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Hunters!

avana

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Walking in Oct 16th
#1
I think I missed the memo that said not to walk on a Sunday morning from Cacabelos to Villafranca. Seems men hunt on Sunday mornings and the trail is right in the middle of their hunting. They were hunting in between the vineyards. 20181104_085925.jpg About 5km of dogs barking and gun shots right there. Is there any advice for dealing with this? It was very unsettling. They werent far away, they were very close to the path.
 

JCLima

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Caminho Português (Out/2016)
#6
My Camino FB group is acting like it is no big deal. I find it very disturbing.
Because it is not a big deal.

I'm not sure what kind of solution you expect. Hunters and pilgrims share those areas. Hunters have the right to be there and they are aware that other people might be present.

It happens every year.
 

mahz

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo 2017
North 2016
French 2014
French 2012
#7
Take it as part of your cultural experience in the Camino. Of course, it is supposed that hunters would pay attention to what they aim to. Accidents are extremely rare. The noise and the activity itself is not fun for the innocent (walking) bystanders.
 

edandjoan

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
St. Gallen to Muxia
2012-2018
#8
yes this happened to us on the Rota Vicentina last year. There was a wild boar hunt with hunters posted about every 50 meters and we could hear the hunt dogs on the chase. A boar ran out about 50 meter in front off us and the hunter shot and missed it. We could smell the gun powder. A short while later we were motioned to halt and stand back under a tree, but no boar appeared and we walked on. So glad to get past the hunt. I must admit it was exciting to see.
 
#9
...on wearing orange...

Recently a local lad was shot and killed in a hunting accident. The incident rocked our small community here in the French Alps and the ball has started rolling for changes to be made to make our mountains a safer place for everyone. I set out to complete a 'Week of Peaks' - the mission was to climb one of our mountain peaks each day, wearing obnoxiously orange safety kit and encourage others to join me in the hopes of raising awareness of the cause.

We need to share our beautiful mountains in a safe manner. This was summit #4 of the week: The formidable Roc 'Enfer. This mountain range lives up to its name with rugged peaks strung together with precipitous ridge-lines. I climbed it as a loop for the first time last summer and was told it was considered off-limits as a loop. Too many people have died up there (including one person just three days before I did it) and the powers-that-be decided to remove all cables and signage. However, the summit is still accessible from the Col de Ratti side. This hike is still not for those suffering vertigo, but what a reward at the top!

Damian McArthur
Published on 2 Nov 2018








 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" camino
Porto to SdC May 2019
#10
A British guy was killed a couple of weeks ago in France on a recognised biking trail wearing “a brightly-coloured helmet and coloured mountain bike” so don't rely on hi-vis to help. I could recount loads of horror storied from living in Canada but the best advice I was given (by the Provincial Police) was "if you hear bangs then go and play somewhere else" - not practicable on the Camino of course.
Most hunters act responsibly - while GeoCaching in northern France with my daughters we crossed paths with some hunters in hi-vis. One of them offered to lend us some waistcoats - we elected to do our "hunting" elsewhere.
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" camino
Porto to SdC May 2019
#11
Because it is not a big deal.

I'm not sure what kind of solution you expect. Hunters and pilgrims share those areas. Hunters have the right to be there and they are aware that other people might be present.

It happens every year.
"Because it is not a big deal"

Death is not a big deal? You are so, so wrong there.

"It happens every year" as does the death of innocent bystanders killed by careless hunters.

Both "sides" need to be vigilant.
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x4), Fisterra/Muxía(x2), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham,
C inglés. 2019? Who knows! ;-)
#12
In France, 113 hunting accidents recorded for the season 2017/18, the lowest number since statistics started (last 20 years), 13 of which were fatal.

Like for everything else on the Camino, just take care as you would in your own country :)
 

frida1

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances April 11-May 11 2014
#13
We finished the Italian part of Via Francigena one week ago. In Tuscay, we had a few days where hunters were all around us. We heard them, but also saw them walking with guns and dogs on and off the roads. I did find it unsettling, and was glad to leave them behind. It seemed that locals took this as par for the course. If hunters are allowed to be all over the roads and public areas, I don't know how one can avoid them without staying indoors.
 

avana

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Walking in Oct 16th
#14
In France, 113 hunting accidents recorded for the season 2017/18, the lowest number since statistics started (last 20 years), 13 of which were fatal.

Like for everything else on the Camino, just take care as you would in your own country :)
I wouldn't be walking through vineyards with a bunch of guys hunting ☹ Look at the photo I posted. I came across 4 guys in different areas while walking through 4-5 km.
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#15
Accidents are extremely rare.
A boar ran out about 50 meter in front off us and the hunter shot and missed it.
In October 2105, a hunter near Laza wounded a wild boar, then was gored when he went in for a second shot. The hunter bled to death.

A thirteen year old boy was shot in the head and died just last month in the Valladolid area.

The accident rate is low, but caution is worthwhile during hunting season. If it scares you, don't walk the Camino during hunting season! May through September has the least hunting. Wild boar can be hunted all year.
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x4), Fisterra/Muxía(x2), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham,
C inglés. 2019? Who knows! ;-)
#16
I wouldn't be walking through vineyards with a bunch of guys hunting ☹ Look at the photo I posted. I came across 4 guys in different areas while walking through 4-5 km.
Oh. I’m afraid it happens in France, Italy and Spain during the hunting season. That is just the way it is....
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x4), Fisterra/Muxía(x2), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham,
C inglés. 2019? Who knows! ;-)
#19
Some say it is 50 m from isolated dwellings and caminos, others 200m. I don’t know for sure as I am no hunter.
If it worries you, follow @falcon269 advice above and avoid walking during the hunting season.
 

Felipe

Veteran Member
#20
As I understand the Navarra regulation (that, in the Camino, means from Roncesvalles to Viana), hunting is only legal in designated areas ("cotos de caza", private or public). Sometimes, cotos are adjacent to residential areas, paved roads or public paths; signposts can be seen sometimes along the Frances. But in this case, hunters should keep a "security zone"; the Camino de Santiago is specifically mentioned as a restricted area.
Big game hunting (as wild boar) in public forests is a controversial topic; anyway, it requires a specific, temporal license and a previous signposting to alert neighbors and walkers. I doubt very much that it could be allowed in or nearby the Camino.
As it happens, hunters (and local people) resent limits and regulations and sometimes take a cavalier attitude towards norms. I remember a farmer in France telling me that he respected the regulations about pigeon hunting....mostly.
The only thing that we could do is to be aware and cautious, stick to the Camino where a signpost announces a coto de caza, and report problems or incidents to hospitaleros.
 
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Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" camino
Porto to SdC May 2019
#25
I first saw this in the carriage of a London Underground train. Try not to read it out loud, the word jolly can become a tongue twister:

I saw a jolly hunter
With a jolly gun
Walking in the country
In the jolly sun.


In the jolly meadow
Sat a jolly hare.
Saw the jolly hunter.
Took jolly care.


Hunter jolly eager-
Sight of jolly prey.
Forgot gun pointing
Wrong jolly way.


Jolly hunter jolly head
Over heels gone.
Jolly old safety catch
Not jolly on.


Bang went the jolly gun.
Hunter jolly dead.
Jolly hare got clean away.
Jolly good, I said.


by Charles Causley 1917 - 2003

You need to pause for effect on the full stop (period) after clean away
 
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mahz

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo 2017
North 2016
French 2014
French 2012
#26
In my humble opinion, avoid walking on days in which hunting is permitted would be like avoiding walking on roads because you can be run over by a car. Basic common sense should be enough to control the risks, and the unexpected accident could happen anyway. For the most part, you can expect sensible rules, and hunters respecting them. Nothing the be afraid of, apart from the eventual annoying noise and/or the slight repulsion of seeing people practicing a 'sport' hard to understand.

For what I know, the hunting season varies every year and it is decided by the regional authorities, so that it is also different along the different parts of the Camino.
 
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
#27
We pilgrims must understand and accept that, when we walk the Camino de Santiago during approved hunting periods, we must share the territory. The hunters are there by right.

Most all of them understand the responsibility that carrying a loaded weapon entails. During this relatively brief time of the year, during October and November usually, the numbers of pilgrims are way down and the threat is minimized.

The hunters KNOW where the Camino trail or senda is. They KNOW where you SHOULD be if you are there. They would not knowingly point a loaded weapon in that direction unless they could verify it was safe to do so.

That said, we have a responsibility to be seen and heard. For example, in many forum threads we advocate wearing very bright safety colors to create a stark contrast against the natural background as a protection against oncoming drivers when road walking. However, this same safety measure offers a level of protection when walking the Camino trails, off-road.

Hunters generally wear international orange vests or hats to stand out against the terrain. For our purposes the neon lime-yellow safety would work as well. All pilgrims would do well to adopt something like a florescent ball cap, sun hat, or other overly bright outer clothing, especially during this season. It also adds a measure of safety when road walking.

Personally, my Marmot rain & wind shell parka (with pit zips) is very bright orange. I wear the same cap as in my avatar - look to the left... You are not aware you are wearing these bright clothing items, but they CAN save your life...

The other thing you MIGHT do when walking in a forested area during suspected hunting season is to toot your safety whistle periodically to signal others that you are there.

You don't have a safety whistle? Refer to Camino Safety Basics 101... Cell phones cannot always be relied on to summon help. An S-O-S, sounded on a whistle will bring attention. Attention brings help. That's three short toots, followed by three longish toots, followed by three short, and continue....stopping for air...

To just signal any hunter in the area that you are there, I am suggesting one or two toots every 15 minutes or so. If you see folks who appear to be hunters in the distance, give them two short blasts.

Once any hunters who might be in the area know you are there, your safety margin goes way up.

Be seen, be heard, be safe...

Hope this helps.
 
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Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
#28
Almost all Osprey rucksacks have a whistle.
- In case you havent spotted it, it is in the buckle on the chest strap.
When I tested it, it scared the bejezez out of my cats..!

Hunter stores also have orange hat bands and head bands....
A bobbing orange marked head might have a better chance of getting spotted in the first place, being higher up in ther landscape...
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Ch. d'Arles: Oloron Ste Marie to Aragones; Frances (2016); V.d.l.P.; Sanabres (2017)
#29
When I was walking the Camino Frances in the fall a couple of years ago, I saw several used shotgun shells right on the edge of the trail. This will not stop me walking in October/November, but with the frequent sounds of shooting and sight of hunters, I do not feel safe. The comparison to walking on or near highways is not totally valid, as I can see and avoid the vehicles, whereas I can neither see nor avoid a bullet coming. But I shall not cease to walk the camino routes in the fall whenever I can. For me, life is not safe but it can be fun. I am rather more concerned about meeting large bears close up, which sometimes happens to me when I walk near home. My motto could be: "Take care, but don't stop walking."
 

Harington

una abuelita inglés
Camino(s) past & future
Vézelay/Francés 2011, Primitivo 2012, VdlP 2013, Via Domitia 2014, Inglés 2015, Francigena 2016
#30
I think I missed the memo that said not to walk on a Sunday morning from Cacabelos to Villafranca. Seems men hunt on Sunday mornings and the trail is right in the middle of their hunting. They were hunting in between the vineyards. View attachment 48412 About 5km of dogs barking and gun shots right there. Is there any advice for dealing with this? It was very unsettling. They werent far away, they were very close to the path.
Wear hi-viz clothing and cap
 

Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
#31
Come to think of it, would it help to be singing out loud, maybe something ecclesiastical, and thus scare the wildlife away from you, and be heard at the same time ??
Or would the hunters be likely to shoot you in the butt for the very same reason !!??
 
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tpmchugh

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2013)
Camino Frances (2015)
#32
I think I missed the memo that said not to walk on a Sunday morning from Cacabelos to Villafranca. Seems men hunt on Sunday mornings and the trail is right in the middle of their hunting. They were hunting in between the vineyards. View attachment 48412 About 5km of dogs barking and gun shots right there. Is there any advice for dealing with this? It was very unsettling. They werent far away, they were very close to the path.
Dont worry so much about the noise. If you hear it, it has missed you. I experienced the hunt once on the camino although for the life of me, I cant remember where. I think it was in the Melide area. Did not bother me that much other than I dont like guns. Have seen too much of them in the past
 
Camino(s) past & future
2016 Sjpp to Sdc. 2017 Lisbon to Sdc to Finisterre. 2018 ?
#33
Don't mind boar hunting so much but it is somewhat disconcerting to find hunters getting stuck into the beer at a bar before venturing out with their guns and dogs as we discovered one time. We didn't feel at ease until we were well away from that area.

Off the topic - Wondering why we couldn't hear much bird song in the countryside while walking the Francis and the Portugeuse, and seeing lots of spent shotgun shells on the ground, I did a little research afterwards.
Apparently, some European and mediterranean countries have an appalling record for shooting song birds. (Estimated to be 25 million per annum) France, Italy and Spain are guilty. That's what the shotgun shells will probably be for.
Ironically, France is going to ban the five main pesticides believed to be responsible for killing bees. Could this mean an explosion in insects of which birds predate upon? Oh la la, where are the birds?
Hearing birdsong while walking the Camino should make anyone's heart light up and smile!
 

Charles Zammit

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances , St Jean Pied de Port - Finisterra May/ June 2017
Le Puy en Velay - Ales May 2018
#34
I do not hunt , if I found someone hunting on my property they would get their marching orders quick smart .

I do have some concerns with some advice given ,hunters in Australia use whistles to attract foxes , it sounds very much like the distress call of a rabbit to do so will invite interest from the nearest barrel . Perhaps whistles really shouldn't be used . Further , someone blasting away on a referee's whistle just to announce their presence might annoy a stalking hunter enough to tempt them to fire a warning shot , not all hunters/ people are responsible.
To my mind the greatest danger probably lies with the game being hunted , I wouldn't want to be within kilometres of a possibly wounded and certainly frightened wild Boar , crashing through undergrowth in panic and desperation , angry enough to take it's revenge on the nearest human .:eek:
It is one day where you have found yourself in a dangerous position , do as any self preserving animal would do , find a refuge and wait it out .
 
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo June 2013
SJPP - Logroño June 2014
Ingles July2016
#35
[QUOTE="Walton, post: 678726, member: 55455"

Off the topic - Wondering why we couldn't hear much bird song in the countryside
Apparently, some European and mediterranean countries have an appalling record for shooting song birds. (Estimated to be 25 million per annum) France, Italy and Spain are guilty[/QUOTE]

Shooting song birds ?? What I read on Internet is that those birds are captured alive to be caged. Aniway this custom is going to be banned soon following EU requirement.
In relation to danger of hunting I am mountaneer and never heard of any moutaneer being hurt by a hunter and we sometimes share the same territory.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#36
I saw a jolly hunter
It's funny. Also soberingly and sadly true in a way. The overwhelming majority of fatal and non-fatal victims of such incidents are fellow hunters or beaters or it's self-inflicted (I checked the statistics for France and Germany, I suppose Spain is similar). The thirteen year old boy mentioned earlier who was shot and died last month near Valladolid was a member of a (family) hunting party.

It has happened only once to me (not in Spain) that we walked into a hunt, probably in October or November, too. They are usually an organised group and they are moving, and you hear them from far away. The only advice I can think of: don't walk towards them (obviously), walk into a different direction or just wait until they are gone. Wear a brightly coloured hat and coat/backpack. Doesn't everyone own a red Altus poncho anyway?
 
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Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" camino
Porto to SdC May 2019
#38
It's funny. Also soberingly and sadly true in a way. The overwhelming majority of fatal and non-fatal victims of such incidents are fellow hunters or beaters or it's self-inflicted (I checked the statistics for France and Germany, I suppose Spain is similar). The thirteen year old boy mentioned earlier who was shot and died last month near Valladolid was a member of a (family) hunting party.

It has happened only once to me (not in Spain) that we walked into a hunt, probably in October or November, too. They are usually an organised group and they are moving, and you hear them from far away. The only advice I can think of: don't walk towards them (obviously), walk into a different direction or just wait until they are gone. Wear a brightly coloured hat and coat/backpack. Doesn't everyone own a red Altus poncho anyway?
No, mine's green (I think) :eek:
 
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy - Santiago(2007-2012), Via Gebennensis (2013)
Geneve - Le Puy - Santiago (2017)
#39
We pilgrims must understand and accept that, when we walk the Camino de Santiago during approved hunting periods, we must share the territory. The hunters are there by right.

Most all of them understand the responsibility that carrying a loaded weapon entails. During this relatively brief time of the year, during October and November usually, the numbers of pilgrims are way down and the threat is minimized.

The hunters KNOW where the Camino trail or senda is. They KNOW where you SHOULD be if you are there. They would not knowingly point a loaded weapon in that direction unless they could verify it was safe to do so.

That said, we have a responsibility to be seen and heard. For example, in many forum threads we advocate wearing very bright safety colors to create a stark contrast against the natural background as a protection against oncoming drivers when road walking. However, this same safety measure offers a level of protection when walking the Camino trails, off-road.

Very well said!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
#40
It's funny. Also soberingly and sadly true in a way. The overwhelming majority of fatal and non-fatal victims of such incidents are fellow hunters or beaters or it's self-inflicted
Provisionally rated as the world's second funniest joke:

A couple of hunters are out in the woods when one of them falls to the ground. He doesn't seem to be breathing. The other whips out his mobile phone and calls the emergency services. He gasps out to the operator: "My friend is dead! What can I do?"

The operator, in a calm soothing voice says: "Just take it easy. First, let's make sure he's dead." There is silence, then a shot is heard. The guy's voice comes back on the line. He says: "OK, now what?"
 
Camino(s) past & future
Planning Italy to Finisterre and back (20xx)
#41
In Italy it's becoming a problem from 1/9 to 31/10 2018 we already had 8 dead and 24 wounded. There are rules, but no one checks on hunters, so they do whatever they like even shooting toward roads or houses.
During hunting season I only go for walks in non hunting areas (very few) or in days (Tuesday and Friday) when hunting is not allowed. Otherwise, I feel much safer at home.
 

RJM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
A few times, but soon again I hope....
#42
In Italy it's becoming a problem from 1/9 to 31/10 2018 we already had 8 dead and 24 wounded. There are rules, but no one checks on hunters, so they do whatever they like even shooting toward roads or houses.
During hunting season I only go for walks in non hunting areas (very few) or in days (Tuesday and Friday) when hunting is not allowed. Otherwise, I feel much safer at home.
Wear an orange backpack. Don't wear a deer costume. 😎
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (Spring '17)
Primitivo (Spring '18)
TBD (2019)
#44
Almost all Osprey rucksacks have a whistle.
- In case you havent spotted it, it is in the buckle on the chest strap.
Oh my gosh, amazing tip! I learned something about my backpack today! (It’s not my camino pack though...)
 

avana

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Walking in Oct 16th
#45
We pilgrims must understand and accept that, when we walk the Camino de Santiago during approved hunting periods, we must share the territory. The hunters are there by right.

Most all of them understand the responsibility that carrying a loaded weapon entails. During this relatively brief time of the year, during October and November usually, the numbers of pilgrims are way down and the threat is minimized.

The hunters KNOW where the Camino trail or senda is. They KNOW where you SHOULD be if you are there. They would not knowingly point a loaded weapon in that direction unless they could verify it was safe to do so.

That said, we have a responsibility to be seen and heard. For example, in many forum threads we advocate wearing very bright safety colors to create a stark contrast against the natural background as a protection against oncoming drivers when road walking. However, this same safety measure offers a level of protection when walking the Camino trails, off-road.

Hunters generally wear international orange vests or hats to stand out against the terrain. For our purposes the neon lime-yellow safety would work as well. All pilgrims would do well to adopt something like a florescent ball cap, sun hat, or other overly bright outer clothing, especially during this season. It also adds a measure of safety when road walking.

Personally, my Marmot rain & wind shell parka (with pit zips) is very bright orange. I wear the same cap as in my avatar - look to the left... You are not aware you are wearing these bright clothing items, but they CAN save your life...

The other thing you MIGHT do when walking in a forested area during suspected hunting season is to toot your safety whistle periodically to signal others that you are there.

You don't have a safety whistle? Refer to Camino Safety Basics 101... Cell phones cannot always be relied on to summon help. An S-O-S, sounded on a whistle will bring attention. Attention brings help. That's three short toots, followed by three longish toots, followed by three short, and continue....stopping for air...

To just signal any hunter in the area that you are there, I am suggesting one or two toots every 15 minutes or so. If you see folks who appear to be hunters in the distance, give them two short blasts.

Once any hunters who might be in the area know you are there, your safety margin goes way up.

Be seen, be heard, be safe...

Hope this helps.
Loved this! Thanks so much
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francis SJPP
April 2016, August 2017, May 2018
Camino PortuGUESE
May 2019
#46
Being vegetarian, I am against hunting and have experienced the nerve wracking camino walk this year to the sound and sights of hunters. It was a small section on a Sunday. I prayed I wouldn't be shot and felt so sorry for the poor terrified animals.
Love
 
Camino(s) past & future
Past: (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016)
Future (God-willing): Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo (2018)
#47
5646A689-8D93-48D6-853C-E0763A79F23E.jpeg B51FBDB6-7902-4DEA-B5A4-C804C1392283.jpeg Four Sundays running the hunters shared their country with our family!
One week they asked if we’d seen their naughty runaway dog!
 


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