John Lennon's 'Imagine' along the Camino way.

[OssieMate]

Hi Forum Members.

I just completed the Camino from Roncevalles to Santiago today. Along the way I noticed that a pilgrim had written the lyrics ( a line at a time) of John Lennon's song 'Imagine', on the side of the green waste bins. I thought I would photograph these bins but, unfortunately, I left this too late and managed the last two lines (2 bins only) of Lennon's composition.

I would like to put together the entire sequence of the song on those bins, so if anyone out there has photographed the bins, could I get a copy so I can prepare a photographic record for distribution to anyone interested in having It. Maybe the person who wrote the lyrics could get in contact with me and if they have photographed their handy work could they share it?

Can anyone help?

Regards

Ralph

 

[SYates]

Ehm, sorry to be horribly German, John Lennons song and lyrics is still under copyright, so any reproduction would be a copyright infringement, SY

 

[linda piso]

I don't think it would be infringement if you acknowledge The words as John Lennon's.

 

[VNwalking]

Hmmm, SY. I'm not a lawyer, but isn't it the person who wrote the words on those trash cans along the Camino the one who's violating copyright? If I were to collect photos of that, I'd simply be recording the scenery. Which no-one can copyright...except maybe God . (And given the song's message I can't imagine he'd mind...but watch out for those bolts of retributory lightning, Ralph.)
[And sorry, no photos...but like you I did enjoy them.]

 

[Bernard duffy]

Grafitti,nuff said.

 

[John Finn]

Not to mention the fact that Lennon's song decrying religion and espousing atheism is a little inappropriate for an ancient pilgrimage route

 

[Pattii]

Hmmm, SY. I'm not a lawyer, but isn't it the person who wrote the words on those trash cans along the Camino the one who's violating copyright? If I were to collect photos of that, I'd simply be recording the scenery. Which no-one can copyright...except maybe God . (And given the song's message I can't imagine he'd mind...but watch out for those bolts of retributory lightning, Ralph.)
[And sorry, no photos...but like you I did enjoy them.]

No copyright laws broken as long as it is for yourself and distribution to friends. No sales- no worries. At least in Canada and the USA. The infringement would be if you decided to sell it and if you did not acknowledge who wrote the music and lyrics and that it was for personal use. Even if you decided to sell it there would be no copyright infringement if you sent your royalties to where they belong. But honestly I don't think that is even an issue. This is what I know of copyright laws from being a musician in Canada. You can check them yourself if you feel so inclined.
I would love for you to post a copy here!

 

[SYates]

I don't think it would be infringement if you acknowledge The words as John Lennon's.

I really don't want to start a huge discussion here, but acknowledging the writer of the song doesn't make the infringement go away. John Lennon might have had nothing against it, but what about the people who inherited his estate? Also the OP wrote:

... so I can prepare a photographic record for distribution to anyone interested in having It.

That is the bit where I see the problem with. SY

 

[OssieMate]

No copyright laws broken as long as it is for yourself and distribution to friends. No sales- no worries. At least in Canada and the USA. The infringement would be if you decided to sell it and if you did not acknowledge who wrote the music and lyrics and that it was for personal use. Even if you decided to sell it there would be no copyright infringement if you sent your royalties to where they belong. But honestly I don't think that is even an issue. This is what I know of copyright laws from being a musician in Canada. You can check them yourself if you feel so inclined.
I would love for you to post a copy here!

Hi Patti,

Thank for your reply.

The photos are for my personal travel diary of my recent Camino and not intended for commercial use or sale.

My forum entry was not intended to breach any copyright laws but just to record what I saw along 'The Way'. I was hoping that someone might have photographed more of it than I did!

Kind regards

Ralph

 

[OssieMate]

Hmmm, SY. I'm not a lawyer, but isn't it the person who wrote the words on those trash cans along the Camino the one who's violating copyright? If I were to collect photos of that, I'd simply be recording the scenery. Which no-one can copyright...except maybe God . (And given the song's message I can't imagine he'd mind...but watch out for those bolts of retributory lightning, Ralph.)
[And sorry, no photos...but like you I did enjoy them.]

Hi Viranani.

Beautifully written response.

Those words just keep going on in my head all along the camino. I did enjoy the lyrics immensely. Shame this is getting out of hand! I just wanted a photographic memory in my travel diary of this wonderful walk over the 33 days it took to completed.

Kind regards


Ralph

 

[tortuga bob]

Not to mention the fact that Lennon's song decrying religion and espousing atheism is a little inappropriate for an ancient pilgrimage route

Religion and believing or not believing in a Creator are two different things. Also if the Lennon lyrics are noted as such then it is not a copyright violation. Now if I try to profit from the words of John Lennon then that's different. If I sing Lennon's songs for money or publish his music for profit then I have violated the copyright laws. As for the guy writing them on trash bins I doubt if John Lennon or ASCAP cares.

 

[KatefromOz]

just imagine living life in peace woo hoo!!!!

 

[xin loi]

John Lennon is dead???

 

[naplesdon]

The dream of universal peace, I am not the only one!

 

[cher99840]

John Lennon is dead???

I think he is on tour with Elvis.

 

[naplesdon]

John Lennon is dead???

He's sharing vino tinto with Santiago.

 

[VNwalking]

BTW, Happy Birthday, Don...and Buen Camino when you finally get out there! Til then we'll enjoy your posts.

 

[Mark Lee]

The trash bins are the property of whichever municipality they are located. Doubt if they gave permission to anyone to damage/deface them with graffiti, no matter how artistic or philosophical one might think the graffiti is. Basically whomever did it broke the law.
Nothing says being a considerate guest in someone else's country more than vandalizing public property. I'm sure the Spanish love it.

 

[Pattii]

Hi Patti,

Thank for your reply.

The photos are for my personal travel diary of my recent Camino and not intended for commercial use or sale.

My forum entry was not intended to breach any copyright laws but just to record what I saw along 'The Way'. I was hoping that someone might have photographed more of it than I did!

Kind regards

Ralph

I think its a marvellous idea and it would make a fantastic compilation. I really do hope you find the pics...maybe one of the people soon to leave would do that for you. And please, again...let us see it when you are done...Yay! I love creative minds!!!

Kinder regards!..lol

 

[Pattii]

John Lennon is dead???

Never!...Just on holidays till the next time....

You may say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us, and the world will live as one!

J.Lennon

 

[SYates]

... If I were to collect photos of that, I'd simply be recording the scenery. Which no-one can copyright...except maybe God . ...

Only if the song lines were a minor feature and the landscape the main feature. If the focus is on the lyrics and taking up the most part of the image you would breach copy-right. The right to copy a creation that was created by somebody else. SY

 

[K Malpica]

Hi Forum Members.

I just completed the Camino from Roncevalles to Santiago today. Along the way I noticed that a pilgrim had written the lyrics ( a line at a time) of John Lennon's song 'Imagine', on the side of the green waste bins. I thought I would photograph these bins but, unfortunately, I left this too late and managed the last two lines (2 bins only) of Lennon's composition.

I would like to put together the entire sequence of the song on those bins, so if anyone out there has photographed the bins, could I get a copy so I can prepare a photographic record for distribution to anyone interested in having It. Maybe the person who wrote the lyrics could get in contact with me and if they have photographed their handy work could they share it?

Can anyone help?

Regards

Ralph

I also loved and photographed this! Will try to find them and send to you either on forum or via email, if you prefer?

 

[OssieMate]

Hi K Malpica

I knew there was someone out there who would have taken the photos.

I would be grateful if you could email the photos to me when you can locate them. Let me know when you are ready to send these and I will forward my email address to you.

Many thanks and greetings from Santiago - a great place to end the Camino and the church service was special.

Kind regards

Ralph

 

[CaroleH]

Just listening to Imagine's lyrics . . . it could almost have been written for the camino. Imagining a world with no possessions (well, not many), easy if you try, people from many countries living together, like minded, sharing. I like to think we pilgrims on the Way to Santiago are doing our bit towards world peace, a brotherhood sharing the Way, dreaming dreams.

 

[susanawee]

just imagine living life in peace woo hoo!!!!

Totally agree KatefromOz...

 

[Peregrinopaul]

IMAGINE John Lennon suing someone for photographing his lyrics immortalised on rubbish bins. The tabloids would go to town on that one.

 

[susanawee]

I also loved and photographed this! Will try to find them and send to you either on forum or via email, if you prefer?

Hi.....I wonder if you could also email or share them with me also please. I also photographed one of the bins but not the others. My email is susanawee@gmail.com Thankyou in anticipation.

 

[Pattii]

Religion and believing or not believing in a Creator are two different things. Also if the Lennon lyrics are noted as such then it is not a copyright violation. Now if I try to profit from the words of John Lennon then that's different. If I sing Lennon's songs for money or publish his music for profit then I have violated the copyright laws. As for the guy writing them on trash bins I doubt if John Lennon or ASCAP cares.

Amen... religion is a man made industry. Believing in our Creator does not require us to be religious. Well said.

 

[lookingforward]

Only if the song lines were a minor feature and the landscape the main feature. If the focus is on the lyrics and taking up the most part of the image you would breach copy-right. The right to copy a creation that was created by somebody else. SY

Only if the song lines were a minor feature and the landscape the main feature. If the focus is on the lyrics and taking up the most part of the image you would breach copy-right. The right to copy a creation that was created by somebody else. SY

No infringement in US if you don't make money on it.

 

[Pattii]

The trash bins are the property of whichever municipality they are located. Doubt if they gave permission to anyone to damage/deface them with graffiti, no matter how artistic or philosophical one might think the graffiti is. Basically whomever did it broke the law.
Nothing says being a considerate guest in someone else's country more than vandalizing public property. I'm sure the Spanish love it.

Do you think they even really care? If they did don't you think they would have painted them or something. I am sure if they had painted it on a 3000 year old wall or building or bridge then I could see it. People leave arrows painted everywhere there but the words of the song Imagine bothering someone on a garbage bin??...can't see it. Some things can be considered as art...even graffiti can be art in my opinion. In my City we have walls that are allocated for such art...and lots of garbage bins and fire hydrants and other spaces that are given to the artist to decorate. We even have sidewalks in the summertime with pastel art/graffiti on them during the festivals. I guess it depends on what one thinks of as graffiti. Anyway, I was thinking, 'well at least people are noticing where the garbage bin is'. Perhaps it's helping with LITTER...of which I hear there is plenty of along the camino ...which is also breaking the law and much more inconsiderate that this is imho.

 

[susanawee]

Do you think they even really care? If they did don't you think they would have painted them or something. I am sure if they had painted it on a 3000 year old wall or building or bridge then I could see it. People leave arrows painted everywhere there but the words of the song Imagine bothering someone on a garbage bin??...can't see it. Some things can be considered as art...even graffiti can be art in my opinion. In my City we have walls that are allocated for such art...and lots of garbage bins and fire hydrants and other spaces that are given to the artist to decorate. We even have sidewalks in the summertime with pastel art/graffiti on them during the summer. I guess it depends on what one thinks of as graffiti. Anyway, I was thinking, 'well at least people are noticing where the garbage bin is'. Perhaps it's helping with LITTER...of which I hear there is plenty of along the camino ...which is also breaking the law and much inconsiderate that this is imho.

I feel that I do have to agree here....What Does it matter.?......All these posts about copyright infringement etc are not in the spirit of this Forum. A few lines from a much loved song, painted on rubbish bins - why get so het up about this...?????? Just my opinion.

 

[Mark Lee]

Do you think they even really care? If they did don't you think they would have painted them or something. I am sure if they had painted it on a 3000 year old wall or building or bridge then I could see it. People leave arrows painted everywhere there but the words of the song Imagine bothering someone on a garbage bin??...can't see it. Some things can be considered as art...even graffiti can be art in my opinion. In my City we have walls that are allocated for such art...and lots of garbage bins and fire hydrants and other spaces that are given to the artist to decorate. We even have sidewalks in the summertime with pastel art/graffiti on them during the summer. I guess it depends on what one thinks of as graffiti. Anyway, I was thinking, 'well at least people are noticing where the garbage bin is'. Perhaps it's helping with LITTER...of which I hear there is plenty of along the camino ...which is also breaking the law and much inconsiderate that this is imho.

I'm assuming the "they" you are referring to is the municipality that owns the garbage bins. I have no idea if they are concerned about the graffiti and I'm sure there is no way that you would know either. I have no idea if the municipality has painted over the graffiti or not. They probably haven't but that doesn't excuse the actions of whomever did it. Don't know if spray painting in English the lyrics of a John Lennon song will motivate people to throw more trash in a bin (I wonder what he would have thought about his lyrics being relegated to the sides of garbage bins?).
I did see a lot of defacing of Camino markers on the route, especially the last 100 kms. Looks trashy. I even saw where a couple of the metal pilgrim cutouts on the Alto del Perdon had graffiti spray marks on them. Nothing artistic looking there. Just looked like an idiot with a can of spray paint decided to deface them. And there were numerous instances of yellow arrows spray-painted on fences and such along the way.
Of course art is in the eye of the beholder, and I suppose to some graffiti is art, but I just don't think it's something that someone who is a guest in another country should do. It puts a bad name to others walking the Camino.

How lovely. The pilgrim cutouts having been "tagged" by a graffiti "artist".......

 

[susanawee]

I'm assuming the "they" you are referring to is the municipality that owns the garbage bins. I have no idea if t
Just a question here Mark Lee.....how do you, or for that fact, how do any of us on this forum know WHO painted the lyrics on the bins.....How do any of us know if it were Visitors or Guests to Spain who painted the slogans or any of the Graffiti seen along the Camino or, was it the Local Spanish Lads who did it.....???
Sorry to be argumentative here, but this simple request by the original poster of the question, has begun to blow out of all proportion.

 

[wayfarer]

Totally agree Susan, the OP asked a simple question which was answered, almost everything else was just fluff arguing about copyright and graffiti.

 

[Pattii]

I'm assuming the "they" you are referring to is the municipality that owns the garbage bins. I have no idea if they are concerned about the graffiti and I'm sure there is no way that you would know either. I have no idea if the municipality has painted over the graffiti or not. They probably haven't but that doesn't excuse the actions of whomever did it. Don't know if spray painting in English the lyrics of a John Lennon song will motivate people to throw more trash in a bin (I wonder what he would have thought about his lyrics being relegated to the sides of garbage bins?).
I did see a lot of defacing of Camino markers on the route, especially the last 100 kms. Looks trashy. I even saw where a couple of the metal pilgrim cutouts on the Alto del Perdon had graffiti spray marks on them. Nothing artistic looking there. Just looked like an idiot with a can of spray paint decided to deface them. And there were numerous instances of yellow arrows spray-painted on fences and such along the way.
Of course art is in the eye of the beholder, and I suppose to some graffiti is art, but I just don't think it's something that someone who is a guest in another country should do. It puts a bad name to others walking the Camino.
View attachment 18510

You assume its a guest. And I don't think the amount of thought you give it is going to change it either way. I for one think it would be kind of interesting to see it along the way. To each his own when it comes to art. I am sure that if it was troubling many it would be painted over. I don't think you can Imagine what John Lennon would think...neither can I but if I saw that some of my lyrics were encouraging to someone along the camino ...wouldn't bother me any if mine were there.

 

[Pattii]

Totally agree Susan, the OP asked a simple question which was answered, almost everything else was just fluff arguing about copyright and graffiti.

I agree. Its funny how these threads transform into debates about something that doesn't matter. I still would like to see the compilation ...it intrigues me ...specially now!

 

[susanawee]

I agree. Its funny how these threads transform into debates about something that doesn't matter. I still would like to see the compilation ...it intrigues me ...specially now!

and so would I Patti.....and INMHO, life is just far too short to get embroiled in this sort of, as my Dad used to say, 'unnecessary Argy Bargy'...

 

[Quelpolisson]

I hope the people in this thread are not a representative sample of the kind of people I am going to meet on the camino, otherwise I will be spending a lot of time keeping to myself...

 

[naplesdon]

I hope the people in this thread are not a representative sample of the kind of people I am going to meet on the camino, otherwise I will be spending a lot of time keeping to myself...

This was good core sample of what and who you will be meeting. We are not a solidarity group, many differences in opinions, etc. You'll love your sit downs over an evening meal, hopefully.

 

[naplesdon]

Now that I think about it, you are right, it is extremely fitting, a multimillionaire asking pilgrim-hikers in their latest outdoor outfits and hi-tech gear, with a long-distance airplane ticket in their pockets - to imagine no possessions. It's easy to try for a short time. Ever asked the low-paid and unemployed of Spain how they see this?

Sorry if I sound a bit less peaceful and dreamy - maybe it's because I spoke to a Spanish colleague the day before yesterday and she mentioned that local people are annoyed by the foreigners on The Way who steal fruit and try to pretend that they are poor. I know that they are in a minority but they are obviously there.

While I agree with your premise, I think your Spanish colleague was talking about a minority of pilgrims who walk the Way and I don't think the majority of the local people are annoyed with foreigners because they have a certain dependence on the tourism dollars it creates. Aren't the vast majority of pilgrims from Spain?

 

[Mark Lee]

I hope the people in this thread are not a representative sample of the kind of people I am going to meet on the camino, otherwise I will be spending a lot of time keeping to myself...

Not sure what "kind of people" you were expecting to be walking the Camino, but like anything else it's a microcosm of society. Inevitably despite the common thread of the Camino, not everyone thinks alike. Not everyone gets along. On both Caminos I saw pilgrims acting rude, self-centered. Even saw a couple of instances when I thought a couple of male pilgrims were going to get to throwing down on each other. Drunk pilgrims showing up to albergue after curfew, banging on the door wanting to be let in, but all the pilgrims inside too scared to go open the door, and the list goes on.
I certainly wouldn't let a tiny, short web-based discussion on the pros and cons of graffiti in northern Spain put you off from an enjoyable Camino experience, let alone cause you to avoid contact with fellow pilgrims.
cheers

 

[naplesdon]

I can assure you that am most certainly not representative and I apologise if I have caused any offense. As I said, after crossing France from the North-East to the South-West, I have some difficulties in adapting to the very different world of the Camino Frances.

No offense taken and yes a hike across France and doing the Camino is like comparing apples and eggs. Mark Lee and I recently shared thoughts about "The Way" and "Wild." Hopefully for you it is off peak season.

 

[wayfarer]

I hope the people in this thread are not a representative sample of the kind of people I am going to meet on the Camino, otherwise I will be spending a lot of time keeping to myself...

The people in this thread and on this forum are indeed representative of the people you will meet anywhere you go in your travels, we all have our own opinions on issues but like any family we disagree from time to time. 99.99% of the members here are informed, informative and very helpful on anything you need to know about walking your Camino, I wish all the forums I have been involved with over the years were as friendly as this one.

 

[Swinslow]

Hi Forum Members.

I just completed the Camino from Roncevalles to Santiago today. Along the way I noticed that a pilgrim had written the lyrics ( a line at a time) of John Lennon's song 'Imagine', on the side of the green waste bins. I thought I would photograph these bins but, unfortunately, I left this too late and managed the last two lines (2 bins only) of Lennon's composition.

I would like to put together the entire sequence of the song on those bins, so if anyone out there has photographed the bins, could I get a copy so I can prepare a photographic record for distribution to anyone interested in having It. Maybe the person who wrote the lyrics could get in contact with me and if they have photographed their handy work could they share it?

Can anyone help?

Regards

Ralph

I do have 2 or 3 photos from the beginning of those bins and would love to have the whole series as well if you will email me at this address I will send them to you that way swinslow09@ gmail.com

 

[naplesdon]

Our exchange has been more tongue and cheek than substance. We walked together on and off last year and shared lots of war stories, a great group of pilgrim friend and I hope you get to do the same. Buen Camino!
I think I'm at 2000k and counting at my spry age of 69.

 

[Pattii]

There are many very deep discussions in this forum. We all represent a well rounded group of "brothers and sisters" who sometimes debate, sometimes pull together in crisis when someone has been lost or hurt, sometimes we talk about religion and the "mantra" of the way, sometimes about how to poop along the Camino, and sometimes we just talk about skirts and shoes or to take a tent or not or even which albergues and pubs are clean. We even talk about bears and bed bugs. The thing is, this is an open forum for us to get to know one another and exchange information, to laugh and to cry, and glean as much information from each other as humanly possible. We are far from perfect but I have yet to know one single pilgrim in this forum who has not had a chance to express their views, for good or bad, or has gone away without help or encouragement when they needed some. Please take some time to get to know us as people before you come to the conclusions that our fun thread about Lennon and Imagine is at the core of who we are as people.
Welcome to the well rounded pilgrim population of this forum
Buen Camino

 

[Quelpolisson]

I'm sorry about the tone of my previous message
It was just a strange introduction to the forum and the camino to see people quarrelling about the copyright of a John Lennon song.
Obviously the notion that posting a picture of a rubbish bin with lyrics on it could have legal consequences is completely absurd.
One of the reasons I would like to do the camino is to get away from these trivialities of everyday life.

 

[susanawee]

Totally agree Pattie, and add - Take time to get to know us before you judge us too harshly all on the basis of one particular thread

 

[Pattii]

I'm sorry about the tone of my previous message
It was just a strange introduction to the forum and the camino to see people quarrelling about the copyright of a John Lennon song.
Obviously the notion that posting a picture of a rubbish bin with lyrics on it could have legal consequences is completely absurd.
One of the reasons I would like to do the camino is to get away from these trivialities of everyday life.

You will find life is made up of a series of trivialities strung together with the occasional crisis and seasoned with moments that make us say ahhh. The meaning of life is in the moment. There is not other moment but the one we are in; the past and the future don't exist. Sometimes it's the trivial things that give us insight to the ahhh moments and help us laugh our way out of the crisis. Honestly there is no way to get away from our lives. They make us who we are, good and bad and everything in between. There is a really good book (that I listened to on audio cause it was soooo deep) called "The Power of Now". It taught me that waiting for perfect moments robs us of the moment we are in. There is something to be learned in every moment we live and nothing we do is trivial. Each moment takes us to the next and the moments that have gone or waiting for those that have not come yet are wasting the moment we are in. The point I am making is that each step we take is important...even the seemingly trivial ones...not just the steps we make along the "Camino" path. All paths lead to our Camino...all steps lead to our Camino. The Camino begins right now, at least for me.
I am a believer in God...strong faith. I am told that every one of my steps is ordered of God. I believe that. What can I take from this moment? What can I learn in this moment? The idea of living in the moment is far from trivial for me.

Maybe what we are learning here in this thread is to debate kindly or maybe there is some deeper spiritual lesson, and maybe it's just about a song. I don't know. There are so many moments to live and I know that if I live each one waiting for the perfect serene moment I may not have remembered this one I am in.

You say you are wanting to discuss something deeper...or have a deeper meaning than a thread talking about song lyrics on garbage bins. I think John Lennon was trying to say that when he penned the words...
"Imagine all the people living for today...Imagine all the people living life in peace...Imagine all the people sharing all the world... and the world will be as one."

This may seem like a mundane and maybe even silly thread to you but I think those words are powerful...regardless of who John Lennon was or what kind of money he made. Lots of rich people in the world and yet very few of them have had the ability to put those words so eloquently. I think that would be a fantastic Camino Mantra, personally speaking.

Just my thoughts.

 

[KatefromOz]

Keep writing "just your thoughts" please. enjoying your discourse..
In Peace
k.

 

[Shades of Narnia]

Hi Forum Members.

I just completed the Camino from Roncevalles to Santiago today. Along the way I noticed that a pilgrim had written the lyrics ( a line at a time) of John Lennon's song 'Imagine', on the side of the green waste bins. I thought I would photograph these bins but, unfortunately, I left this too late and managed the last two lines (2 bins only) of Lennon's composition.

I would like to put together the entire sequence of the song on those bins, so if anyone out there has photographed the bins, could I get a copy so I can prepare a photographic record for distribution to anyone interested in having It. Maybe the person who wrote the lyrics could get in contact with me and if they have photographed their handy work could they share it?

Can anyone help?

Regards

Ralph

And I'd like a copy too. It seemed so appropriate. fondly, sandi shadesofnarnia@hotmail.com

 

[freespirit]

It seems some people are getting uptight,and making a fuss over a few words put on a few Bins along the Way, they are nice words with true meaning, and I am sure if John was still alive, or is looking down from the big musical studio in the sky,he would say to those who seem to be making a fuss, chill out,,,and instead, Give Peace a Chance,,,there are a lot more important things to worry over in this big wide World.

 

[freespirit]

You will find life is made up of a series of trivialities strung together with the occasional crisis and seasoned with moments that make us say ahhh. The meaning of life is in the moment. There is not other moment but the one we are in; the past and the future don't exist. Sometimes it's the trivial things that give us insight to the ahhh moments and help us laugh our way out of the crisis. Honestly there is no way to get away from our lives. They make us who we are, good and bad and everything in between. There is a really good book (that I listened to on audio cause it was soooo deep) called "The Power of Now". It taught me that waiting for perfect moments robs us of the moment we are in. There is something to be learned in every moment we live and nothing we do is trivial. Each moment takes us to the next and the moments that have gone or waiting for those that have not come yet are wasting the moment we are in. The point I am making is that each step we take is important...even the seemingly trivial ones...not just the steps we make along the "Camino" path. All paths lead to our Camino...all steps lead to our Camino. The Camino begins right now, at least for me.
I am a believer in God...strong faith. I am told that every one of my steps is ordered of God. I believe that. What can I take from this moment? What can I learn in this moment? The idea of living in the moment is far from trivial for me.

Maybe what we are learning here in this thread is to debate kindly or maybe there is some deeper spiritual lesson, and maybe it's just about a song. I don't know. There are so many moments to live and I know that if I live each one waiting for the perfect serene moment I may not have remembered this one I am in.

You say you are wanting to discuss something deeper...or have a deeper meaning than a thread talking about song lyrics on garbage bins. I think John Lennon was trying to say that when he penned the words...
"Imagine all the people living for today...Imagine all the people living life in peace...Imagine all the people sharing all the world... and the world will be as one."

This may seem like a mundane and maybe even silly thread to you but I think those words are powerful...regardless of who John Lennon was or what kind of money he made. Lots of rich people in the world and yet very few of them have had the ability to put those words so eloquently. I think that would be a fantastic Camino Mantra, personally speaking.

Just my thoughts.

Hi Pattii, nice messages you have put on the forum,if you are thinking about doing the Camino ,go for it SAP,its a life changing trip,I am going back a second time in July and will be looking out for the so called Bins,,.Edmonton,London,

 

[Mark Lee]

I do hope that OssieMate has received enough photos to complete Lennon's lyrics.

I just wanted to clarify that, yes, my Spanish colleague did speak about a minority, and she did not want to accuse foreign visitors on the Camino as such. The reason she made this observation was that she was concerned that we would or had encountered locals who had shown their dislike and she tried to explain why. In fact, we did not have many interactions with Spanish people, apart from taxi drivers, staff in restaurants and accommodation, shops catering for us, and locals showing us the way.

I actually don't know whether the vast majority of pilgrims and hikers are from Spain. Perhaps from Sarria onwards? Between SJPdP/Roncesvalles and Pamplona, it seemed that the vast majority was not Spanish.

Although I cannot say with 100% without a doubt that the wannabe utopian who re-decorated Spanish garbage bins with lyrics was not from Spain, I think based on the fact the words were scrawled in English and the large number of pilgrims from English speaking countries, it would be a fair guess to say he/she ain't a local.
I think it's natural that in any place with a large number of foreign visitors every year you will have some measure of locals who get tired of them despite the money they bring to the economy. Let's face it, it would lose its novelty fast. All the more reason to behave and do the right thing when a guest in a foreign country.
And yes, I did see more local Spanish walking the Camino from Sarria onwards.
Again, to anyone out there reading this who is contemplating walking the Camino, please don't scrawl graffiti along the way. As they say, leave only footprints (and money of course ).
cheers

 

[naplesdon]

Although I cannot say with 100% without a doubt that the wannabe utopian who re-decorated Spanish garbage bins with lyrics was not from Spain, I think based on the fact the words were scrawled in English and the large number of pilgrims from English speaking countries, it would be a fair guess to say he/she ain't a local.
I think it's natural that in any place with a large number of foreign visitors every year you will have some measure of locals who get tired of them despite the money they bring to the economy. Let's face it, it would lose its novelty fast. All the more reason to behave and do the right thing when a guest in a foreign country.
And yes, I did see more local Spanish walking the Camino from Sarria onwards.
Again, to anyone out there reading this who is contemplating walking the Camino, please don't scrawl graffiti along the way. As they say, leave only footprints (and money of course ).
cheers

Mark, I remember a thread last year about this exact subject that was totally negative regarding the graffiti on these trash cans and questioning the "artist's" motives. How quickly public opinion can change in one year. You are right the tagging is totally obnoxious and who know what nation is the major violator. Leave only footprints, absolutely!

 

[SYates]

Just curious, as I see this for the second time now: "Camino francis" - which language is this? Galician?

A language called typo ;-) SY

 

[SarahS]

Hi Forum Members.

I just completed the Camino from Roncevalles to Santiago today. Along the way I noticed that a pilgrim had written the lyrics ( a line at a time) of John Lennon's song 'Imagine', on the side of the green waste bins. I thought I would photograph these bins but, unfortunately, I left this too late and managed the last two lines (2 bins only) of Lennon's composition.

I would like to put together the entire sequence of the song on those bins, so if anyone out there has photographed the bins, could I get a copy so I can prepare a photographic record for distribution to anyone interested in having It. Maybe the person who wrote the lyrics could get in contact with me and if they have photographed their handy work could they share it?

Can anyone help?

Regards

Ralph

Hi Ralph
Me too! As a huge Lennon fan I couldn't resists taking a couple of pictures of the lyrics. However, I fear that I also just got the last two lines. But anyway, I've attached them in case you'd like to use them. By the way, I sent them to my 10 year old son at home when I was on the Camino as I was really missing him! I tried to send both my children little messages in pictures as I went - helped me feel connected to them (first time I'd left them so a big deal for me)
Best of luck with your photo project - hope you get the complete set.
Sarah

 

[Coleen Clark]

Not sure what "kind of people" you were expecting to be walking the Camino, but like anything else it's a microcosm of society. Inevitably despite the common thread of the Camino, not everyone thinks alike. Not everyone gets along. On both Caminos I saw pilgrims acting rude, self-centered. Even saw a couple of instances when I thought a couple of male pilgrims were going to get to throwing down on each other. Drunk pilgrims showing up to albergue after curfew, banging on the door wanting to be let in, but all the pilgrims inside too scared to go open the door, and the list goes on.
I certainly wouldn't let a tiny, short web-based discussion on the pros and cons of graffiti in northern Spain put you off from an enjoyable Camino experience, let alone cause you to avoid contact with fellow pilgrims.
cheers

Oh My Goodness! You are describing my childhood in Boston! We lived in an apartment over a bar where "Everybody Knows Your Name"....lots of throw downs, drunk patrons, and door banging. Some people are different when they are in a foreign environment, acting out because Nobody Knows Their Name, but that happens in Vegas too, baby. To some people, Graffiti is Art, arguments are the best dessert to a good dinner, and the one piece of fruit you steal won't make a difference to the orchard owner. They are not the only kind of people you will meet, and you will never agree with or even understand half of the people you meet. But that's the beauty of it! It's jarring, mind opening, shocking, lovely, peaceful, and I can't wait to meet the oddest ones of the Pack!
Cheers back atcha!

 

[Pattii]

Hi Pattii, nice messages you have put on the forum,if you are thinking about doing the Camino ,go for it SAP,its a life changing trip,I am going back a second time in July and will be looking out for the so called Bins,,.Edmonton,London,

Thanks! I'm gonna get there hopefully next year...NEEED to get there. And I really hope they have not painted over the garbage bins...lol

 

[Pattii]

Graffiti as art:



The last picture is from our graffiti/wall art contest that Edmonton sponsors every year.

Very few of these pieces were commisioned and many never get seen as they are on the back walls of streets most of us would never walk down.

I feel a bit lumped in with the drunken trouble makers in the bar under your apartment and I don't even go to bars...lol

 

[VNwalking]

It's such a mix. I'm generally no fan of graffiti--and certainly disliked some of what I saw on the Camino (defaced Camino markers being a particualar pet peeve)...but I have to say I sometimes liked it, because of the context and/or because it lifted the heart. Those rubbish bins were one example. Here's another:

It cheered me up immensely, and I was grateful for the good wishes of whomever did it. Lawful or not.
[Edit--In this case, the message seemed more important than the medium. Same with the lyrics on the rubbish bins...which basically are saying "Can't we all lighten up around our fixed opinions, accept differences, and get along?"....]

 

[Pattii]

It's such a mix. I'm generally no fan of graffiti--and certainly disliked some of what I saw on the Camino (defaced Camino markers being a particualar pet peeve)...but I have to say I sometimes liked it, because of the context and/or because it lifted the heart. Those rubbish bins were one example. Here's another:
View attachment 18583
It cheered me up immensely, and I was grateful for the good wishes of whomever did it. Lawful or not.

LOVE it! thanks for sharing that!

 

[wayfarer]

Graçias is just fine.

 

[Quelpolisson]

This is my camino song

Just thought I would I share

 

[GunnarW]

For you info: at the 11th of December 2050 at 11:07 PM, "Imagine" written by "John Lennon" will no longer have copyrights.

 

[VNwalking]

Oh, good. Then we can stop arguing about trash cans and graffiti!
[Edit...maybe...]

 

[GunnarW]

To come back: the 11th December 2050 is the only date I know by heart.
As I'm absolutely not happy with the copyright time frame of 70 years, one day I was searching for a date when a certain popular song would become royalty free.
There is a chance I could survive the 11th of December 2050.
Maybe I should be able to install something like 23 loudspeakers (23 sentences) on all the bins producing Imagine by John Lennon on the 12th of December 2050.
Maybe the artist of putting the sentences on the bins would make clear that we are almost half way (1980 + 35 = 2015)
In fact, where are those bins situated?

 

[Coleen Clark]

For you info: at the 11th of December 2050 at 11:07 PM, "Imagine" written by "John Lennon" will no longer have copyrights.

Oh great! I will be 94, and on my 25th Camino. It will be quite a celebration!

 

[OssieMate]

And I'd like a copy too. It seemed so appropriate. fondly, sandi shadesofnarnia@hotmail.com

Hi Shades of Narnia,

now back home in Australia and sorry for the delayed response.

I have not been able to source the entire sequence of photos, so I will see if anyone who is about to travel on the Camino can take photos of the bins along The Way and send them to me.

If I manage to get all photos, I will post these on the forum for those interested in having a copy.

Attached are the 2 photos I took at the end approaching Santiago, I have a long way to go to obtain the rest.

Kind regards


Ralph

 

[OssieMate]

It's such a mix. I'm generally no fan of graffiti--and certainly disliked some of what I saw on the Camino (defaced Camino markers being a particualar pet peeve)...but I have to say I sometimes liked it, because of the context and/or because it lifted the heart. Those rubbish bins were one example. Here's another:
View attachment 18583
It cheered me up immensely, and I was grateful for the good wishes of whomever did it. Lawful or not.
[Edit--In this case, the message seemed more important than the medium. Same with the lyrics on the rubbish bins...which basically are saying "Can't we all lighten up around our fixed opinions, accept differences, and get along?"....]

It's such a mix. I'm generally no fan of graffiti--and certainly disliked some of what I saw on the Camino (defaced Camino markers being a particualar pet peeve)...but I have to say I sometimes liked it, because of the context and/or because it lifted the heart. Those rubbish bins were one example. Here's another:
View attachment 18583
It cheered me up immensely, and I was grateful for the good wishes of whomever did it. Lawful or not.
[Edit--In this case, the message seemed more important than the medium. Same with the lyrics on the rubbish bins...which basically are saying "Can't we all lighten up around our fixed opinions, accept differences, and get along?"....]

Hi Viranani,

I agree, some of the graffiti I saw along The Way also cheered me up and I have attached a few photos of those that caught my eye. I will use these in my travel diary.

I also photographed the one on the wall of the underpass from which you took your photo, it is attached to this blog including other photos,

kind regards,

Ralph

 

[OssieMate]

I also loved and photographed this! Will try to find them and send to you either on forum or via email, if you prefer?

Hi K Malpica,

have you had any success with finding the photos? If so, my email address is:

ossiemate@live.com.au

thanks

Ralph

 

[waveprof]

Not to mention the fact that Lennon's song decrying religion and espousing atheism is a little inappropriate for an ancient pilgrimage route

Depends on how one defines the Camino. Also depends on how one interprets/understands the song.

It isn't what would go through my head on the Camino, but it certainly isn't my place to tell someone else it is out of place. Over the centuries people have walked the Camino for far more nefarious reasons than those espoused in the song.

 

[waveprof]

Ehm, sorry to be horribly German, John Lennons song and lyrics is still under copyright, so any reproduction would be a copyright infringement, SY

I'm not defending graffiti (especially along the camino where there is far too much of it), but I think graffiti isn't much more annoying than copyright law. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about protecting the rights of the original artist, but 99 times out of 100 that isn't what copyright law does.

And in most nations, clear parody is fair play (and thank goodness).

 

[waveprof]

My two favorite Camino graffiti photos:

So much can be read from this. It originally read "You are Not in Spain", making an argument for nationalism for Euskal Herria. Then it had been changed to "You are Not Only in Spain" making an argument for Euskal Herria as a distinct culture within Spain. Then it had been changed to "You are not in The Old Spain", a joke that questions authenticity (and also authenticity of the Camino). Finally, someone changed it to "You are in Spain", a Spanish nationalist statement arguing for a cohesive view of Spanish identity. So many layers in one simple saying. And all written in English (hence clearly written with a peregrino audience in mind).

The other one:

I like this one because it's fully, it's true, and yet it also questions notions of authenticity (in relation to a "true" pilgrim).

 

[K Malpica]

Hi K Malpica,

have you had any success with finding the photos? If so, my email address is:

ossiemate@live.com.au

thanks

Ralph

I just sent the photos to your email. Enjoy!

 

[OssieMate]

I just sent the photos to your email. Enjoy!

Hi Malpica,

I just looked in my email box and there were no photos.

Could you check that my email address:

ossiemate@live.com.au

was used correctly.

Many thanks


Ralph

 

[slynchy]

Because of the controversy in this thread, I was happy to finally see the lyrics on the sides of bins! I took photos of all I saw, just one verse.

 

[OssieMate]

Because of the controversy in this thread, I was happy to finally see the lyrics on the sides of bins! I took photos of all I saw, just one verse.

Hi slynchy.

Thank you so much for providing the photos. Once I have put together the sequence of lyrics, I will post these on the forum..

Have a great day.

Ralph

 

[VNwalking]

Have fun, Ralph!
(And in the end we will probably wonder what all the kerfuffle was about...)
BTW, A walking buddy, who happened to be a lawyer from the US, was thinking of collecting images of street art along the Camino...you already have a good start! Some of those scallops are pretty impressive.

 

[Trailhawk]

What concerns me though is the practice of placing directional signs on garbage bins with wheels, things which are movable.