IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off APRIL 2013

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Navarricano. Firstly, sympathies. Recover quickly.

Secondly, I'm probably the only person on this forum who is disappointed with your weather update. I've decided not to book my flight as by the time I get to SJPdP most of the snow will likely be gone. :cry:

I'll book a fortnight next January instead!

Cheers.

 

[sergeantmajormammy]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

The good news here is that the snow line will be well above the altitude of the valley at Roncesvalles until next Wednesday, when it is expected to drop to 800 meters. However, the temperatures are not expected to hit 0ºC, so that should prevent any accumulation in the valleys between Roncesvalles and Zubiri.

So bring your wet gear, your gaiters and your walking poles for slick trails. You'll get muddy, but you can stay off the roads now. Buen Camino!

Navarricano - hope you get better soon - sore thing!

Your comment on the 800 meters and 0 degrees - are you suggesting there that it may snow again late next week? Please tell me I have misinterpreted you - and thanks for all the help from you and the other experienced weather-folk on this forum.

 

[SalvationJane]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

My best to you, Navarricano, and many thanks for the many updates. I happen to be starting my walk on Wednesday, and will be packing my gaiters because of your good advice.

I look forward to Easter Vigil in Pamplona!

 

[scubajunky]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I'm arriving tomorrow and looking to start walking on Sunday. How are the conditions at the moment ? Will the Napolean route be doable ?is it looking like rain all next week ?

 

[CJ Williams]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I'm arriving tomorrow and looking to start walking on Sunday. How are the conditions at the moment ? Will the Napolean route be doable ?is it looking like rain all next week ?

It is raining at present in Roncesvalles and the surrounding mountains. The forecast for Sunday calls rain as well, with the possibility of snow above 1300m. The Col de Lepoeder is above the snow line on the Route Napoleon(1,410) meters. On Sunday you will likely encounter very cold temperatures rain and snow if you go that way. My personal advice would be the Valcarlos route on Sunday.

The body of a Canadian pilgrim was found on the Route Napoleon this morning. I posted about this elsewhere on the Camino Frances forum. All the details are not yet in, but it appears that he slipped off a steep embankment on the route several days ago. It is not yet clear whether he became ill, disoriented because of bad weather or what. In my opinion, it is still imprudent to take the Route Napoleon at this time. The weather in the mountains is very changeable and unpredictable, even in summer, and it has been very bad up there all this winter. There is still some snow up there on the heights.

My personal feeling is that you ought to consider starting from Roncesvalles instead of St. Jean Pied-de-Port, or taking the Valcarlos route if you do decide to go to St. Jean Pied-de-Port. The folks at the albergue in St. Jean will also be able to help you assess the situation should you choose to start there. Please consult with them and take their advice very seriously if you do.

God bless!

 

[SalvationJane]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

My personal feeling is that you ought to consider starting from Roncesvalles instead of St. Jean Pied-de-Port, or taking the Valcarlos route if you do decide to go to St. Jean Pied-de-Port. The folks at the albergue in St. Jean will also be able to help you assess the situation should you choose to start there. Please consult with them and take their advice very seriously if you do.

God bless!

I will definitely be taking their advice, and acting as conservatively and carefully as possible. Even if I need to reroute to San Sebastian and bus down to Pamplona, it will still be a good pilgrimage.

My prayers for the soul of the lost pilgrim, and to his/her family. God hold them all closely.

 

[cloosh]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

So sad to hear of the Canadian pilgrim whose body was found today on the Napoleon way. My thoughts go out to his family and friends.
I too am Canadian and will begin my travels from SJPP in two weeks, and hope to cross on the Napoleon Way.
I am well acquainted with the problems of traveling mountains in the winter and how easily it is to become disoriented in a white out, or how quickly moving through wind, cold and snow can fatigue an individual.
There have been, from good friends on this site, many voluntary precise and accurate updates on this site concerning the Napoleon Way for over a month, and I understand, pilgrims are advised in SJPP before they set out, as to impending weather conditions.
People, take care and heed those who know better of local conditions, for the love of your family, yourself, and those who try and find you when lost.
May the good Lord look after this pilgrim and his family and friend.

 

[yogaflowjo]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Hi Navarricano

My friend and our two 14 year old sons (mothers and sons) are planning to begin our Camino from SJPP next Monday 1st April, 2013. We have a bed booked at Orisson that evening, with the intention of heading off Tuesday 2nd April... any updates on the weather for us?? Thanks, Jo :?

 

[Deleted member 12253]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I think you should read about " pilgrim dies on camino near Roncesvalles" listen to experts in st. Jpded I will be starting on 18th but as an experienced walker will take the lower route, unlesss weather improves, sad about the death, ar dheis de go raibh a anam naofa, ie. may he rest in peace, Buen camino to all pilgrims.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

It will be difficult to honestly analyze the pilgrim death without being incredibly insensitive. Ten Koreans have had to be rescued this year, but they were lucky that they had little more than hypothermia. They all set out against the advice of the Pilgrim Office. We will never know what motivated the Canadian, and his death is very sad. Even those who have trained in cold climates, such as Canada and New Hampshire, need to be wary of weather in unfamiliar surroundings. The advice from the Pilgrim Office is based on years of experience, and probably is the best advice available. Ignoring it can be perilous.

"Closing the Napolean Route" has never been done, but I will not be surprised if authorities take sterner actions in the future to protect pilgrims with an excess of hubris. A death is a real damper on the concept of a pilgrimage, and devastating to the family of the deceased who were expecting a joyful outcome. R.I.P.

 

[Olivares]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Navarricano--- you and Ivar may have save lives with this post(s). The latest casualty (Canadian Pilgrim) was walking the route that weeks ago you warned NOT to even attempt. I sincerely doubt that this person would not had been warned about it. The day prior to starting at SJPDP I listened attentively to a volunteer at the Office of the Pilgrim who provided instructions on how to handle possible fog and thunderstorms-- and this was May! I mentioned about groups before because there is safety in numbers. On that first day, try to keep an eye for each other. Buen Camino!

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Wise words and observation Falcon.

But I bet even if they put a barrier up across the route there would still be some who would duck under it or pull it to one side.

Still, if the barrier is there the authorities can say, we could do no more.

While it is true that there is some safety in numbers there can also be danger. If the majority say, let's do it, it can take real courage to say, no. The majority is not always right.

 

[hyalinejim]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Walked from SJPP to Roncesvalles today on the Valcarlos route. Having walked the Napoleon before, I can say this way is also beautiful. There is relatively little walking on busy roads, although today is Sunday so I imagine roads are quieter.

After Valcarlos there are 3 off road detours. The furst two of these are not affected by snow and are very pleasant, if slightly mucky in places. The final detour to the pass at Ibaneta has 6 inches to 1 foot of snow on the ground. It is slippery and you must walk close to a sheer drop that is protected by a barbed wire fence that has collapsed in places. It is the least beautiful of the 3 detours after Valcarlos. It is slow going, slightly dangerous, and I recommend you take the road instead.

I heard of some people who walked the Napoleon today. One individual said he regretted it. I imagine it is quite easy to simply walk off the edge. The snow is waist deep. Please heed the warnings of the pilgrim office and go via Valcarlos, where you can have a very tasty lunch!

Buen camino.

 

[CJ Williams]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I posted a thread about the pilgrim who died several days ago crossing from St. Jean Pied-de-Port to Roncesvalles via the Route Napoleon elsewhere on the Camino Francés forum. Please take a moment to read what I posted there if you are still waffling about the Valcarlos Route vs. the Route Napoleon.

I want to reiterate in no uncertain terms what I have been saying for weeks, and to second hyalinejim's experience and advice: please, please, please, if you are determined to set out from St. Jean Pied-de-Port in the next few weeks, pay attention to the weather and follow the advice of the hospitaleros and staff in St. Jean Pied-de-Port. If they tell you not to go over the mountain, then don't do it!

Re: the pilgrim who died. It is clear from the small map showing where the body was discovered that appeared in an article in yesterday's Diario de Navarra newspaper that the pilgrim, upon reaching the Lepoeder hill on the route, became disoriented because everything was covered in snow. He could not follow the markings easily and he headed off in the wrong direction, ending up on a very dangerous cliff, where he slipped and fell into the gorge.

This really upsets me. Please pray for his soul, and for his family. And don't risk your lives, or risk putting your families and friends through this anguish. Please.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Two questions:

1) How is the weather on the VDLP right now, beginning in the south?

2) Does this excess of snow mean flooding in the spring anywhere along the Camino, in experienced Spanish persons' opinion?

 

[piogaw]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Hi anniesantiago,

I have just finished the camino de la plata, arriving in santiago the 14th of march. I don't know the current weather situation now. Here is what i have encountered. Weather is pretty good until zamora. Most of these stages i was walking with a short sleeved base layer and a light weight fleece. I actually did not need the fleece except to protect myself from sunburn. Temperature normally start from 3 degrees in the early morning to around 12-16 degrees on in the day. Nights can be a bit chilly. I usually put on my light weight lined jacket.

I did not encountered any snow until a day before zamora. This was closed to the end of february. There was a light dusting of snow. However after zamora the weather started to change, starting from light wind to heavy gusty wind that can blow you off your feet, especially in a gudina. Also the rain started to get very heavy as i approached galicia. One of the days, there was hail, sleet, snow, rain andthen sunshine north of zamora. From mombuey on, it rains heavily and continuously everyday until two days before santiago, then the sun came out welcoming me to santiago. However upon reaching santiago, it was raining for two days until i left for salamanca.

This year, the weather has been unexpectedly bad as compared tolast year.

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

This is posted on the web and should be taken note of:-

Penalty" for imprudence

This news appeared mid February (2013) in local papers in Navarra (translation of some highlights by L'EdC; source: http://www.caminodesantiago.me):


"Navarra charges for rescues caused by imprudence

In the last week of January five Korean pilgrims were rescued from the Izandorre shelter (on the Route Napoléon, between the Fontaine de Roland and the Col de Lepoeder - L’EdC). Now they have to pay 1,500 Euros to cover costs of that the operation by the Navarre Emergency Agency (ANE). The five young men had ignored several warnings of local people to not continue through the forest because of the hard wind and the snow (at some places more than 70 centimeters).

ANE spokesmen said that each future case will be studied separately and explained that by "imprudence" is understood: "recklessly disregarding weather alerts" or "not being properly equipped in a particular context." (for example: insufficient protection against the cold and/or rain - L’EdC)."

We think this measure is appropriate. We know of too many examples of situations in which poorly equipped pilgrims have chosen the "Route Napoleon", although they had been strongly advised not to do so given the weather forecast. People seem to not realize that they not only endanger themselves, but also those who ultimately have to rescue them. Moreover, Spain is currently under severe budget cuts and therefore the costs of such rescues - in fact unnecessary - should be reimbursed.

On the other hand, we hope that people who really are in danger are not deterred from calling 112 because of the possibility of a "fine”. Your life is priceless!

It has obviously been posted on the forum before but it really does need to be taken seriously especially after the recent death.

 

[pat.holland]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

thanks to all those who have been advising pilgrims re the weather and the route. I am bringing a small group to start from St. Jean on Easter Sunday. I have been over the Pyrenees twice before and am used to snow etc but will be not be taking chances with the group. We have accommodation booked in Hounto where I have stayed twice before, it gives a head start the following morning.
So here is the issue, if we stay at Hounto and find the following morning that there is no point in going any further up, which would you advise, go back down to St. Jean and walk to Roncesvalles or try to cut across westwards to the main road to Vancarlos. I have had a good look at various maps and aerial photos and I can see a route, I think,along various minor roads. This would bring us down to the main road about half way between St. Jean and Vancarlos. Has anyone done this route?
best wishes and Buen Camino to all
Pat.Holland

 

[CJ Williams]

Re: Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

thanks to all those who have been advising pilgrims re the weather and the route. I am bringing a small group to start from St. Jean on Easter Sunday. I have been over the Pyrenees twice before and am used to snow etc but will be not be taking chances with the group. We have accommodation booked in Hounto where I have stayed twice before, it gives a head start the following morning.
So here is the issue, if we stay at Hounto and find the following morning that there is no point in going any further up, which would you advise, go back down to St. Jean and walk to Roncesvalles or try to cut across westwards to the main road to Vancarlos. I have had a good look at various maps and aerial photos and I can see a route, I think,along various minor roads. This would bring us down to the main road about half way between St. Jean and Vancarlos. Has anyone done this route?
best wishes and Buen Camino to all
Pat.Holland

Hi Pat!

The fact that you have no direct, personal experience of walking the route you think you see means you should go back to St. Jean. At this time of year, with the weather we're still having, NO ADVENTURES. The weather is still nasty here in Navarra, and the possibility of snow is predicted for next week. If you are responsible for this group, then in no uncertain terms should you risk their physical safety. Do not put them at risk.

I have felt, time and time again over the past few weeks, like I am an old worry wart, stomping on people's Camino dreams, but I am not. We lost the Brazilian/Canadian pilgrim last week. LOST HIM. Please be prudent. Please. And listen to the advice of the folks in the pilgrim office in St. Jean, and take it very,very seriously. God bless and buen camino.

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Very, very wise words. You are not being an old worry wart. There is much need to be careful with these weather conditions.

 

[tyrrek]

Re: Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I have felt, time and time again over the past few weeks, like I am an old worry wart, stomping on people's Camino dreams, but I am not.

Not at all, Navarricano. The up to date information you've given has been invaluable in allowing people to make safe, sensible choices, and enjoy rather than endure the start of their Caminos. Buen Camino!

 

[billbennettoz]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Navarricano, I will be departing SJPP on April 10th. I, like many others, have been following your posts closely. I am very grateful for the advice and information you are providing. You could not be stating your position more clearly, in that anyone considering using the Route Napoleon needs to heed the advice from the Pilgrim's Office, and from experienced locals.

You are providing us with an invaluable resource, thank you.

 

[cloosh]

Re: Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I have felt, time and time again over the past few weeks, like I am an old worry wart, stomping on people's Camino dreams, but I am not.

Not at all, Navarricano. The up to date information you've given has been invaluable in allowing people to make safe, sensible choices, and enjoy rather than endure the start of their Caminos. Buen Camino!

Ditto with the last comment Navirricano. I have been watching this thread from when you first posted with the initial warning. I will be guided by your words without question. Keep up the good work for all others who read your comments. I for one find this thread invaluable.
Neil.

 

[Laliibeans]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I agree with the above comments. Even though my family won't start our Camino until next year this thread is really helping to decide on our start date and be prepared for inclement weather. Next year is a long way off, but with my mum's hips and my foot problems, as well as having my young niece with us, thanks to this thread we have decided that our initial plan to start in early april might be changed so we're playing ti safe.

As tyrrek said: "Enjoy rather than endure."

 

[annakappa]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I have felt, time and time again over the past few weeks, like I am an old worry wart, stomping on people's Camino dreams, but I am not.

Not at all, Navarricano. The up to date information you've given has been invaluable in allowing people to make safe, sensible choices, and enjoy rather than endure the start of their Caminos. Buen Camino!

I STILL cannot understand the wish for people to even consider starting SJPP, at least for all those potential Pilgrims that land in Madrid and then illogically waste time and money to get over the Pyrenees, only to find unfavorable weather. Is it some sort of glory " yes, I walked over the Pyrenees"?
For note: the carton tube that you can buy at the Pilgrim's office in Santiago traces the Way from Roncesvalles onwards! Anne

 

[tyrrek]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

[quote="annakappa]For note: the carton tube that you can buy at the Pilgrim's office in Santiago traces the Way from Roncesvalles onwards! Anne[/quote]
Yes, I bought a t-shirt in Santiago listing the major towns you pass through and that list started in Roncesvalles too! From a British point of view it is easy and relatively cheap to start in SJPP (thanks to Ryanair), but as recent events have shown that is not the only consideration. Buen Camino!

 

[Striderc8]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Navarricano wrote:
I have felt, time and time again over the past few weeks, like I am an old worry wart, stomping on people's Camino dreams, but I am not

Not at all Navarricano, your information is invaluable. Thank you so much.

I am leaving my home tomorrow and whilst I actually want to start in Roncesvalles, my train from Paris chucks me out at Bayonne so I'll need to go via SJPP. I have no desire to walk along busy main roads in bad weather even on the Valcarlos route so, hoping the taxis run over Easter, I intend to pick up provisions in SJPP, taxi to Roncesvalles and enjoy Easter Mass before setting off. Without sound advice on this forum I would still be dithering..

 

[tyrrek]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Hmmm. Dither a little longer Strider! The Valcarlos route along the road isn't that busy or dangerous IF you take the appropriate precautions (high visibility, walking single file and high awareness). You might make friends who you'd like to walk with even before you get to SJPP, so it would be a shame to lose them by moving on straight away. From what I remember it's only really beyond Valcarlos that you hit a significant road, so maybe you could walk that far, and then taxi to Roncesvalles if you're uncomfortable with the road (and increasing altitude) beyond. As has been repeated on this thread just take advice.

It would be great to have an Easter Mass to start your Camino, though, I must admit.

Muy Buen Camino!

 

[annakappa]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Yes, I bought a t-shirt in Santiago listing the major towns you pass through and that list started in Roncesvalles too! From a British point of view it is easy and relatively cheap to start in SJPP (thanks to Ryanair), but as recent events have shown that is not the only consideration. Buen Camino!

u
Agreed tyrrek, for those Pilgrims arriving from N. Europe, it's as easy to start in SJPP, but for those arriving in Spain,to then go to SJPP, especially in the bad weather months, just seems completely illogical to me. ( my opinion, of course)! Anne

 

[tyrrek]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

...but for those arriving in Spain,to then go to SJPP, especially in the bad weather months, just seems completely illogical to me. ( my opinion, of course)! Anne

Sure, Anne. I'm not disagreeing. I've posted elsewhere on this forum that my last Frances started in Pamplona and I didn't feel that I'd missed very much. Buen Camino!

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I STILL cannot understand the wish for people to even consider starting SJPP, at least for all those potential Pilgrims that land in Madrid and then illogically waste time and money to get over the Pyrenees, only to find unfavorable weather. Is it some sort of glory " yes, I walked over the Pyrenees"?

Fighting talk Anna.

Some of us have a sense of the history of the Camino and the satisfaction of knowing that we walked from SJPP.

There is no Glory to this, just the beauty of the mountains, the quietness of being alone and starting to ease our way into that mystical experience that is known as The Way.

In the Pyrenees the boundary between the earth and heaven is just a bit thinner.

I like the physical challenge of the mountains and, in truth, physical tiredness is part of the gateway to a deeper spiritual experience.

But then I'm just a boring old mystic who lives in a multi dimensional universe. A bit crazy too I guess, but I'm happy.

However, if we meet sometime on the Camino we can have a great discussion about this over wine and a meal. You're paying of course. :wink:

ps If I wasn't arriving on a Sunday getting to SJPP from Bilbao would not have been a problem nor expensive. I love travelling across Spain in a bus seeing parts of it that otherwise I would not see.

 

[Sagalouts]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

arriving in Spain,to then go to SJPP, especially in the bad weather months, just seems completely illogical to me. ( my opinion, of course)! Anne[/quote]

I find it strange Anne that you are now advising not starting in SJPdP having started there yourself how many times now??
very sad to read about the Pilgrim who died in the snow,but I feel we need to put things in perspective,I believe that only 2 people have died this way in the last 25 years with thousands walking .heck your more likely to get hit by a bus/car in Pamplona.
how many miles do we walk with traffic just inches away at anytime
its too easy to dwell on the negatives.
I start in SJPdP next week(3rd time) and will be making an informed decision on the spot and this includes Navarricano's advise who I'm sure won't mind me being the odd person who thinks he's a worry wart :wink:
Ian

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Two dead. That seems fair for the impatience of not waiting a day or two. Of course, there were ten Koreans who almost died this year. Maybe that would cross the line into unacceptable.

 

[Thengel1]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I started watching this thread with mild curiosity a couple of weeks ago, but as I sit here in Toulouse, only 4 days prior to starting my Camino, I find taking a more practical interest.

Currently, I have reservations for Orrison for my first night ( the only reservations of any kind I have after leaving SJPDP.). If the high road looks to be impassable and not likely to change within a day of leaving SJPDP, then clearly I will cancel the reservation at Orrison and take the low road.

However, the question remains of what to do if the I end going to Orrison only to discover it is not safe to continue. According to the map, there is a road a little ways past Orrison that would connect back to the Valcarlos route. Would this be a viable option?

 

[whariwharangi]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I am noticing that there are a lot of people asking about weather conditions because they plan to start in a week or two.

Mountain travel means that you won't be able to make decisions about weather until the day of. Even then you need to be prepared for it changing during the day.

The advice I got from the Pilgrims office on my start day was that the weather was expected to be okay. I encountered rain that blew sideways for a couple of hours.

 

[annakappa]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

arriving in Spain,to then go to SJPP, especially in the bad weather months, just seems completely illogical to me. ( my opinion, of course)! Anne

I find it strange Anne that you are now advising not starting in SJPdP having started there yourself how many times now??
very sad to read about the Pilgrim who died in the snow,but I feel we need to put things in perspective,I believe that only 2 people have died this way in the last 25 years with thousands walking :wink:
Ian[/quote]
No Ian, we have always started in Roncesvalles, and last year in Jaca. We land in Madrid, being our super direct connection from our part of the world. Although we don't beat the Auzzies with their giant jet-lag, we do have a very long flight, plus 8 hours jet lag, plus our, now over 70's age. I have never considered getting myself to SJPP, and take off first day with a possibly long stiff walk back into Spain and ending up with who knows what as regards to knees, feet, etc! I prefer to try to go slow at the beginning. And if I can't see the view for bad weather, what really was it worth?
In Trabadelo in 2009 we met the Dutch father whose son died of hypothermia between SJPP and Roncesvalles. The father took on his son's Camino from the spot where he died ( there is a memorial mark there) and was walking for him to Santiago. ( reminiscent of the Way)??!! But real life this time! Ian, Buen Camino - will you write a Blog again? Anne

 

[Sagalouts]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Sorry Anna
memo to oneself "don't post late at night" I got you mixed up with Mspah (elderly moment) and yes I will be Blogging from the start and will try to post some picks and on the ground weather reports.
Ian

 

[Jochen-Schmidtke]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

However, the question remains of what to do if the I end going to Orrison only to discover it is not safe to continue. According to the map, there is a road a little ways past Orrison that would connect back to the Valcarlos route. Would this be a viable option?

Yes, that makes sense. The hospitaleros of the albergue Orrison will warn you if the Route Napoléon is unsafe. So you can change to the safe route.
A buen and a safe Camino
Jochen

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Anna I understand where you come from but my thinking would be.

I do not have to walk the Pyernees in one go. I will stop at Valcarlos having arrived there slowly.

(I intend to do this at the end of April. I may be 56 but I am no longer as well as a person of my age should be so I have to be sensible and split the journey into two).

Given the expense of crossing the Atlantic and transport from Madrid, the cost of getting to SJPP would be proportionatley small to the overall cost.

But that's me.

 

[Icacos]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Some of us have a sense of the history of the Camino and the satisfaction of knowing that we walked from SJPP.

There is no Glory to this, just the beauty of the mountains, the quietness of being alone and starting to ease our way into that mystical experience that is known as The Way.

In the Pyrenees the boundary between the earth and heaven is just a bit thinner.

I like the physical challenge of the mountains and, in truth, physical tiredness is part of the gateway to a deeper spiritual experience.

My sentiments exactly, methodist.pilgrim.98. Besides, I recently heard (don't know if it is true) that it was Spain's great architect Antoni Gaudi who said that it is in the forest that one feels closer to God. The mountains are where I expect to find the forest.

 

[max44]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I am starting on the 12/13th from SJPDP. Being an experienced mountain trekker and medical rescue team member, I would still be taking local information into account. As we should. Perhaps, the focus on taking the absolute minimum, ie wear one wash one, has been putting people at risk. Layering of clothing, emergency equipment, GPS etc may seem to be a waste to many,dare i say it, summer trekkers.
Having been a helicopter rescue senior medical person myself, for many years, I do hope the government doesnt make a blanket ban on trekking over the top. Thus including those who travel minimalist with those who have the experience to trek. I have seen these government bans in many places, which is such a shame, however, I do understand it. I know it costs tens of thousands for our rescue team on a short rescue.

It is my humble opinion that, with the focus on carrying uber-light packs, minimalist clothing and trying to go from SJPDP to Roncevalles, day one, and a large uphill start....this would be taxing for anyone. The focus on the "one day" trip over the top and weight VS common sense needs to be put into perspective. Even a trip to the Himalayan base camp is treated with more respect.
I have read newspaper articles about such bans or charging for rescues etc. Perhaps a minimal equipment and clothing guide, as is the case elsewhere in the world.
Homework, such as following a thread such as this, exchanging emails with past travelers and talking to the "locals" at the time of intended travel are a must. For those who contribute to this thread and the O.P. I thank you for assisting in my safe journey.

Just as a side note, I have seen a few "youtube" movies where people have gone so far as to record their last will and testament(removed from the video). And what did they carry...two shirts, no sleeping bag, no emergency equipment, 1L of water and no food. Yes they escaped hypothermia by luck more than good planning.

 

[jpflavin1]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I do not believe the governing bodies would shut down the Napoleon route. They would just like folks to listen to the locals in regards to the safety of taking this route In Winter or dangerous conditions. If you choose to ignore warnings and cross during these times, you risk injury or death. Should you require assistance, there will be a financial price to pay.

There is no good reason to ignore a dangerous situation. Given there are so many options on where to start the Frances, it makes no sense putting oneself or others who come to rescue you in danger.

Anyone expecting to be walking through a forest all day will be disappointed. There are very few trees on the French side. This allows for the spectacular views. Once you get into Spain, you are in the woods to Roncesvalles.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[CJ Williams]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Hello all,

Forgive me for not responding until now to the messages directed to me two days ago in response to my last post. With Holy Week and the beginning of the Easter Triduum I has my attention elsewhere, but I have not forgotten about the members of this forum. Be assured that all of you are in my prayers during these days.

I was just up in Roncesvalles yesterday evening. More about that in a moment, but first a personal note.

Thanks to all who offered the words of encouragement above. I appreciate them. You can see from the date beneath my profile image that I have been registered on Camino forums for three years. Until this year, however, I have posted relatively little. I was mostly a "lurker" until a month or so ago, and that was mostly because of negative experiences I had had in the past on a different, non-Camino related forum, where people used the anonymity of screen names and safe distance afforded by the forum to just be downright nasty to others who expressed opinions contrary to their own. So I was a bit reluctant to get involved in that sort of thing again, but I am very happy that I made the decision to be more active on the boards here, especially in light of the recent tragedy and the outpouring of concern for the Brazilian/Canadian pilgrim and his family by everyone here.

Now for Roncesvalles. A friend and I drove up yesterday afternoon in order to attend Good Friday liturgy at the Colegiata. It was a wonderful, solemn liturgy presided by the new prior of the church, who was appointed by the archbishop just two months ago. I counted about 30 or so pilgrims amongst the locals and folks from Pamplona and the surrounding area for Good Friday who made the trip up to be there for Good Friday. Afterwards I got a chance to visit the cloister. The snow in the cloister is still piled almost as high as the tops of the arches of the arcade surrounding the cloister courtyard! It was quite cold and raining heavily all evening, but the forecast for more snow has, for the moment, been changed and rain is all that is forecast for the coming days. However...

On our way up, once we crossed the pass at Mezkiritz (after Espinal, where you cross the highway and enter into the beech grove), there were still large patches of snow in the pastures and on the slopes of the surrounding mountains. The top of the mountains behind the Colegiata of Roncesvalles were shrouded in thick fog so I could not see them, but I have no doubt that depsite the warming temperatures down below in the valley and the rain, the conditions up top continue to be dangerous. Yes, the pilgrim's office is still advising the Valcarlos route.

If you're starting this week, expect cold and wet. Spring will still be some time in arriving in the north of Navarra it seems. Bring your gaiters, your walking poles, your wet weather gear and take the advice of so many others on this thread who have provided such good information about high-tech trekking shirts and such, and protecting yourselves from hypothermia.

God bless, buen Camino and Happy Easter!

 

[Lored]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Hey there, I've been following this thread for a while now and thought it was about time to ask this question seeing as a friend and I will be heading out to start our Camino on the 9th of April.

We've planned on starting from SJPP from the get-go, but with the weather conditions, we have no problems moving ahead to a different starting point if needed. We already have transportation booked to get us into SJPP, from there I figure we'll check with all the relevant sources to see if starting their is advisable or not. I'm already leaning towards moving on even if it clears up a bit, I figure there's no point in taking any unnecessary risks. However, will there be any reliable forms of transportation to get from SJPP to Roncesvalles or even further along to Pamplona if that does turn out being the case?

I'd appreciate any information on the subject anyone is willing to share, thanks!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

The bus between Pamplona and SJPdP stops operating on April 7, so it will not be of use to you!

 

[CJ Williams]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Hey there, I've been following this thread for a while now and thought it was about time to ask this question seeing as a friend and I will be heading out to start our Camino on the 9th of April.

We've planned on starting from SJPP from the get-go, but with the weather conditions, we have no problems moving ahead to a different starting point if needed. We already have transportation booked to get us into SJPP, from there I figure we'll check with all the relevant sources to see if starting their is advisable or not. I'm already leaning towards moving on even if it clears up a bit, I figure there's no point in taking any unnecessary risks. However, will there be any reliable forms of transportation to get from SJPP to Roncesvalles or even further along to Pamplona if that does turn out being the case?

I'd appreciate any information on the subject anyone is willing to share, thanks!

Hi Lored,

Do you speak French? If you do, your best bet is to get in touch with the BUREAU DE L’ACCUEIL PELERINS in St. Jean Pied-de-Port. The office provides detailed information on the Camino, including maps, profiles of the different stages, credentials, transportation, and lodging for pilgrims. They can provide you precise information as to the services available between St. Jean Pied-de-Port and Roncesvalles. Their contact information is as follows:

BUREAU DE L’ACCUEIL PELERINS
39, rue de la Citadelle
64220 ST JEAN PIED DE PORT
Tél: +33 05-59-37-05-09.
E-mail: caminopa@hotmail.com or pelerin@compostelle.fr

There are at least four taxi companies operating from St. Jean Pied-de-Port. When there is no bus service, your only option is to use one of them. Again, you can consult with the pilgrim's office in St. Jean, but here are the local telephone numbers just in case.

*Taxi Goenaga: 05-59-37-05-00 ou 06-85-91-49-35
*Taxi de l’Ergaray: 05.59.37.23.30 ou 06.12.64.79.83
*Taxi Harguindeguy: 05-59-37-23-48 ou 05-59-37-05-70
*Taxi Nafarroa ( bagages et pèlerins ): 06.75.78.36.23 ou 05.59.49.10.17

The country code for France is 33.

The distance between St. Jean Pied-de-Port and Roncesvalles is about 28 kilometers via Valcarlos and takes approximately 25 minutes. Taxi Harguindeguy above indicates that the fare for a one-way journey ranges from 1.66€ - 2.24€ per kilometer. The rate will vary depending on the time of day and whether or not you are travelling on a weekday or a weekend or holiday. The estimated cost of the journey I found when consulting their web page for the journey from St. Jean Pied-de-Port to Roncesvalles is

Daytime rate from Monday to Saturday: 49€
Evening or Sunday rate: 65€

Do not expect the rates to vary much between companies, but do consult the others too. Just as in the case of the taxi services from Pamplona, they all appear to offer the possibility of sharing a taxi with other pilgrims in order to reduce the cost of the journey.

Taxi Nafarroa, for example, offers the following rates:

Saint Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles: 4 people + luggage: 12 euros per person, 5 people + luggage: 10 euros per person.

Again, you'll need to confirm that this information is up-to-date when you arrive in St. Jean, but I hope this at least gives you some idea as to how you should budget.

God bless and buen Camino!

 

[billbennettoz]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Is it possible to get accurate information from Orrison?

I fly into Biarritz from Australia, (via Paris) then going straight to SJPP. I was going to acquit my jet lag by heading off the next day and easing into it by staying overnight in Orrison.

However, will I be able to make an informed decision the next morning in Orrison as to whether I can continue on the Route Napoleopn?

 

[cloosh]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

This little Scots/Canadian starts in a week. Thanks to the information here, I will be going Valcarlos. Snow mud rain and some common sense; not to mention the huge fine for rescue, dictates the obvious way to go until the all clear is given.
Bill.......Read the posts......Orisson is a no no at this time.

 

[billbennettoz]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

[quote="cloosh"
Bill.......Read the posts......Orisson is a no no at this time.[/quote]
I HAVE been reading the posts. Closely. Orrison is NOT a no-no at this time. It's perfectly safe to get to Orrison, it's going on from there that's the issue. My question was, and is: Can I get informed information at Orrison about continuing on. Bill

 

[Sagalouts]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Is it possible to get accurate information from Orrison?

I fly into Biarritz from Australia, (via Paris) then going straight to SJPP. I was going to acquit my jet lag by heading off the next day and easing into it by staying overnight in Orrison.

However, will I be able to make an informed decision the next morning in Orrison as to whether I can continue on the Route Napoleopn?

Hi Bill
the answer is yes plus its a great place to stay but you mostly have to book first or the people at the Pilgrim office can phone ahead on the day,please don't head out without a bed secured ,its a very popular place,
I'm walking the road route 5th April because Ive never done it before-but Orrison was always a highlight for me ,see clip from my blog below of misty but sunnier times.
have a great and safe Camino
Ian

 

[Lored]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

That's just the information I was looking for, Navarricano, thanks a bunch!

 

[hyalinejim]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Just finishing our mini Camino today. There is mud and ankle deep water to be dealt with as far as Logrono at the moment.

 

[billbennettoz]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Hi Bill
the answer is yes plus its a great place to stay but you mostly have to book first or the people at the Pilgrim office can phone ahead on the day,please don't head out without a bed secured ,its a very popular place,
I'm walking the road route 5th April because Ive never done it before-but Orrison was always a highlight for me ,see clip from my blog below of misty but sunnier times.
have a great and safe Camino
Ian

Hi Ian - wonderful, thank you. Yes, I have made a booking at Orrison, and already paid via PayPal! I figure I'll ease into my first Camino by staying there the first night, particularly with my jetlag. Presumably if the Route Napoleon is closed, I can get a taxi back to SJPP and go the Valcarlos way. But if the people at Orrison are in touch with the Pilgrim's Office, then that means they'll be able to let me know on the day whether it's safe to proceed or not.

This forum, I have to say, has been the most incredible resource for preparing me for this journey.

 

[cloosh]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Just finishing our mini Camino today. There is mud and ankle deep water to be dealt with as far as Logrono at the moment.

Oh my giddy aunt! (Note to self buy sun screen only when needed.)
Like Billbennetoz, I was kinda hoping to go over the Napoleon, but figure it will be tough to get a team of huskies and a sled aboard as carry on!
Now further news of water and mud to Logrono, which is at least a week into the journey....What say you we share a canoe Bill?

 

[naplesdon]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

I hope more pilgrims have read the report by Navarricano. The weather in Basqueland has been incredibly wet since the first of the year and the winter storms, high energy winds and snow are seemingly endless. As of Easter Sunday the local ski reports are announcing nearly 90% of the pistes in the Pyrennes still open for business. Today is the first sunny and mild day in weeks. I see visitors in Biarritz setting out for SJPP and want to warn them but realize they have travelled many miles to get this far and so why "rain" on their parade

 

[billbennettoz]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Now further news of water and mud to Logrono, which is at least a week into the journey....What say you we share a canoe Bill?

ha ha - yes cloosh - a canoe it might be. Although I am hoping that by April 10th the sun will be shining, the snow will have melted, the mud will have turned to soft green grass, the birds will be twittering, and we'll get the ok to walk the Route Napoleon.

All that said, should it be possible, there would be a terrible sadness walking that stage, remembering the death of the Brazilian/Canadian pilgrim who died. A very terrible sadness. Bill

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

re the mud. Bad news folks. Back in 1998 the mud between SJPP and Logrono was still there in June.

May 2004 it was ok but then that was a dry spring and summer.

I am expecting to meet it at the end of April when I walk that section. For some reason the roads suddenly seem very attractive.

 

[cloosh]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

OK we are into another week, and from what I am reading now, the weather is not improving much either in the mountains, because of ongoing snows, or now down on the lower grounds, because of flooding. Should we be wiping out any thoughts of even trying walking SJPP as far as Pamplona?
Navarracano, you are the man on the spot? What do you think? All local, factual knowledge greatfully received by this person. I leave for France on Wednesday

 

[whariwharangi]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Just finishing our mini Camino today. There is mud and ankle deep water to be dealt with as far as Logrono at the moment.

Goretex socks ...

 

[DragonLily]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

First off, let me thank Ivar for creating this Forum; second, my heartfelt appreciation to Navarricano and Falcon269 for your wonderful posts full of priceless information; and last but not least, any and all members that contribute to the ongoing education of all pilgrams/peregrinos. It really feels like a big family here regardless of where one calls home.

Though I don't anticipate any problems in May, I will be keeping a close eye on weather issues leading up to the start of my first Camino. As I don't have a return ticket booked from Santiago, I know I can turn to my Forum friends for help with transportation routes and options if I need to.

For all pilgrams on the Camino right now, buen Camino and take care!

Lily

 

[ffp13]

IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Important : advice for pilgrims planning on setting off in March 2013, your too late

From what I am reading the way is not too pleasant at present, lots of rain and mud, and cold, hopefully the next two months may become dryer and warmer, I'm crossing my fingers for great weather for my start in June?

Frank

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

Do you know, I'm English.

We are famed for the fact that we never do anything except talk about the weather.

We then tend to accept what is happening and then we get on with it.

I am rejoicing that - deep down - your'e all English as well. :wink:

 

[keoghy]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in March 2013

again just wanted to thank everyone for all the info. I'm starting from SJPP on Thursday and i'm booked in at Orisson for Thursday night out of interest i thought i'd mail refuge Orisson about the weather conditions and fair play to them they got straight back to me. Here's my original email and their reply.

Hi

Just enquiring about the weather and the trail. I'm booked in for 4th april. From what i've heard the route napoleon is closed, is this so? will it clear enough in the next few days to make it to roncevalles. I've read on the forums that if we stay at orisson and the next day the route to roncevalles is impassable that transport to valcarlos is provided, is this so? Any info would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards


Refuge ORISSON
9:38 AM (18 minutes ago)

to me
Hello,

For the moment there is too much snow and snow-drifts on the way.
If the way is impassable we transfer you to Valcarlos.
Regards.

Jean-Jacques ETCHANDY
http://www.refuge-orisson.com


Looks to me like the low route is the only option at the moment

 

[CJ Williams]

Re: IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off in APRIL 2013

I've updated the title of this thread so folks will keep checking back.

OK we are into another week, and from what I am reading now, the weather is not improving much either in the mountains, because of ongoing snows, or now down on the lower grounds, because of flooding. Should we be wiping out any thoughts of even trying walking SJPP as far as Pamplona?
Navarracano, you are the man on the spot? What do you think? All local, factual knowledge greatfully received by this person. I leave for France on Wednesday

Hi cloosh,

The above post from Monsieur Etchandy, the owner of the albergue at Orisson, says it all at this point. Thanks to keoghy for posting it.

You basically have two choices at this point: 1) Walk to Orisson from St. Jean Pied-de-Port and then be transferred to Valcarlos by Monsieur Etchandy if the Route Napoleon continues to be impassable, or 2) just set off on the Valcarlos route directly if you don't want to "waste" the time and energy going up to Orisson, only to have to transfer back down into the valley later.

Whether it's really a waste or not is each individuals' call; no one can decide that for you, obviously. What should not be anybody's personal call is whether or not you go over the top of the mountain. If you get to Orisson and M. Etchandy warns you not to carry on to the top, then please don't. The man knows his mountain.

As for the weather conditions, the current forecast in Roncesvalles and the mountains is for alternating thunderstorms and rain through Thursday, with the possibility of intermittent snow from Thursday afternoon through Sunday morning (7 April). Temperatures will hover around freezing most nights, so some accumulation should be expected.

You don't want to be on the heights of the mountains in a thunderstorm, by the way. I have a friend who was hiking in the mountains once when the weather changed suddenly. He said it was terrifying. He heard the air start to sizzle and then there was a lightning strike nearby! He had to run for cover and was lucky enough to be able to take shelter in a small grotto between some boulders till it passed. :shock:

So, definitely expect wintery conditions. When I was in Roncesvalles on Good Friday, it was quite cold and pouring down rain. From Roncesvalles onwards, expect to slog it through some remaining patches of snow and ankle-deep water and mud. Bring your wet weather gear, layers of clothing, your gaiters and walking poles, and arm yourself with flexibility and lots of patience.

God bless, be safe and buen Camino!

 

[billbennettoz]

Hi Navarracano,

A wonderful and very useful update. Thank you.

And Mr. Etchandy, thank you too for all of us who have bookings at your Albergue at Orrison. We know now that if the Route Napoleon is impassable, we can go via Valcarlos.

We are in the hands of the weather - and can make informed decisions at the time, thanks to you gentlemen. Bill

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The weather warning for today is for thawing, which is a curious warning, since it seems a normal thing as the weather becomes warmer. So, it must be severe enough to cause local flooding and full creeks. Off-road will be a wet slog!

 

[cloosh]

Sincere thanks Navarracanno for your detailed checking and reporting and points made by others on this thread. Weather wise it looks like a tough slog for the first week at least, where flippers would seem more apt than boots and gaiters. Comforting in some respects however, as nothing I plan works out as expected; yet, I usually reach my target. "Life is a battle and man is a soldier" seems to fit my life, and naught is changing so far with my first Camino. This time next week it will be interesting to see how my feelings lie after a couple of days on the way.
Again, thanks to all.

 

[cloosh]

I am rejoicing that - deep down - your'e all English as well. - Methodist Pilgrim

English? ENGLISH?............Scottish please, if you don't mind!!! :wink:
Neil McLeod

 

[Ajaerni]

even with the Napoleon route closed, there are plenty of options and its still easy to end at Roncesvalles at the end of day 1. I check into SJPdP this afternoon and will set off at first light tomorrow. I'll send notes if I have anything of value to offer. Buen Camino!

 

[NothFox]

Hi Ajaerni!

What is your guidebook?

Greetings to everyone, this is great forum

 

[billbennettoz]

What is your guidebook?

This is the John Brierley's Guide book, The Pilgrim's Guide to the Camino de Santiago. It's commonly used by pilgrims on the Camino.
http://www.amazon.com/Pilgrims-Guide-Ca ... e+santiago

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Weather warning for Thursday:

Avisos Meteorológicos: Navarra

jueves 4 Nivel de aviso máximo: Riesgo
|

Elaborado: martes, 02 abril 2013
Validez: viernes, 05 abril 2013 a las 00:00
Riesgo: Nivel de riesgo
Riesgo Fenómeno Nevadas

Acumulación de nieve : 10 cm
Ámbito Geográfico Pirineo navarro
Hora de comienzo jueves, 04 abril 2013 a las 00:00 hora oficial
Hora de finalización viernes, 05 abril 2013 a las 00:00 hora oficial

The prediction is for 10 cm of snow in the Pyrenees of Navarra.

Valcarlos is at a low enough elevation that only rain is predicted. The snow level will be about 500 meters. Roncesvalles' elevation is 944 m, so it will get some snow. The top of the pass on the Napolean route is about 1,300 m. Snow is predicted through Monday, but the snow level will be rising to about 1,000.

 

[cloosh]

Valcarlos is at a low enough elevation that only rain is predicted. The snow level will be about 500 meters. Roncesvalles' elevation is 944 m, so it will get some snow. The top of the pass on the Napolean route is about 1,300 m. Snow is predicted through Monday, but the snow level will be rising to about 1,000.[/quote]


Oh that is great news......No mosquitoes for sure then fellow Caminoists......We have it made!!!!!

 

[corin_k]

Thank you all for the posting weather updates. It's much appreciated

 

[Larazet]

Just finishing our mini Camino today. There is mud and ankle deep water to be dealt with as far as Logrono at the moment.

Goretex socks ...

Wellingtons!

 

[walkalot]

It is starting to look like I may be a good idea to cancell my reservation at Orisson on the 16th and just get started in Roncesvalles. I am too tropical to go around sloshing it through snow, wind and mud all at the same time. If at the end I have the energy to do it I just may come back from Santiago to SJPP and go over the Napoleon just for the fun of it. I am waiting until the weekend to make a decision, but I have the feeling not much is going to change in 5 days.

Am I jumping the gun here? Is it to soon to decide? Help veterans

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I have the feeling not much is going to change in 5 days

Summer could arrive!!!

Or another blizzard...

 

[walkalot]

Thanks Falcon for those every valuable pieces of information :mrgreen:

After reading your incredibly clarifying post and much careful consideration I think am back to were I was. Which by the way is pretty much what I expected, nobody knows what is going to happen, it is changing by the hour, I'll just hang in there until I can't stand it anymore.

Thanks for the sense of humor, nothing else will work in this case

 

[billbennettoz]

For what it's worth, I get into SJPP on the 9th, after flying through from Sydney. On the 10th I'm going to get my passport, buy a few things (to make my backpack even heavier ) and head on up to Orrison for a leisurely start to my Camino, to blow off some jetlag, and have a nice meal that night.

Then the next morning I'll take advice from the gentleman who runs Orrison, and either go Route Napoleon, if I'm told it's safe to do so, or hitch at ride to Valcarlos. I already have a booking in place at Orrison, and have paid, so that's what I'll be doing... Bill

 

[max44]

That's our plan as well Bill. Only, a few days later. We are glad we didn't get suckered into the wear one wash one propaganda. That may work in summer but not winter. We are layering our clothing.
Jet lag is a killer from Oz so Orisson is a good move.
Enjoy !

 

[billbennettoz]

Wonderful Max - I hope I meet up with you!

Yes, based on info from this forum, I'm taking a few more warm things than I otherwise would have, and if needs be I'll post them onto SdC when it starts to warm up further along the way. I figure an extra kg is worth it to keep properly warm. But then, this is my first time, so it's all a wonderful unknown!

Safe travels, Bill

 

[cloosh]

Will arrive SJPP on Friday and will try and post on here what I am advised by the locals regarding local conditions. Good luck to all.

 

[Willie Scanlan]

Hi,
As someone who has completed four Caminos, well over 2000k, I'll never forget the first ever stage from St Jean to Roncesvalles. In benign conditions I nearly didn't make it. A lot of those walking around me looked worse than me.

I've got a web page to sell a book BUT it is aimed more at selling the Camino to my fellow Scots, none of whom I've ever met in all my walks. So, if you're thinking of walking from St Jean, feel free to take a look. Forget the book stuff; concentrate on the section giving advice on the first stage.

It also has some common sense stuff about dogs and accommodation which you may find helpful.

http://fwscanlan.wix.com/caminobambino

Cheers!
Willie Scanlan

 

[hueppi]

@Max and Bill:
Could you keep us updated after crossing the mountains please?

I will start walking on April 27th. Booked into Orisson. Major jet lag expected as well
But if conditions sound all to dangerous and snowy and wet and muddy - I may well change plans and start out from Pamplona directly, where my plane arrives.

Thank you, guys!

 

[billbennettoz]

No worries hueppi,

I'm taking my iPad so as long as I can find some wifi, will post updates. I'll be in SJPP on Tues arvo, and heading up to Orrison on Wednesday. I just checked the weather and it looks like its currently raining all the way they to Burgos - but no doubt this can change quickly.

Bill

 

[tyrrek]

Wifi shouldn't be a problem all across the Camino. I was surprised how available it is. I think anyone who says otherwise is just excusing themselves for not contacting their mum. Buen Camino!

 

[tpmchugh]

Just back after trekking from Pamplona to Castojeriz. Hopefully by the time anyone reading this gets to Burgos things will have dried out but currently the trail from San Bol to Hontanos is just a deep mud bath virtually impassable. By the time I got through it there was so much mud clinging to my boots I could hardly lift one foot in front of the other, they were so heavy.. Had to cut my journey short mainly because I had just walked from Hontanos to Castrojeriz in driving persistent rain and my Trespass fully waterproof jacket wasn't waterproof. Soaked to the skin and more rain forecast for next day and unable to get my clothes dried and more of that mud ahead destroyed my will to go on. But will be back to finish it late Summer or next spring. Thanks again Navaricano for the help getting me there in the first place, couldn't have done it without you
Buen Camino

 

[tyrrek]

Gosh! You're earning your Compostela! It won't help you much but over the last few years people have been lamenting the lack of rain. If you see villagers smiling as you turn up looking like a drowned rat, they're just thinking about how good it is for the land, not how bad it is for you! Buen Camino!

 

[Striderc8]

I'm writing this from Estella, five days into my Camino and I can echo the posts about mud, there's lots of it so bring poles to help with balance if you can. Also, there are a couple of diversions after Pamplona due to landslides which means a bit more road walking. That's less muddy but harder on the feet. Must say though, it isn't especially cold here. Wet yes, sometimes sunny but not cold.
Hope that helps a bit.

 

[sergeantmajormammy]

Just back after doing STJPdeP to Pamplona 28th March - 1st April - haven't read any of the posts but there was lots of water underoot - icy snow underfoot coming out of Roncesvalles and then we had to wade through freezing (and I mean freezing) cold thigh-high water in the stream-turned-river on the farmtrack after Burguete (Iglesia de San Nicolas de Bari/Banco Central Hispano).
What was a footbridge/wall/stepping stones (?) was under about 1.5 feet of water and was about 3 feet in from the edge of the water so we had no alternative except to wade into the river ...

We survived but much of the trip was very mucky! It was lashing leaving StJ on the 28th, and lashed leaving Zubiri on 1st and absolutely bucketed today in Bilbao from where we flew home. But apart from that, it was dry and bright and even warm and sunny much of the time.

We had a great time, no aches/blisters/moans/disasters. I loved every minute of it.

Thanks so much to all the posters on this forum who answered queries, provided information and gave me answers to questions I didn't even know I needed to ask!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Five centimeters of snow is predicted for today and tomorrow in Roncesvalles.

 

[hyalinejim]

What was a footbridge/wall/stepping stones (?) was under about 1.5 feet of water and was about 3 feet in from the edge of the water so we had no alternative except to wade into the river ...

Wow! We passed through a few days before you. I know the place(s) you're talking about. I remember thinking how considerate it was of the local authorities to provide these little bridges across the streams, which were ankle deep. I would never have imagined them thigh high!

At least it's dry here at home, if a little chilly - welcome back!

 

[Ray T]

There were some snow flurries and light hail earlier today in the morning near Logroño. I left Pamplona on Monday. While it was muddy and wet the first two days, the trails over the last two days have been relatively mud and water free.

 

[max44]

Is anyone making it over the top at all? Even with a stop in Orisson? Is it possible to get to the snow from Orisson? I have done the Hymalayas however, the person I am going with has never seen snow, so I thought it would be a treat for her. It would be worth a day out to play in the snow

 

[CJ Williams]

Here we go again.

There has been another rescue in the Pyrenees. Thanks be to God, this woman survived her experience. This article appeared in this morning's print edition of the Diario de Navarra newspaper. The translation and emphases are mine:

Firefighters from Burguete rescued another pilgrim on the Camino de Santiago yesterday. (4 April). The pilgrim was a middle-aged American (U.S.) woman who had turned her ankle. It took firefighters two hours to tranport the woman three kilometers along paths completely covered in snow. The woman and her son were walking the Camino, following the Route Napoleon over the mountain from St. Jean Pied-de-Port to Roncesvalles; the Route Napoleon is snowed under at present.

Along the way, she sprained her ankle, and when she reached the shelter at Izandorre, radioed SOS Navarra for help. SOS Navarra, in turn, alerted the fire department in Burguete. This occurred at 4.30 in the afternoon. The firefighters reached the woman's location in 30 minutes, but transporting her to the paved highway, where they had left their vehicle, was quite a bit more complicated: by stretcher and at times walking with the support of the firefighters, it took the group two hours to cover the three kilometers distance.

The Route Napoleon is still covered in snow. It is still too risky to go that way. Yes, she twisted her ankle. Yes, some can justify this as an accident that could happen to anyone, even in summer too, etc. But folks, please... her rescue was complicated by the snow. Thank God she was able to get to the shelter, and thank God they got her off the mountain. but the weather here in Navarra has been cold and nasty for the past two days. More like January than April, and more snow is predicted for this weekend. Go the Valcarlos route, wear reflective vests and stay on the pavement.

 

[walkalot]

That pretty much does it for me. I am also looking at the local forecasts for the next couple of weeks and it does not look a whole lot better. I wanted to cross over the top through the Napoleon route because of the scenery, that so many say is spectacular, so I was never very interested in the Valcarlos route though many think that is quite nice also.

So, Roncesvalles it is. I will start walking on April the 16th. Anybody coming from Pamplona on the 15th?

To those brave souls that are starting from SJPP, be careful, good luck and Buen Camino

 

[billbennettoz]

The Route Napoleon is still covered in snow. It is still too risky to go that way. Yes, she twisted her ankle. Yes, some can justify this as an accident that could happen to anyone, even in summer too, etc. But folks, please... her rescue was complicated by the snow. Thank God she was able to get to the shelter, and thank God they got her off the mountain. but the weather here in Navarra has been cold and nasty for the past two days. More like January than April, and more snow is predicted for this weekend. Go the Valcarlos route, wear reflective vests and stay on the pavement.

Thank you for this update Navarricano. Your updates have been invaluable to those of us just about to set off. I begin in SJPP on Wednesday. Unless the weather does a dramatic turn-around, it looks like Valcarlos it is!

 

[sergeantmajormammy]

Just back after doing STJPdeP to Pamplona 28th March - 1st April - We had a great time, no aches/blisters/moans/disasters. I loved every minute of it.

Thanks so much to all the posters on this forum who answered queries, provided information and gave me answers to questions I didn't even know I needed to ask!

Just want to confirm that we took the Valcarlos route - because we had children with us, we had arranged months ago to break the days into Valcarlos, Roncesvalles, Biskarret and Zubiri. I loved the Valcarlos route and we were perfectly happy (in fact much happier) doing it. I did meet a number of 1st time (I think) pilgrims - as we were - further along the way who expressed disappointment about not being allowed go the Napoleon route - I couldn't understand their disappointment!

 

[waveprof]

With the intense weather, deep snow, and late spring.....

Do people think there will still be a direct danger to the Route Napoleon by mid May? Obviously bad weather can/could happen anytime (making the route inadvisable)......but do people think the current snow issues will still be in place?

 

[Thengel1]

I am writing from Pamploma. I started walking from SJPDP on the 2nd, arriving in Pamploma yesterday. Judging by some of the other posts, I was very lucky weather and water wise. There was lots of mud, but no water more than a couple of inches deep (lots of places where I was grateful for those stepping stones though!). While walking, there was a decent amount of rain, but not that heavy, and a couple of brief periods where there was precipitation that was on the dividing line between rain/snow.

It snowed in Pamploma this morning, enough to stick around for a bit, though by the end of the day, the old city seemed clear of it. The long range forecast for Pamploma has temperatures climbing into the 20's by Thursday, but I will be long gone by then of course.