Iberian Lynx sighting.

[Oztrekker]

I have completed the Annapurna circuit in winter. I looked intensively for 25 days to find the endangered snow leopard and Yeti without success.



This is the closest I came to finding the iberian snow lynx. I know wolves exist, I pray the lynx is still alive.

What can a conservationist pilgrim do to help bring back this wonderful feline back to the camino frances.

We lost the tasmanian tiger.
Lets not lose another cat in the world, especially on gods highway.

Kind regard Oz.

 

[Biff]

There was talk about reintroducing the European Lynx to Britain.
Someone had the idea of actually introducing the Iberian Lynx (a smaller relative of the European) as it was endangered and increasing it's range could help it's numbers recover.
Not sure if either idea will ever get anywhere.

Biff

 

[Mark Lee]

It seems to me that the Spanish are conservation minded. I would guess the primary threat to the lynx species is due to loss of habitat. It is illegal to hunt it. Also I read that feral dogs kill them, and they are killed by motor vehicles as well.
They are a handsome cat, but unfortunately the most endangered in the world.

 

[whariwharangi]

I have completed the Annapurna circuit in winter. I looked intensively for 25 days to find the endangered snow leopard and Yeti without success.

View attachment 19914

This is the closest I came to finding the iberian snow lynx. I know wolves exist, I pray the lynx is still alive.

What can a conservationist pilgrim do to help bring back this wonderful feline back to the camino frances.

We lost the tasmanian tiger.
Lets not lose another cat in the world, especially on gods highway.

Kind regard Oz.

That picture is of an ordinary cat. Iberian snow lynx would imply there is snow in Iberia. Usually there is not ( a couple months in winter doesn't cut it). The Iberian Lynx (no snow) is limited to Andalucia.

 

[Oztrekker]

It has a beard, and some eye stripes. I said it is descended from an iberian lynx. I did not say it was a pure bred.

 

[Castilian]

What can a conservationist pilgrim do to help bring back this wonderful feline back to the camino frances.

Disclaimers:

1. This post might be long
2. All the info on this post is as far as I know

I don't know when was the last time an Iberian lynx was seen on the Camino Francés but, probably, it was a very long time ago.

Nowadays, officially, Iberian Lynx can be found (on freedom) in Andalucía (mainly in Doñana National Park and in -part(s) of- Sierra Morena), in Castile La Mancha and in Extremadura. Estimation data of number of Iberian Lynx is roughly 300 in Andalucía (data from 2013; www.iberlince.eu/index.php/esp/lince-iberico-esp/distribucion), less than 20 in Castile La Mancha (data from 2007; www.europapress.es/castilla-lamancha/noticia-lm-contabiliza-traves-avistamientos-analisis-excrementos-total-15-linces-territorio-20071105145727.html) and roughly 10 in Extremadura (data from 2015; www.gobex.es/comunicacion/noticia&idPub=15736). In the case of Extremadura, all of them re-introduced (see below about re-introduction programs). Info about areas where Iberian Lynx have been found from 1988 can be found on the next link (that, BTW, includes much more info about the Iberian Lynx) dated on 2012: http://awsassets.wwf.es/downloads/lince_online_newsletter_1.pdf
If you don't read Spanish, take a look at the map on page 2. Red=2002 census Dark Blue=Iberian Lynx found death Light Blue=Iberian Lynx excrements The skin colour squares=1988 census

I said officially in the paragraph above because there are reports of Iberian Lynx sighting on other places (all of them in XXIst century). In the South of the province of Salamanca has been seen several times. The Autonomous Goverment of Castile and León tried to find evidence of it but it just found one Iberian Lynx excrement (confirmed by DNA). In Castile and León too, an Iberian Lynx was seen in the Sierra de la Culebra, Zamora province. Another Iberian Lynx excrement was found on the Autonomous Community of Madrid but, once again, that was all. There are also reports of Iberian Lynx sightings in the North of the province of Cáceres, in Extremadura before re-introduction programs started in the area. For more info:
http://sociedad.elpais.com/sociedad/2012/05/14/actualidad/1337001717_810815.html
www.laopiniondezamora.es/comarcas/2011/02/11/avistado-lince-iberico-culebra/497342.html

There are also 5 centers where Iberian Lynx is breed in captivity. 4 of them are in Andalucía and the fifth one is in Zarza de Granadilla, Cáceres, Extremadura. The aim of those centers is to breed healthy Iberian Lynx in captivity so they can be re-introduced on freedom in suitable habitats. For more info about re-introduction programs:

www.lynxexsitu.es/index.php?id=ing
www.iberlince.eu/index.php/eng/
www.lifelince.org

If you read Spanish, on www.lynxexsitu.es/programa.php you have links to the National Extrategy for Iberian Lynx Conservation and the Action Plan for Captivity Breeding of the Iberian Lynx (both documents are long and in Spanish).

Last month, the Iberian Lynx passed from Critically Endagered to just Endagered on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. For more info: www.iucnredlist.org/news/conservation-successes-overshadowed-by-more-species-declines-iucn-red-list-update

Regarding the return of the Iberian Lynx to the camino francés, I don't think we'll see it soon because none of the areas of Castile and Leon considered susceptible of Iberian Lynx reintroduction are in the CF. For info about those areas: www.diariodeleon.es/noticias/noticiascuriosas/castilla-leon-cuenta-areas-susceptibles-reintroducir-lince-iberico_814952.html

Ok, I wrote too much but didn't answer yet your question about what can you do. I would suggest to get in touch with an organization with programs and campaigns in favour of the Iberian Lynx like, for example, wwf (www.wwf.es) or the above linked Life Lince.

The Iberian Lynx (no snow) is limited to Andalucia.

It isn't limited just to Andalucía. Take a look above for more info.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

So wait wait, someone tells us we need snow for this animal, then we get a dtailed email mentioning super hot areas of Spain as where to find these lovely creatures. Does elevation in Extremadura and Andalucia generate enough cold,for snow?

 

[Oztrekker]

There is a dot around the mountains around leon. Is that the lynx exrement or an actual lynx. From the pattern of confirmed sightings they seem to spread in a band south to north right up spain. Becoming less comon as they get north.

 

[whariwharangi]

It has a beard, and some eye stripes. I said it is descended from an iberian lynx. I did not say it was a pure bred.

Its a domestic cat. We get them here too. One of them that wanders through my yard thinks its descended from a Siberian Tiger. Too much catnip is my guess.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Seems to me when folks start reporting house cats as Lynx, the jackalopes are not far behind. I personally wish Jackalopes were a bit bigger so they could feed more Lynx (kitties) but I guess they are too fast as it is.
For those of you that have not seen a Jackalope Google image.

 

[Mark Lee]

Seems to me when folks start reporting house cats as Lynx, the jackalopes are not far behind. I personally wish Jackalopes were a bit bigger so they could feed more Lynx (kitties) but I guess they are too fast as it is.
For those of you that have not seen a Jackalope Google image.

Jackalopes aren't real? You mean that guy in west Texas was lying all those years ago?
I guess next thing you're gonna tell me is that they pulled a fast one on me when they sent me snipe hunting......

 

[Oztrekker]

Lets be honest the lynx is a handsome cat he gets around. Plus he will certainly be a formidable.

So I am saying that it is not implausible to suggest that some cats are descended from lynx sprog.

The one I posted definetly has a lynx beard. If it had the top ear fur you would be more convinced.

 

[Castilian]

There is a dot around the mountains around leon. Is that the lynx exrement or an actual lynx.

I think you are talking about one of the maps on the first link I provided that shows a blue dot in that area. That map as well as the map on its left represents where there were (supposed to be) Iberian Lynx in the 60's. The map on the left used data from death Iberian Lynx since the 40's. The map on the right (the one that shows the blue dot you quote) is made based on polls to locals made in the 80's asking about the Iberian Lynx... So the blue dot doesn't represent findings of Iberian Lynx excrements and it doesn't represent either confirmed sighting of Iberian Lynx. It just represent reports of locals saying in the 80's they saw it (the Iberian Lynx) back in the 60's (and/or maybe later) but without any further verification and without any further evidence of real presence of Iberian Lynx in the area (i.e.: no finding of excrements, no official sighting of Iberian Lynx, no Iberian Lynx caught of surveillance cameras...).

 

[whariwharangi]

Lets be honest the lynx is a handsome cat he gets around. Plus he will certainly be a formidable.

So I am saying that it is not implausible to suggest that some cats are descended from lynx sprog.

The one I posted definetly has a lynx beard. If it had the top ear fur you would be more convinced.

I guess its not implausible but it seems unlikely.

I'd be more convinced if you had sent a sample of its excrement to the autonomous government of Castile y Leon and had asked them to confirm it by DNA. But all we have is your cat photo and your Darwinesque conjectures.

Facts is what we want and you have none.

 

[Oztrekker]

Well looks like a fact finding camino is in order. Some saliva sample swabs. Look forward to your next camino.

 

[whariwharangi]

Well looks like a fact finding camino is in order. Some saliva sample swabs. Look forward to your next camino.

Thats another matter. If you look at the material provided by Castilian you will find that the Iberian Lynx is found in Andalucia, Extremadura, and Castile la Mancha ... in short; not where the Camino Frances passes.

Besides which I'm not a cat expert and am not at all interested in getting cats (of which they are legion) to provide DNA samples.

 

[Christopher Perry]

The Lynxeseses are probably much more prevelant than the officials declare (they dont particulrly want to be seen). It sounds much like the denials of the wildlife departments in Missouri, Kansas, and Arkansas, here in the US Midwest about the presence of Mountain Lions. Until recently, Despite mauled farm stock, plenty of scat, footprints, and an occasional car kill, they denied the wild presence of these beautiful cats, claiming that they had escaped captivity. They dont now. My friend was recently stalked while visiting and camping at a rural farm in Missouri. He found footprints outside his shelter and tufts of fur on a thorny branch outside his door.

 

[Oztrekker]

Right on christopher the lynx will return to the camino frances

 

[Mark Lee]

I think all domestic cats are descendants of wild cats, just as all dogs are descendants of wild dogs.
I'm sure they all share some percentage of DNA with their wild cousins.
Tons of wild bobcats (similar to a lynx) in Texas. I never saw a house cat that was a cross breed of the two. Not saying that it doesn't happen, but I'm sure it's a rare instance.

 

[whariwharangi]

 

[Oztrekker]

This is an iberian lynx with Alpine camouflage, I would suggest and hope that he has been knocking around the mountains of leon.

Lets just call him, " Score again".

 

[MTtoCamino]

I think all domestic cats are descendants of wild cats, just as all dogs are descendants of wild dogs.
I'm sure they all share some percentage of DNA with their wild cousins.
Tons of wild bobcats (similar to a lynx) in Texas. I never saw a house cat that was a cross breed of the two. Not saying that it doesn't happen, but I'm sure it's a rare instance.

This is why I don't want my dna analyzed I may have a wild cousin... Bigfoot

 

[CaptBuddy]

This is why I don't want my dna analyzed I may have a wild cousin... Bigfoot

Well, MT, if I was related to Mr. Bigfoot, I would likely be found in the vicinity of los chiringuitos between Malaga and Nerja.

 

[MTtoCamino]

This is an iberian lynx with Alpine camouflage, I would suggest and hope that he has been knocking around the mountains of leon.

Lets just call him, " Score again".

View attachment 19922

No matter the variation of a true Lynx they are simply beautiful. It is nice the fur trade has almost stopped as that was really the biggest detriment to all species world wide.
Now I would think it would be cars as the animals are very nocturnal & very shy. As a former trapper in youth I used it as way to make extra money I regret it. So if you have a trap line ask yourself what little you can get for a fur is it worth destroying such a beautiful animal? Don't even attempt a response of you will let them go,as the destruction of tissue will get them anyway.
Keith

 

[whariwharangi]

This is an iberian lynx with Alpine camouflage, I would suggest and hope that he has been knocking around the mountains of leon.

Lets just call him, " Score again".

View attachment 19922

“What are the facts? Again and again and again – what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history” – what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!”

-Robert Heinlein

 

[dougfitz]

“What are the facts? Again and again and again – what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history” – what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!”

-Robert Heinlein

@whariwharangi, how bold! I thought this was a thread started on the basis of a Roy S. Durstine quote 'My mind is made up. Don’t confuse me with the facts.' and we were merely here to provide uninformed support to the OP's views on this matter.

 

[Felice]

“What are the facts? Again and again and again – what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history” – what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!”

-Robert Heinlein

What is a fact? It is no more than something that is currently known to be true. Plenty of facts have been shown to be false over the years as ideas more forward.
And in order to even make a stab at a fact, you first need to make observations.

 

[Felice]

@whariwharangi, how bold! I thought this was a thread started on the basis of a Roy S. Durstine quote 'My mind is made up. Don’t confuse me with the facts.' and we were merely here to provide uninformed support to the OP's views on this matter.

Whatever your thoughts on the lynx on the camino, this thread has been highly informative, thanks to castilian's detailed replies. The above snide remark makes for a sour end to the thread.

 

[dougfitz]

The above snide remark makes for a sour end to the thread.

I'm sorry, but if someone starts a post with a picture of a domestic moggie and a superficial little quiz about the Iberian lynx, one might suspect there is a bit of leg-pulling going on. I suspect @Oztrekker is laughing so much he is at risk of spilling his XXXX.

I am happy for you to treat it as a serious conversation, but let me first tell you about a bridge I have for sale in Sydney...

 

[Biff]

I'm sorry, but if someone starts a post with a picture of a domestic moggie and a superficial little quiz about the Iberian lynx, one might suspect there is a bit of leg-pulling going on. I suspect @Oztrekker is laughing so much he is at risk of spilling his XXXX.

I am happy for you to treat it as a serious conversation, but let me first tell you about a bridge I have for sale in Sydney...

How much??

 

[MendiWalker]

but let me first tell you about a bridge I have for sale in Sydney...

I´m more interested in that Opera House, do you know if that´s for sale?

Btw I think that animal in that photo is more like a saber tooth tiger than a lynx. Don´t you agree ?

Ondo Ibili !

 

[Oztrekker]

If you walk the camino frances, and you see a cat with a white beard, photograph it, or even better get a saliva sample as well.

 

[MendiWalker]

If you walk the camino frances, and you see a cat with a white beard, photograph it, or even better get a saliva sample as well.

As they say in this neck of the woods " Espera sentado." ......... "Sit and wait."

Ondo Ibili !

 

[Castilian]

Right on christopher the lynx will return to the camino frances

What Lynx?
Let's recall in Asturias and other areas of Northern Spain there were Eurasian Lynx (Lynx Lynx)...

P.S.: The area represented by the blue dot on the map I quoted on my previous reply to this read is meant to be (or so I think) the Leonese side of the Ancares (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os_Ancares), an area don't crossed by the Camino Francés. Anyway, if you pay close attention to the blue dot, you'll see it doesn't get as South as to cross the Camino Francés. FWIW, I don't recall a source suggesting presence of the Iberian Lynx on the Camino Francés in the last century but I'm not an expert on the subject...

 

[CaminoDebrita]

laughing my catass off!

 

[whariwharangi]

What is a fact? It is no more than something that is currently known to be true. Plenty of facts have been shown to be false over the years as ideas more forward.
And in order to even make a stab at a fact, you first need to make observations.

The problem is that no one in recent time has observed the Iberian Lynx anywhere near the camino. Fact with observation (or lack thereof)

 

[Tia Valeria]

What Lynx?
Let's recall in Asturias and other areas of Northern Spain there were Eurasian Lynx (Lynx Lynx)...

P.S.: The area represented by the blue dot on the map I quoted on my previous reply to this read is meant to be (or so I think) the Leonese side of the Ancares (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os_Ancares), an area don't crossed by the Camino Francés. Anyway, if you pay close attention to the blue dot, you'll see it doesn't get as South as to cross the Camino Francés. FWIW, I don't recall a source suggesting presence of the Iberian Lynx on the Camino Francés in the last century but I'm not an expert on the subject...

@Castilian - when walking between Ponte Mera and San Andrés de Teixido we saw an animal which we thought could be what we would have called a 'gateau de monte'. Far too large for a domestic cat, pale coloured, and with a bushier dark tail. (It was not a fox). There were no houses anywhere near and it ran off when it saw us. It was just out of photo range. Any ideas what we saw?

 

[Anniesantiago]

Everyone laughed at me a few years ago when I reported HUGE cat tracks in the hills on the Camino Aragones.
They were cougar-sized tracks, and I quickly learned there were no cougars in Spain.

But I know the difference between dog and cat tracks, and this was a VERY large cat - not a house cat.
The hair on the back of my neck raised and I was very alert the rest of that stage.

I don't know about Spain but in the USA, because of dramatic weather changes and loss of habitat and food sources, many wild animals are coming out of the hills in closer to civilization.

I know what I saw.

 

[Anniesantiago]

These sightings were in southern Spain the same year I saw the footprints.
I don't see any snow.
http://punkbirder.webs.com/iberianlynxtripreport.htm

 

[Felice]

The problem is that no one in recent time has observed the Iberian Lynx anywhere near the camino. Fact with observation (or lack thereof)

I never expressed an opinion on the photo, though it does remind me of the feral cats that lived off the rubbish bins where we lived in the middle east.

My comment was a general swipe at people with closed minds. People who dismiss out of hand an amateur's observations because they contradict an 'expert's' opinion. People who slavishly and unthinkingly accept what those in authority say. People who can not even entertain the idea that the established wisdom might need to change. anniesantiago will know what I am talking about.

 

[Mark Lee]

Everyone laughed at me a few years ago when I reported HUGE cat tracks in the hills on the Camino Aragones.
They were cougar-sized tracks, and I quickly learned there were no cougars in Spain.

But I know the difference between dog and cat tracks, and this was a VERY large cat - not a house cat.
The hair on the back of my neck raised and I was very alert the rest of that stage.

I don't know about Spain but in the USA, because of dramatic weather changes and loss of habitat and food sources, many wild animals are coming out of the hills in closer to civilization.

I know what I saw.

I don't think there are any large cats in Spain. The lynx is bigger than the average house-cat, but nothing in the category of a large predatory cat (tigers, lions, cougars, leopards, etc) and certainly not a threat to an adult human.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I don't think there are any large cats in Spain. The lynx is bigger than the average house-cat, but nothing in the category of a large predatory cat (tigers, lions, cougars, leopards, etc) and certainly not a threat to an adult human.

And I don't think it's beyond possibility that a lynx is in the northern mountains of Spain.
Did you read the article?
Did you see the photos?

Southern Spain does have a stressed population of lynx.

Due to disease, the rabbit population, their main food source, is low, and the idea that one or a pair could migrate north looking for food isn't beyond belief for me.
Wild cats, bears, coyotes and foxes are well-known to travel outside their normal range in search of food in the USA.
There's no reason to believe it can't happen anywhere else.

I won't be pulled into an argument. ::shrug::
As I said, I know what I saw.

 

[Kanga]

Ok, OK, lots of different opinions here. I can't see that the discussion is adding much. Let's all pause before hitting the "post reply" button.

 

[whariwharangi]

I never expressed an opinion on the photo, though it does remind me of the feral cats that lived off the rubbish bins where we lived in the middle east.

My comment was a general swipe at people with closed minds. People who dismiss out of hand an amateur's observations because they contradict an 'expert's' opinion. People who slavishly and unthinkingly accept what those in authority say. People who can not even entertain the idea that the established wisdom might need to change. anniesantiago will know what I am talking about.

In the case of the OP we don't even have an amateur's observation.

All the OP has is an active imagination and a picture of a cat that has some characteristics of color and tufts of hair reminiscent of the Iberian Lynx.

Established wisdom might or might not need to change but certainly not on the basis of anything written on this thread.

 

[whariwharangi]

And I don't think it's beyond possibility that a lynx is in the northern mountains of Spain.
Did you read the article?
Did you see the photos?

Southern Spain does have a stressed population of lynx.

Due to disease, the rabbit population, their main food source, is low, and the idea that one or a pair could migrate north looking for food isn't beyond belief for me.
Wild cats, bears, coyotes and foxes are well-known to travel outside their normal range in search of food in the USA.
There's no reason to believe it can't happen anywhere else.

I won't be pulled into an argument. ::shrug::
As I said, I know what I saw.

There are rich idiots who release wild animals imported from elsewhere ... perhaps the prints you saw were caused by such?