It's Different This Year

[Anniesantiago]

Is it just me?
Or is the Camino different this year?

People are not as kind. There are a lot of people acting more like tourists, complaining and even arguing with nuns about which bed they get. Stealing food. Stealing clothes and towels. I'm just getting more and more depressed.

Last night I had my stuff on a chair next to my bed. I came back from dinner to find it all dumped on the floor and another 'pilgrim' had their pack on the chair.

There was a fight in the albergue last night. People screamed at each other and it became physical.

People were overheard booking 2-3 places, saying they'd walk to wherever they could and wouldn't bother cancelling. They just wouldn't show up. No problem.

I put a nice piece of melon in the fridge for my breakfast and came back to find it smashed under bags of heavy wine and beer. When I was trying to rescue it, I got a stern lecture from some guy about how unenvironmentally aware I was being by holding the fridge door open. Sheesh !

I mean, people are just behaving horribly.
I honestly don't want to be here.
I'm so depressed I wish I knew how to get an earlier flight home.

Is it me???

 

[anniethenurse]

So sorry to hear this.
Where are you - on which camino?

 

[Pieces]

I don't know as I am not on the Camino. Could it be the bad weather taking it's toll on people ?

Maybe you can fall back a day, could be a totally different crowd, negativity is often contagious...

 

[Dawntreader]

This is quite disheartening to hear a mere 2 months before i begin walking myself...hopefully this is just a pocket of people and not a new breed of camino walkers. Not being a thief or rude by nature myself, i can't relate to these behaviors and find it hard to understand why such folks would choose to walk the camino in the first place...surely there are far easier and less expensive places to steal and be a demanding self entitled "tourista" than a 500 mile trek across Spain?

 

[grayland]

Actually, I have the same vibes that Annie has. Even here on the forum there seems to be a different undercurrent of expectations and understanding of the Camino than a year or so ago.

Many people now on the Camino or just returned have shared that the Camino spirit has flown and that there are a lot of people problems.
I wonder if Annie has noted if the problem is mainly with a particular group or groups?

It will be a shame if the Camino has changed that much and that the much loved comradeship is gone.

 

[newfydog]

I'm so sorry to hear that, but it is what I have been worrying would come.

I have been telling friends to only go off season, and have pretty much decided that I won't be doing the Frances again.

If I were you, I'd train or bus the heck away from the group you are with, to either a favorite part of the Frances, or some other route.

Hope it gets better.

 

[JohnMcM]

Actually, I have the same vibes that Annie has. Even here on the forum there seems to be a different undercurrent of expectations and understanding of the Camino than a year or so ago.

Many people now on the Camino or just returned have shared that the Camino spirit has flown and that there are a lot of people problems.
I wonder if Annie has noted if the problem is mainly with a particular group or groups?

It will be a shame if the Camino has changed that much and that the much loved comradeship is gone.

Grayland,
What do you mean by different undercurrent please?

 

[LTfit]

This is truly unfortunate Annie and I hope that the rest of your Camino will not be tainted.

And I most certainly hope that the Camino Francés has not reached a tipping point...

 

[anniethenurse]

Yes, too bad to hear.

Lee, I think Annie is on the VDLP.

 

[LTfit]

No Annie, the other Annie is on the Francés. She moved up from the Vdlp several weeks ago.

 

[anniethenurse]

ok, I see.

 

[KinkyOne]

Sooo very sad to read this :cry:
But I kind of expect this to happen. Even in my country everyone is telling me about Camino, how and when to go, everybody knows everything, suddenly they're experts on everything. The movie!!!

@Anniesantiago
If I could I would come immediately and take you away on San Salvador or Invierno

Ultreia!

 

[annakappa]

First of all, I think that Annie is most definitely an experienced Pilgrim, having walked the Camino several times and having also accompanied a group last year. Yes, I think times are changing. Personally, I think that the Francés has be come way too popular, probably because of all the facilities available along the Way, plus, of course all the publicity it has received ( films, write-up, books, etc.). It has become far too touristic. My husband has just returned, after his 6th Camino and mentioned the increased crowds and general attitude.
I have enjoyed walking in the Autumn. I wish I had suitable clothes to be able to walk even later in the year, but living in the ( semi) tropics, I'm not geared up to walking in very cold weather. This year, I am not able to go, due to family reasons, but if I can return next year, I will seriously give a thought to moving away from the Francés. Anne

 

[CaminoGen]

I have to say I'm not surprised to hear this. With all the talks of the "best" albergues, the "boring" parts to skip, etc. it is bound to change and become an "all-inclusive" type of vacation. The camino needs time and effort. Sorry if I offend anyone but I do believe that walking 4 days on the Camino does not mean you've done the Camino, just like spending a weekend on the Appalachian Trail doesn't make you a thru-hiker. I hope the camino will be a little quieter by mid-September when I rejoin the CF at Puente La Reina...

 

[Lise T]

Hi Annie

I am so sorry to read that you have had some challenging experiences.

Like Grayland, I have also noticed a change in the wind on this forum this year with the type of comments being made. The references to us being "customers" that must be catered to for the benefit of the Camino experience as been rubbing me up the wrong way.

I'm quite introverted by nature when I'm around strangers.....so I always knew that the Albergues would really test me....but hearing lots of similar experiences has me a bit worried that I will turn "turtle" and "reclusive" and never come out of my shell at all when I next go.

Annie, Im hoping, like others have suggested that perhaps you have just struck a bad bunch and maybe getting out of synch will help.

 

[NoorvanderVeen]

CaminoGen, I hope so too, I'll be there around then too. Starting from Lourdes on Sept 2. Maybe we'll meet

Ontopic:

Very sad to hear this Annie. I hope getting a day behind works and this is just a bad group of people and vibe you are accidentally in. Or maybe you can try to avoid sleeping in the 'hotspots'. I don't know where you are, but for example sleep in Barbadelos instead of Sarria. You'll know what I mean. You can avoid the big crowds in this way and enjoy a nice, peaceful walk instead of walking in a rushed and endless convoy of people.

I am really hoping you'll still be able to enjoy yourself and make it a good camino. Don't let this bunch of people get to you. Hang in there, buen camino.

 

[rafadamian]

I'm so sorry to read that. I'm not a experienced pilgrim. I've never done the Camino before, but its a dream inserted at my heart since I was 15 (twenty years ago). I've been literally dreaming about it the last 2 years, since I decided it was the right time to do it. I'll leave in Brazil a wife who doesn't understand my options and two children whom I love so much, so it was quite a difficult decision that I made. Spent 3 years saving money. One reason to do the Camino, besides others, was to experience all the humanity everybody told me about, which is one thing I miss soooo much were I live. It's really saddening news. Hope in September, when crowds fade away (they will?), I still be able to realize a dream of a lifetime.

Just so sad now.

 

[jirit]

Hi Annie

Interesting comments. I am not what route you are referring to but I assume it is the camino Frances.

Walking the via de la plata was my sixth pilgrimage and must admit I found the experience unsettling at times. I thought it was me or maybe the route itself ( the combination of the nearby superhighways A66, construction of the AVE, the lengthy stages was mentally tiring at times). It was certainly not magical or spiritual like my previous walk.

I did not see anybody break out into a fight but some the people I crossed paths with seemed out of sorts at times. Most people were generally civil though many seem to keep to themselves.

Maybe it was the crazy weather, which at times seemed to wear some of us down. Or maybe it is the Spanish economy, which must be affecting Spaniards and foreigners alike.

I am not sure if the camino has reached some tipping point, but maybe the everyday world we live in, is colliding with the spiritual camino world we seek to find.

I can say this was not one of better camino experiences and it left pondering if I would do another camino again. Hopefully that feeling will pass over time.

 

[tyrrek]

I believe in leading by example, and just as Pieces said that negativity can be contagious, so can positivity. We know as forum members what the spirit of the camino should be and we have to stick to that. For example, we've had depressing threads in the past about litter, after which several people pledged to take a bag along part of the route and pick up obvious trash as they walked. It won't solve the problem completely of course, but it's amazing how people notice when you do that kind of thing and I'd like to think it impacts on behaviour. (It's a good conversation starter as well.)

I had a great time last year, and despite Annie's shocking experiences I'm sure the whole thing can't have gone so bad so quickly. Continue to look forward to your caminos if you're lucky enough to have one planned.

Buen Camino!

 

[colinPeter]

I mean, people are just behaving horribly.
I honestly don't want to be here.

Hola Annie,
Very sorry to hear your report. I agree with the advice given by several already, try and change the stage pattern you are in. If time permits, stop a day or 2 somewhere and link up with those walking behind you. We've all seen difficult people along the way, hopefully this just a bunch on the same schedule.
Buen Camino
Colin

 

[grayland]

A post has been deleted due to inappropriate remarks toward another member.

A reminder to refrain from personal posts regarding other members.

 

[Laliibeans]

I hope this is just a bad bunch of people or an example of contagious negativity, and not a sign of things to come. The Camino is a dream for many people, my mum and myself included, and it'd be a real shame if the experience was marred by the thoughtless actions of others.

Maybe I need to make a sign for my pack to help spread some positivity. Something along the lines of "Respect, honour and benevolence", just to put the thoughts out there. It's what I aim for each day, so maybe it'll encourage others, too.

Annie, I really hope things pick up for you and that you are just with a particularly off crowd at the moment who either improve or branch away soon!

 

[Anniesantiago]

Seems I hit a nerve

Here is this morning's comment to my blog

"Just read your post on Ivar's forum. I think you are talking nonsense. Why? Because you are a tourigrino like many others and not a real pilgrim. You have taken the bus for a large part. You walk very slowly like a tourist. You have an attitude problem. Your blog is full of negativity. If you are so unhappy, just leave"

Nice. Makes me feel a lot better. Lol

Anyway. Thanks for your responses. I still feel the movie or popularity has changed the Camino, and not in positive ways.

I also realize this has been a rough year for me personally and so I'm sure my own depression has something to do with it. Not feeling strong enough to finish the VDP was difficult to swallow and MP's death hit hard.

Like I said, maybe it's me

I do feel ready to go home.

 

[Jennifer Juniper]

This is just such heartbreaking news. I expect to hear it of other places, but I always hoped the Camino could be immune from this kind of negative influence.

 

[Olivares]

Anne- very sorry to read some of the unpleasant moments you have witnessed and experienced at your Camino so far. I was on the Camino this past May and did noticed the much sullen mood among pilgrims. The weather was definitely taking a toll on the moods and testing people's focus. It is challenging to keep walking day after day under rain, wind, chill, and no sunshine. I know I had a very rough time and did noticed people keeping to themselves more than in past years.

I would suggest, as many others previously did, that you let this crowd wave go by. It may be their vibe and if so, it seems they deserve each other's company. If in fact, you feel that your heart and focus is not on the joys of YOUR pilgrimage, then listen to yourself and don't force the situation.

To the angry fellow who wrote you the nasty note, let the Camino take care of that. It will-- give it time. To judge somebody else's Camino is the opposite of everything a pilgrim is about.

Hope it all works out. Buen Camino....wherever that may take you.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is possible to have enough. My brother was on the Via de la Plata in November when the rain, isolation, and closed facilities got to him and he said, "enough."

He is back this year all the way from Le Puy.

There have always been problem pilgrims; you may have run out of your abundance of toleration, or there may be more rude pilgrims.

Treat yourself to a break!!

 

[JabbaPapa]

This has been a growing trend on the Camino for over 10 years, and I first started hearing stories like this in the late 1990s

Really, people were already starting to predict this would happen back in 1993 and '94, even though there was NONE of it at all back in those days ... but people were saying that the mass influence that started in those two years in particular would permanently change some things for the worse.

It's actually a great tribute to the true Spirit of the Camino that it's taken this long to actually come to pass !!!

I have to say I'm not surprised to hear this. With all the talks of the "best" albergues, the "boring" parts to skip, etc. it is bound to change and become an "all-inclusive" type of vacation.

Well - quite !!!

IMO, the best albergue is anywhere I can put my sleeping bag down with a roof over my head instead of being exposed to the weather -- and even then, sometimes the Via Lactea will be the hands-down best roof you can find !!!

The Camino loses much of its meaning without the "boring" parts -- they give their commonality and their ordinary, even tedious, nature to the very basis of what the Camino actually IS. They are not only the background of the more extraordinary and beautiful experiences that one can have, but they are also of the nature of the daily drudgery of several hours' worth putting one foot before the other. And they ground the Camino in the experience of the boring normality and drudgery that we have in our daily lives, on and off the Camino.

Trying to avoid all of this is indeed to treat the Camino like a tourist, not like a pilgrim.

Seems I hit a nerve

Here is this morning's comment to my blog

"Just read your post on Ivar's forum. I think you are talking nonsense. Why? Because you are a tourigrino like many others and not a real pilgrim. You have taken the bus for a large part. You walk very slowly like a tourist. You have an attitude problem. Your blog is full of negativity. If you are so unhappy, just leave"

How lovely for you Annie !!! :roll:

For my own part, I've actually learned to just STOP judging other pilgrims, and oddly enough this is from the experience of having been a very strong faster-than-most walker, mainly solitary, and having had the immense privilege of being able to walk to Santiago from home, two different homes, without any of the compromises that the great majority simply have no choice but to accept.

When you've had the experience of walking to Lourdes, where there are many different kinds of pilgrims, and you're the odd one out, or to Rome where every pilgrim, no matter HOW they may have made their way there, is of exactly equal value, it's a GREAT cure against looking down your nose at the tourist-pilgrims (no matter how annoying they may be when they grab all the beds) ...

And having one particular day out of Burgos when I hiked at near cyclist speed, and having seen two of these cyclists several times over a three day (afternoon-evening/24 hours including on the Camino/morning) period and being able to bond with them (no matter how superficially), REALLY helped to bridge that old hiker/cyclist divide in my mind !!!

And what makes the pilgrim is a certain state of mind ; NOT any external circumstances nor appearances nor travel decisions.

And it's that state of mind which is under assault by the commercialisation of the Way.

Anyway -- Buen Camino !!!!

 

[robventures]

Annie, you were (entirely justifiably) nervous of getting robbed on the first stage of the VdlP, but you actually skipped the first week; then almost right away you started fretting so much about possible detours several hundred kilometres down the way that you switched to the CF; and now the CF isn't going how you had hoped.

In the same way that people tell you to "listen to your feet" or "listen to your body", it is even more important to listen to your heart and soul - Is it possible that the Camino just isn't what you're looking for at the moment?

 

[carriedavey]

Hi Annie! Buen Camino! My wife Carol and I completed our Camino in Santiago on May 21st. This was our first (and only) Camino and at the conclusion of the journey we both felr mixed emotions.
Relief at having overcome the tyranny of distance and discomfort, and elation at the thought of returning home to Australia. I am so sorry that you feel so low and we send you loving best wishes for better days to come, hang in there kidda! It's so interesting to read your comments re: the "vibe" on the camino, particularly as they come from a veteran! I found moments of great joy on this journey, found kindness and generosity in spades, but mainly from the Spanish! SOME "pilgrims" were, shall I say? short of a little kindred spirit? The Camino is a personal journey and I know that one cannot always choose/dictate the manners and behaviour of those who share our path, however this is one of the factors in our decision to make the camino 2013 our sole pilgrimage. Another cause of some disillusionment for us, was the amount of trash we saw on the path! It made me so depressed to see candy wrappers, tissues, empty bottles (both plastic and glass) and other garbage simply dropped at the side of the track! This became a BIG issue for me!
With so many folk wishing to do the Camino, SOMEONE is going to have to do something to improve the infrastructure of "the way" or it will collapse under the weight of garbage!
Now that I have got THAT off my chest, may I say that those like yourself who do this pilgrimage from deeper motives other than "a cheap vacation" have my undying admiration, respect and esteem! The Way was an experience I'll never forget as long as I live, I am simply not up to doing another one!
Hoping that things will improve for you!
much love and good wisshes from Carol and I

Dave xx

 

[billbennettoz]

Hi Annie - it's very disturbing to hear of your experiences. It would make you want to just throw the whole thing in and go home. You expect the spirit of the Camino to be such that every pilgrim is generous, kind, compassionate, and thoughtful of others. Or at least they should try to be, because the Camino is, in part, a place where you learn life lessons.

It's mid June, and obviously it's getting crowded, and nerves are fraying because of the pressure of finding a bed each night. Lousy weather doesn't help too.

Have you thought though that perhaps this is your purpose on this Camino - to instruct others that it's not ok to be rude, or thoughtless, or selfish. Phoning several albergues and booking each, then deciding later which to stay in - that's selfish. It's potentially depriving another pilgrim of a bed, and it's diminishing the trust of hospitaleros, who act in good faith when they hold a bed.

You are an experienced pilgrim. It's not like this is your first time and you're being overly sensitive. You've walked The Way before, and you know how pilgrims should behave.

Perhaps there is change happening on the Camino, but it doesn't have to be negative. Experienced pilgrims such as yourself can make sure that change doesn't come at the expense of diminishing the Camino spirit.

So can I suggest that rather than pack up and leave, which given the circumstances would be completely understandable, you use this experience, and this pilgrimage, to try and shift the attitudes of those that aren't walking with the spirit of St. james in their hearts.

It might be difficult, and confronting at times, but perhaps this is your purpose this time around...perhaps that's why these people have been placed in your path...

(Can I just add that I walked mid April to mid May, and I found the people that I walked with to be amongst the most wonderful, kind and generous people I've ever met, and every day they filled me with joy, with laughter, and with a love of the human condition. You might have just struck a bad bunch!) Bill

 

[naplesdon]

I began to get the same feeling last year following my stop in Astorga. At the time I thought it was just me but I too was finding a huge difference in the attitude and camradarie of the pilgrim community that I had experienced in 2011. The few veteran pilgrims I met were wonderful but the day trippers, Spanish weekenders and the others who had come for a week to 10 day vacation were a totally different lot. That's the reason I chose to take the Camino Portuguese this year. Let's hope there is a fatigue factor to the fascination of "doing the Way" and it's not a tipping point. BC

 

[Anniesantiago]

Thanks everyone.
I thought I posted this but it seems to not have shown up. I apologize if it is a double post.

I appreciate all the feedback and positive thoughts.
I love coming to this forum for just that reason
It is a place I can vent and get feedback from people who have actually walked the Way and at least if I need a butt-kicking, it is from people whose opinions I respect.

I realize a lot of the problems I'm experiencing are 'mine.'
MP's death has really hit me hard, and is forcing me to look at my own life and see places I might need to make changes. There are issues in my home front that need to be dealt with. Things i have been avoiding. In many ways, this Camino is forcing me to face issues I have previously run from or avoided. So in that way, it's not a loss.

Yes, rob, it's true I was put off by the robberies on the front of the VDlP. Luckily I had walked that section a few years back so jumping to where I left off wasn't a problem. It was a beautiful route and once I'm over this bloody depression I plan on returning to finish it.

Falcon, you are right. I think I need a break. I feel better today. I'm going to take a short stage and let this large group pass me by. Then if things aren't brighter in a day or two, I'll fly to Lisbon or Rome or just hunker down in Santiago til time to head home

Anyway. Today is better. The sun is shining. I'm having a nice slice of tortilla with my coffee and the walking should be good.

Thanks again.
Annie.

 

[billbennettoz]

Annie - you have a light. You can't have walked the pilgrimages you have and not have a light.

You are walking into dark places. Shine your light there.

For them, and for all of us.

Bill

 

[LTfit]

Thanks for being so honest Annie. Maybe we all need a 'butt-kick' as you mentioned. I know that I did not contribute positively to the thread by writing that the Francés had possibly reached a tipping point. So why don't we all turn this thread around?

The Camino will be there whether we go on it or not. Some go for the solitude, others for fellowship. Some prefer the mountains, others the plain. And whether you decide to sleep in albergues or prefer a hotel we are all on the path together. So I guess that I will let my quote guide me: we must be the change we wish to see in the world.

Annie- you have received some good advice. Let us know where you end up.

Un abrazo peregrina.

p.s. There is obviously a reason that I return in the summer - I would rather deal with the heat than all that rain. I get enough of that here in Holland!

 

[anniethenurse]

Sorry to hear about the camino.

I don´t think it is only you, Annie.

Maybe The Way effect??? Many people with great expectations start walking the camino with short consideration and maybe not prepared either mental or physically for the camino.

As Grayland said on the Forum: ``Actually, I have the same vibes that Annie has. Even here on the forum there seems to be a different undercurrent of expectations and understanding of the Camino than a year or so ago.`` So true.

and as Caminogen said it : ´´ have to say I'm not surprised to hear this. With all the talks of the "best" albergues, the "boring" parts to skip, etc. it is bound to change and become an "all-inclusive" type of vacation.´´ So true.

Anyways - I will be back on the camino in August and September.
I will enjoy it and suck in all the positive energy I can!

The camino has taught me how to be by myself in the crowd. And enjoy it!

 

[pmw]

A different year, a very different Camino for me. I started the VdlPabout the same time as you Annie- we met in Salamanca, I recognised your skirt?! I chose the VdlP because I had heard the reports of crowds & bed races etc on the CF, & having walked the CF twice it seemed a good choice. First 2 weeks were awesome, then the weather turned, I got the cold/cough, pilgrims were giving up & thinning out considerably, taking the bus or giving up, & totally out of my Camino character, I too took the bus to try & escape weather & loneliness. After 3 days in Leon I walked a little but the bed race was too stressful & the rain & wind too cold, so I got straight to SdC. And then everything improved! The sun shone and the walk to Muxia was perfect! I think it's the combination of bad weather & crowds of 'tourists' that have made this year so different. I still totally believe in the Camino & it's power to empower...I did meet some wonderful kind & generous pilgrims & some not so wonderful, as in life! Annie, try a little longer, I do admire you for keeping on so far, tomorrow the sun will shine : ) P

 

[gittiharre]

Hi Aniie, have only just caught up with all your experiences, it sounds puzzling and challenging and a bit dispiriting. I guess the Camino is a little nutshell of the world, it gets more crowded and confusing and more commercialised and more into electronics etc...I found that the Le Puy route had become more touristy since 2009, when we walked it last year, but it was still lovely. In 2006 on the Frances I had a few issues with drunken pilgrims, snoring and being abusive and sexually inappropriate, it is how it is and the advice of getting out of sink with a group by slowing down or doing a side trip is great. There are many other wonderful pilgrim routes and like life in general there is no guarantee of a smooth ride...Love, Gitti

 

[ZenPeregrino]

This year is my first Camino so I offer to make no comparisons to years, decades, or centuries past on the Way.

I have found nothing but light, hope and openness among my fellow peregrinos. I also have been surprised by how _few_ people there are on the Camino Frances, after reading some complaints here. I leave around 9am, walk until 3 to 5, and have yet to see more than a half dozen fellow pilgrims in a day. On 3 or 4 days I have literally seen no other walkers, just a few passing cyclists. I have purposely started and ended in between the traditional stages, and (following a tip I learned here from Anniesantiago) I aim for the albergue with the fewest beds, on the contrarian (and so far correct) theory that most pilgrims assume they will already be full, thereby skipping them and ironically leaving them wide open. I have yet to stay anywhere full after the muni in Zubiri.

From a Zen perspective, the root of all suffering comes from our attachments to ideas about how things should be or remembered narratives of how things once were. The only Camino that exists in reality is the one that arises in this moment. Our path out of suffering lies in meeting that experience as it arises.

I have learned so much from the veteran peregrinos on this forum, and from no one more than the OP. But I can't help but observe moments of attachment in all of us from time to time to ideas about "our" Camino, "better" past Caminos, "more authentic pre-movie" Caminos, etc. However alluring and attractive, those Caminos do not exist. They are delusions that only trap us in more suffering.

The movie or the weather or the economy may be different than in the past, but the peregrino whose Camino runs through 'The Way' has no less authentic a Camino than those for whom a past Camino is remembered differently. To the contrary, the authenticity and warmth of a candle flame is never diminished when used to light a thousand more flames, or a million. In my view, the movie is just a modern version of the bridge built by Santo Domingo. If it brings more warmth and love to more people, it only makes the world a brighter and warmer place. Faith, hope and love are not subject to the second law of thermodynamics.

My own flame has been lighted anew on this year's Camino Frances. No one's candle on this forum has done more to fuel that flame than Anniesantiago. Your candle may be flickering at the moment - dont be afraid to relight it from some of the very same flames you helped light to begin with. That is the reason we each have candles in our hearts

Buen Camino.

 

[billbennettoz]

ZenPeregrino - Bravo!

Bill

 

[sergeantmajormammy]

[quote="biarritzdonThe few veteran pilgrims I met were wonderful but the day trippers, Spanish weekenders and the others who had come for a week to 10 day vacation were a totally different lot. [/quote]

We (5 adults, four children) went for a 'week to 10 day' [on our] vacation but I wouldn't like to think that we detracted in any way from anyone else's Camino - in fact, I would say that the presence of well-behaved, fit and friendly 1 X 11, 2 X 12, 1 X 13 year olds amused/entertained/interested /cheered many pilgrims we met.

I don't think it's the quantity of time spent on the Camino (nor the albergue v.hotel) that makes one a pilgrim , it's the quality of the time one spends and the attitude one has.

As I pulled off the 'quote-a-day' on the calendar, today's quote made me think of anniesantiago whose posts I had read earlier: 'Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle'. We all have our battles and our own demons and maybe Annie is the one who bear the brunt of the demon inside that anonymous poster - not pleasant for Annie but her reaction may give a a chink of solace to a very unhappy-in-him/herself person. Who knows?

 

[gaydearbeck]

We did our 1st walk last month and everyone was wonderful except one women who was negative. I would just hold back a day and start walking and maybe the next group of people you run across will be in good spirit. Remember never let anyone steal your joy or rent space in your head. Pray for peace and pray for those who need their eyes to be opened to what this walk is all about. Enjoy...and be blessed!

 

[Tia Valeria]

Yes, Sergeantmajormammy, I think it can be summed up perhaps as:-
Some folk (like yourselves) use their vacation to make a 10 day Camino; others use the Camino to make a 10 day vacation, with a totally different set of aims/expectations.

Hopefully those who are 'on vacation' catch a glimpse of 'pilgrimage' from the others. Sadly Annie seems to have been with a crowd who are not being helpful to themselves, or others, at a time when she needed encouragement herself.

Buen Camino Annie, hopefuly things will get better for you.

 

[efdoucette]

When I left for the Camino in Oct 2011 I was a new retiree and went for two reasons, the challenge and to experience the culture of Spain. I guess you could have called me a tourist. I didn't consider myself a pilgrim, never carried a shell, somewhat out of respect for the true pilgrim and because I didn't consider myself one of them.

I walked from St Jean PDP to Santiago over 32 days and had an incredible journey. It wasn't until I was home for a few months did I realize yep, I was on a pilgrimage. The Camino, and lessons learned from it, has become one of the most important things I have done for myself. I have been humbled, the people I've met, the introspection of my life, my values and beliefs. Truly humbled.
Since then I have returned to walk the Portuguese route with a Camino friend and will again walk a Camino with him in France this year.

Perhaps these people you are with will also get some humbling, sounds like they are good candidates. Having said all of that I'm sure it is not pleasant to be surrounded by negativity and hope you are able to find your piece of the Camino, again

 

[nreyn12]

DON'T GIVE UP! The true spirit of the Camino is still alive and well!!! We might have to look harder for it, but it's there.

Yes, things are changing, but all of us 'serial pilgrims' can still make a difference with those who behave in an 'un-pilgrim-like' manner.

Keep the faith; it's worth the effort. And if you are anywhere near Hospital de Orbigo, please come stay at Albergue Verde this week where I am hospitalera-ing. True Camino Spirit, alive and well! In just one day I have already met several pilgrims who are knee-deep in their Camino journeys. The real deal!

 

[gittiharre]

Zen peregrine thank you, nothing to add to what you have written...Gitti

 

[robhay60]

The one constant in our lives is change...Including ourselves! Why should the "Camino" be any different? We change and thus so does our perception.. Its only natural that we wish for things to stay the same. It familiar , safe , predictable , comforting... We feel we have a sense of control over what is happening. We can avoid that which is painful, difficult or uncomfortable.
I am planning my second "Camino" and i am already feeling challenged! I know it wont be the same as it was last year...I know i will have expectations, i know for sure that i will think that i am more in "control" of my "Camino Destiny".. However deep down i know that as ever "surprise and the unexpected" will be as ever constant companions...That is the "Camino" , the magic and mystery, that for me will always define it..
To think that we know it, to believe that we can control it, to hope that we might predict what the "Camino might teach us..... well think again
The "Camino" gives us exactly what we need and it does so at just the right moment...
Keep on walking Annie, another day , another beginning, Buen Camino :arrow: :arrow:

 

[newfydog]

"Just read your post on Ivar's forum. I think you are talking nonsense. Why? Because you are a tourigrino like many others and not a real pilgrim. You have taken the bus for a large part. You walk very slowly like a tourist. You have an attitude problem. Your blog is full of negativity. If you are so unhappy, just leave"
.

The author of that might have had a point if you were whining or something, but your original post was a list of behaviors you have had to witness, all of which are genuinely miserable. I don't think the problem is you.

This was in the New Yorker this week. It made me think of that comment:

 

[rafadamian]

Wow! Thank you for your words ZenPeregrino. I realize we shouldn't expect the Camino to change us. It will happen naturally, if we stay opened for the experience. I was thinking wrongly creating a world of expectations, and forgot that I am already on my Camino. The experience depends on how I live it. It sounds cliche, but is the very truth. Feeling like wakening.

 

[annakappa]

The courageous "anonymous", who posted on Annie's Blog is making comments that he/ she has no idea of what Annie has been going through over the last year. Annie is doing the Camino as a personal Pilgrimage! The last thing that she is, is a turigrino. She has not been bussing along the Camino as insinuated by this unfortunate comment ( something that I have done on my last Camino, for various reasons), but took transport to change routes from the VLdP to the Francés. And even if she had, what has this to do with "anonymous "? Come on. Get off your high horse and let us all know who you truly are! Anne
PS. This is the first time I have ever openly criticized a what I consider,offensive and ignorant comment!

 

[Bozzie]

I have to say I'm not surprised to hear this. With all the talks of the "best" albergues, the "boring" parts to skip, etc. it is bound to change and become an "all-inclusive" type of vacation. The camino needs time and effort. Sorry if I offend anyone but I do believe that walking 4 days on the Camino does not mean you've done the Camino, just like spending a weekend on the Appalachian Trail doesn't make you a thru-hiker. I hope the camino will be a little quieter by mid-September when I rejoin the CF at Puente La Reina...

Hola...I agree. It was lovely mid-Sept - mid-October in 2012. It was a profound experience...in a big way! The only time I became a bit irritated was when some of the people who started in Sarria were so loud...and very chatty. They hadn't gotten to the point of just "being" and letting the Camino lead them. It was more of a lot of friends, out for a hike...needing to talk loudly, laugh and think they were cool! Each time these people were around, I dropped back and let them pass and blessed them in a prayer as they went by. I knew that I could not do anything about the way someone else walks their camino. All I could do was to release the irritation and wait until they passed. Soon I felt connected to all that was transforming me...and it was awesome!!!
Buen Camino!
"Bozzie"
(Dee Anne)

 

[marigold]

I'm glad you wrote this post because that is exactly what I was thinking. I'm sorry to hear you are in a sad place. Remember though that the Camino will bring up in you what you need to experience (I think). So just be with it, and I'm sure it will change, or your attitude to it will change.
My experience this year was that peoples attitudes towards the Camino were different. Rather than being contemplative, spiritual, walking for the inner experience, a lot seemed to just be having a holiday, staying in hotels, using Wifi and tablets, catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc. Although thankfully I didn't meet anyone disrespectful or dishonest like you mentioned.
For me the whole point of walking the Camino is to make do with very little, to be quiet and with myself, and to challenge myself. What's the point of doing it in luxury and comfort? You don't learn anything or experience anything different.
The sheer numbers walking has increased again this year. Even in the mountains it was virtually impossible to find any silence as there was a constant stream of people. But when I hit Sarria it got so full of loud groups it was awful - crowds, litter, bars overwhelmed with the number of people to serve, rush for beds...
But then I walked to Finesterre, and the whole thing changed. Back to peace, and quiet and a different type of pelegrino.
I suppose it is a lesson in patience and non judging for me. There is always something new to learn each time. It is still magic. :wink:

 

[carriedavey]

Nice positive post! Lovely to read! An honest assessment of the Camino without surrendering to despair. I found your post most refreshing! Thank you Marigold!

 

[billmclaughlin]

Instead of assuming that someone looking for the "best" is looking for the Ritz, maybe we could assume that they want the best experience, a place where the setting and hosts help create a great evening of camaraderie. For me the best varies....the grand group of 30+ at Orisson or the way we sat at tables for 6 or 8 in the cave (pronounce that French style) at Cirauqui.

If you're craving a quiet night, nothing beats the cubicles for 2 at Azofra. Best? maybe, it depends on what you needed at the moment. But if you really wanted the very best isolation that night, the little hotel at the detour in Cañas was the very best of all.

 

[newfydog]

For me the whole point of walking the Camino is to make do with very little, to be quiet and with myself, and to challenge myself. What's the point of doing it in luxury and comfort? You don't learn anything or experience anything different.
:

Every person's Camino is their own. The style in which they do it is not easy to stereotype.

James Michener wrote of the Camino in the last chapter of "Iberia". He called it the finest journey in Spain, and one of the four or five best trips in the world. He drove most of it, had private tours of the Cathedrals and drank the finest Riojas.

The Le Puy route in France was full of 10 day tourists. Wonderful people, respectful, interested and positive.

What Annie writes about is more like the youth hostal scene in the 60's and 70's, the Europe on 5$ a day dirtbags. They don't appreciate the pilgrimage and their behavior reflects that.

Don't have the slightest idea what to do about them........

 

[nidarosa]

It will always be different. I walked from SJPdP to Santiago in Aug-Oct 2012, took my time, met people, lost them, found them again, walked with a friend from home who had to leave from Leon, walked the rest alone and took every day as it came. One of my most cherished Camino friends died less than 48 hours ago and I am gutted. She was one of the many incredibly open and caring and fun and insightful and positive people I met along the way, who made my walk so memorable. One day I couldn't be bothered removing my pack and boot, just leaned against a tree trying to get a small stone out, and 21- twenty-one - people stopped to ask if I was okay, offering medicines, trekking poles, food, drink, help removing the boot, help hobbling over to the curb, a shoulder to hold on to or cry on. I also met loud people, rude people, insensitive and self centred and clueless and drunk people, people who lied and bragged about their Camino prowess (why would you need to do that??). I had a quarrelling and borderline violent couple in my walking stream and fell back a day to avoid them and their very contagious negativity. I saw people deliberately not pay at cafés, sneak in albergue queues, knowingly bring bed bugs from place to place, be rude to locals, walk into the frame when I tried to take a pic (I swear that never happened until after Leon). I even have my own story about a man and a chair ...

What matters is that walk in the beautiful forest with a beautiful woman, a friend I have now lost. A friend I would never have met but for the Camino. Another of my Camino friends always used to say: "It is what it is." And you know what, she was right. You can't control what happens, only how you react to it. I am not saying that as a critisism towards anyone - it's so easy to misunderstand people on a forum when you can't see their faces - just that it is what it is. The litter, the rain, the human condition. It sounds like removing yourself from the negativity, either by adding your own positivity, falling back one day or speeding ahead, taking a detour, breaking the bad streak is all you can do.

Buen Camino, Annie, and all of you others out there. How I wish I were with you.
Linda

 

[billbennettoz]

Rather than being contemplative, spiritual, walking for the inner experience, a lot seemed to just be having a holiday, staying in hotels, using Wifi and tablets, catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc.

I have to humbly disagree with you. I don't think using wifi or a tablet makes you any less a pilgrim, nor does catching a bus or taxi. Nor does staying in a hotel. And some of the "tourigrinos" (which I regard as a pejorative term) become the most unlikely pilgrims as a result of their experiences on their Camino "vacation."

Bill

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

Greetings from Suffolk! I have just returned from walking the southern half of the Camino Portuguese, from Lisbon to Porto. When I say 'walking' that included bus, train, taxi, car, lift and, of course, walking.
I'm writing up my diary now, and doing the sums, but I think I walked just over 50% of the route. I consider myself a true pilgrim. I cannot physically walk more than 20 kms a day. After the second day I had blisters which needed hospital attention. I still walked every other day, using transport in between. I found the pain was quite severe, but after ten or twelve kilometres it didn't get worse.
I took just over 700 photos and have processed them all in dear old Picasa - they now need annotating.
I managed to attend services in both Lisbon and Porto cathedrals, plus various other small churches along the way. Prayers were said at every way-side cross for two friends with cancer, and one dear lady whose husband has just died.
A wonderful journey, staying in small hotels and albergues where I was the only person. And, yes, I consider myself a pilgrim!
Bom caminho!
Stephen.
http://www.calig.co.uk/camino_de_santiago.htm

 

[skilsaw]

if I can return next year, I will seriously give a thought to moving away from the Francés. Anne

Hello Annakappa,
My latest experience was walking the VdlP, Seville - Ourense - Santiago, in April and May of 2010.

I found the same great experience that I enjoyed on the Camino Frances in 2004.

This year I'm taking a friend on a wilderness hike that I first did in 1971, before it became a national park. It was the best experience of my teenage years. It will be different this year.
Structure, Organization, Rules, Reservation system... It will be different. We're hiking in September to miss the summer crowds.

Maybe some of the magic is gone. I'd go in the off-season... May or October. Let go of my expectations. Maybe the new lesson is to maintain your humanity, when all around you is selfishness.

I still wish everyone a
Buen Camino,
David, Victoria, Canada.

 

[Annie Little]

I am yet to do my first Camino ...Sept /Oct 2013.... BUT I do believe that all of my life has been a Camino..

I think everyone learns a lesson on the Camino... it may not be the lesson they are expecting.. actually it is probably NOT the lesson they are expecting.

I will walk my own walk... stay where I wish... do what I wish.... I will not harm others with thought, words, nor deeds.... We are all walking our OWN Camino... it is what it is .. AND it is OK..

Buen Camino fellow travellers

One thing I say to those who have done many Caminos..... no experience can be repeated a second time the same as the first... that goes for everything....... the first time for everything is always different.... it cannot be replicated.... I have learnt that lesson........ the second , third, fourth time always has a different lesson , different experience, different value.... EVERY experience is of value !

Annie

 

[David]

Annie, hi - so sorry that you have had to encounter these experiences - dropping back a couple of days and staying in 'intermediate' refugios might be improve things for you - I hope so. You were honest and open posting as you did but there will always be the type who respond in an accusatory way - stick your head above the parapet and someone will shoot at you ... ah well.

I thought it was just me ... I went to the Camino Frances earlier this year with my first aid equipment and noticed a difference .. I couldn't quite put my finger on it and assumed that it was me, that I was feeling different in some way. I met some wonderful pilgrims, bound them up, shared meals with them, and laughter - marvellous.
But .. well, a number of times I would arrive at a refugio and ask if anyone needed first aid and would just be waved away, as if I was a street trader with a handful of dodgy replica watches, and they would carry on talking to each other, leaving me just standing there - it was very rude, they didn't even speak to me, this happened quite a few times and rather put me off going to the refugios ... I couldn't work out why. Was it me? Was it them?
At a service in that beautiful church in Los Arcos a number of pilgrims came in and were walking around chatting and taking photographs, ignoring all those on the pews - I was astounded!

Later I sat in the square and just observed the pilgrims, and noticed how many had really expensive clothing, fully 'kitted out' - so many more than in other years ...
... I put this rudeness that I met down to my having a jaded outlook and that I had just missed all that before - but now, after your post, I don't think so ...

to be honest it has rather put me of going again ... I will, of course ... but .. well .. but .. perhaps our time has passed? :|

 

[Annie Little]

I have found this post and all the responders very enlightening.... all in different wayss..... David No-ones time has "passed" .... you may just be having a different experience than before....... as somoen else said ( (Zen I think he was) we are all " attached" to our own views ideas, etc...... that observation is enlightening in itself ....

Annie

 

[JabbaPapa]

Rather than being contemplative, spiritual, walking for the inner experience, a lot seemed to just be having a holiday, staying in hotels, using Wifi and tablets, catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc.

I have to humbly disagree with you. I don't think using wifi or a tablet makes you any less a pilgrim, nor does catching a bus or taxi. Nor does staying in a hotel. And some of the "tourigrinos" (which I regard as a pejorative term) become the most unlikely pilgrims as a result of their experiences on their Camino "vacation."

I agree mostly with you on this one, Bill.

1) Staying in Hotels -- it's been the traditional advice on the Camino since the Middle Ages that if you can afford to stay in hotels instead of the hostels/albergues, then that's what you should do ; the Camino is partly about meeting yourself, not some completely different person, nor is any deliberate self-deprivation of any use to help you get to Santiago. And those who can easily afford to stay elsewhere than at the albergues, and *don't* are just hogging beds from those who may be needier than they are themselves

2) walking for the inner experience // having a holiday -- Bill, preaching to the converted I know, each pilgrim is on his own Camino, for his own personal reasons. Not everyone is of any kind of mystical bent !!! Pilgrims on holiday ? Fine !!! Good for them, and I hope they love it !!! The Camino is there for them anyway, and as you yourself point out : "some of the "tourigrinos" [that you've met] become the most unlikely pilgrims as a result of their experiences on their Camino "vacation"."

3) using Wifi and tablets -- reminds me of a certain blogger from Australia ....

4) catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc. --- I can actually understand this, though as a "veteran" I think that it's a HUGE mistake that these people are making, rather than something that they should be blamed for as such. I faced this problem during the first few weeks out of Paris in 1994, in the form of frustration at not being able to reach my desired destination on some particular days, so 2-3 times I hitched some lifts -- and hated doing so. Right up until the first time I was forced to sleep outside (on some grass in a ruined mediaeval castle), and in the morning thought "hmmm, actually that wasn't so bad" ; then on the day when I simply COULD NOT go on, and took my first full day's rest instead. Yeah, the Camino can get tough, but we're tougher than any old Camino ; and whenever it seems like it's beaten us anyway, all we need to do is stop and wait things out. 24 hours of not-walking do WONDERS.

 

[NicoZ]

Greetings from Suffolk! I have just returned from walking the southern half of the Camino Portuguese, from Lisbon to Porto. When I say 'walking' that included bus, train, taxi, car, lift and, of course, walking.
I'm writing up my diary now, and doing the sums, but I think I walked just over 50% of the route. I consider myself a true pilgrim. I cannot physically walk more than 20 kms a day. After the second day I had blisters which needed hospital attention. I still walked every other day, using transport in between. I found the pain was quite severe, but after ten or twelve kilometres it didn't get worse.


A wonderful journey, staying in small hotels and albergues where I was the only person. And, yes, I consider myself a pilgrim!

If part of the definition of a pilgrim is the hardship and sacrifice I'd say you're MORE then an average pilgrim.

 

[Susannafromsweden]

4) catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc. --- I can actually understand this

I don't. The best way to deal with the boring bits, I think, is to walk much faster. In that way, after a while, one enters "runners high", (or walkers high in this case :wink: ). That's an intense feeling of happiness. So when thinking back, these boring bits on my walks may have been the happiest. It's nice to think of that its not necessary that something fantastic must happen, or that you must have nice people around you, you can just walk on a boring road and still be happy.
If the weather is bad, then it's almost even better, because of the contrast between the outer misery and the inner happiness.
Ok I think so anyway.

 

[reg2450]

I had the most wonderful Camino. Like many I hit the wall somewhere, and experienced my pilgrimage by walking through that, but I broke a lot of rules. apparently because my daughter and I caught a bus for 90kms, and therefore only walked 725 of the 830km from France, we were the "bus Catchers". Did anyone get that?
We walked 725kms.
I'm pretty sure God was impressed, particularly considering He never asked us to walk it in the first place....

 

[reg2450]

I also remember an evening of wonderful camaraderie - in Foncebaddon, over a beautiful shared meal and listening to songs by the fire. One man was fascinated by our pilgrimage... too fascinated, and was shooting questions at us, then he asked blatantly if we had walked the entire way, or if we had 'cheated'.

As someone who caught a bus, I found myself comforting many others who had, and felt like they had to 'hide' the fact. It's true... You are shot down in flames, but that's what happens on any spiritual journey - someone is always going to think you're a fraud. Georgia, God and myself know. We know. We did something PHENOMENAL. And met wonderful people, and are in awe of those of you who did it ALL without Help. I needed help, and I'm so very grateful help turned up.

 

[grayland]

Annie, hi - so sorry that you have had to encounter these experiences - dropping back a couple of days and staying in 'intermediate' refugios might be improve things for you - I hope so. You were honest and open posting as you did but there will always be the type who respond in an accusatory way - stick your head above the parapet and someone will shoot at you ... ah well.

I thought it was just me ... I went to the Camino Frances earlier this year with my first aid equipment and noticed a difference .. I couldn't quite put my finger on it and assumed that it was me, that I was feeling different in some way. I met some wonderful pilgrims, bound them up, shared meals with them, and laughter - marvellous.
But .. well, a number of times I would arrive at a refugio and ask if anyone needed first aid and would just be waved away, as if I was a street trader with a handful of dodgy replica watches, and they would carry on talking to each other, leaving me just standing there - it was very rude, they didn't even speak to me, this happened quite a few times and rather put me off going to the refugios ... I couldn't work out why bon talking to each other, leaving me just standing there - it was very rude, they didn't even speak to me, this happened quite a few times and rather put me off going to the refugios ... I couldn't work out why. Was it me? Was it them?
At a service in that beautiful church in Los Arcos a number of pilgrims came in and were walking around chatting and taking photographs, ignoring all those on the pews - I was astounded!

Later I sat in the square and just observed the pilgrims, and noticed how many had really expensive clothing, fully 'kitted out' - so many more than in other years ...
... I put this rudeness that I met down to my having a jaded outlook and that I had just missed all that before - but now, after your post, I don't think so ...

to be honest it has rather put me of going again ... I will, of course ... but .. well .. but .. perhaps our time has passed? :|

I just reread David's post on his Camino earlier this year. I remember that, before leaving on yet another Camino, David posted that he was going to set up shop again along the way to offer first aid to hurting Pilgrims. He had done this before and was looking forward to being of aid and also sharing with Pilgrims as they walked. A free blister and sore muscle tender suddenly popping up would seem a miracle if you actually needed one. David went to serve this great role.

His post captures the change that seem to have come over the CF.

Newfydog puts it well when he describes it as .... "What Annie writes about is more like the youth hostal scene in the 60's and 70's, the Europe on 5$ a day dirtbags. They don't appreciate the pilgrimage and their behavior reflects that. ..."

For those who suggest that some of us are just trying to recapture our first Camino...that is not it at all. We have been on many Caminos and they have all been different with different experiences as one would expect. What is different now is the attitude of the people walking. No self imposed opinion of what a Pilgrim should be....just a general feeling of a group of self serving people on a cheap group tour.

Not all fit this description, of course, but the atmosphere has changed dramatically.
Take another look at David's post and try to understand that this is a man who is offering to tend to any hurts that a fellow Pilgrim may have....his reception was much different than in the past.

 

[Anniesantiago]

grayland,
A 'thumbs up' button is still on my wish list for this forum.

Exactly...

 

[annelise]

Grayland, I wish I could have had a 'like button' to your post.

annelise

 

[Tia Valeria]

I had the most wonderful Camino. Like many I hit the wall somewhere, and experienced my pilgrimage by walking through that, but I broke a lot of rules. apparently because my daughter and I caught a bus for 90kms, and therefore only walked 725 of the 830km from France, we were the "bus Catchers". Did anyone get that?
We walked 725kms.
I'm pretty sure God was impressed, particularly considering He never asked us to walk it in the first place....

The only 'rule' is that the pilgrim walks the final 100kms into Santiago. If catching a bus or taking a taxi make that final 100kms possible then it is not up to others to make a judgement.
We advised 2 peregrinas setting out on the Primitivo to make sure that if they were behind time then take the bus/taxi before Lugo, not afterwards. In order to walk the Inglés we took a ride to our overnight accomodation in order to split an overlong section, then back next morning so as not to miss a section. 'Purists' might judge that as cheating, but the Pilgrims' Office gave me my Compostela as I had actually walked without missing the section.

Perhaps a judgemental attitude and failure to see others needs, physical,spiritual or emotional is part of what is different this year.....If so that is sad.

 

[JabbaPapa]

4) catching buses and taxis to miss out the 'boring bits', bad weather etc. --- I can actually understand this

I don't. The best way to deal with the boring bits, I think, is to walk much faster. In that way, after a while, one enters "runners high", (or walkers high in this case :wink: ). That's an intense feeling of happiness. So when thinking back, these boring bits on my walks may have been the happiest. It's nice to think of that its not necessary that something fantastic must happen, or that you must have nice people around you, you can just walk on a boring road and still be happy.
If the weather is bad, then it's almost even better, because of the contrast between the outer misery and the inner happiness.
Ok I think so anyway.

hmmmmm OK, think we're using a different definition of "boring" then

And when I said I "understand", that certainly does NOT mean "I agree" or "I recommend it" !!!

FWIW I know exactly what you're talking about 8)

 

[David]

I have found this post and all the responders very enlightening.... all in different wayss..... David No-ones time has "passed" .... you may just be having a different experience than before....... as somoen else said ( (Zen I think he was) we are all " attached" to our own views ideas, etc...... that observation is enlightening in itself ....

Annie

Annie - I was not mentioning attachment, either to the phenomenal world, nor to my ego mind's inner creations - I was merely commenting on what I had observed.

As to 'our time has passed' - Annie, almost everyone's 'time' has passed as people tend to live their present from the conditioning of the past. When the present time differs enough from the conception of what it 'should be' then our time has indeed passed and a new horizon needs be sought.

Don't you think? Buen Camino :wink:

 

[bsewall]

I walked from Sevilla to Santiago this Spring. It was the most profound experience of my life.

And, yes, for a portion of the walk I took a bus. And what I learned - the Camino exists in your heart, not on a map. And - each pilgrim's experience is unique, there is no value in judging how another pilgrim walks their way.

One last comment - this has got to be one of the most disturbing, thought provoking and inspiring threads I've read on this forum. Some truly excellent comments. Thanks to you all.

Bill

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I endorse the most disturbing concept. Obviously, to me, I learned something different from my Camino than they did, but chacun a son gout!

 

[Pieces]

I think understanding is highly overrated. It seems to me that there is an intense focus on the importance on understanding and being understood.

I honestly think that mostly it doesn't really matter, what matters is accepting, even if one would have done things totally differently themselves or doesn't begin to have a clue...

 

[jirit]

I walked from Sevilla to Santiago this Spring. It was the most profound experience of my life.

And, yes, for a portion of the walk I took a bus. And what I learned - the Camino exists in your heart, not on a map. And - each pilgrim's experience is unique, there is no value in judging how another pilgrim walks their way.

One last comment - this has got to be one of the most disturbing, thought provoking and inspiring threads I've read on this forum. Some truly excellent comments. Thanks to you all.

Bill

Well said

 

[Bytehoven]

Dear Annie,

Every year is different. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. In many ways, that also can be said about every day, or every hour. Think: less than six years ago, there was no iPhone, and no one expected a global recession...

We're sorry to hear about your experiences, and pray that everything will begin to turn in the good direction if it hasn't already.

I agree with jirit's earlier post:

Maybe it was the crazy weather, which at times seemed to wear some of us down. Or maybe it is the Spanish economy, which must be affecting Spaniards and foreigners alike.

Whatever the cause, it's temporary, as is everything in this life.

My wife and I had a wonderful Camino in October, 2012, but occasionally (about once a week), we met a person or two who were having a miserable time for a wide variety of reasons. That did not stop us from having what we've come to refer to as "the most meaningful experience of our lives" (and also the most fun we could ever remember, and on one night, the best meal of our lives!).

Mainly due to the weather and exhaustion from traveling, we took a cab from SJPP to Roncesvalles, but shortly thereafter, we met and walked with (for a couple days) two people 30 years younger than we are who had damaged themselves by rushing over the Pyrenees; they both had to give up their Camino by Puente la Reina, due to pain. This taught us early on how everyone does their own Camino.

Because our wedding anniversary came mid-Camino, we treated ourselves to a hotel, but at 4:30 AM the place caught fire and we were evacuated! I said to Laura, "I promised you an exciting evening for our anniversary..." What happens around you can certainly change your Camino, but it cannot make you have a bad Camino unless you allow it to; it all depends on how you react to what happens around you.

Two days out from Santiago, we walked for an afternoon with a young man who claimed that all of his friends were far behind him because they kept walking less and less each day because "they didn't want their Camino to ever end."

Since we've returned, we haven't missed an APOC meeting; we're fortunate to have a very active chapter right by us in Asheville. We still read practically nothing but books about the Camino, and some times, it seems like the only movies we watch are peoples' personal YouTube videos about their Caminos or the videos and photos we took of the Camino, ourselves. We plan to do it again in 2014 and we can hardly wait!

Perhaps because of your name and the fact my daughter played Molly in Annie the Musical for two years, I'm reminded of the first song in that show: "The sun will come out, tomorrow; bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow, there'll be sun..." And if it doesn't, well, there's a tomorrow after that; just believe. And remember, it takes 72 muscles to frown and only 14 to smile.

This too shall pass,

Chris and Laura

 

[Ccardoza]

I have been on the Camino for the past 12 days now. It is my first time so i cannot compare it to years past. But I am finding everyone to be very friendly and interested in each other. I have had to rest twice now due to a knee problem and sadly my new friends go ahead. But I always meet new people and each group is friendly and many people offer to help each other. I really hope it continues as it gets busier in July.

 

[flyswatty]

Last year I walked from Burgos to Santiago and returned this year to walk from SJPP to Burgos. For the most part, i walked the in part of May and June. The first 6 days of this trip were rain-filled. It takes more cognitive and physical energy to keep yourself safe while walking in conditions made more challenging by the weather. I think this was hard on some people. I know that some days i felt down right tired from all if the rain, being wet and muddy. That being said, it is a part of the experience and something to embrace.

Also, it did feel busier to me from last year and some days it felt like people were getting out of the albergues in the morning in a race to the next place. I didn't change what I did from last year and I always found a place. I tried not to worry about this.

One if the things I do feel is that the Camino might becoming the cool thing to do for American college students. There seemed to be more of them which is fine and individually great, but as groups of them coming together I sometimes found this was irritating. I saw such groups and heard complaints about various things, lack of comfort, hot water, close sleeping quarters and at times thought 'why are you here?' On a good note, one day i made the decision to walk a lot further ahead just so i could get into a different group of pilgrims and was rewarded with some great things. Just my own observations. Annie - I'm sorry you had some difficult experiences. I trust that great experiences are coming to you.

 

[billbennettoz]

I have to humbly disagree with you. I don't think using wifi or a tablet makes you any less a pilgrim, nor does catching a bus or taxi. Nor does staying in a hotel. And some of the "tourigrinos" (which I regard as a pejorative term) become the most unlikely pilgrims as a result of their experiences on their Camino "vacation."

JabbaPapa wrote:

I agree mostly with you on this one, Bill.

haha - JB - then what DON'T you agree with??

:roll:

Bill

 

[JabbaPapa]

haha - JB - then what DON'T you agree with??

hmmmmm, to tread carefully on the eggshells that you have been kind enough to spread before my feet, Bill, there's a virtue in the "pure" pilgrim experience with zero compromises that is lost every time that you accept a compromise -- with the usual caveats for medical or other serious difficulties or just the "trademarked" Camino Surprises that can sometimes force such compromises upon people's personal Way.

 

[billbennettoz]

haha - JB - then what DON'T you agree with??

hmmmmm, to tread carefully on the eggshells that you have been kind enough to spread before my feet, Bill, there's a virtue in the "pure" pilgrim experience with zero compromises that is lost every time that you accept a compromise -- with the usual caveats for medical or other serious difficulties or just the "trademarked" Camino Surprises that can sometimes force such compromises upon people's personal Way.

ha ha - as with most of your posts JabbaPapa, I am going to have to mull over that for a couple of days before I reply. You have done the "pure" pilgrimage, which I admire and respect.

Bill

 

[camino07]

I have just returned from my 6th Camino. I started with the Aragones which I loved and ended with the Sanabres which I also loved but in between walked from Puente la Reina to Burgos before catching a bus to Zamora. There were many pilgrims on the Frances but I luckily didn't come across any big problems or rude people and no stealing . What put me off the Francis was that it seemed to have been paved over,more touristy and I felt that the locals were sick of pilgrims . Of course the weather was ghastly and I couldn't wait to get finished and down to Zamora onto a quieter Camino Sanabres. I took a bus from Belorado to Burgos which I would have felt guilty about in previous years.Definitely the weather had a lot to do with my feelings.
If anyone wants to experience a great Camino try the Sanabres and of all the most beautiful walk was the one from Somport to Jaca on the Aragones. for an Aussie who misses mountains and hadn't seen snow for 20 years it was awe inspiring.
Heather

 

[giorgio]

Getting close to 70 years of age it's very easy to get trapped into the ' it's not like it was...' way of thinking.
But then, after many Caminos , i am more and more convinced that the only thing that really makes the difference from one camino to the other ones , it's just yourself...and no camino is better or worse than others,just different....
Wether someone of your encounters is a pilgrim or a tourigrino, if you stay in hotel or albergues,if you taxi or bus some bits, well, the only thing that really matters is to understand why this happens, and this brings even more meaning and depth to your journey.
Am very thankful for all encounters and situation the Camino 's brought and that's why i hope i'll be able to to keep going back again, and again, and again....
Giorgio

 

[Deleted member 3000]

And the only thing you can control is your attitude!

Are we forgetting Pilgrim Rule #4 : A Pilgrim does not whine?

 

[colinPeter]

Am very thankful for all encounters and situation the Camino 's brought and that's why i hope i'll be able to to keep going back again, and again, and again....
Giorgio

A good perspective, nicely said.
Buen Camino(s)
Colin

 

[Thornley]

I have ask St. Jimmy a hundred times when worn out [ actually there are other words ]was this his way.
I got a smile
He was feted on , got the best rooms in the home , waited on at dinner and then a member of the family would surely have helped him each morning the next day
So i stopped judging many years ago but i do think a " rite of passage " as Flyswatty wrote applying to collage kids might also apply to many, many Mic's here in Australia.
The part that i find disturbing amongst them is they are all trying to FIT it in whilst holidaying in europe and only from Sarria. :cry:
You mention Finisterre or Muxia and they think you are on another planet :cry:

What would the drop off figures be if no credentials were handed out ????

I think when everyone gets home it dawns on them the little things needed to improve their life.
If not then .. :|

 

[Sue M]

Having walked from SJPdP to Burgos last autumn the VERY PURE way, I'm off on Thursday to walk from Leon to Santiago the VERY UNPURE way, for logistical and wimpish reasons. Would not have chosen this but sure I'll appreciate a room to myself, baggage transfer and leaving out the industrial estate bits! It was either this way or not doing it at all, but I regret missing the Meseta. It'll be interesting to compare the two experiences, especially as I'm walking with the Ramblers so I guess the others will be new to the whole thing and probably won't see themselves as pilgrims. Historically I think people went on pilgrimage in groups for safety and I wish it were easy to find like-minded people to travel and walk with. I found four others last yeara and haven't got the nerve to aet out from England entirely alone. I'm nearly 68 and wish I had started years ago.

 

[ZenPeregrino]

Regarding college students, I think the speculation about numbers may be true as I have met a lot on CF so far who are walking the Camino after trekking in Nepal, volunteering in Africa, etc. Not just Americans but also Aussies, Kiwis, Scandanavians, Eastern Europeans (mostly Slavs), Germans, Mexicanos and Argentines. At least that is the demographic distribution of my unscientific sample size.

I have had the unexpected pleasure to walk daily with a lot of them (maybe a dozen or so, mas o menos), both solo and in groups, starting in SJPdP. The experience has been uniformly positive. They bring a "beginner's mind" that many of us are seeking to reclaim. And I have yet to see or hear of a Señor Frog's de la Caldeza that would evoke my own "rites of passage" at their age.

Granted - almost all of them set out to walk the Camino not as a spiritual journey but in pursuit of another "peak" adventure (using a definition of "peak" as toughest/longest/coolest/etc., in that way that most of us defined "peak" in our youth). Most of them began walking too far, too fast - and about a third of them had fairly serious injuries as a result, causing them to have to wait a couple of days somewhere while many of their cohort moved on. On doctor's orders, a couple of them eventually had to quit altogether, which itself was a wake-up call to the friends left behind. In almost all cases, they've already been taught heretofore-unknown lessons by and about their bodies.

Somewhere between Pamplona and Burgos I have listened and observed as the many lessons of the Way have begun to dawn on these young people in their own unique ways. As a typical example, one young woman had set out with ironclad determination to walk every step in 28 days without a single rest day. She wanted to (my words, not hers) "win" the Camino. (How many of us are completely clear of such residue in our egos when on a tough morning we are overtaken and passed over and over again?)

Two days ago she walked with a bunch of us "older" folks and stopped unexpectedly early (pre-siesta) with us. At 9am the next morning as I was packing to leave she walked by, still not ready to go. In a bit of shock I asked why she was still there. She said something to the effect of "I suddenly realized that all my life I've been racing to accomplish arbitrary goals structured according to frameworks designed by other people. I would thrive on leaving others behind me. Yesterday it dawned on me that the most rewarding thing so far on my Camino has come from listening to the stories of people who are older than me so maybe I can avoid their mistakes, or at least notice them earlier when I begin to make similar ones. I want to be able to build my own personal framework for how to live my life rather than accept the one laid out for me by anyone else. And I realized that to do that, I need to stay with other people, not leave them behind."

I had to fight the instinct to fall to the floor and immediately prostrate myself before this young bodhisattva, in awe at how much of the pain in my life might have been reduced had I had even a small exposure to these ideas at her age. She is 20.

Someone characterized this thread as, among other things, one of the most "disturbing.". I couldn't agree more. Webster's defines "to disturb" as (lightly paraphrased) "to interfere with; to alter the arrangement or position of; to upset the existing order; to destroy tranquility and composure; to cause inconvenience..." I would speculate that if we are honest, most of us felt called to the Way based on a sense that we needed to be disturbed in some way. "Disturb" seems to me to be the principal pedagogy of the Camino de Santiago.

Whether they purposely sought it or not, if the Camino is now "disturbing" our society's future leaders at a younger-than-previously-typical age, that may turn out to be its most important purpose. Given the typical "rites of passage" in my earlier days, and how much of our world's future hangs in the balance with this upcoming generation, I cannot imagine a more positive, exciting, and urgently-needed development than for the Way to become a "new" type of rite of passage. If the price of such an evolution in the Way is the passing of a certain more obscure, less-traveled, Henry-David-Thoreau-inspired solitude, I will gladly pay it.

My $0.02; YMMV. Buen Camino.

 

[Thornley]

Great piece Zen,

In 07 we walked with a young kid who was attending Harvard.
He was a beautiful lad .
He was having a gap year or whatever and had decided when walking;

He would return and do a masters in English Literature ,
The reason .....he would become a speech writer.
It was in the square in Belorado he made up his mind after a wonderful discussion with an old german teacher.

Would all young ones benefit from a year before uni or a year after before work on the camino.
Have asked this many times ....answer 100%...yes

 

[William Marques]

Another cracking post Zen.

To add some dry statistics the 15-30 year olds have always been one of the largest cohorts on the Camino since my numbers begin in 1989. It is only since 2003 that the 30+ numbers have been growing so do not be surprised if you meet plenty of students and school children.

 

[David]

" When you are a truly happy Christian, you are also a Buddhist and vice versa "

Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh from the book - Living Buddha, Living Christ

There is only one awakedness

Buen Camino :wink:

 

[ZenPeregrino]

David, that is beautiful. One light, viewed through many windows. Buen Camino.

 

[JabbaPapa]

" When you are a truly happy Christian, you are also a Buddhist and vice versa "

Don't the Rules forbid discussing religion like this ? (as in : "1) Posts about your personal political or religious beliefs are not allowed." ?) (Or shall I post a Catholic critique of the above statement ?)

 

[William Marques]

Please guys do not get the mood of the Camino that Annie was talking about and let this thread turn into a religious slanging match.

Be nice to each other.

 

[David]

" When you are a truly happy Christian, you are also a Buddhist and vice versa "

Don't the Rules forbid discussing religion like this ? (as in : "1) Posts about your personal political or religious beliefs are not allowed." ?) (Or shall I post a Catholic critique of the above statement ?)

well, this brings the tone down a little doesn't it, a bit like being on Annies' Camino. JabbaPapa, you could have just sent me a pm you know.
However, rule 1. if you have another look at my post you may realise that I didn't make a personal pronouncement about my beliefs, what I did was to quote someone - (that is what quotation marks are for :wink: )
If you disagree for some reason with his statement please write to Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh and discuss your personal problems about his understanding directly with him, rather than me, or on this public forum. You can contact him via his main monastery, in France - http://www.plumvillage.org/

Buen Camino :wink:

 

[SanFranLinda]

I have yet to walk the way. For me, it is a dream that I have yet to have the luxury of fulfilling. so, I can't comment from any experience. However, some of the comments make me sad, also. I just wanted to share this...

 

[ZenPeregrino]

In the words of Sufi Muslim poet Rumi:

"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field.

I'll meet you there.

When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase each other
doesn't make any sense."

Buen Camino.

 

[Phillypilgrim]

As a mother of an American college student, I would be thrilled if my son wanted to walk The Way as a rite of passage. And if I run into any American college students while I walk, I will most probably ask them where they go to school!
So yeah, I don't get it.

 

[Bytehoven]

As a mother of an American college student, I would be thrilled if my son wanted to walk The Way as a rite of passage. And if I run into any American college students while I walk, I will most probably ask them where they go to school!
So yeah, I don't get it.

I feel exactly the same, as the father of two American college students.

--Chris