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COVID International Irony

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Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances 2017
Planning for 2021
Today I read in the news that the Spanish Government will open its doors to travellers from the UK from March 31.
However in the very same paper I read the news that the UK Government has blocked external travel from the UK, except in very highly defined instances, imposing £5000 fines on those who do travel for purposes outside those defined instances.

Whereas I totally agree with the UK stance on non essential travel, which has been seen to spread variants that may lead to innocent people dying, I contrarily also see and agree with the economic aspects looked at by the Spanish Government.

I am resigned to not even attempting to travel this year.

I am probably more worried that I can hold opposing views on this matter in my head, at the same time.😁
 
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Year of past OR future Camino
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Jimmy Smith,
Indeed.
Check out what I just
posted in the thread Lockdowns.
What a chaotic whirl our world is in.
At least in Spain when they pass " la pelota" you know what you're getting, in the UK they pass the "parcel", you only know what's inside when you get into it! 😏
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Today I read in the news that the Spanish Government will open its doors to travellers from the UK from March 31.
I couldn't agree more when I look at the current craziness of travel restrictions and rules. Mallorca over Easter and travellers from Germany (who are allowed to go by both the German and Spanish governments) versus travellers from mainland Spain (who are prohibited from going by the Spanish government) for example ... :rolleyes:.

A word of caution as to the end of March: there are currently two travel bans imposed by Spain on travellers from the UK. One of them, the stricter one, will end on the 30th of March and the Spanish government has announced that it will not be prolonged. As to the other entry ban ... I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
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2012
International and intranational travel is currently restricted in most of Europe, including the UK, except for certain generally specified reasons - work, family emergency, study, residence etc. All relevant information available from reliable government websites.

If a UK citizen can establish that they, their wife and children, grandma and the dog are travelling to Mallorca for a fortnight while compliant with the specified criteria for travel then both the UK and Spanish governments are content that they do so. I'd love to see the paperwork ;)

ps My lovely neighbour recently said that she would be happy to have to spend a fortnight in a Mallorcan hotel 'cos that's all she wants to do...
 

Luka

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Pelgrimspad I, Via Monastica, Via Podiensis, Via de la Plata, Camino Francés, Camino del Norte...
I couldn't agree more when I look at the current craziness of travel restrictions and rules. Mallorca over Easter and travellers from Germany (who are allowed to go by both the German and Spanish governments) versus travellers from mainland Spain (who are prohibited from going by the Spanish government) for example ... :rolleyes:.
This is what makes a lot of Spaniards angry. That they are not allowed to visit family in other provinces during Semana Santa, but that foreigners can go on holiday to Spain.
 

Michael; Camino-addicted

Take your time to enjoy a beautiful moment
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I couldn't agree more when I look at the current craziness of travel restrictions and rules. Mallorca over Easter and travellers from Germany (who are allowed to go by both the German and Spanish governments)
Not only the Spanish rules are kind of crazy.....

We are allowed to flight to Mallorca, stay in a big hotel with big dinning rooms, restaurants ........ and come back without going in quarantine!
The politicians say it's not legally possible in Germany to ban someone from leaving for another country and if they let you in somewhere else and the hotels are open, you're lucky.

But we are not aloud to stay in a hotel or visit a restaurant in Germany and even renting a holiday house with a kitchen, almost like at home, is not possible in the whole country. In Germany everything is closed.

Even in normal years nearly everything is closed on every normal Sunday and public holiday, including Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Easter Monday - German Sundays and public holidays also apply to employees in shops - I love it!!!
So there would not even be the possibility of doing anything at the holiday resort other than sitting with the family in the holiday home, enjoying the time and go for an Easter walk- like at home.
Unfortunately forbidden.

Especially the people in the German tourist areas are very upset.

Sometimes I am not surprised that the acceptance of the corona rules in Germany and many other countries is decreasing more and more.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
It is all whistling in the wind for Australians. From the Government website: There is a ban on overseas travel from Australia.

We can go to New Zealand if they will have us. We can apply for an exemption to travel to other places on compassionate and a few other grounds, but we might not be able to get back. If we do we will be subject to 14 days (at least) in government run hotel quarantine, for which we will have to pay.

In some ways it makes it easier because there is no decision to be made. Still dreaming though!
 
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Kathar1na

Member
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To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
it's not legally possible in Germany to ban someone from leaving for another country
Apparently, the German constitution allows laws and rules to make people stay within a radius of 15 km of their homes in a health crisis or similar public emergency but it is not possible to prohibit them from leaving the country in such circumstances. One of the surprises of the last year was learning that other countries can do this easily to their nationals and impose summary exit bans, and for a long time ... 😎

Over 7,000 tourist flew to Mallorca already last weekend, and hundreds of flights were put on by EasyJet, Lufthansa, Ryanair etc and sold out quickly for Easter.
 
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Anhalter

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2019 CF
Apparently, the German constitution allows laws or rules to make people stay within a radius of 15 km of their homes in a health crisis or similar public emergency but it is not possible to prohibit them from leaving the country under such circumstances. One of the surprises of the last year was learning that other countries can do this easily to their nationals and impose exit bans, and for a long time ... 😎
This might be related to a certain dark era in the last century. But to be honest, i did not know this myself.
And yes, in my opinion our goverment has not done so well in the last half year of this crisis and more and more people are getting seriously upset about it. (And i do not mean those "special" people that think C19 is a big hoax).
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
From the 31st of March onwards, both the Spanish and the UK government allows you of course to fly from the UK to Spain for the purpose of "purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property”. I guess that includes albergues. :cool:
 
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Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
From the 31st of March onwards, both the Spanish and the UK government allow you of course to fly from the UK to Spain for the purpose of "purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property”. I guess that includes albergues. :cool:
I shake my head in disbelief at that also
 
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JabbaPapa

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Year of past OR future Camino
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Apparently, the German constitution allows laws and rules to make people stay within a radius of 15 km of their homes in a health crisis or similar public emergency but it is not possible to prohibit them from leaving the country in such circumstances. One of the surprises of the last year was learning that other countries can do this easily to their nationals and impose summary exit bans, and for a long time ... 😎
Typically in Europe, it's entry bans or permissions rather than exit ones -- generally, the effects are the same, but as Europe opens up at different speeds in different countries and regions, some discrepancies are inevitable.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Typically in Europe, it's entry bans or permissions rather than exit ones
I have no idea, actually. I know that the UK and Belgium currently have blanket bans on leaving the country for their own nationals. Doesn't Portugal still have an exit ban on their own nationals, or does this only concern the land border with Spain? I am not addressing the issue of how such exit bans are or can be enforced, btw, it's a futile question, for me anyway, as I, as well as those who I know, do their best to live by the rules voluntarily.
 
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henrythedog

Loved and fed by David
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2017, 2018, 2019, Ingles 2018, (Madrid 2019 partial - retired hurt!) (more planned)
I shake my head in disbelief at that also
As the best reported UK National travelling overseas for property-related matters in recent months was the prime minister’s father the provision is informally known as the ‘Stanley Johnson loophole’.

If there was a world-championship for shooting yourself in the foot in public relations terms we would have been allowed to keep the trophy permanently by now.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
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Doesn't Portugal still have an exit ban on their own nationals, or does this only concern the land border with Spain?
It generally takes me between 45-60 minutes to get my head 'round Portugal's policies in any given week, as even the Portuguese journalists seem to be confused by them, leading to wildly contradictory reports ; but as to this detail no, as the EU has mandated that the internal international borders of the EU are not closed.

However, there is a "30 kilometre rule" whereby border municipalities or regions (and so the Nation States) can prevent entry to those resident at a more than 30K distance on the other side of the border. The microstates within the Schengen environment have been hit somewhat badly by this one.
 

Michael; Camino-addicted

Take your time to enjoy a beautiful moment
Year of past OR future Camino
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Next plan - Camino de Baztan
It is not easy for the government under Angela Merkel to bring all the federal states under one hat.

In our constitution, the topics often mentioned so far as "soft policies" such as culture (the state's relationship with the churches, schools, universities, etc.) and health and crisis prevention are assigned to the individual federal states.

Every decision on lockdown, schooling, opening of shops, restaurants, hotels etc. is made by each individual government of our 16 federal states. In principle, there could be 16 different regulations in Germany. And within the federal states, cities and counties can also set stricter rules. In order to standardise this, Angela Merkel can often only act as a kind of moderator.
And to coordinate these at least 16 opinions with the other EU states is obviously impossible.

It is often the case that a Germany-wide regulation is agreed upon by the prime ministers of the federal states, and the next day the first state says: We have changed our minds.

Not an enviable job for Ms Merkel. Many things went relatively well in Germany during the crisis. In the meantime, however, many people are very frustrated.

Basically, I think our very decentralised political system is very good and, in my opinion, it has proven itself very well over the last 70 years. During the Corona crisis, however, we had to learn that there are situations where occasionally "an organising hand with a little more constitutional competence" would be desirable and would make many things easier.
 
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From the 31st of March onwards, both the Spanish and the UK government allows you of course to fly from the UK to Spain for the purpose of "purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property”. I guess that includes albergues. :cool:
Only into rented accommodation in which you are the sole residents. I guess that excludes Albergues

Edited to add that the UK government may also enforce 14 days quarantine on folks returning from overseas.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Only into rented accommodation in which you are the sole residents. I guess that excludes Albergues
I was actually thinking of all these people who want to buy an albergue or a second home on a Camino. ☺️
 
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Year of past OR future Camino
CF 2014, CF 2018, CP 2019 from Coimbra
Typically in Europe, it's entry bans or permissions rather than exit ones -- generally, the effects are the same, but as Europe opens up at different speeds in different countries and regions, some discrepancies are inevitable.
As my neighbours who winter in Portugal recently returned to Canada from their home in Portugal (near Braga), it is clear that the ban is not on leaving the country entirely; it must refer to, at minimum, the land border with Spain -- and perhaps entry into other EU countries, though I cannot comment on that.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Locked-down Spaniards seethe with envy as Germans flock to Mallorca
Locked-down Spaniards seethe with envy as Germans flock to Mallorca ... while non-locked-down Germans seethe with envy because up to 0,05% of Germans can holiday on Mallorca over Easter and don’t (yet) have to quarantine upon their return, just take yet another test, while the rest, about 80 million of them, cannot spend their Easter holidays in their own region and in their own country, other than staying at home, because all the hotels and holiday rentals are closed there for holiday tourists. At least the Spaniards can travel and stay in those of their hotels that are open in their region.

Even the Parador in Compostela has still rooms available over Easter, though not at their cheap rate.

And it’s not only Germans. They just happen to be in the news. Today, there are also flights from Paris, Stockholm, Prague, Zurich, and Vienna arriving at the Palma do Mallorca airport. In addition to those from Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Sevilla, Santiago ...

It’s a topsy-turvy Covid world. 🙃
 
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Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Locked-down Spaniards seethe with envy as Germans flock to Mallorca ... while non-locked-down Germans seethe with envy because up to 0,05% of Germans can holiday on Mallorca over Easter and don’t (yet) have to quarantine upon their return, just take yet another test, while the rest, about 80 million of them, cannot spend their Easter holidays in their own region and in their own country, other than staying at home, because all the hotels and holiday rentals are closed there for holiday tourists. At least the Spaniards can travel and stay in those of their hotels that are open in their region.

Even the Parador in Compostela has still rooms available over Easter, though not at their cheap rate.

It’s a topsy-turvy Covid world. 🙃
It certainly is.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
It’s a topsy-turvy Covid world. 🙃
Wow, that’s not bad either, seen in the Guardian today:

New Zealanders overseas have reacted with despair to news that the government has doubled the time returning citizens are required to stay to avoid paying a $3,100 quarantine fee. The changes, announced on Wednesday, mean people coming home from overseas will need to stay six months, rather than the previous three, to be exempt from the fee.
Don’t come back unless you are wealthy, is the title of the article chosen by the Guardian. The people who are getting a particular bad deal with all these restrictions on mobility are people who live and work abroad or have close family members abroad. Being separated for a year or longer is a lot worse than not being able to walk a Camino in Spain every year.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Wow, that’s not bad either, seen in the Guardian today:

New Zealanders overseas have reacted with despair to news that the government has doubled the time returning citizens are required to stay to avoid paying a $3,100 quarantine fee. The changes, announced on Wednesday, mean people coming home from overseas will need to stay six months, rather than the previous three, to be exempt from the fee.
Don’t come back unless you are wealthy, is the title of the article chosen by the Guardian. The people who are getting a particular bad deal with all these restrictions on mobility are people who live and work abroad or have close family members abroad. Being separated for a year or longer is a lot worse than not being able to walk a Camino in Spain every year.
This is so extreme as to be unbelievable, though I have zero doubt as to your own accuracy -- a six-month quarantine, seriously ??

The fact that even the generally obedient and respectful pilgrims in this forum are starting to comment on these sorts of excesses is significant.
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
This is so extreme as to be unbelievable, though I have zero doubt as to your own accuracy -- a six-month quarantine, seriously ??

The fact that even the generally obedient and respectful pilgrims in this forum are starting to comment on these sorts of excesses is significant.
It isn't six months in quarantine. I hope this article helps.

 
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Kanga

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Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
In Australia everyone who enters from abroad has to go into 14 days government run hotel quarantine at their own cost (and this can be extended for various reasons). It comes out about the same. The New Zealanders get their money back if they stay in New Zealand for at least 6 months (as I read the article). As far as I know Australians don't get a refund.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Nice article in La Vanguardia about the gran incoherencia of travel restrictions as to current internal and international (meaning coming from other EU countries) tourism in Spain. The article provides some figures about the number of “international” (=EU) tourists who did come to Spain in January and February of this year, and tells us who tries to put the blame on whom for situations where, at least hypothetically, a Parisian can fly to Madrid, but a Madrilenian cannot travel to Valencia unless he does so by air and first stops at an airport outside of Spain.

Spanish Prime Minister and other ministers of his government are quoted and give reasons, the writer of the article presents relevant facts that don’t make the government sound very convincing and, essentially, it doesn’t matter much anyway because, in relative terms, very few people had been or are travelling for leisure anyway ...

From my own limited and anectodal experience, what keeps people from travelling abroad within the EU, and it’s mainly leisure travel to visit family, are the various rules on quarantine where they exist for healthy travellers (none in Spain I think). Quarantine time is a huge factor for people who work and are not retired but it is also a negative factor of consideration for others.
 
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Doughnut NZ

From Aotearoa New Zealand
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
.....
Don’t come back unless you are wealthy, is the title of the article chosen by the Guardian. The people who are getting a particular bad deal with all these restrictions on mobility are people who live and work abroad or have close family members abroad.
It seems eminently reasonable to me and I think, most Kiwis that if you want to visit ANZ for a short time then you should pay part of the cost of staying in a top class hotel for two weeks while you are in quarantine. I guess that there will always be other people who think that taxpayers should pay for them.
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
It seems eminently reasonable to me and I think, most Kiwis that if you want to visit ANZ for a short time then you should pay part of the cost of staying in a top class hotel for two weeks while you are in quarantine. I guess that there will always be other people who think that taxpayers should pay for them.
@Doughnut NZ I cannot agree with you more. I look on with admiration with the way you have dealt with things and wish you well.
As for your Prime Minister...I am in awe.
 
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Kathar1na

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Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I note that Ireland is charging a similar amount for their mandatory quarantine. This seems very reasonable to me.
I wasn't criticising the New Zealand system of Managed Isolation and Quarantine fees, just noting with interest this measure as we had previously been talking of countries that cannot bar their own citizens from leaving the country and from returning to the country for constitutional/legal reasons. Highly paid executive expats will have no problems with the MIQ fee in NZ and provided they have the time for a 15 days visit (14 days in quarantine and 1 day with their family members), for others it will cause a big hole in their household budgets and others will not be able to afford the fee and will have to stay away. I wasn't thinking of touristic/leisure travel but of the expats situation. They are a minority, anyway.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I note that Ireland is charging a similar amount for their mandatory quarantine. This seems very reasonable to me.
Out of curiosity, I had a look. Looks like any holiday booking system, there is even a "Promo Code" option ☺️.

I was surprised to see Ruanda on the list of high-risk countries as this country had been exempt from incoming (into EU) travel bans for so long, and, among the European countries, Austria is the only high-risk country on Ireland's list, ie the only European country where you must quarantine at a designated hotel when you travel from Austria to Ireland.

Quarantine hotels Ireland.jpg
 
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Doughnut NZ

From Aotearoa New Zealand
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
I wasn't criticising the New Zealand system of Managed Isolation and Quarantine fees, just noting with interest this measure as we had previously been talking of countries that cannot bar their own citizens from leaving the country and from returning to the country for constitutional/legal reasons. Highly paid executive expats will have no problems with the MIQ fee in NZ and provided they have the time for a 15 days visit (14 days in quarantine and 1 day with their family members), for others it will cause a big hole in their household budgets and others will not be able to afford the fee and will have to stay away. I wasn't thinking of touristic/leisure travel but of the expats situation. They are a minority, anyway.
Expats, as you call them, are no different from anyone else who wants to visit ANZ or any other country. Travel costs. If you have the money then you can travel if you wish. For the rest of us we save to travel when we are able to and for some that means traveling rarely or not at all.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Expats, as you call them
It‘s just an expression I’m familiar with for people who live and work abroad, either long or short term, without regarding themselves as emigrants/immigrants and who usually maintain strong connections to their country of origin (family, property, voting rights and so on).

As I said, they are a tiny minority among the international business and leisure travellers world-wide. My earlier comment that they are getting a particular bad deal with all these restrictions on mobility was a general comment, it wasn’t a specific reference to New Zealand.
 
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Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
I looked up the definition of irony and one of them was.
" A state of affairs that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result"

I'm finding the definition of irony not to be ironic at the moment.
 

Thom

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances (Sep-Oct 2016). Camino Baztan to Trindad de Arre, joined the Frances (Sept-Oct 2019).
Add to the mix that Spain has effectively banned non-essential travel between regions for Spaniards and foreign visitors alike. In other words, who goes to Seville, stays in Seville
.
 

Undermanager

Active Member
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No Camino last year and I really can't see it happening this year for Brits either. As the UK is an island, it is relatively easy to keep Covid numbers exploding again by ensuring unecessary travel is banned, especially while Europe and other areas are running out of control. I fully expect Boris to do this.
 

nicollb

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Via Frances 2013
Today I read in the news that the Spanish Government will open its doors to travellers from the UK from March 31.
However in the very same paper I read the news that the UK Government has blocked external travel from the UK, except in very highly defined instances, imposing £5000 fines on those who do travel for purposes outside those defined instances.

Whereas I totally agree with the UK stance on non essential travel, which has been seen to spread variants that may lead to innocent people dying, I contrarily also see and agree with the economic aspects looked at by the Spanish Government.

I am resigned to not even attempting to travel this year.

I am probably more worried that I can hold opposing views on this matter in my head, at the same time.😁
To be able to hold conflicting views at the same time is a sign of spiritual development -- non-dual thinking. 😇 I say good for you!

I'm not travelling outside the US this year at at -- hope to be able to walk again before I'm too old.
 
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Zordmot

First timer Spring 2019
Year of past OR future Camino
April-May 2019
The way I understand it, everyone knows that the international rules are going to be inconsistent and vary widely and seem unfair when you compare one country to another and even within a country. But..... the end game is to LIMIT the spread of the virus during this period before enough % of the population is vaccinated. Totally eliminating the spread isn’t practical or necessary to keep enough ICU beds available for those who are sick and to keep it from getting totally out of control. Inconsistent and leaky rules and policies seem unfair and stupid from a personal liberty point of view. From a public health perspective, they are good enough in terms of stemming the tide temporarily before the real solution is in place. Patience.
 

Finisterre

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Sarria 2001,
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Valenca 2008,
Finisterre 2010,
SJdPP 2012,
Tui 2014.

No plans to return, yet.
If international flights had been stopped 14 months ago there wouldn't be a pandemic. We were lucky. SARS killed 50% of people over 60. The chances of Covid becoming more lethal are not zero until the entire world is vaccinated. I am amazed that we allow people to fly at all.

If chaotic rules cause less travel I'd say, good.
 

Suefield

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Le puy Cahors to SJPDP
It isn't six months in quarantine. I hope this article helps.

This move was taken because many Kiwis want to move back permanently, but having to wait a long long time to get into isolation facilities. Others were returning for a 3 month holiday (I know of some), and taking up those facilities at the taxpayers' expense.
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
This move was taken because many Kiwis want to move back permanently, but having to wait a long long time to get into isolation facilities. Others were returning for a 3 month holiday (I know of some), and taking up those facilities at the taxpayers' expense.
Without going into interminable details the UK operates a similar system of quarantine for visitors and UK residents arriving from (and passing through) a list of certain countries. To quote @Doughnut NZ it is "eminently reasonable" to expect this.
A difference with ourselves is the cost is met by the persons arriving and is non-refundable and therefore not met by the taxpayer.
The cost (for ten days and two tests) is commensurate to your own.

 
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Year of past OR future Camino
CF April 2016 April - Jun
Del Norte, Finesterre 2018 May - Jun
It is all whistling in the wind for Australians. From the Government website: There is a ban on overseas travel from Australia.

We can go to New Zealand if they will have us. We can apply for an exemption to travel to other places on compassionate and a few other grounds, but we might not be able to get back. If we do we will be subject to 14 days (at least) in government run hotel quarantine, for which we will have to pay.

In some ways it makes it easier because there is no decision to be made. Still dreaming though!
It certainly takes the decision to travel out of our hands, but wouldn't have it any other way!
However, we keep dreaming of overseas travel esp to Spain but luckily we have a big country to explore or in my case a huge WA state with no restrictions.
🐤Easter blessings to all....Lori 👣👣
 
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Not only the Spanish rules are kind of crazy.....

We are allowed to flight to Mallorca, stay in a big hotel with big dinning rooms, restaurants ........ and come back without going in quarantine!
The politicians say it's not legally possible in Germany to ban someone from leaving for another country and if they let you in somewhere else and the hotels are open, you're lucky.

But we are not aloud to stay in a hotel or visit a restaurant in Germany and even renting a holiday house with a kitchen, almost like at home, is not possible in the whole country. In Germany everything is closed.

Even in normal years nearly everything is closed on every normal Sunday and public holiday, including Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Easter Monday - German Sundays and public holidays also apply to employees in shops - I love it!!!
So there would not even be the possibility of doing anything at the holiday resort other than sitting with the family in the holiday home, enjoying the time and go for an Easter walk- like at home.
Unfortunately forbidden.

Especially the people in the German tourist areas are very upset.

Sometimes I am not surprised that the acceptance of the corona rules in Germany and many other countries is decreasing more and more.
Ay Dios mio!
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Not only the Spanish rules are kind of crazy.....

We are allowed to flight to Mallorca, stay in a big hotel with big dinning rooms, restaurants ........ and come back without going in quarantine!
The politicians say it's not legally possible in Germany to ban someone from leaving for another country and if they let you in somewhere else and the hotels are open, you're lucky.

But we are not aloud to stay in a hotel or visit a restaurant in Germany and even renting a holiday house with a kitchen, almost like at home, is not possible in the whole country. In Germany everything is closed.

Even in normal years nearly everything is closed on every normal Sunday and public holiday, including Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Easter Monday - German Sundays and public holidays also apply to employees in shops - I love it!!!
So there would not even be the possibility of doing anything at the holiday resort other than sitting with the family in the holiday home, enjoying the time and go for an Easter walk- like at home.
Unfortunately forbidden.

Especially the people in the German tourist areas are very upset.

Sometimes I am not surprised that the acceptance of the corona rules in Germany and many other countries is decreasing more and more.
Still shaking my head in disbelief.
Perhaps the irony isn't that we have a virus problem but a people problem.
 

Ronald Boivin

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2021
Today I read in the news that the Spanish Government will open its doors to travellers from the UK from March 31.
However in the very same paper I read the news that the UK Government has blocked external travel from the UK, except in very highly defined instances, imposing £5000 fines on those who do travel for purposes outside those defined instances.

Whereas I totally agree with the UK stance on non essential travel, which has been seen to spread variants that may lead to innocent people dying, I contrarily also see and agree with the economic aspects looked at by the Spanish Government.

I am resigned to not even attempting to travel this year.

I am probably more worried that I can hold opposing views on this matter in my head, at the same time.😁
Dear Jimmy. Indeed there is an abundance of seemingly contradictory and ironic information. The good news emanating from this laden cornucopia is having to think for oneself and decipher which dishes to cook. If this helps: I have decided to wait until end of summer to do the Camino Mozarabe from Canada. This creative virus evolves weekly and should not trick us in making decisions one year in advance.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
A word of caution as to the end of March: there are currently two travel bans imposed by Spain on travellers from the UK. One of them, the stricter one, will end on the 30th of March and the Spanish government has announced that it will not be prolonged. As to the other entry ban ... I wouldn't hold my breath.
I am glad that I didn't hold my breath: Spain's general entry ban on people who do not live in EU+ has been prolonged today until the end of April 2021. This general entry ban applies to people who live in the UK, with the exception of people who live there but hold a passport of an EU country or a residency card of an EU country - this group will now be allowed to travel again from the UK to Spain as of 31 March 2021, as far as the authorities in Spain are concerned.

I've been trying to keep track and have just posted yet another update with links to the current rules imposted by Spain (post does not contain links to what one can read in the news ;)). This concerns the view from Spain's side of their sea, air and land borders. Everyone needs to keep track themselves of what it looks like from their side of these borders.

After more than one year of all this, many people know by now that they may be allowed to leave their country or their region while the country or region on the other side of the border may not let them in and vice versa. Especially those of us who live in not so huge countries that share a common border with a number of neighbouring countries. France has borders with 7 different neighbours (not including the micro states) and Germany has borders with 9 different neighbours, and even a smaller country like Austria has 8. That allows for a lot of different combinations of exit/entry bans. And that's only their land borders and not their sea and air borders. :cool:

 
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Gerard Griffin

New Member
Today I read in the news that the Spanish Government will open its doors to travellers from the UK from March 31.
However in the very same paper I read the news that the UK Government has blocked external travel from the UK, except in very highly defined instances, imposing £5000 fines on those who do travel for purposes outside those defined instances.

Whereas I totally agree with the UK stance on non essential travel, which has been seen to spread variants that may lead to innocent people dying, I contrarily also see and agree with the economic aspects looked at by the Spanish Government.

I am resigned to not even attempting to travel this year.

I am probably more worried that I can hold opposing views on this matter in my head, at the same time.😁
Today I read in the news that the Spanish Government will open its doors to travellers from the UK from March 31.
However in the very same paper I read the news that the UK Government has blocked external travel from the UK, except in very highly defined instances, imposing £5000 fines on those who do travel for purposes outside those defined instances.

Whereas I totally agree with the UK stance on non essential travel, which has been seen to spread variants that may lead to innocent people dying, I contrarily also see and agree with the economic aspects looked at by the Spanish Government.

I am resigned to not even attempting to travel this year.

I am probably more worried that I can hold opposing views on this matter in my head, at the same time.😁


If the Black Death didn't stop the Camino then why must Covid? We need it now more than ever. In which spirit I started the VDP last Thursday and have reached Monasterio. It's wonderful to be back. There are even some hostels open, and nearly all guesthouses and hotels. Camping out is very easy as well. To those who may be vacillating, I'd say: don't wait, just go. Now is the time.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
If the Black Death didn't stop the Camino then why must Covid? We need it now more than ever. In which spirit I started the VDP last Thursday and have reached Monasterio. It's wonderful to be back. There are even some hostels open, and nearly all guesthouses and hotels. Camping out is very easy as well. To those who may be vacillating, I'd say: don't wait, just go. Now is the time.
Well, that should enliven the conversation ... welcome to the discussion, @Gerard Griffin. I'm glad to read in a previous post from you what your own passport/leaving own country/entering Spain or Portugal situation is. It just makes understanding comments so much easier on this international forum. At least you are not a German tourist on Mallora or a French tourist in Madrid. They are the real pariahs on the forum of public and private opinion right now 😐. Just curious: Any concerns about future hotel bills?
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
If the Black Death didn't stop the Camino then why must Covid? We need it now more than ever. In which spirit I started the VDP last Thursday and have reached Monasterio. It's wonderful to be back. There are even some hostels open, and nearly all guesthouses and hotels. Camping out is very easy as well. To those who may be vacillating, I'd say: don't wait, just go. Now is the time.
BTW, what do you mean with "if the Black Death didn't stop the Camino"? Caminos are roads, of course a disease can't stop roads. And people in the Middle Ages weren't daft either: they closed the doors in their town walls and did't let any foreigner in, not even a pilgrim. Town walls have of course largely disappeared during the last 600+ years. You'd be surprised how many restrictions on people and goods traffic were imposed by some medieval towns then that aren't any different from today. We all are immensely privileged today. We enjoy the luxury of worrying about the occupancy rate of beds in intensive care units. We also have the luxury of being able to tolerate a few not following the urgent advice to avoid non-essential travel. It's manageable as long as they are not too many ...
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I think to have been continually told that you are not invited to come to a party when you have already said that you are unable and unwilling to come is to misunderstand irony.
Spain doesn't care about this. They make their own rules. Then they publish them in their state bulletin. Month after month, with start and end dates. Pedro Sanchez rarely stages TV performances about all this. Different strokes for different folks.

The main point is, however, that the premise of this thread that the Spanish Government will open its doors to travellers from the UK from March 31 is plain wrong.

But it was good for 60 posts so far. @nicollb's comment about being able to hold conflicting views at the same time is a sign of spiritual development -- non-dual thinking made me giggle. 😇
 
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The main point is, however, that the premise of this thread that the Spanish Government will open its doors to travellers from the UK from March 31 is plain wrong.
Oh? It was true on the day I actually wrote the original thread. A cursory glance at official documents would have confirmed that fact. Sorry that I didn't think to update that fact! But the thrust of the missive was the fact that the rules taken as a pair were contradictory, whereas, separately for each nation made perfect sense at the time.
 
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Kathar1na

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To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Next, get to Spain. Circumvent all restrictions, eg if in UK, fly to Eire and then to Spain
Sorry but even if you manage to do this, which I doubt, i.e. if airline staff would let you board, it is clearly against the law. Against Spanish law. What matters is not your last airport (Ireland) but where you come from (UK).

So you are in Spain and you walk and it's wonderful. And you know why it works and why it doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things? Because there are so few of you. Let the whole usual April or May crowd come, even when they all bring tents, and the situation may change quickly enough so that you will end your pilgrimage with a lovely 18-days stay at a Dublin Sheraton for €1.875,00 a pop. Buen Camino!
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
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Oh? It was true on the day I actually wrote the original thread.
No, it wasn't true on the day you started the thread. It only sounded as if it were true because of the way newspapers understood/presented a press release from the Spanish government. I am sure that a lot of readers had been misled.

I understand what you are saying about contradictions, of course. That's why it's usually nonsense when people say "the borders are closed". We've now had a whole year to learn that first of all, they usually aren't closed for everyone and secondly they may be closed from one side but not from the other. And there's usually nobody there to check on you (ok, that does not apply to small and large island nations) and there's no physical barrier to stop you.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Year of past OR future Camino
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
I've been trying to keep track and have just posted yet another update with links to the current rules imposted by Spain (post does not contain links to what one can read in the news ;)). This concerns the view from Spain's side of their sea, air and land borders. Everyone needs to keep track themselves of what it looks like from their side of these borders.
From the start, Kathar1na, this has been a difficult exercise in the separation of fact from rumour and speculation.

Nevertheless, it does seem that there are local, seasonal characteristics to the incidence of this disease, so that until it shall have subsided, else have been limited naturally and artificially (vaccines) in herd resistance/immunity, then pilgrimages outside of the normal respiratory diseases season should IMO be preferred : i.e. in Summer rather than Winter.

Of course, that's not much help to those pilgrims outside of Continental Europe.

Particularly not those in the Southern Hemisphere whose respiratory diseases season is simultaneous with the Spanish Summer.
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Keep it simple. First, make sure you're safe and not putting others at risk (vaccine, PCR test, 3 meters distance, surgical mask). Next, get to Spain. Circumvent all restrictions, eg if in UK, fly to Eire and then to Spain (10 euro Dublin to Malaga 😎). Next, set off on the Camino. No hostel? Take a hotel if you can afford it, tent or bivi bag if not). Let's get this show on the road. Pay no attention to irrational fear or the machinations of bureaucrats. Of you want to go on Camino, go. You can. You need the Camino and it needs you. Go now. I did ... I started the VDP five days ago and it's fantastic. Arriba!
Sorry, I don't get this.
 

JabbaPapa

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Year of past OR future Camino
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Circumvent all restrictions, eg if in UK, fly to Eire and then to Spain
There is a specific UK/Eire/EU protocol in place to stop people attempting this.

The only potential "dodge" that I am aware of, I will not detail -- as I refuse to encourage people to disregard the law.
 
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JabbaPapa

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Gerald's comment is only the first of many similar posts to come in the next few weeks. Brace yourselves.
I do understand and sympathise with the sentiment of it -- indeed I plan on restarting my own current Camino just as soon as it shall become legally and sensibly possible to do that.

Which in my particular circumstance might be sooner rather than later.

But to willfully violate the Law outside of trivial circumstance is not much in the spirit of the Way of Saint James.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
Awwwww. I'm braced and a little despondent.
There are two things that annoy me about these freedom fighter posts: first that those of us who don't go live in irrational fear or bow to the will of stupid bureaucrats. As if there are no such things as a sense of responsibility, a sense of solidarity, a willingness to voluntarily sacrifice and renunciation. And the pseudo argument that our pilgrim cents are needed to save the local economies abroad. As if they wouldn't also help to save the local economies at home.
 

Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
There are two things that annoy me about these freedom fighter posts: first that those of us who don't go live in irrational fear or bow to the will of stupid bureaucrats. As if there are no such things as a sense of responsibility, a sense of solidarity, a willingness to voluntarily sacrifice and renunciation. And the pseudo argument that our pilgrim cents are needed to save the local economies abroad. As if they wouldn't also help to save the local economies at home.
There is more to mandatory/legislative requirements. There are moral codes as well.
I am struggling to either "understand or sympathise" sometimes.
I wish you well.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
There is more to mandatory/legislative requirements. There are moral codes as well.
I am struggling to either "understand or sympathise" sometimes. I wish you well.
Describing mandatory or legislative requirements doesn't mean that the poster approves of them or condemns them. She may just want to clarify the actual situation to the best of her abilities, making value-free statements. True Sisyphus work on the net.
 
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Bristle Boy

Active Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2022
Describing mandatory or legislative requirements doesn't mean that the poster approves of them or condemns them. She may just want to clarify the actual situation to the best of her abilities. True Sisyphus work on the net.
I guess that whether we approve or disapprove might not be the important issue...we just have to comply.
There are so many things (and I'm not alone obviously) that I would like to do.
I would like to spend time with my grandson...I'm missing a lot of that.
I'm doing my best.

Edit; I havent read Camus...perhaps I should try it.
 
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No, it wasn't true on the day you started the thread. It only sounded as if it were true because of the way newspapers understood/presented a press release from the Spanish government. I am sure that a lot of readers had been misled.

I understand what you are saying about contradictions, of course. That's why it's usually nonsense when people say "the borders are closed". We've now had a whole year to learn that first of all, they usually aren't closed for everyone and secondly they may be closed from one side but not from the other. And there's usually nobody there to check on you (ok, that does not apply to small and large island nations) and there's no physical barrier to stop you.
Why not read the source? The newspapers may have put a particular twist on the matter, but it was based on exactly what the Spanish Government stated. I have enough Castillian Spanish to be able to read the actual documents having been educated to BACC level in Spain. To accuse me of lying and twisting the original post to the lengths you have is quite puzzling.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I said: I am sure that a lot of readers had been mislead.
 
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Year of past OR future Camino
2012
Gently Pilgrims, gently. Personalized disagreements never look pretty on a public forum.
I think we can all agree that the information available to us is open to interpretation, frequently contradictory and frustrating at best.
And if the “freedom fighters” are determined to do their level best to screw things up for the rest of us... well, it’s a free world as I’m sure they’ll tell me
 
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The topic was about holding and justifying two opposed ideas at the same time, the Irony was the Governmental situation in two countries that in practice were impossible to reconcile. The fact is only a couple of folks saw that point. To be accused of an untruth is the same as be accused of lying.

Tinca as moderator you have every right to post a warning. As far as I am concerned you can delete the whole thread. I am Not a "freedom fighter", I never at any time suggested breaking the rules or even criticising the rules, nor am I a liar.
 

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Bristle Boy

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The topic was about holding and justifying two opposed ideas at the same time, the Irony was the Governmental situation in two countries that in practice were impossible to reconcile. The fact is only a couple of folks saw that point. To be accused of an untruth is the same as be accused of lying.

Tinca as moderator you have every right to post a warning. As far as I am concerned you can delete the whole thread. I am Not a "freedom fighter", I never at any time suggested breaking the rules or even criticising the rules, nor am I a liar.
@Jimmy Smith, my post wasn't "aimed" at you. It was intended as a gentle nudge to remind all contributors that these are troubled, and troubling times. Though this is an English language forum not all members come here with english as a first language and the intricacies of english grammar frequently defeat this english grammar schoolboy. The meaning of meaning and what was meant have led us all at times into unpleasant places. A deep breath and another attempt at explanation are always worthwhile. I once asked a previously friendly gentleman if I could sleep with his son - meaning share the room - I used the wrong verb.

My "Freedom Fighter" reference most definitely was not aimed at you. Hopefully the real target felt the barb
 

Kathar1na

Member
Year of past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
And nor did I accuse anyone of lying or speaking an untruth. How could this turn into such a controversial exchange? Yes, last week the Spanish government announced that they will lift restrictions on flights from the UK. Yes, newspapers reported this. Yes, it's easy to think that this means they will lift all restrictions on people coming from the UK. Except that the Spanish government was speaking only of the very specific restrictions that they had put in place around Christmas. And not of the other restrictions that they prolonged today. I wish I hadn't said anything at all last week. 'cause this is what I wrote last Tuesday in post #5 in all innocence: A word of caution as to the end of March: there are currently two travel bans imposed by Spain on travellers from the UK. One of them, the stricter one, will end on the 30th of March and the Spanish government has announced that it will not be prolonged. As to the other entry ban ... I wouldn't hold my breath.

We are all looking for signals telling us that things are getting better concerning travel to Spain and travel in Spain. I was merely trying to correct the signalling a bit ...
 
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