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Is there really a difference between men's and women's shoes?

Hal

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
si
Apart from the respective lashings of navy blue and neon pink, I mean.

At my last fitting for sneaks, the Canadian Adidas dude was horrified at my eagerness to try on a men's pair ( I do measure an impressive 41.5, after all). Our feet are appropriately different, he told me. As it turns out the shoes he sold me stubbed my big toe so I offloaded them to my mum, but my question remains.

I have wide feet and insanely high arches.

I will be fitted for some new (Camino unrelated) trail runners this week, so I was just wondering if the shoe experts among us has any data I can quip out at a salesman.
 

koilife

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF w/ son #1 (2013); Logrono-Leon/Salvador/Primitivo w/ son #2 (2016)
The real question is fit. The last for men is almost certainly different than the last for women, but different lasts are often used for different models by the same brand for the same sex. Set against that are billions of unique feet that must, more or less, conform to the last. If conformity is close enough, there are few problems. If not, then problems ensue, and a different last (typically necessitating a different model or brand) is needed. Commercial (e.g. Superfeet) or custom (e.g. heat molded) inserts may help bridge the gap.

I would suggest that you stubbed your toe because you had either poor fit (not long enough) or poor lacing technique (heel is not locked and so foot slides forward). My wife wears men's trail shoes as her foot tends to be wider and they tend to fit her better.

Any sales person trying to force the foot to fit the shoe probably isn't worth spending money with. I'd recommend going to a store the specializes in running and carries many different brands. In my experience, these tend to be much more focused on finding what works for the person, rather than trying to force the person conform to some specific preconceived notion of what they should need.
 

Hal

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
si
Those sneakers were definitely was not long enough. I had about a little wiggle roomn which mean nothing walking downhill. "But it will stretch", he told me. Nope. He was a college kid in a superstore and not a pro.

But luckily I have made an appt with the brand rep in the outdoors store, so I ought to be in luck.

I do intend to watch some of vids on YouTube of boot lacing technique to best support the heel, because she seemed a little vague when I described it to her but my description could well be to blame.

I'll definately keep an open mind to men's shoes of the women's do not feel right.
 

Anniesantiago

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 was Camino #14
Apart from the respective lashings of navy blue and neon pink, I mean.

At my last fitting for sneaks, the Canadian Adidas dude was horrified at my eagerness to try on a men's pair ( I do measure an impressive 41.5, after all). Our feet are appropriately different, he told me. As it turns out the shoes he sold me stubbed my big toe so I offloaded them to my mum, but my question remains.

I have wide feet and insanely high arches.

I will be fitted for some new (Camino unrelated) trail runners this week, so I was just wondering if the shoe experts among us has any data I can quip out at a salesman.
I have feet exactly like you have described.
I generally wear a women's 6 wide but I fit quite comfortably in a BOY's 4 because they are wide and have a deep toe box.
I think you should just get the shoes that feel the best!
 

C clearly

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
I so agree with @koilife 's summary and, as @Anniesantiago said "just get the shoes that feel the best!" Comfort is everything on the camino. You have had a lifetime to learn about your feet, whereas sales people can only give you generalities and suggestions. Bodies and their parts come in all shapes and sizes, whether male or female!

I have a wide foot and high arch, but men's shoes tend to be too wide in the heel and back of shoe.
 

GettingThere

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Roncesvalles-SdC Apr-Jun 2015
Roncesvalles-Sarria Sep-Oct 2017
(Apr -Jun 2019: Roncesvalles-SdC)
I had difficulty finding shoes that fit me for the Camino as I have wide feet. I initially found a good fit with some New Balance women's trail runners, but then when they wore out (before I went on the Camino - an extra long training period due to a postponement!) I found that model was discontinued and that NB no longer imported the the wider fitting for women's trail shoes into NZ (bizarre since we have famously wide feet here!). I also need a bit of support around the back of my foot due to overpronation, and had already managed to give myself achilles tendinitis. I was lucky that my local sport shoe shop has a sports podiatrist on tap, and after a consultation with him he went through the store with me and the sales person, inspecting and rejecting shoes, occasionally passing me a pair to try, and he eventually picked up a pair of men's Asics runners (not trail runners). I tried them, walked up and down with these two guys squinting at my feet from behind and muttering to each other! And those were the ones pronounced right for my feet for what I needed to do with them (they knew about my Camino plans, and the sort of terrain I'd be covering). They were wide and very comfortable, I bought them to fit rather than extra big, although as I tried them on with my hiking socks they were bigger than I normally wear. They had quite a lot of mesh around the upper which meant they could expand with my foot. And I wore them on the Camino with no problems (and no blisters!)

I think feet are feet, and they are all a bit different. The shoe manufacturers must feel that there are enough basic differences between (most) men's and women's feet to justify a separate range of shoes, but I know a number of women who wear men's shoes because they can't find women's shoes that are wide enough, long enough or whatever. I think a lot of it is design and the whole thing about "standard" foot shapes and sizes - just like clothing sizes, reality can be somewhat different! And some of it is just marketing and fashion nonsense - have you noticed how men's shoes are not usually pink? And often look just that little bit more rugged? Anyway. if you have a sales person in a shoe store who seems in any way surprised or reluctant when you ask about men's shoes, that's a good sign they don't know much about shoes. Find a different store - and I also highly recommend a consultation with a sports podiatrist, just to discuss and get some good advice on the kind of shoe which would be best for your feet. Always sounds good if you can tell the salesperson "My sports podiatrist says...." (adding "so there" is optional!).

And I also took a "men's" Osprey backpack - the so-called "women's" packs were not comfortable at all.

Good luck with the shoe-fitting - stick to your guns about finding the best (gender-irrelevant!) shoes for you.
 

LesBrass

Likes Walking
Camino(s) past & future
yes...
I recently wrote to Keens with a question on sizing and they confirmed that their men's are a wider fit. This maybe just
Keens but I tend to buy a mans shoe just for that reason.

Good luck... I had real difficulty getting the right shoe... And buying the wrong pair is costly :confused:
 
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Hal

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
si
Funnily, I have some Keen's sandals. Or at least I think they could be called sandals as they are shaped like a regular sneaker with bits cut out of the sides. Super shoes. I think I bought them in DC on the way to Cuba where I spent a lot of time in the tropical forests. So comfy, too.

I guess they could do for a Camino (with socks for bad weather?) at least on certain days.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese.
I also buy men's shoes to get the extra width - I just have to watch that the heel is not too wide, which happens in some makes. I now do the same with my Ecco sandals, ie buy the mens.
 

jirit

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2007,
Via Francigena Italy, 2008,
Jakobsweg Austria 2010,
Camino Frances 2011,
Le Puy to Lourdes 2012,
Via de la Plata 2013,
Future:
Ökumenischer (Via Regia), Germany,
Lycian Way, Turkey
If they are anything like tops they lace up in the opposite direction

;)
 
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Lachance

Me llamo Deb
Camino(s) past & future
Part Francese 2016
I also buy men's shoes to get the extra width - I just have to watch that the heel is not too wide, which happens in some makes. I now do the same with my Ecco sandals, ie buy the mens.
Kanga! Now you tell us. After reading several favorable mentions from you, bought Ecco womens off road . They were fine on the maintenance walks for 1 to 1 & 1/2 hrs, but rubbed my bunion raw after 2 hours. I hadn't noticed till then that there is actually a fixed elastic band across the toes and the adjustable velcro strap is only for tightening. Is that why you switched to the men's? They do seem to have more serious walking options in men's.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese.
Hi Deb (and others), I bought the mens first off, because they fitted my foot better. I do have feet like a platypus - narrow heel, very high instep, and very wide forefoot. I think everyone has to find the make and last that fits their particular foot. Sorry about your bunions!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
When fitting a boot it is difficult to determine if you have the right amount of space in the toes because the hard leather prevents you from pushing down to feel the space. The trick my salesman showed me was to jam the toe all the way down and then see if a finger can be inserted between the back of the boot and your heel.

Backpacker Magazine shows a few different ways to lace your boots to ease fitting problems.
http://www.backpacker.com/gear/footwear/hiking-boots/common-hiking-boot-lacing-techniques/
 

BrienC

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francés, July 2015
Via de la Plata/Camino Sanabrés, Oct/Nov 2016
Is there really a difference between men's and women's shoes?


Of course, how else could they charge more for women's?

Also, buy shoes slightly larger than you would wear at home. This provides some room for swelling feet and for your toes on the down hills. Make sure to purchase a brand and model that allows you to do this and can be tied snug so your heel does not slip. Most running supply stores (for runners, by runners) and their sales staff can help you in this important selection. I jokingly say that, “I wear a size 11, but 12 feels so good I buy size 13.”
 

IngridF

Intrepid Peregrina
Camino(s) past & future
2012, 2015 ,2017, 2019
It's the fit...for my first Camino l must have tried out 30 pairs of female shoes. One day l spend so much time in one store l ran out of options and sales people. ..BTW all men. Then this young girl who had been watching for awhile and shaking her head came over and told her colleague to take a break. She then asked me which of the pair l had tried on l liked the best...then she gave me a men's version...and voila. ..they were perfect.
Now l automatically ask for a men's pair.
My feet are even wider in the front post caminos. My pretty high heels hardly ever are worn and as soon as l can take them off, even at fancy functions, my feet thank me.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
In fact, all shoes (except for flip flops) are made from "lasts." A last is a prototypical model of a foot. The last is reproduced up or down to scale for different sizes. However, the last is one company's idea of what the proportions of a "standard foot" are.

During the fabrication process, the parts of a shoe or boot are fitted and assembled on these lasts so the shoe or boot attains the correct shape. Search You Tube for making a shoe. It is remarkable to watch. Not everything can be automated. All shoes are still at least partially assembled by hand. This also explains why shoe manufacturing has increasingly migrated to locations with low labor costs.

One year, while on tour in Florence, Italy, my wife and I had the chance to watch Ferragamo shoes being hand made by factory artisans. Of course, it is all done by hand, using centuries old processes. It was fascinating.

Accordingly, manufacturers in different regions of the world will have differing lasts or models based on their clientele and the local population. Interestingly, foot shape is a thing that can be passed on genetically. As a result, some manufacturers have lasts that typify the shape of feet in a defined geographic region.

In my experience, I have found that shoes made in Asia tend to be smaller in each size. Shoes made in the US tend to be larger (but there are relatively few show manufacturers here anymore). In Europe, the shoes tend to be more "Normal." However, this may be because many people from around the world have their foot shape passed along from their ancestors, who where originally from Europe.

For example, all my shoes were high-end Allen Edmunds shoes, handmade in the US. Back in the 1990s I was induced to buy a pair of Mephisto shoes while in on a business trip to France. My life changed in an instant. I returned home and started getting rid of all my Allen Edmunds dress shoes, replacing them with Mephisto shoes on successive trips to Europe. The reason is that the Mephisto last fits like a glove. I attribute that to my Italian ancestors, who gave me a Euro shaped foot. Lesson, all lasts are different, all feet are different. Finding a one-to one match is a marriage made in Heaven.

The point I am making is that buying shoes is a caveat emptor process. Buyers must do their research, and contact companies to ask how a particular shoe or boot runs to size. For example, Keen footwear typically run either one half size larger or one-half size smaller, depending on the style. YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR RESEARCH. My boots run one-half size small. My Keen hiking sandals run one half size large. But the look almost exactly the same. They are NOT.

This is why buying footwear over the internet is a bad idea, unless you have first had the exact make and model fitted and you KNOW FOR A FACT how a particular make and model will fit. Buying replacement pairs after you have had experience with the exact make and model can be a good idea. but buying, fitting not done, based on a web ad is a bad idea unless you are one of those rare folks with feet that happen to match closely the last used to make the show or boot. I have yet to meet one.

I hope this helps.
 

GreatDane

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF to Burgos Sept/Oct 2014, Burgos to Astorga April 2016, Astorga to SdC 2017
I have wide feet and insanely high arches.
Me too. So insane that when I do find a pair of boots or shoes to fit I replace the shoe laces with longer ones so I have something to tie! When measured on a Brannock Device I measure out to a women's 6.5 DD or E or WW. My Josef Seibel shoes are 7's, my Merrel's and Blondo's are 8's and 8.5's, my Keen sandals are 9's and my camino Keen boots are 10's. So I don't even look at size when I try on shoes/boots - I make a guess and have them bring me an assortment.
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
Our boot stockist told us that even with the same make and model he could not be sure that boots were the same size, so to always to try them on. I have had both mens' and women' boots to get a good fit. Different brands. My favourites are Hi-tec (womens') but the last/manufacturing country has changed and I now buy larger to get the same size as the old ones.
 

C clearly

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
In fact, all shoes (except for flip flops) are made from "lasts." A last is a prototypical model of a foot. The last is reproduced up or down to scale for different sizes. However, the last is one company's idea of what the proportions of a "standard foot" are...
Thanks for that very interesting and informative post! Salomon is "my" last.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
When you do find a last that most closely matches the actual shape, size, and contours of your foot, you finally realize what a properly fitting pair of shoes feels like. It is difficult to describe. Let's just say that you will know it when you experience it. That is when you become a repeat customer.

One word of caution. Among a single manufacturer, different styles are frequently made using different lasts. So, it is still "caveat emptor." Do not assume, for example, that because one style from Solomon fits like a glove, that every other shoe from Salomon, will fit the same way.

No it is not easy. But once you understand how it works, you can become a more informed customer.

I hope this helps.
 

camino07

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances x5, Portuguese VdlP12, Sanabres, Aragones, Norte,Salvador,Primitivo, VdlP 17,Madrid18Norte
I have wide feet and buy men's Keens now. I can still feel the pain I suffered on the one Camino I wore women's Keens,ended up with 10 blisters all around my feet. Took me ages to dress them each day, luckily I was a nurse. I was stubborn and kept going with the help of very strong painkillers. Silly me!
 

camino07

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances x5, Portuguese VdlP12, Sanabres, Aragones, Norte,Salvador,Primitivo, VdlP 17,Madrid18Norte
Were the Keen's your main shoe, @camino07, or did you alternate? Were they the sandle sort?
Yes they were my main shoes/not boots. I take Teva sandals for after walking .They are waterproof so could cross arroyos if on VDLP.
An American buddy who I walked the Aragones with wore her Keen open shoes all the time with socks and had no blisters.
 
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bokormen91

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF, Via Podensis, Baztan, Coastal Portugese, sections on others...
I'm one of those that now wear men's trail runners/hiking shoes. My 1st Camino I wore a woman's pair, they were awesome, I managed to get a 2nd pair - then they stopped making them. As said above - men's shoes are generally wider. I used to wear a lot of narrow shoes, court type, kitten heels etc for work. I don't anymore.
The last decade my feet have mainly been barefoot- in flip flops/thongs, fugly Crocs or trailrunners. Whereas I could wear Saucony/Salomon (my preferred brands/lastss) in women's models 7-8 years ago, I cannot anymore, they are too narrow. My toes now have gaps between them, the area right behind on the footmounds have become wider as it's flatter and less convex.
I have a narrow heel, but even so men's shoes fit me better... I don't do boots anymore, but when it comes to shoes I buy them if they fit, and only then - if they need walking in they do not fit. It really is that simple, but it might take a lot of trying and failing to get to the stage where you instantly recognise what "fits" means for you....
 

Mousewiz

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
None
As one who has horrible feet, I relate to all of these comments. I agree that men's shoes are often the answer, and I use only Keens now. But going longer doesn't necessarily solve the problem of sore toes on the downhill...if you have high arches that then flatten as you walk, your feet will slide forward even if you wear clown size too big shoes and lace them in incredibly creative ways. A good orthotic, even superfeet, help a lot as this keeps the arch and stops the sliding,. Also re blisters, a couple through hikes of the john Muir trail in the California Sierra taught me to religiously change my socks every two hours even if I didn't think I needed to. Just let one pair dry out as you wear the other. This is especially important if you wear Gortex or similarly treated waterproof shoes.
 

HeidiL

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2004-), Portugués, Madrid, 1/2 Plata, 1/8 Levante, 1/8 Lana, Augusta, hospitalera Grado.
Ecco used to make women's shoes that fit me perfectly, as well as men's shoes that fit my husband perfectly. We bought a new pair of Eccos each for every second walk, and though we'd found our shoes. Then they started changing the lasts. First the women's shoes became narrower, thinner soled, and difficult to find in non-pink. I started looking for a new brand. Two years ago, they switched the men's lasts, too. The shoes are narrower, sleeker, more elegant and look less clunky. My husband hasn't given up yet, but there are now FIVE pairs of Ecco shoes in sizes 42/43 at home that are fine for short walks, but not for the Camino. Sigh.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
@Mousewiz comments on having horrid feet. I do not know Mousewiz so cannot speak about her/his age, but love what my podiatrists says: spend 100 $ a year with her to nip things as they start occuring and increase your chances to keep walking the Camino. Never did I think my feet would be an issue... Until one quit on me on the beautiful Norte. Take care of your feet!
 

Lachance

Me llamo Deb
Camino(s) past & future
Part Francese 2016
Ecco used to make women's shoes that fit me perfectly, as well as men's shoes that fit my husband perfectly. We bought a new pair of Eccos each for every second walk, and though we'd found our shoes. Then they started changing the lasts. First the women's shoes became narrower, thinner soled, and difficult to find in non-pink. I started looking for a new brand. Two years ago, they switched the men's lasts, too. The shoes are narrower, sleeker, more elegant and look less clunky. My husband hasn't given up yet, but there are now FIVE pairs of Ecco shoes in sizes 42/43 at home that are fine for short walks, but not for the Camino. Sigh.
Did you try the men's Ecco for yourself? Any luck with finding a new brand?
 

HeidiL

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2004-), Portugués, Madrid, 1/2 Plata, 1/8 Levante, 1/8 Lana, Augusta, hospitalera Grado.
Did you try the men's Ecco for yourself? Any luck with finding a new brand?
Unfortunately, I'm Euro size 38 (but wear 39-40 on the Camino). Ecco doesn't make men's shoes my size.

My new Haglöf shoes show great promise, with great flexibility and oblique lacing, which is supposed to be good for a better fit. Unfortunately, they're (dark) pink, but I'll just make sure I walk through a lot of mud...
 

elinamaria221

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
yes I have a plan for 2016.
How about large (100kg) ladies along with broad feet that usually discover women athletic shoes tend to be as well thin as well as trigger tenderness as well as blisters? Could it be easier to put on footwear created for men due to the extra thickness as well as pounds threshold using the give up associated with performance created for woman feet biomechanics? Not only that have many difference between men's and women's shoes. If you want more than can try womens basketball shoes in Fzillion.
 
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Anemone del Camino

Guest
How about large (100kg) ladies along with broad feet that usually discover women athletic shoes tend to be as well thin as well as trigger tenderness as well as blisters? Could it be easier to put on footwear created for men due to the extra thickness as well as pounds threshold using the give up associated with performance created for woman feet biomechanics? Not only that have many difference between men's and women's shoes. If you want more than can try womens basketball shoes in Fzillion.
I will be out next weekend comparing both. I always thought the difference was in how pink the shoe was, but perhaps the boys also have better built shoes, for the same price, of course... :cool:
 
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Anemone del Camino

Guest
I am quite short and find that many women's packs fit me better than the equivalent men's model. So my large pack is a very un-macho dusky pink but fits like a glove. I can live with the colour :)
Rats! When I look at your avatar I imagine a fit young lad, with wide shoulders like a swimmer and ... Nevermind... My mind is wondering. But really, it's not the corst time I wonder about your choice for an avatar. I know you heve already explained the "pus" in the Bradypus; it may be time to explain the photo...
 
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Joodle

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF May 10th- June 21st 2016
VDLP March-April 2017
CF coming up April-May
Thanks for that very interesting and informative post! Salomon is "my" last.
Have you ever had a Salomon trail runner start making a cracking sound when you walk?? My perfect shoe that I had almost perfectly broken in started snapping. When I bent the toe, it would snap inside the sole. I took them back to REI. Sooo dissapointet !! They felt wonderful. Fate seems to be wanting me to take my Keen hiking boots. They did feel wonderful on my 8 mile mud hike this last weekend!
 

C clearly

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
Have you ever had a Salomon trail runner start making a cracking sound when you walk?? My perfect shoe that I had almost perfectly broken in started snapping. When I bent the toe, it would snap inside the sole. I took them back to REI. Sooo dissapointet !! They felt wonderful. Fate seems to be wanting me to take my Keen hiking boots. They did feel wonderful on my 8 mile mud hike this last weekend!
Maybe it was just a defect in that shoe and you should try another pair.
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
At my last fitting for sneaks, the Canadian Adidas dude was horrified at my eagerness to try on a men's pair ( I do measure an impressive 41.5, after all). Our feet are appropriately different, he told me. As it turns out the shoes he sold me stubbed my big toe so I offloaded them to my mum, but my question remains.

I have wide feet and insanely high arches. I will be fitted for some new (Camino unrelated) trail runners this week, so I was just wondering if the shoe experts among us has any data I can quip out at a salesman.
Whilst I am not professionally qualified to comment from a physiological view point, my recommendation (which I think others - Kanga and co) try on as many different styles/brands/sizes/ male or female and then buy the ones that fit the best. Be sure to wear the usual walking socks you wear on the camino and don't forget about inserting extra padded inner soles.
Foot comfort is paramount when you are walking 800km/500 miles. Buen Camino.
PS - you can always paint the male black shoes a hot pink/green or whatever colour you prefer. Cheers
 

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