so cumbersome of a process already.

Oh well - I am guessing we will never know the true answer? But I would love to know what it is!

But the compostela is not intended to count to number of people walking; it is intended to acknowledge the end of a pilgrimage of some version, regardless of how long it takes to complete, or the distance travelled so long as one meets the minimum. That is: the compostela process does not make a value distinction about the "full Frances" of the common view of SJPdp or Roncesvalles or Pamplona from a start out of Sarria, or a start from Tour, Paris, or Berlin, etc...
So, methodologically speaking, the completed compostela cannot ever deliver more statist data because it simply is not tracking that. All it is tracking it how many spiritual completions are being sought in paper noted form on any given day in SdC.
Starting numbers and albergue numbers give us a better sense of total numbers of walkers and of the revenues generated -- which are state/economic interests, not spiritual ones.

 

[alexwalker]

I've just been reading an article on a Ferrol news website which notes a substantial increase in numbers walking the Camino Ingles so far this year compared with 2022. Similar scale increase to that across the board in the pilgrim office statistics generally. Of course these numbers are from the records of those who request a Compostela on arrival in Santiago. The article mentions a 2022 survey by the University of A Coruña and the municipalities along the route which estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela and so do not feature in the reported figures. A substantial number. I have had the impression for some time that the number of those who choose not to ask for a Compostela is increasing but this seems like a very large percentage. Perhaps it is a phenomenon mostly confined to the lesser-walked Caminos which are favoured more by those who have already walked one or more Caminos?

Los peregrinos despegan en marzo y superan los números de 2022

En el primer trimestre han salido de Ferrol 755 personas, la mayoría de ellas extranjeras ...

www.diariodeferrol.com

I have two Compostelas at home. I have walked many different caminos the last 15 years or so.

However, I once had issued a 3rd compostela, but it resides in the Amazon jungle. A young man from Equador came to Norway to seek a better fortune, and became a family friend of us, but he was brutally murdered a few years later by a phsycic. Cut up in 8 pieces...

He used to be a tour guide in the Amazon, and he was from a poor family of indians there. We collected enough money to have him cremated and returned to his mother.

So on my next camino after that, I asked at the PO for a compostela "In vicario pro" his name, meaning I had walked it (the camino) for him, with all the benefits of having completed a pilgrimage. His mother was a catholic, and "my" compostela is now residing, framed, besides his urn in a small place of remembrance somewhere deep in the Amazon jungle.

His mother was very happy with that.

 

[Former member 92300]

But the compostela is not intended to count to number of people walking; it is intended to acknowledge the end of a pilgrimage of some version, regardless of how long it takes to complete, or the distance travelled so long as one meets the minimum. That is: the compostela process does not make a value distinction about the "full Frances" of the common view of SJPdp or Roncesvalles or Pamplona from a start out of Sarria, or a start from Tour, Paris, or Berlin, etc...
So, methodologically speaking, the completed compostela cannot ever deliver more statist data because it simply is not tracking that. All it is tracking it how many spiritual completions are being sought in paper noted form on any given day in SdC.
Starting numbers and albergue numbers give us a better sense of total numbers of walkers and of the revenues generated -- which are state/economic interests, not spiritual ones.

I never said that was the intention of the Compostela... but they do tally the number of Compostellas given out. And I already acknowledged that there are challenges to improving the count.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I never said that was the intention of the Compostela... but they do tally the number of Compostellas given out. And I already acknowledged that there are challenges to improving the count.

But they are counting what they want to count just fine. It is we who are demanding "improvements" for our own ends.
That is what I am getting at.

 

[Former member 92300]

But they are counting what they want to count just fine. It is we who are demanding "improvements" for our own ends.
That is what I am getting at.

LOL - I sort of already acknowledged that too in my original post that you quoted before. I am NOT DEMANDING anything. I simply gave my thoughts on how it would be nice if we had more accurate numbers. Don't see a reason to argue about something I have acknowledged is their decision and not mine.

But - if they are just giving a stamp in your pre-existing credential - it wouldn't take much time at all - or maybe it would. Doesn't matter - I doubt they will want to do it! After all - they wouldn't have built a Pilgrim's Office in the first place if it wasn't so cumbersome of a process already.

Oh well - I am guessing we will never know the true answer? But I would love to know what it is!

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Not arguing. I'm querying why we are asking an office that is not interested in counting walker to count walkers. It seems like knocking one's head against a wall.

 

[Former member 92300]

Not arguing. I'm querying why we are asking an office that is not interested in counting walker to count walkers. It seems like knocking one's head against a wall.

But I didn't ask the office to count anyone. I reacted to an article and shared my thoughts on a public discussion forum that is not in anyway shape or form connected directly to the Santiago Pilgrims Office or the Cathedral. Don't like my musings that is fine... But I am still curious to know what the real numbers are.

But I didn't ask anyone to do anything. If I wanted to do that - I would reach out to the Pilgrims Office or Cathedral - but I have no interest in doing that.

It seems to me your are knocking your head against a wall when I don't even disagree with you!

 

[C clearly]

It seems to me your are knocking your head against a wall when I don't even disagree with you!

No, I think @Perambulating Griffin is similarly offering thoughts on the topic, some thoughts being similar to yours and others less so. I don't see them knocking their head against a wall. Don't build a wall where only a few stepping stones are needed.

 

[Texas Walker]

I no longer collect Compostelas, but my son may still be interested. We will soon be walking the second half of the Norte and it looks like Baamonde is the start of the final 100k to Santiago. I am assuming he would need two stamps per day at that point?

Yes.

 

[Texas Walker]

This being my first Camino, I followed several sites that offered information. Slowly, my personal Camino evolved... things that didn't fit fell away and things that suited my desire emerged. All decisions, both for and against, have been based on my belief that my journey is a spiritual one. Some of the decisions I can't explain, I simply know they're right for me. Things like my not taking any photos or writing during the journey. Or, my knowing that I'll never walk The Frances.
Whenever I've joined discussions that touch on these, so many take my personal choices as some sort of judgement on THEIR decisions. Which I've never done.
I said all that to say this:
Collecting a Compostela was never a factor in my decision to walk the Camino. But, I had originally planned to visit Santiago and would probably have gotten one. Now, it's become important for me NOT to collect. This thread isn't asking why, so won't muddy the water.
I'll begin my journey in Madrid, walk to those places that have called to me, and end the portion of my journey that most would consider a "Camino" at Muxia.
And, I'll collect no paper, at the end.

Well, what works for you, works for you. Our first Camino walk was the Frances, in 2014. I had so much pain on that walk. And it was the first installment on our lessons that we are not in control, God is in control, and we got our Vompostelas. We framed them. And on later Camino walks, we got our Compistelas but we leave them in the tube. Likewise our Salvadoran.
But everyone walks his/her path. BC.

 

[Kiernan]

I just have my first Compostela, and I really don't need more of them.
The rest of them are....my boot soles, my memories, my experiences and my photos

K.

 

[KatrineF]

Ask Google and Apple - they probably better than any Office know since most of us are traced by our use of the internet…

 

[David Tallan]

Clearly what they need is to have people standing at all the entrances to the Plaza Obradoiro with little clickers to count every pilgrim who enters with a backpack. (If they aren't carrying a backpack, are they really a pilgrim?)

But many people enter multiple times. So what we need is a catch, tag, and release program for all of the pilgrims entering the plaza. It's the only way to get an accurate count. I'm sure no pilgrims would mind for a goal so worthy!

;-)

 

[Tincatinker]

Ask Google and Apple - they probably better than any Office know since most of us are traced by our use of the internet…

I did consider whether my banking app would substitute as a Credencial but then thought that even I might blush at a list of 300 bars stretching from France to Galicia.....

 

[Flog]

So what we need is a catch, tag, and release program for all of the pilgrims entering the plaza. It's the only way to get an accurate count. I'm sure no pilgrims would mind for a goal so worthy!

But would still be like trying to herd cats, hard enough trying to round up half a dozen pilgrims for a beer..

 

[Tincatinker]

catch, tag, and release program

a turnstile counter at that pinch point where the camino Frances crosses the railway/motorway bridge after Monte do Gozo would capture most. Especially since they've built the skate-board ramp. The Portuguese contingent could be caught with a similar gate just after that first bar in O Faramello.

Those grizzled veterans striding off the Plata and its feeder routes have been counted so often they probably feel like Orca off South Ronaldsay and would have no great statistical significance. Though I guess a third gate somewhere on the Ponte do Sar would scoop 'em in.

That only leaves a dribble coming in off the Ingles. The guys that run the coffee truck at the Poligno could probably cover that off

And while I've considered @David Tallan's suggestion of tag & release I'm also minded of the number of Thames Salmon tags that could be tracked to Landfill.... Pilgrims who have actually made it to the Praza do Obradoiro have suffered enough

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Clearly what they need is to have people standing at all the entrances to the Plaza Obradoiro with little clickers to count every pilgrim who enters with a backpack. (If they aren't carrying a backpack, are they really a pilgrim.
;-)

Similar to what I'd posted in my post #23.

 

[Heal_to_toe]

I've just been reading an article on a Ferrol news website which notes a substantial increase in numbers walking the Camino Ingles so far this year compared with 2022. Similar scale increase to that across the board in the pilgrim office statistics generally. Of course these numbers are from the records of those who request a Compostela on arrival in Santiago. The article mentions a 2022 survey by the University of A Coruña and the municipalities along the route which estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela and so do not feature in the reported figures. A substantial number. I have had the impression for some time that the number of those who choose not to ask for a Compostela is increasing but this seems like a very large percentage. Perhaps it is a phenomenon mostly confined to the lesser-walked Caminos which are favoured more by those who have already walked one or more Caminos?

Los peregrinos despegan en marzo y superan los números de 2022

En el primer trimestre han salido de Ferrol 755 personas, la mayoría de ellas extranjeras ...

www.diariodeferrol.com

I've just been reading an article on a Ferrol news website which notes a substantial increase in numbers walking the Camino Ingles so far this year compared with 2022. Similar scale increase to that across the board in the pilgrim office statistics generally. Of course these numbers are from the records of those who request a Compostela on arrival in Santiago. The article mentions a 2022 survey by the University of A Coruña and the municipalities along the route which estimated that about 30% of pilgrims on the Camino Ingles do not claim a Compostela and so do not feature in the reported figures. A substantial number. I have had the impression for some time that the number of those who choose not to ask for a Compostela is increasing but this seems like a very large percentage. Perhaps it is a phenomenon mostly confined to the lesser-walked Caminos which are favoured more by those who have already walked one or more Caminos?

Los peregrinos despegan en marzo y superan los números de 2022

En el primer trimestre han salido de Ferrol 755 personas, la mayoría de ellas extranjeras ...

www.diariodeferrol.com

I completed my first Camino Français in 2O18. I enjoyed it immensely and was looking forward to picking up my certificate. When I reached Sarria and noticed many pilgrims not wearing sizable rucksack sacks, I remembered fellow pilgrims mentioning the 100km 'Sarrians'. They looked fresh, they looked unfamiliar, they didn't look you in the eye and say 'Buen Camino' as I passed. A minivan drops others at a convenient fork on the tarmac road. At this point I felt if these pilgrims claim a certificate, I shan't. It's a sham in plain sight. Only after arriving and seeing the smiles and faces of contentment shown by the Pilgrims that I had seen day in and day out from St. Jean that I went along and queued at the certificate office. Perhaps some pilgrims don't have a change of mind and maintain that the certificate is simply an A4 paper that once home, stays in the drawer, and that one's thoughts and friendships made on the Way are more important.

 

[WGroleau]

NO, asking for only a sello is not new. They have been doing it for years.

My question was to the possible newness of someone standing at a door to whom you must say you only want a hello. There was no one at the door I walked through to get a stamp.

 

[WGroleau]

Only the pilgrims who claim a compostela are a true and accurate statistic. They are counted and logged. Everything else is a guess.

And the ones who get just the completion cert. But not the ones who get neither.

 

[Flog]

And the ones who get just the completion cert. But not the ones who get neither.

If you mean the welcome cert, there are almost none of these given out now.

 

[dougfitz]

If you mean the welcome cert, there are almost none of these given out now.

My wife tried to get one. After we had left the Pilgrim Office, we found she had been given a Compostela. It was just to late to go back and fix this mistake, but both she, I and now all of you know she did not walk for religious or spiritual reasons, but for the challenge of completing the journey.