It's (not really) your Camino

[peregrina2000]

I have been doing some recent searching through the archives to find information on bag transport companies for a friend, and I have repeatedly come across a phrase that to me is like fingernails going over a chalkboard. And so, at the risk of sounding preachy and like a know-it-all, I would like to say that I think it would be great if we could relegate the "it's your Camino" mantra to the ash-heap of history and banish it from our vocabulary.

In my opinion, this feel good statement paints an inaccurate picture of the Camino that lies ahead for forum members. It's not YOUR Camino, it's THE Camino, a pilgrim path that has been followed by millions and millions of people over the ages. Each one of us who embarks on a Camino is but a tiny part of it. We do not own it, we are visitors on it, we have a responsibility to it. I know there is currently a huge debate about who gets to call the shots on it, but I think it’s pretty clear that we forum members do not get to call the shots.

I think the "it's your Camino" people were originally motivated by a caring inclusiveness, trying to push back against the purists, each of whom used a different standard to evaluate who is and who is not a "real pilgrim." But there is a huge difference between being arrogant and judgmental about who is walking the Camino in the "proper" way, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, adopting the totally standardless and self-indulgent idea that you can walk "your Camino" any old way you want, and that no one has any right to criticize, to call you out, or to be upset when they see you are acting in a sacrilegious, inappropriate or demeaning way. Wrapping yourself up in a bubble of "it's my camino" does nothing to further the cause of creating respect and even awe for the sacredness of these routes, it just creates a mantle of entitlement. I am not a religious person, but I have had enough magical camino experiences to know that there is something here that is transcendent, something that makes it almost sacrilegious for me to claim any ownership of the Camino. We may not have any control over how others walk the Camino, but I think we do a disservice to the Camino by pushing a self-centered approach here on the forum, when really we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, that was not my intent -- but this has been bubbling around inside me for a couple of years now and I thought it was time to get it off my chest. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Bravo!

 

[Deleted member 36903]

You do not know how much it means to me to have someone post these words on the forum; that these are the observation of one of our most respected forum members just lends them the added authority they merit. Thank you Laurie.

 

[Robo]

Well Put!

I felt very 'connected' to the history and meaning of the Camino. Maybe why I felt a bit put off or disappointed at times by those who treated it more like just a cheap holiday, and lacked the 'respect' or realisation of quite where they were.....

Other thoughts..........You got me thinking in the shower. Always a great place to think....

Perhaps there is a difference in how we approach the Inner journey v the Outer Journey.

I agree 100% with your sentiments, in the context of the Inner Journey.

But maybe, IMHO, all the talk of "it's your camino" is more in relation to the Outer or Physical Journey.

By that I mean that if you are walking with the right intention and spirit in your heart, indeed you are being respectful of the place and it's history.

The 'it's your Camino' approach, is probably more relevant to the physical journey isn't it? Are you in some way disrespecting the Camino if you walk with a huge pack, no pack, stay in Albergues, Hotels, walk backwards in a Kilt.....?

Just a thought........

But as for your original post. 100% agree!

 

[RobertS26]

I would like to say that I think it would be great if we could relegate the "it's your Camino" mantra to the ash-heap of history and banish it from our vocabulary. I hope I haven't offended anyone

This just might be the best post I have ever read on this forum. Thank you for saying it. And for saying it so well.

 

[trecile]

I am new to the Camino community, but to me, the phrase is short hand for "your Camino experience", and I see nothing wrong with using it.

"and that no one has any right to criticize, to call you out, or to be upset when they see you are acting in a sacrilegious, inappropriate or demeaning way."

No one should be behaving in an inappropriate or demeaning way anywhere, not just on the Camino.

 

[KinkyOne]

I would write something on the topic but it is so complex that my English language skills doesn't allow me that.
Therefore I bow my head, Laurie!

 

[RumAndChupacabras]

"Perspective has a Latin root meaning "look through" or "perceive," and all the meanings of perspective have something to do with looking. If you observe the world from a dog's perspective, you see through the dog's eyes. In drawing, perspective gives your drawing the appearance of depth or distance..."
I just got that from some internet definition.

Everything in each of our lives (how we act and react) is taken in through our very different experiences, senses, mindsets and emotions. What has shaped each person on this Forum, or who has ever lived, takes on the color/flavor/character of what that person has gone through in life...'individual' perspective. I don't have a clue what any other individual is really, truly thinking, sensing, experiencing or feeling. Therefore, I chose to live by this motto...'don't assume anything except, to assume that I may have misunderstood'.

@peregrina2000, I have no idea what your perspective is, yet I respect it as I would anyone else's in this Forum and in life. I'm happy for you, that you have been able to get this off your chest because it's much healthier to release the harboring of negative feelings.

 

[Robo]

You do not know how much it means to me to have someone post these words on the forum; that these are the observation of one of our most respected forum members just lends them the added authority they merit. Thank you Laurie.

A very wise man, a few years ago, whilst mentoring me through a challenging period in my life, related some interesting thoughts.
It was all about how we communicate.


His view, was that on reaching the age of 60, in traditional cultures, we become an 'elder'.
And an Elder, had a role and a duty within their tribe.
And this was to teach the younger members of the tribe.
Often this teaching would be through stories and song.
It would hand down the history of the tribe and it's values.
And the Elders were the perfect people to do this. After all, they had the life experience. and had seen it all before. And they generally had the time....

Forget the age comment .........
but thank you for fulfilling your role as an Elder of the Tribe so well, as you always do ....

 

[domigee]

Well spoken Laurie

 

[Jacobus]

" we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is."

I think this should be the first commandment of the forum!

 

[Deleted member 34316]

I would like to illustrate the issue addressed by peregrina2000 with a picture I took on the Camino del Norte some time ago.

It's their Camino.

You are welcome to leave your comment on the picture page (link)

 

[november_moon]

I am new to the Camino community, but to me, the phrase is short hand for "your Camino experience", and I see nothing wrong with using it.

"and that no one has any right to criticize, to call you out, or to be upset when they see you are acting in a sacrilegious, inappropriate or demeaning way."

No one should be behaving in an inappropriate or demeaning way anywhere, not just on the Camino.

I agree completely. I don't see anything wrong with telling people that it is their Camino and walk it how they choose. That has nothing to do with people who act like entitled jerks - those people probably aren't having discussions about how to walk the Camino because they probably don't care what anybody thinks they are "supposed" to do. Of course we could all pull out examples of cruddy behavior that we encountered on the Camino and say that THIS is an illustration of the "Its your Camino" phenomenon. But really, bad behavior is part of the human condition and you will find it pretty much everywhere. I found a heck of a lot less of it on the Camino than in daily life. It was wonderful. Most people who decide to spend their precious free time walking across Spain are really decent people.

Does anybody really think that the woman in the picture above decided to walk in her bikini bottoms because someone told her it was her Camino? That she got some sense of entitlement because she read on a forum that she could walk anyway she felt like and it was ok? None of us knows why she was walking in her bikini bottoms. Maybe she is clueless about social norms. Maybe she thought it was sexy. Maybe its her time of the month and she had a major flood earlier in the day and stained her pants and didn't have another option. We don't know.

 

[Lmsundaze]

I hesitate to comment because I haven't walked the Camino yet (8 days to go!) but I have to say I don't understand what this controversy is about. I'm guessing everyone has different reasons for walking the Camino. I am trying to come to terms with the loss of my husband and carrying some of his ashes with me. I don't suppose most others are doing this. I am Catholic, I plan to go to Mass every opportunity, some may not. I want and need private accommodations most of the time, others don't, this is personal with me. I am going for 10 weeks, I am old and slow with some physical issues, others go faster. So, to me, my Camino is what I make it for myself. Really our whole lives are our "camino" the pilgrim way we walk from our first day to our last. We really do walk it ourself. I'm sure the OP means something I don't understand with her post, but to me it feels like the whole thing is very personal.

 

[domigee]

Does anybody really think that the woman in the picture above decided to walk in her bikini bottoms because someone told her it was her Camino? That she got some sense of entitlement because she read on a forum that she could walk anyway she felt like and it was ok? None of us knows why she was walking in her bikini bottoms. Maybe she is clueless about social norms. Maybe she thought it was sexy. Maybe its her time of the month and she had a major flood earlier in the day and stained her pants and didn't have another option. We don't know.

Totally unsuitable attire, for whatever reason. A bikini bottom is for the beach, I think it applies to any country? (Breathlessly awaiting to be contradicted )

 

[Mark Lee]

Totally unsuitable attire, for whatever reason. A bikini bottom is for the beach, I think it applies to any country? (Breathlessly awaiting to be contradicted )

I don't think it's a bikini bottom. I see young ladies in the park where I run wearing only slightly more covering shorts when they are running. Shorts like that and midriff workout/running tops. Common enough that I don't even give them a second look.
Anyway, I don't really see it as unsuitable for walking the Camino in hot weather. I saw young male pilgrims going shirtless. I figure they are enjoying youth and their fit bodies while they can.

 

[trecile]

Totally unsuitable attire, for whatever reason. A bikini bottom is for the beach, I think it applies to any country? (Breathlessly awaiting to be contradicted )

But we don't know what transpired before the picture was taken. There may have been a reason for the bikini bottom. I'm not a Christian, but I do know what the Bible says about judging. (I'm not saying that I'm above it myself, but I think that it's something to strive for)

 

[Mark Lee]

I am new to the Camino community, but to me, the phrase is short hand for "your Camino experience", and I see nothing wrong with using it.

"and that no one has any right to criticize, to call you out, or to be upset when they see you are acting in a sacrilegious, inappropriate or demeaning way."

No one should be behaving in an inappropriate or demeaning way anywhere, not just on the Camino.

That is exactly what the phrase is intended to be and the way I always interpreted it. I figured that's the way everybody interpreted it. Never saw it as some type of oppressive forcing of pilgrims to walk the Camino the way other want it to be walked. Not sure how the OP got that impression whilst up on her pulpit.
So yeah, it is my Camino experience and I will walk MY CAMINO any damned way I want to.
It's YOUR CAMINO. Make the most of it.

 

[domigee]

I hesitate to comment because I haven't walked the Camino yet (8 days to go!) but I have to say I don't understand what this controversy is about. I'm guessing everyone has different reasons for walking the Camino. I am trying to come to terms with the loss of my husband and carrying some of his ashes with me. I don't suppose most others are doing this. I am Catholic, I plan to go to Mass every opportunity, some may not. I want and need private accommodations most of the time, others don't, this is personal with me. I am going for 10 weeks, I am old and slow with some physical issues, others go faster. So, to me, my Camino is what I make it for myself. Really our whole lives are our "camino" the pilgrim way we walk from our first day to our last. We really do walk it ourself. I'm sure the OP means something I don't understand with her post, but to me it feels like the whole thing is very personal.

Imsundaze, first of all I am so sorry for your loss. As a Catholic too, I shall pray that you find solace and peace on the Camino.

I understood the OP's post as saying the words 'it's your/my camino' can mean 'anything goes'. And I won't attempt a long explanation as I am not too good at it but basically, I agree with her. No, NOT anything goes, it's a pilgrimage after all and it should be respected. And if it is, pilgrims who like you for example walk it after such a poignant loss can do it to find peace and serenity.

There, I did say I was no good at explaining!

Buen camino to all.

 

[Kitsambler]

Being a both/and rather than an either/or sort of girl, I wade in here. It is my internal Camino experience. I alone am responsible for it, just as I am individually responsible for my relationship with the Divine. And that experience is in the context of a communal physical setting and experience, which is a shared responsibility. We pilgrims owe each other mutual respect as individuals, and we owe respect to the physical setting and circumstances of the Camino route.

 

[domigee]

But we don't know what transpired before the picture was taken. There may have been a reason for the bikini bottom. I'm not a Christian, but I do know what the Bible says about judging. (I'm not saying that I'm above it myself, but I think that it's something to strive for)

I don't see it as anything to do with being Christian or not, we have social 'rules' we abide with, in our surroundings. I don't do my shopping in a swimsuit for example because it is not 'correct'. You may disagree with that.

 

[domigee]

I don't think it's a bikini bottom. I see young ladies in the park where I run wearing only slightly more covering shorts when they are running. Shorts like that and midriff workout/running tops. Common enough that I don't even give them a second look.
Anyway, I don't really see it as unsuitable for walking the Camino in hot weather. I saw young male pilgrims going shirtless. I figure they are enjoying youth and their fit bodies while they can.

Hadn't seen your post. All I can say is we can agree ... to disagree

 

[Icacos]

I would like to illustrate the issue addressed by peregrina2000 with a picture I took on the Camino del Norte some time ago.

It's their Camino.

You are welcome to leave your comment on the picture page (link)

The link indicates that they are "pilgrims on the way from Ribadesella to La Isla," but are you sure they are pilgrims heading to Santiago? They may have been walking on the Camino route, but they look to me like kids walking from one camp ground to another. .........The poles give me cause to pause though. Maybe they were there just to ward off dogs.

 

[trecile]

I don't see it as anything to do with being Christian or not, we have social 'rules' we abide with, in our surroundings. I don't do my shopping in a swimsuit for example because it is not 'correct'. You may disagree with that.

I do agree somewhat, but what I'm saying is that we have been invited to judge a couple that we do not know based on a picture of which we do not know the circumstances.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I have been doing some recent searching through the archives to find information on bag transport companies for a friend, and I have repeatedly come across a phrase that to me is like fingernails going over a chalkboard. And so, at the risk of sounding preachy and like a know-it-all, I would like to say that I think it would be great if we could relegate the "it's your Camino" mantra to the ash-heap of history and banish it from our vocabulary.

In my opinion, this feel good statement paints an inaccurate picture of the Camino that lies ahead for forum members. It's not YOUR Camino, it's THE Camino, a pilgrim path that has been followed by millions and millions of people over the ages. Each one of us who embarks on a Camino is but a tiny part of it. We do not own it, we are visitors on it, we have a responsibility to it. I know there is currently a huge debate about who gets to call the shots on it, but I think it’s pretty clear that we forum members do not get to call the shots.

I think the "it's your Camino" people were originally motivated by a caring inclusiveness, trying to push back against the purists, each of whom used a different standard to evaluate who is and who is not a "real pilgrim." But there is a huge difference between being arrogant and judgmental about who is walking the Camino in the "proper" way, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, adopting the totally standardless and self-indulgent idea that you can walk "your Camino" any old way you want, and that no one has any right to criticize, to call you out, or to be upset when they see you are acting in a sacrilegious, inappropriate or demeaning way. Wrapping yourself up in a bubble of "it's my camino" does nothing to further the cause of creating respect and even awe for the sacredness of these routes, it just creates a mantle of entitlement. I am not a religious person, but I have had enough magical camino experiences to know that there is something here that is transcendent, something that makes it almost sacrilegious for me to claim any ownership of the Camino. We may not have any control over how others walk the Camino, but I think we do a disservice to the Camino by pushing a self-centered approach here on the forum, when really we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, that was not my intent -- but this has been bubbling around inside me for a couple of years now and I thought it was time to get it off my chest. Buen camino, Laurie

No offense given no offense taken Laurie. You have provided a lot of food for thought. I'm guilty of using the term "my camino" but used the term to tell my friends about the camino and my experiences. I have walked 2 prior and different caminos and I will set off for my third (pause) Journey in 5 days. I will hereafter refer to the caminos by their name, or the way, or as my journey on the camino. Buen Camino

Happy Trails

 

[grayland]

It is not the simple " my Camino" or "your Camino" that sets my teeth on edge so much.

It is the confrontational shouted "MY Camino" and "YOUR Camino" that greatly annoys me.
Why is it necessary to respond in all caps and bold when using this phrase?
Does that make your opinion a fact? Keep in mind that it really is just your opinion and that others may disagree.

 

[wayfarer]

I have often used the term "its your Camino" when trying to assure new members that its ok have their pack carried if they don't feel able to do it themselves or if they have to catch a bus or taxi for reasons of time or health, it is not to give them a green light to behave any way they wish but more to tell them to ignore the "real pilgrims" who would tell them that they have to walk every step of the way, that if they are in pain its even better, that they have to stay in public albergues etc. When I walked the Camino I walked every step and carried a 10 kilo + pack, I stayed in mixed accommodation but I don't think everyone else should have to walk the Camino my way.
For me it is "your Camino" many can walk it with you but no one can walk it for you.

 

[NualaOC]

Great thread Laurie! That phrase irks me too at times. I suppose it all depends on context. Each pilgrim is responsible for their own journey/pilgrimage, but we're part of the 'whole' and IMO should be humbled by it.

Now, don't get me started on the different uses of the phrase 'the Camino provides' ............

 

[AJ]

'the Camino provides' ............

Superstitious nonsense: it is Mushkil Gusha who provides!!

 

[koilife]

If we give a nod to good pagan Aristotle . . . let's consider this from his definition of a virtue, which was a mean between an excess and a deficit. On one extreme we have an attitude of excessive individualism (I'll walk any darn way I want to without regard for its effects on anyone else because it's my Camino and no one is to tell me otherwise). On the opposite extreme we have an attitude devoid of individualism (There are specific and proper ways and reasons to walk the camino and anyone who doesn't meet these isn't really a true pilgrim and shouldn't walk). In the middle is a two-fold attitude of respect for those with differences and of sensitivity to the impact we might have on others.

One doesn't have to spend very long on the forum to see hints of both extremes, although most of us probably tend to operate in a range that, while left or right of center, is still within a middle ground. But, sooner or later, some of us latch onto some jugular issue where we end up outside that middle ground and camp out in an extreme. Or perhaps it's only me that's done that . . .

If I read Laurie's OP correctly, she is recoiling against the excessive individualism that disregards the impact on others, and she recognized that sometimes that excess emerges in reaction to an opposite extremism of propriety and purity of what it means to be a pilgrim.

While it is true that the camino is an individual journey (interiorly and exteriorly), it occurs in a communal context and there must be some level of respect given for the community. "It's my camino" doesn't justify:

• Leaving toilet paper or other litter laying around the landscape (including old boots on route markers)
• Walking around admiring statues and talking and snapping pictures in a church while the Mass is being celebrated
• Staying up until 1 AM in the commons playing loud drinking games
• Not donating at a donativo albergue but spending extra on food and wine eating out
• Stripping down to bra and panties to change three feet away from my 15 year old son (or me for that matter)
• Disregarding the advice of the SJPdP pilgrim's office when they recommend against taking the Route Napoleon
• Expecting rural Spain to cater to English-only speakers or <insert any other language of choice>
• Blatantly and publically disregarding the rules of the Catholic church regarding the Eucharist
• Bicyclists who shoots past a walker without warning at a high rate of speed
• A walker who deliberately obstructs the path of a bicyclist
• and so on and so forth

An equally long list could be compiled for the deficit of individualism (extreme conformism), but as I don't believe that was the intent of Laurie's OP, I won't belabor the point.

 

[RobertS26]

While it is true that the camino is an individual journey (interiorly and exteriorly), it occurs in a communal context and there must be some level of respect given for the community. "It's my camino" doesn't justify:

• Leaving toilet paper or other litter laying around the landscape (including old boots on route markers)
• Walking around admiring statues and talking and snapping pictures in a church while the Mass is being celebrated
• Staying up until 1 AM in the commons playing loud drinking games
• Not donating at a donativo albergue but spending extra on food and wine eating out
• Stripping down to bra and panties to change three feet away from my 15 year old son (or me for that matter)
• Disregarding the advice of the SJPdP pilgrim's office when they recommend against taking the Route Napoleon
• Expecting rural Spain to cater to English-only speakers or <insert any other language of choice>
• Blatantly and publically disregarding the rules of the Catholic church regarding the Eucharist
• Bicyclists who shoots past a walker without warning at a high rate of speed
• A walker who deliberately obstructs the path of a bicyclist
• and so on and so forth

An equally long list could be compiled for the deficit of individualism (extreme conformism), but as I don't believe that was the intent of Laurie's OP, I won't belabor the point.

You forgot the people who rustle plastic bags at 4 am, with their headlight on, just before they start singing. Because after all, they always sing at home in the mornings. So they are going to sing in the albergue while others are trying to sleep because "it's their Camino".

 

[Pingüigrino]

Hi peregrina 2000.
I agree with you. But nowadays there are three ways to walk the Camino ( my opinion). You can choose to walk like a pilgrim. Maybe you cant carry your bagpack, need to take a rest, maybe skip one or two stages, etc. But you are walking honestly. You are doing what you CAN. Bravo Pilgrim
You choose to walk like a tourist. Taking a taxi when you feel boring, using private albergues or hotels, enjoing your hike, visiting tourist atractions. But you are walking honestly. You are doing what you want when you want. OK with this,
You walk saying everyboy ( and yourself) you are a pilgrim, using pilgrims facilities, taking a taxi andt start walking one or two kms before the pilgrims albergues, partying everywhere, disrespecting the rest of others, etc Then walk the last 100 km, go to the Pilgrims Office and be the proud owner of a brand-new compostela. You are disrescpecting millions of persons whom walk the camino. Do not expect my help. Do no expect my understanding. Do no expect my respect.
I dont care if sound preachy or like a know-it-all. These are my feelings. If you are a cheater, that is what you are: What I, and many others like me call, contemptuously, a tourist-grino.
Buen Camino to all you honest people.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

Then with regard to some of the posts above, try substituting 'it's my pilgrimage' for 'it's my Camino' and see the difference it makes. We are all classed as pilgrims, with many walkers often self-identifying as such, some not until arrival in SdC because of some shift in perception, self-knowledge that happened along the Way, or as peregrina2000 says, because we have an experience(s) that teaches us that 'there is something here that is transcendent'.

 

[lovingkindness]

I have been doing some recent searching through the archives to find information on bag transport companies for a friend, and I have repeatedly come across a phrase that to me is like fingernails going over a chalkboard. And so, at the risk of sounding preachy and like a know-it-all, I would like to say that I think it would be great if we could relegate the "it's your Camino" mantra to the ash-heap of history and banish it from our vocabulary.

In my opinion, this feel good statement paints an inaccurate picture of the Camino that lies ahead for forum members. It's not YOUR Camino, it's THE Camino, a pilgrim path that has been followed by millions and millions of people over the ages. Each one of us who embarks on a Camino is but a tiny part of it. We do not own it, we are visitors on it, we have a responsibility to it. I know there is currently a huge debate about who gets to call the shots on it, but I think it’s pretty clear that we forum members do not get to call the shots.

I think the "it's your Camino" people were originally motivated by a caring inclusiveness, trying to push back against the purists, each of whom used a different standard to evaluate who is and who is not a "real pilgrim." But there is a huge difference between being arrogant and judgmental about who is walking the Camino in the "proper" way, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, adopting the totally standardless and self-indulgent idea that you can walk "your Camino" any old way you want, and that no one has any right to criticize, to call you out, or to be upset when they see you are acting in a sacrilegious, inappropriate or demeaning way. Wrapping yourself up in a bubble of "it's my camino" does nothing to further the cause of creating respect and even awe for the sacredness of these routes, it just creates a mantle of entitlement. I am not a religious person, but I have had enough magical camino experiences to know that there is something here that is transcendent, something that makes it almost sacrilegious for me to claim any ownership of the Camino. We may not have any control over how others walk the Camino, but I think we do a disservice to the Camino by pushing a self-centered approach here on the forum, when really we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, that was not my intent -- but this has been bubbling around inside me for a couple of years now and I thought it was time to get it off my chest. Buen camino, Laurie

Magnificent!

 

[Aidan21]

You know there is only one person that we can control, ourselves. And at times that can be a challenge. Would it be less stressful all round if we just took the time and effort to walk our camino in our way and let others do the same? Sure some people take short cuts, maybe outrageously so, but I am only responsible for me and getting upset about what others do is such a waste of life energy (and yeah I know at times it is easy to go down that route). I am on my journey and they are on theirs. I prefer to let others walk their journey without interference from me, unless invited to make comment or if I have a close personal relationship.
I do not have a problem with the phrase 'My Camino', as we each have a very personal and individual experience walking the way. Sure it is 'The Camino' also, it belongs to everybody, including the countless generations who have walked before us. Buen camino to us all.

 

[Mark Lee]

It is not the simple " my Camino" or "your Camino" that sets my teeth on edge so much.

It is the confrontational shouted "MY Camino" and "YOUR Camino" that greatly annoys me.
Why is it necessary to respond in all caps and bold when using this phrase?
Does that make your opinion a fact? Keep in mind that it really is just your opinion and that others may disagree.

OH, OK. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT ANNOYS YOU. I WILL TRY TO BE MORE CONSIDERATE IN THE FUTURE.
WAS THAT TOO LOUD?

 

[William Marques]

I am not as irked by the phrase as you Laurie. It's the Camino - does not make sense to me, is that the CF or one of the by now many others being rediscovered every year.

Not everyone's motivations are the same. Not everyone's method of reaching their destination are the same.

I am much more annoyed by those who seek to judge who is a real pilgrim.

I hope I haven't offended anyone.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I would like to illustrate the issue addressed by peregrina2000 with a picture I took on the Camino del Norte some time ago.

It's their Camino.

You are welcome to leave your comment on the picture page (link)

No offense to you, but I find this photo--in the context of this thread--a bit out of place. It seems sensationalist. If you took my photo wearing a swimsuit bottom, I would not be happy. I just find it a bit odd.

 

[Gareth Griffith]

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them that trespass against us.

Good advice in the past. Good advice now.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

If we give a nod to good pagan Aristotle . . . let's consider this from his definition of a virtue, which was a mean between an excess and a deficit. On one extreme we have an attitude of excessive individualism (I'll walk any darn way I want to without regard for its effects on anyone else because it's my Camino and no one is to tell me otherwise). On the opposite extreme we have an attitude devoid of individualism (There are specific and proper ways and reasons to walk the camino and anyone who doesn't meet these isn't really a true pilgrim and shouldn't walk). In the middle is a two-fold attitude of respect for those with differences and of sensitivity to the impact we might have on others.

One doesn't have to spend very long on the forum to see hints of both extremes, although most of us probably tend to operate in a range that, while left or right of center, is still within a middle ground. But, sooner or later, some of us latch onto some jugular issue where we end up outside that middle ground and camp out in an extreme. Or perhaps it's only me that's done that . . .

If I read Laurie's OP correctly, she is recoiling against the excessive individualism that disregards the impact on others, and she recognized that sometimes that excess emerges in reaction to an opposite extremism of propriety and purity of what it means to be a pilgrim.

While it is true that the camino is an individual journey (interiorly and exteriorly), it occurs in a communal context and there must be some level of respect given for the community. "It's my camino" doesn't justify:

• Leaving toilet paper or other litter laying around the landscape (including old boots on route markers)
• Walking around admiring statues and talking and snapping pictures in a church while the Mass is being celebrated
• Staying up until 1 AM in the commons playing loud drinking games
• Not donating at a donativo albergue but spending extra on food and wine eating out
• Stripping down to bra and panties to change three feet away from my 15 year old son (or me for that matter)
• Disregarding the advice of the SJPdP pilgrim's office when they recommend against taking the Route Napoleon
• Expecting rural Spain to cater to English-only speakers or <insert any other language of choice>
• Blatantly and publically disregarding the rules of the Catholic church regarding the Eucharist
• Bicyclists who shoots past a walker without warning at a high rate of speed
• A walker who deliberately obstructs the path of a bicyclist
• and so on and so forth

An equally long list could be compiled for the deficit of individualism (extreme conformism), but as I don't believe that was the intent of Laurie's OP, I won't belabor the point.

Add:

Writing graffiti and "meet me at" notes on public signs.
Turning on lights in albergues at 6 AM
Using bright electronics inconsiderately in the night
Not thanking
Telling fellow pilgrims what to do, how to do it, and et cetera
Showing off (you know what I'm talking about)
Dismissing others' religious views and sentiments


What I think this post was NOT meant to do was to propel us all into a level of judgment and condemnation that detracts from the spirit of Camino de Santiago. I think it is a good reminder to read through this thread and give some thought to how unique and blessed and special this pilgrimage route is.

The point "my Camino" might be better explained using the phrase "my journey" or "my way" of approaching the Way. I would also like to thank @Anemone del Camino for raising this same idea some months ago, and bringing my personal awareness up a notch in terms of what we are doing, what the historical context is, and et cetera. I would reference that thread, but can't remember where it is. I remember that at the time, I gave it quite a bit of thought, and appreciated the gentle admonition to consider using "El Camino" or "The Camino" versus "My Camino". None of us own it.

I think we all approach it uniquely.

My aim is not to judge, criticize, or get nasty with this addition. It's just that I am recently returned from a three-week trip to Spain, and I figure I walked--this time--about 250 kilometers. I loved it. During many of the difficult days, I would ask a friend, "Why do we do this?" as some days can indeed be very, very taxing. We just kind of laughed about it at the time--as we both realized that we love walking the Camino. So many positive experiences, beautiful views, challenges, and surprises.

It is not mine, and further to that point--I would add that because it is not, part of my job is to respect it and leave it as unblemished as possible. It was such a treat to see a clean path when I walked from 17 March through 1 April.

Just a few of my thoughts this beautiful spring morning.

Much love to all, and especially @peregrina2000 .

 

[LesBrass]

I hope I haven't offended anyone, that was not my intent -- but this has been bubbling around inside me for a couple of years now and I thought it was time to get it off my chest. Buen camino, Laurie

I'm not offended. For me, the 'my' bit of 'the' camino is about deciding on whether I wear a skirt or trousers or if I want to wear nail polish, or stay in a private room or transport a pack or bring a liner or a sleeping bag... the kind of things that are more personal and that should not impact on anyone else.

Can I add a couple of other expression to the ash heap though? Both 'real pilgrim' and tour-grino irritate me. I just imagine that they are said in a kind of sneering way... that if you're one and not the other then you are somehow lesser. But that's just me

p.s. I agree about posters saying that the photo could be just a picture of a couple walking back from the beach... and doesn't really tell us much... certainly not the entire story... I'm with @CaminoDebrita on that one. But it does show how easy it is for us all to form opinions?

 

[DanielH]

I have been doing some recent searching through the archives to find information on bag transport companies for a friend, and I have repeatedly come across a phrase that to me is like fingernails going over a chalkboard. And so, at the risk of sounding preachy and like a know-it-all, I would like to say that I think it would be great if we could relegate the "it's your Camino" mantra to the ash-heap of history and banish it from our vocabulary.

In my opinion, this feel good statement paints an inaccurate picture of the Camino that lies ahead for forum members. It's not YOUR Camino, it's THE Camino, a pilgrim path that has been followed by millions and millions of people over the ages. Each one of us who embarks on a Camino is but a tiny part of it. We do not own it, we are visitors on it, we have a responsibility to it. I know there is currently a huge debate about who gets to call the shots on it, but I think it’s pretty clear that we forum members do not get to call the shots.

I think the "it's your Camino" people were originally motivated by a caring inclusiveness, trying to push back against the purists, each of whom used a different standard to evaluate who is and who is not a "real pilgrim." But there is a huge difference between being arrogant and judgmental about who is walking the Camino in the "proper" way, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, adopting the totally standardless and self-indulgent idea that you can walk "your Camino" any old way you want, and that no one has any right to criticize, to call you out, or to be upset when they see you are acting in a sacrilegious, inappropriate or demeaning way. Wrapping yourself up in a bubble of "it's my camino" does nothing to further the cause of creating respect and even awe for the sacredness of these routes, it just creates a mantle of entitlement. I am not a religious person, but I have had enough magical camino experiences to know that there is something here that is transcendent, something that makes it almost sacrilegious for me to claim any ownership of the Camino. We may not have any control over how others walk the Camino, but I think we do a disservice to the Camino by pushing a self-centered approach here on the forum, when really we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, that was not my intent -- but this has been bubbling around inside me for a couple of years now and I thought it was time to get it off my chest. Buen camino, Laurie

The Spanish word Camino is often used interchangeable for journey, so while the Camino proper may not belong to me, my journey does

 

[trecile]

Hi peregrina 2000.
I agree with you. But nowadays there are three ways to walk the Camino ( my opinion). You can choose to walk like a pilgrim. Maybe you cant carry your bagpack, need to take a rest, maybe skip one or two stages, etc. But you are walking honestly. You are doing what you CAN. Bravo Pilgrim
You choose to walk like a tourist. Taking a taxi when you feel boring, using private albergues or hotels, enjoing your hike, visiting tourist atractions. But you are walking honestly. You are doing what you want when you want. OK with this,
You walk saying everyboy ( and yourself) you are a pilgrim, using pilgrims facilities, taking a taxi andt start walking one or two kms before the pilgrims albergues, partying everywhere, disrespecting the rest of others, etc Then walk the last 100 km, go to the Pilgrims Office and be the proud owner of a brand-new compostela. You are disrescpecting millions of persons whom walk the camino. Do not expect my help. Do no expect my understanding. Do no expect my respect.
I dont care if sound preachy or like a know-it-all. This are my feelings. If you are a cheater, that is what you are: What I, and many others like me call, contemptuously, a tourist-grino.
Buen Camino to all you honest people.

I believe that it's a waste of your energy to get annoyed at what other people do unless it directly impacts you. I don't see how someone acquiring a Compostela by "cheating" effects your accomplishment. The only harm done is to your sensibilities. You haven't been cheated out of anything.

 

[sabbott]

but I think we do a disservice to the Camino by pushing a self-centered approach here on the forum, when really we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is.

I'm always interested in what you have to say, Laurie, so as I'm about to start my first Camino walk, I would like to better understand your meaning here. (Perhaps it will be crystal clear by the time I'm finished walking!) Maybe you could add some specifics as to what you feel is a self-centered approach, so we could learn from your experience.

Some folks here are interpreting "avoid interfering with essence" as not dressing a certain way. That may be, especially when in a church--but it does seem unfair to post a picture of someone snapped against their knowledge, and then invite comments about how inappropriately they are dressed. (They just look young, fit and happy to me....)

A few years ago I had my one experience on the Camino, teaching a sketching workshop in Galicia. Our group rode in a van to our hiking points, had lovely picnics, and stayed in nice hotels. For all I knew, that's how pilgrims walked the Camino. I thought that winding path through villages and forests was magical, and immediately started planning to return and hike it on my own. Seven years later, here I am, about to leave....

I learned since that guided tour that there are many other ways to experience the Camino than from a van, including walking all the way with a pack on your back, which is what I'll be doing this time around. Maybe when I get to Galicia, the older current me (hot, tired and with sore feet) will pass the younger me (stepping out of a van to eat a picnic lunch), and I'll raise an eyebrow and think "What a wimp and phony this tour-grino is!"

But I hope not. Part of this journey, for me anyway, is to to try to learn to judge people--including myself--less.

 

[musicman]

Laurie, a deeply felt and keenly expressed Post, with which I totally agree.

I always use " the Camino", when talking generally; if specifically , then
"The Via de la Plata", for example.
What a lot of fuss about a lovely photo of a young couple , walking together; so what if she's wearing shorts? 21st Century, please!

 

[Jacobus]

I would like to illustrate the issue addressed by peregrina2000 with a picture I took on the Camino del Norte some time ago.

It's their Camino.

You are welcome to leave your comment on the picture page (link)

You should take note that this photo is taken on the coastal route or Camino del Norte. Unlike the Francés every second town you walk into is either a fishing village or a beach resort most of which enable swimmers to indulge. Hope that might ease some of the anxieties about the picture.!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It has been quite a while since we have had such a passive-aggressive thread!

Veiled intent, false compliments, innuendo.

 

[mspath]

C'est la vie, malheursement!/
That's life, unfortunately!

 

[MaidinBham]

I often say "my camino" (small "c") when referring to my personal journey and experiences on El Camino (capital "C") And while I try not to be judgmental of others, it does irk me the wrong way when others say that another persons camino does not affect them. It may, or may not, affect their camino directly, but it does affect El Camino, and we all share the responsibility to be mindful of that.
I am not offended at all by OP, and agree 100% with everything she has stated. Sadly though, the thread seems to be turning into, yet again, another discussion on "tour-grino" versus "real pilgrim" I think it just serves to perpetuate stereotypes, which serve no purpose other than to divide people. I would suggest that we are ALL tourist's, unless of course the tourism industry, governments, municipalities, Church's, Camino organizations, allocate resources based solely on pilgrimage.
Buen Camino,
Janice

 

[CaminoDebrita]

It has been quite a while since we have had such a passive-aggressive thread!

Veiled intent, false compliments, innuendo.

I didn't see veiled intent, false compliments or innuendo--except for the innuendo with the photograph of the scantily clad young adults.

 

[peregrina2000]

I'm always interested in what you have to say, Laurie, so as I'm about to start my first Camino walk, I would like to better understand your meaning here. (Perhaps it will be crystal clear by the time I'm finished walking!) Maybe you could add some specifics as to what you feel is a self-centered approach, so we could learn from your experience.

Some folks here are interpreting "avoid interfering with essence" as not dressing a certain way. That may be, especially when in a church--but it does seem unfair to post a picture of someone snapped against their knowledge, and then invite comments about how inappropriately they are dressed. (They just look young, fit and happy to me....)

A few years ago I had my one experience on the Camino, teaching a sketching workshop in Galicia. Our group rode in a van to our hiking points, had lovely picnics, and stayed in nice hotels. For all I knew, that's how pilgrims walked the Camino. I thought that winding path through villages and forests was magical, and immediately started planning to return and hike it on my own. Seven years later, here I am, about to leave....

I learned since that guided tour that there are many other ways to experience the Camino than from a van, including walking all the way with a pack on your back, which is what I'll be doing this time around. Maybe when I get to Galicia, the older current me (hot, tired and with sore feet) will pass the younger me (stepping out of a van to eat a picnic lunch), and I'll raise an eyebrow and think "What a wimp and phony this tour-grino is!"

But I hope not. Part of this journey, for me anyway, is to to try to learn to judge people--including myself--less.

Hi sabbott,

Judging from the responses, I think that my words resonated more strongly with people who have walked many caminos, been on the forum for a long time, and are otherwise totally immersed in all things Camino. If you haven't hung around these places a lot, you may not know that "it's your camino" has become a well worn phrase, a rally cry of sorts, used frequently by people who are (rightly, IMO) pushing back against the overly judgmental so-called purists. But what I've seen over the years, as it comes to dominate our attitude about the Camino, is that it has taken on a broader meaning, and seems to have given legitimacy to a WTF attitude about me and my entitlement.

I know that everyone walks their caminos in their own way, and I am not for a minute suggesting that there is a right or a wrong way. I just think that a phrase that was originally used to reflect inclusiveness and respect for individual differences has in some cases morphed into a license for self-centeredness, arrogance even, and entitlement. I am not talking so much about specific behaviors as I am about attitudes and ways of thinking. I don't care where people sleep, if they have to take a bus sometimes, or what they wear, I am referring only to an attitude that I see both on the forum and on the Camino, and I think that "it's your Camino" encourages that attitude as the scope of its meaning broadens.

I surely am aware that words on a forum will not change the world or the Camino, but I was writing in the hope that at least a few people would reflect on how the Camino, as a religious pilgrimage route that has been travelled for centuries, is something that deserves our respect and humility in a way that a walk on other long distance trails might not. And to the extent that "it's your Camino" has moved us away from that focus, I think it has not been a positive addition to our lexicon. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Seabird]

Being a both/and rather than an either/or sort of girl, I wade in here. It is my internal Camino experience. I alone am responsible for it, just as I am individually responsible for my relationship with the Divine. And that experience is in the context of a communal physical setting and experience, which is a shared responsibility. We pilgrims owe each other mutual respect as individuals, and we owe respect to the physical setting and circumstances of the Camino route.

I like how Kitsambler has separated out the internal/personal from the shared/community aspects. I think this applies in all aspects of our lives. Unfortunately, here in the U.S. at least, I believe we are losing sight of what it means to be part of a community. We chase the all-important "I" and believe we have the right to say or do what we want when we want. I'm a "yet-to-experience-it" pilgrim, but perhaps this same trend is being seen on the Camino.

 

[Pingüigrino]

I believe that it's a waste of your energy to get annoyed at what other people do unless it directly impacts you. I don't see how someone acquiring a Compostela by "cheating" effects your accomplishment. The only harm done is to your sensibilities. You haven't been cheated out of anything.

Hi trecile. Next august, when walking your camino, maybe youll arrive to an albergue with a sign at the door saying FULL. Maybe you had been wallking for seven or eigth hours under an inclement sun, or under a horrifying storm. You probable feel tired, miserable, hungry, and painful. But the albergue is full, and you must walk for two more hours. Next day, when you are walking again, a taxi full of laughting " pilgrims", the same people you saw yesterday in their dry clothes, those persons you never saw walking, pases you. This evening you and them coincide at same albergue. They are partying all evening long. At nigth two por three of them are drunk and dont let anybody rest. Fifteen days later you find them again at Santiago with other fellow pilgrims, taking pictures, celebrating the end of their "pilgrimage". That day, perhaps, you will remember me. And talking about the Compostela: what I love is the Camino, nor to arrive. I got my first Compostela march 30th. And that was not my first time at Santiago, I swear. Apologies for my bad english. Buen Camino to all respecfull people walking it.

 

[Devon Mike]

The Spanish word Camino is often used interchangeable for journey, so while the Camino proper may not belong to me, my journey does

EXACTLY Daniel. It is MY journey on THE road.

 

[sabbott]

Judging from the responses, I think that my words resonated more strongly with people who have walked many caminos, been on the forum for a long time, and are otherwise totally immersed in all things Camino. If you haven't hung around these places a lot, you may not know that "it's your camino" has become a well worn phrase, a rally cry of sorts, used frequently by people who are (rightly, IMO) pushing back against the overly judgmental so-called purists. But what I've seen over the years, as it comes to dominate our attitude about the Camino, is that it has taken on a broader meaning, and seems to have given legitimacy to a WTF attitude about me and my entitlement.

Thanks for explaining, Laurie, makes sense.

 

[Gareth Griffith]

Superstitious nonsense: it is Mushkil Gusha who provides!!

Who's he/she?

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Who's he/she?

http://www.uexpress.com/tell-me-a-story/2007/6/10/mushkil-gushas-magic-a-persian-folktale

Ask and ye shall receive! Here's a tale of Mushkil Gusha!

 

[Deleted member 36903]

One thing that I won't put up with and that's intolerance!

If you don't like the phrase "it's your camino" that's your issue.

I have to disagree Gareth Griffith.
Oh, if only words didn't connect directly to or reflect values and mutual respect (or lack of) in our interractions with one another. We rightly characterise verbal expressions of racism, sexism and homophobia as hate speech, and I assume that most on this forum would challenge anyone using language in that way. While the expression 'it's my camino' is clearly not on the same level, it can be indicative of an anti-communal and disrespecting attitude to the wide spectrum of fellow pilgrims and it is worth quoting here what peregrina2000 actually said because she had obviously taken pains to phrase it so carefully:

Wrapping yourself up in a bubble of "it's my camino" does nothing to further the cause of creating respect and even awe for the sacredness of these routes, it just creates a mantle of entitlement. I am not a religious person, but I have had enough magical camino experiences to know that there is something here that is transcendent, something that makes it almost sacrilegious for me to claim any ownership of the Camino. We may not have any control over how others walk the Camino, but I think we do a disservice to the Camino by pushing a self-centered approach here on the forum, when really we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is.

I believe it is right to expect more of ourselves when we walk the Camino because for so many it is not just a walk in the woods; these are historically, culturally sacred routes and the journey is a communal undertaking, even if we walk 'alone we eat at places where others take the time to cook our food; or we sleep in albergues where someone, perhaps anonymous or unseen, prepares the beds and cleans the buildings; the Guardia regularly patrol the lonelier stretches of the Way looking out for any pilgrims in difficulties; people enroute welcome complete strangers into their lives. They do all this not for the money - there is little to be made from pilgrim meals or albergues - but from a communality that sees those walking the Camino as special but temporary guests passing through their communities. Having encountered so much warm-heartedness from Spanish people and generosity of spirit with pilgrims looking out for each other last year, I would have to say that life isn't always driven by an 'I'll do as I please' attitude, but encountering that attitude on this forum and sometimes - but not often - on the Way always feels like having been slapped in the face and a threat to the continuation of the goodwill that the Camino can engender in all of those who make that journey and those who support them. John Donne's poem No Man Is An Island is an eloquent expression of this, an edited version is below with a link to the actual poem .

No man is an island, entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the continent a part of the main
...
Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

poemhunter.com/poem/no-man-is-an-island

 

[Deleted member 36903]

How about "Buen Camino!" then?

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Pulitzer-prize award winner Mary Oliver wrote this poem, and I will share it with you. As an English teacher of high school students, and a long-time hiker, I find poetry a perfect match for those times when words seem to fail us.

Unlike one of our forum members who writes nearly entirely in poetry, I usually stick to prose, but here's one for the books, again--by Mary Oliver.

Wild Geese
You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and the deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.
Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air,
are heading home again.
Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting
over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.
from Dream Work by Mary Oliver
published by Atlantic Monthly Press
© Mary Oliver

 

[Kathar1na]

these are historically, culturally sacred routes

This is something that I have seen stated repeatedly but I fail to understand it: that these open roads leading to Santiago are sacred or holy spaces.

 

[Lmsundaze]

I have to disagree Gareth Griffith.
Oh, if only words didn't connect directly to or reflect values and mutual respect (or lack of) in our interractions with one another. We rightly characterise verbal expressions of racism, sexism and homophobia as hate speech, and I assume that most on this forum would challenge anyone using language in that way. While the expression 'it's my camino' is clearly not on the same level, it can be indicative of an anti-communal and disrespecting attitude to the wide spectrum of fellow pilgrims and it is worth quoting here what peregrina2000 actually said because she had obviously taken pains to phrase it so carefully:

Wrapping yourself up in a bubble of "it's my camino" does nothing to further the cause of creating respect and even awe for the sacredness of these routes, it just creates a mantle of entitlement. I am not a religious person, but I have had enough magical camino experiences to know that there is something here that is transcendent, something that makes it almost sacrilegious for me to claim any ownership of the Camino. We may not have any control over how others walk the Camino, but I think we do a disservice to the Camino by pushing a self-centered approach here on the forum, when really we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is.

I believe it is right to expect more of ourselves when we walk the Camino because for so many it is not just a walk in the woods; these are historically, culturally sacred routes and the journey is a communal undertaking, even if we walk 'alone we eat at places where others take the time to cook our food; or we sleep in albergues where someone, perhaps anonymous or unseen, prepares the beds and cleans the buildings; the Guardia regularly patrol the lonelier stretches of the Way looking out for any pilgrims in difficulties; people enroute welcome complete strangers into their lives. They do all this not for the money - there is little to be made from pilgrim meals or albergues - but from a communality that sees those walking the Camino as special but temporary guests passing through their communities. Having encountered so much warm-heartedness from Spanish people and generosity of spirit with pilgrims looking out for each other last year, I would have to say that life isn't always driven by an 'I'll do as I please' attitude, but encountering that attitude on this forum and sometimes - but not often - on the Way always feels like having been slapped in the face and a threat to the continuation of the goodwill that the Camino can engender in all of those who make that journey and those who support them. John Donne's poem No Man Is An Island is an eloquent expression of this, an edited version is below with a link to the actual poem .

No man is an island, entire of itself;
every man is a piece of the continent a part of the main
...
Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.

poemhunter.com/poem/no-man-is-an-island

Thank you so much SEB, I didn't understand what this was about, now I do.

 

[malingerer]

I have been doing some recent searching through the archives to find information on bag transport companies for a friend, and I have repeatedly come across a phrase that to me is like fingernails going over a chalkboard. And so, at the risk of sounding preachy and like a know-it-all, I would like to say that I think it would be great if we could relegate the "it's your Camino" mantra to the ash-heap of history and banish it from our vocabulary.

In my opinion, this feel good statement paints an inaccurate picture of the Camino that lies ahead for forum members. It's not YOUR Camino, it's THE Camino, a pilgrim path that has been followed by millions and millions of people over the ages. Each one of us who embarks on a Camino is but a tiny part of it. We do not own it, we are visitors on it, we have a responsibility to it. I know there is currently a huge debate about who gets to call the shots on it, but I think it’s pretty clear that we forum members do not get to call the shots.

I think the "it's your Camino" people were originally motivated by a caring inclusiveness, trying to push back against the purists, each of whom used a different standard to evaluate who is and who is not a "real pilgrim." But there is a huge difference between being arrogant and judgmental about who is walking the Camino in the "proper" way, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, adopting the totally standardless and self-indulgent idea that you can walk "your Camino" any old way you want, and that no one has any right to criticize, to call you out, or to be upset when they see you are acting in a sacrilegious, inappropriate or demeaning way. Wrapping yourself up in a bubble of "it's my camino" does nothing to further the cause of creating respect and even awe for the sacredness of these routes, it just creates a mantle of entitlement. I am not a religious person, but I have had enough magical camino experiences to know that there is something here that is transcendent, something that makes it almost sacrilegious for me to claim any ownership of the Camino. We may not have any control over how others walk the Camino, but I think we do a disservice to the Camino by pushing a self-centered approach here on the forum, when really we ought to be pushing the idea that each of us has a huge responsibility to respect the Camino and to avoid acts that interfere with its essence, even though we may not ever agree on what that essence is.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, that was not my intent -- but this has been bubbling around inside me for a couple of years now and I thought it was time to get it off my chest. Buen camino, Laurie

a post that needs repeating. I say no more.

Love, respect.

THAT'S CAMINO.

Samarkand.

 

[Tincatinker]

An old thread, but one that contains some careful thought and good discussion. Members are urged to read before responding

 

[RJM]

I have never cared for cliche expressions, motivational phrases etc etc etc.....
To me they too are like the proverbial fingernails on a chalkboard, mosquito buzzing in my ear. So anytime I hear any of them I quietly laugh and shake my head. Same goes for terms like "trail magic" etc...ugh. lol
I just see it all as why even care what others think of how and where you walk the Camino, or anything else in life?

 

[trecile]

Members are urged to read before responding

Where's the fun in that?

 

[JabbaPapa]

It's OUR Camino -- plural. We share it with each other, it's not "mine".

 

[efdoucette]

Wow, I couldn't get through all the comments, they seemed to have branched off a bit.

"It's your Camino" is a term I have used many times, but in the context of helping friends to plan a Camino, to encourage them not to, say, get intimated by X number of kms or a requirement to sleep in albergues. I cannot envision using that term in any other context, It's not a free pass to do 'what you want', who are these people?

I hold Laurie and her words at the highest level, informed, thoughtful and generous. I place the Camino in one of the most important aspects of my life. Maybe I need to reword my approach a little or at least qualify the term.

 

[AnneO]

I have not yet walked a Camino, and I can say that hearing people talk about it being your/my Camino has made it possible for me to even contemplate doing it. I do not want to sleep in communal accommodations (and I snore so you probably don’t want me there either!) and I have back issues that made me concerned about carrying my pack. I thought those were the rules though and so I thought I couldn’t do it.

Hearing people say “it’s your Camino” and being reassured that there isn’t just one way to be a “real pilgrim” made all the difference for me. I am now planning a 2023 Camino knowing that the way I want to do it is possible. Others may disagree with my choices, but I am OK with that. After all, it will be my Camino. But I never thought that meant I could do anything I wanted, any time I wanted, anywhere I wanted.

 

[C clearly]

I thought those were the rules though

I think that is the key lesson that newcomers to the whole idea need to understand - the Camino is not a fixed physical entity like a theme park or a constrained trail area that is managed by any authority. Normal government authorities in Spain do their jobs, many businesses and non-profits offer services with their own rules and objectives, and the cathedral decides who to give the compostela to. That's it!

 

[Former member 91017]

...reading the original post from *way back*, going through the thread... I think there is a distinction to be made about the issue of nobody having the right to judge how a person walks -- because we all have our own challenges, burdens and joys to navigate and find -- and a distortion of that hope into it's "mine, and I paid for it, and how dare the difficulty of the existence of others intrude on my experience."

Some years ago I had asked for advice on this board about how to take a beloved family member with me. That member has a developmental disability that combines a propensity to be a chatterbox with an inability to sleep. I sought advice about maybe walking at night... and I received more negative responses to the effect of "How dare you ruin MY camino with your garbage-for-a-human" kinds of responses than I could ever have anticipated.

I had figured on staying hotels, not dorms (because I'm not a jerk, and because my beloved is fearful of strangers). and even so I heard a lot of "you'll just ruin my camino and everyone else's; don't come."

It really broke me...

It was like being called human garbage.

And that version of "it's *MY* camino" is the kind of line that I think @peregrina2000 was addressing way back.

The camino has been called many things, including a "moving madhouse".... and I will suggest that anyone disinclined to be kind to people with different kinds of struggles would do best to avoid a pilgrimage that has called the less perfect among us to Santiago for 1000-ish years.

I do not mean to suggest that one has to "walk with" those who struggle. I certainly maintain my distance from those clearly struggling with addictions, hallucinations and so forth. But I have not told them they ruin *my camino*. To learn to live with a riotous and imperfect and noisy world, IMHO, is a central part of the opening of one's heart that is so valuable about a camino. It's not a "relais de silence"; it's not a "yoga retreat".... it's not even a silent retreat at a monastery that invites the laity in...

Thinking aloud, I offer that the walk challenges us to walk with and accept imperfection, not to demand that it disappear.

 

[peregrina2000]

Re-reading this original post after so many years, I want to apologize for sounding so pedantic. I would not be surprised if many of you reading that first post were to think — gheesh, I hope I never run into her on a camino. But I appreciate that so many people understood what I was trying to say and overlooked the know-it-all preachy part of it.

 

[Kanga]

I think @Faye Walker's post is very valuable and thank her for the insight. I know that in the past I've given hasty answers that I now regret. I particularly remember being negative about children being taken on Camino. Wow, did @Kiwi-family have a lesson for me! And now I've met many children on Camino, and read their often inspiring stories, and love the idea.

For me the problem is usually caused by jumping to conclusions. I doubt many of our members are other than well intentioned, but we don't know the full story when we read a post.