Incident between Belorado and Tosantos

[ivar]

Dear all,

I was sent this the other day and wanted to share. This happened about 10 days ago.

----
I was walking between Belorado and Tosantos on the French route at 4p. The town of Tosantos was within sight, it couldn't have been more than 1.5 to 2km away. I had my headphones in and was listening to music loud enough that I couldn't hear the traffic on the adjacent road past the field. There were no pilgrims within my sight on the same trail, although I had passed a few on my way to Tosantos. I don't know what compelled me to do so, but I turned around and saw about 100 meters from me, a naked but masked man, masturbating. He was walking towards me touching himself; I began to run down the trail and he began chasing behind me. I ran, and then turned around to see that he had stopped chasing me, and was putting on a pair of black shorts. When I tried to take a picture of him, he began chasing me once more, touching himself. I ran once again. At some point, a bicyclist appeared from the Belorado direction towards Tosantos. The masked man (now with shorts on) ran towards a white car that was parked closer to the main road (N-120.) I was in hysterics by the time the cyclist reached me and repeatedly asked if he had seen the man. The cyclist said he had and asked if I needed help or anything. In my shock, I said I was okay. I should have asked him to chase after the man, or asked him for his contact information. After making sure I was okay, the cyclist carried on towards Tosantos. I don't know, but I feel that I owe my life to this cyclist. I don't know how to, but if possible I would like to send a million thanks to him. I believe the man would have continued chasing me if the cyclist did not ride past, as there was no one else in sight.

The owner of the albergue at Tosantos called the police, and I made a statement with them. They informed me that this kind of altercation has only happened once before, and only nearer to Burgos. I don't know if or how they will be able to catch the man as all I have to provide in terms of description is that the offender was white/pink skinned and overweight, and was wearing a black robbers mask with white circles around the eyes. He put on what looked to be black basketball shorts at some point.
----

As I responded to this pilgrim in my e-mail, it was great that she was able to report this to the police, so that there is a record of this in case it happens again in the future.

Greetings from Santiago,
Ivar

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I hope the person who wrote to Ivar recovers from this terrible incident, and that there are no further problems in this area. Walkers (on all paths) might consider wearing only one ear-bud when listening to music...it allows you a better chance to hear other people on the path, bike bells, the horn of a car that is out of control. I like to listen to music when I run, but only use both ear-buds when I'm on a treadmill.

 

[Gareth Griffith]

Dear all,

I was sent this the other day and wanted to share. This happened about 10 days ago.

----
I was walking between Belorado and Tosantos on the French route at 4p. The town of Tosantos was within sight, it couldn't have been more than 1.5 to 2km away. I had my headphones in and was listening to music loud enough that I couldn't hear the traffic on the adjacent road past the field. There were no pilgrims within my sight on the same trail, although I had passed a few on my way to Tosantos. I don't know what compelled me to do so, but I turned around and saw about 100 meters from me, a naked but masked man, masturbating. He was walking towards me touching himself; I began to run down the trail and he began chasing behind me. I ran, and then turned around to see that he had stopped chasing me, and was putting on a pair of black shorts. When I tried to take a picture of him, he began chasing me once more, touching himself. I ran once again. At some point, a bicyclist appeared from the Belorado direction towards Tosantos. The masked man (now with shorts on) ran towards a white car that was parked closer to the main road (N-120.) I was in hysterics by the time the cyclist reached me and repeatedly asked if he had seen the man. The cyclist said he had and asked if I needed help or anything. In my shock, I said I was okay. I should have asked him to chase after the man, or asked him for his contact information. After making sure I was okay, the cyclist carried on towards Tosantos. I don't know, but I feel that I owe my life to this cyclist. I don't know how to, but if possible I would like to send a million thanks to him. I believe the man would have continued chasing me if the cyclist did not ride past, as there was no one else in sight.

The owner of the albergue at Tosantos called the police, and I made a statement with them. They informed me that this kind of altercation has only happened once before, and only nearer to Burgos. I don't know if or how they will be able to catch the man as all I have to provide in terms of description is that the offender was white/pink skinned and overweight, and was wearing a black robbers mask with white circles around the eyes. He put on what looked to be black basketball shorts at some point.
----

As I responded to this pilgrim in my e-mail, it was great that she was able to report this to the police, so that there is a record of this in case it happens again in the future.

Greetings from Santiago,
Ivar

Trying not to make too light of what must have been a very frightening event for the poor lady concerned. I suggest another potential use for trekking poles. A quick whack on the w1lly and that would give this naughty boy some serious stick! Of course if you had two trekking poles you could do some serious damage, a quick whallop from the right followed by a swift poke from the left.......................Trekking poles have long been recognised as a defense against threatening
dogs, but they can be used as a weapon against any threat. Don't leave home without at least one but preferably two.

 

[Mark Lee]

Trying not to make too light of what must have been a very frightening event for the poor lady concerned. I suggest another potential use for trekking poles. A quick whack on the w1lly and that would give this naughty boy some serious stick! Of course if you had two trekking poles you could do some serious damage, a quick whallop from the right followed by a swift poke from the left.......................Trekking poles have long been recognised as a defense against threatening
dogs, but they can be used as a weapon against any threat. Don't leave home without at least one but preferably two.

agreed 100%
that dude definitely needs an attitude adjustment and a quick lesson in manners and treatment of women via the end of trekking pole
one good smack down and I'll bet he wouldn't do it again.

 

[ranthr]

Well, if a crazy guy starts running after you, I would suppose he has other intentions than showing up, so with a backpack on your back I wouldn't suggest starting a fight with him even with poles, if you could avoid it by running away. Bring an alarm girls,with a terrible sound, that will stop him for a moment, looking around another time to find out if anybody is near by. And of course use your poles and fight back if you really have to. Screaming heavily often scares offenders as well.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Thanks for posting this Ivar. As awful as the experience would have been it is better to be aware of this.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the person involved. I hope that they were able to continue on to Santiago.

It was great that she made an official report. This also gives anyone who may have experienced anything untoward in this area an opportunity to report any incidents to police.

One suggestion that has served me well on several occasions is to carry a whistle. A few sharp bursts will alert anyone within hearing distance.

 

[trecile]

agreed 100%
that dude definitely needs an attitude adjustment and a quick lesson in manners and treatment of women via the end of trekking pole
one good smack down and I'll bet he wouldn't do it again.

Hmm, I don't think that this guy cares about manners, most sex offenders don't.

One of the important things that this incident points out is the necessity to be always be aware and alert, no matter where you are.

 

[Mark Lee]

Hmm, I don't think that this guy cares about manners, most sex offenders don't.

One of the important things that this incident points out is the necessity to be always be aware and alert, no matter where you are.

Obviously wasn't meant in a literal sense of ways to deal politely with the opposite sex.
I'm a bit familiar with sex offenders, having dealt with them and testifying in court against them as an LEO.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I would echo the statements above that the safest course of action is get away and sound an alarm: screaming, blow a whistle, or go to amazon or other sites and put in 'panic alarm'--many small, very loud, lightweight options. Flashers/public masturbation is done for the thrill, and they can escalate to sexual assault. If he were chasing and I thought my pack was letting him catch me I'd ditch it...and run like crazy. I would choose to be a victim of theft over sexual assault. Even with years of martial arts, going on the offensive is not what I would choose to do over getting away...but I agree if I did feel trapped, poles make a good weapon...but use judgment on targeting. Be aware that any action you take to hurt his genitals, if ineffective, will not only not slow him down but will also most likely make him really angry...probably a lot more than if you swung at his face. these are men who are acting out of a deep sense of shame and rage.

 

[KinkyOne]

Imagine this: you have spotted a guy wanking 50 or so meteres behind you or off the track. No real problem safety wise. But you're running and he's following you. A problem. What to do in the middle of nowhere? I would turn around (and that did once although in the city and I wasn't sexually harrased) and run toward him yelling like hell. I bet he would run away so fast you couldn't believe it.

Maybe a bit off-topic: wearing the headphones (ear-buds???) and listening to whatever that's something I can't really understand. You can do that in fitness studio (as Sparrow mentioned), at home or even at your work place, but on the Camino, listening to music or else...??? Why would someone come all the way to a pilgrimage route in Spain to listen to the music (s)he can listen in everyday life? Yes - "everyday" life, because Camino is something else and it should be. But to each his own.

Anyway for the sake of security - do not put anything into your ears. Listen to the sounds around you. Those might be your life savers, especially walking on the road shoulders and deserted Caminos. And those sounds are life around you. Embrace it. It's very simple, talk to yourself

 

[Kanga]

Without being alarmist, please be aware that a percentage of flashers do become violent. It is a myth that they are all harmless exhibitionists. For that reason it is not a good idea to confront one. The advice I received from a specialist police unit was to treat all flashers as if they were attempting a direct sexual assault - scream, yell and run. Get away as quickly as you can. Report it to the police and persist with your complaint until some action is taken - report it to your embassy or consulate if you are a foreign national.

 

[Hiawatha]

The offender is obviously cunning and has picked his intended victim with some consideration. An alarm or screaming is useless unless there is someone else to hear ; and as is unfortunately increasingly so , willing to become involved . It is fortunate that the cyclist [ quiet and swift and unlikely to have been spotted by the offender ] was able to deter the beast.
Self defence in the form of sticks or other weapons only exposes the victim to the possibility of having the same weapon turned onto themselves .
The mask points to preparedness , there is a real possibility that along with this there was a knife or other weapon concealed or within the vicinity . The car may be transport for the offender , it may also be a means to convey the victim .
As distasteful as this incident is it is indicative of the real world and should be held in mind . The only real defence in such a situation is to run , unfortunately if a vehicle or more than one offender is involved then the situation is almost certain to become very serious .
Walking alone in remote areas miles from others is perhaps not the best practice for men or women , the fact that this occurred within sight of a village points to a brazen offender whose behaviour may possibly escalate .

 

[Annie Little]

Although weapons can be turned on you I think it still is good to be prepared .... I had a small tin of hair spray in easy reach and my poles ....
IF needed poles in right hand held at groin level and spray in left hand at eye level .... Offender would not know what spray is and would think twice ... Spray in eyes good deterent .... I might not be able to out run offender and also running shows fear sometimes offender can be out smarted by fearlessness ... That is just MY OPINION ....

 

[anna klara klintegaard]

So many white cars!!! Also a white car in this incident from the 20. Octobre:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/warning-camino-del-norte.44032/
I met a flasher with a white van just before Astorga in 2014. And a group of women met the same guy + the white van a few days later after Ponferrada.
I really hope it is not the same guy still pestering pilgrims!!
All my best wishes to the two women involved!

 

[obinjatoo@yahoo.com]

I'm sorry to hear that this has happened. It's terrifying and I hope she will be OK. I've always thought pepper spray with a very loud alarm like an air horn could be useful...

 

[Hiawatha]

[QUOTE="obinjatoo@yahoo.com, post: 456575, member: 1961] I've always thought pepper spray could be useful...[/QUOTE]

It would be of interest if a seasoned member could advise of the availability and perhaps more so, the legality and constraints of the use of such sprays in Spain .
I believe that any woman who feels the need to carry these should be able to . Perhaps I risk universal condemnation, but to me the alternative would be far more disturbing .

 

[Annie Little]

That's why I decided to carry small tin hairspray ..... Cannot be deemed a weapon but pointed in the eyes or mouth could be a deterrent ..... And the attacker would not know what it was if produced and pointed .....
These people are cowards so I believe showing a proactive stance by producing a deterrent while yelling obscenities drawing attention might be in my interest ..... The attacker may well think it not worth the trouble ...
I would not be able to outrun anyone so running would not be a good plan for me ..... Just my opinion....

 

[smj6]

Have just arrived in Belorado. Bought a loud whistle in the little shop in the Plaza Mayor & about to walk the 5kms to Tosantos. Wish me luck

 

[smj6]

Phew. Safe & sound in Tosantos. S

 

[Mark Lee]

My best advice to anyone walking the Camino (or anywhere for that matter) that has an encounter with a sex offender such as the one described in the OP is to yell and scream and run away as fast as you can. If that means dropping your backpack, so be it. Nothing in that pack that can't be replaced and as advised on here in many a post, your really important stuff like your passport, credit cards, cash, etc should be on your body and not in the pack. Drop the pack, scream and yell and run as far away as you can. Get assistance and then go back. Since attention from third parties is the last thing a sex offender like that wants, in all likelihood they will leave the scene quickly as soon as you make a ruckus.
The pepper sprays and such are great under the right circumstances, but they require some measure of standing your ground and making close contact with the sex offender. Their practical distance is about 2-4 meters. That's pretty close. Better to give up ground and run away. If you see them approaching from a distance, don't wait for them to close it. Run. No doubt they usually have a car nearby and don't want to get too far away from it as it's their means of escape and it identifies them as well.

 

[MichaelB10398]

An exhibitionist is acting in a way that he is sexually gratified by the reaction of the individual, typically a woman, who sees him. It is the woman's reaction that he is seeking and the more emotional it is the better for him. Please read this article to gain a better understanding of exhibitionism. Then read this article to learn how best to respond when seeing an exhibitionist.

For those without the time to read the short articles, here is some advice provided by experts:

• "Bottom line: If confronted by a flasher, try to leave the situation as quickly and calmly as possible, without giving him the reaction he seeks. Keep moving -- away. If you react, give him an exaggerated eye roll, give him an expression or snort of disgust, or call him a loser, then tell him you are calling 911. Then call 911 as soon as possible," says Dr. Hart.
• "Don't stick around, approach, or make an unprovoked attack. That's looking for trouble. If the flasher comes toward you, scream for help and run toward safety.
• If he gets close, definitely fight back as hard as you can - you must assume you are fighting for your life. Once you get away, call 911 as soon as it is safe to do so."
• Body language expert Patti Wood recommends, "They are seeking attention and want a strong reaction. Keep your full body, feet, torso and head turned away and try not to give any strong emotional response to his behavior. Then move away and call authorities with a description so the flasher is caught."

Most pilgrims are focused upon and have often achieved a spiritual "high" of sorts and it is often distressing to be confronted by something so incongruent, so terribly conflicting to spirituality of the Camino.

Most of us are of an age that seeing the nude human body has lost its fascination or surprise. Even though it is shocking to be confronted, the advice that I think best is to roll your eyes in disgust, telling the individual they are a "loser" or something that reflects one's distaste of such socially inappropriate behavior and firmly, directly move away and call the police as quickly as possible.

I am sorry that women are confronted by such loathsome behavior, but it happens and it happens everywhere. It is not to be treated lightly; it is serious, and it is a sign of a sick person acting in socially inappropriate ways in order to get a reaction.

If you are able to forgive him you will quickly return to your Camino that you have grown to enjoy, appreciate, and love. This experience will then be washed away without affecting you or damaging your Way.

 

[ranthr]

I think it is a big difference here between what I would call an ordinary flasher, the one you might see in every park in every city, which I saw several times a week in The Royal Park in Oslo on my way to or from my college when I was young, and this one starting to run after the victim. I really feel sorry for this girl who had to experience such a thing on her camino. Being in the area a few days later, I must admit, even as an oldie of little interest to the offenders, I take an extra look at the guys coming behind me.

 

[MinaKamina]

An exhibitionist is acting in a way that he is sexually gratified by the reaction of the individual, typically a woman, who sees him. It is the woman's reaction that he is seeking and the more emotional it is the better for him. Please read this article to gain a better understanding of exhibitionism. Then read this article to learn how best to respond when seeing an exhibitionist.

For those without the time to read the short articles, here is some advice provided by experts:

• "Bottom line: If confronted by a flasher, try to leave the situation as quickly and calmly as possible, without giving him the reaction he seeks. Keep moving -- away. If you react, give him an exaggerated eye roll, give him an expression or snort of disgust, or call him a loser, then tell him you are calling 911. Then call 911 as soon as possible," says Dr. Hart.
• "Don't stick around, approach, or make an unprovoked attack. That's looking for trouble. If the flasher comes toward you, scream for help and run toward safety.
• If he gets close, definitely fight back as hard as you can - you must assume you are fighting for your life. Once you get away, call 911 as soon as it is safe to do so."
• Body language expert Patti Wood recommends, "They are seeking attention and want a strong reaction. Keep your full body, feet, torso and head turned away and try not to give any strong emotional response to his behavior. Then move away and call authorities with a description so the flasher is caught."

Most pilgrims are focused upon and have often achieved a spiritual "high" of sorts and it is often distressing to be confronted by something so incongruent, so terribly conflicting to spirituality of the Camino.

Most of us are of an age that seeing the nude human body has lost its fascination or surprise. Even though it is shocking to be confronted, the advice that I think best is to roll your eyes in disgust, telling the individual they are a "loser" or something that reflects one's distaste of such socially inappropriate behavior and firmly, directly move away and call the police as quickly as possible.

I am sorry that women are confronted by such loathsome behavior, but it happens and it happens everywhere. It is not to be treated lightly; it is serious, and it is a sign of a sick person acting in socially inappropriate ways in order to get a reaction.

If you are able to forgive him you will quickly return to your Camino that you have grown to enjoy, appreciate, and love. This experience will then be washed away without affecting you or damaging your Way.

A gentle reminder that the emergency number in Europe is 112 and not 911.

It is recommended that you download the alert cops app in Spain, "a universal access to every public citizen security service, so any person, regardless of their language, origin or auditory or vocal disability, can send to the State Law Enforcement Authorities (Police and Civil Guard) an alert about a crime or security incident whether they are victims or witnesses of such."
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/alert-cops.36208/

This guy is a creep with his balaclava and his car nearby, and the woman was lucky to get away, kudos for reacting the way she did. As for forgiveness, is it really necessary to mention this to someone who feared for her life? Everyone should be free to choose if (ever) and when they forgive and if a hot bath, a bottle of booze or a long call with their partner works better for them, then that is what they should do. Whatever is best for them.

 

[trecile]

Being in the area a few days later, I must admit, even as an oldie of little interest to the offenders, I take an extra look at the guys coming behind me.

Sex offenders are equal opportunity offenders. They don't care what your age is or what you look like.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

What someone might do in a busy city park when sitting with six friends (ignore) is not what I would choose to do when a masked naked man is chasing me on a deserted road in the middle of nowhere. He may be an exhibitionist. He may be a rapist. He may be a kidnapper and serial killer. I don't want to find out which. He either has mental health problems, or anger towards women, or both. This is not the kind of person I would choose to antagonize. I would not provoke him with laughter, eye rolls, or any sort of interaction. I would try to attract others to the area (because regardless of what else is motivating him, you alone is what he wants). I would drop my pack (even if it had all my money, cards, and passport) and run as far from him as fast as I could.

edit: as for attracting attention, this is where a whistle or a panic alarm might be more useful than screaming. It is a sad fact that some people will not respond to a cry for help, but will come out to see what the alarm going off is all about. For similar reasons some suggest screaming 'fire' rather than 'help'. The panic alarm would not require you blowing on it, so extra breath for running.

 

[alipilgrim]

Many people may not realize that many packs have a whistle built right into the chest strap. It's worth having a close look at your pack to see if yours does; recognizing that it's there every time you "buckle up" might help you remember it in times of need/panic.

 

[SYates]

Guilty as charged @alipilgrim ! It was @HeidiL that pointed mine out to me when we walked together one day on the VdlP - however, if wouldn't rely on them as an only measure of safety.

Ask yourself - how would you react if you heard the sound of a whistle?

Buen Camino, SY

 

[alipilgrim]

I'd hope the exhibitionist might be jarred to his senses. At the least it might give him pause, and therefore more time for the victim to get away.

 

[SYates]

Perhaps, perhaps not. That is a very difficult topic, so far I used the 'just ignore him and call the police as soon as I am out of sight" on and off the Camino.

Also, fellow peregrinas: Learning/training in self-defense is a really good idea - not only for the Camino.

Buen Camino, SY

 

[Hiawatha]

Ask yourself - how would you react if you heard the sound of a whistle?
SY

A very good point , it brings to mind the ancient question '' If a tree falls in the forest with no one there to hear it , does it make a sound ''?

 

[mspath]

No one asks for trouble. However I, too, have had my share of 'unhappy' moments and from time to time have felt the cold frisson of true fear....However, luckily long ago I was taught by my father self-defence.

Twice over the years I have been physically attacked; once when 35 while walking to work in NYC through Central Park when I knocked the guy down by swinging my briefcase into his groin and unfortunately more recently on the camino in 2010 when at 71 I knocked a drunk off me while I was trying to take a siesta on a bottom bunk. Both incidents were duly reported to the relevant police; both those incidents left me shaken and wary but fear never stopped me continuing.

Earlier in October 2007 I hiked 24 km against the wind to Sahagún. After a delicious lunch at Casa Barrunta in the village of San Nicolas the 'fun' began. From the highway which parallels the camino a taxi horn honked several times. One Spanish pilgrim rushed across the road. She explained that a young hoodlum wearing camouflage was walking the camino. For my safety she offered a ride. I said thanks but I would continue to walk.

Within 10 minutes footsteps crunched the gravel path. Bingo! It was a young guy wearing pink and grey camouflage! We looked at each other. I say "Hola!"; he grunted and passed. Arriving at the municipal albergue I explained the situation to the hospitalera who gave me a key to lock myself in since the place is huge and I was the sole pilgrim. Time passed. While in the shower I heard heavy footsteps mounting the stairs. Covered in soap suds I dashed for my poncho. Two big cops and two slim male cyclists appeared! "Senora, we've brought you some protection" said the cops. We all laughed, shook hands and I clad only in the poncho brewed tea for the five of us. After tea GREATLY relieved I finished my shower and climbed into a bunk to blissfully sleep clean and well protected.

 

[Hiawatha]

If any Pilgrim is considering self defence training I can thoroughly recommend Krav Maga as a discipline.
It is utterly brutal and very effective , suited to men and women of slight build and guaranteed to make you feel far less vulnerable .
It is surprisingly easy to learn and is not weighed down by the many rituals , robes and exercises associated with Eastern methods .
A simple introductory course comprising of six or seven lessons will allow you to fend off an attack and retaliate in a manner than can give you enough time to escape .

 

[SYates]

Wen Do https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen-Do , if available in your country, is also pretty good as it is especially about women defending themselves from assaults. Buen Camino sin miedo, SY

 

[Annie Little]

Such a great shame we have to discuss this ..... One of the very great things that I loved about recent Camino was .... The freedom walking all day gave me ...... I did end up walking with a couple of ladies but if I had my choice would rather be alone .... Such a shame we have to consider such things ..... We did notice the stares from the men in some villages .... Seeing free women walking without men .... Annoying and sad at the same time .....

I like being empowered / alone / free / open hearted .... Oh well .......

PS: I won't rely on a whistle .... Have a plan ! I refuse to be a victim

ULTREIA

 

[C clearly]

Seeing free women walking without men .

Actually, Spanish women do this quite a lot! The frank stare at strangers is something we are not used to, and it seems rude to many of us, but we should be careful not to over/mis-interpret it!

 

[vlebe]

Imagine this: you have spotted a guy wanking 50 or so meteres behind you or off the track. No real problem safety wise. But you're running and he's following you. A problem. What to do in the middle of nowhere? I would turn around (and that did once although in the city and I wasn't sexually harrased) and run toward him yelling like hell. I bet he would run away so fast you couldn't believe it.

Maybe a bit off-topic: wearing the headphones (ear-buds???) and listening to whatever that's something I can't really understand. You can do that in fitness studio (as Sparrow mentioned), at home or even at your work place, but on the Camino, listening to music or else...??? Why would someone come all the way to a pilgrimage route in Spain to listen to the music (s)he can listen in everyday life? Yes - "everyday" life, because Camino is something else and it should be. But to each his own.

Anyway for the sake of security - do not put anything into your ears. Listen to the sounds around you. Those might be your life savers, especially walking on the road shoulders and deserted Caminos. And those sounds are life around you. Embrace it. It's very simple, talk to yourself

Sorry to move a bit away from a serious topic and, also for disagreeing with you but: Listening to music on the Camino is one of the best experiences one could have... You should give it a go next time... Seriously!

Yes, it can make you not hear something around you and, maybe this is just one the beauties to it.

We are not crossing a tight deep snow crest of a mountain where any slip can have you killed. We're walking paths where - for most parts - there is not even car traffic. Use it wisely, and where there is no cars, pick one side of the path and stick to it, and you'll be fine.
(counting that no sex offender appear from behind surprising you, of course... On this particular situation your suggestion makes a point but... If I have to be that careful to walk any camino, I might just stay at home in a 25 million people city, full of dangerous and concerns to care about).

That's my humble opinion on the ' headsets' discussion....

Buen Camino lovely people!

 

[Annie Little]

I also loved playing music on the Camino .... Classical in the early morning as the sun rose on the track was magical ....

I did not use headphones .... My iPhone was in a pouch carried on front .... If people in vacinity or going through village I turned it down ...

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Sorry to move a bit away from a serious topic and, also for disagreeing with you but: Listening to music on the Camino is one of the best experiences one could have... You should give it a go next time... Seriously!

Yes, it can make you not hear something around you and, maybe this is just one the beauties to it.

We are not crossing a tight deep snow crest of a mountain where any slip can have you killed. We're walking paths where - for most parts - there is not even car traffic. Use it wisely, and where there is no cars, pick one side of the path and stick to it, and you'll be fine.
(counting that no sex offender appear from behind surprising you, of course... On this particular situation your suggestion makes a point but... If I have to be that careful to walk any camino, I might just stay at home in a 25 million people city, full of dangerous and concerns to care about).

That's my humble opinion on the ' headsets' discussion....

Buen Camino lovely people!

I listened to music, with one ear bud. Not because I worry about masked men sneaking up on me, but because I want to be able to hear someone else who might call out for help (too many years as a first responder perhaps), because I want to hear the bike about to plow into me even though I am on the far side of the road (only a day on the camino teaches that), because it would be rude not to return a 'good morning' or 'buen camino' call, because sometimes cars might be out of control and unable to stop...because sometimes a dog might be giving me warning that I was on his property...i walked some areas completely empty of cars, bikes, people, and dogs...but usually at least one or more was present. So I felt like I should probably be present as well.
usually I walked with no music--i found the sounds of nature much more enjoyable...and even easier to be present in the moment

 

[vlebe]

I listened to music, with one ear bud. Not because I worry about masked men sneaking up on me, but because I want to be able to hear someone else who might call out for help (too many years as a first responder perhaps), because I want to hear the bike about to plow into me even though I am on the far side of the road (only a day on the camino teaches that), because it would be rude not to return a 'good morning' or 'buen camino' call, because sometimes cars might be out of control and unable to stop...because sometimes a dog might be giving me warning that I was on his property...i walked some areas completely empty of cars, bikes, people, and dogs...but usually at least one or more was present. So I felt like I should probably be present as well.
usually I walked with no music--i found the sounds of nature much more enjoyable...and even easier to be present in the moment

All those things are true ! And I go along with them .

Only adding one thing or two, that depending on the season you are walking , you have time for everything :

Returning "good morning" or "buen camino" calls from strangers , avoiding get hit by a bicycle (although this would be rude of the biker IMHO regardless of the season ) , playing and avoiding with good and bad dogs and also to. . . Just let your soul go with the flow of the nature on the camino . . . . It's Flow, it's rhythm. . . Beating in sync with the songs you love the most in your life , or discovering new songs you didn't know existed but that will blend so wonderfully to the landscape and energy around .. that your mind will just boggle. . .

Sometimes between songs , even a car can loose control in a highway, the same way it happened between Astorga and Foncebadon , almost killing myself and other 3 Brazilian pilgrims In 2009 , missing us by a couple of meters (VERY TRUE STORY ) . . .

There is time for just everything . . .

And that's one of the many reasons why I love the camino and, with much effort (leaving so far away ) I keep coming back to it. . . Because I love this . . . . It mimics life in its most pure and filled with good energy manner . . .

There is time for everything . . .

There is time for it all. . .

Buen camino ! With or without music !

Ultreya !

V.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Sometimes between songs , even a car can loose control in a highway, the same way it happened between Astorga and Foncebadon , almost killing myself and other 3 Brazilian pilgrims In 2009 , missing us by a couple of meters (VERY TRUE STORY ) . . .

I'm so glad you weren't hurt!

 

[vlebe]

I'm so glad you weren't hurt!

Amém! ! !

 

[obinjatoo@yahoo.com]

[QUOTE="obinjatoo@yahoo.com, post: 456575, member: 1961] I've always thought pepper spray could be useful...

It would be of interest if a seasoned member could advise of the availability and perhaps more so, the legality and constraints of the use of such sprays in Spain .
I believe that any woman who feels the need to carry these should be able to . Perhaps I risk universal condemnation, but to me the alternative would be far more disturbing .[/QUOTE]
Not more disturbing to me.... Men can stop rape culture....

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I think he was saying that a woman doing what she needs to do to protect herself, even if it hurts the attacker, is OK...
I think he meant falling prey to an attacker was much more disturbing than fighting back

i may be in a minority, but i do not hold all men accountable for the actions of a particular man, any more than all men are responsible for a man who murders, steals, etc.

 

[Kanga]

My experience with men has been overwhelmingly positive - the vast majority I have met are decent human beings who have treated me as we would all wish to be treated - kindly, respectfully, equally. Unfortunately the very occasional bad incident sticks in the mind.

But let's keep things in perspective. Nothing that is reported or has happened to me gives me the slightest pause before committing to another walk - joyfully. And without pepper spray. But I do have the emergency number keyed into my phone. Which is common sense, really, who knows when it might be useful for any kind of accident or medical emergency.

 

[Hiawatha]

Thank you Smallest_Sparrow , that is exactly what I was suggesting , I thought it was fairly clear but I will make it clearer for obinjatoo .
I believe no consideration should be made for the welfare of the attacker of a helpless or defenceless person , male or female ,other than a modicum of restraint in causing permanent injury .
Thank you Kanga, for the moderate voice , personally it hurts to be lumped into the Male Pig stereotype so flippantly , there are good men and bad men , good women and bad as well .

 

[fraluchi]

But I do have the emergency number keyed into my phone. Which is common sense, really, who knows when it might be useful for any kind of accident or medical emergency.

...and it's probably at the head of the 'phone list under AAA ...