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Interesting Observation Camino de Levante

murraydv

Via de la Plata / Sanabres / Camino de Levante
Camino(s) past & future
Completed Via de la Plata (2018).
Started Camino de Levante (2019).
Hi again, planning my next section of the Camino de Levante, continuing in April from Casas de Los Pinos. So, I am doing some homework in the route especially through many towns and villages that I will pass through on my next visit.
Some of you will have noticed that I posted an interesting chart last year, showing graphically the contrasting routes between Caminos Sureste and Levante, where they converge, diverge and co-exist along the way. I am attaching that map again. In a number of towns, they diverge on separate paths which, by definition means that there two routes out of some towns. Minaya, Tembleque, Toledo etc.
I was studying the route out of Tembleque and there are Camino arrows guiding you out of town from the Cathedral. However, if you follow that path, you will find that you are heading to a town called Vilanueva de Bogas and you actually come across a camino sign which says Camino del Sureste. Sure enough, this route out of Tembleque is on the Camino de Sureste. So, there must be another route out of Tembleque on the Camino de Levante. And another bit of research finds that route heading out (southwest of Tembleque) towards the highway CM-410, this route leading to a town called Mora. Well that makes sense since all the documentation will say that Mora is the next town after Tembleque on the Camino de Levante (25 klm). So problem solved!
But the puzzling part for me is that, when I search the web, I see that many people walking the Levante actually walk to Vilanueva de Bogas and then on to Mora, effectively walking two sides of a triangle instead of one. I have two GPS tracks, one on "map-me", which include Vilanueva de Bogas on the Camino de Levante and, separately, there is a Camino de Levante blog by a very nice member of this group who walked it in 2013 and, again, walked through Vilanueva de Bogas.
So why do people not go on the direct and official route from Tembleque to Mora which is marked with Camino signs? Perhaps it is to avoid such a long stint without any places to break? Not even sure that there is a marked Camino path from Vilanueva de Bogas levante Sureste.jpgto Mora since the natural progression on the Camino del Suresta is from Vilanueva de Bogas on to Almonacid de Toledo?
And to compound the puzzle even more, both caminos converge again in Almonacid de Toledo, so if you go to Vilanueva de Bogas, why would you bother going across to Mora when you will tie up again with the Camino de Levante on Almonacid de Toledo,
If this is confusing then simply put, pilgrims appear to be walking two sides of two triangles (4) instead of one side twice (2). A bit of a puzzle. I think that I will take the direct route to Mora. Your thoghts?
 

Bad Pilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Far too many...
Hi again, planning my next section of the Camino de Levante, continuing in April from Casas de Los Pinos. So, I am doing some homework in the route especially through many towns and villages that I will pass through on my next visit.
Some of you will have noticed that I posted an interesting chart last year, showing graphically the contrasting routes between Caminos Sureste and Levante, where they converge, diverge and co-exist along the way. I am attaching that map again. In a number of towns, they diverge on separate paths which, by definition means that there two routes out of some towns. Minaya, Tembleque, Toledo etc.
I was studying the route out of Tembleque and there are Camino arrows guiding you out of town from the Cathedral. However, if you follow that path, you will find that you are heading to a town called Vilanueva de Bogas and you actually come across a camino sign which says Camino del Sureste. Sure enough, this route out of Tembleque is on the Camino de Sureste. So, there must be another route out of Tembleque on the Camino de Levante. And another bit of research finds that route heading out (southwest of Tembleque) towards the highway CM-410, this route leading to a town called Mora. Well that makes sense since all the documentation will say that Mora is the next town after Tembleque on the Camino de Levante (25 klm). So problem solved!
But the puzzling part for me is that, when I search the web, I see that many people walking the Levante actually walk to Vilanueva de Bogas and then on to Mora, effectively walking two sides of a triangle instead of one. I have two GPS tracks, one on "map-me", which include Vilanueva de Bogas on the Camino de Levante and, separately, there is a Camino de Levante blog by a very nice member of this group who walked it in 2013 and, again, walked through Vilanueva de Bogas.
So why do people not go on the direct and official route from Tembleque to Mora which is marked with Camino signs? Perhaps it is to avoid such a long stint without any places to break? Not even sure that there is a marked Camino path from Vilanueva de Bogas View attachment 69058to Mora since the natural progression on the Camino del Suresta is from Vilanueva de Bogas on to Almonacid de Toledo?
And to compound the puzzle even more, both caminos converge again in Almonacid de Toledo, so if you go to Vilanueva de Bogas, why would you bother going across to Mora when you will tie up again with the Camino de Levante on Almonacid de Toledo,
If this is confusing then simply put, pilgrims appear to be walking two sides of two triangles (4) instead of one side twice (2). A bit of a puzzle. I think that I will take the direct route to Mora. Your thoghts?

On the Levante I walked to Mora, on the Sureste through Villanueva de Bogas, so I kept the two routes completely separated. I haven't read/heard about pilgrims who change between them in this area? But ok, apparently there are pilgrims who do this.

My observations: while walking the Sureste, I came across at least one/a few waymarks that indicated the direction & distance to Mora (on the Levante), so there are actually waymarks that help you if you want to cross over to the other route. (But when I walked the Levante, there was no indication that the Sureste ran closely in the area).

Mora is a larger town than Villanueva de Bogas, so I would understand the attraction of Mora whether you follow the Sureste or the Levante...! Even on the Sureste, in the future, I would definitely cross over to Mora!

/BP
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
I walked the Levante and passed through Villanueva. I vaguely remember that it had to do with whether we would pass through a town without a bar or not on our way to Mora. The route to Mora is about the same via Villanueva or not. And the fact of no accommodation (at that time at least) in Almonacid also made a stop in Mora obligatory. The schematic map makes that look crazier than it actually is. The google maps show actual locations of those towns.
 

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Bad Pilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Far too many...
the puzzling part for me is that, when I search the web, I see that many people walking the Levante actually walk to Vilanueva de Bogas and then on to Mora

Oh ok, you were surprised that people deliberately want to visit Villanueva de Bogas while they are on the Levante. No, I have no explanation to this. Villanueva de Bogas, as I said, is duller and smaller than Mora and the accomodation is really bad in my opinion.

An explanation could be that there are active members of the Sureste Asociación in Villanueva, thus they have an albergue, while Mora (last time I checked) didn't have an albergue, only hostals. So perhaps pilgrims veer off to Villanueva because it has an albergue.

/BP
 
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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
So let me back up a bit. First decision when you are leaving Tembleque, on either the Levante or Sureste: Where are you going to sleep that night? Neither Villanueva de Bogas nor Almonacid have (I guess I should say "had", because I haven't been there in 5 or 6 years) a place to stay. I believe a few forum members had slept on the floor somewhere in Almonacid, but that wasn't really an option for me. So we decided to sleep in Mora.

Second decision: How to get to Mora. There are two options:
1. Levante route direct to Mora. That's 25 km.
2. Take the Sureste to Villanueva de Bogas, that's 13 km, and then cut back over to Mora, which is another 9 or so. Since the Levante route, at least at the time, had no bars or services of any kind, we decided to walk to Villanueva, get a coffee, and then carry on to Mora. (I was walking with two Frenchmen, and I believe the French guide to the Levante, written by someone named Gerard, recommends this alternative).

Then the next day, you have a LONG day through Almonacid and into Toledo, lots of pavement pounding at the end, again unless things have changed. But it seems like that is unavoidable.

So though the map is correct in the distances it posts, it is misleading because it makes it seem like a crazy decision to walk to Mora by starting out on the Sureste and then cutting over. But it's really a pretty sensible option, IMO. Mora is not a great little spot, but it has lots of services and cheap lodging, so it was a perfectly ok place to sleep. If Almonacid had lodging of any kind, I definitely would have stayed on the Sureste and gone straight to Almonacid.

I did some forum searching and have found that Kinky and Alan Sykes slept in an albergue of sorts in Almonacid. I am virtually certain that option was not available to us when we were walking. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wb5qliffymwj1e7/Screenshot 2020-01-28 10.50.32.png?dl=0 (post #48 in the thread)

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-the-last-couple-of-months.56858/#post-642480 (post number 6 in the thread)
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
As a purist I didn't for once think of crossing over to Sureste while walking the Levante :D

But I think @Bad Pilgrim got it in his explanation. It seems pretty much possible that people choose this option because they don't intend to walk Sureste any time soon (if they are on Levante or vice versa).

Apropos @peregrina2000 : yes there is (was in 2015) a possibility to sleep in changing rooms of the piscina municipal in Almonacid de Toledo. For me personaly it was one of the highlights of the Levante. But I don't want to ruin your day with (animal) details about using the showers as a first one after the winter closure :D :D :D
 

Bad Pilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Far too many...
But I don't want to ruin your day with (animal) details about using the showers as a first one after the winter closure :D :D :D

So YOU were the one that stirred up the cockroaches that I had to sleep with the following day…! :eek: (I remember I was just one or two days behind you at that point on the Sureste… I remember we talked about it a few years ago ;)!)
 
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Bad Pilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Far too many...
Neither Villanueva de Bogas nor Almonacid have (I guess I should say "had", because I haven't been there in 5 or 6 years) a place to stay.

As Kinky says, it was possible - at least in 2015 - to sleep in the sports hall/changing rooms in Almonacid (I don't know about now. The Ayuntamiento said they were ashamed to offer this to pilgrims and they were thinking about other arrangements; I don't know where they are with that today).

In Villanueva de Bogas there are members from the Asociación (Sureste) that runs an albergue-slash-storage room (very basic); also in 2015. This guy and his mother seemed very industrious and pilgrim-friendly so it would surprise me if this doesn't exist as of today.

/BP
 

Bad Pilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Far too many...
And to compound the puzzle even more, both caminos converge again in Almonacid de Toledo,

Perhaps this is off topic, but in Almonacid de Toledo the Levante and Sureste split again (unless re-routing was made since 2015). Levante goes through Nambroca and is well marked. The Sureste was trickier: I got lost and had to make a grand detour to reach Burguillos de Toledo. A Sureste bicigrino got lost at the same spot the same day! I think Levante is the better option here.
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
So YOU were the one that stirred up the cockroaches that I had to sleep with the following day…! :eek: (I remember I was just one or two days behind you at that point on the Sureste… I remember we talked about it a few years ago ;)!)
Hahahahaha, yes. Dozens of cockroaches came out of the shower the minute I opened the water. It was so funny. But they were all flushed back from where they came. I guess they sent a message to others in other showers that the showering season has come. That night when I was there the villagers were filling the swimming pool. So maybe I spare some cockroach lives that evening :D
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
Perhaps this is off topic, but in Almonacid de Toledo the Levante and Sureste split again (unless re-routing was made since 2015). Levante goes through Nambroca and is well marked. The Sureste was trickier: I got lost and had to make a grand detour to reach Burguillos de Toledo. A Sureste bicigrino got lost at the same spot the same day! I think Levante is the better option here.
I got "lost" on the Levante, walking on the highway all the way to Toledo. But arrows were there. I guess they were old and that official Levante was rerouted after Nambroca by the time I passed through there???
 
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Kiwi-family

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Past: (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018)-Frances, Baztan, San Salvador, Primitivo, Fisterra,VdlP, Madrid
I am known for thinking something looks very simple on paper but managing to not know exactly where I am once I’m walking. So goodness only knows where I’ll end up in a few months!
 

mlhhome

Really new member
Camino(s) past & future
Various (‘12, ‘13, ‘15, ‘16, ‘18 & ‘19)
Thanks for sharing...We appreciate your stories! They remind us to move far away from sanitized, pasteurized, homogenized Caminos and take the opportunity to experience life on steroids!
 

JLWV

Jean-Luc
Camino(s) past & future
Levante (2014-2016); Levante to Toledo (2017-2018), to be continued; Fisterra & Muxia (2018);
I walked twice this stage by Levante without problems the first time and just some short doubts the second.

20140926 0812 Tembleque 0039.JPGSignals out of Tembleque, going by streets Hospital, Pozo Blanco, San Anton, then the way left.

2018 10 02 1009 DSC_0233.JPGOne doubtfull point after some 10 km, next to the road. Go by the left route, which is better, although the right one permits to connect further.

2018 10 02 1103 DSC_0237.JPGSome broken sign is something we can find on the way

DSC_0234 anotada.jpg Second doubtfull point, where to cross the road and the Rio Algodor. An old sign points to the right out and along the road. A yellow arrow points direct to the road to be crossed immediately (jumping the rails on the other side) to go by the old bridge over the river.

20140926 1321 sierras Castillo y Morejón 0052.JPGLandscape some 3 km before going down to Mora, with the castle of Peñas Negras on our left side. Just before those mountain there are a few km on asphalt, but with very few cars traffic.
 

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KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
I had a slight problem after Nambroca although I was following the arrows. Some were quite faded and I also have a photo of one on the autovia metal rails. I walked past Urbanizacion Las Nieves and then on Autovia de Toledo (A-42), turned left on N-400 and came directly to Puente de Alcantara. But as I remember Levante should brought me to Mirador del Valle. Well, I guess I'm just very talented to f*** things up and invent new approaches :D
 

Bad Pilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Far too many...
I walked twice this stage by Levante without problems the first time and just some short doubts the second.

View attachment 69091Signals out of Tembleque, going by streets Hospital, Pozo Blanco, San Anton, then the way left.

View attachment 69093One doubtfull point after some 10 km, next to the road. Go by the left route, which is better, although the right one permits to connect further.

View attachment 69094Some broken sign is something we can find on the way

DSC_0234 anotada.jpg Second doubtfull point, where to cross the road and the Rio Algodor. An old sign points to the right out and along the road. A yellow arrow points direct to the road to be crossed immediately (jumping the rails on the other side) to go by the old bridge over the river.

View attachment 69092Landscape some 3 km before going down to Mora, with the castle of Peñas Negras on our left side. Just before those mountain there are a few km on asphalt, but with very few cars traffic.

The way into Mora, where the castle of Peñas Negras approaches slowly in front of you, is so much more interesting than the Sureste. I like your pictures; they bring back memories from that stretch!
 

JLWV

Jean-Luc
Camino(s) past & future
Levante (2014-2016); Levante to Toledo (2017-2018), to be continued; Fisterra & Muxia (2018);
(I was walking with two Frenchmen, and I believe the French guide to the Levante, written by someone named Gerard, recommends this alternative).
I have this guide, and effectively Gérard Rousse, its author, aka Gérard Ducamino, recommend it, but only to have a stop at Villanueva.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Also, for anyone out there who will be walking the Levante and thinks the stage from Mora to Toledo is too long, I remembered a forum member who found a hotel a bit off camino after Almonacid. Here is his post
The hotel is Villa Nazules, a little pricey, though.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2009), Camino Frances (2012), Via de la Plata (2013) and Camino del Norte planned for May, 2015
Hi again, planning my next section of the Camino de Levante, continuing in April from Casas de Los Pinos. So, I am doing some homework in the route especially through many towns and villages that I will pass through on my next visit.
Some of you will have noticed that I posted an interesting chart last year, showing graphically the contrasting routes between Caminos Sureste and Levante, where they converge, diverge and co-exist along the way. I am attaching that map again. In a number of towns, they diverge on separate paths which, by definition means that there two routes out of some towns. Minaya, Tembleque, Toledo etc.
I was studying the route out of Tembleque and there are Camino arrows guiding you out of town from the Cathedral. However, if you follow that path, you will find that you are heading to a town called Vilanueva de Bogas and you actually come across a camino sign which says Camino del Sureste. Sure enough, this route out of Tembleque is on the Camino de Sureste. So, there must be another route out of Tembleque on the Camino de Levante. And another bit of research finds that route heading out (southwest of Tembleque) towards the highway CM-410, this route leading to a town called Mora. Well that makes sense since all the documentation will say that Mora is the next town after Tembleque on the Camino de Levante (25 klm). So problem solved!
But the puzzling part for me is that, when I search the web, I see that many people walking the Levante actually walk to Vilanueva de Bogas and then on to Mora, effectively walking two sides of a triangle instead of one. I have two GPS tracks, one on "map-me", which include Vilanueva de Bogas on the Camino de Levante and, separately, there is a Camino de Levante blog by a very nice member of this group who walked it in 2013 and, again, walked through Vilanueva de Bogas.
So why do people not go on the direct and official route from Tembleque to Mora which is marked with Camino signs? Perhaps it is to avoid such a long stint without any places to break? Not even sure that there is a marked Camino path from Vilanueva de Bogas View attachment 69058to Mora since the natural progression on the Camino del Suresta is from Vilanueva de Bogas on to Almonacid de Toledo?
And to compound the puzzle even more, both caminos converge again in Almonacid de Toledo, so if you go to Vilanueva de Bogas, why would you bother going across to Mora when you will tie up again with the Camino de Levante on Almonacid de Toledo,
If this is confusing then simply put, pilgrims appear to be walking two sides of two triangles (4) instead of one side twice (2). A bit of a puzzle. I think that I will take the direct route to Mora. Your thoghts?
Eek...at the risk of sounding trite...take the road you intended to walk in the first place. Sometimes the alternate seems shorter and shinier but having walked the Camino de Levante, I would say I did not regret walking the odd step or two further than I might have had to. It is simpler that way.
 

bjorgts

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Caminos in Spain, France, Portugal, Germany since 2003. Last: Malaga - Cordoba November 2019
When we walked Levante, we also walked first to Villanueva de Bogas, and then to Mora. Reason: There was a bar in Villanueva de Bogas! And there were beds in Mora!
 

bjorgts

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Caminos in Spain, France, Portugal, Germany since 2003. Last: Malaga - Cordoba November 2019
The sign where we left Levante and chose Sureste to Villanueva de Bogas, and the bar. :)
 

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Bad Pilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Far too many...
The sign where we left Levante and chose Sureste for Villanueva de Bogas, and the bar. :)

Yes I recognize the bar. As I remember it, there are actually two bars in the village? But the one in your picture is right by the Camino - very convenient!
 

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