• For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here.
    (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation)

Search 69,459 Camino Questions

Is "The Camino a Victim of It's Own Success"?

Priscillian

Veteran Member
Time of past OR future Camino
Frances 1999, Aragones 2000, Desde Le Puy 2002, Portuguese 2009, hoping RDLP 2014
With the promotion of El Báculo de Santiago, the Spanish publication of St James' Rooster, this was the question I was most asked by the media. I have my own opinion. What is yours? And why? Your input will be very helpful for a planned keynote speech and discussion coming up in Santiago in June to coincide with the 1st Film Festival, so thank you in advance for your participation. Tracy Saunders
 
A selection of Camino Jewellery
Well first we have to ask whether it is a victim of anything. Or if it's providing opportunities and facilities for local people who otherwise may not have any.

Is it providing people with a way to connect with their spirituality in a secular western world?

Is it so overpopulated that pilgrims are sleeping in alleyways?

Has the increased requirement for accommodation led to lots of concrete hotels being built, or old buildings being restored?

Are we so seduced by gift shops along the way that we arrive in Santiago with packs weighing 100kgs?

I don't know the answer, really. Buen Camino! :D
 
there are a number of villages along the Camino, O Cebreiro surely being one, which would be dead by now without the Camino.

I think a more interesting question is, are there more walkers than pilgrims along the route? I do not count the issuing of Compostella's as an answer. By now most people on the Camino will know that if they say they walked for religious reasons they will be granted the Compsotella, even if they were simply walking.

It would be interesting to have a drop box in the Pilgrims Office where people could annonymously fill in a form about their true motivation.

Certainly in 1998 when I walked 300km of the Camino, I met only two people who admitted they were walkers. My journeys from 2004 suggest there are now considerably more walkers, but without hard statistical evidence it is difficult to know the answer.

There will be those who simply walked and did not attend the Pilgrim's Office to collect any kind of certificate.

There is also the aspect that the Spanish tourist boards are also promoting the Camino. I have a huge advert from one of our UK quality newspapers in one of my archival boxes. You could argue it is not the victim of its own success but of a well orchestrated marketing campaign.

I believe that students attending a Spanish University can obtain credits towards their final degree by walking the Camino. What part do they play in the growth of the Camino.

I agree with Tyrrek that as pilgrim numbers have gone up so have the number of albergues providing beds. Has this alleviated the practice of people leaving at 4.00am in the mornng to make sure they get a bed rather than sleep on the floor or is it as bad as ever?

It is not just the numbers it is now pilgrims treat one another and how they walk their Camino?

Are the gowing numbers also seeing a growth in discorteous behavious as people feel under pressure?

Not sure if this helps but you did ask. :mrgreen:

Happy to continue the conversation if requested.
 
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-
This question has been asked many times albeit in difference ways.
Read Laurie Dennett's article "Spirit of the Camino' written in 1997. http://www.csj.org.uk/spirit.htm

I asked similar questions in 2008 in a blog post called 'Back to the Past'
http://amawalker.blogspot.com/2008/10/back-to-past.html

When you consider that approx. 10 million pilgrims visited Santiago in the 2010 Holy Year only 2.5% were 'Camino' pilgrims earning a Compostela (52% or more walking less than 150km) the 'walkers' are a miniscule number.

The Camino isn't a victim and hasn't nearly reached saturation point!
 
Some really great points being made and I hope you will all keep them coming.
What I found fascinating was that the press almost seemed to WANT me to criticise the - what I am going to call - "New Camino": i.e. not just post 1993 when the Xunta got involved but in particular this century. When I walked first in 1999 I was hardly alone; but the official Cathedral/Pilgrim's Office statistics have increased X-fold since then and that does not include those who are "on the Camino" at any given time and in particular, from my own point of interest, on their way to Fisterra and Muxia.
Films such as The Way and books written in German and Korean (and I hope my own too!) DO seem to be having an impact not just on numbers and nationalities but perhaps even more so on REASONS for walking the Camino. At one point I would have written "Pilgrimage" but even with a lower case "p", this no longer seems to be the case.
Is the Camino a "New Age" phenomenon? If no, then why are so many people from such different backgrounds walking a "Catholic" route? Or is it the Celtic Route they follow? To the Lands of the Dead at the End of the World (which I now proudly call my home - despite the rain!)
Yes, Sil, the Camino is here to stay...but what more fascinating anachronism than what appears to be a develoiping "secular" pilgrimage? How do we explain it?
The Happy Heretic strikes again. :wink:
Your comments, please....
 
Aaaaargh! Just noticed the grammatical error in the title; one I know only too well.
Oh the shame of it!
Make that ... of Its Own Success"?
:oops:
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
Dear Happy Heretic,

Don't forget the Brazilians following the book by Paul C... you know who I mean. I've read it but can't remember his surname.

If you want an outdoor, walking holiday with a well defined trail, a good infrastructure, plenty of potential help, a contrast of scenery, weather, art, architecture, botany, wildlife - and you want to do it for under 30€ a day and a limit of 1,000€ where else would you find it?

A secular journey based on the above reasons might explain the Camino's growth.

I have taken to walking out of season to avoid two things. People and bed bugs.
 
I suppose that if someone believes the Camino should be exclusively a Catholic or Christian thing they may see a problem, as many people's reasons are more secular. However, that's the same for people visiting churches/cathedrals/mosques etc while on their travels.

While I'm not a Muslim (I'm Catholic) I can enjoy visiting a mosque if I go to Istanbul, for example. It takes nothing away from that mosque, and I will make a special effort to respect it and the people in it. I think a similar thing applies to the Camino. People make a special effort to be sensitive to each other and our different purposes. Even if we don't have a formal religion or spirituality, we do all have spirit. That's what the Camino seems to bring out.

Buen Camino!
 
In May I will be walking from Le Puy to Figeac then up to Limoges.I am not doing it as a pilgrimage and don't really care if it is a pilgrim trail or not,it is a beautiful part of France ( I have driven round the area a lot, never walked it) A lot of people walk these areas because they like to walk and enjoy the peace,beauty,and tranquility......you don't HAVE to be a Pilgrim to walk and enjoy the GRs in France.......... Vicr
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
In my experience, most of the walkers in France are not pilgrims, even on the pilgrim routes from Le Puy, Arles, and Vezelay. That said, the gites d'etapes usually require a credential, so many have it even with no Santiago goal in mind.

The pilgrimage is not a "victim of success." Past pilgrims' concepts may be a victim. "How dare you walk MY pilgrimage and create crowds and economic success." Personally, it deserves to be a victim. :twisted:
 
Why is it more people walk the Spanish part,not the French part', is it because it's more trendy/cheaper/closer to Santiago/always wanted to go to Spain............just interested !!! :) ....Vicr
 
Ideal pocket guides for during & after your Camino. Each weighs only 1.4 oz (40g)!
For the OP: To be a "victim of one's success" implies some sort of failure. And although I have not walked the section in Spain, based on the eyewitness reports here, I would have to say the Camino is, in fact, a booming success in very many ways (several of which have already been mentioned here). The success is evident in terms of tourism and economic development; I suspect that there is more spiritual "success" than is readily apparent. I would guess there is a richer spiritual life (note I did not say "religious") in a rapidly secularizing Europe as a consequence of the widespread Camino experience.
 
We might be from different continents, nationalities, cultures, colours and belief systems but "The Camino" has resulted in a common physiognomy to Europe and specifically to Spain.
All barriers are broken down and Everyman is pilgrim. This could be the greatest success of the Camino pilgrimage.
 
One good thing about the rise in numbers is that the expansion of bars, accomodation and infrastructure probably means that people, who perhaps could not have walked in the past, can now do so.

There are more places to rest, I find I do not have to carry so much food and water because it is not as far to the next bar, there is much choice of food and shops.

It provides employment to people in an economically challenged part of Spain. It keeps villages alive. There are advantages to both pilgrim and supplier.

For better, or worse, more people providing services along the Camino speak English. Not needing to learn much Spanish is probably not a good thing, but it gives people with little language skills the opportuntity to walk. (Priscillian, a language teacher will not want to hear that.)

Some of the walkers have been a pain in my backside, but then so have some of those who are walking for spiritual reasons - and I probably have unintentionally wound a few people up myself.

The Camino has lessons for all if we are open to learn. Walkers may not come back better spiritually, but if they return as a more sensitive, caring, thoughtful person then their journey has been a positive experience.

As a once fairly middle of the road, Bible believing, Protestant minister I am now driving people crazy with the mysticism I accidently developed along the Camino, but which satisfies me deeply.

It is too early to say the Camino is a victim. It is still in the process of evolving

Think about putting this question on its head.

Is Europe the victim of the Camino's success?

There are those who argued that as medeival pilgrims travlled to St James they shared stories, ideas, music, culture, art, architecture and, above all, they understood that their neighbours from other countries were not that different.

Out of their journeying a concept and consciousness of Europe began to emerge.

One of the reasons the UK is so hostile to Europe is that we are an island and it does not give us the "rubbing shoulders" that those in mainland Europe experience.

Travel not only broadens the horizons it may well be the Camino which was the cradle of European cooperation.

That unifying aspect is still occuring today.

If all the people currenlty on the Camino were popped into a tourist area of a major city, how many of them would speak to one another as they do on the Camino?

Would we get to know about so many other cultures and countries from the viewpoint of ordinary people if we did not walk the Camino? We may only catch a fleeting glance but it comes from the source and not filtered by the media.

Just a bit more for the Happy Heretic to ponder. :lol:
 
New Original Camino Gear Designed Especially with The Modern Peregrino In Mind!
BTW: I am deliberately not defending an opinion here as the question does not presuppose I have an answer. I don't. I can just as easily defend the Camino (more easily) as I can condemn certain aspects of its promotion and popularity and exploitation on the part of many with vested interests.
Just being Devil's Advocate, as usual. I haven´t stirred enough up around here lately. You're all back to talking GoreTex and bedbugs again.
:wink:
 
Why the criticism? I don't think anyone mentioned Goretex or bedbugs. :? Buen Camino!
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
The popularity of the Camino de Santiago is opening up other routes to Santiago and helping to renew interest in the Via Francigena, Fatima, Finisterre etc. It's giving more exposure to the GR network and stimulating interest in traditional non-pilgrim tracks like the Regordane and Stevenson. All good.

As to our motives and purity of purpose, they have always been very mixed. A bloke called Geoffrey Chaucer suspected as much about pilgrims, and he published well before Paul Coelho or John Brierley.
 
You see!
Breaking News:
"Priscillian Stirs Up Pilgrims on Santiago Forum with Mention of Bedbugs and Goretex."
You guys just can´t resist Priscillian's challenge..... :arrow:
 
Priscillian said:
You guys just can´t resist Priscillian's challenge..... :arrow:
You asked what seemed at the time to be a genuine question. Other forum members took time to give considered responses. Not a word of thanks, just inventing a problem with the thread that didn't exist, then coming back to say how pleased with yourself you are. The only challenge is working out why. Buen Camino! :?
 
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-
Tyrrek, I find the above response very rude and I don´t know why you have chosen to make it here. Inventing a problem...? "Pleased with myself?" Excuse me? At one time the members of this Forum had a sense of humour! This most certainly IS a genuine question and I have written via PMs to some of the members who have written above. I do SO apologise if I didn´t thank you personally, but no matter what the situation, I see no reason why you would post something so obviously intended to hurt. You know nothing at all about me as a person so please don´t presume to analyse me or my comments which were meant to amuse not antagonise.
Somewhat unpilgrimlike behaviour, don´t you think...?
 
Priscillian said:
This most certainly IS a genuine question and I have written via PMs to some of the members who have written above.
Yes, it is genuine, but the "interpretations" of the Camino as documented by Johnny Walker's latest research http://johnnie-walker.blogspot.com are an indication of where the "walking the Camino" purposes might likely be going. The "walkers", which are gradually changing, do not necessarily make a "victim" of the Camino. In fact, they represent a potential revival of lost values. :)
 
Hi Priscillian. I'm sorry you find my response rude, but I'm afraid I stick by it. Quote me the lines on this thread that relate to bedbugs and Goretex and I'll eat my words with humility.

I never expect a personal thanks for any comments I post - that's not the nature of a forum, although it's nice when it happens.

As for unpilgrim-like behaviour, I disagree. Pilgrims have to be a little bit assertive and determined. I don't think our words should be dismissed in the way that you (probably unintentionally) did. I hope we don't start a fight, because I like your posts! :D God Bless and Buen Camino!
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
For the love of God, it was a JOKE!
Priscillian over and OUT.
 
Re: Is "The Camino a Victim of Its Own Success"?

Posted yesterday on Facebook by my friend and past (I believe first) president of the Amigos del Camino in Galicia. I may be wrong but I think that Jose was with Elias Valiña when the first yellow arrows were painted many, many pilgrim moons ago. Here is a man who knows what he is talking about. It is in Spanish, but if you plug it into Google translate you'll get an idea of what Jose is so angry about. Is he right? Who does the Camino "belong to" these days...? And what impact is that having? If there were no "Certificate" at the "end" of it, who would walk? Would you?
See also the thread on this Forum from last July 2012 on "Who makes up the rules about the Compostela?" (or something similar).

José de la Riera
El cáncer del Camino de Santiago. Tiene un nombre (también apellido) y se pronuncia en singular: “Compostela”. Es un papel reinventado en tiempos modernos que sustituye a las “patentes de confesión” que se les entregaba antiguamente a los peregrinos que llegaban a Santiago tras haberse confesado y comulgado en la catedral. Todos ellos portaban las famosas “cartas de presentación”, antecedentes de la actual credencial del peregrino (instaurada en su actual formato por las asociacones jacobeas en el Congreso de Jaca, 1987, impulsado por Elías Valiña y presentada en ponencia por la asociación palentina. Esa credencial – en su espíritu y formato – fue descaradamente robada , llamémosle “Pío Latrocinio”, por la catedral compostelana y la Oficina del Peregrino, tras conformidad del entonces presidente de la Federación Española de Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago, que era la institución madre que las imprimía y repartía entre sus asociaciones para entrega a los peregrinos)

Pero la madre de todas las batallas de la masificación, vulgarización, escarnio y remedo de la peregrinación jacobea no es la credencial, el cáncer está en la “Compostela todo a cien”, en los famosos últimos cien kilómetros para obtener el susodicho papelote de coleccionista de parque temático. A tal punto que, para una mayoría de gente que pasa por el Camino (peregrino es otra cosa), el Camino de Santiago se reduce estrictamente a los últimos cien kilómetros gallegos. ¿Y por qué? Porque lo único que les interesa del Camino de Santiago (aunque tengan que andar de noche y pisar cabezas para obtener una cama) es el susodicho papelote. ¿Absurdo? Tal vez, pero esa es la condición humana. Un espacio de paz y espiritualidad lo están convirtiendo en un lugar insolidario donde toda carrera tiene su asiento. El Camino es búsqueda y desprendimiento, pero estos no se desprenden de nada, ni tienen tiempo, ni tampoco ganas, cargan en sus mochilas los mismos malos rollos de su vida cotidiana. Y de paso, se cargan el Camino de Santiago, para ellos un clineex de usar y tirar, un objeto más de consumo de la estúpida cultureta del ocio: “el Caminito de la señorita Pepis” De la Hospitalidad en esos últimos kilómetros más vale largar un tupido velo: el peregrino es sólo un bulto sospechoso al que hay que desvalijar los más pronto posible, es ave de paso.

¿Y el culpable? Nombre y apellidos: Jaime García, canónigo responsable de la acogida al peregrino durante los primeros años del renacimiento de la peregrinación jacobea y también su sucesor, don Jenaro Cebrián. ¿Motivos? Bastante prosaicos: las estadísticas. Las estadísticas que muestran y demuestran (mientras las carcajadas llegan hasta Roncesvalles) que el 90 o 95 por ciento de los peregrinos hacen el Camino por motivos religiosos (en sentido estricto del término) El peregrino se mueve por mitos (la Cruz de Ferro es uno de ellos, la “Compostela” otro más) y el peregrino mata o, si es preciso miente como un bellaco, con tal de que no se le escapen esos mitos. Y eso en lo que afecta los propios peregrinos. De “los que pasan por el Camino” ya ni hablar, esos sólo quieren el papelote para enseñarlo a la suegra, nada más, pero tampoco nada menos. Así que todo dios miente, y el que no lo crea que baje al Camino y hable con la gente. Pero la Catedral y su Oficina se reafirman (erróneamente y, en mi opinión, con un cinismo digno de mejor causa) en la “cristiandad” de la peregrinación basándose, precisamente, en esas estadísticas derivada de la entrega de las Compostelas. ¿A quién coño pretenden engañar? Y, sobre todo, ¿a costa de qué?, ¿de cargarse el Camino de Santiago? El que esto escribe ha hablado largamente del tema tanto con Jaime García como con Jenaro Cebrián. Jaime García ni siquiera lo discutía “porque sí y basta” pero don Jenaro (bastante más humano y bastante más cercano) lo justificaba en la cantidad de “conversiones” que proporcionaba la facilidad en que todo el mundo obtuviera cómodamente la Compostela. Tal cual.

Y así, el Camino queda reducido para mucha gente, a los últimos tramos gallegos y a un absoluto infierno para los peregrinos (siempre teniendo claro que un peregrino tiene poco que ver con esos miles que “pasan por el Camino” en esos últimos cien kilómetros). En un parque temático con salvoconducto (credencial) expedido ya en kioskos y peluquerías, tanto da. Y con premio final en forma de documento cada vez más infravalorado y absurdo. Y, todo ello, claro, con el visto bueno de las autoridades gallegas, encantadas en que el grueso de “la masa” se concentre exclusivamente en Galicia (y me importa un carallo decir esto, soy gallego, pero ruedas de molino las justas)

Uno ya no tiene, ni quiere, puesto ejecutivo alguno en el día a día del Camino de Santiago, pero pienso que ya es hora de que esas asociaciones jacobeas tan “implicadas” con el Camino de Santiago y esos peregrinos que tanto quieren al Camino (y tanto se quejan sin dar palo al agua), presenten un documento conjunto con las cientos o miles de firmas que sean necesarias para presentar al señor arzobispo, al cabildo, a la Xunta de Galicia y a la prensa, pero sobre todo al principal culpable, la Catedral de Santiago y sus organismos cercanos a la peregrinación, rogando que, de una vez por todas, no contribuyan a la destrucción galopante de la peregrinación dignificando la Compostela con un mínimo, al menos, de doscientos kilómetros a pie. Harán lo que quieran, claro, la “Compostela” es suya, pero al menos que sepan de primera mano lo de las “ruedas de molino”. Claro está (Sarria, Tui, Ferrol...) que habrá gente que ponga el grito en el cielo. Pero el Camino no es suyo, ni siquiera de la propia Catedral de Santiago. Y ahora que llueva o que me llamen pureta o talibán, se me da un ardite, pero esto es ya un absoluto desastre y se debe decir, siempre, lo que se siente. DELENDA EST "COMPOSTELA".
 

Most read last week in this forum

Last year on my camino I was a bit annoyed when someone back home told me to enjoy my vacation. I bristled. Why did that word annoy me so much? I was on a pilgrimage! Anyway, I'm about to embark...
I'm looking for the best app to use whilst walking on the Camino. Usually I just rely on my Apple watch but I'm leaving that at home, so need an app use that I can pause at rest stops etc...
Everyone talks about the wonderful café con leche, but what if tea is more to your liking? Can you even get tea along the Camino (Frances)? I don’t drink coffee but my morning cup of tea is...
Hey all. I haven't been on the forum for quite sometime (years probably). I walked the Camino Frances in 2016 and to say it was life changing for me is an understatement. On day 3, at the café at...
I am just back from a few weeks on the Via the la Plata. Since 2015 I have been nearly every year in Spain walking caminoroutes I loved the café con leches. This year I did not like them as much...
Forgive me if already in a thread somewhere, but any search for the above brings up basically every post ever written! Did anyone get to see the premiere? Dying to know what it's like as the...

❓How to ask a question

How to post a new question on the Camino Forum.

Similar threads

Forum Rules

Forum Rules

Camino Updates on YouTube

Camino Conversations

Most downloaded Resources

This site is run by Ivar at

in Santiago de Compostela.
This site participates in the Amazon Affiliate program, designed to provide a means for Ivar to earn fees by linking to Amazon
Official Camino Passport (Credential) | 2024 Camino Guides
Back
Top