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Ibuprofen considerations

Camino(s) past & future
SJPP - Finisterre (2005) ; LePuy - Muxia (2007) ; Porto - SC. (2009) planning Lourdes- SC (2018)
#1

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Unie

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, April 2019
#2

Anamya

Keeping it simple
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015)
Camino Portugues (2017)
Lebaniego (Planning)
#3
Earlier this year there was a very useful topic about this issue.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/ibuprofen-side-effects.52209/

No medication should be taken often without medical advice, even the apparently "harmless" ones. If i take ibuprofen more than two days in a row, I get horrible skin rashes on all my joints. It is a rare reaction, but extremely annoying. As Unie said, it can also affect stomach, or even kidneys.

I actually get shocked when I see people taking ibuprofen pills on the Camino as if they were candies. I once asked a pill-taking pilgrim at dinner "Oh, are you hurt? What happened?" And to my surprise he answered "Nothing really, just a bit tired. But I take it so it does not start hurting." Dude, I'm pretty sure that's NOT how it works...
 

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William Garza

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, The Jakobsweg
#7
Liver toxicity in large doses and long term use.
I am a chronic pain patient, was on 10\5\500 hydrocodone for over a decade, me and dic decided to get off when my liver began to show serious issues.
I still take it on occasion to help me sleep through the 24\7 pain, but thats it.

Besides, me and my amazing metabolism ensure the effects are 3 hrs or less per 500mg x2.

The trade is not worth the cost i think in the long run.

Ill take my C-T-L spinal issues over a dead liver
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF (SJPdP to Santiago) March 15, 2018
#8
Any over the counter or holistic medication should be taken only after speaking about it to your Professional Medical Practitioner. All of our bodies react differently and if you are currently on meds check with your Doctor if you add anything to your routine even if it is a baby aspirin. Added reminder if you are taking something new and you don't have it listed on your travel insurance it could make your insurance void.
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP - Finisterre (2005) ; LePuy - Muxia (2007) ; Porto - SC. (2009) planning Lourdes- SC (2018)
#10
My main reason for posting was because of the assertion that there is a possible increased risk of heart attacks, even after a couple of weeks use. For elderly and vulnerable people it pays to be forewarned, I think, even if the correlations have not been established in a definite manner. Despite long term chronic pain issues from previous accidents and surgery, I am not a pill taker myself and am much more versed in natural therapies and management techniques than medications. Yet, at 62 with some minor angina issues creeping in, I was looking at the evidence for aspirin in emergencies, and came across this and felt it was appropriate to share for people to make up their own mind.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago to Finisterre to Muxia 2013
Camino Frances May 2015
Camino Frances July 2017
#11
Very interesting @LGLG . I resist taking medication if I possibly can and was not happy about taking ibuprofen for the last two weeks of my fist camino when without it or some other pain killer (or more accurately duller) I really wouldn't have been able to go on.

I think one has to take the context of walking the camino into account though. Even if I was, during that two week period, subject to higher risk I was also strengthening my heart through exercise and establishing a healthier way of living. While I couldn't prove it empirically I would suggest that that long term gain was worth the short term risk.

Assessing risk is not easy. For someone with a 0.001% chance of having a heart attack in any given period a 31% increase in risk is irrelevant, for someone with a 10% chance things aren't so clear.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: September 24 - October 31 (2015); February/March (2019)
#13
Here is a link to an article on the British Heart Association’s website addressing this study. It gives a good analysis of the study that can be understood by laypeople. The risk that was found applies to elderly patients who already have heart issues. The risk of NSAIDs in such patients has been known by doctors for a long time. Unfortunately, the news coverage was sensationalized.
 
Camino(s) past & future
April 2017 or Sept 2017
#14
My main reason for posting was because of the assertion that there is a possible increased risk of heart attacks, even after a couple of weeks use. For elderly and vulnerable people it pays to be forewarned, I think, even if the correlations have not been established in a definite manner. Despite long term chronic pain issues from previous accidents and surgery, I am not a pill taker myself and am much more versed in natural therapies and management techniques than medications. Yet, at 62 with some minor angina issues creeping in, I was looking at the evidence for aspirin in emergencies, and came across this and felt it was appropriate to share for people to make up their own mind.
@KGLG thanks for posting this as I see on all these sites people telling others to take ibuprofen for everything. I have arthritis and my doctor gave me vioxx years ago to take. What a wonderful drug, pain was gone but then it was pulled off the market because it was causing heart attacks. Well at 50, I was one of those lucky ones who had a heart attack and now am the proud owner of 4 cardiac stents. Every time I respond about being cautious about taking NSAIDS, and especially if you have cardiac issues or family history of it, I get negative comments about it’s sold over the counter so it’s harmless. It is not harmless and neither is acetaminophen (Tylenol). People be careful. And my cardiac stents and I have done 3 Caminos.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
#15
@KGLG thanks for posting this as I see on all these sites people telling others to take ibuprofen for everything. I have arthritis and my doctor gave me vioxx years ago to take. What a wonderful drug, pain was gone but then it was pulled off the market because it was causing heart attacks. Well at 50, I was one of those lucky ones who had a heart attack and now am the proud owner of 4 cardiac stents. Every time I respond about being cautious about taking NSAIDS, and especially if you have cardiac issues or family history of it, I get negative comments about it’s sold over the counter so it’s harmless. It is not harmless and neither is acetaminophen (Tylenol). People be careful. And my cardiac stents and I have done 3 Caminos.
Yes, you are so right
Each and EVERY medication will have some kind of side effects
Even herbal and "natural" type medications .....such as ginger and cucumin and magnesium ....which by the way I love as they are anti inflammatory.......but even ...as an example...these 3 cannot be taken with certain medications such as anticoagulants....always research interactions with medications and side effects before taking anything
Best wishes
Annette
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ) ,Via San Francesco, Italy (2017 )
Camino Portugese (2018 )
#16
https://www.theguardian.com/society...trictions-study-increased-cardiac-arrest-risk

Having noticed how often Ibuprofen is mentioned in posts as being a readily available panacea to Camino related pains, and how many older people with joint problems (myself included) are walking, I think this article is worth considering.
Adding to the discussion: Ibuprofen may be readily available and generally safe to use, but NOT in the quantities some take it for numerous days. Some pilgrims are taking double doses three-4 times a day PLUS rubbing ibuprofen gel all over themselves. It is toxic at some point, especially if dehydrated, or with other medical issues. My doctor has prescribed a safer, more effective anti-inflammatory that is safe to use with the ibuprofen gel and works well with one morning and one night dose ( or less ) . As a nurse, I highly recommend a visit to one's doctor for medical clearance, to address any concerns, to seek advice to manage aches and pains. It's not one size fits all. ( my other experience is that the ibuprofen given to me at a pharmacy was stronger than we get here over the counter and it was not enteric coated or buffered...so tough on the stomach )
Just stuff to consider :)
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#17
Different people with different metabolisms and different conditions need different pain medication, and there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all solution.

I seem to have a stomach that resists well my need for a daily dose of the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory that's prescribed to me, but whilst it's also strong enough for aspirin, it's not for the above-maximum dose of it that I need to take on the rare occasions when I run out of my prescribed medicine.

Ibuprofen helps too, but again, it's not strong enough for my needs, and the dosage I'd need would also be too much (except as an emergency workaround).

I'm one of the rare people for whom paracetamol has no pain-killing effect (I only suffer the unwelcome side-effects if taken in a large dose), but for most people that can be a good solution in many situations.

Personally, if my chronic pain were low enough that just over-the-counter Ibrupofen were sufficient, I'd use aspirin instead. But that's just me -- what works for me is very unlikely to be helpful to others, though my medicine can be good for emergencies of a non-chronic pain that aspirin or ibuprofen could help with also.

These "medical advice" threads really should carry a doctor's warning -- don't self-medicate situations of chronic pain ; don't advise others how to do so.

If an aspirin or two (or equivalent) isn't enough to reduce the pain, see a doctor. Don't go looking for advice on the internet.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Aug-Sept(2016) SJPDP-Finisterre, July-Aug(2017) SJPDP-Muxia-Finisterre, July-Aug(2018) El Norte
#19
I agree. Nothing wrong with regular infusions of Vino Tinto! As long as you're sober enough to keep walking the next day. :)
Just remember that alcohol and paracetamol/acetaminophen/Tylenol can be a toxic combination.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
#21
Just remember that alcohol and paracetamol/acetaminophen/Tylenol can be a toxic combination.
Hi Trecile,
In 2015 when himself met an Irish "pal" ...they both drowned their walking sorrows on a few...well many beers on 3 occasions ...they were slower than slow the next day....
Blamed it on sore feet.....
Of course it was "the feet" ...not!
Sore heads I think

Well I wasn't about to sooth those heads with anything like paracetamol or ibuprofen....
Let them suffer says I....
Did you say toxic.??

On the other hand!!!
Best wishes
Annette
 
#22
https://www.theguardian.com/society...trictions-study-increased-cardiac-arrest-risk

Having noticed how often Ibuprofen is mentioned in posts as being a readily available panacea to Camino related pains, and how many older people with joint problems (myself included) are walking, I think this article is worth considering.
It can also cause a perforation (or hole) in your stomach. I speak from experience. Not in Spain, but in the US. Needed emergency surgery. Take with food and don't over use.
 

Podie1956

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Plan to walk Primitivo (May 2019)
#23
I'm 62 and hike a lot. I sometimes have knee pain and/or back pain, and I've been to my primary doctor as well as an orthopedic specialist. BOTH of them recommend I take 800 mg of ibuprofen one hour before exercise. So how do you know who to believe?
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
#24
I'm 62 and hike a lot. I sometimes have knee pain and/or back pain, and I've been to my primary doctor as well as an orthopedic specialist. BOTH of them recommend I take 800 mg of ibuprofen one hour before exercise. So how do you know who to believe?
Dear Podie,

800mg!!!

Far too much and I don't care who gave out that information....doctor or not!
Best wishes
Annette
 
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
#25
Dear Podie,

800mg!!!

Far too much and I don't care who gave out that information....doctor or not!
Best wishes
Annette
My son is a doctor. When in pain in Spain this spring (Camino Mosarabe) he said that you can take up to 3 grams of painkillers per day. But if you have an inflammation, Voltaren is much better.
 
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
#26
A specific doctor gives one of his own patients ( of whom he knows the dossier well ) this specific advice.
Again ...sorry to sound as a broken record : do not generalise.
Second hand or internet sourced info regarding medication is looking for disaster waiting to happen.
 

William Garza

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, The Jakobsweg
#27
Santiago is gonna be mad...planted all those flowers and had all those sites and lookouts made...

And all his poor "grinos" are hurting themselves because they are pushing themselves too hard to go see him

Smell the flowers he would say
Say hello to the people along the Way

Your gonna make yourself old and grey...

My Spine doc told me that we have the best shoes, best of everything..but..you dont know how to walk!..i laughed because of my old and worn knees and blasted spine that i dont walk..i kind of lurch along with my neck pointed down.

I can sympathise with the ibuprophin takers..you set your mind to the task and then go do it
Joints,knees and torpedoes be dannged.

Is that a symptom of us as Humanity today?

Does that make us hero\martyrs in our own heads...so that some tangible sacrifice is made and felt?
Or.
Simply a person getting what we want.

My admiration out to those who mearely want to complete the journey any and however they can...but please,dont sacrifice health and well being to complete.

As others have sagely mentioned , a trip to your Primary Care Provider-PCP- can save you trouble later.

Be gentle to yourselves
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
#28
My son is a doctor. When in pain in Spain this spring (Camino Mosarabe) he said that you can take up to 3 grams of painkillers per day. But if you have an inflammation, Voltaren is much better.
Hi Alex
Yes I do agree that voltarol is better generall for more severe pain
I will take ibuprofen myself if needed as it doesn't affect my stomach adversely

I am also aware .......

And I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread ...that ibuprofen is extremely highly addictive ....as is any medication containing codeine (constipation too)
With best wishes alex
Annette
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - central from Oporto (2018 - planned)
#29
I'm 62 and hike a lot. I sometimes have knee pain and/or back pain, and I've been to my primary doctor as well as an orthopedic specialist. BOTH of them recommend I take 800 mg of ibuprofen one hour before exercise. So how do you know who to believe?
If your doctor is giving you advice, I would go with it. If you aren't sure whether to trust the advice, get a second opinion from another doctor (preferably after an examination and they get some medical history from you). Don't take advice of people on the Internet over qualified medical professionals that know your situation better. I say this as someone who thinks he had real problems from ibuprofen. Many people don't.

If you are really concerned, I have two pieces of advice:
1) Take some food with the ibuprofen, even if that means buying that food in advance because the shops/bars/cafes won't be open before you start the day's walk.
2) Try what you doctor suggested a few times at home before you set out on Camino, preferrably a few days in a row. That way, if there are any problems or side effects that appear, you can discuss them with your doctor before you leave.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#30
I'm 62 and hike a lot. I sometimes have knee pain and/or back pain, and I've been to my primary doctor as well as an orthopedic specialist. BOTH of them recommend I take 800 mg of ibuprofen one hour before exercise. So how do you know who to believe?
You believe your doctor who knows about your specific case in detail.
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Via de La Plata (spring, 2019)
#31
Hi Alex
Yes I do agree that voltarol is better generall for more severe pain
I will take ibuprofen myself if needed as it doesn't affect my stomach adversely

I am also aware .......

And I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread ...that ibuprofen is extremely highly addictive ....as is any medication containing codeine (constipation too)
With best wishes alex
Annette
Ibuprofen does not contain codeine and is not addictive.
 
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JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Via de La Plata (spring, 2019)
#32
Here is a link to an article on the British Heart Association’s website addressing this study. It gives a good analysis of the study that can be understood by laypeople. The risk that was found applies to elderly patients who already have heart issues. The risk of NSAIDs in such patients has been known by doctors for a long time. Unfortunately, the news coverage was sensationalized.
Thank you. And thank you for the "correlation does not equal causation" comment.

As an epidemiologist, I get very annoyed by the ill-founded public conclusions from such studies. This was a retrospective study, which means they looked back at people who had taken prescription-strength Ibuprofen for whatever reason and compared them to people who had not. These two populations are not the same for obvious reasons. One group likely had more health problems than the other to begin with. (In a prospective study, usually a medication is given to one group and a placebo is given to a similar group and they are followed forward to see whether there is a difference in health outcomes between the two). And, to make this study even foggier, they didn't even note whether the group who did not use prescription Ibuprofen had, indeed, used Ibuprofen over the counter, even in the same dosages!

The increase in heart attacks in this study occurred in people who already had heart problems or a predisposition to them. People with heart problems are also more likely to have heart attacks when walking long distances than those who do not have heart problems.

Ibuprofen is a very effective non-steroidal pain medication and anti-inflammatory. Taken with food and not more often than recommended, 800 mg. is not too much for many people. You should be aware that, if you are applying topical Ibuprofen (in the form of Voltaren gel), then you should moderate your intake of oral Ibuprofen, because you will be getting a double dose. You should also pay attention to what your body is telling you if you have a lot of pain and take a rest day if you need it.

As an aside: Herbal/holistic/natural remedies are not more likely to be effective, safe, or to have fewer side effects than pharmaceutical remedies. That being said, do what works for you (but please refrain from using any medications that have strong smells when you're sharing an albergue with others.)
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
#33
JillGat,
I never said that ibuprofen contains codeine since it does not!!
I used the words "as is" ...meaning other medications such as codeine
And even though ibuprofen is a non narcotic drug, it can become addictive psychologically ......and as a nurse, I have seen this many times.

I will leave this subject alone now as arguments on this forum are not beneficial to anyone!!
With best wishes to you
Annette
 
Camino(s) past & future
September2016
#34
I am a believer in Advil! I took up to 800 mg on an average day.... and I was told to get the creme, Voltrane(?). I did and rubbed that on the hurting spots and never had a problem.... might be in my genes. My Mom ( who is 88) takes 2 Advil every day and has never had a problem. I guess it depends on the individual. I don’t take Advil unless something is hurting really bad and then I depend on it and it works! Just do what is best for you.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago to Finisterre to Muxia 2013
Camino Frances May 2015
Camino Frances July 2017
#35
JillGat,
I never said that ibuprofen contains codeine since it does not!!
I used the words "as is" ...meaning other medications such as codeine
And even though ibuprofen is a non narcotic drug, it can become addictive psychologically ......and as a nurse, I have seen this many times.

I will leave this subject alone now as arguments on this forum are not beneficial to anyone!!
Also the capital letters JillGat are not necessary as I am....so far....able to read small case!!!
With best wishes to you
Annette
Hi Annette,

In @JillGat 's defence I read your post as I think she did- ie. ibuprofen (as is any drug containing codeine) is extremely highly addictive. Just one of the pitfalls of conversing in type rather than in person, I suffer from the same thing all the time.

You are of course right about the potential psychologically addictive properties of any painkiller, but I think the flamboyance of your "extremely highly" description also would lead the casual reader to think you must be referring to the type of addiction more commonly associated with opiates.

Delighted you're still able to read lower case. Especially when it comes to phone screens, I'm starting to struggle :(

Rob.
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#36
arguments on this forum are not beneficial to anyone!!
That makes a general good practice! I try not to take a "second bite of the apple" on most threads, particularly if it is argument. A second post to inform or clarify is worthwhile, but generally I try to state my case, then be quiet. I confess that I am not always successful.;)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015); Camino Norte/Primitivo (2016); Camino Frances (2017); Le Puy (June 2018)
#37
My son is a doctor. When in pain in Spain this spring (Camino Mosarabe) he said that you can take up to 3 grams of painkillers per day. But if you have an inflammation, Voltaren is much better.
I recently researched Voltaren on Amazon, etc here in the US, but was unable to find it. I thought it was an over the counter drug as someone on the Camino had given me a small tube last year. Anyone know if it's only available in Europe?
 

Unie

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, April 2019
#38
I recently researched Voltaren on Amazon, etc here in the US, but was unable to find it. I thought it was an over the counter drug as someone on the Camino had given me a small tube last year. Anyone know if it's only available in Europe?
It’s over the counter in Australia, perhaps it goes under a different name in the US.
 
Camino(s) past & future
'
#39
I recently researched Voltaren on Amazon, etc here in the US, but was unable to find it. I thought it was an over the counter drug as someone on the Camino had given me a small tube last year. Anyone know if it's only available in Europe?
In the USA, Voltaren Gel is licensed to Endo Pharmaceuticals and it's available on prescription. Don't know about OTC availability in the USA or not. In any case, there are no global rules on whether a pharmaceutical is OTC or not.

http://www.endo.com/endopharma/our-products
 

Canucks

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino frances, SJPDP to Santiago (2013), Le Puy to SJPDP (2014)
#40
Voltaren cream is available in Canada without prescription. Ibuprofen has the same mechanism of action as an anti-inflammatory, which is very useful, rather than just taking as a pain reliever. I use ibuprofen and voltaren cream quite a bit and have had no problems and my doctor has suggested the same as one of the previous posters.......as prophylactic/precautionary use.
It works for my knees and keeps me going.
Please note that I am saying this is for me, and I am not generalizing. But it is also not the case that one can generalize that usage of these medications is bad for everyone.
 

alaskadiver

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017-Camino Primitivo
2019- Invierno
#41
I'm 62 and hike a lot. I sometimes have knee pain and/or back pain, and I've been to my primary doctor as well as an orthopedic specialist. BOTH of them recommend I take 800 mg of ibuprofen one hour before exercise. So how do you know who to believe?
800mg of Ibuprofen is the standard prescription level strength. I've taken that much for severe pain over a few days. To answer your question: Believe your doctors over "doctor wannabes" on the Internet. The average person giving free medical advice probably never even took a college class in Chemistry, Pharmacology, or Biology. Yet everyone is an "expert". Do your own research and discuss your questions with your medical doctor (not the nurses). That's MY advice ;)
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Via de La Plata (spring, 2019)
#42
JillGat,
I never said that ibuprofen contains codeine since it does not!!
I used the words "as is" ...meaning other medications such as codeine
And even though ibuprofen is a non narcotic drug, it can become addictive psychologically ......and as a nurse, I have seen this many times.

I will leave this subject alone now as arguments on this forum are not beneficial to anyone!!
Also the capital letters JillGat are not necessary as I am....so far....able to read small case!!!
With best wishes to you
Annette
Sorry if it seemed I was overreacting. It certainly sounded to me like you were at least equating ibuprofen to codeine - if not suggesting that it contained it - and then before that, you expressed alarm (via three exclamation points) about 800mg of ibuprofen being far too much, which is also untrue in many cases. Doctors prescribe it regularly and it has been well tested. It's just kind of a pet peeve of mine when people post inaccurate medical advice on the internet. After the second or third such post, I start to lose my punctuation and lowercase typing manners.

I apologize.
 

alaskadiver

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017-Camino Primitivo
2019- Invierno
#43
I recently researched Voltaren on Amazon, etc here in the US, but was unable to find it. I thought it was an over the counter drug as someone on the Camino had given me a small tube last year. Anyone know if it's only available in Europe?
It is diclofenac gel in the US. I have a tube of it here at home that was prescribed to me. It's a higher dose than what was available in Spain and yes-prescription only.
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#44
It is diclofenac gel in the US. I have a tube of it here at home that was prescribed to me. It's a higher dose than what was available in Spain and yes-prescription only.
In the USA it is a prescription drug. In Spain some strengths are over-the-counter.

Believe your doctors over "doctor wannabes" on the Internet
Good advice!:) I had a prescription once for 1000mg twice a day. I got a nose bleed that nearly required an ambulance. Know, and be prepared for, known side effects. I use it for camino pain, but each pilgrim needs to make an informed decision. There are alternatives. Some of them have side effects as well. Since primitives discovered plants, humans have been taking drugs. Since salicylates were discovered thousands of years ago, it has been part of our pharmacology. I have heard it said that aspirin would not be approved under current FDA standards, but Bayer put it out 120 years ago, and it is grandfathered in. Low dosage aspirin now is standard in heart care (for better or worse).
 
Camino(s) past & future
SJpdP to Santiago ( Sept-Oct 2018)
#45
As a 58 year old medical person with a dodgy ankle and feet issues "to boot" , I will be toting a daily dose of a one a day NSAID , prescription only , similar risks to diclofenac(Voltaren) , ibuprofen, naproxen etcetera, smaller and lighter at one pill daily. This will be celecoxib as its kindest to my system.

I will also be toting a daily stomach protectant PPI drug (esomeprazole) which will go in with the anti inflammatory. I have had acute stomach ulceration from a single 400mg ibuprofen dose . Yes it happens . My advice is know your own tolerance well before you go and sort it with your medical advisers.

I will likely ALSO use paracetamol as needed , or alternate with celecoxib, (different mode of action and break down system in the body, freely available and safe and works differently with these types of pain), likely in doses up to a max of 4 grams per day.(much heavier and bulkier to carry ) My liver is healthy but if I develop a liking for vino tinto the paracetamol and NSAIDs will be reduced in dose or ceased. My own doctor agrees with these decisions and wants to throw in a few codeine pills as well for when I hit the wall !!

I also have a rub on anti inflammatory lotion with melaleuca and a salicylate. Topicals such as Voltaren gel are a good option if avoiding oral NSAIDs, probably best not combined with them, as there is some systemic absortion into the blood stream and the total dose is unpredictable.

Thats my plan.
 

MeandIan

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
May2018
#46
I'm 62 and hike a lot. I sometimes have knee pain and/or back pain, and I've been to my primary doctor as well as an orthopedic specialist. BOTH of them recommend I take 800 mg of ibuprofen one hour before exercise. So how do you know who to believe?
800 mg is exceptionally high in a single dose. If however, it is taken, please protect the gastric mucosa. And never ever take on an empty stomach!
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Via de La Plata (spring, 2019)
#47
Again, if your medical provider prescribes or advises an 800mg dose, then take that and follow other instructions on the package.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2016
#49
Be careful with all NSAID, they can make arthritis worse by slowing down the healing process. In recent years, there have been numerous scientific papers showing this... https://www.regenexx.com/can-nsaids-make-arthritis-worse/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26564576
An alternate anti inflammatory that actually helps and even promotes healing is curcumin. Here is an interesting study that suggest the helpful effects of the substance...https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20594343
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances
SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia, May 2016
C. Frances, Sept 2017
Via de La Plata (spring, 2019)
#50
Interesting. Curcumin is a compound of tumeric (the spice), which has been used for many centuries in India medicinally for a variety of conditions. Of course, like all natural, herbal medicines, one is never sure what the dosage is when taking the whole herb. The curcumin content of turmeric is not that high (around 3% by weight, I'm reading here). And, by itself, curcumin is poorly absorbed by the body.

But this looks like promising stuff, so I've been reading up on it.

The article cited by Patrick2by4 above talks about "chondrogenic differentiation of mesenchymal stem cells", which - for most of us - is pretty obtuse. Here are a couple of other articles about it that were more readable, at least to me:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12676044

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-turmeric#section3

https://www.supplementhq.com/best-curcumin-supplement/

Rather than just huffing tumeric from my spice cabinet, I'm going to look for
a product that also contains piperine (BioPerine is the trademarked name), which is the substance that enhances curcumin absorption by 2,000%. I think piperine is related to black pepper

Without piperine, most of the curcumin just passes through your digestive tract.

Thanks for this, Patrick2by4
 
Last edited:
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
#51
An alternate anti inflammatory that actually helps and even promotes healing is curcumin. Here is an interesting study that suggest the helpful effects of the substance...https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20594343
Hi Patrick,
Thank you for that article

I did TRY and read it...most of it I did not understand though.......I tend to go for the more simplistic explanations ha ha ...

I did get the message though!
please see my post no 15 on this thread

I'm not sure what make of cucumin is available in your area but I use the one made by Healthspan in the UK
There's also a "Natures Best" company here which has much the same ingredients

I did a lot of online research on this product last year and decided on this make as it uses Bio perine/Piperine which enables the cucumin to be more readily absorbed in the body
I also use the fresh tuber type turmeric which I can grate on food ...hot stuff!
With the cucumin capsules.....I take 1Gram daily which is the maximum recommend as an anti inflammatory

I also buy fresh ginger which is an anti inflammatory and can be grated on or in food and also make a good cup of ginger tea ..usually I have 2 cups a day
Magnesium is also an anti inflammatory which I take

So why all these??

About 18 months ago I tripped over a baby's buggy and landed flat on my patella / knee cap.
Although still able to walk long and hard distances without much trouble , there were times ..usually after a nights sleep, when the pain and burning in my knee was excruciating...don't ask me why as I couldn't figure this out.
At times I almost cried with the pain in the morning and headed for the pain killers

Ibuprofen did help but I knew it was only a short term measure and didn't want to keep swallowing pain killers
Hence my internet search for something else that might help ...came upon these 3 and looked at the actions, side effects and contraindications of these 3 spices/ herbs/ supplements

Started taking all 3 about 9 months ago and guess what? .......pain almost gone apart from a little twinge now and then!

So now......is this transformation due to these things or just natural healing over time?
Who knows.

Another thing and it may not even be connected ....I seem to have bundles of energy since I started taking them ..might be a coincidence though and I won't knock it!!

Now I know that we should be getting all the minerals and vitamins that our body needs from a healthy diet ....but I'm a faddy eater and tend to live on eggs, fish and fruit So in my particular case maybe I need these 3 things

I'm pretty healthy for a nearly 69 year old ...so far..so good....but of course none of us know what's around the corner.
Haven't needed to see the doc for nearly 10 years but I do get a cholesterol test done yearly by phoning the surgery to request it.....again so far, so good

Re the contraindications of these 3 supplements...

Not everyone can take them
Cucumin and ginger are natural "blood thinners" so anyone on anticoagulant therapy should be aware of this ....therefore my husband can't have that lovely ginger tea or the pretty coloured cucumin!
Magnesium can lower blood glucose so diabetics on insulin therapy need to be aware of this

Anyway at the end of the day it's up to each individual to be aware of what they might think is "natural" as there could be nasty interactions....much the same as with prescribed medications and discuss this with ones doctor......or pharmacist....extremely knowledgeable here in the UK as am sure they are everywhere

So again Patrick
Thank you
With best wishes
Annette
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ) ,Via San Francesco, Italy (2017 )
Camino Portugese (2018 )
#52
I'm 62 and hike a lot. I sometimes have knee pain and/or back pain, and I've been to my primary doctor as well as an orthopedic specialist. BOTH of them recommend I take 800 mg of ibuprofen one hour before exercise. So how do you know who to believe?
Relatively certain that your orthopedic specialists has no idea of what walking every single day in extreme conditions does to your body. 800mg is generally given post-surgical procedures or extreme pain these days now that narcotics are being heavily monitored. That amount is tough on any stomach and can reach toxic levels quickly. They don't comprehend the nature of the beast. I would at least call and ask them to address your exact intent and describe the conditions/milage/duress of daily physical exertion. Good luck !
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ) ,Via San Francesco, Italy (2017 )
Camino Portugese (2018 )
#53
I recently researched Voltaren on Amazon, etc here in the US, but was unable to find it. I thought it was an over the counter drug as someone on the Camino had given me a small tube last year. Anyone know if it's only available in Europe?
We cannot get any ibuprofen gel here in the US. There are some that will list all kinds of over the counter gels, and even some alternate prescriptions, but they are NOT what one can get easily in Europe. I've had several docs and pharmacists search for something similar after presenting them with the tube. It's one of the first things I buy on my arrival because I know my knees will need it. If you try it and like it, please know that if you want to bring some home, they will take away any unopened tubes. So, I open both new tubes....lol TSA/customs won't take used/open medications.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2016
#55
Interesting. Curcumin is a compound of tumeric (the spice), which has been used for many centuries in India medicinally for a variety of conditions. Of course, like all natural, herbal medicines, one is never sure what the dosage is when taking the whole herb. The curcumin content of turmeric is not that high (around 3% by weight, I'm reading here). And, by itself, curcumin is poorly absorbed by the body.

But this looks like promising stuff, so I've been reading up on it.

The article cited by Patrick2by4 above talks about "chondrogenic differentiation of mesenchymal stem cells", which - for most of us - is pretty obtuse. Here are a couple of other articles about it that were more readable, at least to me:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12676044

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-turmeric#section3

https://www.supplementhq.com/best-curcumin-supplement/

Rather than just huffing tumeric from my spice cabinet, I'm going to look for
a product that also contains piperine (BioPerine is the trademarked name), which is the substance that enhances curcumin absorption by 2,000%. I think piperine is related to black pepper

Without piperine, most of the curcumin just passes through your digestive tract.

Thanks for this, Patrick2by4
It means Curcumin can help your body regrow cartildge in layman terms.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Aug-Sept(2016) SJPDP-Finisterre, July-Aug(2017) SJPDP-Muxia-Finisterre, July-Aug(2018) El Norte
#56
Does anyone know where I could get turmeric capsules in Santiago?
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Ch. d'Arles: Oloron Ste Marie to Aragones; Frances (2016); V.d.l.P.; Sanabres (2017)
#57
I have revised my vegetarian diet recently to consist, for supper, largely of lentil/garbanzo/mixed vegetables stew, with a generous flavouring of turmeric. I am interested to see why the turmeric seems to help my arthritis, and shall continue to up the quantity gradually, and may add black pepper to enhance the turmeric. Maybe I shall also add some fresh ginger, or make ginger tea. Minimizing the use of NSAIDs seems like a good idea for my sensitive stomach, but walking without something to control painful arthritis is really not an option. Thanks to all who share their knowledge of such matters.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
#58
Does anyone know where I could get turmeric capsules in Santiago?
Hi Trecile,
I did a Google search and saw one that Johnny Walker had recommended in

Calle de Santiago de Guayaquil
15702
Next to the bar Isla
That was back in 2012 though

Maybe a para farmacia might do them
Sorry can't find anything else
Best wishes
Annette
 
Camino(s) past & future
Aug-Sept(2016) SJPDP-Finisterre, July-Aug(2017) SJPDP-Muxia-Finisterre, July-Aug(2018) El Norte
#59
Hi Trecile,
I did a Google search and saw one that Johnny Walker had recommended in

Calle de Santiago de Guayaquil
15702
Next to the bar Isla
That was back in 2012 though

Maybe a para farmacia might do them
Sorry can't find anything else
Best wishes
Annette
Thanks for the suggestions. I'llook tomorrow.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Aug-Sept(2016) SJPDP-Finisterre, July-Aug(2017) SJPDP-Muxia-Finisterre, July-Aug(2018) El Norte
#60
I
I found it at a farmacia on Rúa do Preguntoiro, just down from Praza de Cervantes and the Last Stamp albergue. Look for cúrcuma. They actually had three different brands. 20180807_132319-756x1008.jpg 20180807_125300-1008x756.jpg 20180807_132319-756x1008.jpg 20180807_125300-1008x756.jpg
 

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