"I would walk 500 Miles"

[Cooper1991]

Hello,

My name is George and I'm delighted to know that there's tons of friendly people happy to share information and there's a family atmosphere as we have something in common.

I'd love to start on the Frances but 40 days or more is slightly too much time, so I'm thinking about the Portugues from Lisbon. Seems like Lisbon to Porto has less detailed information on stopping places and albergues which is a bit concerning, but it will be June so maybe a night or two under the stars will be needed. I'm not "in it to win it" so you won't see me posting and boasting about fast times. Everyone to their own, so my view is the journey is the destination and being out in fresh air and nature is more important than covering the miles quickly. If I'm not last, I'm going too fast !

I am a Baptist Christian but not doing the Camino for religious reasons, and also I'm so blessed, I'm not really going to "find myself" either, although I believe it's a great place to do that.

My expectations are simple; get exercise, lose weight, help others where possible (I'm also a Life Coach & Business Mentor) and just take every day as it comes.

In addition, I hate hiking so my only hikes or treks have been done for charity eg Everest Base Camp & Kilimanjaro. So this Camino will be done for charity. It's good to get out of your comfort zone and being away from home for more than a month with only a small back pack sounds awesome. Minimalist heaven.

I'm planning to leave Lisbon on 20th June as I have this stupid idea that leaving midweek will be quieter as most people will start on the Saturday or Sunday. I stand to be corrected. Booking flights this week.

Buen Camino to ALL.

 

[trecile]

Honestly, I wouldn't choose to walk from Lisbon for a first Camino. Instead, I would choose a starting point on the Camino Francés which will get you to Santiago (or wherever you want to end up) in the time that you have available.
The reason is that the pilgrim infrastructure between Lisbon and Porto is nowhere near as robust as on the Camino Francés or on the Portuguese Camino after Porto.

 

[Cooper1991]

Honestly, I wouldn't choose to walk from Lisbon for a first Camino. Instead, I would choose a starting point on the Camino Francés which will get you to Santiago (or wherever you want to end up) in the time that you have available.
The reason is that the pilgrim infrastructure between Lisbon and Porto is nowhere near as robust as on the Camino Francés or on the Portuguese Camino after Porto.

Thanks. I can see that from the quality of information generally available but I was hoping that it would be easier to get accommodation than the busy Frances route? There are also some chunky 30km + days in the Lisbon-Porto route so if there's no options to have an impromptu short day, then that's a problem as the journey is your slave not you being the slave to the journey.

 

[trecile]

The Francés is busier, but has more places to stay, and oftentimes you can break days up into shorter stages than is possible between Lisbon and Porto. Both routes are going to be busy in the last 100 km before Santiago in the summer.
Until you get to Galicia on the Camino Francés, it's not that busy in June and July.

Starting in Burgos would give you about 500 km to Santiago, from Logroño it's just over 600 km, so more similar to the Lisbon to Santiago distance.

 

[Anamiri]

Hello,

My name is George and I'm delighted to know that there's tons of friendly people happy to share information and there's a family atmosphere as we have something in common.

I'd love to start on the Frances but 40 days or more is slightly too much time, so I'm thinking about the Portugues from Lisbon. Seems like Lisbon to Porto has less detailed information on stopping places and albergues which is a bit concerning, but it will be June so maybe a night or two under the stars will be needed. I'm not "in it to win it" so you won't see me posting and boasting about fast times. Everyone to their own, so my view is the journey is the destination and being out in fresh air and nature is more important than covering the miles quickly. If I'm not last, I'm going too fast !

I am a Baptist Christian but not doing the Camino for religious reasons, and also I'm so blessed, I'm not really going to "find myself" either, although I believe it's a great place to do that.

My expectations are simple; get exercise, lose weight, help others where possible (I'm also a Life Coach & Business Mentor) and just take every day as it comes.

In addition, I hate hiking so my only hikes or treks have been done for charity eg Everest Base Camp & Kilimanjaro. So this Camino will be done for charity. It's good to get out of your comfort zone and being away from home for more than a month with only a small back pack sounds awesome. Minimalist heaven.

I'm planning to leave Lisbon on 20th June as I have this stupid idea that leaving midweek will be quieter as most people will start on the Saturday or Sunday. I stand to be corrected. Booking flights this week.

Buen Camino to ALL.

Hi George , just a couple of things.
Its unlikely you'd need 40 days, most people do it in 28-35 days. It takes me 33 with a couple of rest days, and judging by your photo I'm a lot older than you. Its a lot less difficult than Everest Base camp or Kilimanjaro. Most people will walk between 20 - 25 kms a day, but its village to village. Your day starts with 8 kms to the cafe where you have breakfast, then another 12 kms to the one where you have second breakfast, then the last few kms to where you stay that night. You dont walk 25 kms straight (well most of us dont)

I would recommend the Frances, yes there are more people, but also a lot more services and accommodation.

My take on things, there are more albergue beds, than bookable private rooms, so if you're flexible on accommodation its not likely to be an issue. I'd book the first few days from St Jean which tend to have less accommodation (if thats where you'd start from) and then work it out day by day from there.
If you think you'd like to take it slower I would just pick a starting point closer to Santiago and go from there.

 

[J Willhaus]

What about starting on the Camino Frances somewhere easy to get to like Burgos or Leon then cutting off at Ponferrada on the Invierno?

 

[Cooper1991]

The Francés is busier, but has more places to stay, and oftentimes you can break days up into shorter stages than is possible between Lisbon and Porto. Both routes are going to be busy in the last 100 km before Santiago in the summer.
Until you get to Galicia on the Camino Francés, it's not that busy in June and July.

Starting in Burgos would give you about 500 km to Santiago, from Logroño it's just over 600 km, so more similar to the Lisbon to Santiago distance.

It feels like cheating or queue skipping to advance the start on the Frances

So you did Lisbon-Porto last year? Assuming I can do the 30km + stages, what are the problems if the traffic is lighter up to Porto? Is there a severe lack of accommodation? Is it super expensive? I've never been to Lisbon or Madrid so hoped to enter through Lisbon and exit from Madrid.

 

[Anamiri]

It feels like cheating or queue skipping to advance the start on the Frances

Most people actually start at Sarria, and only walk the last 100 kms, so you're not cheating. And others walk a week or two a year and complete a Camino over time. There is no 'correct' starting place or distance, so rest easy on that.

 

[J Willhaus]

There is no official starting point on any Camino except your home, or where you start. If you want a Compostela you must walk the last 100 km. Many people start at that point.

 

[trecile]

It feels like cheating or queue skipping to advance the start on the Frances

Traditionally, the Camino starts from your front door, so if you are not walking from your home you are "queue skipping" as you put it. SJPdP or Roncesvalles are arbitrary starting points.

So you did Lisbon-Porto last year? Assuming I can do the 30km + stages, what are the problems if the traffic is lighter up to Porto? Is there a severe lack of accommodation? Is it super expensive?

Other than groups of Portuguese pilgrims walking to Fatima, there were very few others on the trail. In one place that I stayed I was the only one there. It was a bit lonely, but I was expecting that. Between Lisbon and Porto you just probably aren't going to meet many others on the Camino.

 

[Cooper1991]

Hi George , just a couple of things.
Its unlikely you'd need 40 days, most people do it in 28-35 days. It takes me 33 with a couple of rest days, and judging by your photo I'm a lot older than you. Its a lot less difficult than Everest Base camp or Kilimanjaro. Most people will walk between 20 - 25 kms a day, but its village to village. Your day starts with 8 kms to the cafe where you have breakfast, then another 12 kms to the one where you have second breakfast, then the last few kms to where you stay that night. You dont walk 25 kms straight (well most of us dont)

I would recommend the Frances, yes there are more people, but also a lot more services and accommodation.

My take on things, there are more albergue beds, than bookable private rooms, so if you're flexible on accommodation its not likely to be an issue. I'd book the first few days from St Jean which tend to have less accommodation (if thats where you'd start from) and then work it out day by day from there.
If you think you'd like to take it slower I would just pick a starting point closer to Santiago and go from there.

Hi Anamiri.

I've never been to Lisbon before so that's the attraction on starting there, otherwise I'd immediately go for the traditional Frances route. Starting further up the Frances is an option but feels like cheating.

As for EBC it was only 11 days albeit mostly an uphill battle and I was a lot fitter in 2017 In saying that, my first training day last week I did 24km in one go with 3 x 10 mins stops and crippled my feet with blisters ! Lesson learned. Doing 11 days on the trot is one thing but doing 30-40 with little let up is another challenge.

Thanks. I'll think about it.

 

[henrythedog]

It feels like cheating or queue skipping to advance the start on the Frances

Spheres.

(Quoting Churchill who was asked to refrain from writing ‘balls’ on memos so as not to offend his staff; not that that was likely)

 

[Cooper1991]

Traditionally, the Camino starts from your front door, so if you are not walking from your home you are "queue skipping" as you put it. SJPdP or Roncesvalles are arbitrary starting points.


Other than groups of Portuguese pilgrims walking to Fatima, there were very few others on the trail. In one place that I stayed I was the only one there. It was a bit lonely, but I was expecting that. Between Lisbon and Porto you just probably aren't going to meet many others on the Camino.

Thx. I can maybe exit through Lisbon as there's bound to be a train or plane from Santiago. Your experience is what my gut feel is, a long walk talking to yourself I'll re-look at the Frances.

 

[Camembert]

I am a promoter of the Portuguese caminhos
if you take your time to read some threads here on this forum about the track from Lisbon to Porto , you’ll see that there are loads of posts .
There is no need to walk more than 20 kms per day . my wife and I walked this Portuguese caminho from Lisbon it was our first caminho ever and I gathered loads of information on my Ipad Mini which I took with me, all found on this forum and I did it in 2013 . We slept everywhere in a bed, in albergues, hostals ,hotels, b&b’s , a schoolcampus, in a retrait home where nuns lived And even at the voluntairy firebrigade on a matrass on the ground . No trouble at all.
a good start is Lisbon and a beautiful city too to walk around as a tourist before you start walking . It took us 34 days including restdays in Coimbra, Porto , Barcelos and Pontevedra and never more than 20 kms a day .
so just start reading back for a while and you get all your answers, places to be and to stay, places of interest etc etc.

Bom caminho

 

[Anamya]

It feels like cheating or queue skipping to advance the start on the Frances

I just want to reinforce that there is no official starting point to the Frances and, by that logic, starting anywhere that is not your door is cheating.
It's between you and God the effort you put in your camino, so choose wisely what works for you, your faith and your wellbeing
For a first Camino, I would choose the Portuguese starting in Porto (it's a fantastic trail) or the Frances starting in Burgos or Leon. The reasoning is the infrastructure and the comraderie you will find in other pilgrims on those routes.

I hope you find what is best for you and have a great camino!

 

[C clearly]

It feels like cheating or queue skipping to advance the start on the Frances

This makes little sense, given that you are flying most of the way from home. How is it cheating to walk 650 km on the Camino Francés instead of 650 km on the Camino Portugués?

I'll challenge you a little more ... and suggest that your definition of "cheating" is somewhat in conflict with the objectives that you outline below...

I'm not "in it to win it"

Everyone to their own, so my view is the journey is the destination and being out in fresh air and nature is more important than covering the miles quickly.

My expectations are simple; get exercise, lose weight, help others where possible

SJPP has been popularized as a starting point of the route named "the Camino Francés", which is just a line on a map. Should it "start" in the last point in France, or should the starting point be the first place in Spain? Most Spaniards would consider Roncesvalles to be the starting point of that route. However, your Camino starts wherever you do.

If you hate hiking, the social interactions are probably the main thing that will lead to a successful camino in your terms. You will find those interactions anywhere along the Camino Frances.

 

[auburnfive]

You could start from Porto and then carry on to Finnesterre and Muxia

 

[trecile]

If you hate hiking, the social interactions are probably the main thing that will lead to a successful camino in your terms. You will find those interactions anywhere along the Camino Frances.

And much less likely between Lisbon and Porto.
I enjoyed my time on the Camino between Lisbon and Porto, but I just don't think that it's great for a first timer.

 

[Cooper1991]

This makes little sense, given that you are flying most of the way from home. How is it cheating to walk 650 km on the Camino Francés instead of 650 km on the Camino Portugués?

I'll challenge you a little more ... and suggest that your definition of "cheating" is somewhat in conflict with the objectives that you outline below...




SJPP has been popularized as a starting point of the route named "the Camino Francés", which is just a line on a map. Should it "start" in the last point in France, or should the starting point be the first place in Spain? Most Spaniards would consider Roncesvalles to be the starting point of that route. However, your Camino starts wherever you do.

If you hate hiking, the social interactions are probably the main thing that will lead to a successful camino in your terms. You will find those interactions anywhere along the Camino Frances.

Sorry, maybe I didn't communicate that the "cheating" I meant was starting closer to Santiago (eg Burgos) and that was in jest, not as literal as you have "clearly" taken it

As for hating hiking, my experiences on EBC & Kili were 85% hard work uphill torture and 15% enjoyable. So to expand on hiking, I'd ordinarily prefer to "hike" round 18 holes on a golf course than go hiking itself. In the case of the Camino, to me it seems more of a life adventure than bagging munros.

Yes, social interactions will add to the experience for sure.

I consider myself challenged and thanks for the advice

 

[trecile]

As for hating hiking, my experiences on EBC & Kili were 85% hard work uphill torture and 15% enjoyable. So to expand on hiking, I'd ordinarily prefer to "hike" round 18 holes on a golf course than go hiking itself. In the case of the Camino, to me it seems more of a life adventure than bagging munros.

I like to think of the Camino as traveling across a country, but using my feet instead of a car, bus, or train.

I get a bit tired of "hiking" at home when I'm basically just walking a loop somewhere then going back home. I love having a destination to walk to. At the end of a day of walking I like being somewhere different from where I started in the morning.

 

[Cooper1991]

I like to think of the Camino as traveling across a country, but using my feet instead of a car, bus, or train.

I get a bit tired of "hiking" at home when I'm basically just walking a loop somewhere then going back home. I love having a destination to walk to. At the end of a day of walking I like being somewhere different from where I started in the morning.

Exactly. That's why I've always played golf and got my hiking done Every round is unique, and so is being on a mission with every day rewards and experiences which is my motivation for this adventure.

 

[Former member 92300]

Thanks. I can see that from the quality of information generally available but I was hoping that it would be easier to get accommodation than the busy Frances route? There are also some chunky 30km + days in the Lisbon-Porto route so if there's no options to have an impromptu short day, then that's a problem as the journey is your slave not you being the slave to the journey.

There is a lot of infrastructure on the Frances - and most of the time - finding accommodation isn’t as hard as it seems when reading panic postings on the internet. Some rooms/beds are reservable. Others are not reservable. And the frequency of accommodations means you can walk the distances you are comfortable walking - but also means there are usually more accommodations just a few km’s ahead of they are full in the town you are currently in.

 

[David Tallan]

It feels like cheating or queue skipping to advance the start on the Frances

If you aren't starting from your front door, you're advancing your start. Any other point is purely arbitrary. Even if you start in St. Jean Pied de Port on the Frances, which many people now seem to consider the "start" of the Frances, you are queue skipping from where the Paris, Vezelay, and Le Puy routes actually connect some 20 km farther from Santiago, in the neighborhood of Ostabat.

I was hoping that it would be easier to get accommodation than the busy Frances route?

There is a lot of scaremongering going on about how "busy" the Camino Frances, which I think does a huge disservice to first time pilgrims. People are being driven to less walked routes, with a lot less infrastructure in order to avoid the touted "crowds" that, for the most part, simply aren't there. I would add my voice to the others above suggesting that you not fall victim to this scaremongering.

The Frances doesn't really get crowded until after Sarria, and even there it is only at certain times of the year and strategies can still be used to find solitude if that is what is desired. Before Sarria, solitude on the Frances is not at all difficult to find.

The less-walked routes (which includes the Portuguese from Lisbon to Porto) have significantly less infrastructure. Accommodations can be much harder to get than the "busy" Frances precisely because they are less walked. The Portuguese from Lisbon is a great example. If you look at the sub-forums for that route, you'll see there is a lot of discussion right now about the difficulty of finding accommodation on the first days leaving Lisbon. One of the albergues has closed and there was no redundancy, leaving pilgrims with hard choices and taxi rides.

The advantage for the first-time pilgrim of busier routes like the Frances or the Portugues after Porto is that they have much better infrastructure. Better infrastructure = more flexibility. That flexibility can enable people to employ strategies to find solitude (if that is what they want) or to adjust daily distances (if they discover that day after day after day the distance their body wants to walk is different from what they planned). You don't really know what a Camino will be like for you until you walk it. That's why the first Camino is best undertaken with the greatest flexibility to adapt to what you discover. For future Caminos, if that is what you want, you can look at the other routes, when you have a better sense of what your Camino experience really is.

Its unlikely you'd need 40 days, most people do it in 28-35 days. It takes me 33 with a couple of rest days, and judging by your photo I'm a lot older than you.

This is true. On the other hand, my son and I took 37 days to walk from Roncesvalles to Santiago in 2016. We had thought it would take less but he would get terrible blisters when we walked successive days of 25+ km that did not recur when we walked shorter days. He was a lot younger than you (16). Age isn't always a determining factor. What our bodies tell us, is. And we won't hear that until we are on the Camino walking day after day after day after day....

So I totally support the strategy of budgeting more days than you think will be needed so you have a good cushion, even if that means starting closer to Santiago. If you have extra time, there is lots to see in Santiago, or you can walk on to Finisterre/Muxia, or visit somewhere else in Spain.

 

[Cooper1991]

If you aren't starting from your front door, you're advancing your start. Any other point is purely arbitrary. Even if you start in St. Jean Pied de Port on the Frances, which many people now seem to consider the "start" of the Frances, you are queue skipping from where the Paris, Vezelay, and Le Puy routes actually connect some 20 km farther from Santiago, in the neighborhood of Ostabat.


There is a lot of scaremongering going on about how "busy" the Camino Frances, which I think does a huge disservice to first time pilgrims. People are being driven to less walked routes, with a lot less infrastructure in order to avoid the touted "crowds" that, for the most part, simply aren't there. I would add my voice to the others above suggesting that you not fall victim to this scaremongering.

The Frances doesn't really get crowded until after Sarria, and even there it is only at certain times of the year and strategies can still be used to find solitude if that is what is desired. Before Sarria, solitude on the Frances is not at all difficult to find.

The less-walked routes (which includes the Portuguese from Lisbon to Porto) have significantly less infrastructure. Accommodations can be much harder to get than the "busy" Frances precisely because they are less walked. The Portuguese from Lisbon is a great example. If you look at the sub-forums for that route, you'll see there is a lot of discussion right now about the difficulty of finding accommodation on the first days leaving Lisbon. One of the albergues has closed and there was no redundancy, leaving pilgrims with hard choices and taxi rides.

The advantage for the first-time pilgrim of busier routes like the Frances or the Portugues after Porto is that they have much better infrastructure. Better infrastructure = more flexibility. That flexibility can enable people to employ strategies to find solitude (if that is what they want) or to adjust daily distances (if they discover that day after day after day the distance their body wants to walk is different from what they planned). You don't really know what a Camino will be like for you until you walk it. That's why the first Camino is best undertaken with the greatest flexibility to adapt to what you discover. For future Caminos, if that is what you want, you can look at the other routes, when you have a better sense of what your Camino experience really is.



This is true. On the other hand, my son and I took 37 days to walk from Roncesvalles to Santiago in 2016. We had thought it would take less but he would get terrible blisters when we walked successive days of 25+ km that did not recur when we walked shorter days. He was a lot younger than you (16). Age isn't always a determining factor. What our bodies tell us, is. And we won't hear that until we are on the Camino walking day after day after day after day....

So I totally support the strategy of budgeting more days than you think will be needed so you have a good cushion, even if that means starting closer to Santiago. If you have extra time, there is lots to see in Santiago, or you can walk on to Finisterre/Muxia, or visit somewhere else in Spain.

Thank you. Sage advice. I've pretty much binned the idea of Lisbon to Porto (based on a combination of advice here and gut feel) and am re-hooked on to Camino Frances. My previous experience on Everest Base Camp trek showed me that I'm capable of walking 10 hr days (in 2017 anyway) which tbh I didn't ever think I was capable of doing irrespective of fitness, so doing 30km days on a more relatively flat landscape should be achievable, albeit over a longer number of days.

I imagine by the time you rock up to Sarria, the backbone of the journey has been broken so not a problem for more company.

BTW my front door is in Bahrain and walking across Saudi, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, a ferry to Gibraltar, a walk to SJDPP then on to Santiago would be the camino of all caminos No doorstep camino for me !

 

[peregrino_tom]

Hi George
There was a fairly similar discussion a few weeks ago, which you may have seen?

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/is-the-full-portuguese-camino-doable-in-3-weeks.79116/

I think that after being involved in that discussion my view is becoming something like this..
- doing the Portugues from Lisbon just because it looks like a 'whole' camino but is a bit shorter than the Frances, is not a good basis on which to pick it.
- avoiding the Frances because you haven't time to do the 'whole thing' i.e. from SJPdP - and you want to come back and do that sometime - is an argument, but it's not really a very strong one.
I'd urge you to judge more on the qualities and characteristics of the route:
The Portuguese will be quieter, pretty in places (particularly if you choose the coastal options), will probably infuse and inspire you with the open enthusiasm of the Portuguese people, scare the living daylights out of you with the driving, and probably give you plenty of solo time for thinking etc. I met a few people who were walking it as their first camino and they loved it.
The Frances will be busier, more commercial, but also chock full of all that's good about human nature (from all over the world) and a little of what's not so good. Some of the landscapes will be breathtaking, as will the challenges of climbing up to the Cruz and O Cebreiro. You will also experience this unique consciousness/self-consciousness of the Way, that stimulates some pilgrims to make shrines, draw messages of encouragement in the dirt, add cheeky (or inane) graffiti to the concrete underpasses and generally meet everyone in a good humour and share. It gets crazier after Sarria, but that's all part of the package.
Cheers, tom
PS just seen that you've replied above, but now it's written, I might as well post it anyway

 

[David Tallan]

Thank you. Sage advice. I've pretty much binned the idea of Lisbon to Porto (based on a combination of advice here and gut feel) and am re-hooked on to Camino Frances. My previous experience on Everest Base Camp trek showed me that I'm capable of walking 10 hr days (in 2017 anyway) which tbh I didn't ever think I was capable of doing irrespective of fitness, so doing 30km days on a more relatively flat landscape should be achievable, albeit over a longer number of days.

I imagine by the time you rock up to Sarria, the backbone of the journey has been broken so not a problem for more company.

BTW my front door is in Bahrain and walking across Saudi, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, a ferry to Gibraltar, a walk to SJDPP then on to Santiago would be the camino of all caminos No doorstep camino for me !

I generally didn't find more company an issue. My fellow pilgrims were one of my favourite parts of the journey. Some people do find it a real challenge after Sarria, though. They'd be best advised to walk off-season, if possible. If not, choose stopping points other than those recommended in the popular guidebooks or start walking earlier or later in the day. Or even split off at Pontevedra into the Camino Invierno and avoid that section entirely.

FWIW, Google suggests a different route for your doorstep Camino; to Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Italy, France, Spain. There are people who have walked from Santiago to Jerusalem. This is just a bit further. Now walking from Toronto would be an achievement!

(This summer I'll be doing my doorstep Camino. But it won't be from where I am currently living - see above - but from where I was living in my late 20s, in Madrid.)

 

[Cooper1991]

Hi George
There was a fairly similar discussion a few weeks ago, which you may have seen?

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/is-the-full-portuguese-camino-doable-in-3-weeks.79116/

I think that after being involved in that discussion my view is becoming something like this..
- doing the Portugues from Lisbon just because it looks like a 'whole' camino but is a bit shorter than the Frances, is not a good basis on which to pick it.
- avoiding the Frances because you haven't time to do the 'whole thing' i.e. from SJPdP - and you want to come back and do that sometime - is an argument, but it's not really a very strong one.
I'd urge you to judge more on the qualities and characteristics of the route:
The Portuguese will be quieter, pretty in places (particularly if you choose the coastal options), will probably infuse and inspire you with the open enthusiasm of the Portuguese people, scare the living daylights out of you with the driving, and probably give you plenty of solo time for thinking etc. I met a few people who were walking it as their first camino and they loved it.
The Frances will be busier, more commercial, but also chock full of all that's good about human nature (from all over the world) and a little of what's not so good. Some of the landscapes will be breathtaking, as will the challenges of climbing up to the Cruz and O Cebreiro. You will also experience this unique consciousness/self-consciousness of the Way, that stimulates some pilgrims to make shrines, draw messages of encouragement in the dirt, add cheeky (or inane) graffiti to the concrete underpasses and generally meet everyone in a good humour and share. It gets crazier after Sarria, but that's all part of the package.
Cheers, tom
PS just seen that you've replied above, but now it's written, I might as well post it anyway

Thanks. My naive desire for Portugues was not based on distance, it was based on seeing Lisbon for the first time as I'd only been to Algarve and secondly drinking real port on location in Porto All that may be another trip at another time.

 

[trecile]

Thanks. My naive desire for Portugues was not based on distance, it was based on seeing Lisbon for the first time as I'd only been to Algarve and secondly drinking real port on location in Porto All that may be another trip at another time.

You can visit those cities post Camino on your way home. Or at least Porto - it's easy to get a bus from Santiago to Porto, then you can fly home from there.

 

[C clearly]

There is a lot of scaremongering going on about how "busy" the Camino Frances, which I think does a huge disservice to first time pilgrims.

The Frances doesn't really get crowded until after Sarria

You gave a lot of good perspective and advice in your post. However, I think it is worth adding another detail...

In addition to the crowds after Sarria, there IS a very significant pinch point on the Camino Frances. In May and early September, the stages from SJPP to Pamplona can present some serious difficulty in finding beds. These are the first 3 days for the people who have bought into the idea that "the Camino starts in SJPP and you are cheating if you don't start there." The first 3 days are naturally the days that new pilgrims worry most about, so that anxiety level sets the stage for scaremongering.

Sorry, maybe I didn't communicate that the "cheating" I meant was starting closer to Santiago (eg Burgos) and that was in jest, not as literal as you have "clearly" taken it

Yes, I realize that comment would have been made in jest, but it is a very common "feeling" that we all experience at times, and it is good to examine its validity and effects. This idea, combined with the scarcity of facilities for the first 3 days, has led to a very odd situation. At certain times of the the year, there are too many people on those first stages, which leads to much talk of a bed race and anxiety.

People then either avoid the whole route, leading to a decrease in numbers on the rest of the Camino Frances, or they pre-book private lodging for the entire route. Both of these actions mean that some of the more traditional albergues along the middle part of the route are suffering from lack of pilgrims. (These statistics have been discussed elsewhere on the forum.)

Maybe this helps explain why some of us reacted rather strongly to your comments. You would be doing a good thing to start your camino in Roncesvalles or Pamplona! And you will love it.

 

[good_old_shoes]

You need to walk the Camino you feel called to walk. If that's in Portugal, then that's where you need to go.

I haven't walked the Portugues, so can't comment on that one.

But I've walked the Francés several times including at least parts of it last year, in june once and also in july/august, and never had any trouble finding a bed because of 'crowds' (apart from the Pamplona region during San Fermin, which is in july).

There's a lot of panic regarding the availability of beds if you read online, but so far I have simply not come across that problem in reality. I just walk to an albergue and ask for a bed. Simple as that. Usually there's one in the first one I walk into, if not, then in the second or in the next town (usually one hour walking time to the next one, max).

In june the Camino seemed not *that* busy to me. Yes there are many pilgrims, but there's also enough accommodation, so, again, not really a problem, and during the day sometimes I didn't see more than a handful of other pilgrims for hours, sometimes no one at all.

Even in july/august, the "crowds" people keep talking about just started around Cebreiro. From there it was a constant conga line in august. But it was still okay in july. In june you should be totally fine.

A lot of what you read online is probably more based on experiences like "I didn't find private rooms" or "I didn't get a bed in exactly the albergue/town I wanted" as well as "booking.com shows no beds available" ect. For me, personally, the shortage of beds is an online myth, an urban legend... maybe one day I'll eat my words, but it hasn't happened so far.

It might be different if you have serious health problems and can't add 3-5 kms to your walk at the end of the day if needed, or if you only want private rooms, or walk with a group or a dog ect. But for a solo walking, reasonably fit pilgrim who is okay with sleeping on a mat in an albergue dormitory sometimes, it's not really an issue.

If "crowds" and "not enough beds" is why you want to avoid the Francés, I wouldn't worry too much.

The Francés is a wonderful Camino for a first timer, especially if you "hate hiking" and might never do it again. It has a very special atmosphere/vibe, especially if you stay in the donativo albergues like Granon at least from time to time.

So, maybe walk the Francés (from Pamplona, Logrono or Burgos if you want to save time, which for someone who has done the hikes you mentioned shouldn't even be necessary, even if you have less than 40 days). After you finished your Camino, you could go to Lisbon to relax and celebrate before you fly back home.

That's just an idea of course. Any Camino is a good Camino, but the Francés is the goodest of them all in my biased personal opinion...

Whatever you choose, buen Camino!

 

[Cooper1991]

You need to walk the Camino you feel called to walk. If that's in Portugal, then that's where you need to go.

I haven't walked the Portugues, so can't comment on that one.

But I've walked the Francés several times including at least parts of it last year, in june once and also in july/august, and never had any trouble finding a bed because of 'crowds' (apart from the Pamplona region during San Fermin, which is in july).

There's a lot of panic regarding the availability of beds if you read online, but so far I have simply not come across that problem in reality. I just walk to an albergue and ask for a bed. Simple as that. Usually there's one in the first one I walk into, if not, then in the second or in the next town (usually one hour walking time to the next one, max).

In june the Camino seemed not *that* busy to me. Yes there are many pilgrims, but there's also enough accommodation, so, again, not really a problem, and during the day sometimes I didn't see more than a handful of other pilgrims for hours, sometimes no one at all.

Even in july/august, the "crowds" people keep talking about just started around Cebreiro. From there it was a constant conga line in august. But it was still okay in july. In june you should be totally fine.

A lot of what you read online is probably more based on experiences like "I didn't find private rooms" or "I didn't get a bed in exactly the albergue/town I wanted" as well as "booking.com shows no beds available" ect. For me, personally, the shortage of beds is an online myth, an urban legend... maybe one day I'll eat my words, but it hasn't happened so far.

It might be different if you have serious health problems and can't add 3-5 kms to your walk at the end of the day if needed, or if you only want private rooms, or walk with a group or a dog ect. But for a solo walking, reasonably fit pilgrim who is okay with sleeping on a mat in an albergue dormitory sometimes, it's not really an issue.

If "crowds" and "not enough beds" is why you want to avoid the Francés, I wouldn't worry too much.

The Francés is a wonderful Camino for a first timer, especially if you "hate hiking" and might never do it again. It has a very special atmosphere/vibe, especially if you stay in the donativo albergues like Granon at least from time to time.

So, maybe walk the Francés (from Pamplona, Logrono or Burgos if you want to save time, which for someone who has done the hikes you mentioned shouldn't even be necessary, even if you have less than 40 days). After you finished your Camino, you could go to Lisbon to relax and celebrate before you fly back home.

That's just an idea of course. Any Camino is a good Camino, but the Francés is the goodest of them all in my biased personal opinion...

Whatever you choose, buen Camino!

Thanks.

 

[Cooper1991]

You need to walk the Camino you feel called to walk. If that's in Portugal, then that's where you need to go.

I haven't walked the Portugues, so can't comment on that one.

But I've walked the Francés several times including at least parts of it last year, in june once and also in july/august, and never had any trouble finding a bed because of 'crowds' (apart from the Pamplona region during San Fermin, which is in july).

There's a lot of panic regarding the availability of beds if you read online, but so far I have simply not come across that problem in reality. I just walk to an albergue and ask for a bed. Simple as that. Usually there's one in the first one I walk into, if not, then in the second or in the next town (usually one hour walking time to the next one, max).

In june the Camino seemed not *that* busy to me. Yes there are many pilgrims, but there's also enough accommodation, so, again, not really a problem, and during the day sometimes I didn't see more than a handful of other pilgrims for hours, sometimes no one at all.

Even in july/august, the "crowds" people keep talking about just started around Cebreiro. From there it was a constant conga line in august. But it was still okay in july. In june you should be totally fine.

A lot of what you read online is probably more based on experiences like "I didn't find private rooms" or "I didn't get a bed in exactly the albergue/town I wanted" as well as "booking.com shows no beds available" ect. For me, personally, the shortage of beds is an online myth, an urban legend... maybe one day I'll eat my words, but it hasn't happened so far.

It might be different if you have serious health problems and can't add 3-5 kms to your walk at the end of the day if needed, or if you only want private rooms, or walk with a group or a dog ect. But for a solo walking, reasonably fit pilgrim who is okay with sleeping on a mat in an albergue dormitory sometimes, it's not really an issue.

If "crowds" and "not enough beds" is why you want to avoid the Francés, I wouldn't worry too much.

The Francés is a wonderful Camino for a first timer, especially if you "hate hiking" and might never do it again. It has a very special atmosphere/vibe, especially if you stay in the donativo albergues like Granon at least from time to time.

So, maybe walk the Francés (from Pamplona, Logrono or Burgos if you want to save time, which for someone who has done the hikes you mentioned shouldn't even be necessary, even if you have less than 40 days). After you finished your Camino, you could go to Lisbon to relax and celebrate before you fly back home.

That's just an idea of course. Any Camino is a good Camino, but the Francés is the goodest of them all in my biased personal opinion...

Whatever you choose, buen Camino!

My gut feel was always the Frances so maybe another time for the Portugues. It's not so much hating hiking and more hating going up steep inclines. If I can manage to do 25-30km a day I'll do the whole route. It just sounds a big ask to do that every day but I suppose your weight should go down and your fitness and endurance up as you go along. I'll travel light as I know how bad carrying a heavy back pack can be from previous treks.

I've plotted the terrain and villages along the route on Komoot so it's easy to see the harder days and the downhill days.

Still hoping to start around 22 June.

Thanks