It's Different This Year

[MichaelB10398]

Annie is a long time friend on this board and if she is sharing her feelings about what was her experience, I believe that what she was noticing was real. The Camino is in a growth phase with many different types of people walking in ever greater numbers. There are bound to be less than positive experiences for many walkers and pilgrims. There was a time in the recent past where it was still a Way that few walked; at least for now and the foreseeable future this will be a Way of multitudes. We need to adjust to this new phase with humility and patience. We also need to avoid those times that are not comfortable. Others have shared wise advise: wait a few days, move ahead by taking a bus, or even switching to another trail.

I have a predisposition to wish for those that are walking for sincere spiritual reasons. I tend to dislike bikes, tourists, and others that either do not have a spiritual reason for being on Camino or who do not meet my perceived idea of what a "true" pilgrim is. This line of feelings or thinking is a weakness that I recognize in myself and I strive to overcome them.

I seek to be a source of peace in the world and particularly on Camino. I strive to connect more closely with God and I know that as I serve others I am serving him. The Camino is a time to focus on losing myself, to assume a role of servant. I have learned so much from so many others on Camino. This board is full of individuals that would gladly share all they have with another and you all teach me a better way of being. Yes, there may be some less than ideal pilgrims, but then again they also have to put up with me too, which is not so easy.

 

[David]

It cannot be the same experience as twenty years ago - there is no such thing as an experience being the same twenty years apart.

Crowds alter responses. Walk through a small village in the early morning in England and all who pass smile and say hello - try that in central London in the morning rush hour.

Twenty years ago the Camino numbers were low but on the increase and it had a certain something, a sense of camaraderie, an esprit de corp, based upon the low numbers and type of people doing it. Twenty years later and in high season it is really crowded and this crowding, and the stress that can accompany it means that there will be different responses - we are, after all, responsive creatures, we respond to circumstances and situations.
Also, not only has the cost of air travel dropped significantly, not only have people become disillusioned by this modern and pointless way of living and working which is now the norm, but the pilgrimage is much more widely known now - leading to a more eclectic gathering of pilgrims each year.
How else could it be? This does not make it a 'worse' pilgrimage, if anything it has more of a medieval sense to it, just by the numbers alone, and with that increase the rude, the selfish, the thieves, are all more noticeable - but - there are so many Wonderful people out there, so many.

If you haven't yet pilgrimaged (is there such a verb?) to Santiago do not let this thread put you off (including what I have written before) - all human life is there, and your personal, inner, journey remains the same. You will meet some wonderful people - you will meet a few who are a mirror of that - but, they are on pilgrimage too, never forget that.

So, no, it is not and cannot be the same as it was twenty years ago but it is still quite marvellous.

Buen Camino

 

[Deleted member 12253]

As a 6 time camino Francis peregrine none are the same, the first was the hardest walking wise, but the next easiest as my fitness increased, in April, may this year the weather was awful, lucky got sun in Pyrenees, the mood was dreadful and people just took buses and some went home, I kept walking but I found people rude, anti social, ie excessive drinking, rude to locals, I was only pilgrim in church for blessings in Los across ,vianna, and a few other places, I promised I would not walk Francis again but just booked to walk logrono to Leon in September, it calls me back, Buen camino

 

[stevenjarvis]

mad-galwayman , I'm sorry to learn of your experience in May, but delighted that you're going back ! I've found this whole thread interesting , and discovered the following article on the CSJ website - THANK YOU CSJ ! I hope others will find it interesting.

http://www.csj.org.uk/gifts.htm
.

Whatever the irritations , indignities or unpleasant experiences along the way, I yearn for the delight of the positive moments I enjoyed. I know that the more positive my behaviour, the less judgmental my view of others, the better my experience.

Now back in England, somewhat isolated, I yearn for a "Buen Camino" from a fellow pilgrim, a kind word from a shopkeeper, a smile from a hospitalera- even the slightly disdainful glance of the hard working staff in the Tourist Offices in Rue Vilar !

 

[alexwalker]

Steven, thank you so much for that link to a fantastic article!

"The spirit of the Camino continues its transforming magic, turning tourists into pilgrims, as it has done these many centuries."

Applies to me too. When arriving in Santiago first time, I had truly become a pilgrim, crying in front of the cathedral, in thankfulness.

...it calls me back...

Planning is in progress...

 

[Annie Little]

Yes this thread is soo interesting... a thread about humans... humans emotions/ judgements.... I am going to Camino to avoid such judgements....... it is enough to put me off.... but I shall go.... I will avoid those who chose to judge me for whatever choices I make .. realllly .... who is anyone to judge another !!!!!

If one does truly believe in God of any sort.. and various forms... then why do they feel they have a right to judge........ the reason I no longer become involved in religion

Annie

 

[Pieces]

yes, let's judge those who judge instead...

 

[Annie Little]

Of course your reply based on your judgement... interesting

 

[Pieces]

yes I judge, as do you, and I am judged...

difference is, apparently, that I don't give a flying f*** how strangers judge me as that is all on them...

 

[David]

Of course your reply based on your judgement... interesting

I think that was her point - Pieces was doing irony (pretty good too, that subtlety in a second language) :wink:

 

[Pieces]

thanks David, glad you think that. Am doing the toefl test next week and I am actually really nervous :|

 

[stevenjarvis]

...so, I'm glad we've all agreed .... going on Camino is A Good Idea, and , while life on the Camino may not be perfect, the alternative is unthinkable :shock:

 

[Rebekah Scott]

...and to wind it back around to what Annie said at the start: Of course it´s different this year.

Because this year, ANNIE is different!

 

[KinkyOne]

Of course your reply based on your judgement... interesting

I think that was her point - Pieces was doing irony (pretty good too, that subtlety in a second language) :wink:

Pieces is always like this :twisted:
Love it!

Ultreia!

 

[Annie Little]

Yes it was maybe funny .

 

[nidarosa]

I have just come back from a different and shorter walk, and didn't have any expectations. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't have many ideas of what I wanted from it or how it would turn out, I just wanted to try it. It turned out to be a great walk in some ways and really bad in others. But that's okay. It is what it is. I take the good with me and leave the bad. If you approach something without expectations, just the urge to do it, the chance of being disappointed will be drastically reduced. Don't expect everyone to be a potential new friend because not everyone will be, even if you have a lot in common - this thread has showed us just that - but be grateful when you meet the right ones. I hope all your caminos will turn out to be the answer to your needs, if not your expectations.

Buen Camino,
Linda

Oh, and Pieces - I like what you said about understanding being overrated. I try to learn by listening instead of feeling that I have to understand everything, and it makes it easier. Thanks.

 

[Lydia Gillen]

In a hotel in Santiago earlier this month I observed about 12 pilgrims sitting around and each intent on their own little screen. Nobody was talking to anybody present.

I think that 5 or 7 years ago they would all have been talking to each other.

Maybe all the high tech stuff means that pilgrims are so intent on keeping contact with whoever that they fail to make contact with the others in the room with them.

Does this have an effect on how pilgrims behave towards one another?

 

[JabbaPapa]

I think that 5 or 7 years ago they would all have been talking to each other.

I don't think so -- clearly such devices are a change, but not even 20 years ago would pilgrims necessarily say more to each other than "Hola, y buen camino" simply because they stumbled into the same place together.

Staring at a screen, reading a book, staring at the view -- we each have our ways to find our own little private space in the crowd, and not everyone is on the Camino for the social aspects in the first place -- not to mention private meditation about the Camino itself and one's own personal Camino.

Best not intrude ...

 

[billbennettoz]

In a hotel in Santiago earlier this month I observed about 12 pilgrims sitting around and each intent on their own little screen. Nobody was talking to anybody present.

Hi Lydia, I think this is a social phenomenon that's not specific to the Camino. Sadly. And why is that when you're talking to someone and their mobile phone goes, they immediately break off the conversation with you to answer the call? Is the call more important? I think what Jabbapapa says in the previous or following post is right - there have always been ways for people to have their attention diverted - but phones and tablets are certainly gobbling up a lot of "eyeballs!"

Bill

 

[billbennettoz]

yes I judge, as do you, and I am judged...

difference is, apparently, that I don't give a flying f*** how strangers judge me as that is all on them...

That's why we love you Pieces...

Bill

 

[stevenjarvis]

I think the ubiquitous technology we all carry does create barriers to face to face communication, and exacerbates the shortening of attention spans for many people.
I don't expect this to change anytime soon, and therefore try ! not to become irritated, angry or offended by people who prioritise their gadgets before me.
For anyone under 30, "normal" behavior includes constant connectedness; they don't (seem) to take offense at other people taking calls, reading and writing text messages while (partially) engaged with them.
Nonetheless, it is the face to face, undistracted, eye contact exchanges which nourish me. They will still exist on the Camino, as elsewhere, but we may need to work harder to find them; make space for them; grasp and nurture them.

 

[Annie Little]

Well said Steven
I agree- technology has its place BUTTTT cannot replace face to face Real contact

Annie

 

[BuzzBuzz]

I believe in leading by example, and just as Pieces said that negativity can be contagious, so can positivity. We know as forum members what the spirit of the camino should be and we have to stick to that.

So true So true! Almost wish I didn't read this thread but now I'm glad I read some of it.

I'm doing my first Camino and only part of it, at that. I'm so freaking excited! I'm excited to do something, I've never done before, go to places I've never seen, meet people I've never met. Most importantly, meet and revisit aspects of myself. Togetherness and Solitude, I want that and I can have it.

I can see bits and pieces of me in all people, the positive and the negative. I've been in shouting matches before, I've squished my partner's food in my own fridge. I've been unkind. Equally, I've been generous with time and ear. I smile a lot. I'm polite.

I'm looking forward to this adventure. "Be the change you want to see in the world". All I can do is try.

So hopefully, I'll meet some of you out there. We leave from SJPP on July 31. YAHOOO!

 

[stevenjarvis]

BuzzBuzz wrote

" .... I've been generous with time and ear. I smile a lot. I'm polite. "

good on you ! If all of us managed to emulate you even some of the time, wouldn't life be great ?

I'm excited for you looking forward to your Camino, I hope you have a fantastic adventure. Having returned from the Camino Portugese in June, I am trying to beat the Post Camino Blues... I realised I even missed the Poligono Industrial section between Tui and O Porrino !

One foot in front of the other....repeat...

 

[waveprof]

Every experience changes year to year, anyone who wants to re-experience something from their (or any) past is doomed to be disappointed.

There are just as many positive experiences to be had this year. We had plenty of them. But they may well be different than the positive experiences of last year, or twenty years ago.

I will say this. If you are firmly committed to never making reservations at a private albuergue 2-3 days in advance, then the Camino Frances is not the place for you. Time to go try the Norte.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Respectfully, I disagree. I have never made a reservation at an albergue in Spain, and I have always found a bed. If you rise late, walk late, and do not reserve, you could have a problem!

 

[waveprof]

Respectfully, I disagree. I have never made a reservation at an albergue in Spain, and I have always found a bed. If you rise late, walk late, and do not reserve, you could have a problem!

Fair enough. But I respectfully would argue that if you rise super early and rush to your next location, you'll miss the real camino. Just my .02. By no means the gospel.

 

[Pieces]

who is talking about rushing ?

 

[waveprof]

who is talking about rushing ?

To me, when in Spain, I want to follow the Spanish schedule as best I can. Now, one obviously can't wait till 9 PM to eat dinner while walking 25 km a day, leaving at 7 AM isn't going to help matters. But that is probably unique to me.

But as crowded as things have gotten of late, if you aren't leaving early in the morning, walking fast, and prepared to stop early, then you are going to have trouble getting a bed in certain, more remote, stretches of the camino.

 

[David]

who is talking about rushing ?

To me, when in Spain, I want to follow the Spanish schedule as best I can. Now, one obviously can't wait till 9 PM to eat dinner while walking 25 km a day, leaving at 7 AM isn't going to help matters. But that is probably unique to me.

But as crowded as things have gotten of late, if you aren't leaving early in the morning, walking fast, and prepared to stop early, then you are going to have trouble getting a bed in certain, more remote, stretches of the camino.

forget the beds, forget waiting to eat out after 9am, forget getting up and out by a certain time

just forget all those things - those things are of this world, they really weigh you down if you take them with you to that other world - your pilgrimage .... put them down, like a heavy suitcase, and walk away, take each day, each moment, as it comes...

... best thing you can do is to go into a hardware shop, borrow a hammer and smash your watch into little pieces, then give the hammer back and start walking :wink:

... unless you are fearful or a compulsive or a masochist of course - and if you are, well, you will enjoy your Camino that way - so all is well

 

[waveprof]

... best thing you can do is to go into a hardware shop, borrow a hammer and smash your watch into little pieces, then give the hammer back and start walking :wink:

Or simply make a reservation 1-2 days in advance in the most remote areas. Achieves the same result.

 

[David]

nonononnonoooo- if you do make those reservations then you have to be there don't you - so no matter what amazing things might happen, or beautiful church you might see, or detour you hear of, or pilgrim who needs help - you must ignore it all and carry on, huffing and puffing to get there in time ...

for why? fear, nothing but fear ... :|

 

[waveprof]

nonononnonoooo- if you do make those reservations then you have to be there don't you - so no matter what amazing things might happen, or beautiful church you might see, or detour you hear of, or pilgrim who needs help - you must ignore it all and carry on, huffing and puffing to get there in time ...

Never had to hurry once, and we took most detours. If you call ahead, in Spanish, they'll keep a room at least as late as 6 PM. Since, most days, most pilgrims stop in the early afternoon, that gives you PLENTY of buffer time to look at a church, help out a friend, take a detour, or whatever may come. Meanwhile, most other people weren't doing those things because they knew that if they did they wouldn't get a bed. At times, in places, it is that bad out there nowadays.

I plan to make no reservations the next time I camino (if I Camino again)......because I plan to walk the Norte. But that is a different discussion.

 

[alexwalker]

... best thing you can do is to go into a hardware shop, borrow a hammer and smash your watch into little pieces, then give the hammer back and start walking :wink:

My brother in spirit...

That being said: You could choose a less trafficed time of year, sleep outside now and then, walk shorter or longer days, stay in between the classic stops, etc. etc.

Do not plan too much: It takes away your attention to The Way.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Each evening, last year, we booked the next night's accomodation. That meant we could leave when ready, walk slowly if we wished, look at the view or places of interest etc. No stress, no wondering about a bed and having to walk too far in a day. A wonderful Camino on the Primitivo then Francés from Palas de Rei. It added to our Camino and we did the same this year and will do it again that way next year (different route). If we have to book more than a night ahead we will do so to ensure that we can complete our Camino.

Very different from 2009-2011 when there were less people on the northern routes too.

One of the reasons for not walking the Francés is the 5.30 starters and apparent bed-rush. Not my style, but fine for those who want to do it that way.

 

[newfydog]

who is talking about rushing ?

To me, when in Spain, I want to follow the Spanish schedule as best I can. Now, one obviously can't wait till 9 PM to eat dinner while walking 25 km a day.

We stay in private accommodation most of the time for just that reason. We want to eat in as many local restaurants as possible.

Of course, we are starved by 9:00. We often find bars with a free tapas with each beer. That has ended rather poorly on occasion.......

 

[Peregrina 2013]

Hi Annie,

Exactly what I heard from a couple of hospitaleros and some pilgrims who left the Camino Francés to join the CDN for that reason.
My experience was completely the opposite, I encountered many kind & respectful people throughout my journey of 5 weeks. Different nationalities represented, with the majority being French and German, (only one US pilgrim!), not once was there a moment of inconsideration or rudeness! It was a marvelous trip. The Camino Francés, unfortunately has become more of a holiday/party getaway, -thanks (or not!) to the movie "The Way, not only for Americans, but for many others as well! I hope there are no more movies promoting the other routes, otherwise, it will too, change for the worse!

Ultreia!

Mary

 

[Thornley]

will say this. If you are firmly committed to never making reservations at a private albuergue 2-3 days in advance, then the Camino Frances is not the place for you. Time to go try the Norte.

There are some sections on the Norte where it is VERY advisable to book in advance.
The commencement of the Norte is harder than St.JPdP in our opinion and the distances a tad longer.
The albergues are also not as frequent and pensions are a must in some seaside villages.
In saying that we never booked on the Norte or Le Puy but used many , many pensions whenever we felt like stopping.

I am returning with my sister in 3 weeks on the Frances and WILL avoid every town/village we stayed in when first walked in 07 , except Dumbria .

We will NOT stay in an albergue that takes cyclists and/or has more that 30 beds.
Private albergues will be required for this and some days will be very short , however we will have a ball ........there will be ***** no rushing for the 48 days [ allowed] to Muxia.

I think if people only expect to walk the Camino "once" then booking in advance and using up market
accommodation becomes more frequent.

As long as the village has a bar to meet the locals for the LUNCH time meal then thats where we prefer to stay. Wonderful conversations then and normally later with more of the family..

 

[Deleted member 3000]

No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!

 

[Tia Valeria]

No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!

Does this mean that I now have to add in a servant to my 'must have list' to run ahead and secure accomodation. :lol:

Seriously Falcon I am not sure that the recent posts can class as 'raging', and booking accomodation etc is as much done 'in faith' and a part of the Camino as is not booking. The 'Camino's Way' for some is a quiet walk...............etc

 

[newfydog]

We will NOT stay in an albergue that takes cyclists .

You might find it tough to find private places which don't take cyclists. Lots of wonderful people on those bikes though, you could try talking to some of them before deciding they are untouchables.

 

[David]

We will NOT stay in an albergue that takes cyclists .

We have bikeists now? :|

I seem to remember that cyclists aren't usually allowed to stay until late as if late and weary walkers come and the refugio will be full then it is easier for them to cycle to the next refugio
I have also heard of cyclists taking a forgotten item onwards and giving it back the pilgrim who forgot it ..

so ... Thornley, what is your thing about cyclists? :?:

 

[NoQ]

No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!

This has been exactly my experience so far. In the places I have stayed at till now (currently Burgos) only in Zubiri were beds hard to get after 7. Then again, I Wold imagine very few people would want to tarry a stage till such an hour. It's the height of summer now and there are loads of beds, with some albergues I have stayed at being less than even half full.

 

[NoQ]

We will NOT stay in an albergue that takes cyclists .

We have bikeists now? :|

I seem to remember that cyclists aren't usually allowed to stay until late as if late and weary walkers come and the refugio will be full then it is easier for them to cycle to the next refugio
I have also heard of cyclists taking a forgotten item onwards and giving it back the pilgrim who forgot it ..

so ... Thornley, what is your thing about cyclists? :?:

While I have nothing against cyclists and enjoy conversing with them just like walkers, this is not necessarily the case as a couple of days ago 4 cyclists were directly in front of me in the queue for Granon at 1.30.

 

[waveprof]

No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!

This has been exactly my experience so far. In the places I have stayed at till now (currently Burgos) only in Zubiri were beds hard to get after 7. Then again, I Wold imagine very few people would want to tarry a stage till such an hour. It's the height of summer now and there are loads of beds, with some albergues I have stayed at being less than even half full.

We found the same till we hit the meseta (fewer options) and Galicia (hordes of short-distance hikers). Not saying you'll change your mind, nor am I trying to change it, but since you are in Burgos, I felt it was worth the warning.

Also, since you are in Burgos, go have an ice cream at Sucrum for me. You won't be sorry you did.

 

[Thornley]

Thornley, what is your thing about cyclists?

David ,
I have not one thing against cyclists. :wink:
However old mate,
In 07 we stayed in the larger albergues as it was like a moving family in those years and many of the smaller/private albergues were not up and running.
As we wised up , especially after the Portuguese [ the worst for bikes/walkers ratio in our opinion] we found that the smaller , out of the way albergues 12-30beds ,on any camino route we walked were more enjoyable.
We also found that the cyclists who arrived late [ as they would after riding many a long hour and distance] would shower , use the kitchen and enjoy life as they should 8)
However David old mate , this was always near " lights off" time and facilities on many occasions were beside the bedrooms.
I cycle and my kids do ultra marathons , but this year David I am are going for a very casual walk with my sister who has had major knee surgery and i do not intend to repeat an albergue or town if possible
David , and you also Falcon , must realise why i love turning right at Hospital and head towards Muxia.
Just picture that beautiful,new albergue in Dumbria waiting for only the bag carriers and the man with the horse , they have a good system once past Santiago :wink:

No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!

Falcon ,
May i ask you this ;
I arrive at Belorado :arrow:
Do i go to the new one [ A Santiago] with pool, internet, gardens and different quality rooms or maybe old china just walk a bit further and go and sleep on a mattress beside the church with the other 22 pilgrims who love peace and quiet in a lovely setting :?:
If tired or really fresh mate i will be in Casa Waslala and enjoying the square until very late, maybe having a red with the newly arriving cyclists

 

[NoQ]

No matter how one rages against the Camino, you will adjust to it; it won't adjust to you. It is easy to find a bed if you do it the Camino's way!

This has been exactly my experience so far. In the places I have stayed at till now (currently Burgos) only in Zubiri were beds hard to get after 7. Then again, I Wold imagine very few people would want to tarry a stage till such an hour. It's the height of summer now and there are loads of beds, with some albergues I have stayed at being less than even half full.

We found the same till we hit the meseta (fewer options) and Galicia (hordes of short-distance hikers). Not saying you'll change your mind, nor am I trying to change it, but since you are in Burgos, I felt it was worth the warning.

Also, since you are in Burgos, go have an ice cream at Sucrum for me. You won't be sorry you did.

Didn't find Sucrum, but enjoyed a lovely Dominos pizza!
In Hornillos and at the lovely new albergue. It's 3.40 pm and about a third full. Very quiet and super hospitalero / owner. Just wandered back from the church where the municipal looks busy, but again no worries at all with regards to numbers. Great weather and everyone I talk to is happy and really enjoying their Camino. I don't know what a May Camino is like but July has been a fantastic month to walk the Camino.

 

[Chamois]

I walked my first Camino June-July and found if I wanted to be on "party camino" I'd follow the Brierley stages,race for beds n be surrounded by like minded folks OR I could walk a little slower, let the "hares" race to their next recommended,documented three star stop and leave me peacefully in between in small villages with fellow turtles soaking up the experience.
I'm sure it has changed and I'm equally as sure you can find a beautiful experience if you aren't afraid to step out of the herd and follow your own heart. All things change and I heard some saying the Camino is sick...I can see that but, like all things in life, you get out of it what you put into it and just maybe something will happen along the way that touches the hearts of the camino tourists and they open n become just a tiny bit kinder/happier/stronger/faithful etc....then didn't the Camino provide again.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Belorado: Hotel Jacabeo! Comfort at a price.

 

[mralisn]

Whoa! Reading this entire thread was more exhausting than my 51km day on the Camino Norte.

So very sorry Annie had such an experience. Especially her, not deserved. Great to read she's moved on down the road.

A wonderful job by most to stay on topic and extend the helping hand in your own special way to all of us. While the veteran posters are invaluable, the newer contributors have given such great perspective.

For me, everyday is a great day on the Camino.

Keep a smile,
Simeon

 

[supersullivan]

Feel I must add my own tuppence worth to the whole reservations mullarkey, bar I day this year ( into Leon when I was going to Parador San Marcos ), my earliest finish was 4 pm and the majority of my days I finished between 5 and 6, never made a reservation, only finish I couldn't get a place in an albergue was my day into Burgos when I got to the municial about 6 pm,but plenty of small hotels to fall back on, in Los Arcos and Gonzar I got the last place in my albergue of choice but there were 'fall back' albergues readily available in these locations.
In the main I tried to avoid staying in 'stage end' locations and always tried to finish somewhere I would have at least a choice of albergues and if possible a small hotel too or Casa Rural.
As I was covering longer than average distances I tended to have walking companions for just half days here and there but I always had the freedom to walk on to the next village/town if i didn't see anywhere that appealed. Think that at least to some degree the herd mindset leads to some of the 'completo' scenes that others seem to have encountered this year or maybe my namesake was choosing to look down on me kindly.

Regards

Seamus

 

[Thornley]

Seamus old mate,
There must be a bit of " mother england in you"
You don't walk in the arvo ,
Stop after 5 -6 hours , depending on the terrain
Have a shower,
Join/watch the locals @ lunch , have a sleep / nap after lunch and then
Go out and have "meal of the day " , no pilgrims menu mate .
Enjoy the Vino , getting expensive with the falling dollar

And when you get to Muxia , have the best wine available in Bar Lorena.

Have many more ways Seamus,
David

 

[dmantony]

My only prayer is to meet people who are better than me and not be the pilgrim who ends up in a negative post.
After months of reading the Forum in preparation for my Camino in late September my feeling is the Forum is a good cross-section of the Camino population: A few nay-sayers, but on the whole, a generous and welcoming group. I am excited, apprehensive, prayerful, and find myself crying when I think of the trip.

 

[dmantony]

...or as the great sage Groucho Marx said: I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.

 

[mralisn]

...or as the great sage Groucho Marx said: I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.

I love this! Funny and humbling. This will be my thought for the day.

 

[traceyann63]

I

I met two of those 'terrible' American youngsters on Camino three years ago. This pair were Texans (Texicans, pilgrim)

They had been boyfriend and girlfriend and went on Camino together to see how they would respond to each other away from all home support and under duress - they had a wonderful time.

After that Camino they went home and married. I met them near Logrono on their second Camino, their honeymoon.

They were quite wonderful, they smiled a lot, they laughed a lot, they were young and in love and full of life and goodness - I wanted to take them home and keep them as pets.

I love the young - that energy, that openness, that belief that they already know lots, that willingness to learn more, that belief that the world can be made better, that willingness to love .... marvellous.

I say - get the young of the world out on Camino![

 

[julie]

I am excited, apprehensive, prayerful, and find myself crying when I think of the trip.

You are already very well practised for the Camino. In my experience, walking the Camino is a see-saw of emotions. Sometimes excitement, sometimes apprehension, sometimes feeling the need to pray and sometimes crying for no apparent reason. In fact, it's quite possible to feel the whole lot at the same time.

 

[MissM]

I walked the Camino during June and never came across acts of unkindness. Yes, sometimes something went missing from the fridge but I like to think no one could distinguish one tomato from another and thought it was theirs and does it REALLY matter, not on the scale of things. I found people were amazingly friendly and I saw overwhelmingly thoughtfulness from young and old. It returned home thinking I'm just so glad to be a part of this.

 

[JillHives]

I walked Sept-Oct 2012 and what I remember most is the peace I felt. I ran across some opportunistic and unpleasant people. Found some personalities, despite being friendly, completely unbearable. I was extremely tired, hungry and in pain at points, so I am sure (even though I'm quiet and unconfrontational by nature) I came off poorly at times too. We all have our moments. Having said that, I loved every minute of my journey and was also greeted with kindness I have never known before. I think after the first week where it seemed everyone's only priority was trying to claim a bed first, I just let it all go. I didn't want to get caught up in the vibe in the air. As Pieces said, it's easy to get swayed by the moods around you.

I met so many lovely people. Had so many lovely conversations. Made friends I know I will still have for years to come. I think for myself, encountering the few bouts of unpleasantness provided more encouragement. It reminded me of who I didn't want to be and why I was there. It was such an amazing experience both the good and the bad. Looking back, I even forget the pain and hobbling.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

it seemed everyone's only priority was trying to claim a bed first

When that is the reality, it makes sense to me to join them rather than fight them! You don't mold the camino, you accept it. You can reject the hurried mindset, but if you don't accept the reality, you pay a price. Many of the very pleasant people you meet at dinner were active participants in the bed race. It makes little sense to me to be mad at them, particularly if it gives you an attitude that ruins your camino experience. It is simply a fact that many pilgrims will not walk the camino you have created in your mind. It is your creation, not theirs.

Solutions include staying in hostales, stopping in small villages, making reservations when possible, using a baggage service so you can walk faster and further, and camping. All will help preserve a positive attitude!

 

[peregrina2000]

My first reaction on reading falcon's brilliant post was to hit the like button, but I think it deserves a shout-out here rather than a click of the like button. Once again, falcon, you say it beautifully! Laurie

 

[JillHives]

When that is the reality, it makes sense to me to join them rather than fight them! You don't mold the camino, you accept it. You can reject the hurried mindset, but if you don't accept the reality, you pay a price. Many of the very pleasant people you meet at dinner were active participants in the bed race. It makes little sense to me to be mad at them, particularly if it gives you an attitude that ruins your camino experience. It is simply a fact that many pilgrims will not walk the camino you have created in your mind. It is your creation, not theirs.

Solutions include staying in hostales, stopping in small villages, making reservations when possible, using a baggage service so you can walk faster and further, and camping. All will help preserve a positive attitude!

To clarify, I was not mad at them but was getting swept up in that being my top concern, so I opted out. I just decided if I didn't get a bed and I needed to sleep outside that would be fine. I didn't go on camino to be in a rush everyday (even if on a schedule) so let that stress around me roll off my back and from that point it made it more peaceful. I never went without a bed.

 

[indyrem]

Is it just me?
Or is the Camino different this year?

People are not as kind. There are a lot of people acting more like tourists, complaining and even arguing with nuns about which bed they get. Stealing food. Stealing clothes and towels. I'm just getting more and more depressed.

Last night I had my stuff on a chair next to my bed. I came back from dinner to find it all dumped on the floor and another 'pilgrim' had their pack on the chair.

There was a fight in the albergue last night. People screamed at each other and it became physical.

People were overheard booking 2-3 places, saying they'd walk to wherever they could and wouldn't bother cancelling. They just wouldn't show up. No problem.

I put a nice piece of melon in the fridge for my breakfast and came back to find it smashed under bags of heavy wine and beer. When I was trying to rescue it, I got a stern lecture from some guy about how unenvironmentally aware I was being by holding the fridge door open. Sheesh !

I mean, people are just behaving horribly.
I honestly don't want to be here.
I'm so depressed I wish I knew how to get an earlier flight home.

Is it me???

 

[BrianForbesColgate]

FWIW, two friends walked the Francés in April-May this year and one suggested -- without further comment -- that I might enjoy the Caminho da Porto - Coastal [Green] route much better. After reading Johnnie Walker’s and others’ comments in light of these discussions, I am inclined to agree about the alternate route.http://www.caminodesantiago.me/comm...-experience-of-camino-portuges-coastal.11175/So far I am still planning on the Francés, but mainly because I am also going to Vimy Ridge and Lourdes, and this will likely be my one and only chance to walk the Camino.

 

[naplesdon]

I did the Porto to Santiago route 2013 and can confirm it is a "must do" and a totally wonderful experience, even in July it is relatively free of crowds; but I'm going back to the France next year just because I miss all of the human interaction and drama that goes on with the hordes of pilgrims jostling to discover whatever it is they came to find and hopefully that is some sort of inner peace !

 

[k-fun]

This tread started in June. I am curious...Is the Camino still different? or has the Spirit of the Camino overcome a few bumps?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The OP long ago:

Anyway. Thanks for your responses. I still feel the movie or popularity has changed the Camino, and not in positive ways.

I also realize this has been a rough year for me personally and so I'm sure my own depression has something to do with it. Not feeling strong enough to finish the VDP was difficult to swallow and MP's death hit hard.

Like I said, maybe it's me

I do feel ready to go home.

The Camino was always different; it was never the same. Attitudes change, that is all. One person's bad day is simply one observation.

 

[MendiWalker]

I´m very sad Anniesantiago that you have undergone such behavior by some so called peregrinos.
The Camino is exactly the same as it was from day one. You´ll come across good. You´ll also come across fake peregrinos.
The only difference from then to now is the numbers. nowadays certain Caminos are so to say "overcrowded". Books & movies
do help to make people aware of the Camino but also attract people in search of a cheap way of tourism . Unfortunately the bad
stick out more than the good.

Buen Camino!

 

[fortview]

Having just joined the Frances from the Primitivo,and having walked the Frances last year . Wow! It is different indeed. Got a chocolate as a welcome in an albergue in Melide last night! And the use of a hair drier there and also in Arzua tonight. There are lots more bars and albergues. Have seen places offering vegetarian menu and gluten free menu ! Albergues seem spotlessly clean, bed bug precautions in place . The greetings on arrival have been very special. Its all been a really pleasant surprise.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Wow! This thread has really gone places I didn't expect. It's been a joy to read!

Now that I've been home a couple of months, and had time to reflect, I realize that there was truth in my comment that "the Camino was different" as well as Reb's comment "Annie is different this year!"

Both were true.

Because of The Way, or maybe just word of mouth, there were MANY more pilgrims on the route than I've ever seen before.
And many more demanding "tourists."
Hopefully, many of those tourists became pilgrims while walking, as it says in "Six Ways to Santiago."

I had to book lodging much more than in the past - finding places complete many times.

I met several VERY rude pilgrims - perhaps I was walking in a cloud of negativity attracting more of the same?
I admit that's possible - I was not in good spirits much of the time.
If my few Caminos were heaven, this one was definitely hell much of the time.

By the way, I saw the film yesterday and it was wonderful.
I left aching for the Camino.
And as usual, even though the day I left Spain I thought it could be my last Camino,
now I find myself planning to finish the VDLP in 2015.
My friend, Joe, will be leading our group this year, but I'm starting to save for 2015.
I MUST finish the VDLP!!!
I have no choice! lol

As far as "Annie was different" that is absolutely true.
I had problems and worries I could never have imagined.
The albergues on the VDLP were full of railroad workers;
There were unexpected detours,
When I jumped up to the Frances route, I froze and got sick.
Death seemed to be my constant companion.
My friend Methodist Pilgrim died on the Camino right before we were scheduled to meet up..
My sister in law was dying of cancer and wanted to see me, but I couldn't get home..
The airlines wanted to charge me over 1000 euros to change my ticket and so I missed seeing her before she passed.
My experience with a place I had recommended others to stay turned out to be a mistake...

Just another day on the Camino! lol!
But for me, it was the most difficult Camino yet.

Anyway... I'm still here, and I'm planning my next trip.
The film has inspired me once again and I'm feeling antsy...
So if you'll be walking in Spring 2015, say hi!

Thanks for all your comments, negative as well as positive.
It's been good reading!
Buen Camino!

 

[stevenjarvis]

Wow! ....
Buen Camino!

Congratulations , and commiserations. What an adventure, and what obstacles to overcome, which you did. I admire your resolve and determination. Thank you for the inspiration. Happy planning for 2015 !

 

[deefbro]

I am exhausted just reading all this!... glad I had a wine or two to keep me going!!

This thread has provided a range of emotions.... sometimes sad and worrying, others times a quiet chuckle, some quite profound and thought provoking.... BUT NEVER NEVER boring!!!
Thank you all!

PS.....Annie, the originator of this thread, I can only send my thoughts and best wishes to what you have gone through....
Hoping the dark skies have parted and the sun is shining through.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Yup! The sun is shining bright! Thanks!

 

[freescot]

I find that many of our experiences, whether positive or negative can be attributed to mood or expectations; mostly our own.

This is exactly so. If I enter a village and find the people distant the I know I'm going through a difficult moment. For me, I meet a red light and need to stop (myself) whenever I begin to be annoyed by other people. I am then sure something is up with me.

But I replied to Davisretired before finishing reading the thread and Annie's wonderful reflection on it.

We are all different each time, as Rebekah said of Annie, we do a Camino and each Camino is a part of our own real journey. For me my caminos are markers which remind me where I once was. Once I could easily have been a youth squashing your grapes with my beer cans.
Now,I find myself saying more and more, like Victor Meldrew, "I can't believe it!" - whether it's tablets or the fact that they've put Corpus Christi on a Sunday.

Blessings on all of us.

 

[ajp]

Is it just me?
Or is the Camino different this year?

People are not as kind. There are a lot of people acting more like tourists, complaining and even arguing with nuns about which bed they get. Stealing food. Stealing clothes and towels. I'm just getting more and more depressed.

Last night I had my stuff on a chair next to my bed. I came back from dinner to find it all dumped on the floor and another 'pilgrim' had their pack on the chair.

There was a fight in the albergue last night. People screamed at each other and it became physical.

People were overheard booking 2-3 places, saying they'd walk to wherever they could and wouldn't bother cancelling. They just wouldn't show up. No problem.

I put a nice piece of melon in the fridge for my breakfast and came back to find it smashed under bags of heavy wine and beer. When I was trying to rescue it, I got a stern lecture from some guy about how unenvironmentally aware I was being by holding the fridge door open. Sheesh !

I mean, people are just behaving horribly.
I honestly don't want to be here.
I'm so depressed I wish I knew how to get an earlier flight home.

Is it me???

So sorry to hear this.
Where are you - on which camino?

It is different, I just returned from my second camino and found it crowded with a lot of pilgrims just being tourists ( no packsack to carry, luggage being forwarded to the next private Auberge), lots of complaining and down right miserable people...mostly the older crowd, the young people were invariably friendly and pleasant. Also a lot of pilgrims who did not have a clue about gear, footwear, where they were going or even where they were.....made you wonder if some of them could read! I concluded there are a lot of people on that trail that are there simply because they saw the movie and decided it would be a cool thing to do. Facilities are overcrowded and in many of the smaller towns, inadequate to the number of pilgrims. Having said that, the majority of pilgrims I met were well equipped, pleasant and obviously enjoying the experience, but there were a lot more of the former type than when I first walked in 2009.

 

[santiago_67]

This year is my first Camino so I offer to make no comparisons to years, decades, or centuries past on the Way.

I have found nothing but light, hope and openness among my fellow peregrinos. I also have been surprised by how _few_ people there are on the Camino Frances, after reading some complaints here. I leave around 9am, walk until 3 to 5, and have yet to see more than a half dozen fellow pilgrims in a day. On 3 or 4 days I have literally seen no other walkers, just a few passing cyclists. I have purposely started and ended in between the traditional stages, and (following a tip I learned here from Anniesantiago) I aim for the albergue with the fewest beds, on the contrarian (and so far correct) theory that most pilgrims assume they will already be full, thereby skipping them and ironically leaving them wide open. I have yet to stay anywhere full after the muni in Zubiri.

From a Zen perspective, the root of all suffering comes from our attachments to ideas about how things should be or remembered narratives of how things once were. The only Camino that exists in reality is the one that arises in this moment. Our path out of suffering lies in meeting that experience as it arises.

I have learned so much from the veteran peregrinos on this forum, and from no one more than the OP. But I can't help but observe moments of attachment in all of us from time to time to ideas about "our" Camino, "better" past Caminos, "more authentic pre-movie" Caminos, etc. However alluring and attractive, those Caminos do not exist. They are delusions that only trap us in more suffering.

The movie or the weather or the economy may be different than in the past, but the peregrino whose Camino runs through 'The Way' has no less authentic a Camino than those for whom a past Camino is remembered differently. To the contrary, the authenticity and warmth of a candle flame is never diminished when used to light a thousand more flames, or a million. In my view, the movie is just a modern version of the bridge built by Santo Domingo. If it brings more warmth and love to more people, it only makes the world a brighter and warmer place. Faith, hope and love are not subject to the second law of thermodynamics.

My own flame has been lighted anew on this year's Camino Frances. No one's candle on this forum has done more to fuel that flame than Anniesantiago. Your candle may be flickering at the moment - dont be afraid to relight it from some of the very same flames you helped light to begin with. That is the reason we each have candles in our hearts

Buen Camino.

Namaste

 

[jpflavin1]

One thing we can count on in life is that things will change.

I love the Camino. No matter how much it might change, It still teaches me something new each time we meet.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[Olivares]

It is different, I just returned from my second camino and found it crowded with a lot of pilgrims just being tourists ( no packsack to carry, luggage being forwarded to the next private Auberge), lots of complaining and down right miserable people...mostly the older crowd, the young people were invariably friendly and pleasant. Also a lot of pilgrims who did not have a clue about gear, footwear, where they were going or even where they were.....made you wonder if some of them could read! I concluded there are a lot of people on that trail that are there simply because they saw the movie and decided it would be a cool thing to do. Facilities are overcrowded and in many of the smaller towns, inadequate to the number of pilgrims. Having said that, the majority of pilgrims I met were well equipped, pleasant and obviously enjoying the experience, but there were a lot more of the former type than when I first walked in 2009.

Your assumption that a pilgrim that does not carry a ramsack is nothing but a tourist is absolutely wrong. I am pretty sure that those pilgrims with chronic back pains, assymetric joints, and injured neck/shoulders would be very well insulted by you calling their pilgrimage nothing but a vacation. I know I am. To many it is either do the pilgrimage and don't carry the back load or don't do the pilgrimage at all. The fact that they STILL get on the Camino (add old age to mix) makes them MORE of a pilgrim than many that I see carrying their own while sprinting to the next Albergue. Don't be so quick to judge and dismiss. One day you may need the understanding you seemed to be lacking today...

 

[renegadepilgrim]

Annie, I'm sorry to hear of all of your difficulties this year on the Camino. Having walked in 2010, 2012 and serving as a hospitalera in 2011, I noticed a difference too. And of course, so was I.

I think after I do the Norte in 2015, I will be done...there are other paths to walk (Lycian Way, Shikoku 88, Jesus/Nativity/Abraham Trails/Paths) and I just found out about a short one in Hawaii on the Big Island that looks promising. I don't post much on here anymore because it's just too nasty. I pop in a few times a year and see what's going on and it's just more nastiness. I'm just as guilty of it too. We all are. So much for the lessons we learn on the Camino, eh?

Annie, if you're in "town" let me know. I'd love to meet up for coffee! Hang in there lady!

 

[Anniesantiago]

Annie, I'm sorry to hear of all of your difficulties this year on the Camino. Having walked in 2010, 2012 and serving as a hospitalera in 2011, I noticed a difference too. And of course, so was I.

I think after I do the Norte in 2015, I will be done...there are other paths to walk (Lycian Way, Shikoku 88, Jesus/Nativity/Abraham Trails/Paths) and I just found out about a short one in Hawaii on the Big Island that looks promising. I don't post much on here anymore because it's just too nasty. I pop in a few times a year and see what's going on and it's just more nastiness. I'm just as guilty of it too. We all are. So much for the lessons we learn on the Camino, eh?

Annie, if you're in "town" let me know. I'd love to meet up for coffee! Hang in there lady!

Heeeeeyyyyy, Renegade! I just bought a house with my son in SE Portland! I'll PM you.

 

[ajp]

Your assumption that a pilgrim that does not carry a ramsack is nothing but a tourist is absolutely wrong. I am pretty sure that those pilgrims with chronic back pains, assymetric joints, and injured neck/shoulders would be very well insulted by you calling their pilgrimage nothing but a vacation. I know I am. To many it is either do the pilgrimage and don't carry the back load or don't do the pilgrimage at all. The fact that they STILL get on the Camino (add old age to mix) makes them MORE of a pilgrim than many that I see carrying their own while sprinting to the next Albergue. Don't be so quick to judge and dismiss. One day you may need the understanding you seemed to be lacking today...

Olivares; you are pretty quick to judge yourself. I was not referring to those who through physical limitations were unable to carry a pack, ( that should have been obvious), I was referring the many perfectly able bodied ( and proud of it) people who simply were too lazy to carry their pack and preferred to walk it without. There were a lot of them, they were on a vacation, tourists doing something because it was cool,or had seen the movie etc etc, nothing more. Seems to me that is not what a pilgrimage is about ..... a little effort makes it real. My point was I did not see any of that in 2009, with the obvious and completely justifiable exceptions.
It also requires a little effort to be non judgmental about other peoples opinions, and to respect the views of others without jumping to (erroneous) conclusions. Buen Camino!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

people who simply were too lazy to carry their pack and preferred to walk it without

Ouch!!

 

[Olivares]

Olivares; you are pretty quick to judge yourself. I was not referring to those who through physical limitations were unable to carry a pack, ( that should have been obvious), I was referring the many perfectly able bodied ( and proud of it) people who simply were too lazy to carry their pack and preferred to walk it without. There were a lot of them, they were on a vacation, tourists doing something because it was cool,or had seen the movie etc etc, nothing more. Seems to me that is not what a pilgrimage is about ..... a little effort makes it real. My point was I did not see any of that in 2009, with the obvious and completely justifiable exceptions.
It also requires a little effort to be non judgmental about other peoples opinions, and to respect the views of others without jumping to (erroneous) conclusions. Buen Camino!

Your "clarification" post is actually even MORE judgemental than the original! Way to go!

To use "perfectly able bodied", "too lazy", " a lot of them"-- NONE of these labels you use to describe people on the Camino are as obvious as you think they are and that makes you judgemental-- they are your words, not mine.... I have a sister with chronic fybromyalgia who looks like a supermodel-- if you place 5 pounds on her back and ask her to walk 21 Kms you will be sending her afterwards to bed for a week....simple as that. BTW, she walked the Camino in 2009.

Hey, none of us are here to preach, but to share...and that that was the gyst of my previous post...Buen Camino!

 

[Pieces]

I was referring the many perfectly able bodied ( and proud of it) people who simply were too lazy to carry their pack and preferred to walk it without. There were a lot of them, they were on a vacation, tourists doing something because it was cool,or had seen the movie etc etc, nothing more.
It also requires a little effort to be non judgmental about other peoples opinions, and to respect the views of others without jumping to (erroneous) conclusions. Buen Camino!

right *coughs*

 

[JohnMcM]

Goodness me folks! Maybe it's time to cool it huh?
Each to their own:
Patience.
Tolerance.
Respect for each other's views and forum rules seem appropriate here maybe?

 

[Anniesantiago]

There is no "real" way to walk a pilgrimage.
That fact has been stated in this forum over and over and over again.

Each person walks their OWN way.
If they want to be a tourist they will be a tourist.
If they want to wear expensive gear and perfume, they will
If they want to walk barefoot in the snow, they will.
If they want to talk on their electronics, or party until late, they will.

I can complain, but I can't change anyone else.

Able bodied people who prefer to have their pack transported have that option.
They always HAVE had that option, from the beginning.
People who could afford it had others carrying their luggage.
It doesn't make the pilgrimage any less valid.

Does the pilgrimage office ask if you carried your pack?
I don't remember having that question asked?
I think they only ask if you walked?

Each person's Camino is their own.
There are stops in place for those who use bag transport, another fact which has often been stated in the forum.
Often, municipal albergues will not accept people who use bag transport.
Those people can use private lodging.

No matter how annoying other pilgrims may be (and I agree they can be annoying as hell),
they have just as much right to be there as the rest of us.
And bottom line,
we can't control who does and does not walk the Camino
and we can't control HOW they walk it.

We can only control whether or not we're willing to be a part of the soup.

When we're not, we have other route options.
Or we can choose not to walk.

I waffle... but almost always vote in favor of walking in the end.
I also complain... that's ok too.
But can't we be kind to each other, at least on this forum?
There will be enough grouchy people to deal with when we walk!

 

[JohnMcM]

I waffle.........!

I don't believe you do Annie. I believe you speak your mind and help others to understand the true spirit of a Camino.

Bravo!

Buen Camino

 

[stevenjarvis]

... so Sedan chair is an option ?

 

[MichaelB10398]

It has been said for some time that when we sacrifice we gain something. How others walk the Camino is their own business and there is nothing to judge. They will get out of the Camino exactly what they put into it. I feel that when you sacrifice something, when it causes some discomfort or even degree of pain, we learn something about ourselves and about life.

I personally don't really like to see bicycles on the Camino; my choice is to not bring a bike. If others choose to bike that does not invalidate my Camino and my choices; it is their choice and I wish them well....unless they zip by me at 60 mph and startle me. I have a thing about being startled when in deep contemplation. Oh, who am I kidding the contemplation starts and within a few minutes I am thinking about the first time I heard "Begin the Beguine" or the first time I heard Janice Joplin sing "Piece of My Heart".

Change is a daily occurrence and we are in a constant state of adapting. Happiness is found easiest by not fighting the change so often that we become overwhelmed. Avoid those things that annoy you and focus on that which brings a smile to your face.

 

[Al the optimist]

Time for me to ignore this thread I think

 

[Annie Little]

Funny thing is that I was WISHING to walk the Camino in order to avoid all this sort of thing… judgements etc…. I can stay at home and get that ….. LIVE AND LET LIVE FOLKS… that IS the bottom line .. I believe !

Buen Camino

 

[stevenjarvis]

Time for me to ignore this thread I think

Al the optimist, I don't imagine it's the entire thread that you need to ignore, maybe just a particular user. It's a shame to have to miss out on an entire intelligent threads contents, best regards, Steven

 

[grayland]

Members are entitled to differing opinions ....regardless of whether they are popular or agree with you.
Attacking them with personal remarks is not allowed in the forum.

The thread is locked to avoid more problems.