Jews on the Camino

[Deleted member 3000]

http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/travel/jews-camino

 

[Anemone del Camino]

http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/travel/jews-camino

Interesting read, thank you.

"Santiago is dotted with small, white-walled art galleries that tend to showcase art with a local flavor; black-and-white palettes and swooping curves are visual signatures. All of these galleries are free, and many host wine-and-cheese nights, children’s events and other activities." What have I been doing wrong? I keep looking for art galleries (non tourist) and have yet to find one. Will look harder.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Another example of why the Camino's are so special. All of us just show up & walk. All are simply welcomed, Says a lot of good about Spain. I read the rules of the forum again, I am supprised I have not been warned on some things.

 

[esmess]

I'm happy to hear this. I went to Barcelona after the Camino and saw Jewish headstones that had been used as building materials in many buildings in the old city. I will never understand why history has been so harsh on the Jewish people - even the title of this post sets them apart somehow! I met people of all faiths on the Camino, and many of no faith! For me it's got not that much to do with religion, but a lot to do with soul.

 

[ricitosdeplata]

Esmess, I can see where you're coming from but Jews aren't necessarily being singled out for their religion, but maybe more so because they paid an important role in Spanish history. They contributed much to Spain and I have read that the fall of Spain's importance in the world began with the expulsion of the Jews. To make reparation, Spain allows dual citizenship to those who can trace their Sephardic ancestors.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

even the title of this post sets them apart somehow

It is the title of the article in The New York Jewish Week, Connecting the World to Jewish News, Culture and Opinion! Please feel free to complain to them.

 

[naplesdon]

Last week I watched the interaction between a young Israeli and a young German between Peunta la Reina and Los Arcos for several days. There was no axe to grind, they were usually having a conversation about their confused love life and what sort of job to look for after the Camino. Very refreshing!

 

[HuffyCane]

Spain has a very liberal citizenship policy, if you can trace ancestry there, not just for persons claiming reparations.

It's good to know there is tolerance on the Camino. We leave in a few days and I've been a bit worried about any conflict my Mormon faith might have with the prejudice of fellow travelers. I don't react well in some of those situations. Something I need to work on when Im outside of the Mormon bubble.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Spain has a very liberal citizenship policy, if you can trace ancestry there, not just for persons claiming reparations.

It's good to know there is tolerance on the Camino. We leave in a few days and I've been a bit worried about any conflict my Mormon faith might have with the prejudice of fellow travelers. I don't react well in some of those situations. Something I need to work on when Im outside of the Mormon bubble.

Trust me this is for every faith if you don't feel the spirit on this walk I will be surprised!
Keith

 

[Mark Lee]

Spain has a very liberal citizenship policy, if you can trace ancestry there, not just for persons claiming reparations.

It's good to know there is tolerance on the Camino. We leave in a few days and I've been a bit worried about any conflict my Mormon faith might have with the prejudice of fellow travelers. I don't react well in some of those situations. Something I need to work on when Im outside of the Mormon bubble.

Nobody on the Camino cares what faith you are. I know I didn't. I met pilgrims of many faiths. Christians and Jews. Muslims and Buddhists, and those that practice no particular faith.
cheers

 

[HuffyCane]

Good to hear. As far as the Church is concerned, James appeared on Earth personally to the first Prophet, Joseph Smith, in 1830 to formally confer authority upon the Prophet to lead the restored Christian faith on Earth. This teaching is clearly very different from other Christian denomination's teachings, so I'm a bit concerned about friction by persons unfamiliar with my faith.

In general, I try to avoid discussing my faith. People assume you are trying to convert them and the Church relies on missionaries to formally perform that calling. (The young men you see in black pants, white shirt and tie). It sounds like I'll be left alone on this subject. That's probably good.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Good to hear. As far as the Church is concerned, James appeared on Earth personally to the first Prophet, Joseph Smith, in 1830 to formally confer authority upon the Prophet to lead the restored Christian faith on Earth. This teaching is clearly very different from other Christian denomination's teachings, so I'm a bit concerned about friction by persons unfamiliar with my faith.

In general, I try to avoid discussing my faith. People assume you are trying to convert them and the Church relies on missionaries to formally perform that calling. (The young men you see in black pants, white shirt and tie). It sounds like I'll be left alone on this subject. That's probably good.

Like all Christians you are experiencing what most do when having to defend your faith. But I know in my heart that you have accepted Jesus. So brother walk with others & be an example of what a soft humble heart can discover.

 

[Kathar1na]

The article is not only about religion, or even primarily about religion, it is also about the cultural contribution of the (former) Jewish community in Santiago and, by extension, in Spain and in Europe. I was interested to read for example that "the ubiquitous almond cake, fragrant and satisfying without being overly sweet" that is sold in pastelerías around Santiago and known as “tarta de Santiago” it is believed to have its origins in Jewish cuisine.

PS: Apparently, the Saint James cross pattern on the top of the cake is a modern 20th century addition.

 

[Pabloke]

They contributed much to Spain and I have read that the fall of Spain's importance in the world began with the expulsion of the Jews.

I don't think so. That expulsion occured at the end of the 15th Century and the Spain's decline happened in the 17th. Actually, this sad stage of the Spain's History coincided with others such as the muslims' expulsion and the notorious Inquisición, and the real birth os Spain as a nation after the union of Castile and Aragon and the conquests of Granada and Navarre Kingdoms.

 

[ricitosdeplata]

The expulsion of the Jews, from what I've read, and I am no expert, to be sure, caused direct and indirect consequences that contributed to the decline of Spain. That there were other forces is undeniable. Historians continue to debate the issue.

 

[Mark Lee]

Good to hear. As far as the Church is concerned, James appeared on Earth personally to the first Prophet, Joseph Smith, in 1830 to formally confer authority upon the Prophet to lead the restored Christian faith on Earth. This teaching is clearly very different from other Christian denomination's teachings, so I'm a bit concerned about friction by persons unfamiliar with my faith.

In general, I try to avoid discussing my faith. People assume you are trying to convert them and the Church relies on missionaries to formally perform that calling. (The young men you see in black pants, white shirt and tie). It sounds like I'll be left alone on this subject. That's probably good.

Honestly, on both Caminos, I had zero discussions about religion with any of my fellow pilgrims. Zero. I never brought it up (and don't know why anybody would) and it was never asked to me.
Just get to steppin and enjoy yourself.
cheers

 

[Pabloke]

The expulsion of the Jews, from what I've read, and I am no expert, to be sure, caused direct and indirect consequences that contributed to the decline of Spain. That there were other forces is undeniable. Historians continue to debate the issue.

Objectively, the best age of Spain started with the "discovering" of America and the tons of gold and silver that it brought, at the same time the jews were thrown out.

During the 16th Century Spain was an empire owning 2/3 of America, the south of current Italy, Belgium, the Nederlands, parts of current Germany, Phillipines, territories in Africa and Asia and the whole Iberian peninsula.

At the end of the 17th Century (200 years after the expulsion) under the reign of Phillip IV and his son Charles II, after several wars in Europe and the wastages of Holland and Portugal (within many other reasons) Spain started to fall.

The raise and fall of Spain happened after the expulsion of jews.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Objectively, the best age of Spain started with the "discovering" of America and the tons of gold and silver that it brought, at the same time the jews were thrown out.

During the 16th Century Spain was an empire owning 2/3 of America, the south of current Italy, Belgium, the Nederlands, parts of current Germany, Phillipines, territories in Africa and Asia and the whole Iberian peninsula.

At the end of the 17th Century (200 years after the expulsion) under the reign of Phillip IV and his son Charles II, after several wars in Europe and the wastages of Holland and Portugal (within many other reasons) Spain started to fall.

The raise and fall of Spain happened after the expulsion of jews.

I am not sure if this is just an interest of yours but maybe you can fill us in on the current law going into effect in October. I have a Doctor I work with who is going to try to regain his family's citizenship. As they ended up in Mexico. I will be very happy for him if it works out as it will make his young children citizens of not only Spain but other parts of Europe I think due to the euro zone agreements. Once again good idea as an example to the rest of the world, not only for Jewish folks but any persecuted group.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I am not sure if this is just an interest of yours but maybe you can fill us in on the current law going into effect in October. I have a Doctor I work with who is going to try to regain his family's citizenship. As they ended up in Mexico. I will be very happy for him if it works out as it will make his young children citizens of not only Spain but other parts of Europe I think due to the euro zone agreements. Once again good idea as an example to the rest of the world, not only for Jewish folks but any persecuted group.

Got ours back via Mex 20 years ago, but you had a certain time to apply. Ti,e may be over.

 

[Pabloke]

I am not sure if this is just an interest of yours but maybe you can fill us in on the current law going into effect in October. I have a Doctor I work with who is going to try to regain his family's citizenship. As they ended up in Mexico. I will be very happy for him if it works out as it will make his young children citizens of not only Spain but other parts of Europe I think due to the euro zone agreements. Once again good idea as an example to the rest of the world, not only for Jewish folks but any persecuted group.

Check this out. It's in english and spanish.

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/SANFRANCISCO/es/ServiciosConsulares/Documents/Nacionalidad/Sefardies info.pdf

The new law will be just a modification of an article of the Spanish Civil Code. Basically, Sephardies won't have to renounce their nationality, no matter where they're from. If they are mexicans they don't need to wait for the new law.

It is supposed that (new law) will work for three years since it's approved.

 

[VictoreaL]

http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/travel/jews-camino

I would like to see us all refer to one another as "Humans" rather than by race, creed, belief system, etc. Just a thought.

 

[Kathar1na]

I would like to see us all refer to one another as "Humans" rather than by race, creed, belief system, etc. Just a thought.

Do you think that people dislike or hate each other because they look different, have different religions, belief systems? Most of them don't. And more often than not it's not religion or language that has caused friction or wars, it was and is underlying economic reasons.

To walk along the Caminos - after all, they are being promoted as European Cultural Routes - and try to ignore our cultural diversity (which is not a bad thing as such but an asset and an enrichment) strikes me as odd.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I would like to see us all refer to one another as "Humans" rather than by race, creed, belief system, etc. Just a thought.

Tell it to the Jewish Weekly.

 

[scruffy1]

Wasn't going to write but changed my mind. I always join friends on the Camino and attend the Pilgrims Mass where ever offered. Don't really participate but I have learned to stand up and sit down at the right times, when to turn and shake hands etc. My favorite part? The officiating priest usually asks for the pilgrims to come forward and asks us who we are and from where we have come. My answer is always a solid "Un judío de Jerusalén" usually resulting in a jaw dropping silent moment then a response of "Shalom" or even Welcome in Hebrew! Once in Conques, the organ master came and sang "Shema Israel" a part of all our prayers in perfect Hebrew-never a dull moment.

PS The Jews were not only expelled in 1492 all their property was confiscated and used to finance the voyage of Columbus. At one go the financial underpinning of the country vanished as well as most of the doctors, lawyers (no great loss some may say), and scholars. The last of the Muslims went in 1609 taking with them the remaining scholars and doctors. Karl Marx did the rest, tons of gold were brought back from the Americas and like black pepper, nutmeg, cloves and mace - the price plummeted ruining all market speculation (no great loss some will say).

 

[oursonpolaire]

http://www.thejewishweek.com/features/travel/jews-camino

Last year I walked the primitivo and met a US pilgrim who had just attended a high holy day service in Oviedo with the very small number of Jews there - he told me that it was one of the most moving services he had ever attended. A few of us walked the 32km stage to Lugo with him, awed that a man in his 70s could keep the Yom Kippur fast with such resolution- two young German pilgrims joined him in keeping the fast- it was an extraordinary day.

 

[ricitosdeplata]

Oursonpolaire and scruffy1, great moments on the camino!

 

[Pabloke]

The Jews were not only expelled in 1492 all their property was confiscated and used to finance the voyage of Columbus.

Not at all; absolutely not, sir.

Jews were allowed to sell all their properties. Just those condemned had all their properties confiscated, like the rest of condemned people.

You can read the Edicto de Granada.

At one go the financial underpinning of the country vanished as well as most of the doctors, lawyers (no great loss some may say), and scholars. The last of the Muslims went in 1609 taking with them the remaining scholars and doctors. Karl Marx did the rest, tons of gold were brought back from the Americas and like black pepper, nutmeg, cloves and mace - the price plummeted ruining all market speculation (no great loss some will say).

And I repeat that the golden age of Spain came after the expulsion and it was for two hundred years. I know there are lots of theories about the link between one and other matter but timeline and dates are irrefutable.

History is (and always has to be) about truth, no matter if it's bland, ugly or hurtful.

 

[StuartM]

Spain has a very liberal citizenship policy, if you can trace ancestry there, not just for persons claiming reparations.

It's good to know there is tolerance on the Camino. We leave in a few days and I've been a bit worried about any conflict my Mormon faith might have with the prejudice of fellow travelers. I don't react well in some of those situations. Something I need to work on when Im outside of the Mormon bubble.

I can't recall faith ever being much of a conversation topic on the Camino, my unscientific opinion is that English speaking walkers (Brits, US, Canadians, Aussies and Kiwis) that I encountered were predominantly walking for secular reasons. The exception were the Irish who tended to be very open about their religious reasons for walking.

The article is not only about religion, or even primarily about religion, it is also about the cultural contribution of the (former) Jewish community in Santiago and, by extension, in Spain and in Europe. I was interested to read for example that "the ubiquitous almond cake, fragrant and satisfying without being overly sweet" that is sold in pastelerías around Santiago and known as “tarta de Santiago” it is believed to have its origins in Jewish cuisine.

PS: Apparently, the Saint James cross pattern on the top of the cake is a modern 20th century addition.

Claudia Roden (a Jewish food writer) mentions this in her book about Spanish cuisine. Although she says it didn't go down too well when she said it to a Galician TV talk show host

 

[StuartM]

I will never understand why history has been so harsh on the Jewish people

Easy targets.

Trades & crafts were often forbidden to Jews by local laws and guilds which left few outlets for making a living. Becoming a merchant was one of the few professions a mediaeval Jew could do. So the Jewish community started becoming wealthy. Mediaeval Christianity forebade the lending of money for profit, Judaism didn't so most of the heads of state and nobility ended up in hawk at one point to Jewish money lenders. European nobility was surprisingly poor, they ran off credit and mortgages that made 2007 look like conservative financial policy.

Use religious differences as an excuse and you had an easy solution to your kingdom's credit crisis. Phillip of France and the Pope did the same thing with the Templars when their finances hit the rocks as well. When the Spanish Jews were expelled they were allowed to take everything they owned... provided it wasn't in the form of gold, silver or jewels. Great, that's all the furniture you could carry...

The wealth (or at least perceived wealth, it wasn't always true) of the various Jewish communities in Europe in combination with the "you crucified Jesus" charges made them the first people to turn on when things got tough. In more recent times, I suspect simply being so different with a bit of folk memory of past persecutions to set a precedent was enough to arouse hatred and suspicion.

 

[esmess]

Easy targets.

Trades & crafts were often forbidden to Jews by local laws and guilds which left few outlets for making a living. Becoming a merchant was one of the few professions a mediaeval Jew could do. So the Jewish community started becoming wealthy. Mediaeval Christianity forebade the lending of money for profit, Judaism didn't so most of the heads of state and nobility ended up in hawk at one point to Jewish money lenders. European nobility was surprisingly poor, they ran off credit and mortgages that made 2007 look like conservative financial policy.

Use religious differences as an excuse and you had an easy solution to your kingdom's credit crisis. Phillip of France and the Pope did the same thing with the Templars when their finances hit the rocks as well. When the Spanish Jews were expelled they were allowed to take everything they owned... provided it wasn't in the form of gold, silver or jewels. Great, that's all the furniture you could carry...

The wealth (or at least perceived wealth, it wasn't always true) of the various Jewish communities in Europe in combination with the "you crucified Jesus" charges made them the first people to turn on when things got tough. In more recent times, I suspect simply being so different with a bit of folk memory of past persecutions to set a precedent was enough to arouse hatred and suspicion.

Than you! That makes sense, as unfair and awful as it is. I've akways wondered why ...

 

[scruffy1]

And do remember that history is always written by the victors. The Jews were allowed four months from the proclamation of the Alhambra degree before the expulsion. Spain 1492 is not Spain 21015 and many Jews received the notification only several weeks before leaving. They could sell their possessions but were prohibited to take gold and silver exchanging houses merchandise and possessions for portable trade goods. Most tried to go on to Portugal where a similar and far more harsh expulsion occurred in 1496 - read a bit about the Isle Saint Thomas off the coast of Africa for a particularly horrific event involving the deaths of thousands of Jewish children. The majority of Spanish Jews-men women, children, the elderly, the ill and the infirm those giving birth were packed like cord wood onto Spanish sailing vessels and cast off for North Africa. Many were simply cast overboard by the crews who quickly returned to Spain to take on another ":shipment". Hundreds of thousands perished. Jewish literature, contemporary diaries in Spanish and Hebrew all tell the same story of cruelty, hardship, murder, and theft. It was not a splendid period in Spanish history. By 1588, yes the Armada and the wars in the Nederlands, under the Hapsburg dynasty ruling Spain brought the country to the brink of bankruptcy. Don Quixote was first published 1505 and reflects another side of Spanish life after the Expulsion. The Jews never forgave the Spanish, Jewish merchants in Amsterdam financed English and Dutch buccaneers who attacked the Spanish Gold/Silver fleets from the New World. Jewish mysticism is a direct result of the expulsion, the Book of Splendor and the real Zohar not the Hollywood/Madonna version of today, mysticism which deals with the restoration of the world and universe to holiness and rightful order, something they did not experience in their lives.

 

[paul.ferris]

My reading leads me to believe that, ironically, Ya'qob (Hebrew), Iago (Spanish), James (English) would have believed himself to be a Jewish follower of a Jewish messiah.

 

[Pelegrin]

I can't recall faith ever being much of a conversation topic on the Camino, my unscientific opinion is that English speaking walkers (Brits, US, Canadians, Aussies and Kiwis) that I encountered were predominantly walking for secular reasons. The exception were the Irish who tended to be very open about their religious reasons for walking.



Claudia Roden (a Jewish food writer) mentions this in her book about Spanish cuisine. Although she says it didn't go down too well when she said it to a Galician TV talk show host

I didn´t know that point, but I'm Galician and for me make sense that tarta de Santiago could have a Jew origin, because in Galicia we don´t have almond trees. Also, the most famous Galician recipe pulpo a feira was introduced by the Maragatos (León), because in Galicia we don´t produce paprika and olive oil.

 

[MTtoCamino]

You all are Awsome!

 

[ricitosdeplata]

Scruffy1, I read about the Jewish merchants in Amsterdam. Consequences of the expulsion may have just preceded a golden age for Spain but chickens came home to roost eventually.

 

[Pabloke]

And do remember that history is always written by the victors. The Jews were allowed four months from the proclamation of the Alhambra degree before the expulsion. Spain 1492 is not Spain 21015 and many Jews received the notification only several weeks before leaving. They could sell their possessions but were prohibited to take gold and silver exchanging houses merchandise and possessions for portable trade goods. Most tried to go on to Portugal where a similar and far more harsh expulsion occurred in 1496 - read a bit about the Isle Saint Thomas off the coast of Africa for a particularly horrific event involving the deaths of thousands of Jewish children. The majority of Spanish Jews-men women, children, the elderly, the ill and the infirm those giving birth were packed like cord wood onto Spanish sailing vessels and cast off for North Africa. Many were simply cast overboard by the crews who quickly returned to Spain to take on another ":shipment". Hundreds of thousands perished. Jewish literature, contemporary diaries in Spanish and Hebrew all tell the same story of cruelty, hardship, murder, and theft. It was not a splendid period in Spanish history. By 1588, yes the Armada and the wars in the Nederlands, under the Hapsburg dynasty ruling Spain brought the country to the brink of bankruptcy. Don Quixote was first published 1505 and reflects another side of Spanish life after the Expulsion. The Jews never forgave the Spanish, Jewish merchants in Amsterdam financed English and Dutch buccaneers who attacked the Spanish Gold/Silver fleets from the New World. Jewish mysticism is a direct result of the expulsion, the Book of Splendor and the real Zohar not the Hollywood/Madonna version of today, mysticism which deals with the restoration of the world and universe to holiness and rightful order, something they did not experience in their lives.

Official history is written by victors but losers also write one on their own. However, History always leaves traces and nowadays, the age of information, it's easier to find the truth usually at a point between the victors' and the losers' history.

On the other hand, we must keep in mind the different rules and mentalities of different ages before assuming conclusions. At Middle Age the common type of notification was the proclamation by the town crier. The Crown (in this case) sent a letter to bishops, lords, mayors... and they hired the crier to make it public. When the Crown write this letter doesn't worry about the time spent untill it comes to those concerned. It might take a couple of weeks, unfair to our minds but common. Anyway the period was extended.

Don Quixote was first published in 1605 and you cannot take it as a credible picture of the 16th century's Spanish life since it is write as a comedy with a clear sardonic tone. Anyway, the golden age of Spain doesn't mean a high level of life of Spaniards, even today Spain is one of the 15 richest countries in the world, richer than Denmark, Sweden or Norway but life in these countries is far higher than in Spain.

And the idea of Amsterdam merchant jews financing English and Dutch bucaneers to attack Spanish ships as an attempt to take revenge on Spain for the expulsion is just an interpretation. How to be sure that they were acting as angry jews instead of simply merchants interested in the routes, the gold or the power?

 

[ricitosdeplata]

I appreciate the input, Scruffy1. I have my opinions but I am not knowledgeable enough to continue the discussion. "Camino" relates to many aspects of life - spiritual,historical, religious, the natural world etc. I'm a novice in"Camino" but I hope this experience will open my eyes to all kinds of unexpected knowledge, feelings, discoveries.

 

[DrShani]

Pilgrimage was a Jewish tradition in Biblical times, so no surprise that the opportunity to journey within oneself in the setting of the Camino should appeal to Jews of our time...perhaps particularly so for those (like me) with ancestral roots in Spain. I'm committed to the Camino next spring, and would love to hear Camino experiences of other Jews: did you bump into relics of prior Jewish presence? Places which particularly touched your Jewish essence?

 

[scruffy1]

One last word perhaps, the Golden Age of Spain are actually two Ages, one as mentioned above beginning after the Expulsion-a Christian experience. The Jewish Golden Age was those years of Moslem Rule in which, should the Moslem ruler be in an expansive tolerant mood and for a steep price, Jewish, Christian, and Muslim scholars were able to exchange knowledge and science, medicine and literature. Culture could have been a grand syncretization springing from different beliefs, histories, and sources. There were of course the evil years in which the ruler was fanatic and would not allow any interaction whatsoever, the Christians being considered idol worshippers and the Jews usually tolerated for an even higher price. For Jews, this was a period of great intellectual activity and produced some of our finest thinkers, Maimonides, Nachmanides, and Solomon Ibn Gabirol being the most recognized outside the Jewish world. We are talking about a period from the beginning of the eighth century until the tenth or eleventh. The Expulsion was a catastrophe and despite declarations, the Jews were left with only that which they could carry or place on a boat. Gold and silver prohibited. Our Golden Age precedes and has no part in what the Spanish consider their Golden Age.

 

[MTtoCamino]

The jews where deported with the muslim moores.

As a christian i celebrate this fact.

It was a tight thing they nearly had control of the country.

If it was not for the castilians europe would be a different place.

Why a jew would want to gawk at the man there religion murdered is beyond my under standing.

The camino is a macarbe journey for a jew in my opinion.

That is a very naive statement, no culture is pure from bad deeds. Why throw stones?

 

[waveprof]

The jews where deported with the muslim moores.

As a christian i celebrate this fact.

It was a tight thing they nearly had control of the country.

If it was not for the castilians europe would be a different place.

Why a jew would want to gawk at the man there religion murdered is beyond my under standing.

The camino is a macarbe journey for a jew in my opinion.

OzTrekker,
You are developing a pattern on this forum, and not a good one. I'll say no more because I don't want to get into personal attacks. But I will say this: at first glance I've found several of your posts offensive, but tried to not take it that way, tried to chalk it up to differing personalities and eccentricities and ways of expressing things. But this post really takes the cake, and I'm struggling to make excuses for it.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

Hola a todos.
Me entristece mucho este Post.
Considero que este no es lugar adecuado para tratar este tema.
Se sale fuera de lo que debemos de tratar.

 

[waveprof]

I

I am tired of your over sensitive conceited arrogant self righteous attitude, you just need to ignore others posts that you disagree with rather than throw another one of your online tantrums.

Not everybody thinks like you waveprof, deal with it and stop acting like a 16 year old girl.

Dont get personal with me i will give it straight back to you.

The world is an intricate place.

If you mean attitude I've displayed in other posts, go for it. I may deserve it. No one is perfect and no one expresses themselves perfectly online. I'm certainly not always in the right. No one is. And meanwhile, while most of my debates are intended as pretty light hearted, I have no one to blame but myself if they don't come across that way---if, instead, they come across as self righteous or arrogant. And if they do come across that way, mea culpa.

But if you mean attitude about not thinking your post in this thread appropriate, I feel pretty comfortable on my stance. I'm not trying to get personal, I'm just really sad that anyone embarking on Camino could feel the way you posted in this thread.

As I alluded to before, I've avoided taking our differences overly seriously because 1) I respect differences of opinion 2) it's hard to judge intent on an internet message board 3) Im sure my own posts could anger others. But your post in this thread was something more altogether.

I'll leave it at that. I see no benefit in an ugly back and forth. And I'm truly sorry for the hand I've had in starting it. But it's also hard to see something like your OP in this thread and let it stand completely unchallenged. Our jewish and muslim brothers deserve to feel welcomed on this forum and on this Camino

 

[movinmaggie]

The jews where deported with the muslim moores.

As a christian i celebrate this fact.

It was a tight thing they nearly had control of the country.

If it was not for the castilians europe would be a different place.

Why a jew would want to gawk at the man there religion murdered is beyond my under standing.

The camino is a macarbe journey for a jew in my opinion.

What a shocking statement to see on this usually, open minded forum that is mostly filled with kindness, tolerance and understanding.

 

[jirit]

I am locking this thread since the content has degraded and recent posts violate forum rule 2