It was bound to happen... Gone are the km indicators

[jefferyonthecamino]

the obvious flaw in the design of the new 'milestones' is now being felt.

The new milestones have the distance to Santiago engraved on a metal plaque. And this metal plaque has been removed from a significant number of milestones. And this is only the first season! My guess is that there will only be handful left next year.

This means that, as they do not have a place location like the old ones, we no longer know if we are 2 or 10 kms from our destination. Remember that most towns do not have a sign either as you enter them.

 

[MeganG22]

Well, this is... quite disheartening to say the absolute least. But I guess no less than I have come to expect from some people on the Camino. Why anyone would ever think they have a right to do something like this is beyond me. Let's just cross our fingers that someday this is resolved.

 

[whariwharangi]

the obvious flaw in the design of the new 'milestones' is now being felt.

The new milestones have the distance to Santiago engraved on a metal plaque. And this metal plaque has been removed from a significant number of milestones. And this is only the first season! My guess is that there will only be handful left next year.

This means that, as they do not have a place location like the old ones, we no longer know if we are 2 or 10 kms from our destination. Remember that most towns do not have a sign either as you enter them.

I fail to see how this is a problem. You won't get there till you get there no matter how far it is. You might as well relax to the inevitability and enjoy the walk instead of focusing on how far you have yet to walk on your poor feet.

 

[SYates]

... This means that, as they do not have a place location like the old ones, we no longer know if we are 2 or 10 kms from our destination. Remember that most towns do not have a sign either as you enter them.

That markers have never been incredibly accurate since I met them first in 1999, look at your guidebooks/GPS/maps and keep calm and walk on! Buen Camino, SY

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

the obvious flaw in the design of the new 'milestones' is now being felt.

The new milestones have the distance to Santiago engraved on a metal plaque. And this metal plaque has been removed from a significant number of milestones. And this is only the first season! My guess is that there will only be handful left next year.

This means that, as they do not have a place location like the old ones, we no longer know if we are 2 or 10 kms from our destination. Remember that most towns do not have a sign either as you enter them.

That will be not really a problem .
You will begin your daily walk and you know witch villages you will pas.
It's just one foot after the other.
Wish you well, Peter.

 

[james walter purdum iv]

Crus de ferro is the only marker I need

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

there are a million reasons a pilgrim may want to know how far it is to the next toilet (and no, the bushes may not be the answer), or to the next albergue (or hotel where I have booked a room) when you feel you can't walk another metre, or what hamlet you are in so as to take the detour to Vilar de Donas, or how far away is the next pharmacy because I need one, or just 'where on Earth am I?'

On the other hand, Perhaps with smartphones and google maps we won't need these indicators at all.

 

[Jakke]

there are a million reasons a pilgrim may want to know how far it is to the next toilet (and no, the bushes may not be the answer), or to the next albergue (or hotel where I have booked a room) when you feel you can't walk another metre, or what hamlet you are in so as to take the detour to Vilar de Donas, or how far away is the next pharmacy because I need one, or just 'where on Earth am I?'

On the other hand, Perhaps with smartphones and google maps we won't need these indicators at all.

Exactly. And besides, there are kilometers and then there are KILOMETERS.... The number of kilometers left is just one aspect.

 

[cher99840]

I Ike the km markers even though they are not absolutely accurate. There is a comfort in seeing the number even though the distance can be determined from a map. The markers are kinda like having a buddy say "good job" or "you can do it". The fact that the new markers have been vandalized is the opposite of comfort. I think I will find it a distressing reminder of human selfishness.

 

[trecile]

What are these markers that you are talking about? I'm on the Camino three weeks and haven't seen any. But as other's have said, a marker isn't going to make the next town come sooner!

 

[David]

Do we really need all this road furniture? Do we really need anything more than arrows and shells to walk by, with the odd memorial to remind us of our mortality?
One of the biggest problems when walking can be to be where one is rather than spending all ones day thinking about where one will be .. .... we delude our minds into inhabiting the mythical future we create in our own heads - and then we miss the present that is all around us (present in both senses) .... so, personally, I don't care about the markers .. well, apart from the theft aspect of it which is pretty low.
I wonder if James spoke at the same awareness level as Osho - I hope so.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Do we really need all this road furniture? Do we really need anything more than arrows and shells to walk by, with the odd memorial to remind us of our mortality?
One of the biggest problems when walking can be to be where one is rather than spending all ones day thinking about where one will be .. .... we delude our minds into inhabiting the mythical future we create in our own heads - and then we miss the present that is all around us (present in both senses) .... so, personally, I don't care about the markers .. well, apart from the theft aspect of it which is pretty low.
I wonder if James spoke at the same awareness level as Osho - I hope so.

View attachment 29038

Hi David, love Osho.
Wish you well, Peter.

 

[Jakke]

Of course the practice of erecting those markers goes way back. When young hikers (I have served as a wilderness guide in Lapland) ask how many kilometers we still have to go, we used to give a standard answer: "5 kilometers" -- no matter what the "real" number was. David is right. A certain number will result in a certain expectation. If I am told, that I still have 19 kilometers to go, but the real distance is 22 difficult kilometers, I'll be at the end of my tethers. If, however, I figure it is 25 km, I'll have energy left. We "space" ourselves that way. I'd rather just know the direction and enjoy the environment and the people. Numbers are problematic because my brains are

 

[movinmaggie]

there are a million reasons a pilgrim may want to know how far it is to the next toilet (and no, the bushes may not be the answer), or to the next albergue (or hotel where I have booked a room) when you feel you can't walk another metre, or what hamlet you are in so as to take the detour to Vilar de Donas, or how far away is the next pharmacy because I need one, or just 'where on Earth am I?'

On the other hand, Perhaps with smartphones and google maps we won't need these indicators at all.

I found John Brierley's Guide very helpful, both for distance and a snapshot of the local history.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

What are these markers that you are talking about? I'm on the Camino three weeks and haven't seen any. But as other's have said, a marker isn't going to make the next town come sooner!

Once you enter Galicia you will start seeing them. Many of us loved (and miss) the old ones with their countdown to Santiago. These were taken down at the beginning of the year and replaced with the ones you will soon see.

Buen Camino

 

[domigee]

What are these markers that you are talking about? I'm on the Camino three weeks and haven't seen any. But as other's have said, a marker isn't going to make the next town come sooner!

They are the new ones in Galicia.
The km were never accurate on the old ones because the camino had changed I think and I didn't think there really was a need for new ones.....
But....all this said, I think it is an absolute shame that people go and deface them!!!!

 

[vlebe]

I personally actually kind of despise the amount of information that is already on the paths...

I foresee the day that the entire path will be lit by LED balustrades and handrails all over Spain; Plasma outdoors will display advertising of "albergues" every now and then, monorails will transport your luggage (no longer backpacks) to your luxury pre-booked "Pilgrim-Hotel", pilgrim menus will be sold by Chain Diner Restaurants all over the place,

I fail to see how this is a problem. You won't get there till you get there no matter how far it is. You might as well relax to the inevitability and enjoy the walk instead of focusing on how far you have yet to walk on your poor feet.

Perfect saying!

Keep walking... You'll get there when you get there... If you need to go to the toilet go when there is one to be used. If there is not one and you need to go, just use the bushes ( AND PLEASE BURY YOUR THING AND TAKE YOUR USED T.P. WITH YOU!!! ) And, if you get Lost (I dont think this is actually even possible nowadays... at least on the CF), just walk west and follow the stars... You'll be fine...

Ultreia!

 

[movinmaggie]

We do all have our own thoughts on this subject to be sure, but I do appreciate the humour in vlebe's post. When I was in the hotel business and lived in Flagstaff, Arizona, we used to joke that soon there would be a 'lift' (as in ski lift) across the Grand Canyon.

 

[november_moon]

I think the countdown to Santiago is cool. It's kind of fun to find the first one that's under 100, then under 50, etc. Sure, they aren't needed, but I think they are nice. Regardless of what anybody thinks of them, the point is that people are defacing them by stealing the metal distance plates, which is terrible.

 

[vlebe]

I think the countdown to Santiago is cool. It's kind of fun to find the first one that's under 100, then under 50, etc. Sure, they aren't needed, but I think they are nice. Regardless of what anybody thinks of them, the point is that people are defacing them by stealing the metal distance plates, which is terrible.

Absolutely right!!! I despise even more this sort of people (Yes, I'm 100% judging...There is no other way to deal with this).Vandals and thieves its what they are... They are probably the ones who use the bushes, leave their things unburied and dirt Toilet Paper flying on the paths... probably the ones who have no respect and consideration for other people and for the Camino itself...Probably the ones who grab taxis to arrive first in a Donativo Albergue just so they can spend the money they would lodging with more booze and party... Many of them justifying their attitudes to themselves as this being "their own Camino..."

We human beings are awesome.. But we are also one demeaning arrogant disrespectful kind...

 

[SYates]

Whilst I agree with you regarding graffiti on way markers and pollution - I really think you are OTT in your assumptions otherwise. There are a lot of thoughtless people around, on and off the Camino, but you paint an image of humanity that I don't recognise. Buen Camino, SY

 

[Kiwi-family]

there are a million reasons a pilgrim may want to know how far it is to the next toilet (and no, the bushes may not be the answer), or to the next albergue (or hotel where I have booked a room) when you feel you can't walk another metre, or what hamlet you are in so as to take the detour to Vilar de Donas, or how far away is the next pharmacy because I need one, or just 'where on Earth am I?'

On the other hand, Perhaps with smartphones and google maps we won't need these indicators at all.

Once you become aware of what you speed you typically walk, you can guesstimate quite accurately where you are if you have a map.

 

[james walter purdum iv]

there are a million reasons a pilgrim may want to know how far it is to the next toilet (and no, the bushes may not be the answer), or to the next albergue (or hotel where I have booked a room) when you feel you can't walk another metre, or what hamlet you are in so as to take the detour to Vilar de Donas, or how far away is the next pharmacy because I need one, or just 'where on Earth am I?'

On the other hand, Perhaps with smartphones and google maps we won't need these indicators at all.

look to the sky..no need for anything

 

[VNwalking]

Depending on what you focus on, good or bad, becomes the lens to see everyone and everything.

The need for "road furniture" aside (thank you @David for this term)...
Some people are do idiotic things sometimes.
Some more than others.
It's the idiotic things I immensely dislike, but I try very hard (not always successfully) not to mix the actions up with the people. Otherwise I'd hate the world.

Defacement is an act of either pure selfishness or vandalism that I can't wrap my head around, no matter how I try. A pity. But sadly more and more a result of our increasingly self-centered and entitled culture--or desperate anger:
"I walked and deserve it as a souvenir so to heck with the thousands of others who deserve it enjoy it too."
Or, "I hate you all and so I'm going to take your markers..."

It's not pretty in either case. So I for one hope to develop more compassion...because what drives this kind of action is inevitably suffering.

 

[james walter purdum iv]

i tatooed a yellow arrow on my leg...not a vandal..lol

 

[domigee]

i tatooed a yellow arrow on my leg...not a vandal..lol

Lol do you find there are lots of pilgrims following you?

 

[dougfitz]

Once you enter Galicia you will start seeing them. Many of us loved (and miss) the old ones with their countdown to Santiago. These were taken down at the beginning of the year and replaced with the ones you will soon see.

Buen Camino

When I walked earlier this year, there was still an old marker shortly after the Galician border marker and and a new marker just before O Cebriero. If you pay attention to the distances on each marker, you will appreciate there was at least one good reason to replace the existing markers.

 

[Dennis D]

I like to see markers because it assures me that I am still on the correct path. The distance indicators are a bonus and can be very helpful for many of the reasons previously stated.

Approximately half of the Pilgrims are not from Spain. So one might assume that at half of the damage is caused by guests of Spain. That is so disrespectful and that is what bothers me the most about the vandalism. It serves no purpose.

Sharpie Pens should be outlawed too!

Buen Camino

 

[james walter purdum iv]

when you pass the halfway gates....marker can't be lifted lol

 

[james walter purdum iv]

Lol do you find there are lots of pilgrims following you?

yes!

 

[james walter purdum iv]

yes!

 

[AcrossTheWater3008]

Absolutely right!!! I despise even more this sort of people (Yes, I'm 100% judging...There is no other way to deal with this).Vandals and thieves its what they are... They are probably the ones who use the bushes, leave their things unburied and dirt Toilet Paper flying on the paths... probably the ones who have no respect and consideration for other people and for the Camino itself...Probably the ones who grab taxis to arrive first in a Donativo Albergue just so they can spend the money they would lodging with more booze and party... Many of them justifying their attitudes to themselves as this being "their own Camino..."

We human beings are awesome.. But we are also one demeaning arrogant disrespectful kind...

I remember a time (fairly recently) when anything made of metal (bins, bikes, sewage covers etc ...) disappearing from the streets of London and UK (and parts of the world) in response to the global demands of metals from the worlds' industrialised countries.... maybe these markers burglars are not our Camino siblings?

 

[MTtoCamino]

I personally actually kind of despise the amount of information that is already on the paths...

I foresee the day that the entire path will be lit by LED balustrades and handrails all over Spain; Plasma outdoors will display advertising of "albergues" every now and then, monorails will transport your luggage (no longer backpacks) to your luxury pre-booked "Pilgrim-Hotel", pilgrim menus will be sold by Chain Diner Restaurants all over the place,



Perfect saying!

Keep walking... You'll get there when you get there... If you need to go to the toilet go when there is one to be used. If there is not one and you need to go, just use the bushes ( AND PLEASE BURY YOUR THING AND TAKE YOUR USED T.P. WITH YOU!!! ) And, if you get Lost (I dont think this is actually even possible nowadays... at least on the CF), just walk west and follow the stars... You'll be fine...

Ultreia!

Please keep your business ideas to yourself

 

[vlebe]

Please keep your business ideas to yourself

It'lll be something like Pilgrim Menu No 1, Pilgrim Menu No 2, Mc Pilgrim, Pilgrim Mc Melt, QUarter POunder with Pilgrim, Pilgrim King, etc "

 

[SYates]

And not to forget Barbecued Pilgrims Wings ;-) Buen Camino, SY

 

[kelleymac]

I really dislike the mile stones in Galicia. There are way too many of them -- they just kept me focused on how far I'd walked instead of where I was.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Once you enter Galicia you will start seeing them. Many of us loved (and miss) the old ones with their countdown to Santiago. These were taken down at the beginning of the year and replaced with the ones you will soon see.

Buen Camino

If you want a reminder of what some of the old ones looked like here's the last 150kms or so

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

I really dislike the mile stones in Galicia. There are way too many of them -- they just kept me focused on how far I'd walked instead of where I was.

Yes, that certainly seemed to be what many pilgrims (myself included) felt about the mile markers.

Earlier on we came across this gem - I know I know technically it's also graffiti but...

WE DON'T WANT THIS OK?
STOP TELLING US!
TAKE IT OFF PLEASE!

 

[Mousewiz]

the obvious flaw in the design of the new 'milestones' is now being felt.

The new milestones have the distance to Santiago engraved on a metal plaque. And this metal plaque has been removed from a significant number of milestones. And this is only the first season! My guess is that there will only be handful left next year.

This means that, as they do not have a place location like the old ones, we no longer know if we are 2 or 10 kms from our destination. Remember that most towns do not have a sign either as you enter them.

I am finding many of the responses to this thread disheartening. Yes, the original post does describe a desire for information on the distance. While it's true that "you will get there when you get there" as so many posts say, it's also true that for some, the distance remaining is comforting to know. We were walking with friends who have never done a distance walk before and while we knew where we were, they were still excited to see the distances decline.

But what is so much more disturbing is how few people. focused on the real issue of vandalism. And filth. We were terribly disappointed with the state of the trail: stolen plaques, graffiti everywhere even on people's walls and homes, trash everywhere including more toilet paper than I thought possible. Not much pilgrim spirit shown, just selfish behavior. Frankly it ruined our Camino to see this disregard for the environment and property. How hard is it to carry your trash a short distance to dispose of it properly, and to keep your names, messages to friends, etc off of the markers and walls!

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Try not to be disheartened.

Everyone has their own very different view, opinion and needs about the mile/distance markers. It reflects their Way of travelling the Camino. Neither is right or wrong. Just different. Each opinion is valid and not all posts are serious responses all the time.

I found the 'countdown' when it was every kilometre or less sometimes annoying, sometimes encouraging, occasionally disheartening and only informative if they identified a location. It all depended on my mood and needs on the day.

Actually quite a few of the responses above focus on the vandalism issue. A search of the Forum will also show how often this crops up in discussions.

This and the issue of filth and in particular toilet tissue have had their own intensely debated threads:
Toilet tissue on or by the trail
Cairns/stacking stones
Keep the trail clean
and especially the Camino Ditch Pigs Cleanup: 2015, the unsung heroes of the Camino who volunteer to clean up other people's trash.

I was so inspired by the Ditch Pigs that I carried a packet of nappy disposal bags and filled one a day with trash left by the roadside. It was only a small act but it's interesting to see how others will notice and I was often asked for a spare bag so that a pilgrim could carry their rubbish out.

I agree with you and would consider vandalism and littering selfish behaviour. However also being a graffiti removal volunteer here at home for over 40 years it is also a very complex behaviour to change and requires a multi-disciplined approach. Part of this needs to be educational eg only babies scribble on walls campaign had an impact here by making it 'uncool' to tag public property. The other deterrent is law enforcement but that's a subject in itself.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Yes, that certainly seemed to be what many pilgrims (myself included) felt about the mile markers.

Earlier on we came across this gem - I know I know technically it's also graffiti but...
View attachment 29157
WE DON'T WANT THIS OK?
STOP TELLING US!
TAKE IT OFF PLEASE!

And indeed a lot HAVE been removed. At that stage who cares if it's 571 or 572.

On the other hand the idiot who scrawled "WHO CARES" on the 100km stone ought to have it tatoo'd on his forehead!

 

[VNwalking]

I guess I'm not in the majority, but I actually like the markers along the way.
And while I can certainly understand not liking them, what I don't get is angrily defacing them or ripping them off as a result. It seems there are some overly-entitled spoiled brats out there...yet another proof that the Camino is not some mythical Disneyland of wholesomeness, but a microcosm of the rest of the world.
Oh, well...c'est la vie. One more place to practice patience.
(But if I ever caught anyone at it? They'd probably get quite an ear-full...)

 

[redgoonerinoz]

Absolutely right!!! I despise even more this sort of people (Yes, I'm 100% judging...There is no other way to deal with this).Vandals and thieves its what they are... They are probably the ones who use the bushes, leave their things unburied and dirt Toilet Paper flying on the paths... probably the ones who have no respect and consideration for other people and for the Camino itself...Probably the ones who grab taxis to arrive first in a Donativo Albergue just so they can spend the money they would lodging with more booze and party... Many of them justifying their attitudes to themselves as this being "their own Camino..."

We human beings are awesome.. But we are also one demeaning arrogant disrespectful kind...

Please stop and calm down,these are just markers. Dont sweat the small things!

 

[Colin Botterman]

the obvious flaw in the design of the new 'milestones' is now being felt.

The new milestones have the distance to Santiago engraved on a metal plaque. And this metal plaque has been removed from a significant number of milestones. And this is only the first season! My guess is that there will only be handful left next year.

This means that, as they do not have a place location like the old ones, we no longer know if we are 2 or 10 kms from our destination. Remember that most towns do not have a sign either as you enter them.

This has been happening all Summer, as you say there are very few left now.
We have a Pension in Brea and look after our local marker, keeping it clean and graffiti free. The plaque was stolen last week, so I have replaced it with a simple card replacement and also added a Place name sign to show pilgrims where they are.
I hope that the thieves come to realize what a shameful thing they have done and that their personal Camino has been marked with greed and disrespect to the Camino itself.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

I am finding many of the responses to this thread disheartening.

Me too. Somewhat surprised by many of them too. In any case, interesting opinions, even if I do not share all of them.

 

[lbpierce]

I guess I have a fairly fatalistic view of the human race. There will always be some people who will do things that show a lack of respect for, if not a hateful attack against, mother nature, including their fellow humans. Even though I may feel any such actions are unfortunate, I rarely feel angry when I hear of such things. But how I or others feel about something is quite different than what actions any of us might take to stop their behavior. Is there something that can be done to prevent or diminish the defacement of Camino markers? I don't know. If not, my attitude is to let it go. If there is, then the activists among us (after all, some of us are wired to take actions on behalf of the common good, and others of us are not), should do what they can. My two pesos.

 

[Registration]

the obvious flaw in the design of the new 'milestones' is now being felt.

The new milestones have the distance to Santiago engraved on a metal plaque. And this metal plaque has been removed from a significant number of milestones. And this is only the first season! My guess is that there will only be handful left next year.

This means that, as they do not have a place location like the old ones, we no longer know if we are 2 or 10 kms from our destination. Remember that most towns do not have a sign either as you enter them.

Although knowing how far to go is interesting information I just liked to see them. Specifically the signs on the Camino de Madrid with the cows on them were always a pleasure to look at. I've even got a great photo to remind me.

 

[Shalaw]

While I agree that the graffiti isn't a good thing, I certainly wouldn't let it ruin my camino. I never really took stock in those km signs anyway, as I found that they lied a lot and that they were generally incorrect (and not in the good way - the distance was always further than on the signs!) I do like how the indicators are in the sidewalks of the major cities which is super helpful, when trying to find your way out.

 

[MargLav]

Walking from Ventosa to Ciruena today I did notice that the km markers had mostly been taken which is awful but I was not enjoying the signs every km. I am a bit of a Garmin addict so I knew how far I'd gone so I do understand that people like to know where they are. Maybe I will lose my addiction as my Camino continues. Buen Camino!!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The distance is chiseled into the 100km marker, so it is not going anywhere! About one third of the distance plaques seem to be gone.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

The distance is chiseled into the 100km marker, so it is not going anywhere! About one third of the distance plaques seem to be gone.

I don't believe there is a 100km market any longer. It was replaced by a 99,93km new marker with conveniently removable plaque... If ever there was a marker to lie about the distance and round off to the nearest km, that would have been the one IMO

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Here it is/was... there were lots of groups and noise and talk of taking selfies with the 100km marker when we came upon it last May... and all the people around us missed it in their distraction so we had a quiet moment on our own before calling them back.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

There is. I will eventually post a photo. My son shot it.

 

[MTtoCamino]

We need to relax, Short of puting a guard at every marker it won't change until folks find some other way of having their trophy to proclaim they did something.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

More than half are gone as I near Santiago.

The new 100km marker that cannot be pried off. It can be tagged...

 

[Deleted member 43985]

More than half are gone as I near Santiago.

The new 100km marker that cannot be pried off. It can be tagged...

Thanks for sharing.

By the direction of the arrow I guess this marker was on the opposite side of the road so while I was busy wondering why they would post one at 99.93km, the 100.00km was 7 meters back on the opposite side... It still begs to understand why they put two markers up within 7 meters of each other and why this one is a permanent engraving as opposed to the rest which are the new style. One question answered, two new questions raised...

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Spain.

 

[Shalaw]

Part of the beauty of the Camino for me was being off the grid and to not worry about the time, distance and having to be somewhere at a certain time....to just 'be' and live in the moment and to truly relax, so the lack of km signs would not phase me.

 

[Debora]

there are a million reasons a pilgrim may want to know how far it is to the next toilet (and no, the bushes may not be the answer), or to the next albergue (or hotel where I have booked a room) when you feel you can't walk another metre, or what hamlet you are in so as to take the detour to Vilar de Donas, or how far away is the next pharmacy because I need one, or just 'where on Earth am I?'

On the other hand, Perhaps with smartphones and google maps we won't need these indicators at all.

I agree...I always liked at least having an idea of how much further I had to go. It helps!

 

[DurhamParish]

Please stop and calm down,these are just markers. Dont sweat the small things!

Amen.