How slow is slow enough? And some other questions.

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.

How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.

So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?

*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?

*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?

*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?

*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?

* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?

Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.

I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the difference. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?

 

[Keith Patterson]

'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.

How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.

So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?

*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?

*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?

*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?

*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?

* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?

Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.

I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the difference. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?

Haha, I like your sense of humour. It does get frustrating sometimes when people switch from lending on their own experiences - to giving advice. I just take it all in stride, I plan on walking my own Camino - at my own pace. Whatever that pace is that day. Buen Camino Beatrice (don't be such a grump - lol)

 

[wayfarer]

Every single person on the forum have their own opinion on all matters, rucksacks, boots, sleeping bags, how far to walk, how fast to walk, how slow to walk etc, that's what makes it a forum and there is no point in getting upset if others have differing opinions. I think one should always add IMO or in my opinion when giving advice rather than giving advice as the definitive answer, IMO.

 

[dougfitz]

@BeatriceKarjalainen it would be a shame to see you go, and not have your unique experience and perspective to share. There will always be naysayers, and some seem to be more intolerant of a diversity of opinion that others. Please don't go on their account.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Every single person on the forum have their own opinion on all matters, rucksacks, boots, sleeping bags, how far to walk, how fast to walk, how slow to walk etc, that's what makes it a forum and there is no point in getting upset if others have differing opinions. I think one should always add IMO or in my opinion when giving advice rather than giving advice as the definitive answer, IMO.

I can tolerate a different opinion but not when people telling others that they are doing it wrong. They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way". When I got back last time I almost didn't want to share anything at all. They are telling people that they haven't had the right experience or if someone asks before leaving telling them to skip sections instead of walking in a quite normal pace (for some). How can you experience more if you skip sections? How can that be more "true"? My questions are actually for those who always gives answers like that I really want them to answer. Because they must have some rule book I'm not aware of. Why not just give advise, pros and cons for long days/distances etc instead of saying "WRONG!!!" I', so sick and tired of hearing that everything I do I do it wrong ( I don't drink alcohol, that is WRONG in Sweden, I like to work in a technical field, that is WRONG for a girl etc etc etc....) . Not even the camino I seam to do the right way. I have a huge amount of questions about my upcoming camino but I know that I will get answers that tells me to slow down, start further toward Santiago etc etc etc. even if a ask not to get them (it was the same when I asked about SIM-card, directly I got the answers that I should not use Internet on my camino bla bla bla bla). So sick and tired of knowing that the first people to answer will be people who tells me I'm doing it wrong!

 

[LauraK]

I understand your frustration but the beauty of the forum is that it brings many people with a common interest together to share their thoughts, opinions and recommendations. I have read several of your posts and I think your input about walking longer distances adds a nice balance to the posts recommending a slower pace. Most people will take in all of the advice and figure out what works for them. I hope you don't leave the forum and continue to add your recommendations and insights.

 

[wayfarer]

I can tolerate a different opinion but not when people telling others that they are doing it wrong. They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way". When I got back last time I almost didn't want to share anything at all. They are telling people that they haven't had the right experience or if someone asks before leaving telling them to skip sections instead of walking in a quite normal pace (for some). How can you experience more if you skip sections? How can that be more "true"? My questions are actually for those who always gives answers like that I really want them to answer. Because they must have some rule book I'm not aware of. Why not just give advise, pros and cons for long days/distances etc instead of saying "WRONG!!!" I', so sick and tired of hearing that everything I do I do it wrong ( I don't drink alcohol, that is WRONG in Sweden, I like to work in a technical field, that is WRONG for a girl etc etc etc....) . Not even the camino I seam to do the right way. I have a huge amount of questions about my upcoming camino but I know that I will get answers that tells me to slow down, start further toward Santiago etc etc etc. even if a ask not to get them (it was the same when I asked about SIM-card, directly I got the answers that I should not use Internet on my camino bla bla bla bla). So sick and tired of knowing that the first people to answer will be people who tells me I'm doing it wrong!

As Doug said it would be a shame to see you go and I hope you don't. Your experience at walking at your pace is invaluable to like minded pilgrims. When I was younger I was a fast and long walker but alas no more, I envy your experience and energy and I can empathise with your frustration and I think people should answer the OP's question first and then give their advice or opinion afterwards IMO.

 

[NualaOC]

Very valid points @BeatriceKarjalainen - there can be rapid and unfounded criticism of the fast walkers, in start contrast to the great support for those who prefer a slower pace. I agree that this isn't fair or logical, and I share your annoyance when people jump in with their own opinion, rather than considering the question that was asked by the OP (as happened in the thread you mentioned, and in your own recent one).

That said, the beauty of a forum is that everyone has their say, however annoying that may be at times. We also have the right to reply -as you have done so effectively here!

The critics are in a very small minority - so it would be a shame to take their comments to heart. I enjoy your posts and I really hope that you don't leave the forum.

 

[LauraK]

I can tolerate a different opinion but not when people telling others that they are doing it wrong. They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way". When I got back last time I almost didn't want to share anything at all. They are telling people that they haven't had the right experience or if someone asks before leaving telling them to skip sections instead of walking in a quite normal pace (for some). How can you experience more if you skip sections? How can that be more "true"? My questions are actually for those who always gives answers like that I really want them to answer. Because they must have some rule book I'm not aware of. Why not just give advise, pros and cons for long days/distances etc instead of saying "WRONG!!!" I', so sick and tired of hearing that everything I do I do it wrong ( I don't drink alcohol, that is WRONG in Sweden, I like to work in a technical field, that is WRONG for a girl etc etc etc....) . Not even the camino I seam to do the right way. I have a huge amount of questions about my upcoming camino but I know that I will get answers that tells me to slow down, start further toward Santiago etc etc etc. even if a ask not to get them (it was the same when I asked about SIM-card, directly I got the answers that I should not use Internet on my camino bla bla bla bla). So sick and tired of knowing that the first people to answer will be people who tells me I'm doing it wrong!

Beatrice: the interesting thing is that what is viewed as "wrong" seems to change over time. When I first walked the camino over 10 years ago it was deemed wrong to carry any electronic device including a phone, wrong to step on a bus or other transport, wrong to skip a section, wrong if you didn't start in SJPDP, wrong if you didn't join pilgrims in albergues and stayed in hotels, wrong if you didn't carry your own backpack, etc. You weren't considered a true pilgrim if you did any of these things. Let's hope that we all can learn to avoid the word "wrong" and stick to making suggestions that can be used or not.

 

[Helen1]

Don’t leave! Your posts make a refreshing change from the slow pace approach to the camino. I enjoy your posts and I am envious of your pace - mine is about 2.5 mph which makes for some long days.

I suspect that there are a lot of lurkers on this forum who walk longer distances or walk more quickly but we don’t post because we know the slow pace advocates will comment about the need to slow down. Perhaps we need to be more vocal.

In my view it’s more important to take time out from your life, the speed or distance you walk really doesn’t matter. I had my best experiences walking the camino in the evening, visiting small churches with the family sitting around minding the doors or simply enjoying the peace and quiet and the sunsets. Stopping at 11am and having to noodle around for the rest of the day, spending hours on your phone to people at home and then drinking heavily in the evening is not something I find appealing.

I really liked the blog posts from the chap who ran the camino recently, a very different experience to the one most of us will have but I think that took a lot of inner strength and soul searching. Slow going is one approach but it’s not for everyone.

 

[CarolineMathieson]

Beatrice, everyone has their own natural pace. Walk quicker than that and you will suffer and may cause damage. Walk slower than that and the same may happen. Everyone's pace is different, mine happens to be slow plodding. Try not to let the trolls get to you with their "hollier than though" BS.

 

[jpflavin1]

I can tolerate a different opinion but not when people telling others that they are doing it wrong. They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way". When I got back last time I almost didn't want to share anything at all. They are telling people that they haven't had the right experience or if someone asks before leaving telling them to skip sections instead of walking in a quite normal pace (for some). How can you experience more if you skip sections? How can that be more "true"? My questions are actually for those who always gives answers like that I really want them to answer. Because they must have some rule book I'm not aware of. Why not just give advise, pros and cons for long days/distances etc instead of saying "WRONG!!!" I', so sick and tired of hearing that everything I do I do it wrong ( I don't drink alcohol, that is WRONG in Sweden, I like to work in a technical field, that is WRONG for a girl etc etc etc....) . Not even the camino I seam to do the right way. I have a huge amount of questions about my upcoming camino but I know that I will get answers that tells me to slow down, start further toward Santiago etc etc etc. even if a ask not to get them (it was the same when I asked about SIM-card, directly I got the answers that I should not use Internet on my camino bla bla bla bla). So sick and tired of knowing that the first people to answer will be people who tells me I'm doing it wrong!

Beatrice:

Some people do not know how to express an opinion without it being in absolute terms. We all know there is no one way to walk a Camino. How each individual chooses to walk their Camino is right for them. Where they start, sandals or boots, sticks, staff or none, raincoat or poncho, religious reasons or not, fast or slow, electronics or no electronics etc.etc. etc.

Oh and by the way, whoever does not agree with me is Wrong.

Hang in there Beatrice. I think you have made some great life choices.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[mikevasey]

Good luck on your Camino, If I had to give any advice it would be watch out for the asphalt, I was super fit when I walked in 2011, ready for any 30km+ days and the hot temps around 40. It was the asphalt that took it out of my shins. So please keep posting, there is people who look on the forum who want to do what you are doing but might might feel they have to do it a 'right'way, only you know what is right for you AND beware of the asphalt on the CP

Buen Camino

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Good luck on your Camino, If I had to give any advice it would be watch out for the asphalt, I was super fit when I walked in 2011, ready for any 30km+ days and the hot temps around 40. It was the asphalt that took it out of my shins. So please keep posting, there is people who look on the forum who want to do what you are doing but might might feel they have to do it a 'right'way, only you know what is right for you AND beware of the asphalt on the CP

Buen Camino

I have seen that there is a lot of asphalt and I know that it could be really hard for the legs (remembering my shins splits from CF). I have walked a lot on asphalt here at home in my camino sandals (but most of the time with a lighter backpack or with just the camera). My practise walks are usually 20-30 km and I know that as soon as I put on the backpack as well the speed will go down and the pressure on the feet will be harder. On asphalt you need to stop more often, take of the shoes and let the blood get back into the feet, looking out for blisters under the foot. Thanks for the warning!

 

[mikevasey]

You know a lot more than I did, I had concentrated on the distance side of things and I was OK with the initial big stages but didn't have a clue what to do when I got tendonitis apart from stop for a couple of days.

Good luck

 

[C clearly]

They take away my experience, my joy for my camino by telling me "you didn't do it the right way".

I think there are very few on this forum who intend to say "you didn't do it the right way." A lot of people on the forum, and on the Camino, are coming from a position of insecurity or uncertainty about their physical ability to walk the camino. Much of the "go slow" advice is meant to give them/us encouragement. Maybe that approach has been overdone at times!

When a poster asks for suggestions or opinions, it isn't "wrong" to offer an opinion either way, although some replies are clearly more relevant and helpful than others. You have made a good point about how we should not self-righteously criticize people for planning faster than average caminos. I expect that your post will cause some reflection among forum members that perhaps they shouldn't have said something the way they did.

I have changed my own perspective on many camino topics after reading different opinions and experiences on this forum. Your strong defense of fast walkers has been an excellent contribution! I hope you stay with us, and continue to present your viewpoint.

 

[Anamya]

Beatrice, the 'fun police' is everywhere.

We slept at the Parador in Leon in our Camino, and a lady on the road joked 'wow, that's fancy for a pilgrim, huh?'. Weeeellll, I worked hard to have the money to pay for a night like that. So, why can't I spend a comfortable night?

Do you know that phrase "my body, my rules"? As long as a person's decisions does not affect others, I'd say "my Camino, my rules" as well.

 

[nidarosa]

@BeatriceKarjalainen : Don't leave. Don't let them tell you that you are wrong or grumpy. If anything you are always very clear in your opinions, clear about what you want to do and how you would like to do it, and you are clear about what you are asking - I get annoyed too, when people answer without actually reading or hearing the question. Maybe it's a Scandinavian thing, maybe some people just can't deal with the simplicity of the straight question. I for one enjoy your company in here and would love to walk with you one day if I could, if I have a good day and feel the energy to power walk - it's exhilarating! You rock. Keep rocking.

Kram, Linda

 

[William Garza]

Beatrice
Let your feet take you where they may..
It will be a wonderful walk no?

 

[Kiwi-family]

Beatrice, I understand your frustration. I actually wrote a post on that other thread this morning and when the computer crashed I lost it and I decided it was a Divine Intervention that I should just shut up! But now you give another opening;-) I think I started something along the lines of "Some people get tired of people asking if 35km a day is too far - I too get tired - of others telling them it's not!"
My husband and I just walked from Porto. We intentionally decided to do a SLOW camino. After a few days we said goodbye to some good friends we had just made because they were going to walk on farther than us. We started after having eaten a pleasant breakfast (that we had purchased the night before), we ambled, we took photos, we looked in a couple of churches, we compared the bark on trees (yes, really!), we watched the fish in a stream, we got to our destination and had a pastry and wrote in journals....and it was not yet noon. So we picked up our packs and walked on. Yes, even when it meant we were walking in 30+ degrees in the mid-afternoon. We met those friends we had said goodbye to in the morning, and spent a wonderful evening with them! We did this for four or five days and became the laughing stock of our wee group as we kept insisting we would walk only 20 or 25km each day. Each afternoon/evening we had wonderful times of camerarderie, sometimes cooking together, sometimes going to mass together, sometimes eating out together. In fact, some days we even walked together as a group - breaking another one of those sometimes spoken rules that camino is supposed to be about walking on your own. We have come home understanding that we actually like to walk 25-35km when our goal is to be going on a long walk. And actually, past experience has shown we are capable of walking much further (100km is the longest I have ever done in one stretch and while I would not recommend doing it day after day, I know I am capable of doing it - and without blisters - if the need ever arises) Like Beatrice, we happily go out for over 20km at home on a regular basis. We know our comfortable walking pace is just under 6km/hour. Yet when we walked with some of those friends we got to know, we pulled it back to what must have been 4km/hr.
I have met people on the Camino Frances who clearly needed to slow down and not walk so far each day - to stop competing with themselves or others - this is not my judgement of them, it is what they told me themselves.

Perhaps it's important to frame our answers and advice to people in terms of "this is my experience, maybe it would be useful to you" or "have you thought about xyz?" rather than the sometimes pretty abrupt and even emotive declarations that are frequently elicited. Of course, that's just IMHO;-)

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.

Oh, Beatrice, you mustn't dream of 'leaving' the forum. You have so much experience to pass on to other, newer members. I've got a nasty suspicion it was my comment which made you think that. Forgive me. If we were to meet, I'd really want to give you a hug ...

 

[Bradypus]

I walked from my home in Wales to Santiago in several stages a lot of years apart. About 2000 km in total. For the UK and French parts I carried a tent and camping gear. So my pack for half the distance was around 13kg plus whatever water I was carrying. Most days I walked 35-45 km. A few rare days were closer to 60km. There are some people on here who would very dogmatically tell me that I was wrong in almost every aspect of my journey. Too fast. Too much gear. Too....... I suspect there are a few self-righteous purists who would argue that I am not a true pilgrim because I did not walk the whole distance from my doorstep to Santiago in one continuous journey. I also cheated by taking a ferry across the English Channel / Manche rather than swimming from England to France or walking on the water as they would no doubt have done themselves I try to console myself by reflecting that although mine was obviously not a genuine pilgrim experience it was a fairly enjoyable second-best. Maybe I'll follow the rules and get it right next time.

 

[nellpilgrim]

Oh, Beatrice, you mustn't dream of 'leaving' the forum……... If we were to meet, I'd really want to give you a hug ...

But Stephen to give Beatrice a hug you'd have to catch up with her first ……. and that might be bit challenging at her land speed

When I was walking the German part of my current pilgrimage I was physically put on a bus by a wonderfully kind (& very strong) older lady who simply couldn't understand that my purpose-to reach a certain destination-could be reconciled with my slug like pace. Therefore out of the kindness of her heart she came up with an efficient solution of her own she put me on a bus and paid the fare. This lady was a big hearted force of nature and meant well. So after being firmly 'woman handled' onto the bus I stayed on it for two stops then got off and sneaked back to my original position as I didn't want to be 'spotted' by my benefactress. The strange thing is that the memory that stays with me is not walking that extra km or two (though I did probably curse a bit at the time) but the happy, satisfied smile on the frau's face as she stood waving me off…..…….

 

[SeaHorse]

my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to

You yourself just answered the question about how fast. For inexperienced untrained people its usually pretty slow and to be good pilgrims they try to force themselves to walk faster/further and get shin splits (not pointing a finger at you, not at all), tendonitis, knee problems, deep blisters, loose toe nails, and heaven knows what that sh!t was that I saw on somebody's legs. Which makes them take days off or slow down and lag behind the schedule that was set with a view of a booked flight. Which in turn makes them take taxis and boost the Spanish economy more than they planned.
As for myself, I never knew what the fast walkers do during their day, your post really and honestly did teach me something new.

Post edited by Moderator.

 

[Houlet]

I too like to start early and walk fast, nothing to do with beating records or other pilgrims, nor is it about a bed race. It's all about my natural walking speed, if I go slower or faster I tire more easily.

But then again understand those who like to leave later, eat breakfast, brunch, lunch, take a siesta, and stop to photograph every church/flower/animal or whatever.

We are all different and it's about tolerance.

 

[Bradypus]

I think the issue is that too many people post replies on questions such as distance, weight and the like with an implicit assumption that their personal experience and preferences are "correct" and therefore others are by definition "wrong". Often with little or no regard to the previous walking experience, age and level of fitness of the OP. My personal preference is to walk relatively long days - 35-40 km on the Camino Frances when travelling light - but I would not be foolish enough to suggest that as the norm for an inexperienced walker. For similar reasons I think it is presumptuous to insist that a fit and experienced walker should restrict their daily stages to a distance far shorter than their ability permits.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

You yourself just answered the question about how fast. For inexperienced untrained people its usually pretty slow and to be good pilgrims they try to force themselves to walk faster/further and get shin splits (not pointing a finger at you, not at all), tendonitis, knee problems, deep blisters, loose toe nails, and heaven knows what that sh!t was that I saw on somebody's legs. Which makes them take days off or slow down and lag behind the schedule that was set with a view of a booked flight. Which in turn makes them take taxis and boost the Spanish economy more than they planned.
As for myself, I never knew what the fast walkers do during their day, your post really and honestly did teach me something new.
Post edited by Moderator.

I was just fed up with the "wrong" comments. My shin splits was due to walking on the left side of the road all the time (as you should) and the small roads in Spain seems to lean more in the roadside than at home in Sweden. My left leg is shorter than my right so the balance in the lower leg got totally off. I had learned that for my second camino and walked a little closer to the middle. Had to look out for cars a little bit more. I got the same problem on a long trail hike in Sweden when I had to walk 10 km on a leaning trail around a mountain. The most important thing is to learn from earlier mistakes (and share so others might avoid them as well).
Post edited by Moderator.

 

[ManyMiles2Go]

I also hope you do not leave, Beatrice. Always love your posts. When I start to read a comment that is going negative, I just skip it and go to the next one. I figure I am not going to learn anything new from a naysayer anyway. You do walk faster than most, but there is nothing wrong with that. I also walk faster than some, and slower than others. I walk at my speed, if people don't like it, they can pass me. If they are too slow for me, I pass them. Please stay, your input is more valuable than you think

On a side note: If everyone would just do the Camino exactly the way I do it, we wouldn't have any problems

 

[John Sikora]

When I was 20 something, it was wrong to stay in hotels/inns in parks rather than backpack. When I was 30 something, it was wrong to spend more than one night in said hotels. When I was 40 something, more than two nights was both ethically and morally abhorrent. After I turned 50, I started to forget what I remembered about right and wrong. Now at 60 something, whatever will get me from point A to point B, have some good conversation, interesting food and drink, and a few good memories is the only way to go. Stick around on the forum, please.

 

[ricitosdeplata]

I recently read that ultralight thru walkers carry what I've seen on this website as the maximum weight one should carry. Laughed to myself that everything is relative. So said to hell with it when I started to feel guilty about my backpack being slightly over 7kg.

Isn't this forum not unlike life where it seems everyone is a critic.

 

[ivar]

I also hope that you stay @BeatriceKarjalainen , the forum has a lot of members with a lot of opinions. Some strange, some normal.. and some very strange. It should not get personal, we have forum rules against that: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/forum-rules.20973/

Please feel free to use the "Report" button if you (or anyone else) feel someone has crossed that line. We, the mods, can not read all posts and many times we don't even know that there is a problem until someone reports it.

An alternative to leaving the forum for good is just to take a break.... Hope to see you around.

God tur og gjør det som er best for deg!
Ivar

 

[Liz Limerick]

'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.

How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.

So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?

*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?

*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?

*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?

*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?

* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?

Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.

I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the difference. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?

Don't go, Beatrice. Your advice is valued.

 

[Dave2525]

For those that speak in absolutes such as you need this, don't need that, your weight should be 10%, etc, just preface their comments with "in my opinion" because that's all that it really is

 

[koknesis]

Dear Bea,
I perfectly understand what you feel. But may I ask you to reconsider? When I last year joined this forum your posts were really inspiring for me. I even red your blog "Beas Tankar, Åsikter & Funderinga" even though my Swedish is a bit rusty. It is nice to see you still remain so active, and I have borrowed some ideas there, for instance I am planing to go next year Fjällräven Classic.
The life is wonderful and a bit cruel, as well as this place is. When having done CF in 22 days I shared some thoughts over here, some people did take this as a kind of heresy. Especially one gentleman, who did not have guts to express his opinion publicly, still approaching trough PM, demonstrating his rage and demanding me to leave ASAP. In fact before his burst I was considering to quietly depart, because I felt that my presence here is not justified any more. His messages changed my mind. I am simply so sorry about the people who have walked the camino, and still have no idea what the tolerance and compassion is. I can just hope that one day their hearths will open. So I decided to stay, because leaving would just strengthen their faith.
This year I will be on Camino again. Not because of myself, I will guide my younger doughter and oldest son.

 

[C clearly]

His messages changed my mind.

Thank you! We need to keep the variety of opinions and approaches on the forum, including yours and @BeatriceKarjalainen 's.

I have only recently become aware of how the PMs are sometimes misused. It must be very disturbing to receive them, but they don't represent most forum members.

 

[ivar]

Pro tip: It is possible to "Ignore" members here:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/account/ignored
... members added here will not be able to contact you and you will not see posts from them.

It is also possible to "Report" PMs!

 

[koknesis]

Pro tip: It is possible to "Ignore" members here:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/account/ignored
... members added here will not be able to contact you and you will not see posts from them.

It is also possible to "Report" PMs!

thanks for the tip Ivar! btw i love your signature "Running the Camino de Santiago Forum"

 

[ricitosdeplata]

Beatrice, this person who pm'd you was totally unfair, to have been telling you to leave. ( Was it leave this forum or leave for or from a camino?). I'm hoping you stay in spite of this incident. And if ever I step over the line just let me know. We all have our blind spots and I wouldn't want to inadvertently step on someone's toes or worse.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Beatrice, this person who pm'd you was totally unfair, to have been telling you to leave. ( Was it leave this forum or leave for or from a camino?). I'm hoping you stay in spite of this incident. And if ever I step over the line just let me know. We all have our blind spots and I wouldn't want to inadvertently step on someone's toes or worse.

That was not me it was @koknesis who got that treatment.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

So no answer to my questions in the OP. Where are all the "you must do it this way" now when I actually ask for their rules ;-)

 

[LauraK]

So no answer to my questions in the OP. Where are all the "you must do it this way" now when I actually ask for their rules ;-)

They probably don't think it refers to them!

 

[ShellsG]

They probably don't think it refers to them!

Haha, exactly !! I was feeling the same way BeatriceKarjalain, after posting (what I thought) was a simple question and basically being told/admonished I wasn't taking the right approach or doing it the right way. I don't mind people giving advice but I would much prefer an answer/suggestion to the actual question I pose as opposed to being told how I am doing something else wrong.
What is sad is that while I am gaining some great information from many of the threads I have also learned who's responses I know are going to be off topic or one of the "this is right, that is wrong" offerings. I haven't done the Camino yet but I do know that I am happy to do it my way, take it at my speed, stop and smell the roses if I want to or race to be first in line if I like.
One of the only people that I know has done the Camino told me it was silly to have to stop in Orrison, that I must simply make it to Roncesville ... so I immediately booked for Orrison ! My Camino, My way ....

 

[simply B]

So no answer to my questions in the OP. Where are all the "you must do it this way" now when I actually ask for their rules ;-)

Well, you asked, BK! I thought I would have some fun with it because, yes, there do seem to be a lot of "rules" out there...(Stick around, btw, you'd be terribly missed otherwise.)

*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do?

No more than 100, if you are walking. Super-heroes like the Flash and Superman are, of course, exempt from the rule.

Is there also a minimum?

Considering that one can take rest days, the logical answer is zero.

What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance?

Then don’t walk further than 100 km. (Duh!)

taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?

Any of the above or all of the above. Just make sure to suffer while you are doing them.

*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at?

10 km/hr. As determined by the study in this link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9143432) I took the max speed for 20 year-old males and calculated from there. Hey, if you cannot take your rules from PubMed on Internet, where are you going to get them? (Again, superheroes are exempt.)

Is there a minimum speed as well?

Once we established that “zero” days are okay, then zero speed is logically acceptable.

Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?

Oh, “with stops”, because otherwise zero speed and zero distance days are not logically possible since they are full stops.

*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?

You must make at least one. The lodging at the end of the day makes the most sense for it. Any extra stops one desires to make are okay as long as one remembers to make the last one as well.


*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?

To be a “proper” stop, one must achieve a state of zero forward progress. Anything else is a “California Roll”, an offense which can get a driver in the States a traffic ticket.

*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?

Within two hours either side of local “dawn” for mornings, the same time span either side of official local “sunset” for evening. Failure to observe these rules will have you walking at night. Choosing to walk at night is okay, I think, but those rules have not been made available to me.


* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?

I have virtually exhausted my knowledge at this time, you will have to wait on the arrival of the more knowledgeable.

What I can tell you is that the number of “Buen Camino” utterances per day has no limit. If you do not see any pilgrims for the day, make up an imaginary friend to be the cheerful recipient. If, after an hour or so, they stop being cheerful at your greeting, it would be good to verify that they are, in fact, "imaginary".


I hope that clears things up!

B

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Well, you asked, BK! I thought I would have some fun with it because, yes, there do seem to be a lot of "rules" out there...(Stick around, btw, you'd be terribly missed otherwise.)

*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do?

No more than 100, if you are walking. Super-heroes like the Flash and Superman are, of course, exempt from the rule.

Is there also a minimum?

Considering that one can take rest days, the logical answer is zero.

What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance?

Then don’t walk further than 100 km. (Duh!)

taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?

Any of the above or all of the above. Just make sure to suffer while you are doing them.

*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at?

10 km/hr. As determined by the study in this link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9143432) I took the max speed for 20 year-old males and calculated from there. Hey, if you cannot take your rules from PubMed on Internet, where are you going to get them? (Again, superheroes are exempt.)

Is there a minimum speed as well?

Once we established that “zero” days are okay, then zero speed is logically acceptable.

Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?

Oh, “with stops”, because otherwise zero speed and zero distance days are not logically possible since they are full stops.

*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?

You must make at least one. The lodging at the end of the day makes the most sense for it. Any extra stops one desires to make are okay as long as one remembers to make the last one as well.


*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?

To be a “proper” stop, one must achieve a state of zero forward progress. Anything else is a “California Roll”, an offense which can get a driver in the States a traffic ticket.

*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?

Within two hours either side of local “dawn” for mornings, the same time span either side of official local “sunset” for evening. Failure to observe these rules will have you walking at night. Choosing to walk at night is okay, I think, but those rules have not been made available to me.


* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?

I have virtually exhausted my knowledge at this time, you will have to wait on the arrival of the more knowledgeable.

What I can tell you is that the number of “Buen Camino” utterances per day has no limit. If you do not see any pilgrims for the day, make up an imaginary friend to be the cheerful recipient. If, after an hour or so, they stop being cheerful at your greeting, it would be good to verify that they are, in fact, "imaginary".


I hope that clears things up!

B

Puh! I can walk 100 km in 16 h but hmm will I squeeze in that between the dawn and sunset rule hmmmm.... back to the calculator I might need to speed up a little ;-)

 

[simply B]

@BeatriceKarjalainen -

I'm thinking you may just be a superhero. Don't forget the exemption!

B

 

[Kiwi-family]

You walked 100km in 16 hours? I take my hat off to you - it took me 27!

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

You walked 100km in 16 hours? I take my hat off to you - it took me 27!

I had minimum on my back just water, camera and rain clothes. And the time was 16 h 8 minutes. It was on roads 50 % gravel and 50 % asphalt and fairly flat. When i did Fjällräven Classic 110 km on the Kings trail it took me 28:48 hours but with 12 kilo on my back and about 6 h stops in total for food and some rest.

 

[vgen5122]

'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.

How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.

So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?

*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?

*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?

*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?

*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?

* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?

Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.

I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the differencer o. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?

Stay. Your opinion is valued. Regarding walking: everyone has to travel at a pace that is good for their own body. There is no right distance or time. A forty something person is probably going to walk a lot further and go a lot faster than a sixty something person. I have said before that I am a slowpoke. On a good day I can do 20km. Usually I walk about 16-17km. Do I think my Camino is less valid than anyone else's? My answer is no. People walk the Camino for various reasons. I am the type of person that like to stop and smell the roses. So my walk will be a lot slower that most and I don't care what other pilgrims think about my pace. The only thing I worry about is getting to the next albergue in time to get a space.
A lot of people have also read books that suggest that they leave their albergue at a certain time and walk a certain distance before the heat of the day hits. The same with this forum. There are just a lot of opinions and suggestions posted. I sincerely hope you decide to stay. Buen Camino.

 

[hecate105]

oh dear, my longest day cycling was 100km....

 

[Kiwi-family]

Hecate105...in the spirit of this thread - well done, you!

And just quietly, Beatrice, you are a machine!! Also, I've been thinking - if you are not a far or fast walker maybe you cannot imagine that it could be a positive experience because you project your own experience onto the situation. Perhaps what *you* have to offer this community is that voice that says "for some of us, 35km a day can make a wonderful camino" - and to be a living example of the fact. Maybe we could have a personal mission to change the meaning of "make sure you smell the roses" from "this means you must walk no further than 25km in a day" to "discover what it means for you to be able to smell the roses - if you want to". I get hay fever so I actually prefer not to;-)

 

[dougfitz]

Puh! I can walk 100 km in 16 h but hmm will I squeeze in that between the dawn and sunset rule hmmmm.... back to the calculator I might need to speed up a little ;-)

You could do it more slowly on one of the northern pilgrimage routes! I still want to walk the St Olavsleden, but I think I will be thinking about doing it over a month or so rather than doing it in a week.

I started to do some competitive walking quite late in life, and have some appreciation of the effort involved in walking ultra-marathon distances day after day. I think your walking performances are a credit, and I look forward to you streaming past me on some future pilgrimage.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I have met people who do 50km a day without a second thought. But they don't do it for the same reasns I do. And their reasons are just as valid as mine. They probably think I am not pushing myself enough to learn about myself, my limits.

A Camino as a spiritual, once in a lifetime experience may be better suited to a slower pace, but for the repeat offenders, there may be ither ways to reach that spirituality, that special experience, or the simple weight oss challenge.

While I irk when I read that suburban Mrs Smith only has X numbers of days "to do thé Camino" I do believe that for some other people 20-25K is just not in their nature.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Hecate105...in the spirit of this thread - well done, you!

And just quietly, Beatrice, you are a machine!! Also, I've been thinking - if you are not a far or fast walker maybe you cannot imagine that it could be a positive experience because you project your own experience onto the situation. Perhaps what *you* have to offer this community is that voice that says "for some of us, 35km a day can make a wonderful camino" - and to be a living example of the fact. Maybe we could have a personal mission to change the meaning of "make sure you smell the roses" from "this means you must walk no further than 25km in a day" to "discover what it means for you to be able to smell the roses - if you want to". I get hay fever so I actually prefer not to;-)

I usually don't smell the roses either but I can lay down on my knees in gravel for 30 minutes to get the light and focus (yes I'm carrying a heavy camera and use manual settings, please don't tell the weight police or the you-have-to-use-a-point-and-shoot-police) right when photographing a dead plant. That is the reason to why I tend to "walk" for 10-12 h.

There are so many interesting objects to practise photography on and to give me the pleasure to be able to relive the trip once more. I don't need to look at the ground when walking, my feet can handle that part and my eyes can be used for see the small things. A spiders web, a bug, a snail, a lovely roof and the lovely pattern on the ground.

I see all this things even thou, when my feet are moving , I walk fast. Long distances just mean that I can see more in one day. Of course walking slow means that I might be able to look at them for a longer period at time when on the move. But I stop all the time for the "little things". I observe them, put them in the right perspective, the right light, the right mood. I don't take a point and shoot photo to be able to continue faster and having the memory recorded in a "will do photo". Walking fast mean that I can take my time to smell the roses and taking photos or talking to a local without feeling the stress of missing to be first in line at the albergue. Walking far each day is just because I am a machine who can just walk walk and walk and that is why my brain relaxes from the stress at work, from home and stops thinking of all the "must" in life, when I walk it is just me and the road (and all the interesting things to see around the next corner or road bend).

I wish sometimes that I had written my CF blog in English, that might have helped to get some people to understand that walking fast doesn't have to be the same as "rushing by and missing everything". Well I did miss some churches, I missed some festivals as I passed through the town to early in the morning but so did the slow walkers who had fallen 1 days behind me etc etc... Those pilgrims might have missed the lovely old man that gave my plums instead.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

I have met people who do 50km a day without a second thought. But they don't do it for the same reasns I do. And their reasons are just as valid as mine. They probably think I am not pushing myself enough to learn about myself, my limits.

A Camino as a spiritual, once in a lifetime experience may be better suited to a slower pace, but for the repeat offenders, there may be ither ways to reach that spirituality, that special experience, or the simple weight oss challenge.

While I irk when I read that suburban Mrs Smith only has X numbers of days "to do thé Camino" I do believe that for some other people 20-25K is just not in their nature.

So what is your different reasons? Why can't it be the same?

But what is "a slower pace". Slower than you use to walk? Shorter than you use to walk? If you normally run at home it could feel veeeery slow to walk 10 k in over 60 minutes. If you normally power walk at home 20 km i 4 hours can feel like for ever on the camino. So does slow mean slower than others, never pass another person. Can slow mean the state when your thoughts stops and you can be in the moment, let the body do it's work and set the mind free? For some there is actually a level where you loose the balance (for me it is under 4.5 km/h on flat ground) or starting to get pain because taking for instance shorter steps or "hanging" on each step for a longer time than usually stresses the muscles and joints, just as much as if someone who is used to walk slowly starts to run or power walk. For me the spiritual part is up in my head, not in my feet.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

You could do it more slowly on one of the northern pilgrimage routes! I still want to walk the St Olavsleden, but I think I will be thinking about doing it over a month or so rather than doing it in a week.

I started to do some competitive walking quite late in life, and have some appreciation of the effort involved in walking ultra-marathon distances day after day. I think your walking performances are a credit, and I look forward to you streaming past me on some future pilgrimage.

St:Olaf Way is on my to-do-list. I'm actually right now just a few km away from the Swedish starting point in Selånger. My mother in law is living in the priest house in Hässjö and people from the parish here is involved in the St:Olaf Way. They talk about it a lot.

 

[nidarosa]

Thank you, @BeatriceKarjalainen for those posts where you explain it so beautifully. You only miss out on the camino experience when you are not paying attention or trying to compete or measure up to something, and that's not what you do. Strangely when I walk on my own locally - everything here is flat as a pancake - I prefer to power walk on my own. I like letting the legs do their thing and giving the head some me time ... or listen to an audio book. I sit at a desk for a living so walking while 'reading' is great! The first time I walked the Camino Frances I walked really short stages/days, about 15 kms, as slow as a snail and thoroughly enjoyed it and the company I was in. When I walked the last third of it again two years later, in different company, I happily power walked 25 kms a day with longer stops. For my honeymoon camino we walked relatively fast again but started late and stopped frequently. I have no idea what will suit me next time. I have no intention of telling anyone what the right or wrong way to walk the camino is. Apart from liars: I once met a man who swore he walked 50 kms a day and had to 'carb up' every evening, but somehow he was never spotted on the road and tended to stay at the same places as us slow plodders ... Surely being true to yourself and your camino is the only real rule?

 

[Anna Machial]

Researching the Camino I came across a book called 'Walk Your Own Walk'. I didn't read the book but the phrase stuck with me and opinions on this forum have never swayed me from it. But when we reached Oviedo to start the Primitivo we did meet pilgrims that expressed their opinion that the Primitivo would be too difficult for me. That threw me momentarily, but then I reminded myself that I had come to 'walk my own walk'. To reach Santiago in the 13 days I had I found I could not walk every step of the way, but what I did was an experience of a life time anyway. Much of my planning was based on this website and, BeatriceK., I read your posts as well as the posts of the 'plodders.' They were all beneficial.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

So what is your different reasons? Why can't it be the same?

But what is "a slower pace". Slower than you use to walk? Shorter than you use to walk? If you normally run at home it could feel veeeery slow to walk 10 k in over 60 minutes. If you normally power walk at home 20 km i 4 hours can feel like for ever on the camino. So does slow mean slower than others, never pass another person. Can slow mean the state when your thoughts stops and you can be in the moment, let the body do it's work and set the mind free? For some there is actually a level where you loose the balance (for me it is under 4.5 km/h on flat ground) or starting to get pain because taking for instance shorter steps or "hanging" on each step for a longer time than usually stresses the muscles and joints, just as much as if someone who is used to walk slowly starts to run or power walk. For me the spiritual part is up in my head, not in my feet.

Euh??? I'm you're side!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Researching the Camino I came across a book called 'Walk Your Own Walk'. I didn't read the book but the phrase stuck with me and opinions on this forum have never swayed me from it. But when we reached Oviedo to start the Primitivo we did meet pilgrims that expressed their opinion that the Primitivo would be too difficult for me. That threw me momentarily, but then I reminded myself that I had come to 'walk my own walk'. To reach Santiago in the 13 days I had I found I could not walk every step of the way, but what I did was an experience of a life time anyway. Much of my planning was based on this website and, BeatriceK., I read your posts as well as the posts of the 'plodders.' They were all beneficial.

The Primitiv being too difficult for anyone is either an urban legend or, as I see it, a lie from Camino Snobs who want to toot their own horns by limitng the number of people from doing what they will do and brag about. Perhaps ypu used to have to walk 99km between stays, but not these days.

Walking del Norte you got the impression it was only for the ultra fit. What a load of it.!

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Euh??? I'm you're side!

I was curious about the statement that the 50k people isn't doing it for the same reason as you do it. How do you know, why should they think that you are not pushing your self? Have they told you that the reason why they do 50 k is to test and push their limits? Where is the limit for not pushing your self? Can the pushing behind comfort limits be a spiritual thing it self? I met a man that walked 40 k a day, way over his comfort zone, he struggled and he did it for religious reasons, he wanted to feel the pain, the pain Jesus might had carrying the cross, the people when they walked through Egypt and he dedicated that pain to a loved one he had lost or to St. James. That was his camino and I think that was quite spiritual for him. We walked together here and there, his days were often a couple of hours longer than mine.

The statement that it might be better to do it slowly got me to ask what is slow, what do you mean by that. Just questions to better understand your answer. But there were also some words that i could't understand in your text/typos that might have made me misunderstand your text as well.

But when I read it I see a text saying a spiritual walk should probably be slow. And there it is the nagging feeling of "you are probably not doing it right" again as you continue with saying that the others are "repeat offenders" (offenders of what?)? Like "it is nothing wrong with it but it is not right". But as I said above it might just be the use of words and the fact that English isn't my first language that makes me read your text with an other tone that you intended. But I'm still curious of the answers of my questions in my first reply.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Researching the Camino I came across a book called 'Walk Your Own Walk'. I didn't read the book but the phrase stuck with me and opinions on this forum have never swayed me from it. But when we reached Oviedo to start the Primitivo we did meet pilgrims that expressed their opinion that the Primitivo would be too difficult for me. That threw me momentarily, but then I reminded myself that I had come to 'walk my own walk'. To reach Santiago in the 13 days I had I found I could not walk every step of the way, but what I did was an experience of a life time anyway. Much of my planning was based on this website and, BeatriceK., I read your posts as well as the posts of the 'plodders.' They were all beneficial.

Of course I can see that my experience can be beneficial but what I feel that some people always have to point out that it is wrong. What if I should start to write answers to every one doing it slower than me and talk about the booooring hours in small hamlet with nothing to do from noon to bed time or the horror of having to pass hords of snail-walkers (with clicking sticks) and so on... that would be equivalent to the types of answers you get about doing it "fast". I think people would get quite upset. But I know that others love those quiet hours and walking in a huge group with others and that is how they want to do it but just don't tell me that I have to do it as well. I hate to pass people on the camino as I can feel their eyes in my back, I can here the comments about "this is not a race" behind me (and yes I have had my share of those on the camino). And it would be enough to have it there. I thought we could skip that kind of comments in the forum.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Oh, Beatrice, you mustn't dream of 'leaving' the forum. You have so much experience to pass on to other, newer members. I've got a nasty suspicion it was my comment which made you think that. Forgive me. If we were to meet, I'd really want to give you a hug ...

Yes yours was one of them so give my questions a go. So we know how to do it the "proper way".

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

Yes yours was one of them so give my questions a go. So we know how to do it the "proper way".

Beatrice - there is no "proper" way.
We each do it at our own pace, at a speed that suits us best, and a distance with which we are comfortable.
Long may it be so!
Buen camino - fast or slow

 

[William Garza]

I usually don't smell the roses either but I can lay down on my knees in gravel for 30 minutes to get the light and focus (yes I'm carrying a heavy camera and use manual settings, please don't tell the weight police or the you-have-to-use-a-point-and-shoot-police) right when photographing a dead plant. That is the reason to why I tend to "walk" for 10-12 h.

There are so many interesting objects to practise photography on and to give me the pleasure to be able to relive the trip once more. I don't need to look at the ground when walking, my feet can handle that part and my eyes can be used for see the small things. A spiders web, a bug, a snail, a lovely roof and the lovely pattern on the ground.

I see all this things even thou, when my feet are moving , I walk fast. Long distances just mean that I can see more in one day. Of course walking slow means that I might be able to look at them for a longer period at time when on the move. But I stop all the time for the "little things". I observe them, put them in the right perspective, the right light, the right mood. I don't take a point and shoot photo to be able to be able to continue faster and having the memory recorded i a "will do photo" Walking fast mean that I can take my time to smell the roses and taking photos or talking to a local without feeling the stress of missing to be first in line at the albergue. Walking far each day is just because I am a machine who can just walk walk and walk and that is why my brain relaxes from the stress at work, from home and stops thinking of all the "must" in life, when I walk it is just me and the road (and all the interesting things to see around the next corner or road bend).

I wish sometimes that I had written my CF blog in English, that might have helped to get some people to understand that walking fast doesn't have to be the same as "rushing by and missing everything". Well I did miss some churches, I missed some festivals as I passed through the town to early in the morning but so did the slow walkers who had fallen 1 days behind me etc etc...

Lovely Photos
Thank you for showing what the world looks like through your eyes!
I shoot manual only,its a good thing
I make everybody mad when we walk..
I smell all the roses,because walking is a trial.
When I was younger and not ..less abled,.there was a joy in just stretching out the pins and just going,
Be Blessed

 

[jmcarp]

I don't recall seeing you or your camera while I was walking, but that fourth photo was a candid shot of me doing the Camino .

My wife and I were passed by several hundred, perhaps thousands of other pilgrims. We could count the number we passed ourselves on the fingers of our hands -- and most of them were sitting down resting on a bench or under a tree.

 

[wayfarer]

I don't recall seeing you or your camera while I was walking, but that fourth photo was a candid shot of me doing the Camino .
My wife and I were passed by several hundred, perhaps thousands of other pilgrims. We could count the number we passed ourselves on the fingers of our hands -- and most of them were sitting down resting on a bench or under a tree.

What pack are you wearing Jim.

 

[jmcarp]

What pack are you wearing Jim.

30 microlitre Osprey Escargot....

 

[Icacos]

Beatrice, I just see now that you were on the Camino Francés in 2013. May I ask when were you there? We were passed by a lady on the meseta who was walking so fast we wondered if we were going in reverse. She left us in her dust. I wonder if it was you.

 

[Robo]

There is no 'proper' way on the Camino or in life........ though some think there is and feel it their 'mission' to inform and educate others Isn't that irritating

Don't take life or other people too seriously. When they say 'Zag' just 'Zig', why follow the Herd?

Those who hurt us with their words and opinions rarely mean to do so........perhaps they are just not very articulate


I was showing my wife at breakfast this morning, the latest edits from some of my Camino videos.......... Now she wants me to take her next year

But....

She only wants to walk the last 100 kms, and she wants to do it as a 'tourigrino' with just a day pack. It will be part of a larger 'trip' to see some parts of Europe.

I started thinking we might do a couple of short days earlier along the CF, just so that she wouldn't miss out on some of the amazing sights and scenery. Perhaps the walk out of Granon that I enjoyed so much? Or the Cruz de Ferro?

Then I thought..........what the heck. Keep it simple. We'll just do the last 100. At whatever pace she wants. And if she enjoys that, we can always come back for more.

This will be her Camino..........not mine. My joy will be being with her.........and seeing hers

 

[Kanga]

I've been an offender in telling people what to do, instead of just answering the questions asked. It comes from leaping to conclusions without having all the information, something that does happen on a forum like this. Now I try to frame my answers as "this was my experience", rather than being didactic.

The Proper Way to Do The Camino? Well, my way, of course!

But seriously, I think it is:

(1) Wearing clothes (although I'm willing to listen to argument on this point)
(2) With an open mind and heart
(3) Conscious of my own needs and the needs of those around me
(4) Respecting the culture of others
(5) Abiding by the law
(6) Not leaving any trace except good memories.

 

[Griffin57]

Hi Beatrice, another vote here for you staying on the forum! I always read your posts with great interest even though I may not have replied before, you have lots of experience to share and your photos are just beautiful!

I decided to give myself a signature based on what you have been going through (see below) I believe on the Appalachian trail the saying is 'hike your own hike'.
Your camino is YOURS alone and nobody else's business unless you specifically request comments.
Buen camino
Sarah

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Beatrice, I just see now that you were on the Camino Francés in 2013. May I ask when were you there? We were passed by a lady on the meseta who was walking so fast we wondered if we were going in reverse. She left us in her dust. I wonder if it was you.

Started in August 15 in SJPdP and was in SdC 23 days later. I came to the meseta August 22 according to my blog. Do you remember where? I was wearing a beige Macabi skirt. If in the morning long if later in the day hooked up in the sides.

https://translate.google.se/transla...-etapp-10-rabe-de-las.html&edit-text=&act=url

 

[Coleen Clark]

I had minimum on my back just water, camera and rain clothes. And the time was 16 h 8 minutes. It was on roads 50 % gravel and 50 % asphalt and fairly flat. When i did Fjällräven Classic 110 km on the Kings trail it took me 28:48 hours but with 12 kilo on my back and about 6 h stops in total for food and some rest.

I can walk 16km in 100 hours. With rest stops, of course.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

I can walk 16km in 100 hours. With rest stops, of course.

Loooong rest stops.

 

[Coleen Clark]

Beatrice, take it from a Nana, it is Wonderful that we are so diverse! If everyone was the same, who would sing baritone in the choir? Who would wear all those plus size floral pattern leggings? Our lively discussions would turn into Yes Men Sessions, Taylor Swift would be our next president, and we would *march* the Camino. Hup two three four.
Like all the other friends on the forum, I agree with the idea of the Camino being your walk, your way. I just hope I can breath thru your dust cloud as you pass me, and I wish you Buen Camino!

 

[Phillypilgrim]

Hi Beatrice. I hope you stay. I love your photos. I know what you mean.
I would never share how I often listen to "nonspiritual" music while I walk, as I don't want to hear the feedback.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Hi Beatrice. I hope you stay. I love your photos. I know what you mean.
I would never share how I often listen to "nonspiritual" music while I walk, as I don't want to hear the feedback.

It is a shame that you need to think of what to write here regarding things like that.

 

[Icacos]

Started in August 15 in SJPdP and was in SdC 23 days later. I came to the meseta August 22 according to my blog. Do you remember where? I was wearing a beige Macabi skirt. If in the morning long if later in the day hooked up in the sides.

https://translate.google.se/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://beastankar.blogspot.se/2013/08/camino2013-dag-10-etapp-10-rabe-de-las.html&edit-text=&act=url

Aaaw, Beatrice, it wasn't you who blew by us on the meseta; we were there in late April. That's too bad, as it would have been fun to claim that I'd had a brief encounter with Camino royalty! The meseta pictures in your blog are fabulous, and evoke wonderful memories for me. I agree with the others - please don't leave.

 

[uniQ]

I also find it amusing and ironic how many on here 'expect' others to conform to their idea of how a camino should be walked.

I just returned from my 3rd Camino, which was also the longest distance and the shortest time walked (by a wide margin). Including multiple 70km days including walking Burgos to Leon in 3 days. I had a wonderful time

Interestingly to begin with I was a bit apprehensive when I met new people each day to tell them just how far I was walking because I was worried after reading similar comments on here that people would judge or berate one for doing so but actually 99% of the people I met seemed genuinely interested, surprised and encouraging.

Buen Camino

 

[C clearly]

I would never share how I often listen to "nonspiritual" music while I walk, as I don't want to hear the feedback.

There have been many enjoyable posts on music, of all types, that people like to listen to on the camino.

It is a shame that you need to think of what to write here regarding things like that.

We should think about everything we write about on the internet for the world to read.

99% of the people I met seemed genuinely interested, surprised and encouraging.

I expect that is true here as well. The direct blunt anonymous nature of the internet makes communication different. We need to understand it is different.

Sometimes when everyone is talking as if this forum is, in essence, an unkind and narrowminded place, I begin to feel guilt by association! Since I enjoy the forum so much, if it is such a nasty place, does that mean I am "one of them"?

On the forum I have learned to appreciate members who I didn't much like at first. Same as real life. I've come to realize that the world of pilgrims includes early-risers late-risers, runners, dog lovers, music fans, constant talkers, bag rustlers and even people who might occasionally and carelessly say thoughtless things on the forum. Challenge them or ignore them, but don't let them ruin the experience.

 

[Kiwi-family]

Challenge them (or ignore them) - it seems this is precisely what Beatrice has done. Of course the ensuing thread which grows longer by the day, can then add to the discomfort levels for others as it is not entirely positive (not that it has been at all rude or disrespectful).
Some people enjoy robust discussion, others are threatened by it. Some are very direct, some are not. Welcome to an intergenerational multi-cultural community!!

 

[Mycamino Maya]

'I'm, seriously thinking of leaving this community. I'm so tired of all comments about "to fast", "not doing it the right way", "what's the point if rushing by", "you can't see anything" etc etc etc. I think I have seen it all by now, latest in the thread about doing Porto->Santiago in 7 days someone asks if it is doable and there they are the speed police.

How everyone wants to do their camino can't be any others business. I can't really see why people even bother to tell others how fast/long to walk. How short a day and what speed is "good enough"? If I'm not interested in stopping at every café on the road and not peeping into every other church, what's the harm? Do I see or experience so much less if I walk 40 km i 8-12 hours than if I do half that stretch in in the same time or slower and stop at bars, cafés, churches, turist attractions etc? What do a "real" pilgrim have to do? Can we establish that so we "untrue pilgrims" know when we do it wrong and don't tell you about it.

So:
*how many kilometer per day are you allowed to do? Is there also a minimum? What if the albergues are further apart than the maximum distance? taxi back and forth? Sleeping under a tree? Or is it just average that counts so you have to do a shorter stretch to compensate?

*what is the maximum speed a pilgrim is allowed to walk at? Is there a minimum speed as well? Is the speed calculated with or without the stops?

*how many stops per day does a real pilgrim have to make? Is there a maximum as well?

*how long should a stop be to be considered as a "proper" stop?

*what time should a pilgrim start in the morning and stop in the evening?

* is there any other rules we might need to know of regarding the walking? Number of buen camino said during a day to fellow pigrims? Something else?

Do you want to know a funny thing, when I participate in ultra marathons I walk instead of run and people in that community always asks me "why don't you run", "why doing it so slow?" And I say the same thing as here. I enjoy walking far and in a tempo that suits my body and I have time to reflect about the surroundings and photograph. Running is not for me (a bad knee), short distances are not form me (the days are so short then) and neither is walking slow as my body starts to hurt when I force it into a movement pattern it isn't used to.

I just came in from a walk here at home, I went out to do a normal afternoon walk in the lovely weather. I came home after 3 hours and 25 minutes and 22.5 km walking. I took 12 photos and I examined an abandoned house on the way, I stopped to consult my map which way to go at some points. This is how I walk almost every day. Why on earth do I have to walk another way on the camino. What's the difference. What is so special with those stretches that needs to be taken in in such a slow speed? What's the difference to the new and unexplored routes I walk in my own surroundings? No one ever complains about the walks/hikes people do at home so why on the camino?

Hello Beatrice, just do not read what does not interest you. That is what I do. Maybe you just need to break free for awhile from the forum but if you have good info I am sure people would appreciate what you write or they would skip through it. Have a nice Saturday. Maya

 

[FelixBC]

Beatrice, thanks so much for your detailed descriptions of what it's like to walk longer distances. I max out at about 25, maybe 30km a day, and when I see stronger, faster people stride smoothly past me I wonder, how? what's that like? Now I know more.

I get kind of hung up on not feeling good (fast, strong, durable) enough, even though I know the translation of "everyone does their own camino" in 3 different languages. I learnt them because we all sat at dinner and said that, after comparing notes on mileage/speed. A conversation I started to avoid. But, really, we do each do our own camino. Thanks for sharing yours.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Hello Beatrice, just do not read what does not interest you. That is what I do. Maybe you just need to break free for awhile from the forum but if you have good info I am sure people would appreciate what you write or they would skip through it. Have a nice Saturday. Maya

I wrote my post because I was tired of ignoring comments like that. They do disturb me. If everyone is ignoring things that bothers them and never speak out it will be even more accepted. I think that leaving the forum is an extreme form of ignoring but at least it maybe got some people to read my post and arguments.

It isn't always comments to me it is more often than seldom a question about speed and length get's at least one answer that says "it is not a race" or "you can't experience anything by rushing though the camino". The answers that got me to write this post is this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323519 and this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323527 and this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323655 (all in the same thread) for me they were really typical examples of saying "hey you are not doing it right if you walk 35 k/day". It says that every one walking long distances will not experience the real stuff. My later posts here tries to show that walking long distances doesn't mean that you run through the camino without getting memories, see stuff and enjoy life.

But every time I see a comment like that (I can hardly ignore them before I have read them If I don't start to block people) I get so tired and sad as it says to me that my caminos are wrong and that I should shut up and not give advice that encourage doing it the wrong way. I stopped writing here for several months after such comments a couple of month ago. I stopped reading as well for a while but then I booked my next camino as came back to seek advice. But I haven't published my planned stages even thou I would love comments on it like "you should really stop in X instead of Y because the albergue Z is so good" or "no do't stop there, there is no good food there" or "take the detour over X to see the lovely ruins" because I know that if I post a plan that is CP with average stages 36 km or 40 km I will get the answers saying, that is way to fast, you will miss everything, it is not a race, why not start i Porto instead as you only have so few days to do it bla bla bla bla. Of course I'll get lovely answers like this: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323731 and they can somewhat compensate the bad feeling from the other posts.

 

[robertt]

I start after midday in Spain, bit earlier in France, and waddle. Cool weather only, plenty of double and triple rest days. No weight loss at all (gracias churros). Prefer private accommodation, easier to lie in and loaf. If anyone tells me I'm just a tourist I agree. They are right - or mostly right.

I seldom get lectured because anybody inclined to lecture is gone in the early morning shift. When I do a bit of fast and long stuff, it's a pleasant change rather than a chore, and a perfect excuse for a rest day.

Most of the athletic/achieving people are perfectly tolerant of my type, and may even find my type a pleasant change for them. Really, they are a good bunch, those striders. I wave them through often.

Lastly - and this is personal - I do not think of the Camino as an international line. I consider myself as a guest of Auvergnats, Gascons, Basques, Castilians, Bercianos, Galicians, Portuguese etc. The line is not for me, and nobody is a thoroughfare. Not even the industrial estate at O Porrino. (Australian gum trees in the hills, pretty quarry stone and the world's biggest parking lot for Citroens. What's not to like about O Porrino?)

Love those pics, Bea. Take a whole studio with you next time.

Ultreia

Rob

 

[Coleen Clark]

I wrote my post because I was tired of ignoring comments like that. They do disturb me. If everyone is ignoring things that bothers them and never speak out it will be even more accepted. I think that leaving the forum is an extreme form of ignoring but at least it maybe got some people to read my post and arguments.

It isn't always comments to me it is more often than seldom a question about speed and length get's at least one answer that says "it is not a race" or "you can't experience anything by rushing though the camino". The answers that got me to write this post is this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323519 and this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323527 and this one: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323655 (all in the same thread) for me they were really typical examples of saying "hey you are not doing it right if you walk 35 k/day". It says that every one walking long distances will not experience the real stuff. My later posts here tries to show that walking long distances doesn't mean that you run through the camino without getting memories, see stuff and enjoy life.

But every time I see a comment like that (I can hardly ignore them before I have read them If I don't start to block people) I get so tired and sad as it says to me that my caminos are wrong and that I should shut up and not give advice that encourage doing it the wrong way. I stopped writing here for several months after such comments a couple of month ago. I stopped reading as well for a while but then I booked my next camino as came back to seek advice. But I haven't published my planned stages even thou I would love comments on it like "you should really stop in X instead of Y because the albergue Z is so good" or "no do't stop there, there is no good food there" or "take the detour over X to see the lovely ruins" because I know that if I post a plan that is CP with average stages 36 km or 40 km I will get the answers saying, that is way to fast, you will miss everything, it is not a race, why not start i Porto instead as you only have so few days to do it bla bla bla bla. Of course I'll get lovely answers like this: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/porto-to-santiago-in-7-days.35095/#post-323731 and they can somewhat compensate the bad feeling from the other posts.

Wow. Planned Stages. Beatrice, I sometimes feel unprepared because I have not planned enough. I read and google and search the forum, but in the end every time I make plans, God laughs.
I have noticed, like you, most people on the forum have planned their Camino. I really should. I started...I prepaid and reserved Orrison August 4th because that first day will be hard on me. But the next planned day of my itinerary is October 26 when I fly home.
My 59 years on earth have been a series of plans that failed. So for me, I need to allow the Camino to unfold day by day, hour by hour, and do my best. I envy you and those who plan and follow thru. My lesson is letting go and letting God, and I hope I am strong enough to learn it.

 

[Robo]

Some forum members like to express their experiences, views and opinions rather more strongly than others. Which is not always appropriate. Others keep them to themselves. Which is also kind of sad.

I have yet to meet anyone on here who was outright nasty or belligerent though. Which makes this a really special place.

I have probably expressed views quite firmly myself, now that I am an instant expert having walked one Camino

But I think when people do that, it's often more from a sense of wanting to help than to 'bully'. Perhaps they experienced a wonderful Camino doing it 'their' way and want others to experience the same. I suspect a lot of the stronger comments and feedback are coming from that feeling. A 'fear' almost, that someone doing their Camino in a radically different way, will somehow 'miss out'.

But here's the 'kicker'. We only know what we know......... Maybe we are victims of our own Caminos. Locked into a pattern. Perhaps 'other' ways lead to even more fantastic experiences?

One of my great Camino learnings. Don't judge others........

From one of the slowest walkers, to one of the fastest. There are times I just wanted the miles to melt beneath my feet, but I physically couldn't walk faster

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Love those pics, Bea. Take a whole studio with you next time.

I prefer to carry quite light backpack

Wow. Planned Stages. Beatrice, I sometimes feel unprepared because I have not planned enough. I read and google and search the forum, but in the end every time I make plans, God laughs.
I have noticed, like you, most people on the forum have planned their Camino. I really should. I started...I prepaid and reserved Orrison August 4th because that first day will be hard on me. But the next planned day of my itinerary is October 26 when I fly home.
My 59 years on earth have been a series of plans that failed. So for me, I need to allow the Camino to unfold day by day, hour by hour, and do my best. I envy you and those who plan and follow thru. My lesson is letting go and letting God, and I hope I am strong enough to learn it.

He He
Well I have a rough plan each time and I never follow it This time I don't really need a plan either as I haven't booked a flight home but I do have a date when I have to be back at work.

When I'm there I usually walk as far or short my legs wants to that day. Normally it tends to be longer than planned at home (CF 23 days instead of 28, San Salvador+Primitivo 11 days instead of 14). With a plan I at least have something to relate to, where I need to be at a given day to make it to the end before my flight leaves. If fallen behind I need to do some longer stretches. But I also like to plan for some stops where there is something I really want to visit. But the plan is not an itinerary.

I think I'm a little bit to much a control freak just to start walking and hoping that I'll get to the end in time. And the planning even if I don't follow it is a fun preparation.

 

[C clearly]

Maybe it would be a good idea for @ivar to start a forum section (like we have different ones for Equipment Questions, Camino Frances, etc.) for "Fast walkers, long stages."

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Maybe it would be a good idea for @ivar to start a forum section (like we have different ones for Equipment Questions, Camino Frances, etc.) for "Fast walkers, long stages."

Why? Seems very strange to separate it and who shall decide when it is fast or long enough so you have to write there instead. Then someone really have to answer my questions in the OP.

 

[Kiwi-family]

Then there will be the Snail Forum for the slowpokes. At least Beatrice has a nice photo to gift them;-) (I'm joking....I think this thread has been great at showing up it's actually OK to walk far or fast or both or neither, and perhaps we will refer to back to it occasionally)

 

[wayfarer]

I think the questions have been well and truly answered at this stage, everyone walks their own Camino, everyone gives advice on what works/has worked for them, that is what a forum is about. Give advice and if someone disagrees with that either argue (nicely) the point or ignore. There are as many opinions here as there are members.

 

[trevorcc]

I usually don't smell the roses either but I can lay down on my knees in gravel for 30 minutes to get the light and focus (yes I'm carrying a heavy camera and use manual settings, please don't tell the weight police or the you-have-to-use-a-point-and-shoot-police) right when photographing a dead plant. That is the reason to why I tend to "walk" for 10-12 h.

There are so many interesting objects to practise photography on and to give me the pleasure to be able to relive the trip once more. I don't need to look at the ground when walking, my feet can handle that part and my eyes can be used for see the small things. A spiders web, a bug, a snail, a lovely roof and the lovely pattern on the ground.

I see all this things even thou, when my feet are moving , I walk fast. Long distances just mean that I can see more in one day. Of course walking slow means that I might be able to look at them for a longer period at time when on the move. But I stop all the time for the "little things". I observe them, put them in the right perspective, the right light, the right mood. I don't take a point and shoot photo to be able to continue faster and having the memory recorded in a "will do photo". Walking fast mean that I can take my time to smell the roses and taking photos or talking to a local without feeling the stress of missing to be first in line at the albergue. Walking far each day is just because I am a machine who can just walk walk and walk and that is why my brain relaxes from the stress at work, from home and stops thinking of all the "must" in life, when I walk it is just me and the road (and all the interesting things to see around the next corner or road bend).

I wish sometimes that I had written my CF blog in English, that might have helped to get some people to understand that walking fast doesn't have to be the same as "rushing by and missing everything". Well I did miss some churches, I missed some festivals as I passed through the town to early in the morning but so did the slow walkers who had fallen 1 days behind me etc etc... Those pilgrims might have missed the lovely old man that gave my plums instead.

Fourth photo down looks like the snail that passed me on the Camino......

 

[dougfitz]

I wonder how much our attitude to what might be a long stage or a fast walk is influenced by guides like Brierley's that break the walk into stages that are achievable in a day.

Recently I downloaded a copy of Raimond Roos' yellow guide, and I took Alison Raju's guide to St Olavs Way with me when I walked that pilgrimage. They both describe the path from town to town or place to place, rather than by daily stages. This gives far less emphasis to any one place as being a good place to stay, or a particular distance being a good distance to achieve.

 

[LauraK]

Dougfitz: I agree with you. On my first camino years ago I only carried a small paper guide from the CSJ. It had no maps and no stages just a town by town listing of albergues and bars. Very basic. I just followed the arrows and stopped when I felt I needed to, or if I liked the feel of a village or because fellow pilgrims called out to me and invited me to stay with them. My distances varied a lot - from 16 to 32 km. I was on my own schedule and felt no pressure to get anywhere. I knew I had plenty of time before I had to fly home. On my next camino I found that "great guide" with the pretty maps I saw everyone carrying on my first camino...sure enough I ended up following almost all the Brierly stages. I didn't feel pressured but I think there is a subconscious feeling that the stage is average and you should be able to do it. In some ways that first camino was a walk in faith...I did only minimal planning for the next day and just followed the arrows. I didn't know if I would be climbing up a hill or walking next to a highway. No expectations but to look for the arrows and trust they would take me where I needed to go. I think we now often over analyze and plan all the stages when maybe we should just "stay in the now" and see what unfolds...

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

I wonder how much our attitude to what might be a long stage or a fast walk is influenced by guides like Brierley's that break the walk into stages that are achievable in a day.

Recently I downloaded a copy of Raimond Roos' yellow guide, and I took Alison Raju's guide to St Olavs Way with me when I walked that pilgrimage. They both describe the path from town to town or place to place, rather than by daily stages. This gives far less emphasis to any one place as being a good place to stay, or a particular distance being a good distance to achieve.

I was discussing the same thing at home yesterday. I can also se that Brierley's CP guide have longer stages than most of the CF stages and for some reason that seams to be ok there but if you do the same stretches on CF it is considered to far. Even his average stages are longer on CP than CF but not so much 26.7 and 23.9 km/day. Even Brierley points out that if you do to long stretches (a staggering 28 km/day (CF in 4 weeks)) you don't have time to attend mass, meditate, write up your journal and reflect on your purpose. Otherwise it is not a pilgrimage. What he doesn't say is how long this has to take and what about those who are slow walkers that comes to the albergue late even if they do a short stage (I was at the albergue on CF earlier than some who had done a short stage even if I had done 1,5 Brierley stages)? For him the time at the daily stop seams more important then the daily journey. So the rule should maybe be "you need to have X hours at the rest place" each day. For some reason he doesn't write anything about this in the CP guide. In the CF guide he points out that he like the fact that he walks one day for each day Jesus lived like that has been the purpose of the stages. Maybe I should send the questions to him

 

[fiona99]

I think some of your questions are only answerable by yourself ....'re how many km are you allowed to walk....as many as you want....or know you can comfortably do...based loosely on your practice sessions.....how slow is slow.....walking less km than you know you can do....for about a week worked for me....gradually pushing myself to a number I had not walked before....I could do it ....did I enjoy it .....no....so went back to a number that worked for me on each particular day.....I look at what people post on here as suggestions and their experience....what worked for them......I looked and took note of their suggestions and used a lot of this valuable information in my own planning...
but I walked my Camino ....my way...I made mistakes....and I learned from them.....I walked my own stages..I wanted to enjoy every day...not rush from place to place without seeing anything...Brierley Who.??.

 

[Kiwi-family]

Oh Beatrice, you really want someone to answer your questions, don't you? You are begging for some hard and fast rules. But why? You don't strike me as the type to want to break rules just to feel better! I may have missed something, but it seems to me that most people - even those who have been "guilty" of strongly expressing their opinion as fact - agree that it's NOT about rules and that sometimes opinions have been expressed in less than ideal ways. It seems to me that some good has been achieved by this thread (ie highlighting the fact that some people can happily walk far and/or fast and that sometimes we need to be careful of how we express ourselves), but the good feels in danger of being annihilated by an insistence that we create a law book.
But if you really need a rule, how about "all must be done in the spirit of love"?

 

[annakappa]

I have never seen a Brierly guide for the Francés, but we did pick one abandoned one for this year's Portugues. In the past, we simply had a list of each village/town as we would come to them, with the distance between each one. That was more than enough.
In the past, we happily walked between 20-30 Km's a day, but this year, put it down to age!!!!, weather ( hot), uncomfortable road walking, I felt shattered hardly ever walking more than 20 Km's.
Beatrice, take advantage of your younger self ( at least you are not in your 70's) and walk as fast as you wish.

 

[BeatriceKarjalainen]

Oh Beatrice, you really want someone to answer your questions, don't you? You are begging for some hard and fast rules. But why? You don't strike me as the type to want to break rules just to feel better! I may have missed something, but it seems to me that most people - even those who have been "guilty" of strongly expressing their opinion as fact - agree that it's NOT about rules and that sometimes opinions have been expressed in less than ideal ways. It seems to me that some good has been achieved by this thread (ie highlighting the fact that some people can happily walk far and/or fast and that sometimes we need to be careful of how we express ourselves), but the good feels in danger of being annihilated by an insistence that we create a law book.
But if you really need a rule, how about "all must be done in the spirit of love"?

No I don't want to have answers. But people continue to say things like maybe there should be a separate section for fast walkers. I can't really understand why. And the comment I made about Brierely was more that he seems to have rules in his head as well but only shows the result of them not the rule it self. Rules that others seem to follow without knowing why. Pointing out that they should share the rules then seems to make them think about it. That no one can set the limits. I think the thread did its purpose to show another side of the subject. That you should think before you answer. That having the "secret rules" excludes some from writing here.

I'm thankful for your support in the thread.