Importance of weight

[Antonius Vaessen]

Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear

 

[Tincatinker]

Ah, Antonius - how is your maths? Trusted 'Authorities' state as an empirical rule that you should not carry more than 10 % of your bodyweight. It would seem, following this rule, that should you lose 5k of your mass your backpack only needs to be reduced by 4.5% so your 'ideal' pack-weight reduces from 9k to 8.6k. Solutions to this issue include eating your lunch for breakfast or drinking 2 litres of water before you get out of bed in the morning thereby raising your bodyweight to the proportion of your pack. Seasoned repeat Peregrinos and other sneaky b*ggers pack on as much bodyweight as they can before their camino so that they can pack lots of useless extras in their packs before they set out. (These may all be abandoned at Roncevalles without embarrassment.)

As Newton stated before his n'th camino - every kilogram has an equal and opposite kilogram.

Amigo, if you can walk, comfortably, for twenty - twenty-five - thirty kilometres a day with your pack then the rest of it is bunkum ( English slang for tosh/ nonsense /mis-leading information)

 

[C clearly]

Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.

The math and even the laws of mechanics are a lot simpler than the evaluation and quantification of "importance." It is as important as it feels to your body.

Given the complexity of our bodies and our activities, I'd recommend losing the 5 kg (if you have that excess) rather than not!

 

[J Willhaus]

Actually Antonius,
As you are walking, you will probably find things you can do without along the way so you will find the pack weighs less. (My pack weighed 8 kilos at the start.) We sent things ahead to Santiago at about Santo Domingo (light down coat and a pair of gloves). Then as we were walking and wearing the same 2-3 outfits every other day or so, our shirts began to wear out where the straps from our packs were in contact. I had two of my three shirts wear out (granted they were not new when I started) and I had to replace at least one just past Leon. I also got down to 2 pairs of socks instead of three from washing and wearing and walking holes in one pair. At the very end, we even discarded our boots/shoes as they were worn out and we did not want to have to fly them home. You find by the end you will find that you really have only a few essential items and by then your pack will be lighter than when you started out. After I got home I had only one or two small items that I carried the whole way and never used. One was a lightweight plastic cup and the other was a tiny hand light (the kind you squeeze between your fingers.) I had another tiny map reading light with a red lens that could be clicked on and off, but I was fearful I would lose it so brought a back up. I only used the red light on rare occasions, but I would take it again.
Janet

 

[LesBrass]

I have no knowledge on the laws of mechanics ... and I'm not sure I understand your question fully but my two penneth worth is...

you maybe won't notice a 5kg body weight loss but you would really notice losing 5 kg off your pack weight... but... if you need to lose a few kg I'm pretty sure your body will thank you and your general health will be improved... which will help your walking. And if you can shave 1 or 2 kg off your pack you will notice the difference and be grateful.

On my last Camino I started the walk weighing 25kg less than my first Camino and this made a huge difference to my overall fitness... my pack weighed 2kg less but still felt heavier to start and I groaned when I added 3 litres of water... I really noticed that!

So I lost 25kg but groaned at having to carry 3kg more... does this help or hinder your research?

 

[C clearly]

So I lost 25kg but groaned at having to carry 3kg more... does this help or hinder your research?

Good point!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Never mind the silly 10% "rule". There is no reason to bring more than 8kg of stuff, including rain gear, period. And what ever wright you shed before going will be a bonus. Stick tne the strict minimum while having what is needed to be comfortable and voila. There are many threads where we went through people's pavking lists with great pleasure. Look some of them up while on the treadmill!

 

[Mark Lee]

Why so complicated?
Isn't it just plain easier and faster to haul a 5 kilo sack of corn over a distance as opposed to a 10 kilo sack?
Or....why carry the 10 kilo sack of corn, if you only need 5 kilos to grind that day?

 

[Kanga]

@Antonius Vaessen you have walked the Via de la Plata and the Sanabrés, so over 1000km. What does your experience tell you?

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo.

When you wear a pack you are going to stress your body. If you take off 5 kg of body weight your legs, knees, ankles and feet will get less stress. Your lower back some also if you you lose the weight in belly fat. But your pack will still stress your shoulders, lower back and hips (if you're wearing a hip belt.) Take the same weight from the pack and there will be less stress everywhere.

 

[jpflavin1]

Although it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo body weight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. (NO)

If you are using 10% as a guideline and you weigh 90 Kilo's, a good pack weight would be 9 kg's.

Weight is important, imo. If you want to answer your question seriously, just add 5 kg's to your pack weight on a practice walk and post your conclusion.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[JasonHayes]

I may have been naive or plain stupid but I started with 30 kg and made to Santiago with a 30 kg pack. Don't worry too much about pack weight. Worry more about what you take that will make your Camino more personal. It is not a competitive race with every gram vital to success but you will be fitter by the end whatever you carry.
And yes I am a Tasmanian (any Australians will understand that).

 

[m108]

my math is a little different (despite the fact that I teach math) - if my muscles are accustomed to wear some weight (me) - numbers prefer not to mention - and then reduces weight before starting Camino - I wore a backpack easier, because I am accustomed to more
and now really: I think 10kg it's a lot . Always wear 6kg and never miss anything

 

[Marion-SantiagoInLove]

The 10% rule makes sense if applied to a health body weight. Otherwise it means the heavier the body, the heavier the "allowed" weigh of the pack will be. Which is completely silly... But even then it's only an indication.

Being overweight means that whatever the weight of the pack is, it will be too heavy. With the complications that goes with it regarding articulations and such.
There are only 2 good news about it: 1) the body is already accustomed to wear an heavy load and 2) like @m108 said, whenever losing weight, you'll wear the load with more ease because you were accustomed to more.
I think point #1 is not to be disregarded, as a problem pilgrims get comes from having to carry a load they're not used to suddenly... People are able to carry a lot when trained! (Thinking of Sherpas here) Of course, it doesn't mean it's a good thing to carry too much if it can be avoided.

Then I also agree with @Rick of Rick and Peg, the difference between the body weight and the pack weigh is in their distribution on the body. They certainly don't affect it the same way, and so have different consequences. On of which may be that despite whatever pure math may tell, the biological and mechanical feel would be different... But in both case, positive if going lighter!

Whatsoever, the lighter, the better!
Buen light Camino!

 

[LesBrass]

I may have been naive or plain stupid but I started with 30 kg and made to Santiago with a 30 kg pack.

30kg?! Crikey?! One of my PA speakers weights 18kg and it's not easy to cart around at a gig... I cant imagine carrying 30kg? All I can say is that they must build them strong in Tasmania?!

p.s. you're little one doesnt look 30kg

 

[JasonHayes]

30kg?! Crikey?! One of my PA speakers weights 18kg and it's not easy to cart around at a gig... I cant imagine carrying 30kg? All I can say is that they must build them strong in Tasmania?!

p.s. you're little one doesnt look 30kg

No she was about 13 kg.
If I ever looked like complaining about carrying her, her mother would have reminded me of how long she had carried her 24 hours a day.
The same day we left St Jean an American was carrying 40 kg of books to a school in Pamplona.

 

[Kitsambler]

An awful lot has to do with your physical condition, core strength and cardio. Then add in what you train for. A sedentary 70-year-old will find X kilos uncomfortable, while a college athlete walking during summer vacation would be comfortable with twice or three-times that. One can increase the comfortable weight through training (ramp up the weight you are carrying on your training walks).

This is an entirely different point from the "you don't need to carry it, so never carry over 7 kgs etc etc" discussion.

 

[Mark Lee]

When you wear a pack you are going to stress your body. If you take off 5 kg of body weight your legs, knees, ankles and feet will get less stress. Your lower back some also if you you lose the weight in belly fat. But your pack will still stress your shoulders, lower back and hips (if you're wearing a hip belt.) Take the same weight from the pack and there will be less stress everywhere.

Good point.
I would say to anyone planning walking a Camino, if you are overweight, lose the pounds/kilos before you start it. Don't depend on walking the Camino to do that for you.

 

[dougfitz]

Good point.
I would say to anyone planning walking a Camino, if you are overweight, lose the pounds/kilos before you start it. Don't depend on walking the Camino to do that for you.

@Mark Lee, this might not be the only sensible post here in this thread, but it does stand out from the pack of folk lore, urban myth and just plain nonsense (albeit, I detected just the faintest glimpse of humour in one or two posts). So let me add to the nonsense!!

First, there are no trusted authorities for any 10% rule, unless endless repetition to the point of folkloric status counts. Nor is there really any justification for a view that one should only need to carry x kg, or a pack of y li in volume. For a traceable view of this, I like the advice regarding weight given by Colin Fletcher and Chip Rawlins in The Complete Walker IV. That is

The maximum for backpacking as an enjoyment is perhaps one-third of body weight. A well-conditioned body can handle more if necessary ... A reasonable load would be one-fourth or one-fifth of body weight. Unbearable Lightness would kick in down around one-eighth.

Noting that these authors use from the skin out (FSO) measures, and they also acknowledge that pack weights vary by season, I have estimated that the the lower limit of their guidance (one fifth of body weight) is roughly equivalent, in summer, in Spain, to a bare pack weight of around 10% of body weight.

Second, it is important to understand what body weight you are going to use. As your acute observation hints at, some of us are not the lithe and superbly fit specimens we might think we are. The ravages of time have not always dealt well with one or both of these! There is little science, but a lot of observation in my next remark. The weight you should use for any pack weight calculations should be your ideal walking weight, and unless there are significant extenuating factors, this should never be more than what your weight would be if you had a body mass index of 25 (I call this the BMI=25 point). Spending all day in a gym or being a muscle bound front row rugby forward or the American football equivalent might count as extenuating circumstances.

So, unless you are underweight already, it is probably best to ignore @Tincatinker's earlier, mischievous, suggestion to bulk up. You would be better off taking @Mark Lee's advice and losing weight.

Finally, what does that look like in numbers. If you are 1.75 m tall, your BMI=25 weight is around 76 kg. If, due to the ravages of time you are now obese (BMI>30) you would need to lose at least 15 kg to bring your actual weight down to your ideal walking weight. That might be difficult, and you might need a plan of several months duration to do that safely. I can probably find a source for this, but safe body weight reduction is about 2 kg a month. You are clearly unlikely to get that amount of weight reduction from adjusting the contents of your pack.

For the OP, my conclusions from this is both body and pack weight count: but

1. if you are overweight or obese, reducing body weight is a better strategy to reducing your overall total walking weight;
2. walking with less weight, whether it is body weight, pack weight or worn items is always better;
3. noting that rules of thumb, weight limits etc are so much folk lore, and the captured wisdom might only apply to a very small range of circumstances, eg only be applicable for a summer camino, and no earthly use otherwise.

 

[Antonius Vaessen]

Thanks everybody for your anders. Perhaps I should have made Clearer that the answers for me petsonally were not that important. I walked my caminos with a backpack that weighed about 8 kilos (without water) and my weight is 85 kilo. I had nog problems at Alliander.
I asked these questions purely based on curiosity. The question formulated in other words would be: how strong are the effects of losing bodyweight in comparison with lowering the weight of your backpack. (Intuiitively I would think that the importance of minimizing your backpack is a big overrated)
In your answers I foundation some food for thought, thanks again

 

[Stivandrer]

I have a problem staying too light, as I think some of the safety issues stuff need to be included.
A small first aid kit, an emergency bivvy bag, sensible layers for both hot and cold weathers, my own breakfast and enough water, to name a few.
As I prefer to walk alone, safety is an issue with me, so 5,5 kilo will never be the weight of my pack!!

BUT, actually this is were the walking poles come in; did you know that if and when you are using the poles effectively, your arms will rest on the poles, and in fact save the 2 X 5 kilo they weigh...
It might not even out the burden of the rucksack entirely, but it does help !!

 

[t2andreo]

This is one of those lose-lose dialogs, which we continually have. I have come to believe that there is no "correct" answer to the question. The right weight for you to carry is that weight at which you can tote what you need to accomplish your Camino, and which does not harm your body by dint of having to carry it for a month or more.

So, is the correct target pack weight 10%, 12%, 15%, who can say. There are too many variables IMHO to have a single correct answer. That is why many of use adopt the 10% rule, use it as a goal, and work upwards from there.

From experience, I found out that less than the 10% amount was simply not doable for me. I cannot get my pack under about 12 Kg, regardless of what tricks I try. However, in 2015, I did manage to get it to 10kg, but only because I was walking only 10 days from Porto to Santiago staying in hostals and hotels, and enjoying warm weather.

So all extraneous gear was mailed down the road to Ivar to hold for my arrival. I reduced to wearing the only pair of trousers I carried and wandered about in one of the two boxer shorts I had when I was forced to wash the trousers. Instead of my customary two, plus one changes of shirt, socks and boxers, I cut it to one plus one. I consider that "going commando." I do not encourage people who walk a month-long Camino to dip below two plus one changes (total three), and a second pair of trousers.

I have found, over time, that the only sound way for me to reduce my overall pack weight was to continually shop for lighter fabrics and resulting items. Every incremental gram of savings adds up. I also learned to rigorously apply the "rule" that every item must have at least two discrete uses rule to justify carrying or wearing something. That really relegated several kilos to the "surplus to needs" category.

I hope this helps.

 

[Stivandrer]

I agree on most of your points, I carry the same amount of weight....

 

[Kanga]

A lot depends on the comfort of your load carrying system. On the Norte I easily carried 14 kilos divided between my backpack and two front balance packs. If I put all that weight into a backpack it would be too much for me. A good harness with equal distribution of weight, including onto hips, helps enormously.
I've seen much heavier loads carried on sleigh systems. And wheels, of course. There was a reason civilisation advanced with that little development.

 

[JabbaPapa]

The so-called "10% rule" is nonsense -- particular as it applies to weight loss or gain from muscle and/or fat gain or loss.

Aiming towards about 6-9-ish kilos can certainly be a good idea, or less if do-able, but really you need to carry what you do need and not to carry what you don't. This cannot be determined by charts or algorithms or formulas or physical mechanics.

It is more likely to be determined by certain personal health issues, personal needs and preferences, seasonal variations, strength or slightness of body frame, and various other unknowns, that you and you alone, perhaps with some inspiration from places like this one but also from those who know you more personally, will eventually determine.

One good test, albeit more impressionistic -- if you have trouble holding up your pack in one hand with your arm raised vertically, it's too heavy ; if it feels uncomfortable to do that, it's very likely to be too heavy. This will vary from person to person.

Finally -- I'd advise you to take at least one object that you don't need, just for yourself, and for personal reasons, to help you along the Way.

 

[marbuck]

Ignore the pack Nazi's. Carry what you are comfortable with.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

some of use are not the lithe and superbly fit specimens we might think we are.

Surely you jest. Next you will say that we are not the sexual magnets we once were. Heresy.

 

[Ian T]

Ha

I spent many many years as a Royal Marines Commando, many many years carrying far too much on my back for far to many miles year after year, totally loved it.

I joined at 6' 2 " - left after all those years at 5' 8". Didn't do me any harm!!!

Just carry what you can surely that has to be the best approach, and totally agree if you go into something untrained, not ready and unfit, it just gotta hurt some more.

Not sure about the sexual magnet, me hair is disappearing.

Only 9 sleeps till the big man arrives.

 

[Mark Lee]

Surely you jest. Next you will say that we are not the sexual magnets we once were. Heresy.

A couple years back I was at a dive shop in Asia arranging a scuba dive and renting the equipment. My PADI certification card with my photo on it is the same one I got in the 1980's when I was in my mid-20's. The young lady working at the shop doing the paperwork and such for the dive and equipment rental looked at the card and the photo and said she would have liked to have met the guy in the photo. Sigh....
ha ha

 

[Tigger]

Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear

@Kanga invited me to join her next Camino adventure a few months ago and with a combination of training and altered diet I seem to have lost 5-6kgs from my 70 kg frame. ( I am 170cm tall )
It amuses me that by April when we leave, I will have lost my proposed pack weight!

 

[Kanga]

Don't worry @Tigger - I'll load you up with the blister kit.

 

[Ian T]

@Tigger won't need a thing cos -

The wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is Tiggers are wonderful things
Their tops are made out of rubber
Their bottoms are made out of springs

Theyre bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy
Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!
But the most wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is @Tigger is the only one, @Tigger is the only one

 

[NavyBlue]

My 2 cents :
1 - The "rule" means that a "moderate" increase of your total weight (body + bag) will have no significant impact on your body (feet, legs, hips, breathing etc.). Looks to make sense.
2 - Why 10%? Feedback from experience, or kind of magic number? Just like any progress plan submitted to your manager which should yield at least 10%? Probably widely adopted and repeated because simple and not too far from common sense.
3 - Body weight vs. pack weight : body weight is (more or less) spread over your body frame and close to your center of gravity. Does not pull on straps as a pack will do. So, kg for kg, easier to carry than a pack. But weight excess is detrimental to your health in the long run.
4 - Losing body weight and lightening your pack are not correlated. So don't chose, do both.
5 - A 10 kg pack means a lot of room for improvement. Stick to the 1 on / 1 spare garment (1 + 2 for socks) principle, no sleeping bag, limit electronics and toiletries and you will be far below.
6 - As mentioned by other contributors, all weights are not made equal : a kg in your shoes has to be lifted at every step - 200 g more for a better pack are a good investment - so are 400 g for walking sticks etc. But a third pair of trousers "just in case" is more of a dead weight.

 

[Calvin & Hobbes]

Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear

Antonius,

I obsessed about weight prior to my Camino this year. I read about the 10% rule. I thought it was from the skin out (FSO), meaning to include everything I was wearing. Shortly before I started, I read, I believe from one of the moderators, that up to 20% FSO is suitable (maybe 10% carried?). My experience is that it depends largely on your fitness. If you're not in good shape, any weight might be too much. If you're in good shape, a little extra shouldn't be an issue. I left a few things behind, including a camera, to save a few ounces. I thought I could rely on my phone, but the quality just wasn't very good. I'd take a small separate camera if I went again (not an SLR). I probably carried 13-14% of my weight at the end.

I am not a fitness nut, but I did prepare. I started hiking a mountain near me with my backpack a couple of times a week - only about 7 km, but it is pretty rugged. I bike in warm weather. I play volleyball 2-3 times per week, so I was pretty fit. I don't think a little extra weight would have bothered me. I actually added weight during the Camino, as I had to buy a few items: rain jacket (it turns out the one I took wasn't waterproof), headlamp (I didn't think I'd be walking in the dark), and a daypack as I had to ship my main pack ahead a few days due to an injury.

I had no blisters. I attribute this to following the advice for lubing my feet and wearing sock liners with good socks and well broken-in shoes along with conditioning, primarily from playing volleyball. Many folks I talked with had blisters at some point.

So, in short, evaluate your level of fitness as part of your weight limitation. I saw pilgrims who started with no conditioning. They didn't last long and suffered. Even with conditioning, the Camino can take it's toll. So be careful to pace yourself. I allowed plenty of time, as I'm retired.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Look, most people are not remotely attempting to answer the original question, which is actually very interesting.
But neither am I.
I copped it when I posted Newtonian ramblings once before, and I'm not game to risk it again.
That said, I'm sure it must apply if you're on a bike. End of post.

Well, maybe not. ...Did anyone understand the Tasmanian contribution? I didn't, and I'm Australian; (sort of).

 

[Lynda t]

Ah, Antonius - how is your maths? Trusted 'Authorities' state as an empirical rule that you should not carry more than 10 % of your bodyweight. It would seem, following this rule, that should you lose 5k of your mass your backpack only needs to be reduced by 4.5% so your 'ideal' pack-weight reduces from 9k to 8.6k. Solutions to this issue include eating your lunch for breakfast or drinking 2 litres of water before you get out of bed in the morning thereby raising your bodyweight to the proportion of your pack. Seasoned repeat Peregrinos and other sneaky b*ggers pack on as much bodyweight as they can before their camino so that they can pack lots of useless extras in their packs before they set out. (These may all be abandoned at Roncevalles without embarrassment.)

As Newton stated before his n'th camino - every kilogram has an equal and opposite kilogram.

Amigo, if you can walk, comfortably, for twenty - twenty-five - thirty kilometres a day with your pack then the rest of it is bunkum ( English slang for tosh/ nonsense /mis-leading information)

Ha, I don't need to add weight before my camino. It's already there. A moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips. Have a great Christmas everyone.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

most people are not remotely attempting to answer the original question

A pound is a pound for foot stress and energy consumption. A split pack like an Aarn causes less load fatigue. Lose a pound and you can add a pound to your backpack. A backpack without structure (GoLite and others) causes the most muscle strain and soreness. The addition of a hip belt by the U.S. Army resulted in a massive decrease in discomfort and injury. Carrying a pack uses muscles that are not used in unburdened walking, but the overall consumption of energy is a function of total weight. Pack weight not carried close to the body's center of gravity will require measurably more energy.

 

[Lynda t]

@Tigger won't need a thing cos -

The wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is Tiggers are wonderful things
Their tops are made out of rubber
Their bottoms are made out of springs

Theyre bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy
Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!
But the most wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is @Tigger is the only one, @Tigger is the only one

Nutter

 

[Lynda t]

Don't buy a large back pack. The bigger the pack, the more you will try to put in it. Less is more. Top up enroute for any forgotten 'necessities '!

 

[Former member 2537]

Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear

Actually it's more complicated than the simplistic 10% rule. This is much more accurate:

BP wt= {0.095Body wt * BMI^2/3 - air temperature (deg K) at 10:00 AM - .013*mean uphill m/km slope (radians) + .5*mean downhill m/km slope (radians) + .09pi^e}

 

[C clearly]

Actually it's more complicated than the simplistic 10% rule. This is much more accurate:

BP wt= {0.095Body wt * BMI^2/3 - air temperature (deg K) at 10:00 AM - .013*mean uphill m/km slope (radians) + .5*mean downhill m/km slope (radians) + .09pi^e}

Quite reasonable as far as it goes. But why doesn't it account for non-trivial varables such as fitness and caffeine levels?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I thought it was:

Predictive Equation for Estimating The Energy Cost of Walking and Running with Backpack Loads

Energy Cost of Loaded Walking
Mw = N (W+L) (2.3 + 0,32(V-2.5) 1 .65 + G (0.2+0.07(V-2.5)))

Energy Cost of Standing and Walking Slowly With and Without Loads
Mw = 1.5W+2(W+L) (L/W) 2 + N(W+L)(.,5V2 + o.35VG)

Energy Cost of Running With and Without Backpack Loads
Mr = Mw -0.5(1-0.01L) (Mw - 15L - 850)

Symbols:
Mw = Metabolic Cost of Walking (Watts)
Mr = Metabolic Cost of Running (Watts)
W = Subject Weight (kg)
L = Load Carried (kg)
N = Terrain Factor
V = Walking Velocity (m/sec)
G' = Slope or Grade (%)

 

[Oregon's Mark]

Actually Antonius,
As you are walking, you will probably find things you can do without along the way so you will find the pack weighs less. (My pack weighed 8 kilos at the start.) We sent things ahead to Santiago at about Santo Domingo (light down coat and a pair of gloves). Then as we were walking and wearing the same 2-3 outfits every other day or so, our shirts began to wear out where the straps from our packs were in contact. I had two of my three shirts wear out (granted they were not new when I started) and I had to replace at least one just past Leon. I also got down to 2 pairs of socks instead of three from washing and wearing and walking holes in one pair. At the very end, we even discarded our boots/shoes as they were worn out and we did not want to have to fly them home. You find by the end you will find that you really have only a few essential items and by then your pack will be lighter than when you started out. After I got home I had only one or two small items that I carried the whole way and never used. One was a lightweight plastic cup and the other was a tiny hand light (the kind you squeeze between your fingers.) I had another tiny map reading light with a red lens that could be clicked on and off, but I was fearful I would lose it so brought a back up. I only used the red light on rare occasions, but I would take it again.
Janet

I plan to start in late May, next Spring. How was your weather? Mud? Sleeping bag or sleep sack? How cool was it first thing in the morning?
I'm not familiar with the red light. Is it for reading at night in the dorm? A great benefit of walking at this time of year is the long days---no need to walk before daylight, right?

 

[jpflavin1]

I plan to start in late May, next Spring. How was your weather? Mud? Sleeping bag or sleep sack? How cool was it first thing in the morning?
I'm not familiar with the red light. Is it for reading at night in the dorm? A great benefit of walking at this time of year is the long days---no need to walk before daylight, right?

Mark:

You will still have cool mornings in the mountains. If you plan to stay in Albergues, I would bring a light weight sleeping bag. If not, probably unnecessary. The red light is for night use (reading, going to bathroom etc.) as it is less bothersome to others.

Imo, it is not necessary to walk before sunrise or after sunset. Others will have a different opinion. I have never walked in the dark.

Weather is weather, very unpredictable. It will likely range from 40F or 4C in the morning (mountains) to 85F or 30'sC during day on the Meseta. You will pass through a variety of topography over the month and the weather will also vary. You will have rain, so therefore mud at some time.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[Mark Lee]

I plan to start in late May, next Spring. How was your weather? Mud? Sleeping bag or sleep sack? How cool was it first thing in the morning?
I'm not familiar with the red light. Is it for reading at night in the dorm? A great benefit of walking at this time of year is the long days---no need to walk before daylight, right?

In 2014 I walked the CF starting the beginning of June. Since you are starting in late May, I suppose most of your walk will be during June.
Weather was nice. Total of about 35-36 days on the CF and it rained on me only twice. Wore shorts everyday and a t-shirt, but some long pants and a fleece pullover or equivalent comes in handy in the evenings when it cools down. Cool in the mornings, but never really cold and warms up quick and if you bundle up you will soon find yourself stopping to peel off layers. I had a long sleeved tech shirt to wear while walking for the cooler mornings.
Didn't bring a sleeping bag or a liner. Used blankets from the albergues if I got cold, but in retrospect a liner would have been nice to have.
I had a small flashlight, but never used it. Never walked in the dark. Earliest I would walk was right at sunrise.

 

[Martin Cole]

Amigo, if you can walk, comfortably, for twenty - twenty-five - thirty kilometres a day with your pack then the rest of it is bunkum ( English slang for tosh/ nonsense /mis-leading information)[/QUOTE]

Finally at the end you said it all, just walk your walk, I am 60kg carry 12kg and have no problem on two and a half caminos, whatever you are comfy with, I practiced with baked beans and other cans of food and just got on with it, I am happy to start a day with a few peanuts, oranges and bananas for me and my mates. Broke my back 3 years ago but walked the last two years, just get on with it.... and have fun, Martin

 

[Ian T]

I thought it was:

Predictive Equation for Estimating The Energy Cost of Walking and Running with Backpack Loads

Energy Cost of Loaded Walking
Mw = N (W+L) (2.3 + 0,32(V-2.5) 1 .65 + G (0.2+0.07(V-2.5)))

Energy Cost of Standing and Walking Slowly With and Without Loads
Mw = 1.5W+2(W+L) (L/W) 2 + N(W+L)(.,5V2 + o.35VG)

Energy Cost of Running With and Without Backpack Loads
Mr = Mw -0.5(1-0.01L) (Mw - 15L - 850)

Symbols:
Mw = Metabolic Cost of Walking (Watts)
Mr = Metabolic Cost of Running (Watts)
W = Subject Weight (kg)
L = Load Carried (kg)
N = Terrain Factor
V = Walking Velocity (m/sec)
G' = Slope or Grade (%)

Ha that is exactly what I was thinking

Great minds eh

 

[Jose J. Martinez]

I carried 11 kg on my April 2016 CF and did not complain. I was weighing 85 kg. Lost 5 kg during the Camino. I do think my wife and I took too much with us and next year we will slim down on what we are taking. Mainly less units of underwear and socks. Everything will be nylon or synthetic so it will dry fast (overnight). Our expendable supplies will be bought along the way instead of bringing with us enough for the whole trip. Therefore we foresee backpacks with less weight... maybe 8 kg.

Re Calories and weight: I walk a lot and can say that I burn--according to my Garmin 220 watch, 62 Calories per km. One kg of body weight 7,700 calories, therefore to lose 1 kg of body weight one must walk ---- 7,700 / 62 = 124 km

 

[Jose J. Martinez]

And, of course, not one calorie of food would need to pass your lips for that weight loss to occur over that particular 124 km.

Jimmy, that is an example... A human needs about 2000 to 2500 Cal just to exist on a daily basis... Calories lost are deficits... so my 62 Cal per km are spent calories... to lower weight I must decrease the intake of calories and increase the expense of Calories. I do want to make it clear that sometimes the intake of food along the Camino is less than one is accustomed to.

 

[JasonHayes]

Look, most people are not remotely attempting to answer the original question, which is actually very interesting.
But neither am I.
I copped it when I posted Newtonian ramblings once before, and I'm not game to risk it again.
That said, I'm sure it must apply if you're on a bike. End of post.

Well, maybe not. ...Did anyone understand the Tasmanian contribution? I didn't, and I'm Australian; (sort of).[/QUOTE2 headed Tasmanians

 

[Tigger]

@Tigger won't need a thing cos -

The wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is Tiggers are wonderful things
Their tops are made out of rubber
Their bottoms are made out of springs

Theyre bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy
Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!
But the most wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is @Tigger is the only one, @Tigger is the only one

Tigger: Well, I gotta go now. I’ve got a lotta bouncin’ to do! Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! T-T-F-N: ta-ta for now!

 

[Ian T]

By jingo Tiggs you is on the money.

Go Tiggs Go

 

[JasonHayes]

eyeore, eyeore says that

 

[Tigger]

By jingo Tiggs you is on the money.

Go Tiggs Go

Remember, Tiggers Don't Like Haycorns!

 

[Tigger]

eyeore, eyeore says that

“We can’t all and some of us don’t. That’s all there is to it.”
~ (Eeyore), A.A. Milne

 

[Ian T]

But I know what they do like

Tigger: Honey! Oh, boy, honey! That's what tiggers like best!

Winnie the Pooh: I was afraid of that.

Tigger: Mmm. Oh, say.

Tigger: Yyyyyuck! Tiggers don't like honey!

Winnie the Pooh: But you said you that you liked...

Tigger: Yeah, that icky, sticky stuff is only fit for "heffalumps" and "woozles."

Winnie the Pooh: You mean elephants and weasels.

Tigger: That's what I said, "heffalumps" and "woozles".

 

[JasonHayes]

“We can’t all and some of us don’t. That’s all there is to it.”
~ (Eeyore), A.A. Milne

Okay then. I'll just wander along the Camino by myself. It didn't matter anyway. Maybe I'll find an empty albergue . but that doesn't matter either, I'll just stay here.

 

[Kanga]

Okay then. I'll just wander along the Camino by myself. It didn't matter anyway. Maybe I'll find an empty albergue . but that doesn't matter either, I'll just stay here.

Eeyore's Gloomy Place: Rather Boggy and Sad?

This thread seems to have strayed a long, long way from pack weight. I think we can safely assume that Eeyore would never be happy with his.

 

[Ian T]

Cor blimey Tiggs - we is busted

 

[Tigger]

Cor blimey Tiggs - we is busted

'pauses for thought for a nanosecond ( of which I am certain A.A.Milne knew nothing) then

bounce bounce bounce....T-T-F-N

 

[Margaret staggs]

Hav

Thanks everybody for your anders. Perhaps I should have made Clearer that the answers for me petsonally were not that important. I walked my caminos with a backpack that weighed about 8 kilos (without water) and my weight is 85 kilo. I had nog problems at Alliander.
I asked these questions purely based on curiosity. The question formulated in other words would be: how strong are the effects of losing bodyweight in comparison with lowering the weight of your backpack. (Intuiitively I would think that the importance of minimizing your backpack is a big overrated)
In your answers I foundation some food for thought, thanks again

I have worked with some top sports performers and development programms and been shown some research re cycling considering benefits from upgrading bikes used in cross training and competition to lighter versus dropping body weight by even a few grams and the graph showed a crossover point where the better quality, lighter, more expensive bike stopped being good value and a half kilo or 200 or 50 grams off the riders weight was far more efficient in performance. This would apply to the pack weight issue also. As stated by others, military data is around re weights in packs but note this is all usually on BMIs 21-25 with muscle to fat ratio with emphasis on upper body not common in hikers and with weight distribution to hip belts carrying items as well as the front of the pack straps for some and pack frames for ruggedness and not just hiking AND skewed in age 20-45 only. I have seen many spinal surgeries in 30 yr olds and double hip replacements on military aged 45yrs from cumulative weight bearing effects. The military performance is not a lifestyle threshold to emulate in my mind.

From my practice, the bang for effort would be start with 10% guide in kg of the BMI for your height around 25 and lift and carry for 5k at 4k per hour min. Change weights in pack or the strength (hopefully also BMI) in body until acheivable. If pack needs to increase some grams or kilos to carry what you want then all good if 4k per hour for 6 hrs a day, for 5 continuous days can be done without musculoskeletal over strain. My gut feel is as BMI moves past 28 the pack weight will remain close to the 10% of the BMI 25 and the angle of taper will also show a relationship to post age 50ish due to muscle mass capacity.

 

[whariwharangi]

Allthough it is not a major question for me, I've been wondering about it some time. The question is this:
If my own weight for instance is 90 kilos and my backpack is 10 kilos. If I lose 5 kilo bodyweight, would that have the same effect as lowering the weight of my backpack to 5 kilo. Or will the last effect be much stronger.
In percentage: total weight diminishes with 5 %, weight of backpack diminishes with 50 %. The effect of diminishing the weight in your backpack in percentage will be between 5 and 50 %. Can anybody with more knowledge of the laws of mechanics(?) tell more about how to estimate the importance of lowering the weight of your backpack.
I hope my question is clear

If you lose 5 Kg it would not have the same effect as losing 5Kg of pack weight. A lot of it is about distribution of weight on your body. That's why a pack with a hip belt and frame that distributes pack weight to your hips rather than your shoulders is important.